Mindscape 117 | Sean B. Carroll on Randomness and the Course of Evolution

Evolution is a messy business, involving as it does selection pressures, mutations, genetic drift, and the effects of random external interventions. So in the end, how much of it is predictable, and how much is in the hands of chance? Today we’re thrilled to have as a guest my evil (but more respectable, by most measures) twin, the biologist Sean B. Carroll. Sean is both a leader of the modern evo-devo revolution, and a wonderful and diverse writer. We talk about the importance of randomness and unpredictability in life, from the evolution of species to the daily routine of every individual.
Sean B. Carroll received a Ph.D. in immunology from Tufts University. He is currently the Andrew and Mary Balo and Nicholas and Susan Simon Endowed Chair of Biology at the University of Maryland, Vice-President for Science Education at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, the Executive Director of HHMI Tangled Bank Studios, and Professor Emeritus of Genetics and Molecular Biology at the University of Wisconsin. His new book, A Series of Fortunate Events: Chance and the Making of the Planet, Life, and You, explores the role of chance in the development of life.
Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.preposterousuniverse.com/...
Patreon: / seanmcarroll
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#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #evolution

[@raymondluxury-yacht1638]

There can never be too many Sean Carrolls

[@3dlabs99]

This universe seem to have a high probability of cool Sean Carrolls

[@evomorales666]

If the multiverse is real, somewhere there's a universe populated entirely by people named Sean Carroll!

[@kelvinpearl1]

My next dog will be named Sean in honor of the amazing existing Seans around the world

[@Backsplash67]

@@evomorales666 ⁷u8n

[@erictko85]

Ron Henn thats intersting. Is that actually a consequence of certain formulations of what a multiverse would be like? It’s intersting in that one, we would have names, but all have the same ones which seems to defeat the purpose, is illogical on some level. Is this necessary in a multiverse?

[@DinoDudeDillon]

Nope. It's just random chance, evolution, and this particular branch of the wave function

[@lairheron9489]

Get all the Sean Carroll scientists together for some kind of coalition of Sean Carolls.

[@7heHorror]

Welcome to the Citadel of Seans. I'm Sean from Earth C-137.

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Lair Heron Sean Coarrollition!

[@readynowforever3676]

Do you think it’s actually more than two ? 😄 Okay, if it’s a chemist in the world name Sean Carroll (& you forgot a *r, not very scientific 😜) we have to get them together.

[@p_square]

Sean M. Carroll and Shawn B. Carroll.... what a combination!

[@seanfitzgerald4207]

Thank you Seans Carroll

[@sinisa5567]

You dont even know what you just said.

[@nuriagiralt617]

Or Sean Carrolls? Seans Carrolls?

[@mirakodus1]

Sean: "But the podcast is not going to be a whole bunch of jokes about us having the same name." My mind: Damn it - I need this!

[@3dlabs99]

They obviously decided it deserves its own dedicated future potcast

[@vampyricon7026]

YES! Thank you, Seans!

[@neskmadran570]

Finally! I bought his books by mistake ( thought it was you), yet I fell in love. I wish to hear more of him.

[@bradypochon5503]

I did the same thing. I purchased "The Serengetti Rules" and thought wow, Sean is also a freaking evolutionary biologist? At this point, I was self-introspecting as lazy. The book ended up a good read.

[@laylabeck7454]

I had it the opposite 😂 I love Sean B Carrolls books and was like wow! He has a podcast too?

[@Stadtpark90]

I liked how they traversed the impact of randomness in a world that is bounded by laws from the molecular level (quantum-flips) to the planet sized level (mass extinction asteroid impact), and also from planet sized timescales to individual timescales (- life and death of species to life and death of individuals/ cancer), to even „moral“ considerations of randomness („moral luck“). I loved how it was all mirrored / reflected in the friendship and dialogue of a philosopher/ existentialist and a biologist... - our minds are exploring (or even „sampling“) not at all randomly the implications of these world moving concepts, trying to make sense of it all, even on a personal level. - Guess I might be willing to read a book or two now, acknowledging that there are inroads into that territory that became lit only in the later part of the last century. What in principle might have been a very vague discussion that philosophers (and religions) could have had about the human condition thousands of years ago, now actually has details to offer that make some aspects literally and principally true, not only in a manner of speaking / symbolical way. P.S.: you already had me at Albert Camus; and also at „the asteroid impact that keeps on giving“... (Also: Secretly I‘m floating away on a You-Tube wave of „catastrophism“ and „lost civilization“ (thanks to Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson) whenever I allow myself to drift away from the more serious stuff presented by Sean Carroll here and whatever Lex Fridman does...). P.P.S.: Where would I go for a Joscha Bach meets Stephen Wolfram episode?

[@terranrepublic7023]

This episode just confirmed that you CAN communicate with yourself in the other multiverse

[@errgo2713]

As a recreational diver, I especially enjoyed that nugget about lungs first evolving in fish to aid buoyancy rather than breathe on land.

[@iruleandyoudont9]

you should interview Denis Villeneuve about Dune

[@cariolast3761]

Early crew reporting in. This sounds like a very interesting episode. Just in time for lunch. Thanks Sean!

[@christianweston2655]

Sean had some great things to say in this conversation.

[@Rogermc]

nice episode. i unfortunately learned i have cancer a few days ago. still in shock, because it's very badly spread to everywhere already..., trying to cope with it, i hope there are treatments, i need some more research done. but yeah, you never know if you are gonna die within a year,..; YOU NEVER KNOW... the cruel reality we have to live with eh? ....

[@stephenbaines8506]

Good luck Roger 👍

[@rohityadavade5528]

Be strong Roger :) Wishing for speedy recovery

[@benwincelberg9684]

All the best!

[@RodrigoOshiro]

the sean carroll clash of titans episode

[@hans-olofsvensson1195]

Two Sean Carrolls! I don't know if this proves supersymmetry or an infinite universe, but it's gotta prove something.

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Hans-Olof Svensson Many Worlds.

[@fyt54321]

*I was wondering when this was going to happen!!* Is this like matter and anti-matter? I've been encountering more than one Sean Carroll for years when searching for non-fiction science books.

[@lower_case_t]

Yeeeeeeesss! My favorite Sean Carrolls!

[@tonydenton6769]

I'm seeing double here, 4 Sean Carrolls

[@user-gj7vp6wk3e]

I'M GOING TO BUY ALL OF SEAN CAROL'S BOOK'S!✌️👍🤙

[@ccole1255]

Sean Caroll VS Sean Caroll Can't miss this one! Go Sean Caroll!

[@edwardlee2794]

It's always fascinating to watch Dr Sean s things. But, as if it is not enough, it's now raised to the power of 2. Let's hope it keeps on multiplying to quench our thirst for fun and knowledge. Thanks for the efforts and keep up with the good work. From Hker worldwide

[@TimLeahy2]

Loved listening to the conversation between these two Irish atheists.

[@nurk_barry]

I’m a fan of BOTH Sean Carroll’s, I love Sean’s books and Sean B has been on some amazing documentaries about geological history and DNA/evolution.

[@wormalism]

Rewind the tape and the exact same thing plays back. Rewind, but make a miniscule change, then practically everything will turn out entirely different.

[@TheEtAdmirer]

I like the way this guy explains things. Maybe that's just a Sean Carroll thing.

[@samantha5357]

Thank you for being an inspiration, Sean and Sean. Will try to get my hands on both of your books. 📖🙏

[@ProfessorBeautiful]

I've read a number of them. I like them both, & Sean B (read 3 of his) deserves wider recognition.

[@daviddeeder]

Since I’ve heard about the book Chance & Necessity by Jacques Monod and digging into quantum mechanics a little bit, Chance / randomness / probability vs determinism - aka "Laplace’s demon" it’s a huge pleasure to come across you both and listen to this clarifying podcast.

[@martinaakervik]

Tanks good timing for this. Nice dialog

[@BrianNeil]

Brilliant! Thank you.

[@mrloop1530]

Sean Bearded Biologist Carroll? What a great conversation that was!

[@TheMemesofDestruction]

#Synchronicity ^.^ Thank you for doing this Professor, been binging you recently!

[@volaireoh883]

Re-binging 😆

[@MrBendybruce]

Another great podcast, thankyou Sean!! (both of you)

[@elgaro]

Great conversation

[@kadourimdou43]

SC meets SC. The multiverse is real.

[@garylewis8068]

Sean vs Sean, great job guys!!

[@EvaTruve]

Inspiring and fun to listen

[@RonnieD1970]

Yes! This is great!

[@shawongupta353]

You both are my icon 🥰

[@therugburnz]

I listened to this podcast a few months ago and enjoyed it. I did miss portions of it because I neglected to pause the cast as I prepared a soup&sandwich snack. I mention this because I wonder if Sean M.C. tells the story about getting uninvited to a science conference because it was more about biology. I heard SMC mention it once in a lecture he was specifically asked to remain.

[@Raydensheraj]

Two brilliant Scientists with the gift of being able to communicate science - " Endless Forms Most Beautiful " is a classic by now. Probably one of the best books in the field since 2000. I own " The Big Picture " and " Something Deeply Hidden " by the other Sean but unfortunately haven't gotten to read those two yet. I did finish " The Particle at the End of the Universe " which I borrowed from the local library. Im still waiting on two things= Sean and Lee Smolin on this podcast... Sean and Alan Guth writing together a second part of Guth's " The Inflationary Universe "... There's a lot of people that still need to be on his podcast= Julian Barbour, David Reich , Joao Magueijo, Ed Yong , Nick Lane , Joseph LeDoux, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Jim-Al Khalili...

[@leaf732]

amazing

[@fuu9575]

Another great one.

[@mikelevitz1266]

I never met anyone named sean carroll who wasn't fascinating. Thank you all.

[@Life_42]

Awesome!

[@rajens1]

59:20 'That's too bad' xD

[@eddieking2976]

My two favorite Carrolls. "It's going to be a good day tater."

[@bobbygautam3950]

@ 59:30 Sean B Carroll missed Sean Carroll’s little joke about it being too bad that we don’t have more efficient enzymes to detoxify alcohol

[@thewiseturtle]

Randomness us the reason. The purpose of reality is to explore all possible patterns of matter and energy. And Pascal's triangle is an excellent way to do that, don't you think?

[@eklim2034]

I randomly chose this video to watch, didn't realise that randomness (not patterns) is the boss of our lives and universe. We live by randomnes (selected mutations) and die by randomness (cancer). Plus our multiverse-selves whose random mutations are linked to the many world quantum fluctuations that caused OUR dna replication mistakes/mutation. Nice thought experiments.

[@MusicMatters_SC]

Does the B. stand for bearded?

[@CoffeeTroll]

Awesome new episode. Thanks Sean and Sean!

[@trabrex7697]

The electromagnetic wave describe by maxwells equation, that is essentially a fractal transform.

[@readynowforever3676]

Sean B. Carroll. And the B stands for biology. Right?

[@trabrex7697]

It is one of the basic convictions of science that phenomena are contingent and not necessary. Natural laws must be discovered empirically by observation, and they cannot be deduced on a basis of pure reason. In other words they might have been other than they are. Granted then that they are contingent: on what are they contingent? Granted their givenness: what System gave them?

[@andro8206]

i love his darwin show where he went to galapagos and all that (cant remember the exact name (-_-)) great content for "normal" people

[@ProfessorBeautiful]

"who put the geeks in charge" "blues orphans"

[@robertglass5678]

So many interesting things discussed. However, I was taken aback by Sean's morality thought experiment involving the punishment for drunk driving. Did he state it precisely? Because it sounded like he was implying that we lose all autonomy when we are drunk. You can be drunk to the point where it inhibits your reaction time and the result is that you are unable to avoid an accident that you should've been able to avoid. But you aren't completely oblivious to what's happening. It's not like every single person who is over the legal limits gets into their car and careens wildly though traffic lights and some randomly hit and kill people and some don't. Drunk driving and running red lights are two different offenses. Running a red light and killing someone is its own moral/judicial issue regardless of your blood alcohol. I must have missed something...

[@parthasarker6121]

Could you please add timestamps to your podcasts, Prof. Carroll?

[@NikkiTrudelle]

That guy evolved to look kinda like a bearded Danny Tanner.

[@AdamTait-hy2qh]

SEANCEPTION

[@HarryNicNicholas]

58:14 i'm glad he's talking this way (sort of) because although the stats show that intelligent life should be abundant, i've always thought that a) we should assume that we are all there is and b) the circumstances that brought about humans has been incredibly convoluted, if a comet strike at the right time, the right amount, made from the right materials hitting the planet at the right angle is just ONE of potentially thousands of factors that resulted in humans, i don't think arrogance about being unique comes into it, i think it might in fact be highly probable that at least in a certain area of the universe we are all that there is. there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere else, given the size of the universe PLUS the cosmos, but it might be a lot rarer than people give credit. anyway, i'm disappointed i'm not riding my hover car on the moon every weekend, as promised when i was a kid, so i think we ought to be getting into space and occupying as much of it as we can - make planet earth a nature reserve.

[@mattblack6736]

When many worlds collide.

[@mirakodus1]

Two Sean Carolls - that's too much knowledge in one place. I don't know if our branch of World's wave function can handle.

[@a.j.orichard6137]

I only know songs from the 60's Cause the infomercials on TV were vids.! Hour later I'm like. What am I watching? Got me again! Great ape watching greater apes

[@charlesalexanderable]

I don't know what it is, but I can understand this Sean Carroll guy way more clearly than Sean Carroll.

[@dylangrahamhusmann3418]

what was the deleted “non Darwinian” conversation on?

[@Pat_Johnson]

Sean Carroll should educate William Lane Craig on evolution as well

[@a.j.orichard6137]

Last min Rogan shout out.. you're too handsome to only do audio.. Sayin Sean

[@dethmunki4909]

Sean B. Carroll? I've seen Into The Spiderverse enough to know what's going on here...

[@andro8206]

mutation is a feature, not a bug every gamer knows what hes talkin bout cmon bro :D

[@smashu2]

random is simply what you don't have the ability to predict there exist crap shooter than can hit the numbers that defy probability.

[@AstroFerko]

Noam Chomsky

[@JustOneAsbesto]

I don't know why, but in that picture of him you used, he just *looks* like he should be dressed as a Catholic priest.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

don't be polite about religion, people who think pixies rule the world need to be ridiculed.

[@drdphd1981]

😲

[@1pedalsteel374]

Why is “you know” such a ubiquitous turn of speech these days? It’s seems to be everywhere and has become as irritating as the once fashionable “uh”.

[@synsynsy]

I like the physics Carroll more but biology and evolution more than physics.

[@qzbnyv]

Shhh you’re not meant to have favourites (-:

[@occultninja4]

Who are you? I'm you but evolved.

[@TheEtAdmirer]

So what I got out of this. It's possible that we can genetically modified the size of our penis. Sweet

[@laurenklemme1632]

there’s no DNA in RBCs, Sean.

[@wmpx34]

What if a third person named Sean Carroll listens to this podcast…will a black hole be created?

[@losboston]

Lewis Carroll Epstein.

[@walterzagieboylo6802]

You guys are great, but you have a very cartoonish concept of God. It would be wise to find out more. God is not what the apostate churches in Europe presented. It is a good thing and will only add to your beliefs and understanding and not discount the great things you have learned. There is, for example, no need to wait for the next world for a reward. Following the commandments of God - like love your enemies - brings power and a heaven on earth, though our understanding and character are also developed (as with the Savior) by challenges and suffering (suffering that is overcome as challenges are by God's power). This life is not the end, but a preparatory state for an eternal existence. You need not believe me. It would be foolish if you did. God will communicate with you directly and without any room for doubt if you humble yourself and seek him. There is that requirement of humility, which may be difficult for some prideful people.

[@walterzagieboylo6802]

EditFast Attacks do not prove your point. Sad.

[@Bebbeth]

Claiming that you are the reason for the existence of the universe and special friend of the creator and ruler of it is... humble ?

[@walterzagieboylo6802]

Bebbeth Just telling what happened. We are all children of God and have the same privilege, if we are not foolish and proud and refuse to ask.

[@Bebbeth]

@@walterzagieboylo6802 I'm guessing christian. Very typical for those to totaly miss the point and instead preach some more of same shit and claims without any evidence at all. You, sir, are NOT humble at all.

[@walterzagieboylo6802]

Bebbeth I’m not preaching. I’m relating. And you are judging, which is humble?