Minimoog Model D vs Sub 37: Bass

[@deadmoonscriptures1556]

They both sound amazing. Subsequent 37 has a rich, deep dark tone and the Minimoog is more bright and lively. I will never sell my Sub, it's my first synth and I love it so much even though I haven't even begun to scratch the surface yet!

[@tuboqueser]

Sub 37 is definitely darker and more modern sounding while the Model D has that amazing old school sound! Love them both.

[@antaniblindaconlasup]

Erod Rod agree

[@corypalmer5495]

All sound is modern sound, it's how you use it. Sound is timeless

[@alexanderscalzo340]

Yeah I play whatever I'm in the mood for

[@xHamish99]

Hey man, would love to see a studio/gear tour, showing all your gear in one video! Thumbs up if you agree!

[@stefpir]

yes show it and give the postal address ... ahaha. Too risky my friend.

[@jaywood5831]

I'm pretty impressed that the 37 holds its own with the minimoog but I'm extremely impressed that after decades of being regarded as the synth that kinda started it all in terms of a somewhat portable and usable synth that regular people could actually use, the minimoog is still so useful to this day and is still the standard of what a good mono synth is. It's clear to see why it's held in such high esteem.

[@frankscassi4960]

Those glittered comments made me lough so much! Great comparison, both great in different ways

[@papertarrasque]

The Sub 37 is a monster. Hard for the Minimoog to compete from a music making standpoint because of all the sound sculpting options the Sub has. Still, they both sound awesome and no one can be blamed for preferring one over the other.

[@TantuBeats]

Damn been waiting for someone to make this video, thanks!

[@lxmusiqe]

lol my research atm

[@TantuBeats]

@@lxmusiqe Hahah

[@JakeAlstad]

Deep & Moody - 2:20 Phat & Funky - 7:00 Sub Bass - 10:30 Dance Bass - 11:30 Getting Dirty - 14:00

[@StarskyCarr]

Fantastic - I've added that to the description. No idea how it's done but its a great idea :)

[@StarskyCarr]

Just figured it out - it automatically adds the link to the position in the description. A much needed addition to KZbin functionality. Thanks for putting me onto it.

[@JakeAlstad]

haha right on dude, cheers

[@monkeyxx]

I was impressed with both instruments. Nice demo.

[@MegaPhalaenopsis]

The both are jewels.

[@dash3dot]

I on the other hand after watching many, many demos still hate the sounds those synths spit. Seriously I wouldn't convince myself to buy one of those things even if those were the last synths on earth. What's the purpose of those 2 synths? No trolling, honest question.

[@theinsectpolitician]

I could answer, but do you own synths already, and do you have any personal faves for context?

[@ivayloivanov3744]

no bro, you gotta chose only one and shit on the other one.

[@ArtyPartyMusic]

Excellent comparison! Minimoog D sounds better for me too. It has much more natural "live" sound.

[@Nonpartisanmusic]

I just love the sub 37!

[@treproductions9522]

both sound so awesome! The second i think one is in the lead, the other proves their greatness right after !

[@ronnieaux5290]

The day has come! I can't wait for this one. Thank you so much

[@StarskyCarr]

Ronnie Perez ;)

[@TonySway]

Both sound amazing and can get the job done!

[@Lolwutdesu9000]

Have to admit, despite the moog having that brighter, more "moogy" sound, the sub 37 does have its own sort of sound as well. A bit more of a blunt oomph to it. I wouldn't complain if I was given either one!

[@paulf9814]

Love these videos, thanks man!

[@chrisstrobel3439]

Just as a consolation my 2 Model D's, both bought several years a part in the 70's, never sounded identical either.

[@videosuperhighway7655]

WOW Makes sense now why when the Voyager came out I demoed one and was underwhelmed and never bought it. But The Model D was a different story and I bought the Reissue and real happy waiting all these years for something better. :)

[@mackmccord3743]

Ha Eye traded my newly purchased voyager XL for mini reissue because it came out right after my return period. Lost about $800 on that trade. But the mini was a sound and a look that Eye dreamed of having before Eye really even know what the mini really did. The wood grain and the shape always got to me.. Eye had to have it lol. Eye somewhat miss the ribbon control and the xy screen and memory. But the sound of my mini and matriarch make up for it! Peace to you and your family 🤘🏽🕶️💜

[@Deeplycloseted435]

Starsky, you’re killing it with these comparisons. Your videos are thoughtful, and well arranged. You clearly are a synth head and understand what we want to see. Comparing basic waveforms is nice, but how often are we using those on a subtractive synthesizer. I love the Voyager. The dual filters and extra features are killer! BUT.....every single time I play it, I want to turn that filter open more than it will allow. Its like I wakt to keep turning it clockwise and it just won’t go. I don’t understand this. Why limit the harmonics allowed? I was surprised to hear that the Sub37 is the same deal. I never fancied the sound of the Sub series much. Thanks for taking the time to do this, and your others.

[@vladimirussachevsky1315]

I own a Sub 37 and love it. But ultimately the model D sounds better. The model d has more complex and colorful timbers. I will buy one someday in the next few years I hope. But my modular has taken over.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

same here!

[@corypalmer5495]

I agree, the model D sounds thicker, warmer and overall better.

[@IconicPhotonic]

Thanks, great video! Very similar, same "family" as you say, although yes, plenty of differences. I just picked up a Sub 37 and my first synth last week. Great functionality, but I do wish it could do the brighter leads as well. I like that it is dark and moody, but it seems to go from that to muddy very quickly... may be just my limited experience with hardware synths though.

[@kierenmoore3236]

It is definitely ‘geared’/calibrated that way …

[@murderousmaths]

Fascinating video - thanks for taking the trouble to explain what you're doing! The Sub 37 does really well ... but nothing bites quite like the Model D.

[@videosuperhighway7655]

I am playing the model D with no effects, totally dry. Sounds amazing.

[@user-yi6jk2yp6m]

please moog engineers please produce a poly at least 4 voice

[@johndavidpeer3107]

Haha...I get a kick out of the fact that the Model D goes flat, as evidenced at 6:42. I must be the odd guy out, because I prefer the sound of the Sub 37...and I prefer that mine has a running warranty for $65 per year...love the Minimoog, don't love the crazy price and lack of patch storage - been there, done that. (Yeah, I know: 'Get orf my lawn!") BOTH needs some reverb and delay...and I DO agree about the stiff springs on the Sub 37. I was hoping they would "exercise" themselves and loosen up, the way, for example, mag springs do.

[@synthartist69]

Moog tells me that the Model D cannot have patch storage or else it would not sound the same, I am guessing it would sound like a Voyager. Not sure why, my Jupiter 8 has patch storage and it sounds incredible.

[@mattkaz9604]

It's not always a huge difference, but i can hear why people are obsessed with the model D's sound - its more lively and sharp.

[@BeansMaskSheen]

the model D is the obvious winner. the tonal quality is much warmer and more musical sounding to me. also the Model D has an extra octave of keys.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

agree but it is also twice as expensive as the Sub 37!

[@synthartist69]

Yes, that extra octave means the world to me... waiting for Moog to produce a SUB44.. :)

[@supafly424]

I bought a subsequent yesterday and today I watch this. The model D sound crispier, the sub a little blurred. To fight depression I tried some filters to give the sub37 more of the D-spice. Ended up with sheps parallel particles where you can give it more bite.

[@jesuslovestoastyaya]

I actually prefer the darker sound of the Sub 37. Both sound incredible though, life goal to own one or both :D

[@bruhology6437]

Same

[@moognificat]

Great comparison, mate. Well done!

[@KeithTrigwell]

Had both, sold the 37 to get the Model D. In truth both exceptional synths but VERY different. Model D is a luxury, incredible sound. sub 37 vastly more flexible.

[@Paul-ur5kc]

Excellent work! Thank you!

[@swiftmello123]

Love them both! For that nasty base line I'll take the 37 for the smooth stuff defiantly voy. Easy.

[@wafflestoast5228]

The model D just bites you raw in the eardrum but it hertz so good :)

[@mackmccord3743]

Underated comment🤘🏽🕶️💜

[@axelnussbaumer]

It really depends on the patch. In certain instances i like the S37 in others the D. They both seem to serve a purpose. Would be interesting to also here a little phatty with these.

[@axelnussbaumer]

@Luke That makes sense

[@michaeltechbytes]

So well done like all of your demos. I noticed you had your Sub37 Filter Envelope set to Multi Trigger and Reset at 6:45, would make a big difference in the sound. Sounded so bad ass it made me play my Sub37 after.

[@StarskyCarr]

+Michael N haha I think I had them turned on to make up for dodgy playing and overlapping notes!! Thanks for the comment, I'm glad your enjoying them.

[@subhadeepdas3944]

In sub37 its almost like added chorus after designing sound.Mini moog is the best, love its rawness fat sound like its in the face.

[@hypnodelica]

As a Sub 37 owner I have to concede that the MiniMoog sounds a little brighter, squelchier and slightly better in a head to head - but for 3 times the price I just don't see the new Model D as giving the same value for money... especially when you factor in all of the bells and whistles they've stuck on the Sub 37...

[@hypnodelica]

@NelyL If I wanted a rack mod instead of a keyboard and if I was happy to lose the sequencer, the arpeggiator, the modulation, the preset memory and stable tuning I would definitely opt for a Behringer Model D over my Sub 37...

[@hypnodelica]

@NelyL Personally I'd rather get the Poly D - an extra oscillator, limited polyphony, a couple of built in effects, a sequencer, keyboard, and it looks like a Model D... I know it's £300 more than the rack version but it just looks better all around if you wanted a Model D clone

[@robosdrumworld]

Very Helpful video!!

[@LoveandHavoc]

Here is a link to the Model D manual in case anyone was like me and wanted to check out the rest of the patches. Going to do my own experimenting on my subsequent 37! api.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/2018-01/Minimoog_Model_D_Manual.pdf

[@kierenmoore3236]

Thanks for another great comparison, Starsky! Can you get the same volume from the Sub37, without the grittiness … which, as I understand it, comes from the mixer/oscillators overloading it anywhere about halfway or so? As I understand it, that’s why they brought out the Subsequent, the mixer on which has more headroom before overdriving? Does keeping the Sub37 clean (avoiding that grit, assuming that’s even possible?!) mean the Sub37 can’t be as loud as the Minimoog? Though, it seems the Sub37 & Subsequent are just darker synths, anyway - no matter what? Cheers!

[@StarskyCarr]

Cheers, the Sub37 is definitely darker, the filter doesn't open as much, but I've not noticed any real difference in volumes, but then I've not done a side by side test - I'd only do something like that if I thought there was a distinct difference.

[@sxipshirey]

damn, the mini-moon sounds so much more rich, there just seems to be more happening in the details of the sound

[@michaelbauers8800]

I was reading the comments thinking, well maybe I have the poor man's Moog and my sub 37 just can't hang, and I am too proud to admit it. And I hear him playing this sound and I am thinking, crap, that is so amazing sounding, bet it's the model D. Nope, was the sub 37! (this is at 5:06) So this was a blind experience - I did not know which was playing, and underrated the sub 37 by presuming that amazing bass sound was not the sub 37 :)

[@StarskyCarr]

I noticed a few sounds like that when I was editing which is why I put the 'close your eyes' bit in there. I know it's not scientific, but there is a lot of crossover and it all really depends on what sounds you need in different tracks.

[@ronnieaux5290]

There's also these great sweet spots with the Sub-37. I have moments with mine where I get a sound that is so deep and dark, and I just know a model D would never really nail that in the same way. But yeah, the Model D has an amazing bite to it. Classic for a reason!

[@andresgualtero9132]

is the mini moog volume Louder?

[@StarskyCarr]

Good question.... Not according to the meters. It's really difficult to get everything equal, and impossible for it to be perceived equally throughout numerous listening environments. The meters show parity, but our ears are more sensitive to different frequencies. Different monitoring systems increase or decrease various frequencies so its all dependent on your ears and what's playing the sound. From the metering, physically the sound pressure level should be equal for all, however because of the variations in tone they will never be perceived equally. Your question highlights the fact that every listener has an individual listening experiencing which very much depends on the environment (every room sounds different) and the source (every headphone and speaker has unique characteristics). This in turn demonstrates that there will be multiple views on each demonstration, and I do this myself as I move from one set of headphone and monitors to the next..

[@andresgualtero9132]

ok i was just wondering. but nevertheless you do an amazing job on your tutorials and i thank you for that!

[@BarnabyFWNightingale]

I was feeling the same way. I also perceived the minimoog louder and I felt like that made my like its sound more. Both dream synths, though!!

[@StarskyCarr]

It could be that the Model D generates frequencies that our ears are more sensitive to - making it sound louder at similar SPLs - hence perceiving it as better. This could also be why people say it cuts through a mix. This could all of course be nonsense!! :)

[@jaeryan1337]

Starsky Carr I think your right man. Whenever I play a mix I've done for my girlfriend, (who has no music knowledge or skill) she always points out how awesome a certain part sounds. That certain part is almost ALWAYS the Model D! Luckily that helps me justify what I spent on it haha

[@microwerx_phd]

I think that the variable wave shape on the Sub 37 lends itself to different harmonics. This is especially noticeable with the square wave because while you can tune in a good square wave for one note, it doesn’t keep its shape across the keyboard. The model D has fixed oscillators and maintains it. Try comparing the sub oscillator on the Sub 37 which is a fixed square wave with that of the continuous one and you’ll see what I mean. I suspect it’s the same thing with the Voyager too.

[@paul_bismuth]

Hello ! Still happy with my rev2, I wonder that now you prooved to the entire world that the Behringer model D is close to the sound of the Moog, without talking about prices: -wich one between Model D, Grandmother ( if you know...her ?! ) and the Subsequent 37 would be the first to pair with the Rev2 ? Feel free if you think about an other contender !

[@synthartist69]

So I had a Behringer D and I have a Model D Moog. The Behringer does NOT sound like a Moog in person.. maybe on compressed KZbin videos, but not in person. It was a bitch to program compared to the Moog... what one control does on the Moog does not do the same on the Behringer. I sold mine to a friend. It sounded VERY compressed, somewhere between analog and digital. Those who are selling their Model D's in hopes the Behringer will replace it are going to wish they had kept the MOOG!

[@MilesAwayOfficial]

Grandmother is the best sounding moog mono that's under $4k

[@Sonikbytes]

It is called SUB for a reason and not just another Model D reissue. In my opinion, they envisioned it to be used mainly for complex bass tones and not top end leads, etc A nice marketing trick name calling scheme such as 'SUB' makes people think in their head that they are getting that 'ultimate SUB BASS' machine (especially for noob buyers)

[@pcprobot]

What is the preset called, "Squelchy?" Or is that something you made? Could not find it on my Subsequent 37.

[@StarskyCarr]

What time does it appear on the video?

[@mackmccord3743]

He's using patches from the minimoog's book

[@s.f.n.641]

Is it possible to run a model D through the subsequent 37 and playing them at the same time (midi), to have more OSC’s and have the best of both worlds?

[@StarskyCarr]

Yes, the S37 has an external signal input. But you’d lose the brightness of the Minimoog’s filter. but a fun afternoon doing it :)

[@DaveBessell]

I've actually done that - just by sending the same midi to both and then mixing the audio together. You can get some ridiculously fat sounds but honestly some of them are too fat for my music which tends to be quite busy anyway. Usually the minimoog alone will give you as fat as you want. Sending the Sub 37 oscillators through the mini filter might be worthwhile - I will have to try that out.

[@19karl16]

would love to know how to get the sound at 3:28 , Im not advanced on synths only starting out and been trying to get that sound

[@StarskyCarr]

Its actually a really simple 2 oscillator patch.. 1 - 25% pulse 16', max vol 2 - 50% pulse 32', max vol cutoff around 1/3 max res around 2/3 max no felt envelope amp envelope - attack 10ms, decay 600ms, sustain 8, release 600ms then add more cutoff to suit... Keyboard tracking around 50% - or 1:1 - but you won't really notice unless playing the full length of the keyboard.

[@robosdrumworld]

What’s that patches at 3:14, 7:04, 10:47?

[@synthartist69]

I have both. The model D sounds better to me, more alive, less compressed. I get a much better feeling when playing the Model D, so much that I don't want to stop playing. However, I do appreciate the patch storage on the Subsequent 37 as I am more of a player and prefer instant gratification by pushing a button to get a different sound. I basically use both Moogs for my raw basic meat and potato sounds.... a few basic bass and a few basic lead patches where most owners are probably more interested in all the mod routings, etc. The Subsequent 37 sounds great but I would love to have a 44 key version with a real time delay section and bigger LCD... A Sub 44... are you listening Moog? Great video BTW!

[@AdamTheAd-vanc3d]

I would be very intrested to know what the sub 37s waveforms look like pre vcf. Im just wondering if maybe 1)The Vcfs fully open cutoff frequency is actually just lower ? and , 2) wether or not the sub37 has capacitors in the audio chain to reduce some excess inherent noise and hence trimming off some high frequency. My third theory is that maybe it has something to do with the transistors in the audio are slightly being overdriven and saturated hence the curves in the waveforms . Great vid btw and good to hear a synth bod from the u.k. You defo own some outstandiing instrumemts !! ;-)

[@brianlespoir6287]

If I am correct, 3 oscillators is lower voltage per oscillator, but 3 oscillators stacked is a higher voltage and the same as the 2 oscillators of the Sub 37, so if you only use 2 oscillators of the model D it's sounds quieter then the 2 of the Sub 37 and I think that is the reason the Sub 37 sounds phatter then the Model D in this comparison.

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

At 12' on this type of 80s bass sound i feel the sub37 doesn t have enough fast enveloppes (as the juno60 or better the pro one), do you feel the same ?

[@StarskyCarr]

The Rolands tended to have really wide modulation which is why they sound snappy. I don’t think it’s the speed of the envelopes but the amount of modulation. I don’t know about the S37 I’ve never put them together but it’s something I’ve noticed with other stuff. Check out my Jupiter 6 vs Super 6 where I go into this in some detail.

[@elvinlewis4233]

My ears like Moog. It's those darned harmonics. Subtle but present. I haven't heard a synth I like more than the 37. Not even from Moog, so I admit my bias, but it is at least, a sonic bias.

[@oscarvanderburgh]

With the keytracking to zero and the res a bit up it can sound as lush and bright as the model D. So; no it’s not darker if you don’t want it to. Also, keep the levels low to make sure you don’t overdrive (this is fixed in the subsequent 37).

[@StarskyCarr]

Interestingly I had them both out today comparing a few for a fun Moog video. I can assure you the D is so much brighter than the S37 ... you can try to make it brighter but the filter only goes to 20kHz. It’s not a problem just a characteristic.

[@oscarvanderburgh]

Starsky Carr I believe you. I don’t have a D. I guess I’m trying to tweak the s37 for brighter tones, and I was quite surprised it can sound lush and bright. Thing is... i’m considering getting the Behringer D. But that would be just because I can’t effort the real D. It feels a bit stupid... should I? 🤔

[@StarskyCarr]

@@oscarvanderburgh I would... you can always sell it if it doesn't suit. They're so cheap they don't loose much value. It's not like buying a Prophet 6 where you'll loose probably more than £300 if you sell it!

[@oscarvanderburgh]

Starsky Carr you’re right. Ordered it. I’ll let you know my findings. :D

[@oscarvanderburgh]

Hey Starsky, I have it home now. Hmm. I’m immediately puzzled. Is it even possible that the behringer Model D sounds a few octaves lower than it should? It’s in tune, but I have to to turn the osc range to “2 and play one octave higher to match a-440. Could it been tweaked wrongly? It’s a b-stock

[@Pan6888]

Model D of course for tha wide old school sound, sub goes darker but thats not good since i think more frequencies create a FAT and clear sound at the same time. As a Minimoog voyager OS owner i would go definitely for the D if i could.

[@OPTIONALWATCH]

what about the Model D vs Behringer Poly D. How do those two compare? Is it closer in sound?

[@christopherpederson1021]

The Model D just sounds better in my opinion.

[@station2station544]

I own the Model D RI and I actually would like to add a Sub37 for fun. It has a different characteristic.

[@christopherpederson1021]

Yeah, definitely would be a nice addition.

[@StefanoCipo87]

Agree, I tried a sub37 at a music store and really didn't like it much, sounds thin to me.

[@scottlarson1548]

I like the more resonant filter in the Sub 37.

[@LinaaaOfficial]

I agree, wish it were the other way around.

[@Venti242]

Proud Sub37 Owner!

[@patrickjamesfitzroy]

I did notice that you had the oscillator levels set to nearer full in the mixer section of the Sub 37, whereas Moog stated that 12 o'clock was unity gain and anything beyond that was actually pushing the filter into overdrive. That might contribute to the reason why you could hear harmonic distortion in the Sub vs the cleaner sound of the Minimoog.

[@StarskyCarr]

Haha.. well spotted. Yeah I’ll noticed that too after editing the video :o I double checked the distortion on the sub and it doesn’t add more harmonics, but does alter the waveform, ever so slightly rounding off the edges. If anything it reduces harmonic content. But I should really have kept them at 12 as you suggest.

[@patrickjamesfitzroy]

@@StarskyCarr No worries - Tbh, I was nitpicking big time, it's a great comparison video!

[@josecortez5213]

Model D wins but for $1500 the sub 37 is a lot of synth.

[@dukeviking]

Jose Cortez I love my Subsequent 37. Everything I could ever need and afford from a Moog Analog synth.

[@alm5966]

How does the upgraded keybed on the Subsequent compare to the standard Sub 37 one?

[@StarskyCarr]

I’ve not tried it but if it’s anything like the model D or voyager it’s a vast improvement

[@medwaystudios]

The Sub Phatty also sounds dark on the 4 pole filter. When it's set to 1 pole the cutoff goes up a fair bit. Shame the 4 pole can't do the same. I mainly use the 4 pole only when I want darker/filtered sounds and the other poles for crisper patches.

[@adw395]

Where can I get that book with knob settings for sub 37 ???

[@tendingtropic7778]

its just the minimoog manual, you can download it here api.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/2018-01/Minimoog_Model_D_Manual.pdf

[@theotavernier9484]

the darker tone thing, isn't it something you can sort out with an EQ or a saturator like a Decapitator?

[@StarskyCarr]

not easily. ... and not really. Adding harmonics via distortion colours the oscillator, smoothing the edges. And you can't add eq to the tops that don't exist. You just can't get it to sound the same.

[@oscarrivas7240]

The Sub 37 sounds like a plug-in next to the Model D. Ughhhh....why are you doing this to meee!!! Ok so, I've got an OB-6 and an OB-X8...which one would you sell to finance the Model D? Someone please help. 😅

[@cozmovox]

soundwise model d is and has always been unbeatable....that's why it's reissued.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

I bought the Sub 37 as my first real analog synth due to smaller size and more affordable price tag. Someday want the larger Voyager or Model D!

[@Gibson1976uk]

I notice the scoff on the sub37 is not being used to brighten the sound? its on the darkest setting

[@StarskyCarr]

What's the scoff? The filter is fully open so not sure how I can make it any brighter without resorting to reducing from 24dB to 6dB filter - which is then of course not comparable to the Model D - happy to be enlightened though as it'd be great to be able to open the top end ;)

[@Gibson1976uk]

sorry! its suppose to say Slope. I guess its unfair to use something on the sub37 that the D doesn't have. I personally like to keep it on 24db most of the time

[@StarskyCarr]

Gibson Weasel haha and I was really intrigued about the scoff!! Even looked through the manual duh :)

[@Gibson1976uk]

sorry for the text error! maybe someone can design a synth with the scoff switch :) it gives a bass and treble boost :) scoffing up the eq :)

[@ChrisLongR16]

Great video mate :) I love my Sub37, it does have a different sound to the Model D, but it can sound pretty damn similar too. Both are great synths without doubt, yes the Sub can be a bit darker sounding but changing the pole brightens it up, as does checking that you have the standard keytracking set to zero. One thing I did notice on all the patches is that you had the beat frequency on the Sub37 turned to around 3/4 o'clock on most of the patches, depending on how you made those patches (panel mode or just init) that does make a difference to the sound of the oscillators when stacked. The Multidrive also adds a little something to the sound, especially when it comes to needing more bass in your resonance heavy patches. Would be cool to get access to a download of your Sub37 patches though ;) Maybe even a few vids on how you build them.

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks Chris, funnily enough I've just posted a reply to someone saying something similar re KB tracking, multidrive and filter poles. Take a look at my response to Ted Ehlers - I was having a mild panic thinking I'd left the KB track at 50%.. :) The beat freq will just be a leftover form other patches, so not a factor in the sounds on the video. I tend to make some patches as starting pints for the videos, run through the flow a few times in my head - trying to make sure I cover everything without repeating myself or boring the socks of everyone! So the patches in the vids normally have a stating point that I move away from as I chat and get absorbed in the demo. I'm thinking about a patch design video - just trying to work out the best way to do it.

[@Room16Tattoo]

Sounds good mate :) Either way, I enjoyed it. As said, both are brilliant synths with their own character, it's not like for like but you can tell it has Moog written all over it. I tend to use a bit of compression and EQ if I want more top end sizzle, and of course, add in some effects and you can get lost for hours n hours. Look forward to the patch videos :)

[@synthdude7664]

Hey Starsky! Why didn’t you use the 12 on the filter ? Isn’t that a more classic moog sound ? It sounds much brighter than then 24

[@StarskyCarr]

Hi, actually the Moog ladder filter is classic 24dB which is why I chose to stick to that. 12 dB gives a slightly brighter tone to the S37, but changes the slope (obviously!) ;) so although it’s a bit brighter than at the 24 setting it’s still not the same as the Mini.

[@synthdude7664]

Starsky Carr ahh I see , thanks for the reply! Are you good at recreating tones ? Would you be up for a challenge ? Maybe even create a lesson ? It would be very appreciated !

[@StarskyCarr]

Hmmm I’m OK but tend to create what I’m looking for rather than replicating others. Interesting though - what did you have in mind?

[@synthdude7664]

Okay, so it’s the synth bass track to Bruno mars 24k magic . I feel it’s a model D ; and I can’t seem to get a close enough sound with the sub 37. Here is a google drive link that you can open to check the bass track stem . Would you be able to recreate these sounds with a model D and sub 37? I would be beyond grateful. As I can’t seem to get a close enough sound with the sub 37 drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/0B3YLu7lGGpTiY0JLUnpiZGRwMzQ

[@tenalock]

model d sharper steeper env capability? with that epic ladder filter sound?

[@explosionmonty]

good comparison, but not completely fair, its important to be careful on the sub37 in the mixer section, all above 12 o'clock goes into overdrive by intention. So it explains why the sounds are relatively good matched with just one OSC on but changes drastically with all combined, because there is no headroom left with full opened OSC volumes and it just distorts and compresses the sound. but anyways nice comparison.

[@xxheartbrokexx100]

I basically run an ms10 and monologue into a mother 32 and play all 4 oscillators together controlled thru midi by my monologue live and my OB will be midid to the monologue as the master controller you can get some gnarly Moog basses out of that rig and anything else you'd ever want

[@AlainHubert]

That's why a Minimoog D is a Minimoog D and will never be matched, unless it's a clone like the Behringer Model D. And that's why I love my 1975 Minimoog D.

[@swiftmello123]

Actually for the price the 37 is amazing!😎

[@taubennedjensen]

Thanks for yet a great video! :) I have a SUB37 which I love but lead-wise I don't find it straight forward to get smooth/smooth-ish leads out that resembles those of the Model D. But that could simply be my limited programming capabilities. On that note, any chance you'll do a lead comparison?

[@klinkske]

I have both and keep on thinking i should sell the 37....

[@StarskyCarr]

Same but I love how you can create instant grooves on the 37 with the synced modulation.

[@telegraph_hill]

Thank you! Do you ever post patches for the sub37 from your experiments? I learn so much from your videos.

[@StarskyCarr]

Joel Dubiner Hi and thanks for watching. It's good to know they come in useful. I don't post the patches as I try to start with simple sounds and build from that in the videos. I guess I must jump a few steps when editing otherwise it could make for very tedious viewing! I'm not sure if or where I save them, but it's something to consider for future uploads.

[@theDelinquenC]

The "ouch" sound at 11.50 on the sub37 is awesome i was going to ask for a patch also lol!!!

[@theDelinquenC]

Whats the best filter and amp envelope settings to get a snappy pluck sound on the 37? I try all different ones but can't quite get it as plucky as i would like? Thanks

[@StarskyCarr]

It's all a balance of cutoff, filter envelope amount and the filter decay. Try this for starters: Cutoff 320Hz EG AMT +3 Both Filter and Amp env setting: attack 0. decay a single marking anticlockwise from 1, sustain 0, release anything (decay kills it anyway) The sustain on each will change the endpoint of the filter and amp sweep, so you can have a snappy start to a sustained note.

[@theDelinquenC]

Thanks man I got it nice and pluky great tips thanks a load!

[@RoyMaya]

In my opinion I prefer the Mini over the 37. The Mini just sounds more punchy and focused and the 37 seems to be a little muffled and not as focused.

[@bruhology6437]

Can't afford a synth but they're still sick

[@mackmccord3743]

Get yourself a beringer model d. You'll be happy and that'll be the beginning of the rest of you life

[@thescrewarchive5283]

@@mackmccord3743 :DDD

[@riverkelly7747]

@@mackmccord3743 got one a couple weeks ago as my first analog, and now im already looking at a werkstatt

[@pdbordelon]

Such awesome machines. The SUB 37 is a tad more advanced but both sound great. I'd hope that at twice price the voyager would be a bit easier to play???

[@exiles_dot_tv]

Anybody have more info on the springs for the Moog Sub 37? I've found the keyboard is very hard to get a wide velocity range from, if I concentrate on nothing but velocity I can get a semi-decent range, but when I really get into playing and record the MIDI most of the values peak out at the top of the Midi range (127.) I've never had this much problem with velocity on a keyboard before.

[@asdfjkl227]

Do midi in with another keyboard to control it

[@station2station544]

4 oscillators on the Model D reissue if you include the dedicated LFO in the left hand controller area.

[@christopherpederson1021]

5 if you include the tuning oscillator

[@station2station544]

Touche! indeed you are correct.

[@michaelbauers8800]

Interesting

[@couchcamperTM]

since moog does not want to sell the minimoog I got a boog. same sound. I repeat: they don't want to. I would have saved up for one, it is something special with that name on it. soundwise? china delivers... thx Uli.

[@rt-uh6mt]

If you need an analog synth to hold down just the bass you should really look at more affordable Minitaur. Bass is what it's designed to do.

[@Dmaccabees]

💯

[@spakkajack]

the moog destroys walls the rest puts small divets in them god bless you mr moog

[@alieustiansamateh6401]

12:32 . 12:49 min . 13:07 🤩

[@qix6424]

Might be sacrilegious but I like the Sub series way better then the mini series.

[@WerkPl]

Thanks

[@esoteric6178]

With today's production techniques the model d shouldn't cost more than 1500 USD probably less. Of course though despite having nearly identical architecture people will say the Roland and Behringer sound inferior. I've heard them in person. It's unrecognizable from the original model d. Behringer will be releasing theirs for 399 I think it is.

[@StarskyCarr]

I'd like to get my hands on them to find out for myself (and everyone who watches). I've asked Uri for a review model so we'll see....

[@Madrrrrrrrrrrr]

Nah. The new D is build like the old one. Through hole. Which is much easier to fix and sounds better. But is more expensive to make. Get a brodel d if you want cheap with less sound. Although for the money it sounds good though. But not a real D.

[@themysteriousoa4466]

Fun Fact: You can replicate the Hum sound effect of a Lightsaber using a Minimoog! You just need two Oscillators and a whie noise! The Hum of the Lightsaber is an F#!

[@StarskyCarr]

Now that is a fun fact!

[@themysteriousoa4466]

@@StarskyCarr Enjoy!

[@gencom]

You just have to change the filter pole from 24db to 18db on the S37 and you're done with this difference of brightness. The 24db on the S37 is a bit muffled so you have to workaround with these filter poles. I have a Memorymoog (and got a Model D for years) and i've been able to easily reproduce a lots of mono sounds on the S37 but not with the 24db pole.

[@StarskyCarr]

That's odd. It makes very little difference from 24 to 18db on mine. There's a definite difference between 6 and 24, but it still doesn't bring it anywhere near the Model D.

[@gencom]

Indeed that odd because there's a real difference on my unit for this (very early serial numbers, first batch) but i have to admit that using the 12db filter pole is even closer (more overtones). Once again, for me the 4 pole is not enough bright and warm as for the other poles. Too muffled. To be close to vintage synths i must workaround. About the beating oscillators (on your unit it seems it's a bit difficult to get straight vco's as for your Model D), you also have to check the "variance" function under the hood. Maybe your S37 is from a last batch, sent with the last firmware update, so you should check if the variance control is set to 0. Don't also forget to add just a litle bit of multidrive, it clips the waveforms as you can check with an oscilloscope and you can get closer sharped waveforms as on your D (there's also a bit of distorsion if you raise the Osc volume from approx. 6 to 10). Anyway thanks for your video, very great for sharing thisl :)

[@ageshero]

I like that almost chorusy bass sound

[@bencookson3662]

Any love for the Novation Bass Station 2?

[@JJSurma]

I have one. I'm thinking about selling it and getting a Model D. I'll only need another $3300.

[@noahhultgren193]

am I crazy for prefering novation stuff even after making music with moogs? not sure, but I'm certainly richer.

[@RyanMorgan89]

love my bass station 2, will never sell! but i am ready to upgrade!

[@MrQmason]

I wonder why they didn't put more keys on the Sub37................

[@StarskyCarr]

+MrQmason They'd have had to change the name!

[@MrQmason]

LOL..... ah, I see. Well, if they had added an additional octave from the start they could have gave it a different name...... great review by the way :)

[@synthartist69]

I agree... would love a Sub44 with 44 keys, a realtime delay section and bigger LCD!

[@Mr_ToR]

Awesome review. nevertheless, waveform comparisons should always be for where the oscillator produces low, mid and high frequency signal because in analog synths, the wave shape changes throughout the frequency range even on the same oscillator. So it is better to see a comparison of the change. That's the beauty of analog, everything is supposed to change :-)

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks for the comment, glad you enjoyed it. I take your point. Although changes are minor they are there - which is why I badged this as a bass comparison - so only looking at the lower end of the frequencies. I'm thinking of doing similar one for leads, where I'll take a look at changes over the frequency ranges as well.

[@Mr_ToR]

👍 👍 😄

[@amazeus1980]

Model D ''cuts through'' unlike any other synth...omg what a difference!

[@NicolasMelis]

mmmm for moog :) ❤️

[@mackmccord3743]

And Phhhh for phat lol 🤘🏽🕶️💜