Miscellaneous Myths: Artemis and Apollo

Finally, a deep dive into everyone's favorite aesthetically opposed fraternal twins! Let's see how two people with such similar origins (or are they?) can grow into such different disasters!
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[@OverlySarcasticProductions]

☀🌙PLUSH TIME - The Celestial Twins are here, and they are SOFT!☀🌙 Artemis and Apollo plushes are available at our merch store - overlysarcastic.shop/collections/plushies Bundle both and get $5 off! -B

[@SuperHGB]

You forgot to pin this

[@operleutnant7235]

Are they limited edition?

[@OriginalCreatorSama]

It occurs to me that there's an awful lot of great art of ancient books that you've put into these videos. Can we have an Ancient Literature Pin Set at some point? I would love to have a decorative opener for history/mythology sharing as well as a handy reminder and visual for those i'm talking to! (and your Astronomia bear art is the freaking cutest, Red!)

[@shadowkingdarksin3980]

if there was a book about modern day gods and one mortal who was born to hunt gods and artemis and apollo get killed off first i would like to know how that end 😅

[@phonemic_arbourrr8179]

love learning all the storys

[@wheresbellaj2386]

Artemis being barely mentioned, because she’s f-ing off in the woods, and Apollo having way too many stories, because he literally cannot physically restrain himself from keeping out of major shit is…actually very in character for them

[@billcipher4368]

I feel like one sibling took all the fame genes while the other got left behind

[@bunzbunzi4215]

Hermes later adopted Apollo's undying need to be famous and not keeping their self out of major shits

[@Victoria-_]

Very in character, indeed 😂

[@starmaker75]

Worshipper of apollo: hey why don't you rednecks write stuff down to your goddess. Too dumb to write? Worshippers of Artemis: well if your our shoes where you still in a hunter gather environment with some agriculture with nature almost against and if you don't master in childhood you be death. Again sorry for not knowing that munch writing when nature seems to go against you.

[@yetanother9127]

I mean, Apollo _is_ the god of telling stories . . .

[@BowserTheSecond]

The idea of Diana being worshipped with three different faces actually makes perfect sense for a moon goddess, considering how the moon constantly changes phases.

[@victoralexandervinkenes9193]

Huh... never thought of it like that. Makes sense in hindsight, of course.

[@chimera9818]

If Greek Roman pantheon had continue it could have resulted in her different action’s resulted from or being the cause to lunar cycles

[@gokbay3057]

Pretty sure Romans did have Luna as a separate moon goddess originally tho.

[@sonofcronos7831]

Actually her three faces have nothing to do with moon phrases. She was a goddes of Heaven as a moon goddess (Luna), a goddess of Earth as the huntress (Diana) and a goddess of the Underworld as a sorceress (Hecate/Trivia). So her three faces references her domain in three realms.

[@sonofcronos7831]

​@@gokbay3057yeah some Roman writers gave Apollo and Diana the sun and moon domains, but others did not. So not even in Rome they become the sun and moon gods completely. They were never regarded as sun and moon in Greece except Apollo in Delphi, while in Rome it was not as common to relate both deities to the sun and moon (the romans did not care about the sun and moon that much). Their domains as sun and moon is more of a modern than a ancient thing.

[@arouraskeatch5903]

Honestly, Artemis and Apollo being polar opposites and having completly contrasting mindsets and lives but still partying and vibing together is so siblings

[@Harperthe3d]

That is fr me and my brother

[@misslangleysoryuisiconic]

Artemis : “we’re making some trouble…” Apollo : “but make it double..”

[@salvadortoscano2534]

SHIT THEY DO ACT LIKE THEM!!! Where's Meowth??

[@MC_CN]

@@salvadortoscano2534 Arrows

[@rosiered6712]

​@@MC_CN PFFFFFTT

[@cat5lover862]

Meowth could be Hermes

[@prince_nocturne]

Artemis: "To bring the world some devastation" Apollo: "But stopping before full ruination." Artemis: "To denounce the evils of sex and love" Apollo: "Except the cute ones I call my dove."

[@dragonicdoom3772]

It does make me chuckle that Artemis basically has 3 modes: badass huntress, loving sister, and short tempered brat who resolves all her problems with MURDER.

[@sonofcronos7831]

Diana or Trivia did indeed personify three concepts: the heavenly moon goddess Luna/Selene, the huntress Diana/Artemis, and the underworld sorceress goddess Trivia/Hecate. So you are not wrong when dealing with the roman version

[@thomaswampler6209]

That's almost every girl I've had the pleasure of being friends with!

[@annikabarklund3497]

It's muder, the plan is murder.

[@nobodyatall2551]

Interesting tone for someone in random boar attack range.

[@thomaswampler6209]

@@nobodyatall2551 no matter how safe you may feel, you're ALWAYS in range of a random boar attack.

[@bluelfsuma]

"In some versions, she assisted in her own twin brother's delivery." Baby Artemis: "Don't worry, mom, I got this!" *pulls Apollo by the ankles*

[@Fowlplay141]

"Get yo a** out 'ere boi!"

[@annikabarklund3497]

It's interesting that Artemis is born first. The goddess of the wild dangerous places, helping to bring forth the god of civilization and community.

[@DelphinusZero]

I was a little disappointed Red didn’t draw an image of a baby artemis midwifing for that.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@DelphinusZero Same.

[@G.F.SF55]

​@@annikabarklund3497omg that's so cool

[@bariyou]

I love the idea of Artemis, Goddess of the wild and of the hunt, visiting her brother Apollo in his temple to party down, despite their differences, because they really are just the most siblings of all time.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Artemis was also a goddess of dancing, while Apollo of playing and singing, so... Their parties were legendary.

[@taphy4873]

@@neutronalchemist3241Artemis breaking it down on the dance floor while Apollo beatboxes

[@tiringsarcasm]

@@taphy4873My new headcanon

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@@taphy4873 Lmao, imagine 😅 Olympian parties must be insane

[@discmanthecdlord]

​@@thalmoragent9344they probably where since Dionysus is around

[@clementgoh9270]

Poseidon warming up and asking if Apollo wants to throw down while Apollo watches Hera beat down Artemis is hilarious. It's the level of confidence Poseidon has and how casually willing he is to beat his nephew.

[@GSBarlev]

Poseidon giving off major Shaxs from _Lower Decks_ vibes.

[@lordhades8025]

It's probably because he knows he can back it up. He is arguably more powerful than Zeus since he controls the sea, sky, and earth, the domains of all the Big Three. Which explains why he was once considered the king of the gods. He has enough battle experience and skill that he was confident in going toe to toe with Athena over the patronage of Athens and he even took Ares to court over the death of his son. He is literally winning against the masters and personification of war in all its forms. Demeter once ended the gods by not doing her job as the goddess of agriculture, making all the mortals who offer prayers and offerings die which would be the divine equivalent of death. Although without mortals farming and no fertile land to do it, she would also be killing herself. Poseidon can do the same thing without the same danger to himself by just raising the sea levels. The sea is still there in he keeps his domains and power because he doesn't really rely on offerings. If anything it would just make him more powerful because the sea just got bigger.

[@starmaker75]

​@@lordhades8025yeah Poseidon might be the second king of God. I mean his power is almost on par with the primonal gods.

[@leandersearle5094]

You don't have an uncle like that? Really?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@lordhades8025 In the same fight scene (Iliad, book 21) Athena mops the floor with Ares and then proceeds to mock him. It's business as usual.

[@chaihill1837]

I’m sorry, but a disgruntled baby Artemis laying on their back while Leto holds up a shiny Baby Apollo screaming about how great he is, is possibly the funniest thing Red has ever drawn.

[@laurenlarue8991]

Have you forgotten the seal fight

[@thesilverprincess]

In the top ten

[@mikakestudios5891]

It's up there with Fish Crimes

[@samn8825]

Yes fav drawing in this video

[@Hailey_Robinson33]

😂

[@justinduffany5580]

Artemis: I turned a guy into a deer just because he looked at me bathing. Apollo: Please, every person I’ve had eyes for inevitability jumps off a cliff. Leto: Kids! You’re both just awful.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

False

[@faunable9876]

The guy deserved it tbh

[@Silverwind87]

Their father would be proud.

[@billcipher4368]

@@faunable9876 for committing nothing? Because he looked at a god in a wrong way (literally )

[@milutinstankovic4638]

Zeus: I love my children

[@NanoSwarm]

When I was on a tour in Delos, my tour guide stated that Artemis was born first, and then assisted with the birth of her brother Apollo, and this was a metaphor for how the wild hunting side of humanity had to come first before things like the arts and music could be created. Always thought that was kinda cool.

[@mackenziewoloschuk7375]

oh shit, that was awesome

[@NoahofWill]

I love it, it makes so much sense

[@jenniferd2934]

That’s why she’s also known as the goddess of childbirth!

[@scrollcaps]

Artemis: I'm not coming into the city just to see your new temple. It's noisy, crowded and I hate it. Apollo: We have a kick-ass band and booze Artemis: You son of a bitch, i'm in.

[@DuskTheSandwing]

😭 frfr

[@illegalmemedealer3549]

I do wonder if Artemis’s whole deal of “terrifying goddess of murder who will kill you if you look at her” is at least partially a way of explaining the concept of “if you go into the woods and don’t know what you’re doing (ie, aren’t a hunter), you will die of Everything and nobody will be able to find your body.” Kinda like every fairy tale with an evil dark forest.

[@starmaker75]

Yeah and if you know nature, if you don't play by its rules you will die easily. So this could be a reminder about how the wilderness is to be taken seriously

[@AntediluvianRomance]

Kinda like all the people still lost in the woods every year, some of them never to be found.

[@TheRealEvilkitten3]

@@AntediluvianRomance artemis sits atop mount everest, shooting down the idiots who never bothered learning how to actually climb a mountain

[@gingermcgingin4106]

@TheRealEvilkitten3 Funny thing is, Mt. Everest isn't a technically difficult climb, it's a pretty straightforward ascent. K2, the 2nd tallest mountain, is way more difficult

[@bloodhoundo9320]

​@@gingermcgingin4106true but it's a long climb right?

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

You can always count on Red to tell a good story like she's a demigod of the Muses

[@steelwing5327]

She probably is tbh

[@looshanimates7862]

Seriously

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

​@peetsmcgoo5869 muse of mythology

[@Teagannova]

Absolutely

[@marknut9741]

Of course she can, she was there.

[@bthsr7113]

I like how Artemis occasionally goes back into the city for divine Karaoke. Not a total loner, and us introverts do crave company from time to time.

[@Kahtisemo]

She only shows up when it's a "wild" party 😂

[@bthsr7113]

@@Kahtisemo I actually think it would be some of the more subdued ones since she's not the most social of the gods, and a wild party with Greek Gods tends to mean boinking, which she's not interrested in.

[@cattiefogelsong6399]

@@bthsr7113oo i like this idea. I am picturing listening to more of an orchestra concert and maybe some soft vocals. Some string instruments maybe some pipes. When the song is over artemis leads the polite applause of her and her hunters. Maybe Apollo calles her up for a solo in her favorite song.

[@bluesbest1]

And the first/only people we actively seek out for company, the few people we know for a fact we'll be comfortable with, are our closest family. They also bring out a vastly different side of us than the one we show other people, or even ourselves when all alone.

[@Kelaiah01]

Interestingly, Artemis is often part of a trio: -Herself, Apollo and their mother, Leto -Herself, Athena and Hestia as the Virgin Goddesses -Herself, Persephone and Demeter as Nature Goddesses (as well representing the cycle of womanhood: maiden, lover and mother) -Herself, Hecate and Selene as Moon Goddesses

[@cattiefogelsong6399]

That us a really good point. She shows up in several groups of three prominent godesses. I still find the subtle differences between Artemis and Diana interesting.

[@raptorteam486]

Also Eileithyia, herself, and Hera if I recall correctly, goddesses of childbirth and midwifery Also I vaguely recall symbolizing the protection and growth of a woman from childbirth, childhood, and adulthood

[@Kelaiah01]

@@raptorteam486 Ooh, right!

[@someone_stole_my_handle]

Also herself, herself and herself

[@Kelaiah01]

@@someone_stole_my_handle LOL!!!

[@spritenado6983]

I really like Artemis and Apollo being cool with each other and hanging out rather than being diametrically opposed and hating each other.

[@brigidtheirish]

Until Apollo does his 'consent, never heard of her' thing, pissing Artemis off.

[@spritenado6983]

@@brigidtheirish At least he never wins his deadly game of tag.

[@brigidtheirish]

@@spritenado6983 Considering how many kids he has... or do you mean the game of tag with Artemis?

[@jessefanshaw8948]

@@brigidtheirishi feel like we missed red’s outro to this video. apollo’s a bastard. artemis’s a bastard. they’re gods and their fickleness and unredeemable qualities is what makes them complement each other. their disproportionate retribution causing massive collateral damage fits into their plague associations, etc. they’re a mess of contradictions and because of that it’s hard to ever treat them as people. It doesn’t make them ok, but that is the point.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@jessefanshaw8948 Also the classical Greek Apollo was probably the sincretization of several gods. An Anatolian god of plague, that was also invoked to end them (Aplu. Also Apollos' Mother, Leto has Anatolian origins), a Minoan sea-god of divination (the dolphin is a typical Minoan depiction, and Cretan priests are said to have built the sanctuary of Delphi), a Dorian family/community god (Apellai, Apellaion), and probably several others. What came out of it anyway is the god of civilization. Of what makes life worth living, beyond pure survival. The arts, medicine, divination (that, by then, was a way to control the arbitrariness of nature). That's why classical Greeks considered him the most "Greek" of all the gods. Because he was not the god of a force of nature, of a state of mind, or of a particular craft, but of civilization itself. His sister (and it had been a good call to make them siblings) is instead the goddess of anti-civilization. Of hunting, of wild animals, of wild places... The fight between Hera and Artemis is not that much a "Worf effect". Artemis can't refuse fighting, it's her nature, but Hera's words are true. "Your father made you a lioness among mortals", but Artemis' powers are shallow if used against an immortal, that doesn't fear beasts or illness. While Apollo wisely declined to fight Poseidon, as the god of sea and earthquakes would have mopped the floor with the one of civilization.

[@milozimben]

Honestly Apollo and Artemis regularly hanging out and partying together is wholesome in a way I did not expect from this video

[@syabilaazri7834]

The fact that Apollo with Ares and Artemis with Aphrodite during the war, they face really just say "okey, why we feel like we hang out a wrong god here..."

[@hp22h78]

They really are siblings. Should not get along at all, yet do. Though the idea of Artemis being a party animal is just wild. I imagining the famously reclusive goddess chugging wine, stealing Apollo's lyre, and singing her heart out while her hunters just blue-screen behind her.

[@billcipher4368]

Siblings are always fighting , but when they find ONE THING TO DO they will be the most wholesome pair ever

[@cgt3704]

Ikr. I always imagined them to dislike each other due to their polar opposites. But i guess even opposites can have something in common (namely going too overboard whenever someone does a bad thing)

[@gokbay3057]

@@hp22h78 No dude, she totally parties with her huntresses. Like seriously, iirc there is a myth where she asks for a boon/some gifts from Zeus and one of them is a choir of nymphs to sing about how awesome she is. Arty just doesn't like men (other than her brother and potentially father) and likes to hunt, she isn't a shy introvert or anything.

[@D3c4yingb0n3s]

Fun fact: A little boy once accidentally saw Artemis bathe and instead of punishing him she just turned him into a girl and had the kid join the hunt.

[@falconstudios146]

"...Jeez, I'd kinda feel bad about killing a kid. Hey, you want some free gender?" "Would I!"

[@booknerd4303]

Artemis said trans rights

[@DianaJournals]

I remember he got turned in a dear so he can never tell what he saw, but it's pretty funny the girl idea😂

[@georgeuferov1497]

​@@DianaJournals that was two different hunters

[@DianaJournals]

@@georgeuferov1497 who where the other one?

[@EllainDarragh995]

I love the Artemis and Apollo just jamming out together because that is the most sibling thing ever. We may hate each other at times and have many conflicts, but there is always going to be that one thing we share.

[@lordhades8025]

In the myths, Artemis was also said to be an amazing dancer and would leap and prance around Delphi while Apollo and the Muses played the music.

[@metarcee2483]

As the dancer between my sister and me, yup. We gonna jam out to Disney, and I'm going to try and sneak Broadway and ballet into the mix.

[@purplehaze2358]

To be fair, "Hubris: It's okay when the gods do it" applies to literally every religion and mythology I'm immediately aware of.

[@NotesFromTheVoid]

It's because in greek mythology hubris is defined by thinking or declaring yourself better than the gods so the gods can't really do it.

[@Woodledude]

@@NotesFromTheVoidCounterpoint: Thinking they're better than Zeus (or Hera, or another god) is a thing we see other gods doing all the time. It stands to reason that when there are multiple gods, one god can underestimate another, squarely fitting into that definition of hubris. I mean, Artemis tried to beat up Hera, and Hera beat her down, in this video. I'd say that's pretty hubristic.

[@colt9836]

​@@NotesFromTheVoid Hubris is crimes against the Gods and their Divine "profile." Zeus isn't gonna be mad if you raise your fist to a storm and scream FUCK YOUUUUUUU. He has other shit to deal with. But if you spit in the face of a stranger (Zeus Xenos) needed help or you make an altar to desecrate it, then yeah, argos (divine wrath) might be coming.

[@anubis7457]

@@Woodledude True, might makes right. Hubris would be overestimating your power. Otherwise, it's just the truth. Zeus is the most powerful god, but even he was clever enough to avoid the hubris of his predecessors and consumed/absorbed the wife who was supposed to give birth to a son that would overthrow him, and earned a very powerful daughter instead. One that he tends to dote on, no less (maybe due to fear that she might decide to go against him though).

[@Broomer52]

Looking around African Gods in particular (as far as I can tell) are all the most boastful gods I’ve seen. So many myths basically boil down “they were feeling really smug that day” I even found out through One Piece fans that Joy Boy is an actual African god who is uniquely the god of Joy. Where ever he shows up you hear the upbeat sound of his drums long before you see him. The guy is unflinchingly positive and cocky, you’re not shaking that monolithic pillar of self confidence.

[@yearlywise8003]

Ah man, there’s nothing I love better than a godly pair of homicidal twins.

[@jellyfishno.22]

What more could you want in life?

[@incanusolorin2607]

Who apparently may not even be twins afterall

[@billcipher4368]

I mean , most twins are homicidal (◣_◢) I would know from experience. ....

[@TheAnonyomusGuy]

Hey, their only KINDA homicidal like when they get caught with their pants down (literally or metaphorical) or when their mom has a Karen complaint

[@harmonetheanimationaddict4419]

Only one's a girlboss.

[@adeleaslan8182]

fun fact about the island of Delos: it's actually the body of the goddess Asteria, goddess of fallen stars, which is such a pretty title, and Leto's sister. She turned herself into an island after a disgusting situation where Zeus tried to force himself on her, and she either knew she couldn't flee him, or dove into the sea to get away from him only to run into Poseidon, who was the same piece of shit his brother was

[@rumeysaongul4765]

Yeah. Poor Asteria.

[@briannadragonrider]

Hades: "Are we SURE I'm not adopted?"

[@rumeysaongul4765]

@@briannadragonrider I can see him and Hestia wondering that.😂

[@wonderlilane3724]

@@briannadragonrider According to Red's video on Hades and Persephone, it could be said that he might be adopted. He didn't show up in the Mycenaean texts, and Poseidon instead was the top chthonic god (which is why earthquakes are part of his domain). It's entirely possible that Hades is an imported god, or at least got split off from Mycenaean Poseidon. I'm typing this from memory, though, so I suggest watching OSP's video on it instead of taking my word for it.

[@pokimanefartcompilation]

​​@@wonderlilane3724 Hades, Zeus and Poseidon are all sons of Cronus. They are definitely brothers.

[@nyroony]

As per usual Red's ability to create gut-wrenchingly awesome pieces with such a simplistic art style is amazing. Hera's "...But you are not Q U E E N." frame is genuinely one of the rawest drawings I've seen in a while.

[@breadg1818]

Like 80% of the drawing are goofy bits and charts and theres always like one fuckin metal frame

[@concept5631]

Poor Hera. Constantly dealing with Zeus.

[@zakronthesheep]

5:17 is also pretty wild

[@marshalmarrs3269]

It’s very likely that Apollo might have been Canaanite/semitic in origin.

[@MatthewCSnow]

I love the idea that everyone assumes Hera would be a pushover only to get painfully reminded that she use to fight titans

[@sonofcronos7831]

Unfortunaly everyone sticks to a phrase in the Iliad where it says that she did not fight the titan gods. However in the Theogony all gods and goddess that descended from Ouranos took a side, so she fighted too. Not only that, but she personally commanded titan armies in some occasions to take out Zeus, altrough she failed.

[@starmaker75]

Again she deals with Zeus. I imagine she would a few things from Zeus

[@rumeysaongul4765]

​@@sonofcronos7831 Hold on, did everyone take a side? I thought like half the titans just "noped" out of the war, or basically stayed neutral.

[@lordhades8025]

@@rumeysaongul4765 I know Oceanus and Tethys stayed neutral though a lot of their children chose sides (mostly with the gods). And the first generation female titans didn't fight so the main fighters were the six children of Kronos vs 5 of the Titan brothers since Oceanus didn't fight. Then there were a bunch of others to make up the numbers like Atlas and Prometheus siding with the Titans and Gods respectively.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

There's a reason her name is "Hera" (AIUI, it's equivalent to "Shero").

[@michaeliv284]

I like the idea that while Apollo was giving his "on heaven and earth I alone am honored" moment, Artemis was going through the wilds and thinking "I wanna be a forest goblin!"

[@shadowclaw7210]

You mean Fae?

[@michaeliv284]

@@shadowclaw7210 Goblin sounds funnier

[@Box-O-Soldier]

Dude saw Gojo in the future with his foresight and went "Ah, that's a catchy one! I might also get into Haiku while I'm at it, it's gonna be ACE!" (It was not, in fact, ace.)

[@RonnieNichols]

​@@shadowclaw7210the differences between "goblin" and "fae" today weren't really a thing back in the day. Basically just different ways of referring to the same group of weird mini-gods.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@Box-O-Soldier Isn't it Artemis who is ace?

[@robc6532]

Seeing Zeus shout, "Charging MONEY for livesaving medical treatment?! Unconscionable!!!" had me roaring with laughter

[@joeywarren60]

I wanna see you discuss Ares. He's like, one of the few genuinely unproblematic gods (At least by Greek standards). He has no known myths of him sexually assaulting anyone, and he even has a myth where he kills the rapist of his daughter, and when it turns out that rapist was one of Poseidon's kids, Ares got taken to court, and got away scot free.

[@Pilipilochka]

His only problem is that he's a goddamn god of war. Nevertheless, he is too cool, the only one who guessed that in a situation where a victim is being stalked by a rapist and the victim asks for help, you need to get rid of the rapist, and not turn the victim into something.

[@joeywarren60]

@@Pilipilochka *Cue a glare at Athena*

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

​@@joeywarren60 shh 🤫 do you really want to make Athena angry.

[@Quinntus79]

@@joeywarren60Red mentioned it in a different video, but Ares was less popular than Athena, because he was associated with the more brutal side of war. Athena was patroness of battle strategy and tactics. Ares took the murder, sacking, looting, burning, and slaughter side of war. It makes sense why most Greeks, other than the Spartans, weren’t as fond of Ares.

[@xenomang3149]

​@@joeywarren60Your choice of words shows how untrustworthy anything you say is. Don't preach about morals when your own are fickle and weak.

[@Karlos1234ify]

Can you imagine a Solar or Lunar eclipse back in those days? Apollo & Artemis arguing it’s their turn. 😂

[@andrewollmann304]

Apollo and Artimis were not the son god and moon goddess, though. They only became do in later traditions. Helios was the god of the sun and Selene was the goddess of the moon. Both were he children of the titan Hyperion.

[@cosmodoge6565]

‘Mom said it was MY TURN SPREADING PLAGUES!’

[@captaintitus4637]

Least aggressive sibling argument

[@starmaker75]

I image it going down like this Apollo: sister you can't take a ride to hellos chariot, it my turn Artemis: no it my turn, you also take a ride to hellos's chariot. Apollo: because your darkness and I am brightness. Hellos: *sigh*

[@h0m3st4r]

More like Helios and Selene, but point still taken.

[@Rainears129]

Ok, quick note: at least in modern times, it is entirely possible for twins to be born days or even weeks apart. This is often when one is born early, but the other is not ready to come out, labor will just stop (most often by medical intervention) and the second twin will continue developing in the womb. This often happens as a way to make sure the second twin is healthier when they're finally born, especially if the mother is already having fertility issues. Source: mom is an ObGyn and I have asked her about it before. She confirmed that it has happened, though is rare.

[@amethyst_cat9532]

I'm sure it isn't for anyone involved but that sounds absolutely metal

[@Dragongirl764]

I didn’t know that! That’s crazy…be sure to thank your mom for the knowledge added to my list of why pregnancy is terrifying

[@Rainears129]

@@amethyst_cat9532 It does, but the chances of it happening are slim, as you need a specific kind of multiple pregnancy, and I doubt any mother wants to go into labor twice in such a short amount of time.

[@Rainears129]

@@Dragongirl764 I grew up with her, and I don't want to ever get pregnant. She acknowledges my concerns and has already mourned the possibility of getting bio grandkids out of me.

[@Kelaiah01]

@@Rainears129 I can't help but notice you said "bio" grandkids, which hints that adoption is still on the table. If you ever do decide to do that, I'd like to say that's wonderful. :) But if you end up deciding children aren't for you, that's wonderful too. X)

[@DragonBoi3789]

With Apollo being portrayed as the son of Zeus, and him basically acting like Zeus in all but name, I have to wonder if Apollo wasn't in the process of replacing Zeus as the chief deity in the common zeitgeist.

[@MrMcSpiff]

Apollo was a VERY popular god in some eras. Protector of cities, the sun, music, medicine and plagues, livestock. He beat or matched several other gods at some of their own specialties in certain myths. I think he was even *more* popular by the era of Roman dominance, as Apollo Luciferos. Which makes Roman and post-Roman Christianity stories about "oh, Lucifer was a shining golden angel of music and light who everyone loved, but he's actually a bad guy and worse than God" ring a funny bell, huh?

[@fai-pe7oq]

In Ancient Greece his cults were the most widespread, and the most places had him as patron deity. I don’t think he would’ve replaced Zeus but he was def seen as second to Zeus in many ways as his right hand man. They come to blows often but still seem very close.

[@lyingboi2350]

@@MrMcSpiff Right, so, 1. I cannot find Apollo Luciferus in any thing that isn't a blog post; Instead Lucifer as a name is associated with the Planet Venus -- Lucifer means the bringer of light, the Morning Star. 2. IF Luciferus is an actual epiphet of Apollo, Lucifer being the Devil is a coincidence, not because of associations with Apollo. As stated, Lucifer used to literally just be a word in Latin; applied to Jesus Himself, used in the Proclamation for Easter "May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star (lucifer): the one Morning Star (lucifer) who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen." Lucifer is identified with the devil because English Bible translators messed up, and translated the word for morning star as Lucifer in isaiah 14, turning a prophecy against a king of Babylon raising himself up like a star, but eventually setting, into a proclamation against the Devil, who wanted to be God, but instead lost his angelic glory.

[@user-qn5km4xu5r]

Ο Διόνυσος θα το είχε αντικαταστήσει

[@mrjoe332]

I love to imagine that Apollo did in fact, arrive completely unannounced in Olimpus boasting about being the God of healing and archery, and everyone expected Artemis to just deck him then and there. But instead they did The Predator handshake meme and started referring to each other as twins with no further explanation

[@raptorteam486]

Then starts throwing the raddest party in history before Dionysus existed

[@eabha8230]

Apollo: the extroverted twin, who loves people (literally) and is very outgoing Artemis: the introvert who runs away when anyone steps in a 10m radius (and if she feels like it, shoots them)

[@epicwalrus7183]

I feel like I woild have been a worshiper of Artemis back in the day, because I too want to stab anyone who gets too close and is too loud. I also live in the woods.

[@flopdeop135]

more like turns them into a bear, blinds them, turns them into a stag to get killed by their own hunting dogs or turns them into a girl so they can join her hunt

[@axeburningfire2507]

\* the introvert who *_kills_* anyone who steps in a 10m radius

[@loganuroskie9402]

Except for that one dude Acteon one time lol.

[@talleywa5772]

Or kills them as a last resort

[@crystallinecrisis3901]

Humans as a species seem like we just love duality. Divine twins being the sun and moon makes perfect sense in that regard. One silver and one gold. It’s just a pleasantly scratched itch in the brain.

[@lucasriddle3431]

Duality is probably fundamental to psychology, I imagine. After all, at the most basic level... you can have more or less of a chemical. At the most basic level, you can have a positive or negative reaction to something. Obviously, people are *way* more complicated than that, but I feel like there's an argument to be made there.

[@coltonwilliams4153]

@@thenightqueen0 Umm… Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi were siblings. They were never lovers.

[@thenightqueen0]

@@coltonwilliams4153 Oh! Whoops. I got my info wrong there.

[@F1areon]

What about trios? Bronze usually gets thrown in there w/ gold and silver, too...

[@crystallinecrisis3901]

@@F1areon Both are pretty common honestly. Duality pops up more in my experience though. I think trios function well in mythology though because they, like duos, can have a bunch of uses.

[@Jin-qx9pt]

17:49 I love the mental image of Baby Artemis being born and immediately standing up, turning around and being like "ah, hold on, little bro's still in there. C'mon, dude, hurry it up!"

[@peggyliepmann5248]

The repeated references to Artemis being the scary twin to Apollo's relative chill amuses me, because one of the retellings of the Niobe myth I read as a youngin specifically stated that Apollo's bright arrows of sunlight brutally ripped through Niobe's seven sons without mercy, while Artemis' gentle arrows of moonlight made her seven daughters basically fall asleep and not wake up again. Not sure where they got that idea.

[@tanishqayadav2239]

Well they both killed the sons and daughters in the end so it doesn't matter it's just artistic writing at the end

[@evanfishsticks8010]

Artemis, goddess of the untamed wild - almost always depicted clothed to the point where the one time she's not, she kills a dude about it Apollo, god of civilization - depicted with his balls out, like, at least 70% of the time.

[@thisisnotmynam]

I'm not complaining about it tho 😌

[@AskMia411]

Makes sense in a way: in the wild, you need clothes as a protection from the elements and the wild flora and fauna, while in civilization clothes aren’t as necessary from a survival standpoint

[@Noctem_pasa]

@@AskMia411also being the goddess of maidens vs being the god of many different things that the Greeks associated with sex (music, poetry, male beauty) also would play an element lol

[@Hailey_Robinson33]

I just spit some cold flavored water out of my mouth… this is very funny

[@AskMia411]

@@Noctem_pasa very good points! I do wonder if Ancient Greek/Roman artists didn’t depict Artemis as scantily clad as Apollo out of fear of the Acteon (spelling?) treatment. If a god curses you for seeing then naked, as an artist I wouldn’t dare 😆

[@tyrant-den884]

Poet: "Tell me, oh sibling gods, how shall I write of you?" Apollo: "My birth brought all the flowers of Delos to bloom, and there tons of beautiful tragic love stories you may write of!" Poet: "Wonderful! And you?" Artemis: "No." Poet: "But you are a god, I must write something of you!" Artemis: "How about a story where a guy won't leave me alone so I feed him to his own dogs." Poet: "... I love it! Oh the hubris!" Artemis: "uuuuuuuggggggghhhhhhh"

[@Doug_Edwards99]

I find it interesting how at this point Red and Blue have basically switched places, with Blue now always talking in a white featureless void and Red always chilling in a chair in a cozy study.

[@asexualbert7262]

Only one may sit, and Red has stolen the chair

[@triwizz3542]

23:18 "If you tell a story to explain the world, especially if you tell that story over a thousand years, the story is probably not going to be entirely happy" Love that quote and general take

[@eabha8230]

How I like to see Artemis and Apollo Artemis: the mature twin, won’t joke around and get straight to the point Apollo: the twin that’s wanted in 43 countries

[@damiansaturday6788]

Neat, though Artemis would also be wanted on manslaughter charges So it would be more of a rogue and bard dynamic on the run for slaying and the other for laying

[@brigidtheirish]

@@damiansaturday6788 Ah, she's the mature twin because she makes sure not to leave any witnesses.

[@jam8539]

@@damiansaturday6788 Apollo is wanted for vehicular manslaughter and DUI, Artemis is wanted for first degree murder after somebody insulted her favourite deer

[@nobodys80]

@@damiansaturday6788 you can safely add pederasty to the charges

[@andistansbury4366]

"Straight to the point" as in the the point of her knife.

[@darktigersharkmax4432]

Hera beating up Artemis makes complete sense, she's the wife of Zeus and queen of the gods no matter how cool Artemis' domain of hunting and beasts is she shouldn't stand a chance against Hera. Her losing also doesn't really show any inconsistencies except for maybe her arrogance to even attempt fighting Hera in the first place.

[@ninoska.noe.]

Let’s also not forget that Hera fought with her brothers against the titans and also strategized a revolt against Zeus in which she commanded titans and gods…. I like to think about Hera like an angry mother with a belt or chancla, ready to whoop ass…. And let’s not forget that girly is very vindictive on account of her unfaithful husband

[@anyweighs]

exactly!! but what gets me thinking is WHY would artemis even TRY to fight her 😭 like i don’t understand, a skilled hunter knows when to fight and when not ??? isn’t she supposed to be wise ?? :’)

[@InfinityStar764]

@@anyweighsAthena’s the wise one. Artemis is the one that’s fickle and unpredictable 😂

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Infact. Thus being born as a sincretization of several gods. An Anatolian god of plague, that was also invoked to end them (Aplu. Also Apollos' Mother, Leto has Anatolian origins), a Minoan sea-god of divination (the dolphin is a typical Minoan depiction, and Cretan priests are said to have built the sanctuary of Delphi), a Dorian family/community god (Apellai, Apellaion), and probably several others, Apollo is the god of civilization. Of what makes life worth living, beyond pure survival. The arts, medicine, divination (that, by then, was a way to control the arbitrariness of nature). That's why classical Greeks considered him the most "Greek" of all the gods. Because he was not the god of a force of nature, of a state of mind, or of a particular craft, but of civilization itself. His sister (and it had been a good call to make them siblings) is instead the goddess of anti-civilization. Of hunting, of wild animals, of wild places... and so of the arbitrariness of Nature itself. The fight between Hera and Artemis is not that much a "Worf effect". Artemis can't refuse fighting, it's her nature, but Hera's words are true. "Your father made you a lioness among mortals", but Artemis' powers are shallow if used against an immortal, that doesn't fear beasts or illness. While Apollo wisely declined to fight Poseidon, as the god of sea and earthquakes would have mopped the floor with the one of civilization.

[@joeatwood6905]

Hera is the Queen…”witch”…of righteous indignation and jealous marriage…and you just handed her the excuse to thrash one of her faithless husband’s arrogant, illegitimate brats…. Zeus to weeping Artemis: “Didn’t I tell you to give Hera a wide berth…?”

[@Kelaiah01]

Fun fact: "The Iliad" isn't the only time Hera and Artemis have come to blows. They fought again in "The Dionysiaca" in Book 36. From what I remember, Artemis fired multiple arrows at Hera, but the queen of the gods surrounded herself with clouds that acted like a shield, before hurling a lightning bolt (I forget if Zeus allowed Hera to have one, or if she somehow is able to produce her own) at her stepdaughter and striking her down. Which, to be honest, sounds like a pretty dope scene. XD In fact, I believe in this same chapter, Apollo confronts Poseidon, but I don't know if they actually fought or not.

[@bryguy1502]

Strange how Apollo and Poseidon are repeatedly shown at odds. They confront each other in the Iliad (though Apollo backs down), in the text you mentioned, and they nearly come to blows over Hestia’s hand.

[@raptormage2209]

Meanwhile Zeus " Athena, have you seen my lighting Bolt. ? "

[@Kelaiah01]

@@bryguy1502 Oh, that's right, they did both vie for Hestia! Though I didn't know it almost came to blows. Huh! The only other story I can think of where the two interacted was when they were forced by Zeus to build the walls of Troy.

[@MrMcSpiff]

Most of the gods can do lightning, Zeus just does Big Lightning.

[@Kelaiah01]

@@MrMcSpiff Can they? The only gods I remember ever having power over lightning are Zeus, Hera and Athena, and even Athena's case she was borrowing the bolt from Zeus.

[@jesuschrist9513]

The idea of Artemis growing up as the eldest and a favored kid only to have her life go to shambles once her brother shows innumerous talent and everyone starting to forget about her while pandering to him sounds like a really good book idea

[@hermeticbear]

the little animation of Artemis and Apollo raging at the party. LOVE IT! One of things I love about them is that Apollo is characterized as the singer, holding a lyre, and leading the muses, but in Artemis epithets she is the dancer, leading nymphs in a dance while Apollo and the muses sing.

[@FlippingC]

Artemis and Apollo rock out pins?

[@Totallynotredtail]

This gave me the funniest image of Apollo playing some absolutely eloquent lyre music and then Artemis is just doing the floss

[@salem-01]

@@Totallynotredtailwith her back up dancers

[@shadowldrago]

@@salem-01 Apollo told her it would be funny. He was correct.

[@Totallynotredtail]

@@shadowldrago indeed

[@alexandruulesan7009]

It's nice to see one relatively close family (Artemis, Apollo and their mother, Leto) in the mess that is Olympus The family that murders together stays together

[@peterbraunschweig2779]

Olympus as a whole does a lot of murder tho

[@stabin42]

I never thought of Artemis as a goddess of the uncivilized wild (i dont know why) but im going to think of her now every time a moose wanders into town and menaces people

[@salvadortoscano2534]

Different animal, same objective

[@katze256]

artemis would love m- mooses? meese? moosen? moce? help

[@irishmanfromengland25]

@@katze256 the plural is still "moose" because ojibwe doesn't have grammatically marked plurals.

[@laurakastrup]

As a Scandinavian: she’s the bear/moose/wolf that rolls into town, is generally chill as long as you stay the heck away and eats half your apples because nobody else is going to do it-

[@stabin42]

lol the next time a bear knocks over one of my bee hives I'm just going to sigh and mutter "Come on, Artemis, not again."@@laurakastrup

[@johnblackburn9084]

NGL, the beatdown Hera gave Artemis in the Illiad was so over the top I burst out laughing when I first read it. The English translation I had has Hera outright calling her a "shameless bitch" and sassing her in the midst of it after Artemis talked smack before the first hit.

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

The closest pairing to Artemis and Apollo can be found in the Philippines with Mayari and Apolaki, the children of Bathala (storm god) and fought each other about who would rule the world. Apolaki made his sister blind in one eye and decided that they can share. This myth basically explains why the moon isn't as bright as the sun (and might even explain that whole face in the moon thing).

[@z2yn]

that's a pretty neat one, thanks for sharing that ^^

[@chimera9818]

I feel like that would probably be more susano and Amaterasu related base on the geography and that Philippines aren’t indo European

[@wormmon2006]

What about the triplets of Izangai: Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo?

[@kbye2321]

@@chimera9818Neither are the Japanese. I guess fraternal divine twins of two different genders are just fairly rare.

[@misslangleysoryuisiconic]

Ahh the local version of Artemis and Apollo.. I wanna see red talking about Philippine Mythology

[@DanGamingFan2846]

I've missed these analyses of the origins of the gods. What better way to return than with the ultimate homicidal power siblings. I love how they work together perfectly because they're such opposites from each other. One admired but accepts no one, the other admires all but accepted by none. One represents the moon, slaying, and the wilderness, the other, the sun, medicine, and civilization.

[@watershipup7101]

Agreed

[@genjis5155]

Very true.

[@garnetbird7557]

They're my favorites.

[@andrewfleenor7459]

Apollo is definitely accepted by some. The video mentions Hyacinthus, and I don't think he's the only one.

[@ibrahimtuna375]

Actually if you look at some myth wikis about Apollo, you will see that he actually has a ton of lovers and tons of kids. Also reaching the levels of Poseidon and Zeus. But it seems like the most popular stories about this are about lovers, or not lovers, that ended up died or transformed.

[@khornedbeef7916]

Honestly, Leto seems like one of the most sympathetic Greek gods, what with the whole "desperate but devoted single mother" thing.

[@raptorteam486]

Leto, Rhea, and Gaia belonging the divine mother deity

[@Teackay]

Dionysus: Anyone who tries to kidnap me gets turned into dolphins Apollo: but what if... they're already dolphins

[@likes2drawstuffs]

Dionysus: Then turn em into wine

[@mythandmayhem1134]

Dionysus: If kidnapped, become dolphin. Apollo: Kidnap people as dolphin.

[@Cyanna.Scribe]

I love how Artemis us admired by many yet accept none, while Apollo admires many yet none accepted him (there are exceptions, obvs) Sorta poetic, which is fitting in itself.

[@colt9836]

Well, in Ancient Greece, women were expected to remain virginal until marriage. They were, unfortunately, property of the father, the husband or the brother. Because Artemis swore off marriage, especially for Zeus, her father, she would remain a virgin (parthenos) for all time. Men, on the other hand, were almost expected to have many lovers (sign of fertility) but only be married to a single woman as to ensure the flow of heirs and heritance. This is just another reason why the Gods of mythology are the not the same as the Gods in Ancient Greek religion.

[@thisisnotmynam]

There were a tons who accepted him, just saying. They're just not popular as the ones who rejected him.

[@Cyanna.Scribe]

@@thisisnotmynam that is true lemme do a lil' edit

[@starmaker75]

​​​@@thisisnotmynamI imagine the more rural population that had to hunted their food more worshipped her more and pray to her. Those people didn't write stuff down due to being illiterate and busy surviving. This is just my non scholar prediction

[@leeh4669]

I mean, Apollo was a fboy - he just had really bad luck getting a second date because they kept dying tragically

[@legotechnic1314]

Artemis is a lot of things in Greek myth, but one aspect people tend to overlook is that she was more than once depicted as a daughter that Zeus blatantly spoiled. Callimachus's Hymn to Artemis is a good example of this, as it helps clarify the bit in the Illiad where Hera chastised her and she ran off to cry about it to daddy Zeus. While Athena might have been his favorite, he doted on Artemis, and sometimes that parental dynamic shows through in the stories.

[@starmaker75]

Well give Zues this, he is nice to his daughters(well his god one)

[@gokbay3057]

Yeah, her and Athena definitly seem like his favourites.

[@sonofcronos7831]

Greek myths have a lot of different and interesting things like this one. Is so sad that people only cares about Medusa and Zeus affairs and ignore all the other histories and cool details.

[@Boss_Isaac]

Callimachus' hymn depicts Artemis as a Wee Littl' Lass, just 9 years old, seated atop her Papa's lap and reaching out with her hands to grasp at his beard, and Old Thunder is chuckling up a storm as he says to himself how, _“... when I have children like this, it is worth it to have to deal with Hera's anger.”_

[@Duiker36]

@@starmaker75 Well, Zeus didn't have many mortal daughters. The one I know of off the top of my head is just Helen of Troy, and he showed up for her. Usually Zeus gets claimed by city fathers and male heroes as a lineage, so he doesn't get that many daughters.

[@ThaevynTheFool]

I wonder if the phrase "struck by illness" has anything to do with Apollo and Artemis both being associated with sickness and bows?

[@colt9836]

Apollon and Artemis were considered the reason WHY people died, specifically if it was illness or sudden death. Apollon both protected and "killed" boys and men, as did Artemis with girls and women. You were struck by the twins' bow. Just as Apollon and Artemis can cure and aid those who are sick, they can punish those with plague. Apollon Hekatos and Artemis Hekate, aka "workers from afar."

[@user-ny7hm5vc6z]

I can't be the only one who thinks that Apollo and Artemis dancing around together in Delphi is the cutest thing ever

[@mattes4929]

The way Artemis and Ares are portrayed in the videos I get the feeling both would get along well. Just vibing together, getting drunk and launching arrows and javelins at random. Keeping points on who manged to hit the more important thing or person.

[@dibzybd9741]

Why am I reminded of Legolas and Gimli by this? 😂

[@mrjoe332]

I agree, specially since one thing people forget about Ares is how much he advocate that women should also partake in the fun activity of murder

[@Blue-Maned_Hawk]

This sounds like exactly the type of situation that would, over the course of many years, lead to the buildup of an immensely complicated spreadsheet, understandable only by those who originally created it, tied together in a mazelike nest of functions that takes half a minute to compute anything on even the most powerful of computers.

[@templarw20]

@@mrjoe332 I'm not imagining the Oresteia as Hera and Athena vs Apollo, Ares, and Artemis singing "he had it coming."

[@FellsApprentice]

Artemis and Ares were both super important in Sparta in the contexts for the archetypes of what young boys and girls should seek to emulate.

[@uria3679]

Who hopes Red talks about the Myth where Hera gets beaten up by a Spartan Queen, the Myth about the Chinese Femboy defeating the four dragons, or the myth where a Aztec god was tricked into sleeping with their sister

[@Valery0p5]

Ok you can't say that and not elaborate

[@yourlittleinsomniac5369]

What ​@@Valery0p5said, but about all of them!

[@starmaker75]

Okay the first 2 I'm curious on how a mortal queen beats the queen of gods and the femboy god. However a part of me doesn't wanted to know the sister sleep trick

[@da_shadowwarrior8613]

Ooh, i actually know the third one I think. It was Quetzalcoatl, right?

[@Creticus]

Second one's Nezha. It's more accurate to say he's a kid with an iconic hairstyle that looks pretty feminine to a lot of people. There's a hilarious number of Smite players who have mistaken him for a girl over the years. Third one's Quetzalcoatl. Tezcatlipoca got him 400 rabbits drunk. After which, he's implied to have committed incest, which shamed him so much that he burned himself alive.

[@undergirl04]

I love how Apollo and Artemis's characterizations are basically sunshine boy and his absolutely terrifying older sister, and as an older sister with a little brother myself, this is very on point, as my brother, like Apollo is seen as the sunshine child, and I, like Artemis, am the terrifying older sister who might blow up at any moment! I love the letoides for that reason if nothing else (I love regardless, but if I didn't for everythibg else, I would still love them for that)

[@user-gt5dq1lm3q]

With regards to the fact that Artemis sent a boar to kill Adonis, it could also be interpreted as revenge for Aphrodite’s role in the death of Hippolytus, a son of Theseus and one of the few male hunters that was allowed to join Artemis’s hunt due to his celibacy.

[@user-tp9uw1pr6m]

Sometimes it's Apollo who sent the boar to take revenge on Aphrodite for blinding his son because he watched her bath

[@kgraves119]

Double vengeance.

[@clarehidalgo]

The only reason I remember Ishtar and Shamash are fraternal twins is that Gilgamesh is Shamash's grandson and being like "I can't believe Gilgamesh's Great-aunt is hitting on him"

[@Maria.Annette]

Honestly, Diana's nature as a goddess of darkness, magic, the wild, and the night is SO FREAKING COOL!!! I didn't think she could become anymore awesome but BAM she's also got all of the coolest deific domains. Gotta love a girlboss!

[@salem-01]

Yeah honestly I’ve never been that interested in Diana when not in relation to Artemis but honestly I’m considering doing some more research on her now

[@InfinityStar764]

@@salem-01I’ve been really into Diana for a long time and it always killed me inside the way people are oblivious that she has any differences from Artemis. I love Artemis but she’s like the proto-Diana to me. As in, Diana minus a lot of her coolest features. Artemis wasn’t even actually the moon goddess. DIANA was!!

[@astro-aaron]

Hera stomping on Artemis while shouting ‘Wham’ as Apollo helplessly watches is yet another meme worthy image Red has given up

[@femoman]

The bit about Diana having an association with Witchcraft and triplicity was an interesting tidbit! Suddenly makes sense why in the modern witchcraft community, Diana is so often worshipped as the form of the capital-G Goddess, who is usually also threefold and with lunar associations.

[@ebrannock8139]

Idk why the idea of Artemis just going to her brother's house to party sometimes is so funny to me.

[@claytongriffith8323]

I love the headcanon that they are from the same empregnation but Artemis was born on one island then she and her mom got ran out and literally had to hold Apollo in until they could find another island to have him on. Like imagine pushing one out then having like "Oop hold on"

[@MeTheOneth]

Also, sounds like the kind of thing an ancient Greek man would think a woman could just choose to do.

[@Totallynotredtail]

That's what I thought, I mean Greek myths are weird enough so why not

[@kiraina25]

​@@MeTheOnethI mean, Ace's mom did it.

[@guilhermesavoya2366]

@@MeTheOneth To be fair, we are talking about gods, here. For all we know, Leto literally teleported from one island to the other in a matter of seconds.

[@redwitch12]

@@guilhermesavoya2366 Gods unlock fast travel pretty easily tbh

[@kira-dk2mx]

In Hera's defense, she fought in the Titanomachy and you don't make it out of that war without earning some clout. Hell, I'm pretty sure even Hestia could throw hands if she's pissed off enough.

[@danidm5820]

19:10 "and she turns into a rock about it" is, for some reason, the funniest thing I've heard in a long time, and I had to go back in the video like 2 minutes because I was just stuck thinking about it without realizing.

[@daytimegaming3122]

I think the reason for persephanie’s father changes due to which version of the story you’re reading, is because the main Throughline is that Persephone’s father is the head God. In mycanaen Greece that was Poseidon, in ancient Greece that was Zeus.

[@darkdragoness5]

I remember reading a version of their origin myth that said that Hera was fine with Artemis, who she allowed to be born, and let her stay on Olympus, but she refused Leto to give birth to Apollo. So Leto went to a floating island to give birth to Apollo, which Artemis assisted with.

[@VesperOfRoses]

Another thing about the gods and their portrayal in myths: often these stories are meant to unravel some divine truth about the human condition, with the gods being popular figures as characters that anyone in Greece would know of in metaphor and allegory. Many of them were also simply entertainment using those gods as characters. There was very much a strict separation of the gods as mythological figures and the gods as religious figures in the public consciousnesses of the ancient Greeks: Plato famously thought many of the myths were outright blasphemous for the way they portrayed the gods as petty and fickle rather than how they were commonly worshiped as benevolent protectors of mankind. The myths, as you say at the end, were statements on the realities of life rather than idealized stories.

[@cle-loumehl6172]

Artemis and Apollo seem to embody life itself. You pray Artemis in order for your life to not expire too quickly (wilderness, diseases, child labor, sudden death...), and Apollo in order for you life to not be too bad (knowledge, arts, music, health...). So you fear Artemis and hope for her to protect you, and you adule Apollo and hope for him to bless you.

[@garthst.claire3459]

I will always love the way Leto is described in the Theogony (I didn't originally read it in English, so the translation might vary a bit): Leto, always benevolent to men and immortal gods, friendly from her beginning, gentlest goddess in all of Olympus. Either the Theogony really liked the idea of Leto being a huge nice girl, or so originally also had some dread aspects and this was an attempt to get on her good side. Or maybe on the good side of her two kids who are very well known to shower copious amounts of divine wrath on anybody who disrespects their mother. This also opens up the question; who's the nicer/gentler goddess Hestia or Leto? Or would they just refuse to compete and just hang out and be adorable together?

[@redwitch12]

In this corner: Hestia. In this corner: Leto. Wait, where did they go? Why are they in the third corner? Are... are they just exchanging recipes and squealing over videos of kittens?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Apollo, still in Leto's arms, since he's too young to walk: "That's the snake that disrespected you? I'm going to kill him" Leto: "Wait! It was not that big of..." Apollo: "Too late. He's gone."

[@VivaLaDnDLogs]

I think twins inherently come with endless storytelling possibilities. There's so much you can do with 2 individuals born together, identical or fraternal. My personal favorite is, fittingly, when one twin is born one day, and the other a different day. Suppose one was born 11:57pm and the other 12:02am; they'd be twins with different birthdays!

[@Blue-Maned_Hawk]

If a pair of twins were born at the change of the clocks from daylight savings time, there could be a situation where either the twins were born both a few minutes and about an hour apart or where the second twin was born at an earlier time than the first. Now i'm imagining a programmer trying to optimize something assuming that all pairs of twins are born on the same day and stumbling across problems when something like this happens.

[@alexandriacollins7119]

In African folklore, fraternal twins were always well-received, and would be trained as shamen.

[@kismetkiss]

I have a D&D character in a Greco-Roman inspired setting (Swords of Kos) who is a cleric of BOTH Artemis and Apollo because she's wise enough to know that when the gods ask a mortal to choose between them, it never goes well for the mortal, so Iphagenia just smiled, shrugged, and said "Why not both?"

[@nikogarcia201]

It’s actually pretty brilliant. If there’s any gods who’ll be okay to share their worshippers it be them. Does that mean your cleric get the benefit of both divine domain in gameplay?

[@cabin7slytherpuffempath]

That actually sounds awesome.

[@AdhDnD_Pod]

There’s a statue dedicated towards Artemis specifically relating to her association with childbirth with three heads and a hundred breasts. It’s wild, definitely recommend looking it up!!

[@jkosch]

Are you talking about the Artemis of Ephesos? Which very likely carried over a lot iconography etc. from a local goddess that was syncretized with Artemis (though she also had quite a few aspects more in line with Cybele ).

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

The statue of Artemis Ephesus only has one head. You might be thinking of either the Triformis or the three headed statue of Hecate (also sometimes associated with Artemis). Also, the orbs on the statue of Artemis Ephesus are probably actually supposed to be bees or bee larvae, not breasts.

[@jkosch]

@@Benevolent_Fafnir Could also be bull testicles on the Ephesian Artemis.

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

@@jkosch could be… I think bees makes more sense considering the strong association that site had with bees and hives. The priestess were known as honeybees, and the high priest of Ephesus was known as the King Bee… They also had sacred hives there, and Artemis was strongly associated with Bees.

[@SetSeth-yl6ke]

So THAT'S where SMT got that Artemis Design.

[@Stoneworks]

Will you ever do an episode on how Apollo gave the Simpsons writers the gift of prophecy?

[@patricksloan5304]

Kek

[@mejhdhhicbfshihids652]

Didn’t expect to see you here

[@pedrogrande0889]

Back to the depths with Ye

[@timothymclean]

They don't have the gift of prophecy, they have the gift of "nobody ever talks about how many jokes don't reflect future events".

[@gabebaum6527]

Don't forget to include the internet shitposters

[@andrecarpenter2432]

Great video Riordan’s trial of Apollo actually manages to make Apollo into someone we root for despite all the terrible things he did

[@drippylad3973]

Because he gets post-mythos character development, real one

[@yiklongtay6029]

Red, I feel like your ability to reframe messy stories as a compelling narrative has improved so much. Those last 3 and a half minutes were just perfect for summarizing these two gods.

[@samlee5549]

The idea that Apollo and Artemis started out completely separate and sort of drifted together is FASCINATING. My initial instinct would be that their siblinghood would represent a common origin, two gods that came from the same place, but the fact that they seem to have originated from different areas and only became a pair because of their sort of dual/reflective nature is very, very interesting.

[@sirenianlegend2779]

It reminds me of how in certain fanbases, characters are slammed together and deemed siblings by sheer existence. I wonder if it was a similar Idea to that but at a much larger and more religious scale.

[@AgentofChaos315]

I like how they explain the sun and moon stuff in the Percy Jackson books, Helios and Selene were the gods of the sun and moon before fading away with Apollo and Artemis taking over

[@charliefarmer4365]

In Stephen Fry’s Mythos series, he presents Artemis and Apollo as the original sun and moon gods, then they take Helios and Selene into apprenticeships and they take over. Also I rlly recommend his Mythos series it’s rlly good.

[@Ji-hoonJem]

@@charliefarmer4365Aren’t Helios and Selene… Titans? I feel like that definitely comes before SECOND generation Olympians.

[@charliefarmer4365]

@@Ji-hoonJem maybe they were born after them? Idk.

[@Ji-hoonJem]

@@charliefarmer4365 Sol was a Roman god before Apollo too

[@berengustav7714]

In the 3rd Trials of Apollo book,Lester/Apollo meets the essence or remnants of Helios.

[@Quaether]

6:02 "we've all got dead boyfriends, okay?" cracked me up!🤣🤣

[@kainingyao7873]

In my honest opinion, one of the most important reasons why Artemis and Apollo became twins in Greek mythology despite historically having incredibly different and distinct origins is because they eventually developed traits, attributes, and associations that vastly contrasted each other, essentially making them foils to each other. And the relationship between two characters who contrast each other to the point of being foils is a very fundamental narrative trope indeed.

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

I have been waiting a long time for Apollo and Artemis The two are a classic polar opposite twin duo. Yin and Yang

[@khanhuyen-co7ft]

Especially with their "luck" with love

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

​@@khanhuyen-co7ftwell, one's luck

[@Duiker36]

It continues to be sad that people think yin/yang refers to opposites.

[@BP-dn9nv]

I don't think those were ever gods per say, just a philosophical idea.

[@hersheysbar28]

@@Duiker36 I mean, effectively, they are. They're two halves of the same whole that work in complement to one another, but... complementary literally implies that they're opposite to one another. One side of the coin is opposite to the other even if they're two parts of the same entity.

[@AzurityArts]

Artemis and Apollo jamming it out needs to be an official GIF

[@garlicbred9548]

Love the idea that Artemis and Apollo could be sat there squabbling but if you insult their mother they will both murder you.

[@taiga738]

I found some stuff suggesting that Artemis likely started out as a bear goddess, which eventually turned into her role as a hunting goddess. Apollo I didn't look into as much but I get the impression he started out as a god of art and song since that's his most consistent trait. He probably got his bow to match with Artemis. It's interesting how two unrelated gods just gradually morphed into such a complimentary pair.

[@nothingposted9056]

Also, it's funny that the concept of Apollonean and Dyonisica exist when Apollo already has a dark complimentary counterpart he gets paired with, which is Artemis

[@fai-pe7oq]

Apollo himself is kinda a dark god as is. The Homeric hymns make it out that the other gods are kinda scared of him, and he’s usually portrayed as pretty wrathful.

[@Snow_Fire_Flame]

Apollonian & Dionysian is made up by Nietzsche in the 19th century, so yeah, it's way later. Beats me why he didn't call it the Apollonian & Artemisian - worried about people confusing it with the spring?

[@fai-pe7oq]

@@Snow_Fire_Flame it was def a deliberate choice to pit Apollo vs Dionysus. Just cause the renaissance era emphasized Apollo’s cultural spheres. As the god of arts, music, and light he was associated with order. Dionysus, god of wine and ecstasy, was seen as his opposite and represented chaos. Def has no actual basis in the ancient myths themselves cause Apollo and Dionysus were never shown to be at odds. In fact they were sometimes closely linked. Orphic myths has Apollo putting Dionysus together when he was ripped apart by the titans after his first birth. And in Delphi, during the three months of the year when Apollo was believed to be away from the temple (these were the months when the Oracle was not in session), it was believed that Dionysus would take up residence instead iirc

[@gerstelb]

Counting Clytemnestra and Helen as twins makes sense when Castor and Pollux are, but that’s a weird situation all around: quadruplets with two immortals and two humans.

[@DerplingKing]

Also with Pollux and Helen sharing a father and Castor and Clytemnestra having a different shared father. Just weird all around

[@tinyetoile5503]

Considering Pollux and Helen share the same father, and Castor and Clytemnestra, shouldn't those be considered the sets of twin as opposed to grouping them by gender? I get that such a thing wouldn't have been the greek perception, and the same-gender sibs were probably identical despite their different fathers because divine genetics are bullshit, but from a modern perspective the twin orientation should be different...

[@mateopantoja1711]

Little Artemis just laying there is never something I thought I needed but I’m glad I got

[@kadajsnightqueen]

I’m not sure what I love most: the deep dive through two of my favorite Greek dieties or the headbanging Artemis and Apollo during the credits!

[@CindersSpot]

I like how throughout this, the siblings stay loyal to each other, despite being opposites

[@yt_Ajay_]

Artemis and Apollo rocking out is one of my favourite pieces of art to come out of this channel.

[@tanwenwalters7689]

One interesting thing is we might actually know at least part of where Apollo comes from, Anatolia. For starters, the kind of oracular cult that Apollo so exemplifies possibly came from the near east, Leto's name was Lydian (an Anatolian language) and she was most heavily worshiped in Asia Minor, and most damningly. "Appulianus" was explicitly named as a patron god of Wilusa (Ilios/Troy) in a treaty between king Alaksandu of Wilusa and Muwatalli II, the great king of the Hittites at the time. Which lines up /very/ well with Apollo being a patron god of Troy during the time of Paris (also known as /Alexander/).

[@CopperCanary21]

I absolutely love this God pairing. Artemis being a goddess of staying single out in the woods and Apollo being a god of music and prophesy, wanting to date everyone. 14:23 I love their dynamic of perfect golden boy Apollo and scary mysterious huntress Artemis.

[@templarw20]

Interesting analysis. Especially how rare fraternal, different sex twins are in myths. Also ”You are not QUEEN.” Is a great summary of why you don’t mess with Hera…

[@colt9836]

Lady Hera specifically says to Artemis that, "she [Artemis] should stick to hunting beasts." Then Hermes faces Leto, Artemis' mother, and he is like: "Um, I'm good, just say you bested me." I think it's to convey that no matter how powerful the younger Olympians are, they are still below the older generation. Hera is Queen and Leto is a mistress of Zeus for a reason.

[@templarw20]

@@colt9836 Exactly. It's also why you do NOT want to mess with Aphrodite, because by some interpretations she's not a god, she's a titan.

[@colt9836]

​@@templarw20 No, Aphrodite is a Goddess, she's an Olympian. Hest doesn't say WHEN Aphrodite was born, and Homer says that she is another daughter of Zeus, born from Dione. But most say Aphrodite was foam-born, a daughter of Ouranos and Thalassa. This would make her an aunt of Zeus (Kronos' sister) and great aunt of Ares (her lover). The reason why Aphrodite acts the way she does is because Aphrodite was born of man and men alone, and thus untamed by the patriarchy.

[@templarw20]

@@colt9836 An Olympian, yes. But as you said, Zeus' aunt. So, again, Titan. Just an interesting thought about primal forces vs more human concepts...

[@mangamanzx]

Honestly my parsonal headcanon with Artemis being synchritized with Selene is that Selene's myth with Endymion is where people got the idea that Artemis could fall in love with Orion, they (likelg unintentionally) synchritized Orion and Endymion together in a weird way and suddenly Artemis has at least 1 guy she's interrested in. This is likely untrue but mythologically speaking it might be a fun parallel.

[@sonofcronos7831]

There is no conection between Orion and Endymion. Endymion is actually a explanation for why in the summer the night would be shorter, because Selene would visit her lover Endymion. Is actually a gender-swapper version of a Hitite myth. Orion is a completely different myth. The reason why they were merged is the reason Red explained in the video, she was a very dark and sevage goddess so it makes sense to relate her to the moon.

[@mangamanzx]

@sonofcronos7831 I mean I admitted I was wrong but thanks for giving me that lore tidbit, that's actually pretty nice bit of trivia I didn't know.

[@auroraofclanborealis]

7:56 I like how Artemis is fully ready to absolutely demolish this girl and Athena's like, "no, bad Artemis!"

[@raptorteam486]

“A married woman annoyed about romance and wishes for death? Now this looks like a job for me!”