Miscellaneous Myths: Athens

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But wait! Athens is a real historical city! What myths could possibly apply to this bastion of civilization? Well, besides the whole "being a bastion of civilization" thing, there's a few more…
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"Elevator" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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[@orangesoda3484]

“The most frustrating part of Athenian history is that they are almost as great as they’re constantly insisting they are.” - Blue

[@aidas52]

That goes as well with Rome and China, also USA

[@TheKing-qz9wd]

Every. Single. Nation. Several thousand years and every nation is a wanker with its propaganda.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

@@aidas52 Hate to break it to you, but neither the USA nor China are nearly as great as they say they are. They're both pretty crappy, actually, though I would say the USA is somewhat less so.

[@aidas52]

@@renatocorvaro6924 well maybe it's because they are now..ish

[@vothiminhphuong3130]

@@renatocorvaro6924 If you want to see the coolest stuff of every country, you'll probably have to go back to an older time. Trust me, the countries' olden days are full of awesome myths, ass-kicking generals, and heart-warming stories! But yeah, nowadays, many countries are really crappy. Especially China, it used to be better than this...

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

*awkwardly raises hand* "Ancient Athenians, how does one have, and I quote 'snakelike legs'?"

[@danewardlocke9014]

Atrophied to the point of uselessness. Also possibly covered in scales.

[@DrSnegg]

@@Zeliek I'm all in for snakelike legs if it means I get a cool butt

[@grundierungtaglich6241]

people back then referred to reptiles as snakes not matter what

[@SophiaAstatine]

Exactly the question I was looking for

[@tylercoon1791]

In that each leg was its own snake

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

Athena is the goddess of "fight smarter, not harder"

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

Meanwhile, Ares is like "More war is more war!"

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

Athena/Minerva, the Greek/Roman Sun Tzu

[@VeraMetafr9]

True

[@carlosroo5460]

Clearly her Saints didn't get the memo.

[@operleutnant7235]

Athena is like a rapier, elegant and precise Ares is like a sledgehammer, big, strong, and hits like a truck

[@bofdm]

"If I had a nickel for every ancient Greek city founded by a semi-deific snake person, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't much but it's weird that it happened twice." -Red Doofenshmirtz

[@starsgears9200]

If you want to go to China, you can have a few dollars worth of nickels...

[@albertamalachi3560]

You get stories like that in Africa, the Mid East, India, East Asia, and South East Asia. Then there's stories like the Melusine in Britain, and some places in France. It's quite widespread.

[@srijanumesh5355]

@@albertamalachi3560 I only know of India, where the snake people (called Nagas) have secret high tech cities hidden underwater or invisible , and also sometimes give random lost children a sweet which gives them the stregnth of 10,000 elephants. It works out ... mostly. Oh and they have a gem that can revive the dead

[@blubistheword]

😂😂😂

[@bellanutella7091]

@@srijanumesh5355 joline joline joline

[@Dragongirl764]

So, Athens is that kid who was average in high school then became a CEO who now feels like they have to have an inspirational childhood to really drive home how successful they are

[@dootdoot3713]

Wow that’s actually pretty spot on!

[@jaydenklaus]

That sounds about right.

[@barleysixseventwo6665]

When we were a small city the other states gave us a small load of a million drachma, and we used it to create a world-class navy!

[@Worm-revolver]

Then they started a fight with everyone at the company to show how powerful they are, ending with them getting replaced by the Spartans.

[@Dragongirl764]

@@Worm-revolver who everyone thought was a giant d-bag but then turned out to be pretty alright. Sure, they’re pro-military but they’re also really cool about homosexuality and equality.

[@thebeavpercabethftw9604]

In Percy Jackson, "Poseidon and Athena working together to make the Chariot" basically meant she created the thing people stand in and he supplied the horses.

[@eaglest0554]

Athena: "I made this cool vehicle thing to make getting around faster and easier, now how to actually power it..." Poseidon: "Boom, horse.

[@silvergir89]

Was this before or after Artemis and Apollo became gods of the moon and the sun respectively?

[@ericale9700]

@@silvergir89 as a general rule apollo and artemis are much younger than athena and poseidon, so probably?

[@fisch37]

@@ericale9700 + Helios had a chariot I believe

[@MogofWar]

God of the sea.... makes horses for traversing land... seems legit.

[@istolethispfpfromreddit]

Athens: "... And we're like, super cool and dope, just read this totally true story about our origins!" Sparta: "Did I?" Athens: "Did you what?" Sparta: *"Did I ask?"*

[@despinasgarden.4100]

And that's pretty munch why Sparta and Athens hated eachother, Athens probably won't shut up about how cool they are and Sparta just wants them to shut up.

[@beccag2758]

This guy I knew had drunk a lot of Athenian kool aid and would always insist Athens was the best Ancient Greek city state, don’t bother with the rest. Whenever that happened, I would just consistently remind him that for about 50% of Ancient Greece (the women), Sparta was the best bet because they weren’t _totally_ treated as property and were semi respected. Of course, so much of Ancient Greece was crappy in other ways (such as a lot of slave trade) that I’d argue none of the city states were all that great by modern standards but that’s beside the point Edit: upon reading several comments, I think my new view on Ancient Greece is “interesting to study, but never a place I’d ever want to live. Ever.”

[@TheDJman248]

@@beccag2758 While I agree that Sparta was the most progressive when it came to how women were treated...I sure would NOT call Sparta the best bet on that alone. Despite that one positive (among a few others, of course), they had their own laundry list of issues that basically made them as bad as their Ancient Greek cohabitators (tossing "weak" babies down a pit comes to mind... ).

[@xNephilimxXx]

@@beccag2758 Nah , Sparta is as bad as Athens was. Forced propaganda, systemic subjugation of local people, forced military servitude with no pay or owning (the Homoi class, aka equals, aka citizens were given blots of land to cultivate with slaves and managed by the lady of the house while the man stayed mostly in barracks. The couples rarely met during war times, which with Sparta..that's constant. ) annihilation of opposition no matter what. .... Essentially, Sparta is essentially the ancient version of communist ussr whereas Athens is pretty much USA lmfao If I were to name a "best ancient Greek state "...then honestly, that would be Philip's Pella in Macedonia.

[@loneronin6813]

That comment reminds me of a story about a Spartan King who was being threatened by another King. (I forget which one.) The king looking to encroach on Spartan territory had a message sent saying (more or less), "Give me all of your stuff." The Spartan king sent a message back with one word. "No." Clearly very dissatisfied with this response and feeling more than a bit insulted, the challenger sent another letter to the King of Sparta (again, paraphrasing heavily), "Very well, if I reach your gates it will be as your conqueror." The Spartan king then sent back another one letter response. It said, "If."

[@lazulenoc6863]

Snakes when they crop up in religions: "I am... inevitable." Seriously though, they pop up more often then the idea of a god.

[@imagoat273]

Sometimes they are the god

[@CLNCJD94]

When you think about it though, on nearly every continent there are venomous snakes that have been deeply ingrained into our ancestors minds as bad because they can kill a person in one bite. Couple that with the fact that snakes swallow their prey whole and you’ve got yourself a great villain to peace together in religions.

[@psychologymajorptsd62]

Because snakes are the best. Having an association with knowledge (in some way) in most cultures it makes sense that humans would include them in their religions.

[@blarg2429]

@Alejandro Peña Gorbe This is also why able-bodied people are weird about wheelchairs sometimes.

[@irradiatedslagheap7933]

@@imagoat273 I once read someone's D&D campaign in which the snake was a god. They were Snake Jesus, and they died for your ssinsss. Bad joke, I'm sorry, I'll leave.

[@GhoulyRooly]

General Rule: Everything Always Comes Back To Snakes At Some Point.

[@madkoala2130]

Now we can say that greece is ruled by Snake people

[@ArchArturo]

*Reptilian people/hollow Earth conspiracy theories intensify *

[@TheKing-qz9wd]

Yeah.

[@rexy_mirror1225]

🐍🦀

[@merrittanimation7721]

*The Journey of Ra intensifies*

[@whatgsaid]

“Guys, we need to convince everyone that we’re cool and important now.” “Someone wrote this random fanfic about Athena and Poseidon and our city that’s kinda neat.” “MAKE IT CANON.”

[@shy_guyy0]

1.3k and no replies? Lemme fix that rq-

[@katcyer26]

* two :p

[@annablaze4577]

On it

[@kdubbsthe3rd]

I've come to appreciate how often Red and Blue's chosen subjects overlap... or are sometime practically interchangable.

[@AxxLAfriku]

I am being humble when I am telling you that I am the most powerful strongest coolest smartest most famous greatest funniest Y*uTub3r of all time! That's the reason I have multiple girlfriends and I show them off on my ch*nnel all the time! Bye bye ken

[@JDM-is-my-name]

True, lol

[@MaddeningFly]

"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."

[@alanepithet2931]

History tends to happen where people gather. The beliefs and cultures that form a mythology tend to collect where people gather. The fact that they would co-mingle, occasionally borrow eachother's hats, and make vague deprecating jokes about eachother behind the other's back, is as inevitable is it is for any pair of roommates.

[@mokarokas-1727]

@@AxxLAfriku - The only thing that makes people hate Germans more than you is WW2.

[@rickkcir2151]

Ancient Athenian scholars: “history will be kind to me, for I intend to write it”

[@pokimanefartcompilation]

I can only imagine the meme where Obama puts a medal around himself

[@kitsunefirefox1986]

Ancient Athenian scholars Winston Churchill Michael Scott

[@archive881]

I have to say that really does sound like an actual quote. 🤨

[@AlbertaGeek]

Joke's on them: idiots today believe Atlantis was real and much more advanced than Athens then or even us now.

[@SamForShort]

That line goes unresonably hard

[@phanost13]

Sneks: settling down, making homes for themselves Gods: "It's free real estate"

[@Duiker36]

There's an RPG called "Scion". In the second edition, there's a supplement called Dragon. It's about how the gods basically showed up one day and gaslit the dragons I mean snakes into being the villains of almost every story.

[@blarg2429]

@@Duiker36 There's a difference between lying and gaslighting. Propaganda such as you're describing is dishonest, but isn't the specific kind of dishonesty that term refers to. Unless you mean that the gods fooled the dragons into villainy by manipulating them into not trusting their own understanding of what events had unfolded and why; lying to non-dragons _about_ dragons doesn't count.

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

Unless your Jourmungand of norse... Then the gods just Yeet you into earth's ocean and you decide your time is better spent chasing your tail.

[@marwick1413]

@@craytherlaygaming2852 'of norse' I see what you did there.

[@phoebusapollo8365]

I mean, you *are* a god, you’re the one pulling strings and keeping the world in order from collapsing. I think you deserve some real estate.

[@TheRoomforImprovement]

“ they’re so cute when they’re power-hungry.” That sounds like something Zeus would say.

[@Buby39]

Athena:makes a tree All of Athens: *I’LL TAKE YOUR ENTIRE STOCK*

[@icarue993]

a tree that at least produces some sort of fruit vs a salt water geizer... which you can't drink from... because salt (and a horse!). Yeah, I would have giving it to Athena. (And possibly because athens sounds cooler than poseidopolis)

[@romeersharma5423]

Poseidon: Ensures that Athens will be comparable to Venice in trade Athenians: lol who cares?

[@valeforyoru]

Poseidon: "pfff simps"

[@romeersharma5423]

@@valeforyoru are you sure about that?

[@supersparerib]

Basulegion is basculegio or bariosculegion Change my mins

[@elementsfanfics3859]

Concept: Athena and Poseidon were still angry with each other after this whole thing, so Zeus forced them to work together with the Sneeple King guy to invent the chariot. Sneeple King is credited with the invention because Athena and Poseidon were too busy arguing the entire time.

[@vladimirenlow4388]

So, basically 80% of middle and high school group projects.

[@RogelioALoya]

Athena: the wheel should be round so it can actually, you know, MOVE Poseidon: NO HEXAGONS ARE COOLER THAN JUST BORING CIRCLES! The king: if these are the gods that humanity looks up to then humans won’t go 2 seconds before going extinct

[@leeh4669]

The king: Hey, technically-mom, can you stop fighting with double-great-uncle Poseidon and help me put this together? No? *sigh* At least it’s better than trying to play Battleship…

[@worthlesshuman5041]

@@leeh4669 Battleship is actually a great choice of game because it's a tactical strategy game with an ocean setting

[@pridelander06]

Poseidon after Athena is chosen: "Fine, I'll make my own ancient city! With crystals! And mechanical sea creatures!" *makes Atlantis*

[@kereminde]

Athena: "Oooh, that's neat... hey Poseidon..." Poseidon: "Don't." Athena: "Wouldn't it be terrible if..." Poseidon: "Don't do it, niece." Athena: "Do you want to play a war- I mean a game?" Poseidon: "See, this is why I don't like you."

[@Zeliek]

The version I knew from school in Greece is that that was Poseidon was actually proposing. Make a Atlantis the way we think Atlantis survived (water-serpent people and all). The original Atlantis myth doesn't mention it surviving underwater. Interesting how this part of the Athens naming myht ended up grafted in the Atlantis myth.

[@pokimanefartcompilation]

Milo Thatch wants to know your location

[@anthony9808]

my little brother walked in while I was watching this and asked "Is that the owl lady?" referring to red. Which can only mean that Red has the same energy as Eda from the owl house

[@brianroberts783]

In fact, the "owl lady" in this episode would more accurately be Athena, since owls were her sacred animal.

[@mohammedyousef4005]

@@brianroberts783 that would explain a lot

[@snowyowl235]

@@brianroberts783 Honestly, Red is so similar to the way she depicts Athena that it can go both ways.

[@4wheal]

@@brianroberts783 Well only the little owl was Athena symbol Ares actually had 2 spices of owls linked with him.

[@brianroberts783]

@@4wheal, I didn't know that, thanks! Still, I don't think anyone is calling Ares a lady, so the joke still stands.

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

Ah yes Athens a myth to scare all young spartans like the boogeyman

[@thornangel16]

Ah, nothing is scarier to the Ancient Spartans than a bunch of nerdy democrats with boats and rivaling imperialistic ambitions.

[@dylantennant6594]

Persia: That's what we were, once. (Xerxes is being sad and looking out a window).

[@camblycreeper7999]

They talk too much. That's not great. Could be doing crime instead.

[@stanisawzokiewski707]

Its civil war!

[@marocat4749]

@@thornangel16 True!

[@nahte123456]

The thing I find retroactively funny is that, if Poseidon's spring was just a never ending flow of water, today that would be insanely more practical then a single tree. Like just for hydro-power alone.

[@Zeliek]

Olives and their oil are even to this day worth their weight in gold. It was like salt which wasn't easy to came by and made everything taste better thus perishable meaning it made it a high trade-able commodity.

[@nahte123456]

@@Zeliek True but it was also just a single sapling, even if we are talking it can magically make saplings on it's own and grow super fast, which I don't think I've heard in any retellings but I'd believe, it'd still take years to get a stable flow of goods going, not to mention one bad swarm of bugs or storm can destroy them, while the spring is just a hole in the ground.

[@StarshadowMelody]

@@nahte123456 Side note: In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit.

[@TobiasFangorIsntCis]

@@nahte123456 I'm pretty sure it usually says this was the *invention* of olive trees? And that's why it was so useful?

[@merrittanimation7721]

Other Greek Cities: "Oh yeah we were founded by some great hero-" Athens: "WE HAD THAT AND WERE ALSO CLAIMED BY THE GODS THEMSELVES"

[@dylantennant6594]

Sparta: We relize the virtue of strenght, honor and bravery on the battlefield. That is why our brave king Leo- Athens: Folly. We athenians put our strength in the wall, the wooden wall. Themistocles stopped the persian navy with his blockade. Showing how much better we are, we are the god. The golden god! Be gone vile man be gone from me! (If it wasn't clear, I see Greece as the Dennis Reynolds of Greek cities, over sexed, over built and kind of weak in actual times of crisis).

[@JoshtheOverlander]

"And that's a good thing...wHY??"

[@Duiker36]

@@JoshtheOverlander Right? Look what happened to Thebes.

[@tonyalighieri6613]

Unrelated to the comment, but it’s lovely to run into you after enjoying your worldbuilding cartoons!

[@merrittanimation7721]

@@tonyalighieri6613 Thank you

[@SeraphimCramer]

What's ironic is the saltwater from the spring Poseidon made could've been used to brine the olives from Athena's tree, making the two gifts symbiotically tied to each other.

[@juliandacosta6841]

Kind of like the horse and the chariot

[@Danikoshii]

So Athens is basically that one kid in middle school who think's they're cool and when a single cool thing happens to them they just won't shut up about it for weeks

[@369destroyer]

Only they didn't shut up for multiple generations

[@ChrisSakk]

Yeah if you call democrasy, an empire and basicly all of what is phylosophy, math, science and much much more: "One cool thing", then yes you're right

[@369destroyer]

@@ChrisSakk Considering we use the ARABIC numeral system I think we owe Math more to the middle east

[@ChrisSakk]

@@369destroyer yeah but only the numbers though. If you wanna now what I mean search Pythagoras and you'll see only a portion of the Greek contribution to math. Even the word math is Greek as it comes from Μαθηματικά the Greek word, much like most of the subjects you're taught

[@xLollipopx]

@@ChrisSakk Turns out the Babylonians already had the concept of the Pythagorean theorem thousands of years before Pythagoras. So yes we owe math to the middle east.

[@ryuuronin9852]

"Hubris is dangerous, so decrees the best city EVAR!" -Athens

[@marseldagistani1989]

Sparta in the Peloponnesian war: Be careful old man, You might just bite it.

[@riven5677]

@@marseldagistani1989 I thought Sparta was older Athens

[@doubleoof7907]

tbf back then hubris was less "I'm the best" and more "I'm better than the gods"

[@Watchmanskey]

@@marseldagistani1989 Meh. The Spartans only managed to hold Athens for a year after the war anyway

[@masterofchaos7282]

My guess as to why Poseidon also occasionally gets some credit for the creation of the chariot is that he’s associated with horses (for some reason) and saying the first chariot ever made was the combination of the craftsmanship of Athena and Poseidon’s personally breed horses gives it a bit more of an epic mythical vibe. Also it’s kind of a nice story if he’s involved since it involves 2 Olympians who don’t really like each other working together for something that isn’t murder or sex related.

[@nisheetgarg9800]

Like @B van Lint, I think that PJO is the one that started that shared creation of the Chariot being a thing in pop culture...? Probably. *shrugs*

[@sanjeethmahendrakar]

@@nisheetgarg9800 considering how the book chooses to be a bit vague about it I'd like to think the Chariot is a technicality of them working together. Poseidon created horse sure but they are kinda inconvenient especially for carrying multiple people/items. Athena then comes along and make an attachment to the horse in the form of a chariot which basically improves upon Poseidon's idea. She basically one upped him.

[@Xalerdane]

Ancient Greek logic: “The whitecaps on waves look kinda like horses, so _clearly_ this means that horses were created by the God of the Seas!”

[@IchHassePasswoerter]

The association of horses with Poseidon probably comes from his title as earthshaker. If you've ever witnessed a cavalry charge, it becomes obvious why.

[@redwitch12]

@@sanjeethmahendrakar Poseidon: "I made a cool thing!" Athena: "I made a COOLER thing." Poseidon: "No you didn't. But what happens if we stick them together?" Athena: "I don't know, let's find out." It's like two kids who hate each other working on a team project and sort of accidentally turning out a really great result once their efforts are combined.

[@Karonis124]

“‘Everyone knows Athens is the coolest”said Athens’ may be the most ancient Athenian phrase ever.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

"Can't believe all my mythological conspiracy theorying finally led me to friggin' snake people" That one's going in the OSP Out of Context video

[@Dyneamaeus]

Isn't it interesting that the sheer visceral 'otherness' of reptiles, particularly serpents, has made them into major mythological figures in basically every culture? As far back as we have knowledge we've been fascinated and repulsed in equal measure.

[@brianroberts783]

This is also why people love dinosaurs. They're scientifically proven primordial monsters.

[@hailghidorah2536]

Athens saw itself as the shining city on the hill In truth, it was on the hill, but more on base of it, and it wasn’t really glowing, more just painted bright lime.

[@omega1575]

I think Athens IS the hill, the lime green part is just not talked about and it just looks like a hill. The rest of the city was too high to be reached so no one painted

[@X-Ternal]

Okay I live in Athens and the city actually has quite a few hills but this is the most accurate thing I've ever heard

[@DinsRune]

As icky as his origins are, Erechtheus becoming an inventor king and building a big statue of his kinda-mom is sweet, as is the implication Athena still raised him well enough for him to build a statue of her.

[@kingsadvisor18]

Just when I'm about to start a Mythic Odyssey of Theros campaign, OSP descends from the heavens with *Inspiration*

[@dsargus3]

Nice! This should reall give you an *Advantage* then ;)

[@FionaAnimatesBagels]

roll for god to be assaulted by. it's a DC of ten million for it not to be zeus

[@camblycreeper7999]

If only as I decide to run House of Lament, I could be blessed with something related to it... At least I have Graham Plowman's Call of Cthulhu Playlist. Edit: Nevermind: Peter Gundry's new Album should cover it

[@hectorrodriguezgonzalez8938]

Snecssss

[@royalhydra9790]

I’d be careful, all of athens bs might give you *Disadvantage* on your work

[@atreides213]

I was always struck by how the ancient Athenian philosophers, could be so incredibly insightful one moment, and the next moment start a rambling Socratic dialogue that eventually ends on the conclusion that the absolute best possible existence just so happens to be that of a philosopher living in specifically Athens.

[@olidiangelo]

this story is by far my favorite because i think the art for this would be just ✨

[@MayaParker01]

Red: his birth story is frankly really gross Me: whaaaaaat??? A gross Ancient Greek birth story??? Who could’ve foreseen this????

[@rami_ungar_writer]

The original founding myth with the half dragon kid seems way cooler to me than Athena and Poseidon butting heads.

[@Mr.Faust3]

that’s just Wednesday for the Olympians

[@Nora_the_Seedrian]

(When Red says the snake behind Athena's shield is Erechtheus) My brain- "Protec teh snek boi..."

[@shinekitten7669]

protecc the snecc

[@goroakechi6126]

Athens: we were fought over by two gods! Thebes and Sparta: we got to kick Troy off the map! Macedonia: we got this prince, see-

[@anonymousfellow8879]

Alexander the *mmm mehhh ehhh ehh ehh ehhh!!*

[@claytondavis6835]

Alexander the Paint me like a Persian king

[@TheEireika]

Greece: stop or I'll veto you from joining European Union. Macedonia: ok? Greece: vetoes anyway

[@fantasyshadows3207]

Alexander the Got-Banned-From-the-EU-due-to- *mumbling scribbled writting* -Flat-Earth-Issues

[@themancantfindaname7589]

nobody expect the trojan/roman inquisition

[@steeltitan6691]

So, the original founding myth of Athens was that Athena's adopted snake son named it after his mom?

[@greyscaleanon7551]

Despite how little there is about him, he still sounds like a better founder-hero than Theseus.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

​@greyscaleanon7551 That's not a high bar to clear. Right Ariadne, Helen, and Hippolotus?

[@person14876]

Kinda amazed you didn’t cover this till now

[@ullabritta8758]

she suffers from something called pRoCrAsTiNaTiOn

[@Dogdude446]

I say the same

[@shankartilekar2648]

Same

[@Ssstone3.14]

I saw the notification and thought hang on, didn't she do this already? Wait... no she hasn't

[@diothekiid]

Been a long time coming

[@LittleMissRequiem]

In another version of the Athena/Poseidon myth, Cecrops quickly realizes that choosing between Athena and Poseidon would inevitably result in one of the two getting mad at him. So instead, he decides to leave it up to a popular vote among the citizens of Cecropia, in hopes that at least that way he won’t directly be pissing them off. By all accounts he succeeded in avoiding the wrath of the gods, but as for the rest of the city, things started to get a little complicated. All of the men in the city voted for Poseidon, while all of the women voted for Athena. Since there were more women than men in Cecropia at the time, Athena won, and Cecropia was renamed Athens in her honor. However, Poseidon got all butthurt and flooded the city and surrounding areas. In order to appease Poseidon, the women of Athens had to be punished; from that point on, the Athenian women could no longer vote, pass on their names to their children, or even have any official claim to Athenian citizenship. As much of a bummer as that was for the women of Athens, the punishment did successfully get Poseidon to chill out, and he let Athens keep his original gift (near which a temple in Poseidon’s honor was later erected). A similar version to this is that, instead of having the citizens of Cecropia take part in the vote, Athena and Poseidon left the decision up to their fellow Olympians. Zeus and Hades both abstained, and out of everyone left over, all of the male gods (Ares, Hephaestus, Hermes, and Dionysus) voted for Poseidon, while all of the goddesses (Hera, Demeter, Artemis, Aphrodite, and Hestia) voted for Athena. This made the final tally 5-4 in Athena’s favor, though Poseidon still got butthurt and the women of Athens were still punished as previously noted.

[@greyscaleanon7551]

Hey! An actual reason for why a city named after a female deity was so misogynistic in it's day-to-day operations!

[@adamwu4565]

@@greyscaleanon7551 Trust the Athenians to retcon an explanation for their inherent misogyny into their own invented foundation myth....

[@sonofcronos7831]

​@@greyscaleanon7551that story is not sourced anywhere. It appears to be a modern invention. There was no voting in the time of Cecrops, since Athens in the bronze age (the mythological age) had nothing to do with classical age. The choice was entire in Cecrops, the King.

[@samiai8905]

The pins look so good! You know a lot of the popular misinterpretations of these myths can be traced back to Percy Jackson. They probably did exist before but that series really made it seem like common knowledge. The teamwork on the chariot and Hestia abdicating for Dionysus were stuff I definitely learned from that series

[@merrittanimation7721]

I think that's more just your perspective since those are takes certainly seen in books published long before Percy Jackson. Like the D'Aulaires Book of Greek Myths as a random example for the latter take.

[@brianroberts783]

@@merrittanimation7721, that's pretty much what they said. These stories existed before, and were even present in relatively common books, but PJO made them popular. Just because you and I read D'Aulaire's books as kids doesn't mean everyone has heard of them.

[@merrittanimation7721]

@@brianroberts783 My point was that PJO didn’t popularize them, it only seemed that way to this person because that’s what introduced them to it.

[@papageno88]

You know, Red probably just get a PhD in mythology now considering that she's already done half a dissertation on this channel.

[@aenorist2431]

3:10 I love the way you used that triumphant bit of Nightwish there, right in between the more classical takes. Symphonic metal being all symphonic XD

[@dezopenguin9649]

I'm still working my brain around the concept that Gaia gave the child to Athena, and Athena, in turn, was such a good adoptive mom to the kid who managed to get conceived with another woman during the process of someone trying to rape her (Athena), that said kid founded a city and immediately raised a giant statue to said mom. That level of Grade A, I-am-good-peopleness just goes to further demonstrate how much Ovid can get bent.

[@leeh4669]

In some stories he’s Athena and Hephaestus’ bio-kid (conceived from his semen and her sweat on a handkerchief of all things) but was gestated and birthed by Gaia. Another triple-parent Athenian leader! (sorry Theseus, you’re not special)

[@phastinemoon]

Personally, I’d be very surprised if Athena wasn’t a good adoptive mother, just for the fact that, being the Goddess of wisdom and the aspects of war that are considered “noble” - in effect, she’s probably also the Goddess of such tropes as “A Father to His Men” or “Fire-Forged Companions”, and if we also remember that, in Greek philosophy, familial piety and compassion were considered virtues you could ONLY possess if you were wise (funny enough, why WOMEN were thought to not actually have real feelings or be truly capable of LOVE, of all things, because they “don’t have the capacity for reason) … uh, yeah - Athena being a good parent seems totally in character

[@SivakAurak]

I read a version where Hephaestus requested Athenas hand in marriage in return for freeing Hera from her throne, and Posiedon was still salty (hehe) about Athens so he convinces Zeus that there's no need to ask Athena before deciding, after all arranged marriages are the style at the time. So after the Hephaestus gets the "No Horny" bonk and Athena once again has to be the Responsible Big Sister of the pantheon for Erichthonius, Heph is just bitter and angry and demands Aphrodite so that at least he has the hottest goddess for his wife. The Olympians all say "Sure, whatever" and Aphrodite just continues to bang Ares because it's not like she agreed to this any more than Athena did.

[@socksinsoda9517]

1:50 "In some versions having warped/snake like legs" Snakes in Greece: 🐍 🦵🦵

[@SophiaAstatine]

Perfection

[@zanderclark1461]

This erechtheus dude seems pretty neat honestly. Wild that a monster-human hybrid has a role in this story beyond being killed by theseus.

[@greytheloveabledragon8514]

Athena is so Adorable at 4:43

[@amirsyamsyul6412]

Just ordered these last night. Was confused at first, then realized the next day was Friday.

[@RomLoneWolf23]

And Python is why the Oracle of Delphi is also called "The Pythia."

[@kindadumb916]

It’s crazy how Greeks fail to follow their own morals; they write down in their own myths explaining why having too much pride will cause your downfall yet most Greek cities during history let..pride be their downfall

[@georgethompson1460]

Maybe thats why it had to be in ALL the myths, they were all just THAT prideful.

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

Hypocritical I'm guessing Also, remember what blue said of their awareness in his Aristophanes video???

[@joemerl1145]

It wouldn't be in so many myths if it wasn't such an issue in their culture, I guess. (Though it's really an issue in _every_ culture, let's be honest.)

[@Zeliek]

Yeah but also like huge armies...

[@Kitty-be5fp]

Red: They were born from it, molded by it. They didn't see anything that wasn't Athens until they weren't already a man, by then it was nothing to them but nowhere near as cool as Athens! Me: I understood that (Bane) reference.

[@elitegamer9310]

Athenians: *Nerds who think they're the best.* Spartans: *Jocks who know they're the best.*

[@georgethompson1460]

Macedonians: the guy who grows up to become a billionaire.

[@dinglerofl4784]

*laughs in latin*

[@gothnerd887]

So Athenians are the Deckers from Saints Row

[@TheDJman248]

The irony being, the spartans went out with a whimper. Life is funny like that sometimes.

[@ChrisSakk]

Just so you know the Spartans did not only hate democrasy but When they conquered Athens the change the goverment to olygarchy. I'm Greek so I know

[@aconcernedcommissar6261]

Considering the track record, I'm surprised Posideon didn't make a ruler fall in love with that Olive Tree

[@daviddaugherty2816]

I'm imagining he had a front row seat to Pasiphae and the Creten Bull and was so disgusted he swore never to do _that_ again.

[@emlee1771]

I’m so stoked… to see if Blue interrupts this episode

[@emlee1771]

SPOILERS: Blue does not, in fact, interrupt this episode… it’s still a blast

[@nisheetgarg9800]

Welp, he didn't. Guess he's doing something really awesome offscreen.

[@hailghidorah2536]

No, because Red entered stealth mode

[@cg2650]

Thank goodness Erechtheus just was a Serpent King and never called himself Serpent King. Otherwise he'd be chilling under the mountain with Johnny Snake-Shoulders

[@alexbees]

If blue isn't in this one i imagine he's busy fighting ninjas, trying to get in it

[@SlyScribeV]

For the past few months I've been wondering just how Athena's patron city seemed so prideful and cocky and such an eyeroll at times. How could Athena allow HER city to become what it was under her influence. Then it hit me... Maybe they did follow her in her footsteps. Maybe she's more like them than we would have thought. Also... Erikthonius is her son. I can't see it any other way.

[@dylanjwagner]

Athens touted their horn so loudly that history has echoed it, but then you look closer and it’s… kind of a bad tune.

[@dleopardxlswondrousmusings9053]

Regardless of their quality in the act, their actions were heard. We now know the tool and it’s player, and we are no longer allured.

[@zachfausett3693]

I have to say I love the perfect usage of Nightwish's Ghost Love Score @ 3:03

[@decodelifehacker3446]

I'm now imagining Athena throwing Hephaestus out of his wheel chair and just waking around him to wreck his shop

[@purplehaze2358]

4:17 If anyone’s wondering, the music used in the background is _United We Stand, Divided We Fall_ by Two Steps From Hell.

[@taxinvasion260]

"Everybody wants to rule the world" And this is Red's second time covering this song I guess the first attempt at world domination didn't go so well for OSP...

[@mini3mayhem]

Ya know what. I’m not even surprised at this point. Of course Athens made an entirely new origin story, OF COURSE

[@lucideandre]

Makes me wonder if the snakes being bad guys in Greek Mythology, but seemingly having used to be good guys, has to do with the tradition that existed in the Middle East of creating myths where one’s god or gods defeated the preceding civilization’s god or gods to symbolize conquest, which also happened to often feature turning the previous gods into snakes (see Yahweh defeating Leviathan)

[@amythistowo8377]

I just want to say, Red's singing at the end. _Beautiful._

[@slightlyembittered]

So the whole "Sneople" conspiracy theory actually has historical precedent? Great job with the video.

[@automaticmattywhack1470]

@2:15 The "icky part of the process" is Hephaestus ejaculatued on Athena's thigh while he was trying to "assault" her. She wiped it off and threw it onto the ground. That's how Gaia was impregnated.

[@vioname]

When I first saw the title I thought “Wait… isn’t Athens a real place? My whole life is a lie…”

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

2:00 So haphaestus is on the ulgier side and his legs don't work, but he's the greatest badass inventor and forgesmith of all time, huh? What a nerd's icon! He probably has a cool robotic mobility chair, maybe one that hovers and flies.

[@zenebean]

The Sneople conspiracy hole is truly a deep one

[@SassyandalwaysClassy]

I think my favorite Greek founding city myth is probably Thebes. Idk I just think it’s cool to have your founding Royal family be a Phoenician hero like Cadmus and a minor Goddess in Harmonia. And how they would end up the grandparents of Dionysus

[@bellanutella7091]

Yeah I thought that love story was so quaint and cute

[@FurbytheFlareon]

Red, has anyone ever told you that you have a goddess voice for singing? :D Also, your guitar playing is so amazing, and I wish there was a way for me to listen to a whole playlist of all your guitar covers.

[@therongjr]

1:50 - Snake-like legs, Red? You wanna think about that a little more? 😅

[@emilybarclay8831]

Snake-like, as in legs that look like snakes themselves. Not legs that look like snake-legs

[@jerichtandoc7789]

You know, given how much religion and mythology this channel covers, I'm surprised by the lack of SMT stuff since they also do games.

[@darshgoswami496]

I was thinking the same thing

[@nidohime6233]

Maybe they do something when Shin Megami Tensei V comes out. Oh wait, Mara is there. Yeah...

[@dragatus]

"Oh, I know that story." *7 minutes later* "Well, didn't know THAT story."

[@thekenyonsquad5672]

I read this as "Miscellaneous Myths: Athena" and got really excited for another half hour long video about the legends of one god. was a little confused when I saw it was only 6-7 minutes.

[@Alice-gr1kb]

omg me too. this one was still great tho

[@mohammedyousef4005]

Same

[@DeOneTrueSage]

I wish one day OSP makes a timeline of the events for the Greeks Myths that starts from Chaos of whoever was there first to whenever it ends.

[@Zeliek]

Not possible all those myths are full of plot-holes from being retold/adding things/ being lost in time and generally not meant to make actual sense as a timeline. Easy example the mortal born Hercules being a god in Titanomachia (or the Gigantomachia) that takes place before the creation of humans (that have like 4 or 5 creation myths).

[@jessnalulila5552]

@@Zeliek Heracles fought against the giants

[@Tulipia5]

Huh... The most popular version of the story is that when they were choosing the god of the city, the athens were the ones choosing. Each god presented a gift, Poseidon a horse (I think) and Athena the tree. And here's the thing: there were more woman than men (like 1 more person), so Athena chose a gift that was going to convince them. And so she won. But I guess it is kind of weird that, in a city where women had no rights, they would let them choose...

[@VI_VA.]

That was the exact version I knew too. Why did people change the myth so much? Were they afraid of snakes or something?

[@decoral]

I heard that as a punishment for picking Athena over him, Poseidon took away the women's ability to vote, which honestly sounds like an excuse invented to explain why Athens was so misogynistic.

[@VI_VA.]

@@decoral oh no, I really hate it now xD

[@grammaticalrouge29]

Justified when you think about it: They were about to choose a god for their city, and imagine picking a female one _without_ women input. Narrative is very important when writting any story, and if they didn't allowed women to vote _there..._ they would come out as thirsty losers through history.

[@akitalockwood]

In the version of the story I have Poseidon got pissed and flooded the city and one of the things they had to promise for him to retreat the water was that women can't vote anymore

[@carmenmercedes9903]

I feel like she should do a trope talk about snakes in myths at this point

[@thegarunixking1101]

Shoutout to Erechtheus for apparently having "snake-like legs". Let that sink in.

[@Zeliek]

Search in wikipedia for Gigantomach scroll to see the sculptures and vases... When you see like the perfect butt you'll know you're there...

[@blackidna]

I want a whole album of cover songs sung by Red. I love her voice and guitar. This one gave me that sweet relaxing feeling that makes you want to lay back, close your eyes and enjoy.

[@shadowtrooper5996]

I did some research on Athena, found out she was once a snake goddess….this was Wikipedia though, , I guess that explains Medusa sort of

[@Zeliek]

Yep and that Medusa deal came because Medusa was priestess of Athena the ones that had to stay virgin and Poseidon still had it out for the whole naming/patroning the city that assaulted her. So Athena both as a protection and as curse, for breaking her vows, turned Medusa into a snake creature that turned people to stone. Interesting enough her looks (beautiful or ugly) aren't set in stone just like her power only working on men.

[@decoral]

@@Zeliek That whole tragic Medusa backstory thing is essentially a Roman retcon. In the original Greek version Medusa was born a gorgon from the start with no involvement from Athena.

[@joanderson6880]

What I've learned from binging this series is that 1. Every powerful figure, both benevolent and malevolent, in European mythology/folklore eventually leads back to Odin 2. Every Indo-European love goddess is a stepping stone on the path to get to Aphrodite (and eventually the Virgin Mary) 3. Every mythos at some point will involve an inordinate amount of snakes 4. Dammit Christianization, why you gotta do us like that?

[@ipsumquaerere6927]

Gods: now fighting over sponserships! Honestly sounds like a rad add on to urban fantasy settings.

[@hefestus2012]

2:43 translation: “Those stupid Percy Jackson books”

[@FuzzyStripetail]

If Poseidon offered an olive branch to coincide with Athena's olive tree, he probably would have been granted a piece of Cecropia thereby not slithering away his chance of adding snake people to his mythos.

[@edstevenskw5542]

I mean Poseidon does have a thing about human snake hybrids

[@Phantom-qr1ug]

Man, Mediterranean civilizations really had a thing for "Gods/magical people who are also (kinda) sneks".

[@rabnerd28]

Stop making pins Red! I keep buying them and I'm going to run out of room on my backpack!

[@galning2768]

Buy a new backpack.

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

@@galning2768 and then sooner or later OP's gonna run out of room FOR their backpacks

[@galning2768]

@@shanedoesyoutube8001 that’s simple. Buy more shelves or whatever you are putting the backpacks on.

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

@@galning2768 and then sooner or later there's gonna be no room for the shelves You know what, this is like the historia civilis video on Julius Caesar's year as consul when vetius claimed a rumor that someone was planning to murder Caesar and Pompey. And then shit escalated to more suspects being suspected for plotting to kill them both, to the point I've even a read a comment who escalated that bullshit even further

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

To misquote something: "You're gonna need a larger backpack."

[@NobodyInParticular...]

"Python was unsurprisingly a snake" Me - _oh I thought he was a FISH_

[@bluelfsuma]

I love when you get into the older, somewhat forgotten gods. It's so cool.

[@arturotorres5663]

Ok you guys have been in my recommended for far too long i subbed

[@jeffreybogard2713]

I knew about Cecrops and the salt spring/olive contest, but the rest is new. Neat!

[@stapes5999]

Okay, this made me morbidly curious about the Hephaestus-Athena encounter, so I looked it up, and first of all, ew, second... How did the Olympians clean up without spawning more and more heroes and city-founders every time?

[@daviddaugherty2816]

Maybe that's where all the autocthonus people of Athens came from.

[@Gungelion]

so Erechtheus had trouble walking. Meaning Erechtheus, had a dysfunction? .... I'm sorry! I'm sorry! the joke grabbed me by the throat!

[@justafallperson2108]

If I didn't know better I'd think you were pulling my leg

[@ByMonitorLight]

Ah, Ghost Love Score is back again. Your epicness not quite hitting the epic heights you feel it epically deserves? Nightwish has you covered.

[@Krwzprtt]

Fun fact : Pseudo-Apollodorus is also sometimes called "Apollodorus the mythograph", which is just the coolest name ever devised.

[@Mike-db1gw]

Red: "No other city did this by the way." Athens: "Well duh, no other city is Athens."

[@reillycurran8508]

That bit with Apollo and Python might be part of the PIE tradition of the hero god and the Serpent/Dragon/Monster which apparently has corresponding mythos with Thor and Jormungandr, Heracles and the Hydra, apparently some mythological tales in Iran and India, and also St. George and the Dragon of christian Mythos, through which the archetypical tale seems to descend into modern lore as the knight the dragon and the damsel (although that could arguably also be attributed to yet another hero and serpent myth from the Greeks, Perseus's rescue of Andromeda, in fact the details of both St. George and Perseus's tales are SO similar that it's making me wonder if St. George's story is just christian stamp of approval Perseus's story)

[@Zeliek]

Interestingly enough Drakontas/Dragon in Greek also refereed to strict rulers that slowly rotted their lands with their laws/demands. Considering that a prince coming in killing the dragon (old father ruler) and marrying the princess (new generation, oppressed) makes it sort of incognito political story. Also Drakontes were not always serpent-like but also big humanoids like ogres... The first subtitles (maybe the dubs too) in Greek for Shrek refereed to him as a Drakonta.... They all come full circle and i had to spread this niche knowledge....

[@Gooberwares]

I hope Athena was a good adoptive mom