The Pointless Saiyan Rematch - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 13!

[@MistareFusion]

As you may or may not know, the powers that be have taken issue with my using Dragon Ball music in the opening. I suppose that's certainly their right. As a result, I have made the difficult choice to replace the opening music in most of The Boo Arc videos with a new, KZbin-friendly piece. I hope you like it. As a compromise, I have retained the original music in a few select Boo Arc videos scattered across the arc. For those who miss the original, follow this link to the opening as I uploaded it in 2020. Thanks so much for your support! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gH-9lYmQfMSfmK8

[@ZBoy-rc8zf]

Oof

[@funnydog597]

i like how kaioshin's earrings immediately retconned themselves into potara as soon as boo's shell opened up

[@Etrodecim]

LMFAO!! bruh good eye, I didn't even notice! Toriyama is such a hack.

[@DarkShadeAnimations1]

LOL

[@TheBigBlueBugofJustice]

@@Etrodecim He actually did draw the full Potara before during the tournament and within Bobbidi's ship, he just forgot and drew the hoop earrings for a few chapters, then remembered again. But yeah, that is pretty goddamn par for the course for Toriyama lmao Edit: I got out my copy of the manga and realized that he all of a sudden started drawing the Kaioushin's earrings as normal hoop earrings in chapter 456 (262 of the Viz version) and immediately started drawing them as the Potara design they had been until then again in chapter 460 (266). I feel like Tori's editor/a reader noticed and brought it to his attention, and he basically went "Oh shit, I forgot, whoops" and course corrected. Oh, Toriyama... *sigh*

[@rafaelandrade7627]

I can't help loving toriyama. By now he wasn't giving any fucks whatsoever (arguably he never gave them).

[@joaocalixto1686]

@@TheBigBlueBugofJustice buuuuuut it's still funny

[@skyrogue1977]

On the Twelfth Night of Freeza Day, Lord Freeza gave to me 12 conquered planets 11 space pods 10 healing chambers 9 Broken scouters 8 Dead Clorfors 7 Dragonballs 6 Saibamen 5 Ginyus posing 4 Hover Chairs 3 suits of armor 2 loyal minions And one dead Prince of Monkeys

[@azariyelvarro6271]

Your rhymes ain't slick. Otherwise, creative lyrics.

[@JonesDylan874]

NICE RHYMES!

[@DemonicRemption]

@Skyrogue19 Oh this comment had me until the Clofors. I stopped and giggled for a second at that inclusion, because it brought that scenes in DBZA to mind. xD Also we need to get Little Kuriboh to sing this.

[@KeenanStyles]

💀💀

[@Zero-pe3iq]

I just imagine the fans who hate what DBZA did to the fandom losing it if they realized that reference if from DBZA. Like too bad for them DBZA is awesome, and people who insist Goku is a bad father are a pain but that isn't Teamfourstar's fault.

[@michaszkot4419]

The "M" on Majin Buu's belt buckle stands for monkee.

[@Bardim18]

I thought it stood for Majin 😜

[@reversalmushroom]

I wonder if he can turn it upside down and set it to wumbo.

[@omnimonramone8459]

🎵Hey hey we're the Monkees🎵

[@jonathandelgado3755]

Reject Majin, return to Monke

[@samdub7228]

Boo not buu

[@natyfop]

"you actually came back after last week? I'm impressed" Last week's video was recommended to me by youtube, and I liked it so much that I watched the whole dissection playlist in one week. So I'm here and up to date! Glad to have found your channel, congrats on the work you have been putting in this since 2012, I'm impressed!

[@MistareFusion]

Thanks so much!

[@The_One_In_Black]

Funny enough, I had forgotten about MF's channel (waiting to subscribe until I had time to binge) and I also had last week's recommended to me. I've now officially caught up to having binged all of DBD in the last two weeks.

[@TylerCharlesFisher]

Boo attacking Dabra first is interesting. It's as if he's asserting that there can be only one big guy/little guy duo at a time, and right now it's his turn.

[@TheAzulmagia]

To be fair, Dabura did insult him.

[@nicholassims9837]

@@TheAzulmagia But didnt Baddi insult him too ?

[@ericbrown6203]

Where have I heard this before? Lol

[@joshshrum2764]

Lol.

[@joshshrum2764]

@@ericbrown6203 HERMMMMMMMMM I WONDER.

[@manjiimortal]

In hindsight Majin Boo is an amazingly designed villain for the reason you explained, as well as one of the most interesting antagonists in the series, precisely due to the fact he had a chaotic personality tempered by with childish impulses and the occasional moment of mercy. The part of the manga where he heals the blind child because he isn't scared of him, only for the child to be extremely grateful to him, and view Boo as a great force of good, which results in Boo sparing and befriending the kid is just great... even getting topped off by boo transforming some random dude into a milk carton (because the kid wanted to buy one, but all stores were closed), just to pay the kid a kindness, and then blowing up a city, because yes, why wouldn't Boo blow up a city like that! And that's not even touching the Mr. Satan friendship.

[@solaranimations9062]

I remember reading a comment that I thought was an interesting take on Goku and Vegeta’s rematch in the Buu arc, so I thought I might say it here for everyone else. Essentially, the commenter presented the idea that the Goku and Vegeta rematch was purposely made to be unsatisfactory in order to further add to Vegeta’s internal struggle. For years Vegeta has been wanting his fateful rematch with the same ‘low class warrior’ who humiliated him, however when he finally gets it, it’s not what he envisioned. This is the fight he’s been waiting for, this is the fight the viewers have been waiting for, and yet the final result doesn’t reflect the overall build up it had. Vegeta didn’t naturally earn this rematch, he forced it upon Goku. For Goku, this isn’t a proper rematch, it’s any other fight for Earth. This fight was not earned. Vegeta, and even the viewer potentially sees that with how the fight was being presented, further adding to the fact that Vegeta essentially threw away everything for one rematch, that wasn’t even all that satisfying. Goku vs Vegeta in the Buu arc symbolizes to the reader how far Vegeta has fallen, for a fight that wasn’t worth it at the end of the day. I’m curious to see what everyone thinks of this take. I found it to be particularly interesting and I’m wondering if anyone else did as well.

[@ExistentHope]

That's an excellent take.

[@fred2995]

I dig it

[@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780]

It's interesting, I guess, but the original match was still "just another fight for the fate of the Earth" for Goku. There wasn't anything very special about Saiyan Saga Vegeta as far as Goku was concerned as he was just an incredibly powerful villain for him to fight at that time. If we're going with this interpretation, I'd have much rather seen Goku and Vegeta clash immediately after Vegeta's corruption with Goku thinking he's better off clapping Vegeta quickly so that they can get to the matter at hand and so that Vegeta stops being a whiny baby. Initially, Goku is overwhelmed by how much more powerful Vegeta becomes after Babidi's magic influence takes hold of him and the progression of the fight disappoints Vegeta - he sees that he's gaining the upper hand but he feels that Goku's holding most of his power back. It's because of this that Vegeta surmises that his original clash with Goku was over the fate of the Earth, Goku gave it his all and even more than he had to give at that time because Vegeta posed a direct threat to Earth and so Vegeta would decide to recreate that scenario by becoming a big-time threat to Earth that would decimate the planet long before Buu even wakes up. It would have been fun seeing Vegeta becoming so wild in his need to have senpai Goku notice him that even Babidi would freak out because the planet that shows so much hope at resurrecting Buu is now at threat because of his hasty move corrupting Vegeta and playing into his insecurities. Who knows, maybe it could even lead to Babidi and Dabura pitching in at stopping Vegeta too making him an actual threat to the planet that isn't good nor evil because both good and evil want to see it stopped. That way Vegeta would have become an agent of chaos - a role he's best suited for. The way things are, I still think that this "rematch" is underwhelming, no matter how you frame it.

[@NicolasCaja]

Not much support for it in the text, Vegeta fought and lose, but thats what he's used too. In my opinion is having to figth together with Goku with actual collab at the end of the arc (specially with the fusión) and Bulma and his children what finally changed him, not another humiliation in a long line of humiliations.

[@najadamu2724]

Yeah, Vegeta also basically threw away his pride and cheated by getting Babidi to unleash his dormant power beyond its limits, as that was the only way he felt he could match Goku at the time. And, to add insult to injury, Vegeta later learns after his (temporary) death that Goku wasn't even really going all-out; he was still hiding SS3. All of this culminates in Vegeta's ultimate realisation towards the end of the (original) manga/anime *why* Goku was always able to surpass him; admit with his whole heart that Goku is the true "number one"; and is even willing to risk permanent erasure to give Goku a chance to kill Pure Boo with a full-power blast at SS3.

[@Chris-th5fl]

I do like the fat majin buu design. Alot of writers focus too hard at times to make their villains as cool looking as possible but toriyama gag type writing can come in handy at times.

[@nicholassims9837]

A good example of Beware the Silly ones

[@joshshrum2764]

Fat Buu, is so terrifying because of his puggy appearance to.

[@AfroZander5360]

One day I searched og db manga review and the rest was history

[@AfroZander5360]

@Trivial Dot truly

[@cuac232]

The M in Buu's belt stands for MistareFusion. He's trying to divert our attention by bringing up all those theories.

[@samdub7228]

Boo not buu

[@cuac232]

@@samdub7228 Well excuuuuuuuse me, princess!

[@samdub7228]

@@cuac232 rude

[@axeldiaz7960]

@@samdub7228 exoose me

[@chrissullivan6572]

I watch this playlist a lot, especially to fall asleep(in a good way) and this is one of my favorite, the best, and most poignant episodes in the series.

[@CapnJigglypuff]

The “M” on Buu’s belt obviously stands for “toriyaMa.”

[@rhondahoward8025]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Buu is the most entertaining villain and it's exactly for the reasons you listed. His childlike nature makes him unpredictable. He can be destructive... but Mr. Satan can also genuinely befriend him, and Buu can play with a puppy. It's endearing and fresh.

[@nicholassims9837]

Interesting Adventure Time would make a Fat Buu type character when Linch becomes Sweet P.

[@rhondahoward8025]

@@nicholassims9837 Yes, I remember!

[@nicholassims9837]

@@rhondahoward8025 I wonder how many childlike villains are there the only other one I can think of is Willie the Giant?

[@rhondahoward8025]

@@nicholassims9837 One Piece has Big Mom or Linlin. Fullmetal Alchemist has Gluttony.

[@TheParappa]

@@nicholassims9837 Janemba is the most obvious for me. He's literally a giant baby going on a rampage.

[@SonicmaniaVideos]

Note: Vegeta's fight with Goku is 8 pages long (as in from the moment Goku powers to ssj2 to the point he says they're evenly matched) and then Vegeta's speech happens...all of that across 2 chapters. The next chapter doesn't show them at all. Chapter 462 then only shows them sensing Boo's Ki and Vegeta thinking he's no threat. Chapter 463 then shows them react to Boo's Ki again, but now Vegeta takes it seriously. The idea is that most of their fight happens off-screen...which can be found in much more creative fashion in the DBZ anime.

[@Pinkfloyd0729]

I just noticed while watching this, Kaioshin's earrings change designs partway through the arc. When Buu comes out of his shell they become the "iconic" potara earrings, but before that they're just regular hoops. I can't believe I never saw that before.

[@MistareFusion]

Actually, I never noticed that either! He's definitely introduced in the "potara" style earrings. But they do change to hoops when they're in the ship. Or at some point. I haven't checked in detail.

[@andagean]

13 parts. It took 13 parts to get to Majin boo in the Majin boo arc review. “DBD Majin boo arc was the friends we made along the way. “

[@nepneppers8122]

This is my first time being here for your dissection december, I just wanted to say thanks for putting yourself through all the effort and crap to do this stuff. Thank you for everything you've done, and I'm excited to see more from you

[@Ouaddit]

I have to say, I like the idea of having Vegeta literally fighting a ghost in a desert, alone, yelling about his pride and stuff. It sure looked more badass in his head but in reality it's just pathetic and he realises it by the end of the fight. That's why he's going to try to catch up his mistakes by defeating Buu, dying in the process, in the most perfect end for him... Until he's being resurrected and all of that was for nothing because consequences doesn't exists in this stupid mang... Oh that's it, we reached the point were i hate Dragon Ball :O

[@pascalsimioli6777]

To me that point isn't a point in the manga, it's a point in my age, my life. At some point I've just realized this japanese guy keeps my childhood hostage and he doesn't give a damn about it and the million others. He just took the job cause they paid and didn't bother him much, no respect for his own craft, job and colleagues. Most of all no respect for his audience.

[@Mal-go5dl]

@pascalsimioli6777 I think that's a bit harsh on Toriyama, planning and writing serious conflicts are not his strong suit but he's been busting his ass weekly for years just to put something out so at the very least that's worth respect. He is definitely passionate about his craft, I don't think he would've taken up as many projects as he has otherwise. I'll concede that he doesn't seem to take his story too seriously, so for that reason, I find it hard to care too much about the series the same way many others do. Imo it went on far past its prime

[@DC-ts4uu]

This and the previous video were a breath of fresh air. Ever since I saw Vegeta's tantrum on Toonami as a kid, I've maintained that he was TOTALLY out of line.

[@tehboxnoob]

I have to say, as someone who grew up reading the manga from volume 1 to 42 and had Vegeta as my all-time favorite character, all your problems are valid. I fell in love with Vegetas character just because he was the ultimate villain, the literal first panel we get of him is him eating another dead humanoid on a planet supposedly recently conquered. He has no problem with killing children or the elderly as seen in the Namek arc, and it is just because he is such an awful character that he is entertaining. I was literally shocked as a child when he started living on earth and started just hanging out with the gang. Piccolo was one thing, he was a reincarnation of an evil dude so basically, he did not commit those evils, but Vegeta is a cosmic genocidal maniac, who would he succeeded on Namek would have ruled the universe as an immortal dictator. Because of all that, when he finally turned evil in the Buu arc it made total sense to me, that is after all his core character. I just wish, as you stated, that his end would have been at the hands of Goku in that case. Vegeta does not deserve to live a happy peaceful life with his family, he deserves to die. Although I still would have preferred if he died and stayed dead on Namek...

[@therealhardrock]

You have very successfully trolled the fans by reminding them that "Majin Vegeta" is an entirely fan-made term. Now maybe you should remind them that "Mystic Gohan" is also a fan made term.

[@Pooh396]

Majin vegeta is more of a video game made term.

[@NuggetKBDC]

Actually funimation or who ever translated the games coined the term for the weird but fun fighting games i dont know what he status of them in the Japanese versions of the games of course those came way after the manga ended so it doesn’t matter but still it is “official”

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

@@NuggetKBDC The Japanese versions from what I've seen will either apply the "Majin" label but never "Majin" and "Vegeta" in exactly that order or they'll describe him as "Prince of Destruction Vegeta", a name that's so incredibly cheesy that just makes me think Vegeta was so offended by being referred to as a prince of no one that he came up with a term to make himself feel better.

[@theboihilbirt1277]

@@the-aspiring-creator4249 how about the most dumbest rename in USA, Teen Gohan aka Gohan in his 11 years (worse Gohan is 9 years in the manga) Also same topic Adult Gohan aka Teen Gohan in his 18 years (16 years in manga)

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

@@theboihilbirt1277 Oh that rename is definitely an oddball one. I mean Adult Gohan I can kind of get since in America, 18 is considered the age when someone at least officially becomes an adult but yeah I have NO clue why Teen Gohan is the way it is. I guess because there's a noticeable change from his child period they felt the need to use a name to show that?

[@Pinkfloyd0729]

The highlight of my week every December! Love your work! Keep it up!

[@Riskofrain527]

Majin vegeta is living proof that vegeta didn't learn a damn thing from his fuck up with perfect cell. It's incredible how many vegeta fanboys say he's one of the most developed characters in the series even though up until the kid buu fight vegeta didn't get any character development after he died in the frieza saga.

[@bryanc7094]

As a former fan that’s been reading and watching dragon ball since chapter 1/episode 1, I have no problem telling people that Vegeta ruined the direction of the franchise. Telling other Dragon ball fans Vegeta is the most developed character is the equivalent of a grown man yelling at his mom to stop laughing at him for watching cartoons

[@kevinlee9929]

Goku does shit just like Vegeta, but fans stay giving him passes for his BS. Keep the same energy.

[@bryanc7094]

@@kevinlee9929 Ok Vegetard😂

[@kevinlee9929]

@@bryanc7094 Quit being a Goku Stan

[@Riskofrain527]

@@kevinlee9929 why do vegeta fanboys always feel the need to bring up goku everytime someone bashes vegeta. You do realize goku fans aren't the only ones that don't like vegeta fanboys right? I'm a piccolo and tien fan and I don't like vegeta or his fanboys. Most fans of dragon ball besides vegeta and bulma fanboys don't like vegeta or his fanboys.

[@NataliaNeeSama]

A quick reminder: Goku could've ended that fight with Vegeta in seconds with SS3 and avoided Majin Buu's ressurection, but choose not to do so to not "hurt Vegeta's Pride". I know it would shorten his time on Earth, but it's a dare situation. So... Goku kinda screwed up too....

[@kevinlee9929]

Fans give Goku a lot of passes

[@fitzhugh7463]

Not yet. Retroactively yes he did but at the point of this chapter’s release super Saiyan 3 didn’t exist yet so Goku really was giving it his all.

[@NataliaNeeSama]

@@fitzhugh7463 that... doesn't make sense for the plot. Outside the plot, of course it didn't existed, but when you add it to the story, you need to make sure it doesn't create plotholes if you go back. Because when you add something to the story, it affect everything to it's point of origin, even if it didn't existed originally. In the meta, yes, you're right, but in the story, Goku didn't magically gained the power at the same chapter it was introduced, he said he knew how to do it by training on the other world, so makes no sense for, in the story, he did not use it against Vegeta there, unless he had screwed it up, or Toriyama forgot. Either way, he knew how to do it and didn't used it.

[@fitzhugh7463]

@@NataliaNeeSamathe way lance covers these chapters is through the context of the original release, as if he were reviewing them as they came out in shonen jump magazine. Once 3 is introduced, THEN we’ll get new context to this fight. But as it stands, this is the latest chapter in the series and buu being resurrected is all vegeta’s fault

[@randomfox12245]

Toriyama hadnt thought of SS3 yet

[@mokuroh3046]

A comment I didnt get to do in the Majin Vegeta video is that personally I always believed Vegeta being this petty was the point, his reasons to hijack everything became progresively more selfish and it culminantes with him having a figth that is just in the background in which Goku is not even giving him his full attention, I always found that interesting, and always suppossed that his figth with Goku finally showed him how unimportant he and his desires have become, and it's just funny that in GT he reminisces on his actions and he basically cringes at them

[@vazak11]

While that is a fair read, I am unsure that's what Akira intended and its certainly not what Vegeta fans get from it sadly >

[@samdub7228]

Gokou not goku

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

"I was going through a phase, okay?" -Vegeta, probably.

[@mokuroh3046]

@@vazak11 I am sure it was his intention, more so considering how quickly Vegeta just shifts from "kill everyone" to just knocking out Goku and attempting to fix his fuck up once he gets called out on his bs, toriyama just kinda did not get the message across in the best way

[@SomeRandomDude000000]

@@samdub7228 ... dude

[@adrianmalacoda]

"pee pee poo poo, Kakarotto!" - Dark Prince of Destruction Vegeta

[@hiddenflare6169]

Oh I thought you were quoting Buu for a sec.

[@ekitorfreire]

Also, Lance, your discipline and commitment to DBDecember always impresses me. Just wanna let you know your hard work is not passing unnoticed and I really appreciate it! It’s easily favorite month to pass a long time on KZbin. Thank you very much :)))

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

Thanks for bringing up the topic of Majin Vegeta's rampage on the tournament grounds either giving or not giving Buu's ball energy from all of the people he killed! I've always wondered about that.

[@DarkShadeAnimations1]

deadass the one thing i always thought about

[@yeetleslaw8529]

That farmer during the saiyan saga had power level of 2. So I imagine the average audience member would be under 5> power level. So it probably helped fuel buu's awaking, but not by any amount worth mentioning.

[@ScherrHrenner]

@@yeetleslaw8529 Wasn't the power level 5?

[@Keiyon95]

@@ScherrHrenner Yes

[@Keiyon95]

@@DarkShadeAnimations1 I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case; like Lance said that was his higest body count he's racked up

[@jaredlord4009]

I remember watching the show back in the day and thinking..."Oh boy, this rematch is...kind of a waste of time."

[@gustyko8668]

I really like the friendship between Majin Boo and Mr. Satan, I can't wait til we get to it.

[@seanwatzitooya6094]

This is also a take I do not agree with. The story itself knows how pointless the fight is, constantly having Goku say this to Vegeta. It's MEANT to be shallow and unsatisfying to tie into Vegeta's equally shallow, ill-thought-out decisions. The fight leaves him as unfulfilled as it leaves the readers, with him being upset about how all this went. This is good writing. This is the author making readers feel the exact emotion the character feels. Unless, of course, you happen to be a reader who thinks this is AWESOMETACULAR for some reason. As random a writer as Toriyama is, he fundamentally understands his characters and the world he created, so even when he is making shit up on the fly he still walks into completing great character arcs. Everything about "Majin" Vegeta is flashy on the surface, but melancholic below. He has this sick new design? Okay, but it's just Super Saiyan 2. He's stronger than before? Well, not really. He's back to being the EVIL BADASS he used to be? Eh, he's just faking it. He's gonna finally get the climactic battle with Goku that everyone wants to see!? Nope, it kinda ends in a whimper. OH, THIS IS VEGETA'S TIME TO BEAT THE BAD GUY? Haha, no. That's by design. Because Vegeta still holds his fatalistic, eugenics-focused world views about position and power, and doesn't lose this view on things until Goku is fighting Pure Buu at the end. That's the Vegeta that's allowed to finally not be a self-defeating loser because that's the Vegeta that overcomes all of his saiyan programming and finally allows himself to be happy. None of this is possible without the humiliation and self-acceptance that the Android and Buu arcs force him to go through. This fight, consequently, is a masterclass in subverting expectations and having it both make sense and further the themes of the narrative.

[@randomfox12245]

Good points. If i were to play devils, the advocate response would be that a story deliberately being unsatisfying is still unsatisfying. Oh the story was TRYING to be pointlessly frustrating and unfulfilling? Well it succeeded: i feel pointlessly frustrated and unfulfilled. Screw you, story.

[@ssjduelistDD]

Honestly feels like Mistare is running out of genuine points and is just making up hottakes for clicks at this point. I think he's been burnt out on dissection for a while now. Such a shame.

[@olserknam]

Huh, I never looked at this fight that way before... This is interesting, yet I doubt it was actually intended by Toriyama, but props to him it it was.

[@kmgyening]

As fine a way as I think this is to interpret this part of the arc, I don't think the writing here is really that deep.

[@NicolasCaja]

Lol, you are giving Toriyama way toooooooooo much regard for the kind of writer he is.

[@hwate8]

Feels like the Goku vs Vegeta fight is the one that the manga should've skipped over, not the Gohan vs Dabra one.

[@jasonone8726]

There was as much of the Goku vs Vegeta fight in the manga as the Gohan and Dabura one.

[@hwate8]

@@jasonone8726 True, actually. But the point stands: Toriyama could have done an extra chapter focusing on the fight that was covering 'new' ground (think about Gohan's mindset of having lost his edge/rage since Cell, and clearly not being able to trust the 'adults' to protect the world). Or _at the very least,_ he could have spent at least half an extra chapter on each one and stretched out both, coming up with new stuff for Dabura to use and having Goku/Vegeta be more emotional like the Anime (or at least more climactic and bloody since it was the last Arc). Instead, it was rushed through for more chapters that were *also* rushed through, even though this was a good moment to stretch out the pacing a little and take some time to come up with the next plot beat. Edit: And he's not wrong: the Goku/Vegeta fight is pretty lacking in interesting setpieces, or techniques, or strategies... if it had to happen, it really did need some more background elements to make it an appropriately dramatic showdown, not just another fight. Hell, there isn't even an ending, and if you think about it... even if it _did_ have a winning side, it wouldn't matter if one of them went into it with an unfair advantage, regardless of whether they won or lost. That should've been withheld for the end of the Arc, and the other two levels of Babidi's ship should have had some weird enemies to fight, like that pink 'bouncy' dragon-thing from the Red Ribbon Arc, or some kind of plant/sand elemental spread throughout an alien jungle/desert that they had to destroy all at once. There's an idea that could be justified as 'lots of destructive energy all at once', and instead, they wasted the rematch on the idea instead.

[@SonicmaniaVideos]

A rematch done for the sake of it appeals to those "who would win" fanatics, they don't care how it happens as long as *it does happen.* Then the only other people who care are the people who see some sort of merit in Vegeta's turn, their investment comes from Vegeta's investment for whatever that's worth. I like how people are arguing that the fight being pointless is the point...as if that somehow deflects the criticism. Arguing in favor of Vegeta doesn't work on someone who has no reason to be invested in the fight regardless of thematics.

[@spartanq7781]

@Unstoppable Plays! You would be wrong. Why do you think this series exists and why we all watch it and then discuss it.

[@benjaminpeters6729]

Well they also give anticipation that a fight will happen in the tournament. That's what sparks vegetas heel turn in the first place

[@andrebryant5081]

Yea let's ignore if this was DBS Goku(true cannon) would have wanted this fight just as badly as Vegeta. That we could have easily gotten a Majin Goku because he just wants a good fight to make him feel good and not play hero.

[@pn2294]

How do you have a comment from 6 days ago?

[@spartanq7781]

@@benjaminpeters6729 Heel turn? That's just it things like what he does are what he always does. Frankly it's ridiculous how everyone keeps on being surprised by it.

[@jerr0.]

I think the 'M' on Buu's belt is kind of telling when it comes to Babidi's control of him. Everyone else has the 'M' on their body, whereas with Buu it's on an article of clothing. More like a tag on a dog than magic control.

[@chriscannon8144]

Goku threatening Shin was always one of my favorite moments from Goku. Wish he could've done more stuff like that from time to time in Super.

[@Tracker947]

I love your videos. This is my first time commenting in awhile, but I feel the need to point out that while I agree with your criticisms and think you are right, I still really enjoy these moments in the series. And I think that's where the distinction is. When you watch this, you're looking at it holistically. When I watch it, I'm a kid again and I'm caught up in the moment of what's happening at any given time.

[@hawshimagical]

ohohoh, lance is going to TEAR into that 2nd broly movie, i can feel it also i dont know if it was mentioned, but majin buu looks alot like pintar, the fat man that krillin quickly beat in the tournament earlier. it helps make majin buu look alot less threatening at first glance. i dont know if this was on purpose, but it's GENIUS.

[@Pleinair92]

I've seen the movie review on Patreon. He considers it the best Broly movie.

[@omnimonramone8459]

@@Pleinair92 me too!

[@ahimsamovies4484]

@@Pleinair92 That's nice to hear. I do as well, and think it's underrated as far as Dragon Ball movies go. It also happens to have one of Kikuchi's finest ever compositions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/paWpl5-vl8l9ppo&ab_channel=BrCed

[@MakoShiruba]

The M stands for "Manchild". At least for Boo. I don't know for all the other Babidi branded.

[@fitzhugh7463]

Makes sense seeing what vegeta did when he had the m on his forehead

[@adamthefractal9960]

I can never get over how well produced these videos are! From the analysis to the visuals and audio, this series is a real treat.

[@bryanc7094]

You’re the only American I like seeing talk about the franchise, keep up the good work

[@Soynereh]

Don't stop, I wanna keep listening.

[@bisexualichigo4227]

May have been pointless, but it was something every fan wanted to see.

[@RuthlessAggression99]

2 Pages of this fight isn't what I wanted

[@gavinlucas9761]

Wow, 13 parts in and it's only now that we reach the part where Majin Boo is introduced, I wouldn't be surpised if this lasted for over 20 parts.

[@FeralRavage1]

Ooh man, I thought I was the only one that didn't care for Goku and Vegeta's fight here. For a variety of reasons...you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Their first battle was way superior anyways. Also props to the tribute of Huge Buu, might be the be the most underrated incarnation, even I find him more interesting than Perfect Cell as well

[@garrettthomas5653]

Yeah, you pretty much summed up my thoughts on the rematch exactly. It's fundamentally hurt by the how it's framed as being tertirary to the main conflict rather than the actual focus. Even if someone isn't personally all that invested in Goku and Vegeta fighting again, the story is making a big deal about it with how it was the reason behind Vegeta's actions...until it actually happens. However, as I see some people already poniting out, that could've very well been purposeful. It could've been meant to point out how petty and utterly pointless Vegeta's obsession with Goku was at this point when MUCH more important thnigs were going on. Honestly though, I'm not sure if Toriyama had that in mind when he was writing it. It's just as likely that he simply used Vegeta's pettiness once again to further the plot and didn't put that much thought behind it, which sounds exactly like something Toriyama would do. I'm also not really keen on authors intentionally sabotaging their work just to make some sort of point unless it's handled with extreme care and tact. Whether it was purposeful or not, at the end of the day we're still left with an underwhelming fight made only slightly more engaging in the anime.

[@spartanq7781]

I love love if it was intentional that would actually turned that mundane betrayal pointless even to Vegeta.

[@mechajay3358]

Buu is basically the type of character that Toriyama took from early Dragon Ball and put in the Z part of the series.

[@islandboy9381]

Never forget Toriyama wanted Cell's dopey second form to be his final one

[@hydrocosmo]

6:44 holy shit that's where the budokai tenkaichi op bobble heads came from

[@hajime_87]

The fights are the highlights of the series, getting to see Super Saiyans fight was awesome.

[@kevinlee9929]

Its the only time of the series where 2 SSJs were doing legit battle.

[@jayvon221]

@@kevinlee9929 it’s the only time 2 ssj actually fight in the series

[@starone1]

As a fan of the Buu arc and Buu as a character (my favorite Dragon Ball villain), I'm happy to see all the Buu love here. You're right Gaffer, Buu is a far better villain than the generic Cell. Buu actually has distinct character traits, Cell has little to none.

[@apollojusticefanboy]

A great way to celebrate Christmas with the arrival of Majin Boo. It took 13 episodes but here we are. I really enjoyed this episode and I am excited to end the month with the second Broly movie.

[@marcus7984]

Merry Christmas Lance, your videos are always some the best parts of my year. I love your videos and what you do!

[@CptGallant]

10:36 The spin-off we didn't know we needed.

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

I'm really glad in particular you mentioned how you didn't care that much about the anime version either... which I'm sure has already been debated as one of the more controversial takes... even though you've made it clear that unless you need to refer to something in your dissection of a point that you are judging the manga on its own and how it tells its story and that you will only cover elements that the anime added or changed in DBDTV. I feel like that fight is kind of the perfect example of in general how I see points going right over the heads of people. I mean the moment people saw your announcement the comments went "Oh yeah the manga fight sucks! It's so short! Anime is very good though with those extensions." and yet no one seemed to think about how you would judge this from the perspective of the story itself.

[@MistareFusion]

I'm glad you appreciated it because it something I felt I needed to include. Since I do feel "it's too short" is a frequent criticism of the manga version, I wanted to nip it right in the bud than length is not the problem. It's the lack of substance. The animated version makes things flashier and perhaps a bit more memorable from that angle, but it does nothing to make the fight matter more.

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

​@@MistareFusion To be honest, I don't find it even all that memorable anyway because it's flash and no substance. It's one of those fights that I can get the same feeling from just watching it divorced from the story on KZbin as I do watching it with the series. Plus last I recalled, the stuff that wasn't additional fighting was just either Vegeta acting smug or more whining from him but that's just me and I realize that this might get discussed more a long way down the line when DBDTV comes to this point.

[@HybridAngelZero]

Merry holidays, Fusion! Thank you for literal years of wonderful, rewatchable videos. I hope you and yours have a wonderful holiday season 💖

[@codystork3008]

With the amount of sudden plot convenient mind reading that goes on in dragonball.I am surprised there is not a panel of Babidi reading Vegeta's mind before sending them to the tournament.

[@yotomoe5953]

God I love Buu. I mean it. He's my favorite villain in this "Z" portion of the story and may be my favorite villain overall. And that's kind of a HUGE accomplishment since Freeza is also amazing. His powers, his demeanor, his character design. God his thin mischievous glare is so much more frightening than anything Cell did. From beginning to end Buu is a load of fun. But I think my favorite mOment is how, when he awakens the FIRST thing he does is just screech his own name. "BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" (The first thing buu doing after awakening being shouting ends up being a common thread)

[@spartanq7781]

Joking aside I actually would love to see an adventure of adult Upa in this time frame.

[@sumerapaleema610]

I really need to stop looking at the red line on the bottom of the video. Makes it feel way shorter. Merry Christmas Lance. After this long grim year, I hope your 2021 becomes a good year.

[@ekitorfreire]

Gosh, that rematch reminds me of how bad super saiyan 3 is. Goku gets so pissed of about Vegeta’s pesky reasons to kill innocent people that he doesn’t want to enjoy a good fight anymore. He’s willing to threat anyone who tries to stop him, innocent or not, goes straight up to a level above because he wants to beat the shit out of Vegeta the quickest way possible, while taking into account the damages that can benefit Boo. Goku, the fair, merciful and individualist fighter literally abandons all of these principles all at once because Vegeta’s childish and cruel behavior to get under his skin. It’s awesome. And then all of that goes to shit because somehow he is a good actor and just really pretended he cared about Boo’s awakening while enjoying being the most irresponsible he’s ever been (maybe even worse than in the beginning of the Cell arc? Arguable... still awful though).

[@sumerapaleema610]

I just realized something. If the M stands for Ma (demon), does that mean anyone under Babidi's spell is turned into an actual demon? Does that in turn mean anyone killed by his minions don't pass on to the afterlife like Piccolo's victims? Or is the branding a metaphor for how unrestrictedly evil his minions become when under the spell?

[@macarotto]

Thanks again for another year of excellent and entertaining videos Lance. This year especially, I've looked forward to getting the notifications that there's been a new DBD episode released. They're a little pearl of normalcy in a year that's been anything but. I hope you've had as great a Christmas as possible, and I wish you all the best for the new year!

[@SUPAXPLOSIVE]

Here for my 3rd dissection December thanks for all you do man!

[@1slayer959]

For me fat buu and kid buu are some of the best dbz villains for different reasons. Buu in a way is a super powerful version of what goku could have been. A pure child killing people because he was raised to think that's not only ok, but good. Buu even believes humans want to be killed and the screaming and pleas are all part of the game. Kid buu, I firmly believe is the second weakest buu. Only stronger then fat buu. But he's dangerous because of his refusal to play the game. On hist first appearance. There was no small talk. No power up. He didn't even acknowledge the heros. He just blew up the planet. And later when they fought him, it was shown why this mindset is so dangerous even if its on an opponent weaker then the opponent they've been fighting. He's immune to banter, so he can't be reasoned with, or convinced to allow moves to land. They need to fight this monster and nearly all of their oldtricks were useless on him.

[@Acerthorn]

3:29 Maybe it's just the Funimation dub, but I'm pretty sure it's said (or at least heavily implied) that, in order to become valid targets to have their energy absorbed, they first have to enter the ship (or at least, some other area of Babidi's domain) of their own free will. That's why Supreme Kai admonished them for entering the ship: That act made them valid targets for Babidi's game.

[@Redsnausage]

I love the tradition of waking up and watching DBD first thing Christmas morning

[@anotherfandom]

Man, Buu arc felt so clumsy and crazy. I remember that around this time, I was just reading because I was too far in. I was excited to see Buu and he didn't disappoint, but everything else, bleeehhh.

[@vazak11]

That was a great watch, I think you made excellent points about the lack of stakes and immersion to Goku VS Vegeta, I honestly vibe with having no interest in seeing them squabble again barring super specific and permanent circumstances and the asides about the tournament, the ship, the varied reactions and the nature of Buu as a villain were all great.

[@antshield]

I got so used to the Majin 'M' that I never thought about it. I sort of assumed it was a family symbol for Bibadi.

[@spartanq7781]

It would make sense between Bibadi and Bobodi but the M for them means Madoshi or wizard. For the others characters I see it as their branding for their tools and they consider their support as tools.

[@Thebabybadass101]

Merry Christmas yet again, thanks for the upload :)

[@firered1274]

Toriyama's memory almost without a doubt correct in this case. The very idea that there's a debate between whether it was "majin," "madoushi" or "ma" is very weird to me. They aren't exactly different words, there's no meaningful distinction there. My best guess to the confusion is just applying English logic to Japanese. Words aren't formed the same way in these languages. The "jin," "jyuu" or "doushi" aren't important. The important part is the "ma." If you were to ask a Japanese person what the M stands for, you'd get "ma" as answer 100% of times. No one would think "majin" or "madoushi." That's weird. I'm sorry, it's hard for me to explain this.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Some actually have.

[@MourningCoffeeMusic]

All this analysis does for me is prove that anime is definitively better at portraying almost everything for this arc. Everything we linger on in the anime is either rushed or skipped over here, and like you said whenever we cut to a gag scene you can tell that’s what Toriyama would rather be drawing. And for fans like me that’s what ruins this arc. Aside from Gohan’s high school arc and the tournament, a more gag tone doesn’t work for the Buu arc and actively drags it down. Gotenks being the peak of that problem, but even Majin Buu here initially took me out of the story. I was expecting a Super Buu, which we thankfully eventually get, but I think this Buu still mostly works. You might think Majin Vegeta is the problem, but I along with many others point to Gotenks and a pointless gag tone.

[@BigA207]

I’m really glad you had enough Christmas magic and time to talk about Majin Boo in this video!

[@letronixRULES]

Happy Holidays Lance and to everyone!!

[@justbny9278]

honestly Vegeta being under Babidi's "thingy" completely spoils the fun of a rematch between them, it's not them testing each other's progress out after years it's just OooOOOoOOohh nNooOOOoo Vegeta's EEeeEEvil NoowW so we need to figgghttt hiim It's lame that when the rematch is finally going to happen at a point when Vegeta could theoretically have redeemed himself after spending years on earth and learning more of Goku's original virtues it's a lame plot device to push a new villain

[@ShinobiPXO]

Almost like it's supposed to spoil the rematch for us

[@christophercramp17]

For Christmas this year, I hope you earn way more subs. Your work deserves it!

[@fran3ro]

What I find interesting in this, aside what I said about Vegeta's character consistency in the previous video, is that it deviates a little from the classic formula. From the start of DB it's always: bad guy is strong -> we fight it and defeat it -> there's a new bad guy stronger -> we fight it and defeat it -> repeat. However, in this arc the bad guys (except Boo) are weaklings, so to give the good guys a challenge Toriyama used one of the good guys' team (even if he's not a good guy) against them. You may like it or not, but it's a change.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

That actually happened inthe cell arc.

[@xtxond]

I don't celebrate Christmas but it sure feels like a holiday with so much dbd

[@ecosmith7852]

I’d like to think Buu made the belt with the M and when Bibidi asked him what’s the M stand for? Buu was like 🤔....🤗

[@_.Lucifer_Lightfall._]

Thanks Lance! I personally don't celebrate Christmas, but I DO celebrate Dragonball Dissection. :D Have a safe and relaxing holiday!

[@MagillanicaLouM]

The rematch is also pointless because Vegeta actually beat Goku, it was Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe that defeated him lol

[@anrick1362]

You’re not wrong, just be careful who you tell this to lol

[@crystalfire7x]

Totally true.

[@LegendXD00]

Dragon ball fans proving they don’t watch/read the show/manga again

[@UnapologeticIslam]

I always thought that Majin Buu got the energy he needed from the hero’s taking damage, not the ship. Then again the two idiots from the tournament had to use a device to steal or gather the energy for him, so I guess any and all theories can be plausible. Your thoughts about Goku ending the fight quickly seems like his approach in the beginning, but then with the surprise reveal later on it completely goes against it. Probably more Toriyama forgetting his own plans and making things up on the fly. Anyway, still can’t wait to hear about your thoughts on that surprise reveal and all that it entails...

[@sumerapaleema610]

Do you think Toriyama made Buu an unintentionally evil character because his current editor was way more lenient than the other two who inspired King Piccolo and Frieza?

[@spartanq7781]

I never really cared for their rematch either. It always bugged me how Gohan and Kaioshin don't even get to do anything before all hell breaks loose. This version of Majin Boo is such a fun character. The latter versions are so mindboggling dull. Boo finally arrives but only for a cameo. I can't wait for your take on a extremely underrated movie next time. Also damn we got 13 Boo arc parts in one year and I still feel this will take forever since we are just now getting to the plot that won't suddenly change.

[@olserknam]

I kind of like Super Buu. I feel like he works as a dumb unhinged psychopath, better so than Kid Buu.

[@spartanq7781]

@@olserknam Yea that's exactly why I don't like him. Nor do I like his fan name you used.

[@Redx500]

What would you rather call him, Evil Buu?

[@spinceiling7442]

Super Buu and Kid Buu do not deserve this slander lol

[@SomeRandomDude000000]

kid buu and fat buu are the only good ones

[@dwainfrett5385]

I liked that Buu got his full power so suddenly. It makes you wonder if he is really that powerful. And Buu awakening felt inevitable ever since Kaioshin gave up and let Goku and Vegeta fight. It also made Gohan look like he couldn't handle the situation on his own which I like. Even when he was a kid he was always in over his head. I like the idea of Gohan not being as strong as he was before. At least in this part of the story. It also helps to make Goku and Vegeta look stronger. They are the 2 strongest in the universe fighting.

[@KaronFowler]

What if Kaioshin killed Majin Vegeta? Shin was willing to hold Gohan in place so that the minions can drain his energy. After that Kaioshin, follows them and the rest of the Dragon Team follow him. Also, I believe it was in part 6 of this arc where a quote from Toriyama (so sorry if I'm misspelling that) saying that "gods can do anything." Well let's see that, after all one doesn't need to punch someone really really hard in order to kill them. Plus Shin can materialize things into existence, perhaps he could conjure something to either kill Vegeta or hold him in place. This would mean that we wouldn't get the rematch, but I'm fine with that, and since Vegeta comes back again later perhaps he can do his sacrifice then? Similar to happened in movie 9? idk.

[@nani4249]

Or he creates a hollow circle around Vegeta made of the strongest metal in the universe and, suffocates Vegeta to death sounds like a good plan to me. Imagine another time line where shin was actually so powerful he just appeared next to Majin Vegeta and snapped his neck (or using his telekinesis) but can't fight anyone who has magic.

[@KaronFowler]

@@nani4249 Sounds like fun. MasakoX or whoever please get on that.

[@Pooh396]

My 7th christmas in a row enjoying DBD!

[@spritvio639]

I remember back when I was watching this part of the story in Kai The Final Chapters back when it was new on Toonami. I was so pissed at Supreme Kai and Gohan because they really did nothing except stand there looking mad. Yeah it is Goku and Vegeta's fault for their fight but they could have atleast done something before Buu had more power.......

[@RancorSnp]

The point of that piece of the story is - they couldn't. Even if right away when they got there they started fighting, the amount of time it took to resurrect Buu was too small of a time window for them to be able to do anything about it. Gohan can beat Dabura and Shin can beat Babidi, but neitehr of them can do so in an instant, doubt they would have time to deal damage

[@bananatree2527]

​@@RancorSnp True, that's how it is in the manga. The anime however draws out the fight between Goku and Vegeta so much, either because Toei thought that was cool, or because they didn't want to catch up to the manga, or whatever, that they keep on having to cut away in between the fight to Gohan and Supreme Kai just standing there bantering and drawing that out too. It makes Gohan and the Supreme Kai look really dumb in wasting all this time.

[@spritvio639]

@@bananatree2527 Exactly.....

[@kmgyening]

I actually feel conflicted about Goku's response to this whole thing. I mean, supposedly he agrees to fight Vegeta under those circumstances because Vegeta will probably kill more innocent people if he doesn't, which in my mind would imply that he doesn't really want to. But then once they actually fight, he starts enjoying it, at least until Boo wakes up. So essentially my problem is, if Goku can still enjoy a fight even under these circumstances, then I'm really not sure where HE draws the line. Maybe it was that pesky Saiyan nature of his taking over again, or maybe it was the inner martial artist in him taking over, or maybe he was actually really conflicted. But then, none of that was very clearly conveyed throughout that entire ordeal, especially not the last case.

[@andrebryant5081]

Goku only draw the line to stop the fight with Vegeta because he knew Buu was stronger and he knows Buu would give him a more enjoyable fight than boring Majin Vegeta.

[@kmgyening]

@@andrebryant5081 When I say "draw the line", I mean as in, Goku may or not engage in a fight that he knows he will take no enjoyment from. But since he tends to enjoy all or most of his fights by this point in the series, then I guess I'm not sure what I was expecting.

[@gavinlucas9761]

"M" Stands for Mega Man!

[@BagOfMagicFood]

"Now I've got your power!"

[@billywilliams8378]

While Kioshin didn’t give an alternative to Goku and Vegita fighting, even without SSJ3 Goku could have resolved the situation pretty easily. All he has to do is teleport to where Dabura is and defeat him. Since he and Vegita aren’t fighting Buu isn’t getting much energy even if Vegita goes around killing people. Vegita has already stated he and Goku are stronger than Dabura and worst case scenario is he and Gohan defeat him together. Goku could also teleport Vegita to Other World to make sure Bebidi can’t teleport Vegita back once he shows up.

[@yeetleslaw8529]

Thanks for everything!

[@JJJ-uf1il]

09:51 i love the detail of SALTY water xD Happy Holidays everyone :D

[@AmigoRoberto]

I super agree with your assessment of Vegeta's "character arc" thus far. Namely there isnt one. He's a murderous psychopath and we should not trust him at all. But majin mark or not I feel this is the proverbial turning point moment for most people when viewing his "arc" Yes I think Goku v Vegeta pt 2 should have happened ages ago, probably right after Freeza's defeat by Trunks, but we get it here. Years of waiting and we get this mess of a fight. Was Vegeta tricked, did he intentionally take the M for the power boost, is it apathy towards the revival of Buu or arrogance like with Cell's second form? Ultimately it doesnt matter because he has absolutely zero reason to play being a Z fighter aside from this rematch with Goku. It's like watching a superbowl and knowing for certain your team got screwed by the refs but the game ended and everyone moved on. At least that's my thoughts on why there are so many hardcore Vegeta fans today. This fight was always supposed to have a part 2 but the refs got involved again.

[@HyperKnuckles01]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays dear Mistare Fusion!

[@fred2995]

Unrelated but I finished my naruto manga collection today cause of Christmas😤😤

[@dwainfrett5385]

I liked the build up to Goku and Vegeta's rematch. They had to cancel the fight during the martial arts tournament just to fight a bunch of scrubs. And then Gohan is taking forever to take out Dabura. All Vegeta wants to do is get this overwith to fight Goku. And Vegeta is worried that knowing Goku he would find a way to skip out on their fight and go back to the other world never to be seen again in that life.

[@ZaygetRIGHT]

Lol he was gonna get the fight regardless if they blitzed through babidis men that quickly vegeta should’ve just stepped in since gohan was taking too long and ended dabura then blasted majin buu vegeta gets his fight and there’s no vegeta and goku was gonna fight in that small tournament they are not on tournament level no more like in dragon ball that ring out stuff wasn’t gonna work on vegeta even cell felt it was pointless and blew up his own ring

[@dwainfrett5385]

@@ZaygetRIGHT yeah. That's why Vegeta kept saying might as well he jump in and beat Dabura or just blast his way to the bottom of the ship

[@kevinlee9929]

@@dwainfrett5385 And the funny thing is if they would have went Vegeta's plan and awoken Boo before he was fully powered. Boo would have been weaker than both Vegeta and Goku.

[@dwainfrett5385]

@@kevinlee9929 yup

[@kevinlee9929]

@@dwainfrett5385 From the Saiyan to Boo Saga BOTH Goku and Vegeta had been talking about fighting each other again. I'm with you. The build up was great.

[@tylersadx]

stayed up all night for this

[@LuffyMcDuck]

Merry Christmas indeed! I need to eat with my family before I can watch this. :)

[@JABofLEGENDS]

7:40 you don’t mind if I steal that idea for tabletop game campaigns, cause that sounds awesome.