Model Y E33: Sparks Fly for a Breakdown of the Body-in-White

[@TheMrVallex]

This is turning into quite a secret highlight on youtube

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching! Tell your friends.

[@nihongobenkyoshimasu3190]

Well, I'm quite speechless... I can't wait to see the Cybertruck getting the same kind of treatment !!!!

[@MattOGormanSmith]

I suspect he'll "analyse" the first one by driving it up and down a mountain or three first :)

[@umlaut803]

3m views day 1

[@ja_co]

This series really puts into perspective everything that goes into designing/building a vehicle, let alone a high quality one. Yet still a roadmap of improvements to be done. Amazing how complex it is!

[@chestermartin2356]

Ikr

[@ramblerandy2397]

And Sandy is way simplifying it, so that it doesn't become too dry for many people.

[@davidneuzil9356]

I agree, I never knew how complex it was.

[@supeng63]

And here I thought the design was just done on a computer and then press print.

[@koeniglicher]

And that's only hardware. So far, Sandy did not even bother to look into the software and remote services side of modern cars. With me being from Germany: this knowledge on (traditional) car design and manufacturing is way more common here, and the same I think holds true for example in the Detroit area, where many automakers and likewise Munro&Associates are located. There are just regions, where the knowledge on cars and all their traditional aspects is more wide-spread than in other regions. Former Manufacturing Belt, gradually turning into Rust belt. With Silicon valley taking over, whether you like it or not. There, body in white engineers are just some other kind of engineer, with software developers, chip designers, data scientists, electrical engineers and manufacturing automation engineers getting most of the focus, reward and attention. Who cares about the type of steel of certain body parts or joining methods, when you can market a car with 400 miles/640 km of EV range, a supercharger network and "full-self driving capabilities." :-) This kind of approach centers on promised or actual value for the customer, not necessarily immediate savings for the manufacturer.

[@TennisGvy]

Former body engineer here, "most revered and respected"? Awww, shucks you're making me blush. I did it fresh out of a masters, but I had expertise in optimization they needed. It took me 2-3 years to get comfortable with assembly processes, different material options, different fastening and sealing options

[@tehcno007]

Can you recommend some resources/books to learn more about the structural design process?

[@TennisGvy]

@@tehcno007 The two books most widely used for first order principles would be Don Malen's Fundamentals of Automobile Body Structure Design or if you're looking for something cheaper, Jason Brown's Motor Vehicle Structures. Although, the latter doesn't cover crashworthiness topics. I studied aerospace, and these books are similar to Raymer's books for aero vehicles. To understand more of what's done at an OEM with a budget, I think presentations offer a good introduction. There's a small conference called Great Designs in Steel focused on body-in-white design (to promote steel use of course, so no aluminum bodies unfortunately). Usually, 2 to 3 OEMs present a new body each year and the presentations are uploaded on their site: greatdesignsinsteel.com/present/ Wrangler: www.steel.org/-/media/doc/smdisteel/gdis-2019/03-track-1-2---bagley.ashx RDX: www.steel.org/-/media/doc/smdisteel/gdis-2018/track-2---riggsby.ashx Silverado: www.steel.org/-/media/doc/smdisteel/gdis-2018/track-2---geeraerts-and-sulik.ashx For more material guides, this guy is a fireman who publishes these colored BIWs, so you can see where certain materials are typically chosen: www.boronextrication.com/tag/body-structure/

[@ADOENDRA]

It's a art ! The FEELING how to make it is important ! It is like writing a book or story.

[@Rhyme905]

@TennisGvy bro good that ur tooting ur own horn but maybe tell us ur opinion on the tesla body and how good/advanced or basic it is

[@TennisGvy]

@@ADOENDRA You sound like Italians I worked with lol

[@jdesmo569]

I've been working on cars, aircraft & their components all my life, and [still] could watch this all day long. Just love it...Thanks Sandy.

[@samphazm]

It’s incredible how orchestrated it is. Learning a lot from this series!

[@martydouglas1802]

Very informative. I have been in GM 37 years and not have some of the most important things explained like this. No wonder folks who would build autos should pay such a high price for your dissection.

[@jmel1746]

Who ISN'T watching Sandy and his team tear down the Model Y? It's a highlight in my day every day during this shelter at home period. My brother in Seattle is watching, I'm watching and as I socially distance myself from my neighbor taking a stroll past my home in Austin, Texas, he tells me he looks forward to watching these videos each and every day as well. Sandy is an engineering rockstar and I hope Munro & Assoc. sells T-shirts and hats so I can pick some up. In 2018, I was disappointed when watching Sandy's assessment of Tesla's bodywork on Model 3. I bought 2 of them and was greatly enjoying the rush of rocketship thrust and amazing handling dynamics in an American-made sedan that felt like a sports car. Later in the year, I watched Mr. Munro tell the guys on Autoline Detroit how advanced the 3's electronics and software were and that lined up with our ownership experience. The fact that Tesla was humble enough to take Sandy's suggestions to heart and employ big improvements into the Y construction and assembly speaks tons about Tesla and Munro & Associates. The cost savings and better build of current and future products from the company are big wins for everybody all around. It's the mind-blowing fun and the practical advances a fresh company like Tesla infuses into the automobile world that make us dorks (some call fanboys) so passionate about these exciting cars. I can't wait to own a Cybertruck and see what Sandy and his stellar group of guys and gals do next and what Tesla has up it's sleeves in the future!

[@marcowayne287]

I have a Model Y on order and I am finding this amazing. Not just because I have one on order. It's what am learning about how cars are built and assembled. Thank you so much for bringing this to the public I can only image the minds of young people you are aspiring to be designers, engineers, for any type of products.

[@kdfox2007]

What a lesson for engineers. MasterClass and Sandy is sharing about 1% of his knowledge

[@lemongavine]

More experts in the world should do this kind of thing. Fascinating. If I ever meet Sandy, I’m asking for his autograph.

[@markplott4820]

many Legacy are makers will be buying Munro Report to gain Insights into how the Model Y is so SAFE and Efficient.

[@GregRobsonUK]

...and his LED light pointer. That's a handy gizmo!

[@Urgelt]

I'm asking for his pocket protector! He keeps cool stuff in that thing. :P

[@accountname1651]

Don’t be offended but you are totally uninformed about the world of automotive Everybody in the automotive industry does that internally tears down their own models and competitive cars and learns from it, turns down a design and makes it even better Why do you think it takes for Mercedes or any other company 3-5 years to bring out a new model? Most problems Munro shows here are already solved for a lot of companies which build cars for 💯 years already

[@markplott4820]

@@accountname1651 - LEGACY car makers RARELY buy any Tesla and Tear it down, too costly and Time Consuming. and they are FEW experts in BEV at Legacy to SAFELY Teardown a TESLA. let alone UNDERSTAND how a Superbottle or Octovalve works. MOST of the time they just but the FULL Report on the TESLA cars. and easier on the STUPID Legacy Engineers. Chris YOU are DUMB. Legacy did not Invent the BEV , Tesla did. and made it Better. Legacy is still buying a BEV Drivetrain from China or Korea. the BOLT is 70% LG chem. Chevy provides the ICE car body that's NOT Efficient. the TESLA model S,X, 3, and Y are BEV Specific bodies with a Super Low Drag . and Tesla makes the only 6 star Vehicles in the Entire World (5 star in all Category). the MAIN Point is LEGACY when Designing a NEW car the Engineers get in the way of each other and FIGHT over who gets the Resources. instead of working Togeather and sharing the Resources and making an INSANE Product. LEGACY does not do their own Engineering like TESLA does, Legacy only does CATALOG ENGINEERING , where they Litterally order from a Catalog of Parts from Vendors to build their cars. TESLA does MOST of their own Engineering. that's why a Model Y has 80% Less cabeling than a Chevy BOLT. and why the TESLA FSD computer is Superior to the Expensive NVIDIA GPU. most Recently DAIMLER had a Secret meeting with BMW & VW, and that it said NONE of them were capable or creating a FSD computer and FSD Software that can compete with TESLA. that Tesla was Decades ahead with what they could do Today.

[@Miata822]

I worked with heavy equipment where the crash dynamics rule of thumb seemed to be "Mor Steeeel!" What automakers have achieved over the last ten years is simply amazing.

[@Paul-GrnHil]

Sandy, I hope you realize you have now totally voided your warranty 🥴

[@elektrotehnik94]

Oh noooo...

[@lylestavast7652]

he's indirectly improved Tesla's margins as there will be no possibility of warranty claims from this one... ;)

[@kierancalder8573]

Unless he makes a fuss about it on twitter

[@tw9668]

It is actually very useful for body shop. If you have a dented quarter panel, the body shop needs to know how to replace it without affecting the integrity of the car.

[@michelmelinot]

7:30 "This is what is protecting you when you get into a front-end crash" Autopilot : *am i a joke to you ?*

[@dalel3608]

Occasionally, yes. www.caranddriver.com/news/a28911259/tesla-crash-california-autopilot-driver-ntsb/

[@ludditetechnologies]

Blessed to have you sharing your experience wisdom and enthusiasm Sandy, and especially your kindness. Respect.

[@PastunesMusic]

I'm enjoying this series so so much. Thank you for putting it online for all of us to see!

[@brandonsmith8235]

Absolutely can't get enough of the Model Y teardown, thanks for making these and sticking to it!!

[@fjalics]

My morning Monro fix! I think when he is finished, I'm going to have to rewatch them all.

[@christianschindler1585]

I’m simply speechless listening to you. You’re so knowledgeable - it’s truly amazing!

[@SolvingTheMoneyProblem]

Great as always.

[@Raylen_Fa-ield]

I'm blown away with now much of an improvement the model y is over the 3

[@Pitman-Grills]

Great content, no frills, informative and entertaining, thanks, much appreciated.

[@ericsnapat3903]

Great job, again as usual!! I’m just so thrilled with each episode! Thank you Sandy and everyone else!!

[@ralphwagenet852]

Your videos should be mandatory viewing for anyone going into automotive design as a profession.

[@grizzlymartin1]

Man, your professionalism is so damn inspiring. Thanks for inspiration during a time when that very thing suffers.

[@144Donn]

Excellent presentation..Really! The professor is in top shape for this lecture!

[@nonyanks2510]

That's a lot of spot welds to cut out....I agree, it boggles the mind watching the assembly process annd trying to figure out how the came up with just the sequensing gives me a headache.

[@peteglass3496]

I went on a tour of the Mini factory in Oxford a year back and Sandy is right how the Body-in-White shop truly is a 'symphony', quite amazing to watch as everything moves in synchrony to a 60-65second clock cycle. Interestingly while we were there, they were prepping the robot cells for the variations in the structure needed for the Mini Cooper EV now fully available - but of course didn't let us go anywhere near to see them.

[@michaelsheldon5276]

This series is one of the BEST on KZbin. Informative and entertaining! Thank you!

So much details to think when designing a car!

[@markplott4820]

GM and Ford put ZERO thought into building a Vehicle, they want to make it a CHEAP as possible, with NO Consideration for the Passangers.

[@bikeaddictbp]

@@markplott4820 Wrong, but your mind is probably made up. I'm involved in the automation for welding bodyshells together, and what I'm seeing here is very comparable to that of any other manufacturer.

[@markplott4820]

@@bikeaddictbp - then why is Model 3 5 Stars in every Category and GM and Ford not ? also, why is Tesla 9% SAFER than any other car with Autopilot ? TESLA is factually SAFER with Millions of miles Driven with ZERO Fatalities TESLA does modular doors , similar to FAC and BMW, why does not GM & Ford do door modules ? Tesla 2 piece casting is Almost unherd of in the Auto Industry, and soo to be SINGLE piece casting.

[@MrCarGuy]

@@markplott4820 Give it up. You're an overly biased Tesla troll. Allow yourself to look at the facts for once.

[@bikeaddictbp]

@@markplott4820 Other manufacturers also have 5-star crash-rated vehicles. This video is not about autopilot or headlights or any of the other stuff. And the claim that Tesla has zero fatalities is pretty easy to refute ... I need only find one, www.zdnet.com/article/tesla-fatal-model-3-crash-autopilots-operational-design-condemned/ I will give credit where credit is due; the casting design for the rear underbody is good, and using door modules is good.

[@GregRobsonUK]

It appears our obsession with better engine/motor power and torque means nothing if the bodywork isn't right. Another insightful video from Sandy. :-)

[@justinmallaiz4549]

Okay, now that the sheet metal is out of the way.. let’s get a 1 hour deep dive into that heat pump..

[@MunroLive]

More to come on the heat pump. Stay-tuned.

[@BillB33525]

@@MunroLive Just watched a video of a Model Y driver who said the heat pump blew him out in cold Colorado weather; Performs much better than the resistive heater in the Model 3.

[@stevenrobidas]

Anyone else think Sandy is amazing? Love these videos!

[@odnac1965]

Really enjoyed the series. Never knew there was so much design and engineering in a car body. Hope you will continue this series with an ICE car

[@BeeCeeNJ]

Mind blown. What a great episode. Wonderful explanations for such complex engineering. Great work Sandy!

[@fanaticvandal472]

Sandy must say you have a lot of knowledge, keep up the great work

[@Jimmy_Jones]

Love the editing in this.

[@xiticix4746]

You're freaking us all out grabbing at those metal bits without gloves lol

[@nicoleqte]

Very interesting, as always! Can you please talk about corrosion protection of these pieces - particularly on the inside and welded areas? I am surprised I haven’t seen any wax or other protection there.

[@rmwarriors16]

I have never seen a video on body weld and design. Very interesting. I love it. Keep up the good work!!

[@wickiss]

Great material, and fascinating to see someone knowledgeable deconstruct a vehicle, and provide information on the assembly methods with experienced engineering commentary. P.S. Munro Live, if available you should turn on KZbin adds, to help generate a little extra income during the Cvoid-19 pandemic.

[@TheDmd4343]

Who else thinks "Andy" is just Sandy in a mask? :D

[@Yutani_Crayven]

Solipsism wins again

[@evanlacava9213]

Hahaha possibly 👌🏻

[@lylestavast7652]

Easy to understand explanations - thanks Sandy :)

[@gadashiagbor112]

As always, thanks for the video uncle Sandy

[@zagabog]

Are they using the mass damper as a sacrificial anode? so as to keep rust down on the steel.

[@hmspain52]

Symphony? I think the word you are looking for is ballet :-). Nice presentation Sandy, thank you!

[@typxxilps]

can not wait to see the final details of that unibody uncovered and burned out all the spotwelds to show the current state of engineering. That welded hatch or bracket was also an interesting piece ... needed a second part and positioning and clamping both together to get a right spot weld instead of your idea to cut and bend. Lot easier, less pieces to order and handle and cheaper for sure.

[@ghostindamachine]

So insightful!

[@bobrichards6696]

Thanks Sandy, great show. Stay safe mate 😷👍

[@S2kDude36]

Hi Sandy, I believe what you call the air arc welder is actually a plasma cutter. Years ago I worked for Hypertherm and designed some of their equipment.

[@madgaming3172]

Thank you for those wonderful videos Sandy. I was wondering, since Tesla decided to make the rear underbody out of 2 big castings plus 2 brakets/support and soon 1, would it make sense to have similar 1 or 2 piece casting for the front? Or is it better to have multiple layers for better strength? Or is it because you have aluminium and steel parts and that would complicate casting? Would love your insight into that. Keep up those great videos :)

[@Raylen_Fa-ield]

When do you start testing the blue model Y

[@utingabernardo8205]

Love your comment about body engineers ... and I fully agree ;-)

[@ecospider5]

Fantastic series. I have learned a ton watching this.

[@seanz6586]

Awesome! Thanks again!

[@abogoni]

This is super interesting - I never knew there was so much to a body

[@einseitig3391]

Outstanding. I have learned so much. Many thanks.

[@richardalexander5758]

So informative, thanks!

[@mjmellock]

Thank you!

[@evanlacava9213]

Getting more comfortable in the vids love it. Keep it up 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@utingabernardo8205]

This sort of "crush can" be easily changed (in case of an impact) reducing repair costs. The use of an extruded profile increases the energy absorption substantially.

[@dezbriel9981]

He is going to put everything back together and ride it 😎

[@radi334]

Good video again many thanks 🙏. Can you give us some insights how the waterfowl in the body looks like, I assume it should always be able to exit the body without getting stuck at some place and starting to corrode parts of it. Best regards Christoph

[@MarkLLawrence]

Rapidly approaching 50k subscribers. I bet he'll hit 100k subscribers easily.

[@MunroLive]

We hope so! Tell your friends.

[@nycandre]

Another very informative and entertaining session - great! Am also curious, after a few months of production, will the design be mostly frozen (or should I say cast in iron) because of the significant investment already made in setting up the automated assembly line - or are changes/ improvements still possible with minor adjustments? For example that section at 2:54 shows a pretty complex design, it probably is pretty well optimized already - but how do we know it can't be improved further ? Maybe for the Shanghai version and then the Berlin version ..

[@bikeaddictbp]

It's not impossible for changes to be made at this point, but it's at a point where it's really expensive to make such changes. Obviously if they tool up to build a similar vehicle at a different plant, that's an opportunity to include lessons learned. You might see tolerance changes to address fitment, but engineering changes - even weld-position changes - can affect crash performance, and re-validating that gets expensive. The area you identified does look complicated but the main tough part is done ... figuring out how to build it in the first place. That area has to support and distribute suspension loads, and distribute frontal crash loads into the door ring and firewall and floor, and provide attachment points for all sorts of gadgets and gizmos under the hood (HVAC, brake lines, brake master cylinder for RHD, electrical and cooling system parts, etc), and not trap water in a way that leads to corrosion, and it has to be possible and practical to make the parts and weld them together. The area you identified tends to be pretty complex on just about any modern unibody vehicle.

[@matthewabogado2834]

As always thanks 🙏

[@andymacleod2365]

What is the method used to stop the aluminum & steel body panels forming a battery themselves and body corrosion being a long-term problem?

[@ke6gwf]

I only have one complaint about this video... That's NOT an Air-Arc lol An Air Arc is a totally different, and even hotter, tool.. Basically its a hollow, copper coated, carbon electrode that goes into a special electrode holder which blows high pressure air through the hollow core. It basically looks like a large stick welder holder and electrode. It then connects to a LARGE arc welder power supply. You strike an arc just like with an stick welder, and it melts a weld pool just the same (though with hundreds of amps), and then the high pressure air blows the molten metal away. As you can imagine, it creates a BIG cloud of sparks! Quite fun to operate, very noisy, but beautiful curtains of molten steel everywhere. What they were using here was a plasma cutter, which is also an awesome tool, but much more delicate and precise. Like the difference between using a scalpel and a chainsaw to cut the turkey lol

[@andygranger3662]

Wonderful video.

[@ADOENDRA]

Yes it is a art to design the rigth frime with the right material knowledge and production steps . " Don't let kids on the job " is the right expression. And i saw kids working on a frame just because they tought they know how a car is build. ( Wish i could post some pictures ;-) ) In general these designers worked with tier hands in the past . BUT ,what i really like to know is if you found any glue between the panels which are spot welded ?

[@ralphnolletti9988]

Wow,wow,wow,wow,wow,.........................Wow Sandy!

[@macko-dad]

@6:15 It is allowed to use lead for building car parts ?

[@koeniglicher]

It's definitely allowed in lead-acid batteries. In other applications, at least EU regulations try hard to reduce the use of lead in places, where it is hard to recover in the recycling process. See ELV Directive (2000/53/EC).

[@Stroporez]

This is some awesome content!

[@hansconser3414]

Sandy, I have two questions: 1) the lack of paint on the interior surfaces, does this make the vehicle more prone to rust damage? 2) The aluminum rivet attaching steel and aluminum together, will this be a spot for galvanic corrosion?

[@zackj997]

Hans Conser the interior is all aluminum which doesn’t rust

[@hansconser3414]

@@zackj997 I'm referring to the interior of the front motor bay

[@MB-zu4gc]

Why does frames drop from smooth to choopy in between? is it in recording or editing? Content is good and detailed.

[@nilsfrederking62]

Thanks! Very interesting, and now imagine that this whole body in white is casted in one part, you then can adjust the thickness of the material exactly how it is needed at the according area of the body in white. 3mm thick Aluminum casting equals approximately 1 mm of steel regarding weight. Furthermore you can cast struts where useful to strengthen the surfaces (as is done with the motor housings).

[@nilsfrederking62]

@Stephen Graham That is as generalization not true, as you can design parts with the same strength as for example formed sheet metal youth only may have different material thicknesses. And that is the interesting part, you can adjust the thickness very accurately to the load profile of the part. Furthermore you can cast in braces to give the part three dimensional strength. It depends very much of the use case whether a casting is better or bend sheet metal.

[@nilsfrederking62]

@Stephen Graham I think for the rigidity of the passenger cell a single casted part is advantageous, the only draw back is, that in a collision where the passenger cell is deformed the repair might be much more expensive, the manufacturing will be dramatically easier and thus cheaper with such an approach.

[@nilsfrederking62]

@Stephen Graham Yes, very difficult indeed, and the mold(s) are very expensive, but for mass market cars like Model Y and Model 3 it makes sense. I recommend having a look at Teslas "giant casting machine" patent. They are definitely working and for sure they calculated it. Such casting is not available today so they are developing it. The passenger cell is made out of 80 parts that have to be put together, that needs a lot of robots, space and time, I am quite sure that an injection molding in a fraction of a second is much cheaper, when producing high quantities.

[@johncampbell5197]

Fantastic!!!

[@zezizarjaars]

6:35 If you put steel on Aluminum you get corrosion right?

[@johncampbell4214]

THANK YOU!!

[@free_spirit1]

Can you recommend any good books on all the different joining methods?

[@RockitFX1]

That's a lot of parts! Wouldn't there be value in also casting these sections of the vehicle? 🤔

[@MyFirstYoutubeHandle]

9:18 that feeling you get when you realize you’re moving your head to try and see something on a video...

[@KrisFlix]

Love watching your videos

[@augnkn93043]

I assume that there is something in the tube that the crush can goes in that retards its movement in a crash? update: I see that the crush can does not move it just squishes up. so the bolts and the steel bit hold it in place.

[@PerkasaJob]

Does it means, these body parts will be replaced by injection molding in one injection ?

[@fraziboy]

Which automaker/s are making the best bodies? in your opinion Sandy

[@FutureSystem738]

Damn it Sandy- you’ve ruined a beautiful car, (though not as quickly as a crash test. LOL :-) Fascinating- thanks! The more I see, the more amazed I am at the brilliant work going in to these cars!

[@piccalillipit9211]

*FIRST TIME EVER* I have hears someone say you can weld aluminium and steel... I saw a guy in Bulgaria weld an aluminium electric window motor to the steel frame of the car door with a mig welder - which I thought was impossible - but he did it.

[@nhbilly]

I love this stuff, interesting.

[@lachoneu2]

Variation is the killer of automation.

[@alonso5146]

Is it me or is he starting to look like dr Emmet Brown with that hair? 😊

[@stephenpahl7538]

Is having a many part front end OK when fewer parts in the rear is the choice ?

[@niconico3907]

The front and back of a car do a very different job.

[@kam_iko]

2:55 unless of course, you’re designing the model 3 body for tesla ;)

[@DavidSpiers]

That's not going together again. Really hope when Tesla opens the GF in Germany they open up for tours, would love to see this all coming together. Now that I've seen, some of, it coming apart I'll maybe know what to look out for.

[@kam_iko]

David Spiers you can go and watch the vw e-golf assembly in dresden.

[@eduardoig17]

what camera are they using to film these videos?? it get so much choppyness when they pan. must be an Android phone

[@brucec954]

Was hoping to see if he could put the car back together again -guess not.

[@BrackenDawson]

You don't want to use lead for your mass damper unless you are very short on space, it costs many times more than iron or steel and it's bad for the environment if it doesn't get recovered from the body when it's recycled. Of course if you're REALLY short on space you can go for depleted uranium!

[@grahambrown42]

Could those complex inner wings be cast?

[@geofrancis2001]

i doubt it would crash properly with a casting.

[@grahambrown42]

geofrancis2001 The ‘crush cans’ could still be separate aluminium parts to be bolted in to the cast inner wing.

[@bikeaddictbp]

The front inner fender and rail has a complex job of transferring front crash loads into the door ring (distributed between the windshield pillar and rocker panel areas) and has to itself be deformable in a predictable way in case of a hard frontal crash that goes beyond the capability of the removable "crash cans" to absorb. Castings tend to be brittle and simply crack or explode into a thousand pieces, as opposed to bending and absorbing energy while doing so the way stamped and formed sheet metal does. Perhaps it "could" be done that way, but sometimes it's better to use a solution that you know works.

[@jasonsun3695]

You know during this video series I kept wondering if they were going to put the car back together at some point. I think this one answered my question.

[@baconwithmusic93]

"Tzzz Tzzz Tzzz Tzzz"