Modern Pankration is safe space MMA

[@lordMartiya]

Pretty sure that MMA is the closest thing we have to ancient Pankration.

[@Red_Neck]

Pretty much just without ground and pound

[@MrDioXIII]

​@@Red_Neck Pretty much. Can't do ancient Pankration rules, that was basically anything goes until your opponent tapped or died. Trachea thumbing, finger breaking, no eye gouging or biting though. Then apparently things like position in the ring mattered because the games would be held outdoors in the sun, so having the sun behind you was ideal. That being said, some guys have done modern Pankration (with other stuff) and gone on to do very well in MMA, the two most famous being Khabib and Demitrious Johnson.

[@rafaelcarrera9436]

@@Red_Neck wasn't ancient Pankration also done nekkid? I don't think the state athletic commissions would go for that...maybe California.

[@81runaway]

old pankration is a bit more dangerous

[@lordMartiya]

@@81runaway Of course. We were talking of CLOSEST thing after all.

[@elenchus]

Pankration (and Greco-Roman wrestling) is proof that hijacking ancient history and folklore for marketing purposes isn't just for Eastern martial arts. All the cool kids are doing it.

[@vossburton3437]

Isn't Greco-Roman wrestling legit tho?

[@elenchus]

@@vossburton3437 the martial art is legitimate as means for winning fights, it's just that the style isn't Greek or Roman.

[@tichtran664]

@@elenchus And the founder of MODERN Pankration ISN'T THE DIRECT HEIR TO ANCIENT PANKRATION. All he did was look at the pottery pictures and statues, read some books and LEARN OTHER MARTIAL ARTS. Incuding PRO WRESTLING(since back then it was MOSTLY THE ONLY WAY to learn catch wrestling). That why you see the Franksteiner/hurancarana in modern pankration.

[@llawliet3733]

@@elenchus The Style of Wrestling performed in the Ancient Olympics is that Style that we call Greco-Roman today. So its actually Greek.

[@elenchus]

@@llawliet3733 Greco-Roman wrestling is quite recent, and French. It has no connection to Greek or Roman wrestling.

[@ElijahLoganmaztrpeac3official]

Despite the concept that anything was allowed in ancient pankration, there were two rules: no eye gouging and no biting. While that might sound fairly common sense to many today it was especially important as Spartans were known to train with such measures as a part of the sport as that was an expected tactic of war

[@GuitarsRockForever]

Ancient Olympic game sound hardcore, unlike modern Olympic game which ruins every combat sport. If you want your combat sport to be effective, stay out of Olympic.

[@Ernest_XX]

The spartans were banned from pankration because they were too good

[@a.i3870]

There was actually a third rule in some forms of Pankration, no strikes to the groin, with those three rules it's very similar to the first ever UFC, gouging could also mean no gouging ears or wounds. Also Spartans had their own Pankration that had no rules

[@ioannisbougios1451]

The "referees" of the time the Elanodikes(Ελανοδίκες) would also whip the competitors for cheating.

[@rodgerbane3825]

@@GuitarsRockForever Boxing. Freestyle Wrestling.

[@steffanofumo]

I’ve visited a few Pankration gyms when living in Europe and what I got was watered down MMA with strikes to the body, and people that wanted to feel special because they practice a “ancient art”, same type of crowed that would go to a Muay Boran gym and think it’s more effective because it’s more obscure or “exotic”.

[@aluisiofsjr]

It is funny because modern Pankration is fake, it is a recreation of a long dead martial art. Nothing in modern Pankration is legitimate.

[@michaelterrell5061]

@@aluisiofsjr Well it’s totally legit as an effective style, but isn’t actually historically accurate as a style.

[@llawliet3733]

@Jared Lind Pankration was basically Boxing + Freestyle Wrestling. The Arsenal also includes: Elbowhook and Downward Elbow Hammerfist (Downward, Diagonal and from guarding) Palmstrikes (open and half closed hand) Straight kneestrike Frontkick with the heel to the Stomach Front and Side Obliquekick Kick to the inside of opponents knee from clinch Rear Naked Choke One handed trachea grip Choke Armbar Kimura Straight Ankle Lock Heelhook Shoulderthrow

[@llawliet3733]

@Jared Lind Search for Pankration channel on KZbin. There you find two Videos about Punches and kicks where the channel owner reconstructs Techniques based on their depiction on vases from that time. Another Video I can recommend is Human Weapon: Pankration

[@llawliet3733]

@Jared Lind But with that what we have you would actually get a practible and usefull Arsenal. Of course its pretty basic and far from that what is known today but we can assume that ancient Pankration is the rawest and most minimalistic form of MMA that was known at that Time

[@masterwrong4933]

Pan cakes are tasty, yeah

[@RamseyDewey]

Especially in da streetz!!!

[@AeolethNionian]

Modern Pancakes are made in safe space Mess Mixing Arts. Must be practiced in a safe space as the battlefield is too dangerous to make such food.

[@TheBrianp1]

@@RamseyDewey Seriously, have you ever seen pancakes in the street stalls or are they more a SE Asian thing.

[@FrodeFalch]

Pancake and bacon is the best

[@ZeroFucksLeft]

Pan cakes... PC... jesus christ. The dots are connecting. THEY'RE CONNECTING!!!!

[@stevensonchambers5577]

That package being delivered during this video was a angry certified letter from the International Pankration Association.

[@johnbig7145]

Pankration was the "sidearm" of soldiers in Ancient Greece. If the sword or spear was lost the soldier had to use his bare hands and legs. The most efficient Pankrationists were ancient spartans that knew how to fight to death using Pankration ( that is why they were permanently banned from Olympic Pankration ). Oh and it's not spelled as pan-kra-sion but more like pug-ra-Tion with t spelled as t and not S . Ancient Pankration was the unsafe space mma , it was way more brutal that early MMA days .

[@trasen5626]

Odd this came up, I just recently found a KZbin channel called Alpha Mu Omega (AMO Pankration) whose goal is to educate people on what pankration was with the hopes of reviving the actual sport.

[@gamespotlive3673]

Same

[@rodgerbane3825]

I think its hard for moderns to understand the level of grueling training undertaken by warrior societies where people were expected to train from childhood and that training was a matter of life and death, not just for the individual, but for their entire society as a whole. A Martial Artist would be someone who could kill with such a level of skill they made it look easy.

[@ferumcastrum4097]

Lol ancient greece wasn't just Sparta there were more city states like Athens. And they didn't train like the spartans. And pankration wasnt just practiced by the spartans, it was practiced by all greek city states.

[@professoryinyang258]

This is exactly the kind of content that makes this channel one of its kind. The embodiment of training the muscles, the heart and the brain.

[@bingsoo9559]

So Pankration means “all power” or “all skill” then it is much better as an idea rather than a martial art, use all that you have and don’t limit yourself to only one thing. I picked up a cool lesson today, thank you for answering this coach

[@ioannisbougios1451]

Pankration (pan{παν}=every +kratos{κράτος}=power). It can be translated as "by all means". A fun fact; from the early 6th cent B.C. Spartans were excluded from competing in pankration probably to reduce fatalities.

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Exactly! The Ancient Spartans were trained Killers practically from birth.

[@ioannisbougios1451]

@@UnexpectedWonder every aspect of life orbited around warfare in Sparta. They had the best hoplitodromoi as well

[@canismajoris6733]

Pretty sure this is a myth.

[@crazytazzify]

no , they just did not compete in fear others will see and copy their tactics in war.

[@ioannisbougios1451]

@@crazytazzify ancient Greeks were fighting in formation, concealing their skills in pankration doesn't make much sence.

[@conker690]

Hey Ramsey and friends, Ancient Greek boxers also wore heavy metal boxing gloves. The Iliad depicts a boxing match where two guys nearly killed each other in a fight after their gloves crashed into each other’s heads. You can also see statutes of boxers wearing the gloves and one statute depicts and older boxer complete with the kind of damage he received over the course of his career.

[@conker690]

@@davidgeldner2167 who does?

[@RobRecreated]

Whats the statue called?

[@conker690]

@@RobRecreated something like Boxer At Rest.

[@BorninPurple]

That's not true, Ancient Greek Boxers wore leather wraps, or a type of leather gloves (which was especially wrapped around the knuckles). In Pankration, from the illustrations we have, there is a mixture of both bare-knuckle and leather wraps.

[@spadedonemcdysentery2493]

“The Iliad depicts a boxing match where two guys nearly killed each other in a fight after their gloves crashed into each others heads.” Sooo, when they punched each other? In a boxing match?

[@zedek_]

~4:00 Just to clarify, you just couldn't use fists against the head. Body shots you could (and they would) punch.

[@bustr]

That makes sense to avoid breaking knuckles on someone's head. If MMA fighters didn't use wraps and gloves the striking game would look more like Pancrace.

[@bustr]

@Da Sheat Are you replying to me or Zedek?

[@geshadimitrov2106]

Well pancrase and pankration are a different terms actually - Bas Rutten was in Pancrase - it is an martial art sport organisation or rather was, while Pankration is that ancient greek sport

[@aluisiofsjr]

Yeap. "Pancrase" is just the name of the fight organization, similar to Shooto, Pride, Dream or UFC. Pancrase does not have any relation to Pankration, the Olympic ancient fighting.

[@aluisiofsjr]

David Geldner , why are you so butthurt, dude??? Do you have any Personality Disorder or something?

[@silasginell9251]

The way you looked over when the bell rang had me cracking up and rewinding 😂. Also good content and info on pankration

[@kaliyuddha]

We can't authoritatively state rules of ancient greek sports, because it varied dependant of time and, perhaps, location. Wrestling described in Homer's works (set in period before classical greek civilization and before greek dark ages) seems to correspond to ancient upright wrestling (which is common to all indoeuropean, caucasian, turkic and mongolian people and survives today in many belt/jacket wrestling variations). Some sources mention stand up version of pankration in greek colonies in Asia Minor with no fight on the ground allowed. Also there's question about pamachon; a vague term meaning something similar to our martial arts, yet there's surviving text about a bloke who competed separately in boxing, pankration and pammachon and won something.

[@Yggdraseed]

Personally, I'm fond of pankration in a similar sense to HEMA, as a form of experimental archaeology. They can offer ways to figure out how these ancient forms of combat worked in ways you can't just from reading texts or observing depictions of them. As to their effectiveness as martial arts, I can't speak to that; and as to their exact accuracy, especially in the case of pankration, it's as foggy as any other method we have to speak about the distant past. Still, I think it has value in that sense, and in the "all power/all skill" philosophy you described.

[@mattgchev]

What little pankration I've heard of where I live (Atlantic Canada) is basically kickboxing with limited Thai clinching on the feet, and no striking on the ground. I always thought it was, as you said, a safe MMA. I actually liked the idea myself, a way to get into it with some of the danger taken out of it, or for those of us who are a little older and/ or not looking to make a career, just have fun.

[@aluisiofsjr]

Did you were doing Pankration Athlima? This is more asian TMA than a proper HEMA.

[@varrickace465]

Sounds like sanda

[@Dale_The_Space_Wizard]

Why is modern Pankration not practiced nude?

[@RamseyDewey]

Now that’s the REAL question!

[@zechordlord]

@@RamseyDewey easy answer folks. The ancient Greeks were not ashamed of their bodies. However, christianity changed all that. After it became the prevalent religion of the Roman empire, the habits of competing religions ethical and philosophical systems had to be suppressed. Shame around nudity became the prevalent culture.

[@HaroldBluetooth-uz1zz]

@@zechordlordBeing nude is immoral and being naked in front of women or children is not a good look.

[@TristanBehrens]

I believe that the guy who broke his opponents fingers so they couldn't submit was a pankration fighter, but I could be wrong

[@AdobadoFantastico]

A lot of these you have to check sources because people conflate stories from the 3 a lot.

[@martiallife4136]

Yes he did break fingers but he won once he did that. A submission in ancient Greece was for you to raise up your hand and wave your finger.

[@TristanBehrens]

@@martiallife4136 Won makes it seem a lot better than it was. He supposedly broke their fingers so they couldn't submit and then killed them...

[@TristanBehrens]

@@rifasclub No, he said it was wrestling

[@robtron2]

If I had a choice between being an awesome fighter, and having your voice, I’d choose the latter hands down. It’s awesome.

[@RamseyDewey]

Hahaha! Thanks.

[@mma_misha]

pankration in eastern europe is pretty much mma on a wrestling matt with protection gear

[@user-ex9pl8eh7c]

Pankration has been severely diminished in its modern competitive form, yet it was not created for sport but for battle in order to prevail against anyone as its name suggests Pan(all) Kratos (power) a.k.a. all-powerful. A toned-down version was included in the Olympics, but in reality, it was a weapon and that is why not all moves were allowed, not to mention all the deaths that would occur. YES it is now a safe space MMA as you suggest (although it would be great if you clarified you are talking about modern Pankration prior to making that statement), and you are also right about open hand strikes, and that is one of the reasons I decided not to go into pro contests myself, but Pankration is much richer than that. The true Pankration contains all manner of strikes using all four limbs completely (fists, elbows, open palm, finger strikes and pinches to pressure points, knees, spinning kicks, flying kicks-punches, and especially front kicks) but each strike is circumstantial and should be used only when most beneficiary (as for example knees and elbows are best employed up close and personal - grappling-ground). No biting, or eye-gouging. The grappling side can be divided into standing and ground (locks, chokes, throws, escapes -oh so many escapes) moves that are meant to be fluidly interchangeable to gain the upper hand in any situation, using the laws of mechanics and the human body. There are also some especially deadly techniques called climaxes or scales (klimakes), where you start demolishing a person from the limb you managed to lock up (leg or arm), proceeding towards usually the neck or back, breaking joints as you go (imagine King from TEKKEN). A less known side of Pankration is Πολυδάμας (Polydamas, which means ''to tame many''), where you learn unarmed techniques to defend against bladed weapons, bludgeoning weapons, and even evasions when choked from behind with a rope or cord, etc. So speaking in plain terms, you definitely would not want to face off with a Pankration practitioner in the street. For the record, I have practiced and studied/ researched various martial arts over the years including Pankration, and I am Greek. Thank you for giving a glimpse of Pankration to the world with your video, spread the word! Peace

[@MrBrandonStar]

Hey is roundhouse kicks allowed in Pankration

[@user-ex9pl8eh7c]

They are allowed but they are so easily defendable and also that defense leads up to a climax and takedown. So you are advised to avoid them but can still use them.

[@metalgamedog]

I would like real combat like pankration to return, also because until the early 2000s it was not called pankration, but valetudo, the only thing that has always been done in a ring with ropes or in a cage that has always benefited one of the two fighters, the ideal would have been to do it with a large space where neither of the 2 fighters was going to hit the ropes or cage ... I hope that some federation can build pankration with nhb rules and do it in an unrestricted free space. great video greetings from Italy 🇮🇹

[@RamseyDewey]

How are you going to fight in an unrestricted space? Eventually, you’ll run into the border anywhere you fight.

[@RamseyDewey]

How are you going to fight in an unrestricted space? Eventually, you’ll run into the border anywhere you fight.

[@pranakhan]

Modern Dance? That's cool. I wanted to study it for a long time, but I found the idea of it scarier than martial arts for some reason. After this pandemic has wound down, I think I'll go for it. The best part about Pankration is training in the sand, which is awesome. An oily massage after is also pretty badass

[@GoblinLord]

Ramsey's jaw looks like it can kill me, just the jaw, ultimate chad jaw

[@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935]

At my first mma gym, exactly 10 years ago, pankration for us was all regular amateur mma rules, except no strikes to the head/face. Could strike the body and legs normally, and all regular mma grappling rules. Just no strikes to the head. Sometimes us amateur guys would spar that style of pankration, and sometimes wed spar regular. It definitely helped some of us, me included get used to the idea of someone attacking you. I struggled with strikes to the face the most, but everything else I could handle well. Our training and conditioning was pretty good. My ability to take body shots was pretty good. I remember taking a good solid roundhouse to the solarplex(sparring match), obsorbing it, and feeling fine and continuing on.

[@petrospago3515]

in my opinion the best fighting style is the one that combines all good aspects of other fighting styles punching style and defense from boxing, kicking techniques from muai thai and grappling techniques for grappling greek pankration mixed with Brasilian jujitsu

[@richardmolloy6064]

Your knowledge is insurmountable thankyou!

[@MegaPieman21]

As someone whos been training and competed in modern pankration here in Sydney since 2013 Sadly i have to agree with Ramsey that its has changed quite abit. Due to the nature of pankration being a amateur sport and our governing world body (WPAF) believing that we have a chance to re establish ourselves as an Olympic sport (Yeah, good luck with that) we have been limited in our shot selection during competition dispite training for full contact. That being said our competitions generally have 4 specific categories of competition 1. Pyx lax (kickboxing following similar rules to kyokushin) 2. Pali (submission wrestling) 3.Full argon or pankration (mma with limited shot selection) 4. Polythama (self defence demo based off the legend of Polythama) Unfortunately as a martial art I feel that modern Pankration is often looked over as a "safe space mma" or some blokes trying to LARP but the system itself isn't about that. Pankration today is about adhering to and following the core beliefs and values of our Ancient Greek brothers and sisters on and off the mats, it's the ethos that I will use everything I can to get the job done and for those with a greek heritage and a love for the martial arts (such as myself) it's our way of remembering and honouring our ancestors by sharing and training their favourite past time Apologies for the long post hopefully you guys got something out of this and if you guys have any questions I'll do my best to help

[@llawliet3733]

I guess the Limited Shot selection is due to the fact that the old Greeks didnt know all the Techniques. Pankration is basically ancient MMA. But you can only mix what you already know. Pankration is Boxing plus Freestyle Wrestling plus basic kicks Submissions and Throws. When you watch the Human Weapon Video about Pankration you will see that the Techniques who are labeled as Master Techniques there are absolute basic stuff which can be learned by beginners

[@ethnicalbert]

@@llawliet3733 the ancient greeks knew how to punch to head.....

[@llawliet3733]

@@ethnicalbert Of course

[@ethnicalbert]

@@llawliet3733 so the shot selection is not because the anceint greeks didnt know the techniques... it's to make it safer

[@llawliet3733]

@@ethnicalbert yup

[@DP-dd6hl]

Pankration was literally the 1st form of mma. However just like all martial arts it has been watered down by rules because of sports competition. Pankration was the Greek combat system which also featured in their games. It was also split to see who were the best at striking and at grappling hence boxing and wrestling came out of it. In theory all mma practitioners are classical pankrationist. Less rules the better as it was a combat system for war.

[@llawliet3733]

The only things forbidden now are the breaking of Small joints, 12 to 6 Elbows and Stomping the Head. But in Exchange modern MMA has so much more Techniques which can be used.

[@BorninPurple]

Hi Ramsey, Pankration, in Greek, is pronounced "Pan-Krat-ee-on" (the I is a long vowel). The P is also pronounced as a B.

[@BorninPurple]

Comment corrected: the P is pronounced as a B.

[@nickp2139]

@@BorninPurple you are wrong, in Greek p is pronounced as a soft p. In some accents such as Cypriot it almost sounds like a b

[@kevingray4980]

Fun fact. No modern languages sound remotely the same as their parent languages from 1000+ years ago.

[@angelsjoker8190]

In English, it's actually also "Pan-Krat-ee-on" as it's derived from Greek and not a typical French "-tion" loanword with origins in Latin which have made the regular phonetical transition to "-shn", but as people don't know, the "-shn" pronunciation is usually accepted.

[@achilleuspetreas3828]

@@kevingray4980 duh, but the word is still Greek and I'm Greek it's pronounced "pan -GRA-tee-on". Nobody is saying to pronounce it the original way (even though the only difference with this word would be originally a k sound instead of a g as in Modern Greek when kappa is before a gamma or any nasal sound. Greek has changed extremely little compared to most languages). But a Greek word is a Greek word. At the same time, the way he pronounced it is the proper English pronunciation, as stupid as it sounds

[@GuitarsRockForever]

Safe space is a term you don't want to use. It means something terrible these days.

[@RamseyDewey]

It sure does

[@ogreevans]

Its cool to hear about Pancrase. It was a fun promotional idea basically (from my understanding was) basically "pro wrestling rules" but as an actual sporting competition.

[@UnleashedTraining101]

Thems fightin' words bro 😜. Nah I agree. My first grappling sport was pankration. I quite liked it since our training was mostly grappling and I was already training in muay Thai. So I was really just looking for no gi grappling. Back then, in 2001, all the BJJ places around here were all about the gi. Don't get me wrong though, I still loved doing BJJ too.

[@shml5093]

Hey coach, do you have any advise about training in small spaces or outside when its cold? I live in a mostly worm area but this past week was full of extremely powerfull and cold winds and I had to stay in my house which doesn't have any big rooms so I can't really move around very much in it. I would love to hear your advise.

[@Akr0n24]

Coach made a video called "Training with no space and Update on COVID-19 in China " 3 weeks ago, you should check it out.

[@PlayboyKev]

This guy has a good speaking voice

[@RamseyDewey]

Thanks

[@stealth7476]

Pancration looks like an ancient MMA

[@llawliet3733]

Thats it basically. It has some of the most Standard Techniques from all disciplines and mashes it into a Hybrid martial art.

[@llawliet3733]

The True Irony is that Pankration means All Skill but there werent that much Techniques. Aside from the Fingerbreaking of course, modern MMA has a much bigger Arsenal than Pankration. Combat Sambo due to its Rules and its Uniform actually is the closest to what Pankration could have been when all the Techniques were already known.

[@nabilmjalli6393]

pankration means all power, ancient pankration techniques can be literally seen in modern MMA

[@martinflood8595]

I have been playing Rocket League (videogame) and have been having a lot of success, recently, by approaching it as a fight for positioning and meaningful possession rather than just winning. I have slow reaction times so strategy is everything to me. I would love to learn more about formation and positioning but do not know where to look. Each mode (1vs1 2vs2 & 3vs3) feels different but plays the same. Love from Scotland

[@Altitudes]

I didn't expect to see a comment like this when I scrolled down but 1v1 is all about covering angles and knowing when to retreat and when to press. The other modes you want to search for videos on rotation. In 3v3 you get the most cover but also have the most to be alert for. Essentially, the first player should be pressing the ball (or in possession), the second player is waiting for where the challenge or pass will go, and the third playing rotates away from play in case an attack forms. After the first player makes his attempt on the ball he becomes the "third player" and ought to rotate back to defence. The second player moves in on the ball, and the third moves up to support. Repeat the cycle, adjusting for whatever happens. 2v2 is sort of the same but with fewer players. The biggest mistake people make is not retreating and rotating back so that the second player can make a challenge, OR because they haven't retreated if the second player loses the challenge then there's no defence.

[@martinflood8595]

@@Altitudes You sound like a great teammate and your definitely correct. I'm looking for other real world marshal strategies, like "the bull", that work in game. If you play 1s thinking of it as a training spar that fixed so many of my errors better than any tutorial has.

[@__azzzul__]

Wow didn’t know you made a video on this thank you

[@jettfuelfitness]

I’m sure it gets annoying seeing all the comments about bas rutten and open hand strikes, however he has specifically said that he thinks open hand strikes are better for hitting the head without any hand protection. He did ALSO use close hand strikes in pankration (to the body), and later when he had access to gloves in MMA he of course used them to the head too.

[@TheStrongVirus]

It took me some time, but I found a modern one, pretty far away from where I live. Went there... it was no different from MMA except in a lot of the MMA groups I've been to there's a grappling day and a striking day for learning, then a sparring day. Pankation where I went was a combination of grappling to striking when learning, so they'd have the other person you are facing do a few strikes and then finish in a kick and that's the bit they tell you to rush in on for whatever grab they were teaching, then they were also teaching striking while on the ground. But... No sparring. You just practice on each other, take turns. The Instructor was nice, people there were nicer and had more respect for "newer" members than a lot of MMA groups I've been to in the past, where I guess the sparring gets some people weirdly competitive when they don't need to be. But yeah, it was good. It looked pretty cool, was fun, I preferred it to some martial arts, like Karate and Taekwondo, where everyone just does these sequences and you have this pretty lame instructor guy. I'm fine with not competitively fighting or preparing to beat people up, so, I don't mind if it's not like actual ancient history, I guess because safety and suing is a thing it has loads of rules?? but yeah.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Olympic back in the days sounds way better than the watered down, flashy and boring martial art competitions in modern Olympics

[@masterwrong4933]

The only sport I care that isn't in the Olympics is booty slap competition.

[@daniel-zh9nj6yn6y]

The Pancrase KZbin channel has matches from the Bas Rutten era.

[@zekelerossignol7590]

Spoonerism at the beginning. The Greeks pronounced it as "pank-rat-i-on", for the record. It originally consisted of more striking than grappling (hence, "full-force") and theres reconstruction groups for it and its 2 constituent martial arts, pygmachia and pale, on fb. Also, the late Mike Cartier had been working on its reconstruction here: sites.google.com/site/historicalpankration/home/articles/pankration-training-guide

[@pietrodelacuesta756]

pancrase is now just MMA promotion using unified MMA rules

[@stephanwatson7902]

The Greek's Pankration, was really a mixed martial art; with techniques from the Greek nations and likely from the other nearby nations. Yet Spartan pankration allowed eye gouging and groin strikes, in order to be more like a real fight. Why I like MMA + JKD

[@LoneMyth]

I agree the moment you put rules in pankration is no longer pankration.

[@Meanietube]

According to myth, Pankration was created by Hercules who wrestled the Nemean Lion to death with a rear naked choke because the lion's skin was magical and invulnerable to weapons and strikes. Who would win, Hercules or Bruce Lee??

[@jonathanlochridge9462]

So, more recently I have seen some attempts to basically approach Pankration as being Wrestling HEMA. from a more academic perspective. And in the ancient ruleset pankration allowed open hand strikes. But they also used closed fists too. But they weren't taped and gloved. But in most organizations it is just a weird marketing thing. And it would be more honest to just say they are doing wrestling.

[@Emperor_x8]

For some reason every time I think of pancreation I think of someone like Angela Lee who's a phenomenal boxer and kickboxer and a submission specialist but has weak takedowns defense and ends up winning by submission all the time

[@Enric0W]

Wassup Ramsey, what's your opinion on MMA fighters training 3x a day 6 days a week? How does this make sense? I've seen a bunch of fighters that do that and they'll often be injured and not able to fight.

[@i-t2447]

Pankration pan-caketion haha

[@michaelabercrombie7698]

Remember Rutten got in trouble for punching Frank Shamrock. You started talking about my boy Bas my ears perked up. Also they can watch all his Pancrase matches on KZbin.

[@DiplomChiller]

You told the myth with the broken "finger" wrong. Actually the guy getting strangled to death broke his opponents toe while dying. His opponent then surrendered out of pain, so the dead guy was declared victor.

[@RamseyDewey]

That’s a different story.

[@Gyrodyssey]

Great Video!

[@stephanwatson7902]

All Powers "Use anything that works". I've recently had these supposed JKD people debating with me, claiming they don't need to know how to grapple or wrestle; that all you have to do is poke someone's eyes. One even said "I grappled with a bjj blue belt and he couldn't do anything because I could always reach his eyes." They don't understand, if you can't fight you're not likely going to be able to poke someone's eyes, especially while being grounded pounded. They also don't seem to understand that you can't just poke, or gouge someone's eyes because you're in a fight with them; you have to match force and can really only do these more damaging techniques when you are under threat of great bodily injury or death (at least here in America). They also kept saying things like Jiu-Jitsu or wrestling don't work because they're just sports. Yes we have modern sports that use these names, but many of the techniques of Jiu-Jitsu goes back to when the samurai used it and wrestling has been used by Warriors throughout history. Just because we now have sports based around these Styles, doesn't mean that they aren't effective in a real fight.

[@gokussj397]

Hey Ramsey! How are you doing today? I hope you do well? I know Garry Tonon from submission grappling, and One FC because of him. Never heard about it before. Can you maybe compare the level of One FC compared to the UFC or Bellator? And how do you think Garry Tonon would do in the last two organisations?

[@gxtmfa]

I double this!

[@Grizzledbum22]

I practice modern Pankration under Sensei Alrey Handrich. Highly effective art if it isn’t diluted from sports influences.

[@manuelsustaita8097]

Would you say pankration is similar to shooting fighting or catch wrestling?

[@leispamaan4391]

Las MMA modernas son un espacio seguro del pancracio de la antigua Grecia, son como el agua que calientas porque le temes al agua fría. Queremos que vuelvan los dedos luxados, las entrañas saliendo ensangrentadas, los golpes a la traquea y los muertos en la arena. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 En realidad las artes marciales son hermosas y hay para todos los gustos, cada quien decide que es lo que más le gusta y no por hacer mma eres mejor que otros, he visto a muchos practicantes de mma perder con luchadores de un solo arte marcial e incluso con practicantes de pancracio moderno, todo depende de la persona, de su disciplina y el autoconocimiento. Lo importante es ser feliz y disfrutar lo que haces.

[@TheBrianp1]

Dance huh. You can dance, you can dance, take a look at my pants. Ah classic Homer.

[@SteveMiKr]

I always think of pancreas when I hear that term.

[@Gyrodyssey]

Hi Ramsey Dewey I have a question. If you have a permanent foot injury what are the best martial arts to train for both fitness, and self defence?

[@RamseyDewey]

Perpetual rehab.

[@lakshen47]

Archery.

[@mattfalzone3855]

So basically MMA or Krav Maga are the closet thing we have to ancient pankration.

[@llawliet3733]

MMA is just the modernized updated Version of Pankration. If you take away the Fingerbreaking but add all the Punches, Kicks, Throws, Holds and Submissions from todays common Combat Sports you get MMA

[@Bloodwyn99]

R read the title "Modern Parkinson in safe space MMA" and thought 'yep, that's what he will be talking about' Until 5:45 I was sure I read the title right

[@LeslieJones_RSTRCTD]

I believe it was called Pankrathon. 😇

[@jeanackle]

5:31 Sounds like IJF's plan for Judo. Sorry for the off topic, but, well...

[@ebooksguyguy7149]

Hey Ramsey could you do a video talking about gymnastics rings?

[@Yoshimitros]

Cool Video Coach!! I just wanted to let you know its pronounced "pan (like the "pan")- kra (like "crater" - tea (like "tea") - on (like... on, you get it!)

[@Al77343]

Bas didn't like to wear wraps (I don't know if he didn't wrap at all or wrapped a minimum)

[@Fanaro]

2:11 Who is this guy or legend name of this mythical open hand punch? I cannot find it anywhere.

[@JoeK-qd5dl]

For maximizing femoral bone density, Is it more advantageous to maximize single leg strength with exercises like dragon squats or kettlebell pistol squats Or to maximize total strength by squatting like a power lifter? Is it both? I don’t know lol. I’ve been out of the gym for 8 months from kicking related bone damage and my doctor said that bone strength is how I fix it

[@teeprice7499]

I have never met anyone who practices Pankration; I do understand it's a lot less effective now than it was, but the same is true of many martial arts. Practitioners aren't training to kill.

[@llawliet3733]

If you practice MMA with all its aspects you automatically practice Pankration. MMA is basically an updated Version of Pankration. Fingerbreaking is forbidden now and the Fighters wear Clothes but aside from that nearly all Techniques from Pankration are still used plus many more who were developted over time

[@OptimusSkiver]

Bro, now I'm completely distracted by the modern dance thing. You can't just drop that and walk away like this!

[@detoxicinspection]

Ancient Pankration was (and still is) one of the best martial arts / fight sport and a brilliant demonstration of human genius.

[@Cavouku]

I much prefer the term "pankration" or "pankratos" to "mixed martial arts"/MMA, to refer to an almost-anything-goes practice of 1v1 combat, but with the way things have developed, me poor heart thinks this is the way things are staying. For what it's worth, if they ever put "MMA" into the Olympics, it'll undoubtedly be one of the Pankration rulesets, and professional MMA will mostly carry on being its usual self, somewhat like what happened with boxing.

[@Shevchenko_DBR9]

Pankration is for people to try mma to see if they truly want to try a real ammy fight or not.

[@painandsorrowcards]

Something you said made me think would using an open hand strike have any advantage to a closed fist in a situation where your hand is not taped and gloved "in the streets" so to say?

[@mickel1634]

I always thought modern mma probably resembles acient pankration more than the acient variant...

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

Man you need more reading to do 🤔, ancient boxing was with closed fists and with wraps to avoid braking fingers and wrists from the power of the punches, it was a more lethwei type of striking except the throws and it was called pygmi "πυγμή". Pancration meant literary "to prevail or make someone submit using everything" the word comes from "παν " pan which means everything and" κράτος" Kratos which comes from the verb κρατώ , meaning I have entitlement over something or someone, it's mine. The rules of pancration were simple: submit your opponent with everything from your body, if you got out of the ring called palestra παλαιστρα, designated confined space, meant you submitted. The only thing forbidden was δακνειν και ορρυτειν , δακνειν means bite and ορρυτειν means "digging " the opponent. Pale, wrestling, had the rule to not strike and if you throw your opponent 3 times or submit him with Grabling you won.

[@aluisiofsjr]

It was basically what he said without those details.

[@LeslieJones_RSTRCTD]

This is what my memory was telling me as well. If you listen and interpret freely, he gets there after lots of ways around it... (When starting about the digging his fingers through someone's stomach)

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

@@LeslieJones_RSTRCTD Actually he said that ancient boxing had a rule about closed fists , in reality the closed fists were more practical for striking so it became the norm to wrap their hands with animal leather wraps so the wrists and fingers stayed in place and all together so that they don't break. Knees, elbows and headbutts were used , even kicks, but there was an unwritten knowledge that high kicks were dangerous to use in fighting so most athletes didn't use them or they did it just to play. So there wasn't a rule about closed fists. Also eye gouging was considered "digging" and an open fist could poke an eye and the athlete didn't want to lose by disqualification which was great dishonor. About pancration and wrestling there was a thing called akrochirismos "άκροχειρισμός " which meant the manipulation of limps mostly talking about the arms which started by manipulating the fingers till you manipulate all the hand and arm , sometimes there were fights only doing that, they started by grabbing the arms, armdraging or breaking whatever they could in order to make their opponent either submit or unable to fight effectively , Sostratos o sykionios used the breaking fingers technique to win the ancient Olympics but a century before him Leontiskos used it effectively for the first time. If you didn't follow the rules at that time period the referee had the freedom to hit you with a stick and if you did something against the rules to harm someone then you could be beaten by an angry mob of the viewers. The worse dishonor that was given to foul play was to write down your name to a marble column so neither you or your offspring can take part on the Olympics ever again.

[@joeithegiggityguy7342]

Do you recommend I drop to my knees when shooting a double? What are the pros and cons of dropping to my knees during a takedown?

[@RamseyDewey]

No. “Dropping” is always the wrong word to describe a level change for a shot. Shooting forward is a much better description. Whether or not your knee comes in contact with the floor when you shoot for a double leg, it should be your opponent that receives the impact, not your knee. Here’s a tutorial on shooting for a double without making contact with the floor with your knee in the context of MMA and BJJ. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5TIYXmfZcSbgdE In freestyle wrestling, it’s common to shoot much lower because the stances are much lower, in which case a duck walk penetration step is the order of the day. But even then, good wrestlers don’t “drop to their knees” they shoot their power leg between their opponent’s stance. The fact that the knee glides along the mat is incidental, not instructional.

[@jezwarren-clarke2471]

Getting in a ring with Bas Rutten didn’t look like a very safe space to me 😂😂😂

[@RamseyDewey]

And getting into the cage with him even less so

[@Altitudes]

Quick question unless you have a lot to say about it. Am I getting it right that you said punches are better because of the wraps fighters use? Would you think palm heel strikes would be similarly/more effective (or maybe just safer for the striker's hands) in a truly bare-knuckle situation?

[@RamseyDewey]

In a fight without gloves: hard weapons against soft targets, soft weapons against hard targets.

[@marcgoulet1967]

thanks

[@Mishkola]

This is probably a question you've gotten before, but given that you won't walk around with your hands wrapped, should martial artists learn to palms strike for self-defense preparedness. I know the first resort for self defense should be to avoid the confrontation, but I'm sure you understand the spirit of the question.

[@bubblewhip382]

Hey Ramsey, based on this I have been thinking about getting into the ring for the first time in MMA. I have done BJJ matches, but apprehensive to jump into an MMA fight. I was thinking of easing into it by doing a boxing or kick boxing match first. Is there any validity to starting your MMA by doing limited ruleset combat sports before mixing your martial arts? I feel like there would be less to think about and less overwhelming to prepare for all aspects. Thanks.

[@stevejuszczak9402]

It's all Greek to me

[@AquilaTheThunderer]

I fought two pankration matches under USA Federation of pankration athlima I love it!! everything is legal except hits to the head President Dave Sixel out of Wisconsin is trying to bring it back and make it popular again in the states

[@81runaway]

right on

[@ethanmanjhi4007]

Through Pankratation kung fu came

[@totenkopf1479]

When will you be visiting HK if ever? Are there any gyms in HK you recommend?

[@youlee8063]

My stablemate is the world champion 2019 for pankration Rashad Satterwhite

[@oldschoolkarate-5o]

What do you think of AMC pankration and kickboxing , they have put out several UFC champions ?

[@chrislampkin7896]

Pankration comes from to words. Pan and Kratos. Pi, Alpha,Nu, Kappa,Ro, Alpha ( I think),Tau, Omicron,Sigma... pankratos.

[@cliffelliott9331]

Pankration meaning: total war

[@gxtmfa]

I do BJJ, so I suppose I’m extra guilty of this. But like, I’d like to think we actually are aware of BJJ’s myriad deficits in our gym. SIDE NOTE: Yay! Linguistics! ما حسن يا رامسي!

[@notreallylarry8508]

Have you ever looked into glima? I think you might enjoy that

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

Matt Hume's gym is AMC Kickboxing & Pankration, and he competed in that same Pancrase org in Japan but also other pankration before we called it MMA. While it's not ancient Greek pankration, it's hardly "safe space" MMA. Similarly, Kyokushin Budokai's All-Round Fighting ruleset is like MMA with no gloves and open hand strikes in a dogi. I bet it has a few more rules than MMA. I think this is the one time I'll disagree with Coach Ramsey, but fists do not have better reach than open hand strikes. With practice, the cupped fingers will work, not only the palm heel.