Money is a Claim on Energy - Nate Hagens (The Great Simplification)

[@treefrog3349]

The intent of the Great Simplification is one of the few things that gives me hope any more. Its' sincere effort for sense-making and truth-telling is the antithesis of the "propaganda machine" that we are all exposed to daily. The genuinely benign intentions of TGS is an "oasis" amidst the blizzard of BS that We the People are spoon-fed constantly.

[@Skunk106]

I love Nate and the TGS, not so much for the viable solutions to our modern polycrisis. I don't see any solutions to human nature and herd mentality stampedeing over the cliff. What I love him and others for is that they help me recenter and find reasons and methods to fight the good fight despite whatever future manifests. People always have to keep the fact in mind that when a super volcano, comet, or solar blast strikes earth, it's game over, reset to caveman life, and start again. Yes, our human problems may be fixable, but we are literally made of stardust and its interactions, so why shouldn't we behave like other parts of the cosmic stew? We are, behaviorally, exactly what we're made of. We are beautiful, timeless, static and dynamic, constructive, and destructive, both collectively and individually. This brings me inner peace. We were never in charge of anything but our own little lives for one trillisecond of the cosmic timeline. Most humans have hardly even had that much control or choice historically. Saying humans are doing wrong is akin to saying a rock, animal, or heavenly body is doing wrong. Are greedy billionaires really worse or different than a black hole Hoovering up stars. Everything is conscious and fractal by nature. This is observable and experiential. Earth doesn't need saving. We're not better than rock. We just experience consciousness differently than everything else and the converse in just as true. We are a microcosm of the whole unless you believe in God/s. I don't believe anything. It is all observable. Sorry for the dump! Peace

[@chadreilly]

@@Skunk106 I think there are a number of solutions. However, Milquetoast Nate fails to message clearly about them for reasons...

[@Skunk106]

@chadreilly I should clarify that I know there are many present and developing solutions. I just doubt mankind ability or desire to adopt them until total collapse is beyond any debate. Nate has explained his reasons for not going into the solutions perse. I won't try to speak for him. Peace

[@chadreilly]

@@Skunk106 Has he now? Wouldn't it be a good idea for him to devote more than 5 minutes of each guests talks to discuss solutions and what young people should do?

[@Skunk106]

@chadreilly I think it would be much better for me to decide what I should do with my life than for me to decide what Nate should do with his. That's more than enough challenge for me, and as I stated in a previous comment, Nate's PC helps me do that. If you've mastered your own life so well that you have extra time and resources to devote to directing others, by all means, go right ahead and try and influence what others should do with theirs. Or maybe even start your own PC focusing on solutions you approve of.

[@dylanthomas12321]

I know Nate Hagens, or thought I did. But he's always the inscrutable gloomy intellectual narrator/interviewer on his channel (it's quite excellent), but after these many years I stumbled upon you channel. And finally Nate gets interviewed by a really smart person. And I finally got to to know him deeply. I can't thank you enough, Matthew. I've watched this twice already and there's still stuff I want to revisit. Now I want to know your channel better. A Big Giant Wow! From an old science guy. Well done and thanks.

[@9340cody]

Great guest. I hope more people start to follow Nate and share his message

[@WaryofExtremes]

a physics/engineering grad/teacher told me once he thought the world should use the joule as the unit of currency

[@directorchris2]

Bet That can Explain why it was NOT. It would make accuratelly Notified of Actyal Worths & PREVENT SCAMS. THEY COYLD NEVER ALLOW IT

[@Pythonizah]

Used in pedagogical hyperboly your teachers suggestion works well, but with more careful analysis the world has other valuable aspects that are incommensurable to energy. Vaclav Smil has written well about energy reductionism I think in Energy in Nature and Society: General Energetics of Complex Systems.

[@captainz9]

Probably more like kilojoules would be more realistic.

[@jamesvillacorta1713]

You're handling it better each passing day Mr.Nate Hagens😮

[@stellarnomad42]

It's pretty wild that this may be/probably is one of THE most important conversations of our time and yet it only has 14,000 views.

[@maearthmedia]

Thanks for helping us spread the word

[@johncarter1150]

14,000 +1

[@petercullati39]

Nate is great at making things understandable, like his "carbon pulse" concept

[@GarrettChristensen-r8d]

Excellent interview. Nate knows his stuff. Energy is the tie that bonds us all & Nate does a great job explaining how things really work.

[@rapauli]

for fans of Nate Hagens. And for understanding carbon-economics and the collapse of our predicament. Yikes! Thanks so much.

[@TennesseeJed]

Love Nate's perspective on stuff!

[@b2jutsao]

Such a good guest and I'm glad he introduced me to you, Matt! Subscribed!

[@SolarpunkSeed]

Hurray! Wonderful convergent conversation. Thank you 🌞🌱

[@Skunk106]

Hey, first time listener here. I enjoyed it. Good work! I loves me a PC with an entire comment section I can buzz through. I'd love to see you grow, but if you're like Nate I have to say I will relish the small, less polarized, argumentative and irrational comments section. Best wishes!

[@inlovewithmovement]

Excellent insights. Thanks.

[@UOCEAN2050Sweden]

Kiaora Matthew ! And huge big thank for this exhilarating podcast with Nate Hagens and the great simplification combined with Ma Earth . There is a concept that may just push the social tipping point to systemic change. And aid the green energy transition H². #OceansAidGlobal The Revolution we need now more than ever. Overwhelming yet simple. Alexandre tannous music unites humanity. Giving back to Ma Earth. Nature can be our saviour if we change our behaviour.

[@mpetry912]

the mention of Jevon's Paradox is especially apt.

[@kenpentel3396]

Thank you

[@christer-nylander]

Really good! Wisdom talks.

[@FerdinandAugustinus-j6t]

1:27:04 - No, there were possibly also hunter gatherers, who had hierarchy. Source - l don't remember exactly, but l read it from David Graeber's last book. And why hunter gatherers wouldn't have shamans?

[@driz77]

Love Nate.

[@emceegreen8864]

Matt. You should consider interviewing Dr Delton Chen. He’s developing the Global Carbon Reward climate policy.

[@tetranz]

Good interview, thanks. I follow Nate's podcast. I can certainly identify with the three hats. One nitpick at about 1:03:15. "19 terawatts worth of energy per day" doesn't make sense. A watt is a unit of power which is rate of energy. I think he means we're constantly consuming 19 TW of power. There's no "per day" about it. No big deal, the concept is clear.

[@gainzmakererik1377]

no sir he is refereing to the system constantly using 19TW. which addas up to 24hrs × 19TW and leads to 456 TWh a day. I might be completely wrong 🤠

[@michaelduncan6287]

When this interview is done, I'll have a simple breakfast, go out and continue working at hand spading my garden. Then this afternoon when it warms up work my bees. We need to return to a more human centered labor economy. My garden produces enough for @ three families for at least our fresh veg. and eggs.

[@stephenerickson8107]

Good for you Mike

[@andypresby6537]

Classical economics links the value of something closely to its rarity. What is the value of the only biosphere presently known to exist in those terms? It would seem pretty much near infinite to me...

[@TheSphat]

It's our time to shine. Thanks Nate for expressing my thoughts and much more. Carpe Diem.

[@raysimpson6075]

Have you ever read the book " A prosperous way down"?

[@BuzzBuzzChange]

No, but I will now

[@craigstockham2590]

We have to come to a consensus on how much energy each person can have divided evenly , and the world not wipe us off of it, and anyone above that threshold dials back.

[@mmotsenbocker]

The natural world (biology) uses ATP as the currency based on energy. If you have ATP, you get stuff done.

[@anthonytroia1]

Go Nate!

[@Dave-nn3dh]

Tie the value of money to the health of the planet. Set it to the earth standard

[@ladavis1959]

My thought as well by tethering the unit of currency to bees and honey . And you can also remain spiritually connected to the essence in tangible reality. The idea has been stewing in my mind for a long while . 🌈🌎🐝💙 Everyone can be a steward of abundance and it will reflect in the world around us as we bee 🐝 come to build the new world. How sweet is that? Honey money. I should speak it out . Think of the energy and organization it takes a bee to produce and sustain Bees are magical and we could forget religion as well as we become reconnected to the essence of life.

[@kevinmckay1955]

Love the conversation about prices. Money creation and prices don’t reflect the stocks of energy and resources, or the status of our natural world. It’s all so short term. Economics is so flawed, so full of politics.

[@robinschaufler444]

I love Nate. Thank you for interviewing him. He remains curious and embraces uncertainty, virtues that inflict most people with such discomfort they want to instantly jump to "solutions", whether such "solutions" actually solve any "problems" or not. Well, you can't "solve" a superorganism any more than you could "solve" an addicted human. Healing is a complex path, one that demands vigilence for the rest of one's life, that involves enormous discomfort in the process.

[@life42theuniverse]

29:00 dead plants in the ocean doesn’t burp up carbon, it inhales less carbon. Less carbon means fewer fish; That should create pressure to reduce fishing limits... but strict limits creates market pressures for lucrative short term profits.

[@life42theuniverse]

44:00 the claim on energy is independent of fiat value. The Mona Lisa has little claim on energy. A computer, a huge claim of energy, a few hundred dollars.

[@life42theuniverse]

57:00 How much power/kWh would be necessary to operate a global digital currency services?

[@LMZ60]

Great info to pause and think. How is this kind of knowledge and wisdom likely to inform policies, if not on a global scale, at least on a bioregion level? How do we get there without killing each other competing for resources ? And how much time do we have for this massive switching in our current system? Do we have *some* time... or is all this futile? Nate is talking about a decade. Sigh. Blessings to all.

[@nlewin5072]

Great to see Nate on the other side of the interview -this is the firt time I've seen this. Thoroughly depressing for this interview to be interrupted by so many adverts that are promoting what Nate is concerned about. Fly to Qatar, how to earn a £million without paying tax, how to grow your company, claim money back on the car you financed, learn to trade... EVERYTHING that is being advertised is a claim on Earth's resources for personal financial gain or gratification.

[@maearthmedia]

Indeed. FYI these are from KZbin. Ma Earth does not receive paid sponsorships or ad revenue.

[@user-zc4uv6ej2e]

I've been pressured all my life by people to buy a car to be 'normal' even though I don't feel I need one. Most of those people would say they believe in climate action.

[@nottenvironmental6208]

Extreme weather events will increase exponentially, eventually limiting discovery, extraction, delivery of energy until the fossil fuel industry is shut. As the environment leaves the liveable zone for large biological animals with water, food and shelter destroyed by the changing climate, how can humans control the few super rich who hoard resources and use political and military resources for personal protection further reducing the biophysical requirements for life?

[@emceegreen8864]

Watch “Finding the Money” to understand money creation.

[@CarolFoegen]

We also have the hat, limited income, put my money into the farm is investing, but so is paying down dept, and getting enough to just stay alive until... So things go slowly as we try to balance these three hats. It can be frustrating. Yet I find Nate that finding hope in places like the Sahara and in Kenya and....

[@physiqueDrummond]

there is a cut @1:07:47, I hate when this happens... what was said?

[@1237barca]

lol. Grow up. I doubt they spilled the beans on the crux of the issue and then cut it out. More likely someone farted or had their phone ring.

[@matthewmonahan1]

We had a lot of New York sirens to edit around for this conversation

[@Skunk106]

​@@matthewmonahan1 Who farted?😂

[@civitasparisiorum-o8u]

1:27:00 I think hierarchies predate agriculture. The concept of the alpha male in chimpanzees is well-known. Among species such as macaques, social ranks can be hereditary, where the offspring of high-ranking females typically inherit their mothers' status.

[@nicford493]

Adverts telling me to consume more as I'm trying to listen to Nate Haggens......??

[@kensurrency2564]

“Humans are problem solvers.” Yes. Who created the problems? Humans. We are “solving” “problems” WE caused. For example, we could have made a conscious decision, at any point, that progress should proceed _slowly_ instead of at an exponential rate that the system demands. We could stop that demand, we could slow down, but we don’t. *Why don’t we just slow down?* That would solve a lot of problems almost immediately. Notice: my previous statements could be a solution to problems WE caused. If we just stopped causing problems, there would be less demand for solutions. Less demand for solutions frees up time for us to do other things, more creative endeavors perhaps, instead of having to spend all of our time fixing things.

[@directorchris2]

Why don’t we just slow down? Becayse If Yoy Go In Village Spped Mistakes R RARE. & They MASS Things of YOYR MISTAKES/ LABOR

[@dougfredell6972]

I found this guest's arguments unconvincing.

[@jeppeholm5432]

money is a proof of work claims done with the money comes second

[@jordanrohlfing7924]

If I could wave a magic wand I would wish all humans realize how so ridiculously together we are to the point where the only acceptable conclusion about who we are is all this age life around the star.

[@jamesmorton7881]

Yo Nate, live each day, Yoga Works, live in the moment. Namaste. ❤❤. We are worth ? Barrels, no BTU, no KWHs per unit of time. Uber change is on the way.

[@richardlane5498]

The local arts, relatively small, will likely go back to coal and wood stoves and bundling up to heat small spaces...not ideal but bare necessity. The local arts never cease, even in the worst of times.

[@seanhewitt603]

Money denotes the value of your time given over to serve someone else's purpose. It is the unrecognised slaves collar, A chit which validates your safety and security, amongst monsters who would otherwise eat you. It's only purpose is to provide a means by which useless people with no skills can get a cut of the action. That's how businessmen can continue to exist.

[@mary-anncarleton7578]

Yeah AI is racing us to heading over the cliff.

[@davidmitchell4077]

How does crypto support the welfare state if it is run outside the government system. If transactions are outside the tax system who finances public infrastructure and environmental repair projects? Every man for himself.

[@Skunk106]

That question has a time factor. No value system remains outside the tax realm for long. Crypto is still a drop in a bucket in the ocean. When it starts making ripples and waves, the tax hammer and / or prohibitions will come. Cryptos are already supposed to be registered on tax returns and taxed as CGs.

[@jimbobbillybob]

MAH EARTH!

[@Gadfly2025]

I studied environmental in college in 70s and they were sure we run out of oil by 1986 …. Than Y2K … then it was 2015 … 😂😂😆😆 the waste product of OIL IS NATURAL GAS and Liquified Natural Gas LNG is quite cleaner than battery EVs and every IC motor could have been modified to run on it .

[@kieranaland4724]

@Gadfly2025 True- 1986 then Y2K then 2015, all speculation. False- "waste product of oil is natural gas" False- "every IC motor could have been modified to run on it."

[@Gadfly2025]

@ it’s true , every cab in Asia runs on CNG or LNG cause it’s so cheap Natural gas and oil come out of same area together . There’s even hydrogen pools deeper down . False running an EV is clean

[@Scott-d7d]

Nate Hagens for KING OF EARTH! Under God of course

[@TheBerserker50]

your god?

[@originalintent6916]

Thorium.

[@physiqueDrummond]

Nate, your answer about having kids or not is too rational... "my knowledge" and "my heart" and "my biological urge to reproduce"... Are those so disconnected parts? what about _your_ meta-organism...

[@HenkvanKesteren]

@physiqueDrummond . Meta-organism is a concept that goes beyond just one single person. Therefor, we cannot speak of "a person's meta-organism". We *could* however, speak of : "The metaorganism that Nate is part of". (That would be Nate, his girlfriend, and maybe his family ?) The 'parts' that you mention are not disconnected at all, their connection is located in the person Nate Hagens, because he explicitly says: "*my* knowledge", "*my* heart", "*my* urge to reproduce.". ( Semantics is really fun, isn't it ??)

[@surfbum8166]

That’s why bitcoin is so important for humanity

[@MichaeldeSousaCruz]

18:00 CENTRAL BANKS AND GOVERNMENTS DO NOT BORROW THEIR OWN MONEY!!! That’s Monetarist HOGWASH!!! You’ve spoken to Steve Keen, Nick!!! You either don’t believe him, or you’re lying!!!!

[@antonyjh1234]

Governments most definitely borrow their central banks money, tax takes it out again from the system and we spend our lives paying this debt back that costs them 4 cents per hundred dollars to create. But we are a debt based system based on our ability to use oil to pay it back and that isn't hogwash.

[@sonnyeastham]

.....they loan inflation to everybody 😢

[@emceegreen8864]

Watch “Finding the Money” for an education on how money is created. The national “debt” is equal to the national “savings”. Exploding head here.

[@emceegreen8864]

Again. Watch “Finding the Money”. 😊

[@MichaeldeSousaCruz]

@ I’m an MMTer. Tons on my channel from the originals.

[@pascalxus]

Nate says 10$ oil. but if oil becomes scarce, wouldn't energy as a percentage of our economy get larger? and wouldn't that mean that oil becomes more expensive?

[@Skunk106]

Consider if Jevons paradox were applied to our supposedly underutilized brains. If we could use our whole brain, we'd probably need 20, 30 or 50+K cals a day. Our digestive systems couldn't cope, and we'd prolly overheat and spontaneously combust on a regular basis 😂😂😂 Random thoughts doth come forth.

[@nlewin5072]

There's precious little humour in this subject matter. Thanks for that!

[@jackgoldman1]

We need efficiency, less waste. This can be done. It is not political, it is engineering, doing more with less, efficiency. Trouble is few people want to do more with less. I know I don't but I hope others will.

[@eriklondon2946]

Just a few small edits. The greater efficiency we have the less waste we have. This is true. Thus why pushing for anything other nuclear power (at this current level of understanding) doesn't really make sense. Also Natural Gas as it is very inexpensive, though it does create some small waste. We agree that the entire green movement is a lie, and that if they really cared, if Germany really cared about their people, their county or their ability to produce and provide for themselves they would stop lying about solar and wind and go hard at Gen IV nuclear and Natural Gas-ideally with gas supplied from the UK or Norway given obvious issues. (They both have TONS of natural gas they are hardly using. We agree though that most of the concerns that "environmentalists" talk about are engineering problems. Things that we need to innovate and make better, not do with less of. As countries go up the "energy food chain" they move from low density and high pollution, to high density and low pollution. They go from burning wood and animal pooh, to natural gas and nuclear power. The real truth of environmentalists is that it is anti-human ideology. Pushed by leftists who hate humankind. Their plan is to make the USA JUST like Germany... As Germany is disintegrating before our very eyes. It is full of baby boomers who didn' t have kids and tons of immigrants they imported who don't care for or appreciate the country. Aka they should send them back from where they came as they are going to tear apart what is left of Germany in the next 5-10 years. And pay their young people to have children. Allow more traveling nurses to come and work too. But yes, the only way to make our world better and cleaner is through using technology (of all kinds, not just computers). We could make algae that could eat up plastics or eat all of the CO2, or help tons more fish to exist... but instead we being led by the Leftists and Leftists Billionaire class to focus on CO2 rather than on toxic waste from their production plants. But yes there are ways to do most of the things we do today with plastics, using mushrooms, or algae or a plethora of other things that we are not doing. Also The AI giants are going to need a ton more energy, so we should enable them to buy a ton of clean factory produced Gen IV nuclear power.

[@ronwalker4998]

Well there's a thing called Jevons paradox

[@eriklondon2946]

@@ronwalker4998 True. But this is pretty Malthusian thinking. If we want more - as all humans do - we need to produce more with more efficient tools. We can already make gold from nuclear energy. Only thing is it costs so much to produce, it doesn't make sense.... yet. Issue is we have these psychopath Malthusians who seem to own much of our world. Rather than trying to innovate, they want to force the 99.9% to be poorer.

[@jackgoldman1]

The future will be better than we can possibly imagine. @@eriklondon2946

[@antonyjh1234]

Jevons Paradox would mean efficiency makes no difference

[@vipulpatel-il9nb]

Isn’t money an exchange for useful goods or real world work done?

[@jamesharkins6799]

power coupons

[@gerardczosnowski8916]

So u want to be a good ancestor? But u have no descendants. Therefore u will never become an ancestor.

[@Airith4]

Not all ancestors have descendants.

[@captainz9]

You plant a tree under which you will never enjoy the shade in your lifetime - but future generations will.

[@richgoo]

umm hmm

[@josephabanktress]

Why else do you think we had "the pandemic". Far fewer consumers are needed due to automation and AI is a energy hog. Can you read between the lines?

[@josephabanktress]

Being concerned about human health like a drop in sperm count IS a major concern as it's a reflection of how we treat the planet. To disregard this fact is ignorance.

[@salmiak-salmiak]

1:08:14 typical boomerism... pick up and move across the country on a one-way ticket is such a fantasy and yet Nate repeats it like its wisdom. you gotta wonder what this guy is doing online when he should be feeding his ducks or whatever . not everyone has a farm Nate

[@alexclifford2485]

Interesting talk, but he is a bit gloomy and neurotic about these things. At the end of the day we'll probably have to buy less crap, use more efficient vehicles, and have more sensible-sized housing, or get better at insulation for heating/cooling needs. Ideally live closer to a few friends, family and community with whom we can mutually help. Oil isn't cheap or unlimited forever and we'll adjust. It doesn't have to be poverty. It's possible to live a simple life in many parts of the world, even in the developed world on a small income or savings, on fractions of the energy use and money expenditure, which is normal in the USA. If I were him I'd get out the US, back to that place in India, go enjoy some nature and enjoy himself. Write a few articles and fly back occasionaly for talks, podcasts or seeing family. New York will make you insane, as will talking with hedge fund managers and people in suits. Live by example.

[@antonyjh1234]

Podcasts can be done without flying, and it isn't about less crap or better insultation, it's the removal of oil from your life, and money that is only debt and the expectation that we can buy our way out.

[@pluribus]

Bedsprings (soil) are the answer... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoKxaqdjnJd9Y5I

[@StockOcolaypsereverentofmiddle]

Money is debt Get out of academia

[@thunderstorm6630]

stop insulting

[@ARvsAK]

Debt of what.

[@antonyjh1234]

@@ARvsAK Banks

[@hardypermaculture]

and debt is....?

[@antonyjh1234]

@@hardypermaculture Money. It's literally money, all money in the world exists because of the corresponding amount of debt, all money you own, is only bank debt.

[@joachimpetersen2301]

We won't and shouldn't dial back our energy production and consumption. It's going to go into turbo charge within the next 20 years. Solar tech is only going to get better, along with nuclear, fossil fuels, and hydro and geothermal in some countries. We can easily produce way more energy than we need and it should be very cheap too.

[@sonnyeastham]

This video is evidence for the prescription of Adderall for adults 😮

[@derrickwells333]

yawn

[@derrickwells333]

why so boring and non intelligent. plan wrong on energy

[@derrickwells333]

is he the green chicken dude? likely

[@Kbeard-pk1cv]

This guy is so full of "it" that he could power his house on the methane coming out of his mouth.

[@hologramhouse729]

I find Mr Hagens very inaccurate about his meta-analysis... And once again mental illness, species extinction, evil, poverty, homelessness are considered obliquely...

[@antonyjh1234]

Nothing of what you said disproved what he said. The science of adding carbon to an atmosphere and our reliance on oil coming to an end doesn't need to be called a mental illness to be discussed. Your feelings on the matter don't need to be mentioned, so do you have anything to say about the topic?

[@nampmaljr9294]

​@antonyjh1234 ..... agreed. What to me would be a productive conversation would revolve around actions on a micro scale ...... what can we as individuals do in our own micro economy? How can a family reduce consumption and simplify by becoming more energy efficient? What real world investments make sense for you at home? Home energy efficiency? Growing a garden? Planting trees that give shade and food? Rain water reuse from our own rooftops? Even bat habitats and chickens = natural non petrochemical pest control too. Why not plan ahead on an individual level? All comments welcome.

[@antonyjh1234]

@@nampmaljr9294 Lowering consumption is the only way, overall, like driving with diesel, a tank of diesel has the smae amount of energy as my total electrical energy for 3.2 months over summer with the air con going 24-7, if somebody uses a tank a week for a year it is equal to 17 years of my total electrical energy.

[@antonyjh1234]

@nampmaljr9294 Lowering consumption is the only way, overall, like driving with diesel, a tank of diesel has the same amount of energy as my total electrical energy for 3.2 months over summer with the air con going 24-7, if somebody uses a tank a week for a year it is equal to 17 years of my total electrical energy, huge amounts of energy just so people can go for a drive.

[@antonyjh1234]

@@nampmaljr9294 @nampmaljr9294 Lowering consumption is the only way, overall, like driving with diesel, a tank of diesel has the smae amount of energy as my total electrical energy for 3.2 months over summer with the air con going 24-7, if somebody uses a tank a week for a year it is equal to 17 years of my total electrical energy.

[@StockOcolaypsereverentofmiddle]

Huge source of propaganda

[@Changeworld408]

Propaganda😂

[@sonnyeastham]

Slopaganda

[@kenpentel3396]

Thank you