Pro's & Con's of EVERY Core Faction in Warhammer The Old World!

[@knightoforange7177]

Imagine traveling back in time and telling someone witnessing the End Times that its 2024 and Warhammer Fantasy is back and the two most populous armies are Tomb Kings and Breonnians.

[@ElohimJim]

I bought into Brets then 6 months later they blew the world up. Now I play The Barons War the Old Worlds back, the stars are aligning!!!

[@AvalonRegarnished]

When the End Times happened I kept pointing at the popularity of Vampire 20th Anniversary Edition and saying "It'll be back in 8 years", and people didn't believe me.

[@gastosrhor7424]

Bretonnians deserve the state of OP level of their army for literally 20yrs without the book 😂 Let us bath in glory while it lasts 😄

[@allancarey2604]

I was there at the blow up (long time before) & I’m not surprised about tgd Brett’s. Everyone wanted them (Well wierd people who don’t like the green) but they weren’t supported. The Tomb kings were a little different…but that’s becouse of the split with vampire counts.

[@guilliman1990]

@knightoforange7177 they would straight faced call you a lier and they would have fair grounds!!!.

[@alexmiller1800]

My god, I love the Dwarfs so much. Every image I see of them looks awesome and makes me want to try my hand at building an army of short kings so badly!

[@royalstonmusic]

Do it!

[@markcooper3516]

It's clear that Beastmen is the best faction as it has Beastmen in it.

[@Dre0oq]

Bingo!

[@Upchucabawa]

@@markcooper3516 don't ever let them forget it

[@kivati]

Haha, but seriously about mid tier.

[@FunkBastid]

I can tell you’re a man of integrity, just like me.

[@Tulkash01]

Beastmen are actually really competitive atm. No dragons but everything else is there and it’s good.

[@kud5659]

I used to have a large normal goblin army but I sold it for a massive night goblin armor. I love fanatics!!!! Such a good laugh.

[@zo2bv]

23:11 Minor correction - whilst the squig hoppers do have skirmish, they do not benefit from the -1 to hit modifier versus enemy fire since they are light cavalry (unit strength 2).

[@acrylnick2281]

Looks at my giant army of empire cavalry. Did he forget to mention the steamtank is just always amazing. Just putting a brick on the board. I still play with my metal one so i have a real physical threat on the board.

[@adamsboringvids]

What is say about Beastmen is the leadership is tied to them having ranks. If they lose ranks for whatever reason - the unit becomes disrupted. That Ld bonus goes.

[@Morhgoz]

I just love the Orcz and Goblinz, I'm even doing army which "technically" is Chaos Dwarf army but it is just mostly orcz with fake beards and tall helmets pretending to be Chaos Dwarfz... Using the old/current plastic boyz from both fantasy and 40k, and converting and scratch building them. Also making O&G Tribes army, but that is with 3d printed minis...

[@Tangodownmtndew]

Ps, believe it or not. Dwarf cannons were always worse than Empire. Great cannons did D6 vs D3 wounds and great cannons had more range.

[@skeith1543]

what? Dwarf cannons did d6 wounds in 8th edition too. they just had shorter range then the great cannon.

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

Always is a long time. Once upon a time they both did D4 (yes, really). Would have been surprising for them to have been different what with them both being the same model, but then if you added extra crew to the thing it could do anything up to 2D4+1...

[@cavemansam8400]

@@ClydeMillerWynantdid they ever do an artillery dice of wounds or have I just lost the plot? 😂😂

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@cavemansam8400 That doesn't ring any bells to me, but I only really have any grasp at all of what went on in 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 8th along with with the new game. So who knows? Been looking at the 2nd Edition rules as that's when my Dwarf bombard model comes from (think 3rd probably existed by the time I bought it). Rather than multiple wounds they did multiple hits (D6) to models in a 2" wide 48" corridor - you had to roll to hit each model in the first place though. The 3rd Ed ones dropped off in strength for every foot of range. I like the advice in the rulebook 'Rather than using a tape measure you may wish to make your own firing stick'.

[@cavemansam8400]

@@ClydeMillerWynant Would be from 5th or 6th ..maybe it was a spell.?? Sorry for the random comment man thanks for helping me try and remember.

[@dairewoods2544]

Was so happy Bretonnia was one of the launch factions, loved them ever since i read my uncles 6th edition atmy book for them decades ago. Thought total war was the best i was ever gonna get

[@ElohimJim]

Im glad I can get cannons and crossbows now, just like the old days. Now I can use those Agincourt and Norman era crossbowmen I bought on ebay and never used. :)

[@egilgr]

bestigor are so expensive though, and unless you take a beastlord general they are going to take away from your special slot, where you want dragon ogres etc instead. And taking a beastlord means you can't take 2 level 4s or a lvl 4 and a doombull. And doombulls > beastlords I'm afraid. Bestigor are cool, but I'd consider them a fluffy choice

[@kivati]

Yeah, bestigor are not worth taking, gors donthe same job for much cheaper, so you can pump more points into stronger stuff.

[@uruk_bye1232]

I never run Bestigor. Everything else is more efficient by far. They just don't have the attacks.

[@HallBr3gg]

I think what you are missing is that it doesn't matter how fighty a unit is if it can't get to the fights it want to be in.

[@madcapmiguel5071]

Really enjoying your old world and bolt action content, i hope you include the legacy factions at some point

[@Hawko1313]

With warriors of chaos, I find that more so than other factions, their rare choices and characters are where all their strength is. You are right when you say they can’t have their cake and eat it, because their units all try to share the same force organisation slot. What I like about brettonia, wood elves, O&G and beastmen is that you can get good value out of core choices. Knights of the realm, men at arms, glade guard, black orcs, night goblins etc all contribute to your gameplay rather than just feeling like a tax

[@saintetienne373]

Empire also has the ability to field inexpensive heroes that can be mounted on griffons and pegasus. This isnt very common . Orcs need lords to field Wyverns , Dark Elves need an entire unique more expensive hero to mount the Manticore , Vampire counts need lords for the Abyssal Terror and so on . I have yet to see anyone take advantage of this and im not sure why. 4 griffons in 2k points would be hard for most armies to deal with.

[@lucaswatson1913]

Empire characters aren't that cheap when you look at the statlines A Bret Baron is 45pts less than a grand master for 1 less initiative, the loss of stubborn and immune to psychology but the GAIN of a native ward save

[@uruk_bye1232]

I'm still waiting for an Empire player to take the max amount of level 3 and 4 wizards on pegasi. I think it's a genuinely nasty list if you're willing to high-roll on casting.

[@Malisteen]

loving my tomb kings in tOW, both grand army and mortuary cult. Big monsters, solid infantry, strong magic, leadership games, fast chaff, tar pits, buffs, healing, deployment tricks, even a bit of shooting. Just so much variety & cool stuff to play with. one of the better rule sets the faction's had through various iterations of warhammer. while they're maybe not as strong as my legacy pdf vampire counts, they are more fun imo.

[@Ironside120]

Great video, hope you cover the Legacy factions as well!

[@madcapmiguel5071]

I came here to say the same thing, really enjoying his non 40k content

[@aaronishappy]

The Empire are just so goddamn cool. One of the coolest factions in any fantasy setting ever.

[@mohamedmaiza3866]

I love how he basically mentions infantry in every faction lol never change mordian

[@khartraxx]

What about the legacy factions? Sure, they will not get their Arcane Journals but they are the core of Warhammer Fantasy just as the fully supported factions. Please, do not treat them as the second-tier factions. Edit: Ok. Now, when I actually finished watching the video till the end where you say that you do not have enough experience to have an honest opinion about the legacy factions, I can say that I respect that. Hopefully, you will be able to make a similar video about the legacy factions at some point in the future.

[@kivati]

The scope had expanded, it might not be the case, who knows what will happen!

[@boyanpenev9822]

GW, do give empire state troops a bit of love, people want them to be good.

[@skeith1543]

So having played a few legacy factions cause, Fuck you GW i want my vampire counts and Daemons. i can say with certainty, that the Daemons are borked. If they are going up against a faction with relatively few magic attacks they are pretty hard to put down. A nurgle based army in particular as they get regens on top of that. However, any factions with high concentration of magic attacks will utterly roll them over. Brettonians, warriors of chaos and high elves in particular laugh at daemons. Armor is so rare in the daemons faction that you depend on that ward save and the moment it's stripped away on multiple fronts you are on the clock. Also they made creating an army rather more difficult, as it's very good based rather then mix and match. might be a downside might not. it is for me as i had to bulk up on core troops to make a proper army.

[@danielachmann1373]

For Glory and the Lady!

[@ElohimJim]

Hon hon baguette!!!!

[@Hawko1313]

Hons maliciously as my lord uses the falcon horn and my Pegasus knights take to the air.

[@mathewcooper8505]

Ooh yay more old world stuff! Hope bretonnia get a good score. I’m gonna finish this video later tonight while I paint my Knight Errants command groups

[@Tangodownmtndew]

@@mathewcooper8505 as an Empire Cavalry player, Britoninnia is pretty awesome with their cavalry

[@Hawko1313]

Brettonians are one of the better armies for sure. You have to look pretty hard to find mediocre units in their list. Efficient core knights, Pegasus knights are amazing. Every peasant unit except the grail pilgrims are cheap and don’t give up many points as they do their job. Awesome characters, average magic, great counterplay to big monsters and flyers

[@mathewcooper8505]

@@Hawko1313 pilgrims still aren’t exactly expensive too, they’re some of my favorites. Part of why I favor an Errantry army of infamy so they can be core troops.

[@Hawko1313]

@@mathewcooper8505 Pilgrims are the only thing i don't have at the moment. But i just love spamming errants so much in my casual games. Hero-hammer grail characters with errants going for long-bomb impetuous charges. I didn't even think about pilgrims.

[@mathewcooper8505]

@@Hawko1313 I expect them to be pretty good at stopping something for one or two turns (and looking cool while doing it lol). I can’t speak for the GW one, but the Highland Minis reliquary I have is great and I love it… and I got a mini of my dog made that rides on it too. Are you running an errantry crusade list? It also comes with squires as core too, and while their stats are the same as regular peasants, they do come along with special rules like Fire and Flee, Move through cover, and scout

[@NisGaarde]

Great video! 🤩

[@MordianGlory]

Glad you liked it!!

[@bergandthelucksea7336]

Funny that in the two tourneys I’ve played wood elves were 4/20 armies and then at the other 2/4 - they’re everywhere!

[@Insulate2011]

Great Video!

[@kivati]

Empire great cannons have always been better than Dwarf cannons (unless that changed in 8th which I didn't play). Its been d3 wounds since at least 6th. Great video though mate!

[@thefinne6737]

The video I have been waiting for

[@user-vd5wh7cj2e]

Bestigors are pretty points inefficient compared to Gors. They're both WS4, Primal Fury, Blood Rage, etc. But, they're 13ppm without Horde, they are Close Order, and can't be in Skirmish. Gors are 7ppm with free AHW. I run a Ld bomb brick of Gors with a Wargor BSB, Manbane Standard, and a Totem of Rust - far more effective than Bestigors point for point. Also, Razorgor herds are one the best units in the roster. Never leave home without three solo Razorgors and you'll be sitting pretty. For 52 ppm, they're an absolute steal.

[@AndyM_323YYY]

The big Con for Tomb Kings is assembling all those skeletons.

[@ElohimJim]

I wrote a list for a 4th ed Undead army the other day so I know what I need to buy. Im going to be poor AF, and Im dreading building them.

[@eskhaphey2873]

And a massive lack of ap that arnt constructs...

[@Tulkash01]

Nice vid! Just a couple of nitpicks: dwarf cannons have always been inferior to great cannons. 8th reduced the difference quite a bit while tOW actually made it more noticeable and artillery runes do very little to improve their performance. Warriors of chaos are the best combat army because of dragon ogres and the lord on chaos dragon. Personally I think marauders are better than chaos warriors because they cost way less but their impact for their role is quite similar. Whatever you do, don’t forget about chaos hounds… they are a steal for their points and there’s no underselling how good is to have cheap and fast screen units in an otherwise elite army!

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

I see EVERY army in uppercase in the title, however I dont see my beloved Druchi here....

[@anthonyallmond3682]

IronDrakes with trollhammers are amazing

[@skreechverminking2227]

So about those ethereal dragoms. You know how jezzails are one of the skaven best friends with dealing with monsters in total? Well they are magical weapons as well😂

[@Kallistosprom]

I wish Empire gun weren’t a thing, just mind bogglingly dull since premeasuring became a thing in fantasy.

[@Johnny-Thunder]

I do play the Wood Elves... That is to say: I would be playing Wood Elves if there actually was anybody else in my area playing this bloody game!

[@christiansorensen7567]

Bahh, just as well that the Tree-Humpers don't show up to create more Grudges for the Book.

[@kivati]

This sums up Beastmen methinks... Beastmen are great in "fair" Warhammer but they absolutely lack the tools to be better than average in the competitive metagame right now. They're slow, don't have a premier Monster and have to rely on Viletide and it's very short threat range to handle the Dragon lords. I love them, but they're very mid for tournament play.

[@kivati]

That comment was someone else's, not mine, can't recall whom, but def sums up my thoughts on them. I still adore my beastmen, though , but not great competitive meta right now at all.

[@CyrodiilCome]

A dragon loses to bestigors with slug skin. Most of your beastmen army can ambush. Beastmen are faster than other infantry armies by a country mile

[@kivati]

A dragon and its rider will he hitting on 4s,still not bad. Plus the d6 stomps. The dragon and rider will still cut through bestigors just as easily as gors, mate. Slug-skin won't save them from a dragon, especially if it's rider is carrying something like the ogre blade. Besit9gr vs a chips lord on a dragon, my money's still on the dragon.

[@kivati]

Ambush is only worth it if you take a beastlord, which is a weak choice compared to a doombull. Pointless ambushing as well if your opponent has positioned things ao you can't come on at the back, which regularly happened to me when I've tried it.

[@kivati]

Also, ambushing peasant archers when the main battle is miles away is also pointless when I needed those troops on the front line.

[@michaciemniewski9791]

I feel like I was excluded (by design) as a Chorf player.

[@DeusExDraconian]

The actual warriors in WoC lineup are a far cry from what they used to be. Having a core unit with 2 attacks and WS 5 is something I made a nightmare out of for many people I went up against. I hope they fix the infantry going forward to get that 7th-8th edition feel back. This time without the horde rules.

[@leonatus221]

Is there a forum or something for armybuilds lik ethernal dragons or something?

[@wardenstone6021]

More Old World content please sah!

[@kivati]

I hVe seen normal archers cut down monsters in a turn. Viletide is great but very short range. Have a large block of archers shooting at a large target like a ghorghon or a block of gor, and you're fishing for wounds anyhow. Honestly, I was shocked when 20 peasants with bows killed my ghorgon turn 2.

[@lucaswatson1913]

You should be shocked, that's rather unlikely

[@stevenrothwell5854]

I wouldn't mind a slight nerf to Demigryphs, steamtank and HBVG if my State troops would at least have some of the inbuilt rules that goblins and MAA get! I dont want them better than HE or Dwarfs, but c'mon...

[@Ultr4l0f]

As a Woodelf player. Cons. Squishiest army in the game. A slight breeze can and WILL kill large parts of your army. Pros. Fast and the Furious - Athel Loren Drift. Just ... so damn fast and nimble. That, (br)Oaken Stave and Sisters of the Thorn (which I personaly dont have any of) seem to do horrendous things in tournaments. 3 units seem standard.

[@boyanpenev9822]

Wood elves remind me of how they used to be in a RTS called Warlords Battlecry. First few tiers, they are a glass cannon, and then they bring out Treeman who are tougher than old leather.

[@Ultr4l0f]

@@boyanpenev9822 t Treeman are cool. Unfortunatley the lord-on-dragon meta makes them ... less than great. Atleast in a competative list. Edit. Because they have a hard time avoding beefy lords and will quickly be killed by them. And thats alot of points gone... I can and WILL bring them (and treekin) to friendly games tho

[@catalingavrilescu2317]

elves in general are squishy not only the wood elves.

[@kissieljp]

Where are my goddamn dark elves?!?!

[@mrmelons2069]

No legends armies? Where are my chorfs!

[@Nick_the_Salamander]

Is the loar for orcs anf gobos similar to 40K or are they more traditional fantasy?

[@anthonyallmond3682]

Their basically the same except Grots are more of their own thing

[@joaoleong4295]

where is dark elves?

[@jackrogers5712]

Core factions only, cuz

[@Ellesenar]

Why Chaos Warrior's magic is so strong?

[@jacawandersmok9043]

11:10 Yey grail knight need 2 wounds; espaly when it sooposte to be that min hero that can challange ; and lower thae points wold deminis thayer segnifitence for them; it will fit also bacose all monster cav/ monter infatry starts with 3 wounds soo it look like perect space for ELITE havy cavalery like grail knight chaos knights to have 2 wounds

[@Morhgoz]

You mean High AND Waaagh! Magic? 😜

[@steveh.690]

What about vampire counts?

[@KnightsofTitan]

Dont foeget witch hunters give his attached unit magical attacks, so that also good against ethreal units that arnt dragons

[@sha_663]

I still don't know why 50k sob don't have bikes Bretonnia is already getting more sob-ish design wise

[@MDDwarf]

Dwarf cannon strength is taking runes to help prevent misfires and thus increasing their reliability.

[@janehrahan5116]

12:55 actually. The generally preferred option is a baron. 90% of the time or more you're paying 75 points for just one attack. Also it's generally agreed to save 75 points by going with a royal pegasus over a hippogriff thus saving 150 points. You them put him in the pegasus knight lance you would have had already.

[@jacawandersmok9043]

19:30 what about wood elfs? put magick arrows ?

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

hahah why do you guys say ¨mano a mano¨. We don´t say it like that in Spanish, we say ¨cuerpo a cuerpo¨ . IT is the equivalent to hand to hand combat, although cuerpo means body, not hand

[@Ulfhednir9]

No Dawi Zharr? :(

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

👍👍

[@jacawandersmok9043]

YEY the old world ;]

[@ericrhinehart9155]

No dark elves 😢

[@kilgoretrout413]

The empire have always been my favourite, though I’m not a racist.

[@BananaBananaBanana-y3k]

should GW flip the skillset off the Empire and the Dwarfs? For fluff, surely dwarfs should be peak artillery and somewhat tough infantry and weak due to lacking movement/cav and likewise for fluff, surely empire should have average-good artillery but the focus should be the infantry & cav with magic support (so that the rules suit the fluff). Empire being artillery & magic just seems so confused, when you have dwarfs and elves generally understood to be better at those things respectively. it just seems very confused and that's disappointing. players wont get to enjoy play in a way that reflects the setting & lore

[@leonatus221]

Were are the cons?😂

[@Dwilson1282]

HAPPY ANGRY COW NOISES

[@guilliman1990]

Making a vampire counts army for my mate and doing a slow grow empire vs chaos witha a friend!

[@Amdor]

*looks at "Core"* lieeees xD - I dislike pulling legacy armies out of articles, even tho some are quite bad on purpose. Then you have Vampires whom geedubs loves for some reason.

[@TheJankmaster]

Slug skin is just the hero, doesn’t extend to unit. It’s still great, but not to the extent that you’re making it

[@ausernamewhichishidden]

Page 111 of ravening hordes, read the rule and then consider how on Earth you managed to comment quite so inaccurately

[@TheJankmaster]

@ I was never so happy to be wrong. Unless of course I am misreading your comment.

[@Tangodownmtndew]

Empire is still the worst faction. Just saying as an empire player. Artillery armies are very hit or miss.

[@mathewcooper8505]

Hope that changes when they get an arcane journal- they could revolutionize the faction

[@Tangodownmtndew]

@@mathewcooper8505 I agree. Knights should be better, inner circle should be core, cannons should be D6 wounds. Again… hit or miss. Even with a D6 what they are targeting is most likely to survive.

[@skeith1543]

i mean the Daemons can give them a run for their money....

[@mathewcooper8505]

@@Tangodownmtndew I hope it’s a good journal for you! If it’s anything like the Bret journal I hope you’ll be happy. Elite troops might get moved into core: faction and army of infamy exclusive items… it will be great I’m sure

[@mathewcooper8505]

@@skeith1543 demons vs Bretonnians you mean?

[@jacawandersmok9043]

2:29 dwarfs; "thats A GRUGE" ;]

[@jacawandersmok9043]

1:50 dont woryyy; EoM will get new name charaters SOOn next year ;] with reeliase and juranal arcane

[@ja37d-34]

The game is not supposed to be played on 60x44".. Simple as that. Npnsense size. I don´t understand how Farty K can be played at that.. With larger bases now and more big BS things. A joke.. Play ATLEAST 6x4 foot. If not 8x4 as back in the days.. Actually being able to move around is both fun and tactical..

[@ja37d-34]

Do some charity - but don´t do it about yourself..

[@jacawandersmok9043]

13:22 probly so rere bacose soo hard to find minis or thay are riddicules expenive; for now;