When a Gay Mormon Man Marries a Woman - Kyle Ashworth Pt. 1 - Mormon Stories Ep. 1436

[@tiffanielarae6345]

I went to high school with Kyle! We were friends. I am a couple years older than he is so it was strange for us to be friends. We would privately email and he would help me with my teenage woes. I referred to him as “Dr. Kyle” and that’s how he signed my year book as well. I always wondered what happened to him as I graduated before him (obviously) and moved away from Gunnison Valley as quickly as possible. Dr. Inoye (as mentioned with the gun) passed away due to Covid, RIP. Kyle, if you see this - my 17 year old self would like to thank you for your many emails during what was a very difficult time in my life. I will never forget that and seeing you and how well you are doing makes my heart happy. 💕💕

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Sounds like a very special bloke.

[@jasengardner844]

Good for you for being a friend to a younger classmate, but much more than that you are a true friend and a good human being. RESPECT

[@anonymousone9699]

This is heartwarming.

[@adaptercrash]

It'll be on you and they wanna make it a movie more liberal nonsense

[@LenaLindroth-g1v]

I love the way you express your moral and drive, not for societeten but out of your true self. Everybody have the right to be all what they are. All the parts that makes us as geniun- as a parent, as a partner, as a friend, as a go-worker, neighbor… nobody is only one charachter. We are sun moon good and bad! My hurray to you!

[@tonyarodgers2885]

Thank you for sharing your Journey. I’m a parent of a child LGBT and learning how to understand his perspective. Each story helps me understand more and more. Take care!

[@jamisongee3324]

Your son is very lucky to have a mum who proves her unconditional with her actions. Thank God he will not be made feel alone by his mother. Bless you.

[@jennifercornman1291]

My son came out to me a few months ago. I always knew. I’m trying to do the same thing.

[@hulagirldeedee]

I am so thankful that the wonderful man I was dating at BYUH came out to me before we got to the engagement point. He gave me such a gift. I never realized how hard it must’ve been for him to tell me the truth, but I will forever be grateful.

[@jasengardner844]

Good for you for recognizing this. I have no agenda insomuch as I am a straight man. Not that it matters, but I want the hateful people out there to hear this. I challenge all of those who are hateful to be not only a "real man", but be a better man(or women). How can you watch this interview, and feel hate towards the guest? It is so obvious that he is a good man. A genuine man, intelligent man, and he is a REAL MAN". Anyway, love your gracious and loving heart for recognizing he saved both of you from a fake life. You are a good person. Faith in humanity restored, at least for today. Thank you. Sorry for the diatribe lol.

[@greggoreo6738]

Brave Boy

[@sjordan7085]

Though not Mormon, my English Aunt Joan married a gay man induring WWII. Eligible men were in short supply, and more than a handful of airmen she was engaged to, one after another, went to Germany and never came back. The solution was simple. As the vicar said at her husband's funeral, " They were a devoted couple." He forgot to add, " Just not to eachother." They both had their boyfriends. 'Respectability' was of paramount importance, and the facade was kept up for almost sixty years until he died from Aids. A disease, and cause of death my aunt was totally oblivious to. She was of course, desparately lonely, and played with her collection of dollies well into her eighties, because she never had children. They were very wealthy, but in spite of all the luxury they enjoyed, living a lie, brought my aunt with a large portion of sadness, even if she enjoyed lavish entertaining, dozens of fur coats and frequent holidays abroad. Every Saturday Ken went to a pub to he meet his lover and returned home late the following day. Considering the fact that homosexuality was likely never discussed in my family, I can well imagine my aunt would have been totally naive. Even at the receiving line after the funeral, she had no clue, why one particular man was almost collapsed in grief, nor did she recognize him. They lived near Carlisle, in the north of England, which I was told is where the first President of the LDS church came from.

[@aubreylenyard6528]

You should write a book of your aunts life.

[@stuff1784]

That’s so freaking sad 😢

[@djohn5528]

I'm from Gunnison. We got our first dog from Kyle. He was my brothers age. This blew my mind. I just realized who Kyle was. Damn. Much love Kyle

[@ceairamrc]

“And I was still hella gay” made me laugh out loud 😂😂😂 this is an awesome interview.

[@tompabompa]

Impressive guy. Even through pressure and pain he kept his integrity. I wish him all the best in life. He deserves it.

[@jasengardner844]

Well said. Couldn't agree more!👏👏

[@janinemaxwell4297]

I married someone who was in the closet. We were married for 22 years married in the temple thought I had the perfect marriage until one day I found an email saying he was prepared to leave his family I thought it was a woman so wrong it was a guy. That day saw the end of my marriage and our family being members of the church I found out later that his parents, our bishop and stake president all knew he was gay and yet no one told me I also found out he had been charged on 2 separate occasions and the bishops answer to that was he needed to go to on a mission then find someone and get married I felt robbed because I never had the chance to choose whether or not I would marry him given his huge secret he was keeping

[@merricat3025]

That is so unfair to you

[@slavbarbie]

I'm at the beginning of the video so I don't know if they ever address this, but I really hope they show at least some empathy towards the deceived woman who as you said was given no choice. To me it's like cheating. To marry a person they never had full feelings for.

[@delftblue8801]

@@slavbarbie you’re exactly right. These women were deceived and used. Period.

[@jondayoung6883]

I am a never Mormon but grew up in a very conservative evangelical church in KY and the same thing happened to me. I felt robbed of making a choice and couldn’t get over that, even though my ex-husband said that he loved me. We divorced eventually. He still is in the closet. I wish for him that he becomes able to be his authentic self.

[@loren1955]

Forty years ago there were fewer option and little to no support from LDS, Inc. I knew I was attracted to men, however, the pressure from family, church and society was so strong to get married. I was engaged, went to the local bishop and expressed my concern of being engaged and attracted to men. He said, and I quote, 'Loren, go ahead and get married, keep the commandments and all of these feelings will go away. Never tell your wife of these feelings.' Lies upon lies. I was so wanting to be accepted and 'normal' I married. Marriage was horrible, I was going to have the marriage annulled and then she announced she was pregnant. Then I knew I was committed. Yep, LDS, Inc. promoted interorientation marriages and lying to each other. Great 'Christian' moral institution, eh? NOT.

[@maryannebrown2385]

So what happened? Are you still married?

[@loren1955]

@@maryannebrown2385 Thanks for asking. Twelve years ago, I divorced, quit the church, and came out to my three sons. They love their gay dad. I am much more an integrated person instead of living dual lives and a lie.

[@ReginaTrans_]

@@loren1955 daddy

[@bubblesweidmann7978]

LDS are not Christian.. Wonderful ppl. But but different doctorine.

[@gretchenisasquirrel]

@@perilynbarton3471 Progression to god is probably more likely. Changing definitions, changes Christology and that's another reason. Regardless, peace to you. I have no quarrel with Faithful of those topics.

[@karenb2149]

I’m just heartbroken for Kyle and all the other beautiful souls who wasted so many years attempting to fix something that was never broken. ❤

[@jennifercornman1291]

❤❤❤❤

[@fredreckgarnham5369]

​qi

[@goatymacgoatface6544]

Learning about the manual on 'same sex attraction' explains a lot about my dad. He was a very loving and accepting person, except when it came to LGBTQ people. The church taught an otherwise good person to devalue others.

[@jamisongee3324]

I feel that Kyle's story can teach us so many valuable lessons. What a superb man he is who deserves to find love with an equally wonderful man. God bless him. I'm a Christian by the way.

[@ksparks689]

Mad at churches here in KY as well. Also divorced from a mixed-orientation marriage from a gay man. Thanks so much for talking about these things openly and with love.

[@janinemaxwell4297]

Same here I was married for 22 yrs

[@katbos4995]

1:31:00 Wow! The church has us build our house 🏡 on sand of inauthenticity, and then blame us when it fails. They say: mission-marriage-kids will cure homosexuality. FALSE. It just harms everyone, including the spouse & kids. I 1000% can relate.

[@janinemaxwell4297]

Totally agree with you

[@saffronhammer7714]

Staying incredibly busy is such a powerful cult tool. It’s also a self preservation mechanism for the cult member; it helps suppress doubts and prevents the reasoning that would have otherwise led us out of the mind control. It can often take a breakdown of sorts-a place where we simply cannot continue to push ourselves so relentlessly-to give us some mental space to heal and think-to truly think and begin to know and accept our true selves for the first time in our lives . That was my experience as a born in faithful JW.

[@gordonzio]

best defense is a great offense. mormonism does keep you incredibly busy

[@yayilobo2654]

I would love to hear the wife or ex-wife side of the story.

[@egonaigner4757]

A brilliant interview. Kyle is remarkable.

[@laurencemartin2797]

I've enjoyed this interview so much! Thank you for honest questions and answers with integrity..

[@alc2979]

This was my father. He came out when I was 30. Big surprise.

[@alc2979]

He was working for a Mormon owned roofing supply company. He lost his job almost immediately after.

[@tima5033]

@@alc2979 that’s brutal. I just can’t imagine the years of inner turmoil for him.

[@healinspaces4u]

❤

[@albin2232]

What a thoroughly admirable man. He radiates compassion and goodwill.

[@Argelius1]

This is one of the most insightful interviews I have ever watched. Brilliant questions, followed by extremely thoughtful answers.

[@PostMormonParenting]

I remember reading The Giver in school and it felt life changing. I read it several times on my own after that and gifted copies to other people.

[@angeleyes3386]

The Giver was one of the most profound readings of my childhood. I still remember today at 36 how it made me feel

[@keyisme1356]

3:58:30 "When you get to the end of the road, and you realize there's no tree of life, what do you have? You have years of shame experiences and a feeling of failure. So, it's often in the mists of darkness and the scorn of the people from the tall buildings, that we find out what this life is really about."

[@patricksullivan2397]

This is Sharon Sullivan here and no one discusses the devastation when you find out that you have lived with someone close to 20 years and have always wondered why a husband has never showed any sexual interest in you and is always working out of town. Then when you figure it out and along with other things you leave and you are stalked and harassed and left penniless while his Mormon family try to finish you off, Yes, I married a RM as an Irish convert and thought his aversion to sex was because of religious devotion. My life was devastated and his family covered up for him. People turned their back on me and I was left alone in the State of Utah and then had to escape to New Mexico because of physical threats. I had met another Irish lady and husband who helped me financially to escape and save my life. What about us who have been lied to and financially, mentally and physically ruined? We are supposed to feel sorry for these men? I am sure my comment will be deleted.

[@aliciamontero7061]

@Patrick Sullivan So far, your comment has not been deleted.

[@caseyjude5472]

I think you should tell your whole story. Completely. You’re not alone in this scenario. I bet the church tried to gaslight you into believing you’re the only one this has ever happened to & that it’s all your fault.

[@hullie7529]

Get in contact with John. I'm pretty sure he'll give you time to tell your story.

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

I think it's so unfair what happened to you. If you don't feel sorry for men like Kyle because of what happened to you, it's okay, it's totally understandable. I think the church is ultimately to blame here, but you know your story better that I would ever try to guess. I hope you can contact John in order to tell your story to more people.

[@MB-wz3xk]

One of the reasons Kyle's side of his story is important is to raise awareness of how and why mixed orientation marriages happen and how to stop the homophobia in the church so that harm to both the straight and non-straight spouse can stop.

[@kathyclark8274]

Reminds me a lot of Carol Lynn Pearson and her dilemma in loving and trying to help her husband, Gerald, before he died from AIDS. The book she wrote about that whole life-altering experience was very moving. I once had the pleasure of meeting her at ASU when she read her poetry at the Institute in Tempe. Much has changed in all our lives since those carefree, innocent days of yore.

[@AshworthCo]

"No More Goodbyes" by Carol Lynn Pearson. It is one of my favorites.

[@janinemaxwell4297]

My friend who used to live in Utah actually brought me a copy of that book I was in America for a holiday so traveled to Utah to see her. I read that book on my way up to San Fran and cried so much. But it was a lovely book. One of my sons paid for my trip to America and it was very healing for me as I met up with a group of Str8s a couple were mormons so knew exactly how devastated I was I felt my whole life was a lie.

[@haycarlay]

Such a great interview! I’ve read the giver but never thought about it from Kyle’s perspective.

[@lizzie-iu5pe]

The rocking chair metaphor is so true - never heard that before, but that's spot on what it's like.

[@bellebelle7868]

I really enjoyed this interview thanks guys!

[@nicolehunt6941]

There are so many stories like this out there - I want to hear the wife's story of what it's like to be married to a man that is not attracted to her. I imagine it is completely devastating.

[@farmboy4p]

Experiencing this now. I knew she was gay, but accepted her for all that she was. Then one day it flipped, no more attraction. Just excuses.

[@sheryllbeaty1752]

all you got to do then is read about Joseph Smith---he was not attracted to Emma-- within 4 years he left her ran off and brought back a 16 year old to be his wife-- then ran an got more and more---the first multiple Lesbian relationship was recorded after Smith was beaten by an angry mob-- surprising right ?/ after he was murdered - 4 of Smiths wives stayed with Emma--- the rest took off-----

[@bryanj2881]

He's s selfish man for sure. If you are not sure about your sexuality. Don't use another human being to test it out. Her life is ruined. Sure this man is liberated or whatever. What about her life? Just some tool you use and exploit then toss away? Selfish and wrong!

[@tawneenielsen4080]

I would love to share. It is more than a roller coaster ride without sweet endings. Lots of judgement from people in our side as well

[@trishayamada807]

I know one couple. We all knew “Ted” was gay, his wife “Cindy” couldn’t see it. Ted was and still is a good person, kind hearted and giving. What upsets me is he doesn’t consider that he hurt Cindy and he stole 20 years of her life where she could have been with a man who loved her truly. He stayed until their youngest turned 18 then he came out and they divorced. I understand he wanted to fit in, but it was incredibly selfish.

[@VladimirLesbian420]

As a Michigander I LOVED the Michigan and UP portion. 😂 loooove it!!!

[@Natalia-rt1lr]

Could you please activate the subtitles? They are really usefull for us, the non-English speakers😊

[@FabricofTime]

I think it's so important to recognize the point that a lot of folks in conservative churches of all stripes simply don't realize they're gay: they just think they're chaste/have a lot of self control and don't "lust" after the opposite sex, and it never crosses their mind that any attraction they might feel to the same sex might be *sexual*; they just think of it as admiration or aesthetic appreciation. This puts them in the very odd position of often being model Christians and model members of their church. For folks who are either gay or lesbian (or asexual; I don't want to forget those folks because in this case it very much applies), they often get married to someone they very much like, still assuming that they're just exceptionally good at not lusting and all the feelings will come once they are allowed to have them. And then they don't, and it is so painful, and heartbreaking, and traumatizing, and confusing. And it hurts their spouse and hurts their kids and hurts them, and they don't even know why unless they let themselves wonder for five seconds if it might be their orientation and not that they are broken. I'm bisexual, and that was (partly) my experience. I thought women were beautiful and was fascinated by nude/erotic images of women, but I thought it was just aesthetic appreciation for DECADES. I finally gained the freedom and agency to consider I might be bi, and it was like, "Oooooooooooh. Well, that makes sense." Of course, I'm also attracted to men, so it was less noticeable.

[@SamTechWorld9]

Idk if you have written a book but dang please do so. Many people would benefit from your story. I mean you are already doing so much for the lgbtq community! Thank you 😊

[@bernhardvodusek7481]

You are so talking out of my Heart. I grew up as Gay Mormon. I was living as it was expectet. I got married to a Devil and actually ran through 17 Years of mental Abuse and Violence and was mentally destroyed. At the end I was on that Point wether I get out of this or commit Suizide. At least I came out with age 44, got out of that Marriage, lost my Existance and my 3 Kids but at least found a wonderful Man and am in a very happy Relationship now. BUT I sure went through Hell on Earth just because of being obedient and fulfilling Expectations

[@KitKat-gw4rh]

Mormonism is so destructive!!!!! I'm so sorry to everyone who's pressured to get married, and to get married so young, and to get married without attraction.

[@petrmacek2763]

WoW! I have never before listened to more than 7 hours interview. So strong. I belive, that this presure you went true make you a most beautiful diamant. I never have been LDS but I was in touch with the church for few years and one mormon missionary was in love with me. And his story after that was very simmilar, like yours but the difference is that he still lives in his marriage. How I wish could find this freedom and be happy. Tanks guys for what you are doing! It is relly life saving.

[@ww-iy9xx]

I've always thought of Mormonism as a 'nice cult,' or a non-destructive one. But lately I've been going down the rabbit hole and watching a lot of these videos, and it's become very clear just how wrong I was. It is destructive.

[@marietate1915]

I did as well, but I have totally changed my mind. I would never want my loved ones involved in this religion.

[@pattisonpattison3639]

As an ex Mormon, and homosexual, I see in this the complexity of bisexuality. I could never be intimate with a woman, under any circumstance, and certainly not for a false belief system.

[@krisfisher8274]

We all just keep putting things on our shelves, until, for me, the shelf was so heavy that it created a hole in the floor when it finally fell!

[@ngatihine6072]

I Married then divorced and stayed friends. We coparent, cohabit and I'm happy being a single dad and our kids are happy too. We quit Mormonism and its superstitious nonsense.

[@miguy248]

I'm NOT -- and never have been Mormon! -- but all this is so relatable---especially when he gets into the AUTHENTICITY part -- (around time-stamp 1:25:21) -- 'everything' he said (and is saying )...is so true ( we are our own worst enemies ) and everything they are saying is so, so beneficial for people to hear ...for any man that has gone through this """journey"""... and this message is really, truly something everyone [Gay, Str8 or otherwise ] should listen to -- it would help so many people !!!!! I also, really like the moderators term WALLPAPERING...and his apt analogy [ he brought-up] regarding the movie The TRUMAN SHOW...I also Like Kyle Ashworth's saying -- ' you don't know --- what you don't know '...and... " how can I fly when I was not created to fly' [I'm a snake & snakes do not fly ] it's not congruent with how I was designed...I like his using the word dissonance ( how perfect )...his use of the word *conspiracy* really turned-on a light bulb... his recognition of an uncontrolled internal confusion explosion + manufactured homophobia says a lot ...along with his point regarding collateral damage guilt..all of this is soo true...and so SPOT-on..... plus affirming ... YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THIS WHOLE VIDEO ( good message again comes at time-stamp ( around 3:34:21 and on) how many people are we willing to loose also listen at time-stamp 4:10:00 ..........

[@darcy2965]

John, I want Kyle to be my friend too. A very special man. Great stories & memories...and he remembers sweet small very special stuff. I can understand what you said about how he crosses aisles, is respected, he's so kind fair intelligent humble. And actually a great representative of the good of LDS. I'm not LDS. He's a gift to humanity.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Kyle is so eloquent and describes his experience so deeply with the analogies he offers and by the way he describes his experiences. I really have appreciated his story and how even-keeled he seems after so many difficult challenges. I am looking forward to watching the rest of this interview.

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

Oh my god, this is so relatable. When the dude said "and I realized the manual said 'children', plural", I almost screamed. That wasn't fair for anyone. I left Christianity when I realized I was frantically doing things that I didn't want to do with no result. It's really sad.

[@danijadedd]

OMG me too. I audibly said "OH NO."

[@patriciahisoire5753]

Don’t confuse Christianity with Mormonism. They are nothing alike.

[@aidasa3791]

Girl pls

[@caseyjude5472]

2:51:54 -Exactly. See: Natasha Helfer

[@elizabethpower7897]

I did speech and debate in high school (dramatic interpretation ) I also love The Giver, I never thought about it from that perspective!

[@thewrongshoes]

If someone really wants to have a mixed orientation marriage , please be honest with your partner before marriage! Let the other person make a informed decision. I’m not judging this guest - he did what he thought was best but I’m saying to anyone else thinking of doing this

[@missylee3022]

It's not that simple

[@Zia_l8r]

This would obviously be the best option, but for many people in the church, they aren’t even honest with themselves about their orientation.

[@tawneenielsen4080]

He didn't do what he thought was best. She should've known and her agency not stolen. He had his agency all along. He did what what best and easiest for him to face

[@gwanyeva]

@@tawneenielsen4080 the church promises gay people that they can become straight or at least be successful in marriage if they’re faithful enough. That’s not agency, that isn’t informed consent. Yeah, I’m sure it sucked for her that she was married to a gay man, I’d put the blame more on the church and the society that teaches people to enter into bad marriages.

[@tawneenielsen4080]

@@gwanyeva the church promises no such thing. No different then if you marry a return missionary your life will be happy. It's definitely positive hopes and misunderstanding of certain topics, but to say the church promises that someone will not have save sex attraction is just false. Bottom line, if someone CHOOSES to get married then another choice is taken away. No different then any other concept of choice. If I choose to have kids then my choice of being selfish is gone. It's called integrity. My choices were taken away because he practiced being able to have a marriage and sleep with men. My agency was no less valuable than his... but I didn't get that freedom.

[@palomabennettwordpressblog7490]

My Dad who was raised Catholic was also an Eagle Scout by age twelve. I believe at the time he was the youngest Eagle Scout ever. This was in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

[@RY-fe3rt]

A thoroughly fascinating interview! I am not a Mormon or particularly religious but can relate to being hard sold on the concept of different orientation marriages. In my case a former employer 'casually pitched' me the idea, using the example of two of her friends and championing how 'happy' the arrangement had worked for them. Much like Kyle points out, the 'softer' option was sold to me, advocating for complete transparency and entering into the marriage as 'friends & partners'. I later discovered she was aware that I had a female childhood friend and was trying to foist this 'arrangement' onto our friendship. My mind still boggles at how an employer felt entitled to try and insinuate themselves into employees life to such a degree. All done with plausible deniability factored in, of course.

[@jy285]

Ha ha, “moving pipe” My mission was Spanish in rural Idaho and I moved all sorts of pipe 😂

[@oonaellaa]

1:56:20 I'm from Finland and I guess the "Yooper" comes from the Finnish word "juu" which is pronounced like "you". It basically stands for yeah and Finns through it around a lot.

[@oonaellaa]

Throw* lol

[@tracygrist9828]

Kyle, you are a remarkable human. I hear how well you articulate your emotions and experiences and it makes my life experience more wonderful. John, your questions and observations are on point. They accent and highlight the wholeheartedness of this amazing man. To you both, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[@loveyourgrief8223]

Oh my gosh! His MLM comparison was amazing.

[@safari79]

Great interview, Kyle. Tom Osmond was the deaf brother. He was my mailman at Snow.

[@randalllake2785]

If you have kids and are coming out tell your kids the truth and everyone else who loves you. Immediately

[@janinemaxwell4297]

My ex wouldn’t tell our boys I had to break the news to all of them it was heartbreaking to watch them all fall apart

[@paulam408]

It was Tom or Virl who was deaf, not Alan. Alan was the oldest singing Osmond.

[@deborahannstephenson741]

Actually, Merrill Osmond's son Justin has severe- to -profound hearing loss and has been wearing hearing aids from the age of 2 years old.

[@kimsteinke713]

Never miss an episode.❤️🙏 I need to make a donation with some real money. Amen God bless y'all thank you I'm sending them to my family. And see you are The Giver Jonah ❤️

[@danijadedd]

Me, a non-Morman: "What's a steak president?"

[@mccsnackin]

No worries closeted gays, I didn’t tell anyone I was gay until much closer to age 30. And it stayed amongst a few close friends until 32.

[@taylorpnw612]

I know this isn't the most important part of the story but the atomic bomb testing and high cancer rates wiped out all of my grandpa's graduating class a long time ago. He has been the only one remaining for like two decades now and is a cancer survivor himself at 81yrs old.

[@funnellross]

Thanks for the sharing your story as I have only watched the first part I am hoping that you went on to have a happy life after all the turmoil.

[@ariane1263]

Thank you so much for this Episode

[@johnathanstevens8436]

I wanted to cry when he said 1/3 there ..

[@dande3139]

If JS taught that little immortal babies can remain babies on celestial thrones, and reign as gods forever... Why can't the LGBTA have the exact same priviledge?

[@mindyjensen6356]

Infants on thrones 🤩

[@dande3139]

For reference, Joseph Smith King Follet discourse: "But as the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead, and be for ever living in the learning of God. It will never grow: it will still be the child, in the same precise form as it appeared before it died out of its mother's arms, but possessing all the intelligence of a God. Children dwell in the mansions of glory and exercise power, but appear in the same form as when on earth. Eternity is full of thrones, upon which dwell thousands of children reigning on thrones of glory, with not one cubit added to their stature."

[@Applest2oApples]

@@dande3139 Man that's pretty dumb

[@stephenjennings3844]

@@dande3139 JS' teaching reminds me of the child vampire in Ann Rice's "Interview with a vampire" portrayed in the film by Kirsten (Kursten?) Dunst. The child tragically was eternally damned to spend her immortality in an infant state. It did not end well for this psychologically disturbed creature.

[@Applest2oApples]

@@kiwimon3204 did you,check the reference given to see if it was an incorrect quotation?

[@mindyjensen6356]

You had dinner with Father Dolan? Awesome!

[@gramyhaze8195]

I like this guy, great interview and so handsome!

[@kyleashworth5158]

He sounds dreamy. 😍😂

[@talkalotakaka]

Ah, I guess you were just a lil nervous at the beginning. I’m listening twice because you are so wonderful and clear. I feel so fortunate in my upbringing around a myriad of people that I did not have to struggle as you did. I am so glad that you have overcome so much. You are truly inspirational. Xos 🌊🔥🔥🌊

[@58jennypenny]

what about the poor woman in all of that charade??

[@wayno5655]

All power to you man!!

[@memyselfandid]

The question I am about to ask I have been so genuinely curious about and by asking this question I mean absolutely no disrespect or any ill will or any kind of judgement or anything bad.. so here it goes: Why in the world would a gay or lesbian couples be trying to get the LDS temples and bishops to marry them? So I guess my real question is why would any gay or lesbian want to be a part of a Religious group who absolutely doesn't accept you for who you are? My cousin came home from an LDS mission, he came out as gay, married a guy and he constantly says that he wants to marry his husband for time and all eternity in the LDS temple. I'm not saying he is bad for wanting this or right or wrong. Im just asking why? Why does he want so badly to be a part of a religion who will never accept him? Why does he want to be a part of a group of individuals who don't support or believe in who/what he is, and who openly oppose the lifestyle he is living? Again, no disrespect meant in this question, no judgement to any gay or lesbian people or couple. I'm really sorry if it's worded badly. I just personally would never want to show up to a place with a bunch of people who want nothing to do with my life

[@RY-fe3rt]

It's a valid question. I'm not a Mormon, but I imagine being one is as much a part of his identity as his sexuality. Making the painful decision to split from the church must feel like an amputation or loss of self. Making the decision to stay and strive for acceptance is, of course, just as destructive. That's the cruel irony of being born into certain religions for LGBTQI+ individuals. IMHO

[@lizzypop2628]

You have to admit Ellen is a G for coming out on television in that day and age

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

The Velvet Rage by Alan Downs is a good reference. This bloke has lovely gentle eyes.

[@deborahcarroll2172]

The way gay people are treated by the Church is the reason I finally saw that there's no God. We are told that we are all children of God and he loves us. I ca.e to realize that people are born gay. God made them this way but then condems them for what they are, and this is a loving father? I began to doubt and payed close attention to all the nonsensical beliefs and teachings and finally knew I had to let go of the belief I God. Any of the Christian faiths teach the same fairy tales, so I just decided to believe only what can be proved as real.

[@steelstrings4]

Is scouting a requirement for LDS kids?

[@kaijessen3654]

Not anymore

[@kyleashworth5158]

The Church has now abandoned the scouting program.

[@SamTechWorld9]

Wish this content was in Spanish to share it with my family and members in my hometown

[@elizabethpower7897]

Wait, I just got to the part about the West branch being excommunicated. They were excommunicated for being too orthodox? Wow, it’s the opposite of what usually is talked about on this podcast, haha!

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Soft focus - I always thought it was a silk screen across the lens.

[@TKittymom]

We used to go to the Wisconsin state fair every year because my dad is a huge fan of the Yoopers and they played there when I was a kid.

[@julievorwaller4548]

My husband's sister was married for over 20yrs and 5 kids. her husband started cheating on her how she found out i was told sooooo sad!

[@randalllake2785]

I asked my therapist how successful conversion therapy was a B Y U. She said they had success when turning men off men, but they had no success getting them attracted to women. For heaven sakes who would choose to be gay. Think about it, what is in it for you? AIDS, oustracism from your family and religion, a very hard life ahead, ,. When did heterosexual decide to be heterosexual?

[@carolatchley3797]

I'm curious about the cuddling sessions. He said they were divided into telestial, terrestrial and celestial. What was the difference between these? Was it the degree of clothing? Aside from this question, I thought this interview was wonderful. He put things in terms that I hadn't considered before, like the rocking chair analogy.

[@kyleashworth5158]

Just to clarify: the “cuddle party” I was invited to did include three different options. They were: fully clothed cuddling; naked cuddling but separated by a sheet; cuddling “within your comfort level.” In the interview I did joke saying it was as if there were a celestial, terrestrial and telestial version of these options. Because they did offer three different “comfort” levels. The participants do not call them celestial, telestial or terrestrial. But I will! 😂

[@carolatchley3797]

@@kyleashworth5158 Thanks for explaining. What a fabulous interviewee you are!

[@sistersubdued9503]

Wow! He spilled the tea about Northstar. How long will it take them to turn to dust?

[@kyleashworth5158]

Soon? Fingers crossed 🤞

[@braddahg]

1:42:38 - hiding behind purity also worked for me as an evangelical. Red flags should have been raised when staying pure around women was so easy.

[@sheryllbeaty1752]

Smith had 40 wives-- most of these men in this church had multiple wives-- that means they had lesbian relationships in the marriage--- then all the folks are connected causing birth defects -- so if you marry in the church then your marrying a distant cousin-- if you marry outside the church then they want them converted-- isnt that the reason you found someone outside the church in the first place? / so then they shun and want your kids cause you married outside and they cant convert them-- thats also the point of marrying outside the church-- who wants to be married to a man that is going to convert -to believe in Smith multiple marriages --the RLDS-- split from the LDS-- but they all connected together-- its a birth defect risk for your kids to marry someone in the Church-if no one leaves and Generation after Generation stay and marry across the Isle -- -

[@Cat-tastrophee]

What Kyle is talking about with regards to intimacy with his wife makes sense to me. I've dated guys who I genuinely liked and cared about as a friend, and could enjoy the physical intimacy aspect, but the attraction just wasn't there. They had googly eyes for me and I just felt...meh. I felt terrible about it, and the breakups caused pain for both of us, but I couldn't create something that just wasn't there.

[@itsemeinin]

So he’s divorced?? What about his wife? I want to hear from her. More please!

[@slavbarbie]

There's an article online and it says she started happily dating soon after divorce and I guess she'll be fine. I worried for her too

[@jennymiller1405]

My mission commission 🤮 I remember when President Church from the Michigan Lansing Michigan mission rolled out the daily requirements. I did not have a good experience serving under him.

[@bee4123]

Thank you, just thank you for all you're doing and bringing the lgbt+ struggle within the mormon church to light.

[@dianesheldon2591]

I have to laugh at John being amazed at a bank in a grocery store. Bank of Montreal (BMO one of Canada’s big 5 banks) used to have small branches in Safeways. They were called instore branches and a few still exist. All the same functions of a main branch but no tellers so no cash services. But you could do lending and investments there. I worked at a branch that services the clients of an old Safeway instore.

[@maxjenkins7139]

The transition back home was harder than going to Peru.for me, No structural information.

[@foxibot]

A MLM was a good example to compare Mormonism to.

[@MikeSmith-vh6rl]

The lies and the damage the Mormon church dors to families and individuals is huge. I am so much happier now that I have left.

[@strongallalong89]

Served my mission in Finland. Trying to decide if that dialect reminds me at all of Finnish (still speak fluently; I kinda pride myself on that). 😂

[@tawneenielsen4080]

What about the story of us abused women that these men married?

[@katietomlin253]

Such a hard situation

[@lizzypop2628]

Shoutout to Lansing MI! Home of my grandma❤ Michigan is a beautiful state. Family also has a vacation home in Houghton Lake!!!! Edit: now he’s in Mackinaw??😍😍 we vacation in Cheboygan, St. igneous and Mackinac island! When I clicked on this video I wasn’t expecting these connections!

[@foxibot]

I really like your podcasts and after hearing your podcast on the young married lesbian Mormon who had health issues. I suggested “ the L mom” a fun witty ex gay Mormon mom should collab with you. She is in true crime and I really like her. She has provided a lot of history on the daybelle crime case. About the Mormon doctrines. She just did a video yesterday about being gay and what happened when she came out to her family friends and church and people in Utah as gay. It was funny because she has a great sense of humor and so does her wife who made a appearance, but tragic too, so I shared your recent podcast and told her about the young gay married Mormon girl you interviewed. It’s important we support good creatures gay or straight or wherever they are in their personal life. We all love her whether we are gay or straight and I would venture to say most of her listeners are straight and she probably also has many Christians and Mormons, and ex Mormons. She is funny and candid but respectful. Cults and religious groups fascinate me. And how it affects the people involved.

[@KP-nf4yl]

I wonder if the roommate who asked the “Are you gay?” question ended up coming out as gay. In other words, perhaps he was asking bc he wanted to find out if he was not alone. I’m guessing Kyle knows more about where his ex-roommate’s life ended up and would’ve mentioned it if that had been the case, but just curious.

[@preesi1403]

The hilarious thing about this is that prior to Christians coming to the Americas, Native Americans had a concept called TWO SPIRIT. Two Spirits are LGBT people. Native Americans regarded gay and genderbending ppl as mystics and able to see both sides of all issues. They were great people and valued in society as charismatics and artistic ppl. Then Christianity came in and destroyed it. So Mormons thought that Natives were something else. lol

[@kathyborthwick6738LakotaEmoji]

Yes-We call them two-spirited! 👵🏽👋🏾🦅🪶🦅

[@kathyborthwick6738LakotaEmoji]

Many of our two-Spirited named the children and were healers, Heyokas!

[@kathyborthwick6738LakotaEmoji]

Aho Mitakuye Oiyasin Mita Kolas-Lakota Oglala Blessing!

[@Ktrussman]

In 2003, I was 18 a few months out of high-school living in an apartment in Portland Mi, about 20 mins from Lansing. I had two morman boys as neighbors, they wore suits I kind of thought they were weird but did have a few conversations with them.I wonder if they knew you. They never pushed the religion. I was so naive then, I knew nothing about the world. I am now 38 living in EL.