Commander Clash S4 Episode 2: Card Type Tribal

[@EffinChat]

"I'm like Tomer, I play nothing during my turns" RICHARD PLEASE HE HAS A FAMILY, THAT WAS SAVAGE

[@SmartAlec1]

The kids aren't gonna' be eating tonight.

[@faceoctopus4571]

I liked it.

[@MtgVGandBGFan]

I was laughing so hard after that comment... classic...

[@ryanhansen9779]

Savage!

[@jloza1950]

Lost it at "Tomer durdles under layers of protection..." ahahha

[@sofer2230]

"For Tom, I thought 'if I was the most evil person ever, I would pick Gaddock Teeg'". Sheesh, give Tom a little bit more credit than that :P Edit: Tom just admitted his first choice was Ruric Thar. Never mind, Tomer. My bad.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Shai Ofer gaddock teeg is my group control commander. I don't control to the point you can't do anything, but I designed my deck to shut down infinite/unfair combos

[@jackhemsworth7515]

Louise Drake my group game commander is Nekusar. I have puzzlebox, forced fruition, megrim and all the wheels apart from one. It nearly always places 2nd. It kills people with card draw. My single player deck is a 5c ur dragon.

[@ryanhansen9779]

The Genju's all here! Planeswalkers, all cards have three options, so Planeswalkers are just sorcery speed Charms!

[@jojoyojimbi]

Damnit Tomer you could have animated dead on the rec sage at ANY TIME to prevent it from blowing your stuff up, and dropped the sylvan to fish out the white honden, come on man, you're slacking

[@barretfriesen3426]

I saw Cruel Reality in Tomer`s decklist. I LOVE that card!

[@BenDy3223]

Tomer, I would definitely give you some credit for turning people on to Mystic Remora, I have talked to maybe half a dozen people who said they knew about that card from watching you play it, and it's definitely why I have two playsets tucked away.

[@Alvikus]

Dabble Babble I bought some grab bags from my lsg before it closed, got 2 playsets of them. I use them in all U commander decks, and even use it in casual decks.

[@hobojoe2769]

Also Solemnity removes the cumulative upkeep

[@TabbyLikeAKat]

Idk if Richard was aware of this, but while Natural Affinity can be used to animate you lands (which worked out well for him there), one of the best reasons to include it is because if someone wrath's with Titania on the board, it works as a 1 sided Armageddon with a wrath for the Titania player as well, essentially wiping everyone's lands giving you a bunch of 5/3's

[@kingfuzzy2]

Also is fine in a lands matter/ helix pinnacle deck as a political tool or kamahl fist of krosa

[@justinkp]

Great episode! Lots of fun. Richard's deck was brilliant - he builds completely different decks than Seth and his decks are a joy to behold. Very glad that Tom did not go through on his 4 game vendetta against Tomer and even more glad that wasn't staged like some melodramatic wrestling crap as I saw someone claim in the comments of last week's episode - that would have been horrible. Maybe creatures shouldn't have been option - not only do they seem more "mundane" but they've both been pushed heavily in power level and through ETB effects and continuous effect can do most of what the other card types can - but it still worked out great. It could also have been interesting to allow 5 or 10 cards of other types just for a real surprise factor and some interesting possibilities - perhaps if you ever revisit a similar theme you could consider this. Regarding when you guys were talking about the possibility of commander on arena, its worth noting that commander is probably the most popular format by far now (it seems like every set has more cards for commander), especially among "casual" players who are being targeted by arena. The problem on MTGO is that they make absolutely no money off a 4 player casual game of commander so they are not at all incentivized to code anything at all for it - in fact they lose money and would probably love to get rid of it. But this could change in arena - there are many possible ways to monetize commander. Since there's no trading planned, if Wizards just sells the cards directly themselves there will be a large demand for commander cards if there is a functional way to play it and this by itself could make it extremely financially lucrative. There are all sorts of other ways they could make money from it in some way. Given how popular commander is I would be shocked if Wizards/Hasbro has not had meetings about this, and while it may not be available on release, I could definitely see it showing up sooner than you guys think.

[@midnalight6419]

But you can't replace Seth.

[@justinkp]

Sure, but you can't replace Richard, or anyone really, either; everyone is unique and brings something of their own to the game. Of course Seth is special and the "face" of MTGGoldfish - I will miss his creative jank, joy in playing magic and his love for Paharmonicon rivals my own, but he clearly wants a break (all of the people who are crying out for his return - you should see that its almost certain Seth is not here because he currently doesn't want to be, so the most you will likely succeed in his making him feel bad) and we get a worthy substitute in my eyes until Seth returns, which he almost surely will. Plus we get him for 2 guest spots over the next 2 weeks.

[@matthewwypyszinski4873]

There is one g/r counter spell lol, I get control decks all the time with it in my mono green stompy deck. G/r, counter target instant

[@kingfuzzy2]

There is a lot of nonblue counterspells at minimum 26 in each colour including green and there's some fairly strong generic Mana ones too I've ran across a few 4 colour nonblue spellslinger decks with several of the instant speed versions in them.

[@Rococorico]

Spoiler alert for the entire season: Richard wins.

[@TabbyLikeAKat]

Titania too stronk

[@sendaran]

I have no idea how I have managed to skip this episode. And as an Atraxa superfriends player, it was extremely painful to watch Jen just skip turn 4 instead of casting Atraxa with perfect mana and proliferating to the moon starting from the next turn.

[@Cangaroombi]

Richard there is a green Stifle (more or less) and it even draws you a card: Bind. It would have been perfect in your deck!

[@DrukenReaps]

I think I'd have played Omnath locus of rage instead of Titania but I love the idea of the deck

[@DM932]

"There's no monogreen stifle" Bind disagrees.

[@jackalano4100]

Sethless=Boardwhipeless

[@MrShinyObject]

I really liked this challenge, and while Tom definitely had the advantage (there are just far more creatures than any other card type), I think everything kind of balanced out.

[@TheFastfoodgaming]

Rust, Avoid fate, and Bind are green counters

[@samarbrander981]

eyyy this guy knows whats up

[@Penniwhistle]

And Guttural Response

[@andresortega4940]

Lifeforce, for the og mtg players...

[@MeriadocMyr]

don't forget the green timewalk

[@richardford266]

Was just coming down here to post these.

[@ryanhansen9779]

28:49, Are we all just going to ignore Gutteral Response and Avoid Fate as Green Counterspells? Also honorable mention of Savage Summoning.

[@swiftcubone1199]

There should be an episode where they all play a deck they own as in a deck that they built and play personally.

[@PeteDoesGames]

Why did jen not play atraxa on turn 4 to proliferate and save liliana

[@4illeen]

Green counterspell is called Avoid Fate.

[@kvetchenfinks7044]

Red also has artifact blast and guttural response

[@HTXVintageVibes]

That was so dirty of Richard to kill tomar after he solved the “tom problem” when he could have played the blue safety sphere instead lol. He saved Jen and Richard only to die by the play.

[@MeriadocMyr]

Sprout Swaaaaarm, favourite card. Sorry Tom, Kodoma's Reach is great but too expected.

[@uncletaint2010]

Momir Vig, Simic Visionary mono-creature tho.

[@SunniestAutumn]

"Tomer, does your deck do *anything?"* "No."

[@slendermann4697]

do an epic week, each player has to build around one of the epic cards from kamigawa and has to win through the epic trigger. Like someone plays an enchantment deck with enduring ideal or a token deck with eternal swarm. I really want to see how you guys would build this.

[@colinjakubec9566]

Did jen tap out on turn 4 instead of cast atraxa?

[@N1ghthavvk]

Yeah, I didn't understand it either.

[@justinkp]

People make mistakes.

[@Maugena]

Well she also had the option to kill Richard's commander several times which would probably have ended up saving her, but she never did it. I'm thinking she's taking it easy on them. A kind of appeasement mentality. Everyone's guilty of that every so often in EDH.

[@MeriadocMyr]

-3 new Vraska on the 5/3 token, definately not on the 5/3 titania which instantly made another 2 5/3s

[@Omegaroth666]

Just visualized a demon token smacking upside the head and taking his crown. It was pretty funny.

[@vipper57779]

I respect that noone went gaddot teeg or ruric thar tho. Also seeing so many walkers and nonchain veil makes me sad. Couldve cut a few lands for those last 3 walkers tho lmao. Awesome theme guys!

[@natanoj16]

Johnny Trignano 2 of the 3 walkers does nothing in her deck ^^

[@vipper57779]

Jonatan S oh i know. Im still greedy tho lol. Ajanis help once u get token making walkers out. And tbh i didnt look what the 3rd one was lol

[@dagsjolin9887]

I think Richard was helped GREATLY by the "grouphug carddraw". That deck seems like it can run out of gas pretty quickly if you throw some spells around, with low chance of drawing cards on your own.

[@justinkp]

Especially since he said he didn't draw any of his card draw (of which green probably has a lot if you're playing creatures).

[@dagsjolin9887]

I checked his list and he pretty much only has Momentous Fall as a way draw multiple cards.

[@justinkp]

Odd, at the end of the game he said he never drew any of his card draw, but luckily the "grouphug card draw" helped him greatly. I wonder what he was referring to.

[@bumbles_ttv9823]

Replenish would have been great to see tomer. Also there is a green enchantment that counters spells it's called lifeforce.

[@ryanhansen9779]

Also Counterbalance and soothsaying.

[@kingfuzzy2]

BTW this is the best episode to rewatch

[@michaelburt9888]

@17:20 Elspeth Tirel has a board wipe ability that only leaves lands and tokens in play

[@WolfgangF88]

28:48 Don't forget Mages' Contest, the bid life maybe mono-red counter spell

[@Gingerbreadley]

Hey they took my recommendation. And no one ran any good removal and super friends isn’t going to do much. Oh well it was pretty fun

[@TBD83]

The command zone has a great podcast about guidelines when building a commander deck i feel that some players might want to watch that in today's episode.

[@quincybriley4113]

SirFunky why

[@ryanhansen9779]

@@quincybriley4113 They have a concept called Rough Stats, Each EDH deck should have about 10 mana ramp, 10 Card Draw or hand refill, Five Single target removal, five board wipes, and 38 lands, 15 Stand alone good cards, 15 enablers such as Panharmonicon, and many cards with Overlap such as Solemn Simulacrum or Decree of Pain. The above commenter is recommending more of this out of the Goldfish crew, especially board clears even if Seth is gone. You can't rely on another player to spot remove for you.

[@jonathanbirsby]

Avoid Fate is a green counter

[@HanannieOSRS]

Great game!!!

[@PalPlays]

18:28 "Couldn't have drawn that up better! Now let's hit Tomer for 1." Just how broad is the term "nut draw" nowadays?

[@gildarmesh3809]

even without more recent artifacts an artifact deck with or without limit would have stomped all these decks you could have even run wastes and artifact lands at this point in time

[@faceoctopus4571]

If recuring Rec Sage was such a big concern, tomer could have recured it himself using Animate Dead first.

[@lessercrow]

Darn I was hoping someone would play tribal tribal

[@kevindursteler267]

Gutteral response is a red green counterspell

[@TheFrozenMoogle]

There is a Green/Red Counterspell. Gutteral Response.

[@totalcoward]

Just started watching. Hoping Jen gets to abuse the new Planeswalker Legend rule

[@TheRealWormbo]

Spoiler: She did. (I mean, that's really mandatory if you can't play anything but lands and PWs.)

[@PikachaoArt]

I missed Richard

[@Summon_Aery]

Didn't we all.

[@justinkp]

His deck was fantastic. Having your theme be all instants and going in the direction he did was awesome and unexpected.

[@tmlrules2]

tomer do you have a list for your paper 5 colour enchantress deck?

[@acidix983]

I'd also love to see it

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Sebastien Blackwell it's on their website. Look for the thumbnail on the site

[@tomerabramovici32]

This is the current version: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/621766#paper

[@ExKiwi-yw8er]

Kinda surprised you didn't go for sorcery tribal with titania, seems deeper. 38 sorceries on edhrec vs the 12 instants.

[@jackiemorey6911]

Omg, I was waiting for tomer to play this deck (or something like it) for like, a year

[@ryanhansen9779]

Yes, too bad you'll have to keep waiting. He was nervous about losing the Sphere of Safety so just held onto a lot of great spells till his life total accidentally ran out. I understand it, but still I feel bad for Tomer not liking the ramp here.

[@ineptginger5238]

I feel like sorceries with Omnath locus of rage would be much more powerful than titania with instants. Just have a bunch of ramp spells and you don't need to worry about saccing lands and you're guaranteed at least one elemental a turn.

[@SmartAlec1]

Tom's deck: Looks really effective, but I mean, creatures is boring IMO. Granted, the theme of going all in makes it way more interesting. Impressed with the budget, though. Jennifer: I mean, everyone has done a super friends Atraxa, so kind of the same as Tom's deck, accept the budget isn't as impressively small. Though, IMO, I think planeswalkers are much more interesting than toolbox creatures that are essentially multi facetted, tap enchantments that double as a time bomb. Richard's: Damn, that's actually super spicy! 12/10 on the I love-ometer Tomer: I personally have always hated using Karona, but this is an unorthodox use for her. It was really clever to use enchantment creatures in there.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Smart Alec I have a progenitus deck that was theros god tribal.

[@SmartAlec1]

Sounds pretty smexy. Do you ever get Progenitus out? I'm guessing Karametra would be of great use if you try to do that.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Smart Alec it helps that I have 7 different any colour sources and a chromatic lantern

[@SmartAlec1]

True, do you have the mana doublers?

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Smart Alec I have a zendikar resurgent and a door to nothing/primal amulet combo

[@jonathanbirsby]

what about Animate Dead on the reclamation sage

[@swiftdragonrider]

titania is just reallyyyyy strong you just need lands and your commander to win end the rest is support.

[@DavidHernandez-yc3cq]

I am dying for ya'll to play anthoussa spellslinger, titania is interesting tho

[@Alvikus]

At 54:00 the play is Mana Reflection, Darksteel Mutation the Deadwood, Imprision in the Moon the Spider, and Collective Restraint to survive.... ffs tomer

[@Alvikus]

Mono green counter spell: Avoid Fate, G: Counter a spell that targets you or a permanent you control.

[@speakerd66]

Alvikus I was looking for this. A buddy of mine runs it in his Omnath Locus of Mana deck as a troll card and it always get someone. It's strictly worse than just a blossoming defence or something like that, but it's also way more hilarious.

[@Welverin]

Duncan McIntyre It's the green Mana Tithe.

[@dyrnwynski]

Guttural Response and Avoid Fate are the only green* counterspells. Although they do have a Stifle in Bind

[@Welverin]

Andrew Blank Psst, green.

[@dyrnwynski]

Derp, thanks.

[@mrtommo9996]

if everyone is in green, then no one is Greeny Kappa

[@sheepyyuu2809]

I loved tomers lore comment about if venser +2 karn that venser might die.

[@Stroggoii]

The Legendary Planeswalkers and new damage redirection rules were changed for Arena.

[@stormstrike1769]

Tomer could you please share the decklist of your paper enchantment commander deck?

[@ryanhansen9779]

Hunter's Insight? Richard? TOMER PLEASE GET THAT MANA REFLECTION INTO PLAY, it is bad enough that you wave it in front of me because I can't afford it, do you have to ALSO straight not cast it when you need the mana?

[@kingfuzzy2]

Good news It's 3 dollars now

[@bigblind6422]

So didn't like near the end where Richard turned lands into creatures since Jen tapped out for convenience yet she would have had a blocker which changes the attack math. Not sure how this could have been communicated effectively, if at all, to avoid this situation.

[@andresortega4940]

Green counterspell is an enchantment, lifeforce, and it only targets black spells...

[@androkguz]

"All our decks must be of a single card type" Wow, great idea "It can be anything. It can be creature" ...why you gotta go and ruin it?

[@1AlasBabylon]

To be fair, the other choices would've been: * artifact (Yeah, no, Jen's right, it would've been way too boring/easy) * sorcery (arguably instants but worse) * land (... hmm...)

[@x3mskbord]

I think sorceries could be alright honestly. while they are similar to instants, there are areas the two don't overlap. For example, all but like 5 non-permanent wraths are sorceries, not instants. all of the good ramp spells are sorceries. most of the powerful "go big" spells, like Rise of the Dark Realms, Epic Experiment, and Mizzix Mastery are sorceries. and sorceries actually have a win condition: approach of the second sun. in short, I imagine a sorcery tribal deck would be a quickly ramp to bomb sorcery after bomb sorcery type of deck

[@natanoj16]

I wanted to try Lands xD

[@1AlasBabylon]

I actually threw this together last night - I have no way of testing it, and it'd undoubtedly perform terribly, but it's at least somewhat cohesive. www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/801446 [edit] Actually, jsut found this one on the site as well, made today, looks far better than mine: www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/801839#paper

[@sharkfinnigan9876]

Before watching the full video: Mutant’s Prey actually does a literal nothing in Richards deck. It requires controlling a creature with a +1/+1 counter.

[@justinkp]

After watching the full video: You probably see that isn't necessarily a problem in Richard's deck ;)

[@jackhemsworth7515]

Single theme commander? I'd choose Artifacts led by Karn.

[@tomjackal5708]

asmr jen best jen

[@will11233]

how many other people were disappointed in tom for not running mono-green sorcerys and just ramp the whole game

[@MissBrieBiscuit]

Swaaaaamp

[@MountieBeaver42]

1:31:35 the bant tamiyo saw play in bant coco for the brief time coco and her were in standard together, after coco rotated there wasn't a good bant deck for her duration in standard.

[@maeveballan2312]

You should do another standard commander commander clash

[@JacoDeltaco]

molten influence is a red counter spell... for insten and sorcery still it is a counter spell

[@Illianor123]

Jen shouldn't have named avatar to force Richard to name avatar so he colder buff the elementals.

[@samueldionne9675]

So if they revisit this theme, then we could see Sorcery, Artifact, Land, and Tribal as other options. As much as I'd like to see the other types, I'm not sure how Tribal and Land would work out...

[@FadedMTG]

Samuel Dionne legendary is a type as well

[@samueldionne9675]

Jerame Perkins While building a deck around legendary is cool (and really easy, see Captain Sisay), Legendary is a Supertype, not an actual card type. It doesn't help turn on Delirium, nor does it power up Tarmogoyf. For some reason though, Tribal is considered a card type, and I've got no idea why. It really should be a supertype, especially since there are no cards that just say Tribal as it's type.

[@zurran00]

55minutes why not mana reflection into other enchants? seems bad casting korona , you could have had colective restraint plus a few other enchants.

[@tomerabramovici32]

Yeah if I had a chance to do it again I'd mana reflection -> collective retraint -> darksteel mutation the spike weaver -> honden -> sylvan library -> font of fertility. At the time I was more afraid of Tom just blowing up my pillowfort and steamrolling me.

[@thenightangel05]

Tomer, my friend....you had animate dead in your hand while the rec sage was in his gy, just take his hate peice and he cant kill your stuff. Ima finish the clash now. just had to say this.

[@isaaccrisp4496]

"i only play instants"---> wins using titania. So sick

[@x3mskbord]

Why is everyone complaining about Tom's deck being boring? Creatures are literally the most interesting card type in the game. They enter combat, they have various types of effects, and they can be interacted with and/or affected by every other card type. Think about how boring the game, or even Magic in general, would be without creatures. Planeswalkers are never really threatened by anything so they can just keep plussing until they ultimate. Enchantments, in Tomer's words, "don't do anything" regardless, because enchantments are one of the worst card types for putting a clock on the opponent. while richard's deck was an interesting take on spellslinger, in the end, it was still a creature deck swinging in for lots of damage, the "spellslinger" part really just buffs and protection for the creatures. Why would you want to watch a commander game where no one had creatures?

[@ryanhansen9779]

Bramblecrush, Beast Within, Terrastodon, Cyclonic Rift, Dreadbore, Vindicate, Ugin, Garruk Apex Predator, Hero's Downfall, Primal Command, Ulamog, Anguished Unmaking and Unblockable creatures all Say Hi to your Planeswalkers. We interact with them plenty.

[@ryanhansen9779]

"Planeswalkers are never threatened by anything so they just keep..." I'm not able to agree with you, any creature in play threatens a Planeswalker.

[@mabelscott7703]

Anímate dead his rec sage

[@aneverdayhobbiest2837]

Why not play decks based on modern tier decks?

[@HanannieOSRS]

I don't understand why Richard isn't killing Tom with his creatures from the beginning instead of wasting time killing the Planeswalkers that don't effect him... always kill Tom at every chance and the three good players team up to kill the bad creature deck!!!

[@MrBaker-qr6yi]

Tomer, why no Detention Sphere?

[@FadedMTG]

Turn rotation is still broken but doesn't show in the video???

[@ryanhansen9779]

Crop Rotation?

[@chimyjoe]

in gurakk's wake wipes plainswalkers but no one is running sorcery's

[@IvanRSaldias]

Theres a green/red counterspell

[@dagsjolin9887]

Tamiyos colors wasnt good for standard? Wasnt that standard like 50% Bant Company (Spell Queller etc)

[@k98killer]

Bant wanted to play as many CoCo targets as possible, so Tamiyo was not very good in that deck. However, she was pretty great in my superfriends deck after CoCo rotated and Looter Scooter was banned.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Dag Sjölin bant company left the next cycle though so it wasn't round for long

[@justinkp]

Yes, Tamiyo saw play in Bant Company as 1 or 2 of, sometimes with more in the board at the end of that format - but as Louise mentioned Collected Company rotated out soon after and bant was no longer a very played color combination.

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

I'm honestly a bit dissapointed that nobody was playing tribal tribal, with every single tribal card.

[@natanoj16]

SmugLookingBarrel super type not card type ^^

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

Yeah, there is a super type called tribal. Bitterblossom is a tribal enchantment, tarfire is a tribal instant. Both count towards delirium.

[@natanoj16]

You are correct. I had forgotten that Tribal was "a card type"

[@samarbrander981]

richard i would like to correct what you said at 47:00 minutes in about there being no stifle there is in fact a green stifle by the name Bond its 2 mana counters and activated ability and draws a card.

[@samarbrander981]

whoops its Bind not bond silly me

[@Anil_Chrono]

It's beautiful. I completely surprised an old school opponent when my Gitrog Monster deck suddenly stifled a Jace's Archivist activation :-)

[@MrLilKryptic]

And nobody used Uril?

[@coreysierchio4650]

Why did Jen target Elemental Tokens instead of Titania?

[@jameslawson790]

Corey Sierchio killing titania would have allowed Richard to get back sac lands and thus much more elementals

[@justinkp]

If you mean targeted with Gideon's ability to make a creature not do damage for a turn it was because the tokens had more power and thus caused more damage. But you probably mean what the other poster was replying to.

[@beneighinger8995]

Freyalise minus ability hits enchantments and artifacts

[@natanoj16]

Ben Eighinger but it is single target.

[@dragaunas]

Avoid fate green counter spell

[@HanannieOSRS]

I'm surprised Tom didn't use Gaddock Teeg to ruin the game for everyone else since he already picked creatures as his "type" instead of something interesting like artifact, sorcery, or tribal

[@danielj.waldholz9038]

I feel like each turn was waaay to long this week.

[@r.r.theninja6812]

"we like to impose restrictions" *cough cough game week chess deck with no chess theme that just wanted to win cough cough*

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

R.r. Theninja Sometimes you have to stretch to fit the theme. On her streams she usually plays against cutthroat decks that win quickly, so I think jen is getting used to the power levels.

[@Welverin]

Spooky boots!

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761]

Welverin what?

[@justinkp]

Louise Drake In one of the theme weeks Tomer was playing a skeleton or Halloween themed deck and was made fun by the other players for playing lightning greaves - Tomer kept calling them, "spooooky" and its become a meme. I do agree with your other point about stretching themes, but her chess deck was my least favorite recent deck as someone who playes a little chess . it was just about as far from chess (a difficult theme to build a deck for anyway) as you could get. That being said, i don't understand why people care so much, they have to build a lot of decks and they're not all going to be winners and this all opinion anyway. People seem to take these things very personally for some reason.

[@basicpigeonbee]

really, no one played tribal?

[@rayseone]

Got to love toms low key saltiness. Dude is a crybaby. Takes away more than he brings to the experience for me.