Mach-E Thermal System Part 2: A Detailed Comparison to the Model Y

Sandy, Ben, and Cory are back in action breaking down thermal system parts, and comparing to the Tesla Model Y.
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E E14
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Outro:
Music from KZbin Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video
#ford #modely #mache

[@MunroLive]

Thanks everyone for the great response to this video! After we published we noticed a small calculation error on the fluid weight in kg. Rather then remove the video to repair the error, we chose to pin this comment to preserve the 1100+ plus comments of dialogue. Both the Model Y weight and Mach-E weight were equally penalized with higher totals, but the relative delta remained consistent. We will have Sandy clarify in a future Mach-E video. Thanks everyone! - Munro Live Team

[@danielsusca]

This is why I love you Munro's, For your Honesty! You seen you've made an error, you take responsibility for it, then take the best decision to correct it and move on. Keep doing your best, because your best is good enough. HUGS!

[@rishi-m]

Do you folks also take into account the (I reckon, of course you do) weight of the fluids throughout the vehicle someplace? Please highlight that aspect in a video too some day, fluids seem to be one of the easier places to reduce weight. I know from the motorcycling world that the fluid weights are significant, many manufacturers there report the weight without the essential fluids!

[@m.h.9244]

Hello sandy i love your show. Can you give a comment to the poor guy who broke this connector on his tesla. They wanted to sell him a new battery pack. Thanks!

[@typxxilps]

yes and no, cause an engineer in the big companies has to use parts of the shelves and is trained to use them instead of reinventing the wheel. Yes, it would be beneficial for each of them to check how Tesla had done it before starting to work on the next iteration of the id family which will also be used by Ford for small cars and next Mustang iteration. But where would Tesla be if Ford and VW would no longer make these mistakes again and again ? Tesla is unable to deal with corporate customers at least here and a company does not care about all the great tesla cars as long they can not deliver that to the customer where the employees then will have to work to get their tesla get fixed cause Tesla does not care nor has an infrastructure to do that. That is where Ford and VW outperform Tesla , same for leasing offers and other services, at least here in central europe, not Siberia. Might be time for you to pick up and call Mr. Diess from VW to talk about the future since he now has gotten his new contract he had to fight for the last 12 to 24 months. Might be worth to jump onto his feet now before the next ID family generation development starts ...

[@tomgray971]

@@m.h.9244Only one I could find was this: teslaownersonline.com/threads/broken-charge-port-pin-left-me-dead-in-the-water.16520/ He fixed it himself. The connector has since been redesigned to prevent this issue. If you have another case, please share. Otherwise, it looks like you're spreading FUD.

[@MurrayC]

The killer was "and this is the second best we've seen!"

[@noobcaekk]

mind. blown.

[@andycanfixit]

All those future leak points down the road too. With Tesla you have 10 hoses so 20 hose connections that might leak at some point, with Ford you have 35 hoses or 70 possible leak points. Not including pumps and other components and its all stretched out over the engine bay instead of in one location.

[@oferkrupka]

10:48

[@tozzasque]

I fell out of my chair, burst in laughter

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@andycanfixit I said after part 1 "5 year timebomb"

[@imtexaspete]

Ford engineers to dealership - Don't worry we have built in a lot of maintenance down the road to keep you busy, keep plenty of hoses on hand.

[@hallkbrdz]

Problem is, they can't. JIT is a big thing for Ford dealerships, and sometimes the part you need now is on back-order for who knows how long, even for brand-new vehicles. Ford should outsource their parts inventory to Amazon.

[@frenchonion4595]

@@hallkbrdz Amazon is filled with counterfit cheap parts. It's really bad

[@daniluchison]

That's exactly what this is about. Their ecosystem. It is not about the car itself but they car manufacturers and dealerships accross the globe.

[@NotNowLater]

I can only imagine the number of hoses the dealerships would have to stock.

[@nemeanlioness]

ford owners: yay. picnic day at the dealership

[@extrememike]

Watching the Mack- e parts being laid out on the table reminds me of those info-mercials where they tell you: “but wait…there is more!”

[@stanproffitt4335]

this made me laff. Good analogy.

[@austinpowers1999]

and if you act now, we’ll throw in the kitchen sink

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Ben "first we're going to grab all the lines that the Mach E has..." Me Falls off chair laughing.

[@mikedx2706]

When Ben dumped that box full of Mach E cooling hoses on the table with a flourish, I was stunned.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@mikedx2706 Luckily, I wasn't holding my coffee....... And it GOT WORSE!!

[@rpfour4]

The real hero of this episode is the Home Depot box.

[@brettmciver432]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Yup a nightmare indeed

[@katiegreene3960]

That was a great part

[@yellowonion]

Wow. It's like they have brackets for brackets.

[@MunroLive]

They do.

[@1flash3571]

Love the response from Munro Live....LMAO!!!!

[@yellowonion]

@@MunroLive Keep up the good work! Been watching since '18 when Sandy first ripped into the Model 3. Constructive criticism is great, which leads to better things for people. In a small way, I bought the i3 and Model Y sample reports last year as a way to show support. :) Also, a random tidbit is with the Mach-E here in Vancouver, BC, Canada. Ford dealerships won't let you test drive the car.

[@Ronnaferd]

Yo Dawg I heard you like brackets...so we put brackets on your brackets!

[@Psalm-yg6yi]

Be the first to have a Ford Mach-E Lawn ornament! 😂

[@GaneshNayak]

he is giving so much content for free, then imagine the depth of his paid reports. Good video with clear numbers at the end

[@MunroLive]

That is exactly our goal! You get it. Thanks Ganesh.

[@Speedytrip]

Just by watching these videos OEMs could save years of development, they don't seem to be watching though. When they can't even match technology used in cars that have been on the road for 8+ years...it says a lot.

[@MbeyaIsHome]

@@MunroLive Even if they charge $80,000 per report, it would likely be worth it for VW to buy them. Not just one report -- buy them all !

[@markplott4820]

Ganesh - Munro offered the BMW i3 Report for only $5. and Munro sells simple reports that are affordable, and EZ to understand to the lay person.

[@anydaynow01]

Yeah, I'm happy more and more engineering channels are using SI units, when it comes to calculations and conversions they are just easier to deal with!

[@CanadianClassicCarNut]

The worst thing a Mach E owner wants to hear: "Hey, you've got a coolant leak"

[@markplott4820]

Laforge to bridge, coolant leak, I got a coolant leak in the Main reactor, and I can't stop it, 15 minutes to CORE detonation. - Jordy.

[@Error6503]

But at least they've got two independent loops so not everything gets fried at once. The two pumps required because the pathways are so long reminds me of the story that big lumbering dinosaurs had two brains because the neurons were so long. I'm sure there's a metaphor there somewhere.

[@grizzybear9111]

@@markplott4820 lol i was gonna type the same thing

[@chrisheath2637]

"You have a coolant leak - we need to take the engine out" "Engine???" "Yeah - we pop a small one in between all the hoses, just in case the electrics don't work."

[@fredpinczuk7352]

@@Error6503 Nothing to fry on a EV car if you happen to have a coolant leak. The temperature ranges that EV cars (Ford, Tesla, Porsche, Audi, ect) cooling loops are exposed to is no where near boiling point. More in the upper 80's at the most. Therefore if the systems detect a leak, they simply lower the battery discharge rates and allow you to get home. You can safely open any EV coolant circuit and you aren't ever going to get boiling coolant sprayed in the face.

[@Arpin_Lusene]

Thank you for showing side by side comparison. Numbers are great, but showing things physically side by side really put things into perspective a lot more easily.

[@MunroLive]

Great point!

[@kirkjohnson9353]

It's like putting current wife - Tesla next to the ex-wife -- Mach E

[@wmlye1]

I particularly enjoyed the motor videos because you almost always have two or three different ones for comparison. It'll be really interesting when you get a 4680 Tesla battery pack and can put it side-by-side with one of the older ones.

[@terrysullivan1992]

35 hoses = 70 connections. 70 places for a leak and in a previous video Sandy and crew showed how difficult it is to get to many of those hoses and connections. Wow, a repair nightmare down the road for Mach E owners. Better buy the extended warranty.

[@refplusten]

I can see whole powertrain and suspension removals to fix/find leaks. Wow, what a nightmare. I sure wouldn't want to be owning a Mach-E for very long as I'm sure the stealerships are ready to HOSE customers for the ongoing maintenance costs (maybe purposely engineered like that?)

[@darreno1450]

It's like the Ford engineers forgot about the cooling system after the rest of the car was built, and had to quickly cobble together something that looks like a home hobby job.

[@bdgrandin]

In my experience as a tier 1 or 2 with the OEM'S YES line routing etc is not considered early enough in the process. Not just lines. The functional areas of the vehicles are sent to different design departments for design and integration. And some have more say or power in decision making. So if a cooling system eng says hey we need to change something to be better it may be considered too late, the more powerful team won’t change or maybe won't be allow to change due to launch issues. Why OEM's are so focused on meeting launch vs making a better product is a fault in the system.

[@matthewprather7386]

This!

[@wizlike1398]

This was merciless!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Cruel ............ But Fair!"

[@johnbuchman4854]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Quick and merciful--it is the Gorn way...

[@39401JLB]

Mercy is not the point; finding & fixing problems is the point. Munro & co know their stuff, and the critiques are on-point. If Ford can cut their parts count on that coolant system in half, they will save a bundle in costs -- and their product will be much better.

[@MsAjax409]

The potential dealership revenue from repairing leaks and replacing hoses on the Mach E will be significant.

[@fixandtests]

imagine it as used car out of warranty....

[@rogerstarkey5390]

$2.50 for the part. $350 labor. (Nothing new there then)

[@stevebakker6884]

Probably the hardest hitting video in the entire series, going back to the first Model 3 teardown in 2018.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

More brackets than a Bad Obsession Motorsport build!

[@markplott4820]

FUD motors uses bracket to hold up brackets........LOL.

[@charlesrovira5707]

I was about to say. 😉 But *Bad Obsession Motorsports* actually has better design skills and tighter tolerances. Even *Project Binky* was put together better. The *Mach-E* is an absolute mess of redundant and superfluous parts meandering all over the place. This couldn't get past a software design phase review, never mind approval for implementation.

[@anydaynow01]

Oh man I was thinking the same thing, except if they're watching this they're sicking up in their shed at the poor execution. Binky is a marvel of CAD engineering the Mach-E is engineering by parts bin committee!

[@davidelliott5843]

@@anydaynow01 Cardboard Aided Design. The best CAD by far.

[@sayanchx]

Nice to see you here @mikeselectricstuff - it would be awesome to see a collaboration video with Sandy Munro and you !! Anyway, hope to see some new tear-down videos from you Mike as well !

[@demultiplexdfunc177]

That is polite aspersions if I ever seen it done. Had to giggle at the hose dump.

[@anydaynow01]

I'm surprised they didn't dump them out of a rubbish bin or bag for true effect!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

And just...... "The Dump"

[@DrKnowitallKnows]

As always, I'm blown away by the engineering that Tesla does. The Mach-E looks like a spaghetti monster by comparison!

[@wilber8260]

AND the Ford dealers are very happy! Tons of stuff to break down and require a service visit!

[@HVM_fi]

@@wilber8260 Last time I checked dealers refuse to take Mach-Ees in, coz trying to update the firmware will brick them...

[@nonyanks2510]

Yep, mindless needless complexity....shows a company stuck in the 70's.

[@MichaelGreenLagos]

That what I thought

[@cbchris6985]

@@HVM_fi Any more info you could share about this?

[@bdtang]

Explains some of the “production hell” when Tesla was rolling out the model 3 - experience pain in the beginning but see the fruits of their labor and effort in efficiency and improved reliability - no pain no gain - Ford went for speed to production - less pain- and tweaks to existing convention.

[@joenye43]

I just can't compliment you enough What a revelation of design

[@pablopicaro7649]

Another great analysis and discovery

[@ken-mb5cp]

The plaid teardown will be epic.

[@MunroLive]

Coming soon!

[@mikedx2706]

@@MunroLive When are you going to compare the Tesla Plaid to the Porsche Taycan? That will be epic.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@mikedx2706 You notice that this time there's been no "Ah, but!" comments from Porsche or their "enthusiasts"? Not one.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Ken 1 Preceded by "Must we?" "Do we HAVE TO?" "Can we delay for a week or two??"

[@ken-mb5cp]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Ford: Tbe best hose is more hoses.

[@broli123]

The Mach-E thermal system team at Ford must be having emergency meetings after watching this video.

[@moki123g]

It's a little late for that.

[@niking92]

I can assure you they don't. They don't watch KZbin...

[@rogerstarkey5390]

That's the problem. "TEAM" I get the impression the Ford system was designed by committee, with members in different buildings. The Tesla? Two (talented) designers 10 feet apart.

[@kmg501]

We're number two!

[@markplott4820]

Ford thermal teams don't communicate with one another.

[@OnigoroshiZero]

Sandy after they finish with the Mach-E: "Guys, the reports for Tesla Model 3 and Y are here, you don't need anything else unless you want to study ancient history." ps: Steven from Solving the Money Problem is going to have a field day with this one and I'll be waiting for that.

[@nilesh69420]

I always enjoy teardowns from Munro even though I am a Software Engineer.

[@houdini8172]

I am sure there is a software equivalent to this hose debacle.

[@610Alpha]

@@houdini8172 it's called spaghetti code...lol

[@GregRobsonUK]

Also a software dev, there’s definitely lessons in simple understandable processes in these videos.

[@nilesh69420]

@@610Alpha lol yes😂

[@MarkXHolland]

@@houdini8172 Software equivalent: take the hoses off and put them back on again.

[@donjones4719]

OK, my one genie wish is to have Sandy do a teardown comparison of the SpaceX Dragon and Boeing Starliner capsules. Even from what we know already there's a vast difference between SpaceX's approach and the legacy aerospace company's use what we know approach along with compartmented engineers.

[@StevenBanks123]

That would be a dream come true.

[@actionjksn]

That would never be allowed there are too many secrets with that technology.

[@smere911]

I've never cared about cars in this regard but, my God this is an eye opener. Love Love love this presentation. Certainly an eye opener for me. Thanks for all you do Sandy, Ben, Cory, and the TEAM.

[@paullester2535]

Just the visual of the compact assembly then pan to a table full of stuff make the point here!

[@39401JLB]

It is a little exaggerated for effect -- once assembled, it will take up less space. The underlying point is well made, though -- reduce the part count, especially the number of fasteners, and make the whole thing simpler for the operators to build. You end up with a less costly build, with fewer potential failure points.

[@paullester2535]

@@39401JLB yep - love the theater though!

[@cbromley562]

The Ford table looks like the contents of our shed…no one dares enter it. This is something the average auto review doesn’t talk about…stylistic/marketing features yes, the engineering bit, no. The three of you make a great presentation team, by the way.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"There be BEASTIES in there!!"

[@paulstubbs7678]

Maybe they (Ford) are trying to scare off third party repairers. They are kind of scaring me.

[@RaglansElectricBaboon]

It's like mine too but to be fair my shed does have the parts from two stripped Model S and also some Leaf bits in it :)

[@cbromley562]

@@RaglansElectricBaboon Nice!

[@dantebarnes8187]

Good presentation to the Three Amigos.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks!

[@ferdiemazon3627]

Bob Lutz: "The OEM's are going to blow them out of the water because of their 100 years of know how." I'm paraphrasing of course, but he did same something to that effect.

[@tongsli]

Where is the putz? Haven''t heard him spout off too much lately. Notice that?

[@terrysullivan1992]

Yes he did say that on many occasions. The Bill Maher show for one. What hubris and stupidity.

[@enoughofthis]

Big boys are coming!

[@hagestad]

and they did. Porsche taycan is much better car - for a much more money. has even better heat pump system and is nicer to drive.

[@raddaks2039]

@hagestad you do realize that the taycan is worse than the mach e, right? Sandy says this indirectly in this video. Troll elsewhere, please.

[@pierreblattner4527]

This is just incredible. I am not an engineer but this easy to understand. Thank you.

[@PilotEJ401]

No that's an impactful presentation!! Even my brother, a lifelong thermodynamic engineer, just subscribed...great job guys

[@MunroLive]

Thank you very much!

[@benjaminheindl1069]

Telsa HVAC team is brilliant 🔥🔥

[@TheJoeSwanon]

And they manage to squeeze a heat pump in there

[@epoxy1710]

Yeee they make ground connectors that brakes of after 2 years in salt

[@kirkjohnson9353]

Ironically , the Ford guys probably brag in the break room - "Those simpletons at Tesla could NEVER figure out our hose nest"

[@DanielBlaney]

The Tesla HVAC system also has a really high failure rate and is not serviceable at all. If something goes wrong the whole thing has to be replaced.

[@stevebakker6884]

@@DanielBlaney True enough. At least at one point. It's all still a work in progress, for all automakers. I marvel at the brilliance of Tesla engineering (no word less than brilliant fits), although due to the quantity over quality philosophy of Elon I'm not sure if I'll ever buy a Tesla.

[@royatkin161]

How are you not a million subscribers , awesome

[@MunroLive]

Tell your friends!

[@chrishaberbosch1029]

I told my engineer friend and he is trying not to hear any of this.

[@kirkjohnson9353]

Channels frequently take time to build and then seem to explode overnight- I could see that happening here.

[@MarkXHolland]

They'll get there.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@MunroLive Prediction. Plaid teardown + 6 weeks = ~1 million

[@eddiegardner8232]

35 rubber hoses filled with coolant. 70 clamps with the potential to leak. Almost unbelievable.

[@martinbeaudoin666]

Don't forget that they have dealers to please, they need to something to break and charge $$$

[@ivantierney6737]

Don’t forget the 4 pumps at $600 or more

[@ymcpa73]

@@martinbeaudoin666 Question is why they need to please the dealers. What are they going to do? If they drop their agreement with Ford, they would do Ford a favor in the long run. Ford would be able to sell direct to the customers like Tesla. As long as they have a dealer network, they can't do that. Ford does benefit from the maintenance because they can sell parts to the dealers and other mechanics.

[@higfny]

I don't really get this. From a production viewpoint , sure, there is cost involved. But as a consumer I'm not that worried. I have a fairly largeish boat. Got way more hoses and clamps than that. 14 of them connected to through wholes that could sink the boat if they fail. Inspected once every year and changed every ten. I sleep soundly. As long as ford uses quality parts this is more of a problem for Ford (and sandy does well to point that out) than the consumer. That said, if I was a ford executive I wold get Sandy to simplify this.

[@andyfreeze4072]

@@higfny you assume its a simple issue of quality parts. Ford and GM have a history of crappy parts. Doesnt bode well.

[@lenimbery7038]

these tear downs certainly influenced my decision to buy a Model Y!

[@moki123g]

@@justlookin59 Looks like you will be waiting for eternity. The model s came out in '12 . It's been a decade the others still aren't close.

[@travvvvvv825]

@@moki123g right, tesla has been absolutely leap frogged by Ford. Tesla was only profitable from selling carbon credits and now that the federal incentive is gone, they are a bubble waiting to collapse

[@Chainyanker007]

Anyone seeing this video would be nuts to buy a Mach-E. I wouldn't touch one with a 10' pole.

[@YavorDimitroff]

I appreciate the use of metric system units! Thanks! Awesome comparison!

[@MunroLive]

No problem!

[@dirkkruisheer]

Same here!

[@bernhardleopold6702]

Yeah, metric for the win (although you have to add THREE zeros when converting from kilograms to grams ;-)

[@platniumdr]

Excellent comparison, thanks for your expertise. Also, received my bumpersticker for the Plaid fundraiser, looks great!

[@MunroLive]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@mdf1978]

@@MunroLive are you going to address the sound insulation/NVH performance of the Model 3 & Y. I have a model 3 and love it, because of its handling, speed and looks (yes I like the looks of the Model 3!). However what I do not like is the noise in the cabin when we’re on the highway. Especially when there are more people in the car. In that aspect, the Mach E and especially iD4 perform better, don’t they.

[@TheJoeSwanon]

I’m surprised Elon just does not donate one to you at this point. I’m sure even he wouldn’t want to hear your opinion

[@platniumdr]

@@mdf1978 I believe the model 3s made after October of 2020 have double paned glass to help with sound insulation. I got my 3 a couple months before that and missed that change sadly, though the cabin noise seems fine on all but the worst roads.

[@MarkXHolland]

@@mdf1978 The one thing about the Model 3 that isn't a level of magnitude better than any other car is the suspension, imho. Particularly here in the UK where some of our roads are shockingly bad.

[@rickkay9548]

The competition is coming - in their pants when seeing what tesla is doing. Ford seemingly does this to keep dealerships well-stocked and well-employed

[@danielstapler4315]

They are REAL car makers and they KNOW how to make cars - Jim Chanos

[@rickkay9548]

@@danielstapler4315 haha I see what you did there

[@zipeprcot]

This is a perfect example of the difference between a legacy ICE OEM that is converting to BEV, versus a new BEV OEM that is working from first principles and a clear slate. It is really amazing.

[@derbigpr500]

Yes, it is, because the legacy OEM who knows how to build cars built a car with a cooling system that is actually working, as it's supposed to, because overheating hasn't been an issue for ICE cars for decades. Tesla on the other hand built a cheap and simple cooling system that fails to keep the car in working order for more than 10 minutes of spirited driving on a hot day. I'll take the legacy OEM product any day, thanks.

[@hamsteronspeed]

@@derbigpr500 Oh you mean working like this? insideevs.com/news/520468/ford-mustang-mache-overheating-regen/ Yes yes. Now where are the cases in which Tesla's cooling system aren't working?

[@zipeprcot]

@@derbigpr500 "...legacy OEM who knows how to build cars built a car with a cooling system that is actually working." You sure about that? Why are Mach-E's overheating and dying on steep hills in Norway? Must be Ford's over-engineered thermal management system.

[@thomasm964]

Would love to hear Cory talk more in future episodes!

[@rmkilc]

No thanks. He's got a Tesla fetish worse than Sandy.

[@MunroLive]

True, but backed by data.

[@Speedytrip]

@Munro Live 10 out of 10 for that reply :)

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@rmkilc It's called "integrity"

[@rmkilc]

@@rogerstarkey5390 No need to come off as a Tesla shill though. Although most viewers probably enjoy that.

[@Subie-Driver]

The quote by Scottie from Star Trek comes to mind here: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. This sure looks like that to me. Yikes!

[@fred993a]

Sandy - You and your Team's engineering skills really are, making the world a better place to live.

[@thdjjfsfh]

"In this case, 1 kg", LOL. Sandy threw a killer strike without even realizing it.

[@martingardens]

Fascinating video, guys. While I don't own an EV, currently, I feel confident in my Tesla stock purchase. There is no Tesla killer on the horizon. The number of hoses alone on the Mach-E was shocking. A Medusa nightmare.

[@kirkjohnson9353]

There IS a Tesla killer on the horizon. Sandy himself is working on it and it never gets mentioned... it's still a bit too soon. But when it happens, the world will not be the same.

[@39401JLB]

There will never be a 'Tesla Killer'. Tesla is here to stay; other good BEVs might come to market -- but that is something to be celebrated.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@kirkjohnson9353 Don't say it has 3 wheels.

[@Succumbed2Rum]

Wow, this is striking. Never mind the software (OTA), power train efficiency, BMS, and battery chemistry advantages Tesla holds as well. The industry needs to step up or a major rout is coming.

[@terrysullivan1992]

A major rout has been occurring for a few years. But until recently it appeared small and moving slowly. That is what 'exponential' looks like.

[@peterzerfass4609]

And people think Tesla stock is overrated and others are 'catching up'. Fools, the lot of 'em.

[@mikedx2706]

@@peterzerfass4609 I think this video shows the difference between a company where the leader is an engineer and values good engineering like Musk at Tesla and the legacy automakers where the leader is a business school type who only values the company’s share price.

[@douglasburnside]

No need to worry -- _The Competition Is Coming._ Haven't you been paying attention to the analysts? 😀

[@aaronwilliams1249]

@@peterzerfass4609 I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I've heard countless calls to sell TSLA because of insert Tesla killer here. My modest investment over 8 years ago has grown insanely. Tesla's margins are also insane and this video demonstrates why.

[@Mojo16011973]

At battery day Elon said their goal was to become the best manufacturing company in the world. This was my biggest takeaway from "battery day" . I doubled my holdings afterwards.

[@stephenj4937]

What they are currently is one of the best automotive design companies. The rest of the manufacturing process still leaves a lot to be desired.

[@kmf2153]

I think that I would rather have a slightly misaligned door or trunk than the mess on the ford table.....just saying....

[@broli123]

This is a very good example of the good old "too many chefs in the kitchen" phrase. Too much reliance on off the shelf components, too much old school thinking "just slap it on there" without much regard to weight and function. Hopefully this is a wakeup call to the car industry, that the golden era of wasteful and afterthought design is dead.

[@pierre.a.larsen]

This is also what happens when you stop letting the engineers run the company.

[@lenchristensen6835]

Man I love this channel, it makes me sad every time I hear Sandy talking about retirement.

[@MarkXHolland]

Yeah, let's make the old bugger work until he drops!

[@jagjitnagra3758]

Thank you Sandy and Team.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching!

[@conorlieu4635]

Who actually disliked this video?? Sooo well presented

[@martingardens]

Ford engineers.

[@mikedx2706]

@@martingardens You forgot to mention Gates and Dayco.

[@markplott4820]

the 2 Dislikes were from PHIL LaBeau and Gordon Johnson.........lol.

[@altonriggs2352]

Three Ford vice presidents of hoses.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

There's a "Ford Fanboy" infiltration. They're quite hilarious. (Also at least one Porch FB, a few "not Tesla, Ev's ok", and some "ICE for the win" luddites)

[@jamesfahy2935]

Hilarious when the box of Mach E hoses was emptied on the table.

[@TomaOvidiu]

"Competition" is free advertising for Tesla .....

[@mclason6338]

In the long term, most certainly.

[@thetagmarket1058]

I have an armchair interest in engineering... but after watching this, I wish I had studied thermdynamics. First class television and compelling viewing for everyone.

[@Kuth70]

WOW! Mind blowing to see Tesla's HVAC next to Ford's. The engineering on Telsa's side is just stunning.

[@39401JLB]

Tesla has had to work very hard on manufacturability; they have to squeeze out costs everywhere they can -- doubly so, since simpler assembly is required if you are trying to speed up the assembly line. The result is plain to see -- they have a pretty elegant, simple, inexpensive system. Ford can get there; it is just a matter of putting in the engineering time. The Mach E is a pretty early generation BEV for Ford, so expect much better things in just a couple years. (*crosses fingers*) they will get there faster if they buy the reports.

[@rolandvazquez6191]

@@39401JLB they will go bankrupt before that, like this month,August.😄goodluck with your dumbass essay you wrote for no reason. Sorry bro

[@GrandmasterFU666]

Ford Mustang owners have heat during extreme cold, however some Tesla owners been complaining since 2001 that there is not enough heat to keep windows defrosted. Fast-forward to 2022 more Tesla owners complaining and Tesla's over the air updates have caused more vehicles to have issues.

[@Kuth70]

@@GrandmasterFU666 My post was 5 months ago. Tesla is currently having issues with an expansion valve getting stuck open in extreme cold. They made a mistake and yes they should (and will) fix it. I'm pretty sure the software fix alone won't solve the issue however. Probably a mix of this recent software update and a physical replacement of the valve in question. To your point about not enough heat in Tesla's since 2001, I can't speak for early Tesla's, just my 2018 Model 3 that has plenty of heat. But mine has the resistive heating element and not this new heat pump. To your final point about updates in general causing "more vehicles (Teslas) to have issues". That's a very general statement and perhaps difficult to rebut by design. I can only speak to my own experience with my 2018 Model 3. The software updates have generally been very positive for me. Introducing many new fun and useful features over the last couple years. Unlike cars of old, who's features never change, mine has gotten better and better over time. I love it. I'm happy to see companies like Ford finally embracing this new paradigm and follow Tesla's lead. There have been some down sides (such as questionable placement of some UI elements), but on the whole I've been excited at every update.

[@Chainyanker007]

@@39401JLB - There are some parallels in software, easy to write tons of code to do something but much harder to do the same thing in way less lines of elegant code. I'd say Tesla has lots of elegant code but probably not the competition, esp VW.

[@bluetoad2668]

The crazy thing is that this doesn't actually have a hell of a lot to do with the cars being EVs. This this just Tesla designing a better cooling/heating system - ICE makers have been doing this for years! Tesla not only beats them at the EV power train but at this too?

[@brianevolved2849]

they have been milking services for one hundred years

[@rrolf71]

That just shows the Emperor is actually naked. My specialization is elsewhere, but I am an old engineer and this shows serious lack of integration in the industry and lack of creativity. I always thought that an engineer's job is to innovate and keep thinking all the time. Mach-E: "Okay, we need a pump, and we need a valve, so we will also need brackets to fix them to the chassis, and a pipe to connect the two components." Tesla: "Okay, we need a pump, and we need a valve, so how can we put both in the car with as few extra parts as possible?" It's almost as if the decision makers at Ford assumed that the Mach-E won't sell in any significant numbers, so it won't pay to retool for better integrated components

[@miken4591]

The problem is that legacy builders buy nearly all parts from suppliers, because these are cheaper. This means that the parts don’t integrate. Tesla designs and builds complete units. For legacy firms to go back to building parts themselves is like starting a car firm from scratch. No Legacy experience advantage.

[@RCallahan592]

@@rrolf71 “won’t pay to retool” not enough people have hit on this. There are so many decisions that go into bringing a product to market. I think a lot of the contracting/supplier paradigm hurts legacy auto manufacturers for sure. There are plenty of advantages inherent to Tesla’s vertical integration of engineering. That said, just because a company like Ford designed a less efficient cooling system doesn’t mean they are stupid. They may have just chosen not to spend the money in certain areas at this time. Could they have spent more money developing the cooling system and gotten a better result? Probably. Did they need to at this time? Hard to answer, but I don’t think it’s going to make or break the vehicle.

[@Sank1982]

Tesla do great things same they can’t get their body panels to line up 🤷‍♂️ Both companies do good and bad things.

[@UTUBESUCK666]

The production quality is amzing. Camera, sound, script, pacing, delivery, information; everything is top notch. 👌👍😍

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Hi dev HORROR MOVIE!! 😁

[@WoodlawnSound]

I hate to be a Tesla Fan Boy, but Wow :)

[@dieseljo2]

The Ford table takes me back in time when we worked on all the insane pollution control components loaded on the big three cars in the 1980’s. This looks like history is repeating it's self. Remember those air pumps, vacuum systems and hoses...

[@radimbosticka]

Guys out of genuine curiosity. Does youtube pay back enough to cover your cost or is this just good marketing to get additional customers? This content is outstanding and we are grateful you are making it.

[@jetah50]

I would say the ad revenue is enough from the videos. but i do agree it's a presentation in what they can do so their product (teardown manuals) look valuable.

[@drosophilamelanogaster3957]

Probably not but this is a business advertising.

[@joedouglas5243]

@@jetah50 Goodness me, I bet they'd be happy if their KZbin ad revenue was enough for Hawaiian pizza and Canadian Club for the gang each upload.

[@izybit]

$3/1000 views is a good guess for KZbin. These videos don't really cover the cost of a new car but if they get one additional customer to buy their reports they have made profit.

[@jcollins1305]

Sandy said he “can’t buy bubblegum” with KZbin. I imagine he makes his money on consulting, and this is just a very good as for his services.

[@mikemorgan4432]

Old guy here, I recall my dad's 79 Lincoln, so many hoses! Then, my 91 Chevy truck, much better, very few hoses. I really dislike hoses, I will say it....that Ford Mach-E is truly a nightmare!

[@teevee5233]

Thanks for teaching us how to engineer. We can all learn and apply this to our work.

[@markplott4820]

Sometimes the best part, is no part at all. - ELON.

[@MsAjax409]

Someone once said that a product's architecture will mirror the organizational structure of the company that produced it. To restructure Ford, or any of the legacy automakers, so they can effectively compete with Tesla is not only be a formidable task, but will be resisted tooth and nail by every division vice president and department manager.

[@positiveoutlook17]

You're right. I'm sure Ford has excellent engineers with plenty of resources... plenty of everything except management vision and direction.

[@ericogden4589]

Elon says this

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@ericogden4589 Sandy says this! Paraphrased "until retires, or dies, nothing changes"

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@positiveoutlook17 Ford has "engineers" working a system. Tesla has "creators"

[@Chainyanker007]

@@positiveoutlook17 - The real good ones left for Tesla or SpaceX awhile back.

[@enoughofthis]

Congrats Tesla engineers.

[@derbigpr500]

Yes, congrats for building cars that overheat and go into safe mode after you drive them hard for 10 minutes.

[@dothehelenkellerlips]

@@derbigpr500 Yeah MachE is definitely having overheating issues. Which is surprising with all the hoses and coolant. insideevs.com/news/520468/ford-mustang-mache-overheating-regen/

[@derbigpr500]

@@dothehelenkellerlips Those are breakdowns and issues with the software. There's a difference between a cooling system breaking down and causing overheating, and a cooling system that is badly designed and built and CANNOT do the job properly even when it's functioning perfectly.

[@STR8Top]

@@derbigpr500 homeboy, stop crying; go wash the cars at your ford dealership and let the engineers talk

[@relansis6962]

@@derbigpr500 Oh the world is ending 😂😭😆

[@teslascoop2177]

BEST VIDEO EVER!

[@YARDSTYLERECORDS]

MIND BLOWN!!! JUST WOW. I mean guys this stuff is night and day. The stuff Tesla is doing now....at this point just isn't fair. Excelent job MUNRO TEAM. And like others have said in the comments you 3 have something going here. Keep it up.

[@Pseudoku_RL]

When simply identifying the parts used in the system becomes an embarrassing roast, you've got a SERIOUS problem

[@simoc24]

And Tesla already have a newer design of cooling in the model S plaid…that one was 2019

[@chstra45]

Subtle form factor changes for packaging, but mostly same system.

[@bob15479]

1000:2 like/dislike ratio. Speaks volumes.

[@ferdiemazon3627]

The two downvotes are from Ford Engineers who are sponsored by Gates.

[@mikedx2706]

Do you think Ford owns Gates Rubber? Maybe the Ford engineers own a lot of Gates stock!

[@douglasburnside]

Since a recent update to the KZbin UI, I can only see the "Likes", the "Dislikes" number is not shown. How can I see both numbers?

[@hughonabike]

Holy moly!!!

[@markplott4820]

Holy rubber Hoses Batman.......lol

[@chrisstearns10]

A great display of why other automotive companies are in a very distant second👍👍

[@hagestad]

what? tesla is making electric cars 100 years after porsche done it. Also porsche has way better heatpump system.

[@derbigpr500]

You sure of that? Tesla is lagging far behind many big car companies in many aspects. Tesla makes mediocre products at best, only their delusional fanboys can't see it, because most of you know nothing about cars. Tesla is a joke in terms of engineering compared to what Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, etc. are doing. Not to mention many of the more advanced boutique brands. Tesla's are like bread toasters of the automotive world.

[@40watt_club]

Ty ... I am learning so much new things every episode

[@andyonions7864]

Ford engineers must love rubber.

[@rj8u]

Ford's engineers probably hiding in the Ford Lightning Frunk right now 😄.

[@markplott4820]

FUD motors engineers are addicted to Hoses.

[@MonsterSound]

Tesla says they have more features and mileage, but Ford says "Yes, but we have more hoses and brackets!"

[@yatinkheti2427]

Thank you Mr. Munro for this side by side comparison. I appreciate your hard work and thoroughness.

[@Ruudi05]

Thank you Sandy for taking your colleagues in the video! It really shows more your company competence. Also I thank your team for making such a short and informative video about really complicated systems. Some channels here on youtube might do the same in 10 hour video.

[@JohnPMiller]

If someone had told Sandy 20 years ago that one day he'd have an employee who was a "Thumbnail Artist", he would have thought they were crazy! By the way, the thumbnails are great!

[@lengould9262]

The unstated "and then there's" is the assembly line. The Tesla system appears like it can be almost entirely preassembled into a package on a separate specialty line, then brought in and integrated at one or two stations. I can't even imagine the number of supply streams to the main assembly line, stations, workers, training and opportunity for error the Mach-e system presents. To say nothing of the wasted battery pumping all that fluid around constantly. Ouch!!

[@jasonwidegren]

Super episode. Very informative to see the direct comparison. Thanks!

[@tonygreen8221]

Wow. I think that’s your best show yet. Fascinating comparison. Thanks.

[@Urgelt]

I knew when Sandy pretended to faint, it would be bad. It's bad.

[@markplott4820]

When Ford crosses a Mustang with a ESCORT, you know it's going to be bad.

[@jdog8701]

@@markplott4820 you must not watch all of his videos hes actually been pretty positive on the mach e overall

[@markplott4820]

@@jdog8701 - actually I am subscriber. and while Sandy likes the Mexican Mustang, I find it to be INCORRECT for the market, it's NOT a Mustang, but Muck-e is a 🐎 & buggy car. they can't even build a 2018 model 3 in 2021. and the Mach-e is killing Mustang sales already.

[@jdog8701]

@@markplott4820 the mustang name is marketing get over it, and most people prefer the mach e (outside) look over the model y's bulbous look The sales thing idk yet its hard to judge numbers with the chip shortage causing so many delays on new cars

[@ymcpa73]

@@jdog8701 Even without the chip shortage, Ford was only planning to make 50k per year. Their main issue is sourcing enough batteries.

[@Anthony1337]

Some of the best content on KZbin. Love it!

[@tobybeat]

The comparison videos are the best, it really helps consumers see that a product is more than its exterior.

[@yrj77]

Another great episode. This was extraordinarily helpful in understanding some of the differences in the engineering of Tesla compared to other builders. The importance of even the small things that add to weight cannot be overstated.

[@charleshaggard4341]

Keep these coming...I think this is what the ice guys do to try and catch up.....this info is worth millions....

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"The best hose is no hose"

[@martingardens]

Ford's hosed. ; - )

[@slartybartfarst9737]

Mr Munro and team never have I seen such exceptional bench marking 13 minutes to communicate what true good lean design looks like, feels like and means in the real world to the potential broad audience now watching Munro Live. Well done guys, you know I think you stand half a chance of providing proof positive that its Tesla's engineering finesse that is going to win out every time and maybe Wall Street will get what we all get thanks to you guys.ITS THE ENGINEERING.......well live in hope!

[@coolmusicfoundhere]

Not saying this is in relation to my last comment, but really appreciate the close ups. So much easier to understand what they're talking about. Thank you!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

It just struck me. Tesla (maybe ) "hired" SpaceX. Ford hired a Plumber.

[@tRav285]

There is almost 30 pounds more coolant in the mach-e not to mention all the added weight of the hose that must exist to contain that fluid. incredible.

[@LuisAlfonsoGarciaSegundo]

One of your best Munro Live videos!!! and I have seen them all

[@MunroLive]

Thank you!!

[@paulwinter9672]

Thanks guys, a picture is worth a thousand words & you certainly have the picture & the concise to the point explanations. Thank you very much. 🙂

[@johnpatman4989]

The three of you are f*cking legends. Thanks a lot.

[@giliwsapiandante8454]

Excellent thank you

[@venomwhite2618]

Those guys did a good job. I barely know anything about cars or manufacturing but I still enjoy watching these videos, especially when the people talking seem to know what they are doing.

[@FergJoe]

Thanks for posting these videos! You’re informing both consumers and industry - to everyone’s benefit (except Mach-E parts sales).

[@FrenchingAround]

Haha i like how you guys are trying to keep a straight face with the comparison 😄

[@loopie007]

Imagine the cars we would have today if Munro started doing this 20 years ago. I would suspect Ford and VW are not happy seeing this.

[@mjcamp01]

He did this 20 years ago, it just wasn't on KZbin for the world to see, and the OEMs weren't (still are not) listening

[@Chainyanker007]

They won't see it, easier to stick head in sand.

[@teddylikes1887]

simplicity is the ultimate form of sophistication

[@AM_SDG]

Sandy and team, amazing presentation. great comparison and love the statement “elegance of design”. I wish every engineer at every automobile manufacturer watch your videos.