My Brand-New Take On Four-Chord Loops

[@12tone]

The first 1000 people who click the link will get 2 free months of Skillshare Premium: skl.sh/12tone26 Some additional thoughts/corrections: 1) One thing I should be very clear about is that I'm not claiming no one has ever described a system like this before. I looked, and couldn't find anything significantly similar, but the fact that none of the search terms I tried on Google Scholar or MTO happened to work doesn't mean nothing exists. The model, as described, is my own work (except for the parts attributed to Tagg which are, obviously, Tagg's work.) but I know better than to claim I was definitely the first person to come up with it. 2) Is this model useful? I didn't really get into that much in the video 'cause honestly I don't think that's up to me. I find it helpful in conceptualizing loops, and I've used it multiple times in my analyses, but I don't want to claim I've found something revolutionary or anything. Models are only as useful as their uses, so while I certainly hope I'm not the only person this approach works for, all I can really do is put it out there and see if it means anything to anyone else. 3) I should note that my reduction of Sir Duke differs slightly from Hein's: He has the third chord as C#mi7, whereas I'm hearing it as E. As I mentioned at the end, both these chords exist, but in order to read this as a four-chord loop, we have to treat one of them as auxiliary. Hein wants to emphasize the II-V turnaround in order to draw attention to how the Fmi doesn't fit, so he chooses to combine E and C#mi into C#mi7. I, on the other hand, want to focus on how the Fmi glides down by step to the E, which means folding the C#mi into the F# chord instead. Honestly I probably would've used a different example if I could, but for narrative purposes it felt important to use the same one Hein did to emphasize how my approach differs from his. 4) Overall, in my experience, most loops are either Pistons, Cascades, or sometimes Connectors, although that's probably biased by the prevalence of a couple very popular loops that follow that pattern. Still, even outside those obvious examples, they seem to be the most common. I haven't done a thorough corpus analysis, though, so I could be wrong. 5) If you have any more questions, I started a twitter thread to explore some of the corner cases and deeper implications, so take a look at that and if I didn't answer your thing, ask me there so I can add it! twitter.com/12tonevideos/status/1276687918883409922

[@stochasticstoic4810]

Have you given much thought to the implications on (especially rock and folk) music loops coming from sheer practical laziness? Many of your examples of rock music not fitting into traditional music theory structures seem like they can be just as easily explained by someone with little experience (either theoretical or with disciplined practice) banging away on a guitar, moving the few left hand shapes they can consistently perform accurately up and down the neck. Punk-rock anti-theory, anti-virtuosity having an effect on the popular soundscape, if you will. Love the analyses!

[@gwalla]

​@@stochasticstoic4810 Because the point of analysis isn''t to figure out what went on in the musician's head when they were making the decisions they did, it's to figure out why the decisions they made work. So "maybe they were just farting around with familiar chord shapes" doesn't explain anything, at least anything that would be useful to anyone else. Sure, in many cases they were just jamming and stumbled on something they liked without working out all of the voice leading or even necessarily having much conscious knowledge of theory, but you're still left trying to explain why the progression they hit on worked as opposed to all of the other random sequences. Answering "Why do the chords in this song work so well" with "Because they happened to play those chords" doesn't even qualify as circular reasoning. It's just a non sequitur.

[@charlesfloyd3747]

Where do we request songs to analyze? “Whenever You Need Somebody” by Rick Astley has some very interesting chord and key changes that would be fascinating to break down

[@MaggaraMarine]

@@stochasticstoic4810 But rock music has patterns in it. Those patterns are different than in classical or jazz music, but they are still there, and they exist regardless of whether the musician is consciously thinking about them. People pick up a lot of stuff by ear, so they just heard how other people used specific chords and that (probably subconsciously) inspired them to write something that uses similar patterns. Just because the musician wasn't consciously thinking about something doesn't mean their song shouldn't be analyzed.

[@Super90Spartan]

i thought this was a super cool new tool to try out, so i applied it and also combined it with some other theory concepts and came up with a pretty sweet song. i would say this model applied as a technique works pretty well, especially as tool to begin understanding loops under their own theoretical behavior. there's also some room for expansion i think, because there might be other (perhaps more conceptual) ways to "set up" chords other than stepwise or dominant motion.

[@StuckCentrist]

The 'medial' chord is really the heart of it. On an emotional-instinctual level (which you should never lose touch with!), modern chord progressions are about narrative arc rather than harmonic interest perse. That is, the transition from 1st chord to 2nd determines a mood, from 2nd to 3rd tells the story of how the subject responds to that mood, the emotional narrative progression, and the 3rd to 4th brings it home either as an inescapable circle (pessimistic) or to prepare for a re-evaluation of the original mood (optimistic). Therefore the 'medial' 3rd chord is actually more powerful is determining the mood of the loop as a whole. I find an Am, F, C, G to be more empowering than a C, G, Am, F for precisely this reason. In the first iteration, a note of sadness is overcome with energy and resolve, whereas in the second an attempt at optimism descends into sadness.

[@spencer.eccles]

I played both your progressions on the piano and they both gave me that contemplative pop song vibe. I was surprised at how similar they sounded considering they're different modes

[@StuckCentrist]

@@spencer.eccles Interesting! Adam Neely did a video on it, suggesting the four chord worked as a perpetual mod rather than something with a beginning and end, so I guess that would make sense. I associate the Am start more with rock and the C start more with pop, but maybe that's just me.

[@kodysullivan7582]

This comment rules. Thank you so much for typing it and helping me better understand the emotional functions of a chord progression. This video is so bonkers and ignited a beautifully inspirational spark within me to learn more.

[@valerynorth]

I love these 4 chord loop analysis videos. I keep trying to apply them to songs I've written in the past and try to figure out what I was doing with them. Some, I now know are common enough to have official names - others not so much. So it's deeply fascinating to see what I've done. These transition types seem to come a lot closer to explaining what I've been doing and I'm excited to get stuck in to re-examining my own songs (let alone anyone else's)! Thank you for a great new tool!

[@variousthings6470]

On the analysis of Fminor in Stevie Wonder's Sir Duke: in Adam Neely's video Q&A #48 ("Why I was fired from an off-Broadway show"), he spends about 8 minutes at the start of the video talking about how that chord functions within the progression.

[@griffinc466]

Spoiler alert, the notes of an Fm chord include upper extensions of a G#7 (F, Ab, C, and Eb being the G#7's 13, 9, 3, and 5 respectively), while the notes of the following EM7 chord include an upper extension of C#m7 (C#, E, G# and B being the EM7's 13, 1, 3, and 5 respectively). Therefore the harmony is implying a heavily ornamented I-VI-ii-V progression. Also the nice voice-leading helps (Fm7 sharing two notes with EM7 and having its other two notes only a half step above EM7's other two notes).

[@MaggaraMarine]

@@griffinc466 _"Therefore the harmony is implying a heavily ornamented I-VI-ii-V progression"_ I would say that analysis was a bit of a stretch. I mean, you can obviously force the progression into an existing mold, but I don't really think the Fm7 is a substitute for G#7 - I'm just not hearing it functioning that way. I mean, that analysis was kind of interesting, but I really don't 100% buy into it - it just seems like trying to force something into an existing mold that it doesn't really fit that well (I mean, you would have to reorganize the notes of the chord, totally changing the bass progression and the chord quality, and then you would also have to basically ignore the next chord, or blend it with the chord that comes after it, and IMO, the Emaj7 gets more emphasis in the progression and is in a more important role than the C#m7 that comes after it). And actually, even Adam recognizes this in the end of the analysis - he says that it's a bit of a stretch to say that this is actually what's happening in the progression, but he just wanted to share it because it's an interesting thought, because that way it could be compared to a Duke Ellington tune. I don't think the Fm7 is a traditionally functional chord. It's simply a chromatic approach chord a half step above the Emaj7, which it even shares two common tones with. I would guess that Stevie knew that he wanted Emaj7 as the third chord in the progression, so he figured out what could come before that chord. And a as Adam demonstrated in the video, the Fm7 is definitely a more "dramatic" chord than a D#m7 chord that would be a more "traditional" harmonization of the 7th scale degree in that context (considering that it is going towards the IV chord). If we took the I VI ii V analysis, then the Fm7 should add pull towards the ii chord. But it is quite obviously approaching the IV chord. So, I really see no justification for calling it a substitute for the secondary dominant of the ii chord. I guess this is more of a response to Adam Neely than to your comment, because you were just explaining what Adam Neely was saying in the video... So whatever...

[@griffinc466]

@@MaggaraMarine "If we took the I VI ii V analysis, then the Fm7 should add pull towards the ii chord. But it is quite obviously approaching the IV chord. So, I really see no justification for calling it a substitute for the secondary dominant of the ii chord." Well, if we're calling Fm7 a modified VI, then we can also call EM7 a modified ii. This is why Adam refers to a whole "shadow progression" in his video and not just a "shadow chord." But yeah, it's just one way to look at it and there are plenty of other ones.

[@MaggaraMarine]

@@griffinc466 _"if we're calling Fm7 a modified VI, then we can also call EM7 a modified ii"_ Sure, but I think that's exactly what makes the analysis a bit of a stretch. And honestly, calling the IV a "modified ii" or a "substitute of ii" isn't really that weird on its own, and it's definitely something that I could buy into (because ii and IV have a very similar function). It's calling the Fm7 a "modified V of ii" that I'm having more of a problem with, because I just don't hear that chord adding any kind of a pull towards the ii chord. It is not functioning like the V of ii. It is more of a chromatic approach to the IV. To me that analysis just had a "2 5 1 is a common progression, so let's see how this particular progression can be made to fit that pattern" vibe. I mean, this kind of analysis is fairly common in jazz where people are taught about the importance of 2 5 1 progressions, so a lot of people will try to explain everything with 2 5 1. That's kind of like if you had a progression like F G Am, and said "F is basically a rootless Dm7 and includes all of the important 'characteristic notes' of Dm7 that are the 3rd and 7th. And if you reorganize the notes of Am, you get C6 without a fifth, but the fifth is pretty commonly omitted from chords and doesn't add much color any way, so it can be ignored. So, it's just a ii V I progression in C major." (And I think you would agree that this would be a bit of a stretch. It would be forcing a common pop/rock progression to fit a common pattern in jazz that uses completely different "harmonic vocabulary". Not saying that Stevie Wonder's harmonies are that different from jazz, though.) I think Adam's point was that it's just an interesting thought (and it was an interesting way of making a reference to Duke Ellington, when the song is called "Sir Duke" and is basically an homage to Duke Ellington). I mean, he also mentioned the "secondary subtonic of iii" analysis, which doesn't make much sense either, because the chord in that progression has nothing to do with the iii chord. Sure, it might function as the secondary subtonic of iii in another context, but in this case, that's just not what's happening. Chord functions are something that don't exist in a vacuum, and the way a specific chord is functioning depends on the context. (And again, I think his point with this analysis was just to talk about the secondary ii V progressions in general, and not to suggest that this would be the best way of looking at the progression.)

[@griffinc466]

@@MaggaraMarine I mean...yes, Adam's whole point was that it was an interesting way to look at it. I'm not super interested in which way is the "best" way to look at it -- that's subjective. I was just providing details on this specific reading of the harmony.

[@rupen42]

3:35 THRI-LLER, thriller night

[@VOYAGEUR-YT]

Whenhe said it doesn't give you an indication of where it's going, I was like "Ya it's Thriller, duh"

[@ryanrhodes5819]

Soooooooo.... “Beat! It!” If your not hear to make Jewelry! Or curtains. Jewelry makers! Bead Up!

[@mingnrich]

Right? “That’s Brittney Spears” no dude This Is Thriiiiiileeeerrrr.

[@cerveraux]

Sometimes voicing is more important than functions themselves

[@littlefishbigmountain]

Considering a lot of chords use the same notes, the voicing can change what sounds like the tonic of a given chord, plus changing the voice leading can change the sound of the function and the key too

[@freds2052]

this is maybe your finest video yet! love the analysis here, i think it’s really robust and i can’t wait to -as you say- play around with this model!!

[@therealandrew185]

We could think of modal jazz as each chord being an island without it being a loop. It's cool to apply some of this stuff to other types of harmony.

[@scottblair8261]

The twelve bar blues can probably be condensed into four chords, and then explained using this model too.

[@alsatusmd1A13]

Scott Blair the twelve bar blues is only supposed to have I, IV and V though.

[@scottblair8261]

@@alsatusmd1A13 four chord loops can have repeated chords

[@crimfan]

@@alsatusmd1A13 True, and usually the extra chords that show up are things like secondary dominants, suspensions, substitutions, or just some local embellishment. For instance, a ii7-V7 that shows up in the middle of a jazz blues could often be thought of as a suspension going to the V with the V resolving wherever it goes.

[@alsatusmd1A13]

Scott Blair but that makes the twelve bar blues appear to be going nowhere, which is obviously not how we feel it.

[@MusicIan423]

What's really interesting is you are putting to words something I've felt about chord loops for a while. In particular the part about signposts being a chord that is not set up by the one before it but sets up the next chord, and more generally the original theory by Tagg makes a whole lotta sense.

[@photosinensis]

It seems that Sweet Home Alabama is the bane of music theory.

[@Programme021]

Especially funny when you look at how simple the progression is.

[@BananaManPL]

Really shows how music theory is really not a science, but merely a description of devices used by composers from the past. I really like 12tone's approach, because it's very different from how music is mostly taught. There's still a LOT of elitism and gatekeeping amongst musicians, whereas in reality music theory it's just a whole bunch of examples.

[@Pablo360able]

If anything, it's the *boon* of music theory, since you can apparently never be done analyzing it.

[@littlefishbigmountain]

Pablo360able Totally agree. If it wasn’t for music that challenged our models, music theory would be rather stagnant

[@andrewleach1667]

But it's not. Folks on youtube just don't understand how melody determines key center more than the chords by themselves do. Or maybe they just don't understand mixolydian I dunno?

[@tapiocabun]

somewhere along the line windows decided to embellish one of these chord progressions with its own notification sound and it was actually really satisfying

[@tapiocabun]

update: it was a c major arpeggio after the chop suey progression

[@Moises_505]

This model is more closely connected to how I intuitively feel musical harmony as opposed to how traditional music theory says "I'm hearing the harmony".

[@TheAngryPheonix]

Possibly because music has changed since common practice was invented.

[@Moises_505]

@@TheAngryPheonix It's possible. I grew up listening to music that emphasized rhythm and timbre far beyond any harmonic content though, so also maybe not. Either way the model seems to be very useful in most situations that aren't strict traditional western music.

[@mwicks1968]

I need to watch this again ... 🤪🤯😂

[@natasgabel1672]

You have the same ish profile pic as the ad I had for this video

[@rebeccapaiottidasilva4054]

@@natasgabel1672 lol

[@thezestfall1st107]

@@natasgabel1672 I’m gonna guess it was an ad for the United States military.

[@sayven]

Fmin: a) Disturbs the flow of the loop between Tonic and Outgoing b) Creates a transition to the Medial that (1) emphasizes the Medial's tonality in the loop and (2) increases the flow at that point c) Adds the flavour of the chord to the total mood of the loop d) Adds the flavour of the transitions to and from the chord to the total mood of the loop e) Alters the perceived flavour and tonality of the other chords by having the listener relate them to this chord

[@boazcohen7992]

Watched Adam Neely's video eh?

[@badmanjones179]

f) suond good

[@gillianomotoso328]

1:38 - it’s a modified 50s progression. The vi chord has become relative minor to itself (#iv). This adds an extra degree of darkness to the progression, as well as a ragtime-type downward passing chord to the subdominant. And in that sense, it’s a variant of what I like to call a vortex chord: it’s a sharpened or flattened variant of a major or minor chord that is minor or major as a result of the alteration.

[@wege8409]

Fun fact: the acronym for a piston loop is DISC: destination, island, signpost, connector

[@lilyh4467]

This video probably made a lot of pop fans think their music is super complicated lol. Great vid

[@djvoid1]

I watch 12 Tone on 1.5 speed. Ladies, form an orderly queue

[@bradroberts1813]

I’ve followed your videos for a long time and I think the ideas you presented are insightful and illuminating. Great job!

[@merseyviking]

6:37 Monty Hall and 12:26 Euler's bridge problems

[@acediadekay3793]

Didn't the Soviets bomb one of the bridges (and therefore "accidentally" solving the riddle)?

[@J3Puffin]

Metapod being a transition...I think I now have a phrase to smooth over awkward gaps in conversations and DND games.

[@raidedsalt7110]

Metapod time

[@BigDmitry]

IMHO to get to the core of what works in music and what doesn't, one have to stop looking at just the basic chord labels. There's just not enough information there. At the very least, one needs to include inversions, extensions and polychords to represent the full color of harmony. But most importantly, it's individual voice movements that tie progressions together, not the chords themselves. When you think in voices, you move them more or less independently, trying to fit them into a chord at each moment, harmonise them to convey a specific feeling. The chosen harmony in turn colors the voices, and sets them up for further movement. And this back and forth interplay -- voices forming harmonies and harmonies coloring voices and directing them -- is at the heart of music. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem, and so one might be tempted to say chords are equally important to voices. But I'd argue that chords are secondary, since when we hear music, we hear melodies with each note colored by the harmony from other parts, but not the chords themselves. So to summarise: chord progressions don't mean much on their own, it's the individual voice movements, the melodies that matter. But what about common chord progressions, why are they so prevalent? I'd argue it's because they are easy templates for setting up decent voice movements. They are good starting points for beginner composers to find interesting patterns without getting lost in the infinite variety of harmony. But I also argue that with enough experience you can find context and good voice movement for any given chord progression, even the most nonsensical one.

[@andrewleach1667]

Yep. Chord progressions have all the dna of good voice leading built inside them but are accessible to anyone with a small amount of effort, no need to learn any classical theory. Do you drive an automatic transmission? I think of chords as "automatic harmony".

[@jackpock1882]

@@andrewleach1667 so pure counterpoint is manual?

[@pooplenepe59]

"when we hear music, we hear melodies with each note colored by the harmony from other parts, but not the chords themselves." That's actually really good to know. Music youtube has inspired me to try and learn music theory (and ear training) basically from the ground up, and I want to be able to pinpoint why my favorite songs sound so good, but I have trouble perceiving that a chord is being played in a song at all, much less identify it. I'm fascinated by the secrets of pop songs, but the music snob attitude that four chords = bad and that more chords is more better makes me feel like an idiot for not being able to perceive those things. I assumed that harmony must always be glaringly obvious to a trained ear, since not only can musically literate people identify it, but it is apparently SO important that for many it is seemingly the ONLY thing that matters in a piece of music. The idea of chords coloring the melody is much closer to what I experience as a listener.

[@cloenobody]

thanks for giving vocabularyy and clarity to something intuitively felt, this is really neat

[@JJEMcManus]

You lost me just outside Cincinnati but... wow ! was that a great piece to listen to and watch, or what? Your best vid of the year so far, hands down.

[@411exit]

5:48 he probably just meant that islands are rare like unicorns but it's so perfect that i'm opting to interpret it as a nick diamonds reference

[@belcavendishny]

Something I think is important for understanding the two measures of G in Sweet Home Alabama: they don't really feel like two different musical entities. They just feel like one stretched-out chord. That makes it seem like one big connector, rather than a destination and a signpost, or really two of anything.

[@matthewloughran73]

I feel like this video just chucks everything a know about chord progressions out the window.

[@Nootathotep]

> everything a know howdy

[@cmarley314]

Ah speaks wit' a suthern accent too!

[@AntHenson]

I dig it, would love to see a more in depth vid on this idea!

[@bleakneon]

I had to watch parts of this video a couple of times to fully get it. But now I (think that I) do, I am very excited to play around with it. Personally functional harmony has never really clicked for me, but this seems to explain things in a way that is closer to how my mind thinks about music.

[@StefaanHimpe]

Maybe it's time to take one step back, and take a look at an underlying deeper principle governing many styles of music: voice leading. It seems to me that many of these "mysterious" and "inexplicable" loops work because the so called "voice leading distance" between successive chords is kept small. That is, you can basically move between any two chords as long as you don't need to make too big changes (it's a basic law of the universe to resist change ;) ). E.g. in a four chord loop: "C Am Dm G7" going from chord to chord, one never needs to change all notes, and those that do change, do so over a small distance: "c e g" -> "c e a" -> "d f a" -> "(b) d f g" -> loop back to -> "c e g" . Between each successive chord the "voice leading distance" is kept small, with at least one note kept in common and one or two other notes moving a small distance. A very interesting book describing how chord progressions can be seen as traveling through a "voice leading space" (almost like moving a pawn on a board game) is "A Geometry of Music" by Dmitry Tymoczko. Thinking of chord progressions in terms of moving to different places in a voice leading space in small steps (i.e. keeping voice leading distance small) probably takes away the need for random new chord functions to be introduced. Of course we now should spend some effort to check if striving for small voice leading distance neatly explains all the loops you mentioned, but when I learned about this theory some years ago, it struck me as a very clean and sensible approach, explaining many progressions traditional analysis struggles with, and helping me to come up with less common progressions for my own music.

[@Ultrasonix3]

This is how I return to letting 12tone videos consume my life

[@AmandaKaymusic]

These clips take me away from the everyday concerns. I can dive deeply and come out feeling a little bemused at times yet refreshed.

[@martinhidalgoortega7846]

so cool you mentioned shinedown tho, great video as always, thank you!

[@janco_verduin]

This is probably the first time I ever heard the second G chord in Sweet Alabama as *not* a setup for the following D. Funny how a frame of mind can change your perception! Great video! (had to watch it twice though haha)

[@thinkingape7655]

Wow you’re excited! I have to listen to this at .75 speed just to understand you 🤣. Love the info 🤘

[@UnfortunatelyTheHunger]

Okay, but how about chord progression that don't really begin with the tonic? For example, Simon Patterson's "Us" begins with the bass remaining steadily on Gbm, until it hits the breakdown in the middle, where we get introduced to the chord progression of D - Gb - E - Bm

[@2raddude]

pointPi I don’t think this model excludes those loops! You might just say something like “the chord loop starts on the incoming chord” to describe its new starting position.

[@UnfortunatelyTheHunger]

@@2raddude Yeah, thanks for the explanation

[@juanchis.investigadorsonoro]

I only need to watch this 5 more times with a notebook and a piano. You always make me think so hard.

[@TTFMjock]

The 2nd chord in Sir Duke is pretty clearly a substitute for the dominant 6th, as it sounds the root, 3rd, 5th, and 13th of the G#13 and functions the same way. The “missing” 7th and the Tritone jump in the bass give it color.

[@kajetansokolnicki5714]

I think that, since jazz musicians often treat those ii-V7-like structures like a single V7 chord, for the purpose of your framework those can most of the time be treated as just the second chord. Like for example in the solo changes to "Red Clay" by Freddie Hubbard.

[@tinnitusthenight5545]

I've been thing about this for a long time but never really felt like figuring it out so.. Thanks!

[@ZipplyZane]

This analysis gives me a much better understanding of why this 4 chord theory needs to exist. Though I still suggest considering functional harmony as well, as it tends to work when you have chord setups.

[@suomeaboo]

This is such an amazing model! It's the first time I actually had some understanding about how chord loops work, and the first framework I ever had to understand modern chord progressions. Thank you so much for this! After playing around for a little bit, at least to me, I can only hear weak motion following the I chord, never strong motion. As an example, in the IIm V I progression, the change from I to IIm doesn't sound like strong motion to me since the I chord feels resolved by definition. Or in the Andalusian Cadence (Im bVII bVI V), the change from Im to bVII also feels like weak motion due to moving away from the tonic. Perhaps you can also say it's just weaker relative to all the other motions in the loop, especially the V to Im at the end. I guess this would imply that connector loops (all strong motion) are impossible; they'd be considered cascade loops. The IIm V I progression and the Andalusian Cadence are examples of this. This would mean only 5 main loop types: island loop (all weak motion), drift loop, piston loop, cascade loop, and 2-destination loop (a shorter name would be nice). For 12:11, I'd argue for treating long sustained chords as a single chord instead of breaking it up, and that the G in Sweet Home Alabama would be a connector. I'd also argue given my observation above that the transition from D to C is weak motion (since D is the I chord), Sweet Home Alabama also uses a cascade loop. This model is such a fun thing to play around, and perhaps gave me a small glimpse of what it's like to be a music theorist. I'd like to see how where this leads me since it's seems so useful.

[@Krockz10]

no idea why im watching this when i know im just going to go back to running up and down the pentatonic over a Am-G-D progression

[@jeffyutzler309]

The thing I like about this theory is that it doesn't just pertain to 4CLs. While I love 4CLs, I don't seem to use them in my own music very much. I've got a song that goes C C7 F C C7 (C Mixolydian). The C7 is the destination, the F is an island, and the C is a signpost. Despite what you say at 6:52, signposts can appear on the tonic and the repetition helps bolster the intent. This is logical because the whole point of the composition is to emphasize the minor seventh, not the tonic. I am not aware of any other music theory that even comes close to describe what's going on here. Bravo!

[@soumonism]

Thanks! I definitely think it is a correct analysis to say that there are two destinations in one loop in for example Creep. I always understood Sir Duke as a chromatic modulation of key center but perhaps this is more telling. More vids on this concept would be interesting!

[@glumbortango7182]

Yes you did! You did it! Go music theory! 🌟

[@JonathanAcierto]

I use to play in a contemporary Christian worship band and there were 4 loops everywhere. Even though I could find them boring (trained jazz musician), I came to recognize the almost hypnotic effect they had on listeners. The most common ones seemed to be I V VIm IV and I VIm V IV. And sometimes we would hold on the IV to make the endings more “prayerful.”

[@jakubkrieger3512]

Hi, I was trying to figure out how to write this down in a convenient way, and I came up with this: Island: ^ Connector: ~ Signpost: > Destination: x You can write this linearly, so for example: ^>~x but on paper, I find it better to write this as a loop (a kind of circle).

[@carmaigdeforest7284]

Hey Cory! I'm loving all this four chord stuff you put out. My one suggestion for making the next one making your next 4chord loop vid even groovier: Demonstrate a given loop by playing the loop twice (1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4) rather than playing it just once, repeating just the first chord. e.g., Instead of illustrating the doo wop loop by playing I-vi-IV-V-I on your keyboard; played I-vi-IV-V-I-vi-IV-V-. This way your audience immediately hears the progression, or rather chord sequence, moving as a loop. With your 5 measure approach you end up emphasizing the "tonic-ness" ("tonicity"?) of the I chord, rather than the infinity loop of it all. I realize this will increase your video by three measures times [number of sequence illustrations]. You talk so dang fast however, i don't think you need to worry about it going on too long ;~)

[@davidbaron7427]

I always like your explanations and analyses. As you're making a new model here, you should write an academic paper about it and get it published. It could help scholars to have a new model while getting you official recognition for your efforts.

[@zozzy4630]

"Time" by NF uses a really interesting one: IV vi V ii (I'm not going to pretend to know what key it's in and I don't feel like checking, but that would be F, Amin, G, Dmin, probably transposed though). The outgoing, medial, and incoming are in a chain of set-ups, but the tonic is an island - I think that, like in "Wonderwall," it works because of the movement in thirds so the 4th degree is stable across the incoming, tonic, and outgoing. It's still a little odd to see the tonic be not only an island, but *the* island in a chord loop.

[@elianmusic7452]

HAHAHAHA loved the bit where you messed with the next chord and said jk. Excellent video ❤️ thank you once again 12 tone

[@Birkguitars]

All the while I was watching this I was wondering how Hotel California would work with this sort of analysis. To me it is a simple series of changes in the root note of each chord Bm-F#7-A-E-G-D-Em-F#7. Depending which way you go round the octave it can start on B and go down a down a fourth then up a minor third (Bm-F#7-A) then the same again (A-E-G) then down a fourth and up a whole tone and then another one (G-D-Em-F#7) before returning to the original chord by going up a 4th. The chorus then loops around the second half of the progression, so it is a loop within a loop. As a guitarist this makes it easy to remember the changes as they follow a relatively simple pattern across the fretboard but it throws up some interesting modulations. We have five major chords (A, D, E, F and G) and a minor/major based on the same root note (E and Em). We start on Bm but if we take that as the tonic it does not explain the F#7 that follows it and that does not explain the A that follows that etc. It is almost as though it is modulating on every chord change. Rather than have my brain spinning in my cranium I just think of it as a really cool bass line and the chords go major, minor and seventh as sounds right. Is there a theoretical explanation of this or should we just chalk it up to the overly psychoactive effects of living in California - which is kind of what the song is about anyway.

[@Griceyman]

Thanks for that it was a great take on things and helped me a lot

[@michaelwinegarden5443]

If you haven't yet, you should absolutely publish a paper on this. Music collages should absolutely teach this and talk about the modern functions of the chords in this new and different modern harmonic environment.

[@L-hargestam]

I think "connecter cords" are more melodic so used more frequently. And "island cords" sometimes end up having this effect where it feels like there's no direction in the music.

[@snubbleeater]

So it's all zubats and metapods, I get it now

[@LoraCoggins]

This video makes me wonder how many different four-chord loops can be made, taking into account every note and every type of chord/chordioid. I feel very intrigued on what the actual answer is.

[@isaacgibson848]

isn't the F minor in sir duke just a relative minor substitution for the VI of a I-vi-IV-V loop? (with the VI being a major chord because jazz)

[@freds2052]

part of the practice of music theory is different ways of analyzing elements of a piece of music. a particular chord in a loop is very unlikely to be “just” one thing, and this video is an exercise in looking at loops a different way

[@isaacgibson848]

@@freds2052 right, i just mean that it's not so out there

[@alsatusmd1A13]

Isaac Gibson taken together with the B and E immediately on either side, it makes a reverse polarity N-V-I progression in E (without the polarity of V reversing because V must be major in a major key) and then the E goes down a third to set up a II-V-I back to B. Or maybe it actually is a four-chord loop where the medial chord is supposed to a seventh because jazz borrows from the Impressionists.

[@potatoindespair4494]

Imo in Cm Eb F Ab (8:48), the F doesn't feel like a destination, it feels like it sets up the Ab. In traditional terms I would describe the F as a substitute for an Adim that resolves down a half step. The way I perceive it, this particular thirds motion feels more cadential than the stepwise motion from Eb to F, so I'm not so sure about equating setups to only dominant and stepwise motion. Thoughts? Am I understanding this wrong?

[@thiagogomes3226]

Hey, I'm going to take a time this weekend to classify all 4 four chord mathematically possible according to this theory, very instigating to me. This can be done by considering 24 chords, major and minor in all the 12tones (pun intended), or by considering 11 possible intervals between the 2 chord categories. I think it's possible to reach a reasoble number by organizing the permutations in same categories. The rest is just to name then according to this theory.

[@thiagogomes3226]

@id523a Yeah, I agree. The way I'm approaching it, a 4 chord loop can be viewed as 4 intervals between the chords, some intervals means connect, set up as named in the video, some not. The point is to generate all intervals possibilities inside each of the 16 categories you mentioned, and also maybe grouping the loops by sequential permutations, I think it would be a list with a size and organization that make it's use possible by a human. I already started a python module for a bit of experimentation.

[@oceansmayappear]

Funny this should have been your topic. Just before clicking this video I had been pondering the Pixies "Gouge Away" and how it is based on a 5 chord loop ( 1 - b3 - b6 - 1 - b6 ). I was thinking it should sound wrong, but it doesn't. Although it has an ethereal mood about it, I never hear the reason why unless I concentrate hard. And I can't help thinking it could never have been written by anyone who studied music theory.

[@AnimusInvidious]

Absolute brilliance.

[@BenMBass]

"Taking someone else's ideas and building on them is how scholarship works" this is what I find so fascinating about scholarship, in effect it creates a form of pseudo-immortality, where the work of an individual continues long past their own passing. We humans are fascinated by the concept of life unending, thanks to our own fairly short lifespan, and often romanticize the concept as seen in works such as Tolkien's writings, where he describes the works of the elves as being of a grandeur unmatched by mortal men, but I'd argue that mankinds work is very much in line with that of immortal beings, thanks to scholarship. The great minds of history live on to this day thanks to people picking up where they left off

[@nanamacapagal8342]

IMO P!ATD - High Hopes is interesting with respect to 4 chord loops. The destination is on the SECOND chord where the outgoing chord would normally go. In fact, everything is shifted over. The main loop goes: Bb F Dm C Bb F Dm Am C and Am are basically the same. We can just look at one half of the loop and all I will say will also apply to the other half of the loop. The F is the destination chord. That's clear because it's the tonic. Then Dm is a signpost. It leads our ears to C (or Am). C and Bb are connectors because they lead us continuously back to our destination F. When you analyse it by Tagg's method everything is shifted over by one chord. We start with the incoming chord rather than the tonic, sitting on the second chord. Sweet Home Alabama is another mystery with chord loops. It's just a simple D C G chord progression. And yet music theorists are crying over this one because it seems so hard to crack. It's a lot easier to explain with your theory rather than classical theory. Instead of worrying about b7s and relative keys, we can simply say that the loop is all connectors, making it possible to start the loop wherever you want and still have it be in key.

[@Ragnarockalypse]

I'd love to see your take on Meshuggah, and how they sometimes throw the very idea of chord loops out the window, after setting it on fire.

[@AmandaKaymusic]

Thanks 12tone. I dig your clips. You are my pick when it comes down to clarifying theory, making even 4 chord loops interesting. Watching these clips, though complicated and interesting, always leaves me feeling more grounded, more whole, less grave. I appreciate that. With chord tone scales I am always curious about the chords that can be played inbetween the ones that are using the actual scale. If the chord tone scale was based on the ionian the chords being I Im7 IIIm7 IV7 V7 VIm7 VIIm7b5 what would the chord tone scale use on a bII (where a tone sub sits nicely), bIII etc. It might be a good day (cold cloudy winter morning in tropical north Queensland) for me to play with the 14 scales as chord tone scales and find some of the more edgy scales and see if sweeter chords fit inbetween the scale tone chords. I might try the spicy feel of some of the modes you shared (ones I rarely use) to see if something sweet fits between. Does that make sense to anyone? Trying to expain what I am talking about without an instrument makes me admire 12 Tones eloquence with their explanations even more. Great clip.

[@AdamGottliebandOneLove]

This is really great! Thank you so much for all your videos on 4-Chord loops -- super helpful! In general, how would you describe the function of playing a relative major/minor chord in the context of a 4-chord loop? It seems like a "setup" of some kind to me, but it doesn't fit into your definition here. For example, Am / G / Em / D, (i / VII / v / IV in Am or ii / I / vi / V in G) feels like every chord transition is a "connector" but doesn't quite work with the model in the video. Love all you do!

[@asherkauk3339]

I find songs where the chorus starts on the 4 of the key very triumphant. And often times that leads to a destination (in the form of a 1) in the outgoing position. Is this the proper way to think about it or would you just shift the whole thing around and put the 1 in the tonic. The same goes for that’s what I like by Bruno mars, ii V iii VI, connector destination, signpost connector

[@Khristafer]

I think sponsors really need to know how important those gummy bears are. I've never skipped a sponsor pitch because of the pay off of the gummies.

[@thalesofthewell]

Daft Punk's Voyager is strikingly similar to the Sir Duke progression (Also, congrats on the theory!)

[@nigelroy1769]

That nail on your thumb... You've been playing fingerstyle guitar haven't you :)

[@bassie7358]

Left-handed fingerstyle guitar even!

[@Sk0lzky]

Only on thumb? I thought you needed at least 4 (and for some flamenco and contemporary music even 5) lul

[@Sk0lzky]

@@bassie7358 that's some next level shit

[@cooperherlihy9199]

It looks like all his fingers have a nail like that. Occasionally his other hand stays visible on the bottom

[@michaelt.2659]

I’d say that a chord held longer in a loop is less of a harmonic movement and more to stress the function of the chord in the loop, especially when the function is one of the setup types. Sort of a ramp-up to make the next chord have more impact. Maybe an oversimplification, but that’s what comes to mind.

[@an_annoying_cat]

2 chord loops are possible, like in the solo section of Prism's Dancing Moon (iiim7 and IVmaj7), so this model isnt complete yet

[@MattLeGroulx]

I would think of the F minor in Sir Duke as a modified tritone substitution, the difference being that Ab/G# which serves as a note in common with the E major while all of the other notes lead back to the E major chord by a semitone. It's kind of a "soft" tritone sub.

[@Quellification]

A couple of days ago I was writting a song with B-G#m-E-F. I was thinking that "huh this is a good progression" but never really though about it. So, here I am just watching a suggested video and I find out it is the classic doo-wop! I though I was clever.. Eh, the chorus is good anyway until i find out it is just something standart haha..

[@hiqwertyhi]

9:58 for "single destination on incoming or outgoing" what about the other two "shifts" of the 4 chord loop? I'm think specifically of glosoli by sigur ros, the chord progression in the chorus/ outro of D-Em-C-G where G is the root and feels like home when it's hit. can't think of an example of IV-I-vi-V off the top of my head but that would work too, no? provided the I is clearly home base

[@davewestner]

I would love to know if anyone who watches these videos makes music 100% based on theory. What I mean is composing music on paper or notation software using only your own understanding of music theory without referring to an instrument like a guitar or piano to see what the piece sounds like. Then once you deem it finished you can play it. I'd be curious what kind of music might come out of this. I do realize that some people are very good at hearing music in their head, so this might no apply to them. Thanks for reading....and thanks for these videos @12tone

[@Fearranl]

Rob Scallon did something like that a while ago, although more as a goofy fun video idea, but it's still interesting.

[@pipkitten]

A music group I was in once did that as a game. We each wrote a song without listening to it until after it was done. It was a spectacular mess lmao.

[@boazcohen7992]

Actually, it's not accurate to say that music theory is supposed to make you a better composser or arranger - it's all about the analysis. Saying this is like saying that learning grammer would make you a better writer or learning math wold make you a better phisician. It's true in the basic, but whenever you learn really advanced music theory, it's very likely that you'll never use it even if you get the chance.

[@davewestner]

@@Fearranl thanks. I want to hear it, will check it out if I can find it

[@davewestner]

@@boazcohen7992 I imagine it could help from time to time, if you're trying to think of a clever way to get from point A to point B (say a key change). If you know a lot about theory, it'll give you a few more ideas than you might have if you didn't. That said, there are plenty of people who don't know a lick about music theory who have written some brilliant music.

[@BryTee]

If we take the 12 tones, and simply all the major and minor chords, as a 4 chord progression is 1,2,3,4, 1 (ie repeat). If we ignore transpositions by (say) always starting on C (or Cm), there are 27,648 different four chord loops. OK, there are plenty more with 7th, 9th, dim, sus, etc, but I'm thinking basic chords. Obviously some are strange, like: C C C C C (although there are some famous one-chord songs like that such as "Papa was a rolling stone" or "Electric Avenue"). I feel any duplicating the previous chord potentially makes it a three chord loop (like Sweet Home Alabama), so does that count (I'm sure people who like that song would say it's ok), but removing those reduces the number down to 24,334 four chord loops. Some might be hard on the ear: C F#m C F#m C - but "hard on the ear" is difficult to assess. But surely there are so many that not all could have been heard by a single individual? And surely not all can have been analyzed? Or is it that the "rules" cause so many of that mid-twenty thousand count to be rejected that we're left with just a few dozen that sound ok?

[@Viviantoga]

Hey, the return of Duck!

[@owenross8886]

Essay of a youtube comment here... sorry not sorry. So as sort of a "yes and” to this video, I like to think of the F-7 in Sir Duke as acting as a pivot between two parallel blues scales. And I think this concept can be used to explain a lot “loop” progressions found in jazz/funk/soul/r&b/blues etc. Here’s what I mean- all the chords diatonic to B major can be improvised over with Ab-/Bmaj pentatonic scale. The F- can be improvised over with an Ab major pentatonic scale. So the common thread between the two is this Ab implied root, with a shift between major and minor. Bearing in mind that jazz, funk, soul, gospel, R&B, etc all pull heavily from the blues, this lends credence to this analysis in the context of musical tradition. If you think of the most generic blues, let’s say an F blues made of all dominant chords, you’ll hear improvisers switching back and forth constantly between F major and F minor pentatonic ideas (on the IV chord probably specifically F- because of the Ab in Bb7, but on the rest of the chord progression both scales are fair game). There’s this overall bit-tonal sense of parallel major and minor pentatonics fundamental to the blues. Now we work our way back to more harmonically complex music that comes out of this tradition, and often this bi-tonality/mode mixture underpins seemingly odd chord choices. Sir duke: Bmaj7 to F-7 = Ab- pent to Ab maj pent. The choice of F minor as opposed to another chord that could harmonize the mode shift is probably because of its neat voice-leading from F-7 down to Emaj7. Here’s some more examples off the top of my head: Jamiroquai, 7 days in Sunny June (verse): | A7- | F#- | D-7 | G7sus | (all chords are A- pent except for the F#-7 which is Amaj pent) The chorus to “I can’t help it” - Stevie Wonder: |F-7 | F-7| Db-7 | Eb7#9 | (Ab major pent to Ab- minor pent) Possibly all of the jazz standard Boliva by Cedar Walton: |Ebmaj7 (D- pent) | (following chords all D maj pent-ish-, but it can get a little spicy at moments) A7 | Dmaj7 | Ab7 | G maj7 | F#7alt | B-7 | Cmaj7 #11 | B-7 | /A | /G# | (following chords all D- pent) G-7 C7 | Fmaj7 | B7alt | Bbmaj7 | A7alt | G7sus…. | And some more complex examples based on this concept that use “chains" of parallel pentatonics: Giant Steps (just gonna use key centers here) : Bmaj to Gmaj = Bmaj pent to B- pent, Gmaj to Ebmaj = Gmaj pent to to G- pent, Ebmaj to Bmaj = Ebmaj pent to Eb-pent Bridge of Humpty Dumpty by Chick Corea (D-7 | B-7 | Ab-7 | F-7 ) : D-7 to B-7 = D- pent to D maj pent, B-7 to Ab-7 = B- pent to Bmaj pent, Ab-7 to F-7 = Ab- pent to Abmaj pent In those last two examples it looks like this parallel mode shift is also a property of chromatic mediants - so jumping all the way back to Sir Duke… If you look at the Bmaj7 as the upper structure of an Ab-9, or conversely the F-7 as an Abmaj7 / F, you basically have chromatic mediants, or at least very similar voice leading. Tldr: Pentatonic mode mixture ties together loop progressions nicely. And maybe it has something to do with chromatic mediants. And maybe that’s the function of F-7 in Sir Duke.

[@LivingLava]

Could moving from an E chord to an A be considered moving down a perfect fifth even if the bass note is going to an A that is higher than the E?

[@Stephen-Fox]

Diglet and Metapod in one video? Coincidence, or was something like New Snap on your mind when making this video? Really interesting video as always.

[@shinydino]

Gizensha Fox Zubat too!

[@chrisgarcia901]

Please break down some hip hop chord progressions!! And chord progressions found in the beat scene!! So many examples of interesting progressions found in hip hop and rnb.

[@rocknrobin123143]

To plug one of my favorite four chords loops into this, No Rain by Blind Melon is another two destination loop, E D A G

[@TheBoglodite]

So, what exactly sets up a chord? How does one chord setup another? I suspect voice leading plays a large role.

[@racine09]

The Sir Duke: Say the progression was B Ab E F# fairly normal . Substitute the Ab 7 for its relative minor Fm . The F to the E is only a semitone in the bass so it acts like suspension or passing chord maybe? a bit like a tritone .

[@SUNDRIEDTOMATOESBraydenOlson]

Working some Neo-Riemannian theory into this would be interesting. In my approximation a lot of the non-functional stuff can be explained using N.R. (smooth voice leading, use of common tones, leading tone motion, and parallel motion) but it's quite possible that I'm just be too unwilling to let go of common-practice.

[@DavidSchiess]

You: Stevie wonder clearly used that chord as a substitute because.. Me, an intellectual: He hit the wrong chord because he's blind! ..I stole that from the comment section of Adam Neely's video

[@clomino3]

Wouldn't the IV-I-V-vi chord progression (for example A-E-B-C#m) have the destination on the outgoing chord and the signpost on the tonic?

[@MattLeGroulx]

Characteristic behaviour = cat in a box is very good.

[@Jaspy524]

Because the whole model is based on transitions, couldn’t the “chord bundles” just have a dual function? (I know, super vague, give me a second) A common variant of the 4 chords is to walk down to the IV, like this I-V-[vi-V]-IV. The bundle could just relate to the chord before it as a vi, and the chord after as a V, making it a connector, rather than a destination. The question then becomes, do you classify the bundles as weak or strong bundles depending on harmonic motion? I’d say yes, because it acts as a relatively simple resolution to the bundle question. I don’t know. Thoughts?

[@doom_shark4569]

I think you might be on to something with this, assuming I understand you correctly. So when you have two chords where you would normally have one, which we're calling bundles, you check to see whether it's set up based on the first chord of the loop, and whether it sets up the next chord in the loop based on the second chord of the loop. Looking back at Sir Duke's loop - B-Fm-E-[C#m-F#] - with this bundle system, we see the medial E chord as a destination, as it doesn't set up the C#m, and our incoming chord bundle is a signpost, as the F# sets up the B.

[@Jaspy524]

Yeah, exactly. The idea being that bundles don’t necessarily have to throw off this model of analysis at all, instead occurring as a natural part of it, because, well, they happen. The big problem then occurs with static or minimal harmonic motion. If it’s the same chord, is it set up? Or is it weak motion? (If it’s set up, it has a better effect within the rest of the analysis. It doesn’t make sense to break a connection for staying on the same chord) In that same vein, do chords with the same root, within similar harmonic functions, count as different chords? (Vsus4 to V, for example) I’d say no, they’d be the same chord, unless the variation drastically changes the harmonic function of the chord.

[@evanmaier2551]

My name is 12tone and I did a music theory, welcome to my ted talk.

[@joellindon2225]

that thumbnail is huge!

[@delriobookclub224]

I understand this...

[@1oolabob]

For my own stuff, I usually stick with two chords and embellishments of just the two chords...until that fateful day when I used four chords in one song. Or 4-1/2 chords. I'm not really sure. The song is a syncopated 6 beats. The syncopation makes it feel like 2 sets of 3-1/2 beats, but if can ignore the accents and count evenly, it's 6 beats, not 2 x 3.5=7 It starts on G major (for "3-1/2" beats) then F major for the same number of beats, then D minor to C major in the same rhythmic duration. The ending point at C only leads back to G, so I tried mixing it up; the next time though the cycle, I go from F to C, then end the cycle with a D major. As chord 3 of this loop, the D is minor, but as chord 4, it sounds to me like a better resolution as the major version of my D chord. The movement has one kind of feel in the first cycle and a different feel in the second cycle just by varying a third in one chord. To me, the main reason to learn any music theory at all is to get a feel for the tools and how to use them, rather than just knowing how every other musician has used those same tools. And this is The Best music theory channel on KZbin, because you teach me how to own the tools. Subscribed, and continuing to like.

[@noahfirtel5971]

Sweet Home Alabama kind of brings up a question that I feel like is sort of getting taken for granted. Is a four chord loop inherently the same as a four bar loop? And frankly I don't think it is. Having said that, I still think your and Tagg's models can apply, but in different ways. Instead of applying Tagg's model to individual chords, what if it was used to demarcate sections within a progression regardless of the number of chords that it has. Taking the actual chord progression in Sir Duke as an example, we can take the bar of C#m-F# and rather than try and figure out which of those chords is the Incoming Chord, we can instead just look at the bar itself as the incoming section of the loop. Speaking more broadly, the four sections don't need to even be the same lengths, I don't have any examples on hand, but in theory if you're just talking about Tonic, Outgoing, Medial, and Incoming sections, there's nothing that locks them into being a single chord over a single measure each. Four Chord Loops make for great examples because of their even lengths and the fact that each chord is distinct, but it seems like it has broader applicability. Similarly, your functional approach to Islands, Connectors, Signposts, and Destinations can be applied outside of four chord loops to longer or shorter loops. The type of loops wouldn't really work, they're fairly specific to four chord loops, but the underlying ideas would work really well for analyzing lots of different pieces, something like Giant Steps comes to mind. So yeah, these different approaches seem really interesting and potentially have a lot of applicability outside of four chord loops.

[@thomaspellett1565]

Congrats on the vsauce partnership

[@ahuddleofpenguins4842]

Hey what about chord loop with a signpost on the incoming? are there examples of that? there weren't any in the vid. edit: example i think fm - Cm- Bb7 - Gb

[@freesk8]

Here is an idea for a video for ya: analyze the chord progression in Pachelbel's Canon in D from the perspective you mention in this video! Just an idea. Classic chord progression! And it finds it's way in to some pop songs, I think! :)

[@MidnightSt]

Sweet home alabama, that GG... you need to look at it in the context of vocals/melody, it's a... I call them "synchronization chords"? Repeats the same harmony with different melody note to make the... scale/harmony change more obvious and clearer than if the melody note fell into only the sustain of the chord... Sorry about my terminology, all I know about formal music theory is just youtube videos O:-)