My Disagreements with IF:Gathering, John MacArthur & Beth Moore | Ep 383

First, we discuss recent comments made by John MacArthur about religious freedom. Is it right to fight for the religious liberty of those who hate you? Then, we briefly address Beth Moore leaving the Southern Baptist Convention. She's been a controversial figure in the SBC for some time, and it seems they will be parting ways. And, it was disappointing to see elements of critical race theory and other aspects of leftist social justice creeping into IF:Gathering, a conference for Christian women.
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Past Episodes Mentioned:
Ep 381: Glennon Doyle's Gospel vs. the Real Gospel apple.co/3rAUF3Q
Ep 292: Trump vs. Biden 2020: Religious Liberty | Guest: John MacArthur apple.co/2N5vMON
Ep 282: Exposing & Opposing Social Justice Theology | Guest: Dr. Voddie Baucham apple.co/3rCUBAx
Ep 275: Critical Theory: A Disastrous, Unbiblical Worldview | Guest: Dr. Neil Shenvi apple.co/2PMXoZT
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[@lsmcdade]

I am a 61 year old Pastor and I am continually amazed at your wisdom and discernment beyond your years. You also share scripture and your opinions with a humility that honors the Lord.

[@elephanttrunk5372]

So now we have trumps own lawyer say all the so called election fraud was actually a big conservative LIe.

[@harlandfriendofgod6108]

Your titles are misleading. Who was the entity who mislead in the Bible (was a archangel....)

[@dittohead7044]

All of my grandparents came to the US following religious persecution. I know it’s worth fighting for

[@sungyun1]

Amen and amen Also, so many immigrants get saved here bc of the religious freedom

[@cynthiawright5598]

THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS THE ONLY KINGDOM WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

[@kimberleerivera1483]

Yes! And that I is what happens when we tell people GOD'S GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST!!! We are fighting for The Kingdom of GOD, against all other false religions!

[@GregoryRoberge-h9g]

@@cynthiawright5598yes!! Big difference

[@janettebiggs4550]

What irritates me when there is a separate woman’s and men’s class and the women do a Beth Moore study and the men study a book in the Bible. Why are the woman not studying the Bible like the men? Why do women need self help books instead the simply the Bible?

[@waylonoconner9121]

What’s the real problem with this As long as both sit under a gospel centered, theologically sound pastor/preacher? My church does a multitude of types of learning. We obviously have Sunday services where the entire congregation is fed. Then we have bible study where those who want to learn together can do so, men and women. But we also have gender based studies, men’s groups and woman’s groups. The more people are willing to sit and learn together the better.

[@laurenkuo5320]

That's why I am in BSF

[@rebalspirit]

As a relatively new christian (saved at 50 and now 61), I lead a women's BIBLE study, and have for three years, in my church. We are currently on chapter 11 in the letter to the Hebrews. You couldn't pay me ever to use most of the study materials written for women. We are not studying God's word to feel good. We are studying his word to know him that we would be renewed in our minds, transformed in our hearts, love him in our obedience and enjoy Him forever. Take heart. There are faithful women leaders in their local churches who are faithfully leading their sisters through God's word. By summer I hope to move us into an intensive year or two year long study through the Psalms. I personally abhor salt and pepper topical studies. His whole counsel taken as meat in context is all I want and need. And my sisters treasure this as well. To know God more deeply and be transformed by the renewing of their minds.

[@jimmy6501]

@@laurenkuo5320 Lauren, you need to dig deeper into how BSF has been evolving in the wrong direction for many years. Any organization as large as the "corporation" of BSF, surely has a huge target on its back that Satan is surely devoting a lot of his "time" to hitting that target. Yes, BSF has done so much good for thousands of folks throughout the years. However, from my experience with many folks who have attended BSF for years, so many of them seem to approach their studies like a class in any school or college - they are given assignments, they complete them, then discuss them in small groups then as part of the whole group. No doubt very beneficial, however, in my opinion, this "hoop jumping" can sometimes overshadow the true objective of studying the Bible. If at all possible, I believe church-based Bible studies should be the number one choice when seeking a Bible study.

[@josefernandez-leon4024]

Solid an argument as I have ever heard. Books in the middle between the Bible and the person only detract, not add.

[@pkshere0]

Watching Beth Moore change through the years....sad...at one time her teachings were Biblically sound... Just remember...there's only one race, the human race. 99.9% of our DNA is the same. Multiple ethnicities but one race! As Latina, Cree, Jew, multi-ethnic pale person I embrace my ethnicities! But ultimately I am a beloved daughter of the King!

[@charliejohn1]

"BEAUTIFUL" 🙏

[@Kelly-wj7xd]

I am multi ethnic too messianic Jew as well. God bless you sister. 🙏

[@awestlaker]

shallow

[@lindickison3055]

Multi-ethnic pale person😊 covers a lot of us!!! MEPPs?

[@nomames7123]

That is such an ignorant statement to say, if we are all the same then how come the US government has compensated natives Jews Japanese Irish Italian people with reparations but not Foundational Black Americans?

[@laurieanne777]

Don’t follow teachers or preachers Only Follow Jesus

[@carolynanders2677]

AMEN!

[@byronscherer4986]

Where is that in scripture? Suggest reading Romans 10: 15 thru 21. Thanks

[@hopelovegood8131]

@@byronscherer4986 I think maybe she means that above ALL follow God. Because sometimes you can exalt teachers and their beliefs above God. But yeah,.we should follow and listen to biblical pastors, however essentially we are sheep of God.

[@lorinelson7639]

THERE ARE EXCELLENT TEACHERS AND PREACHERS I RECOMMEN BILL JOHNSON STEVE FURICK TD JAKES LARRY RANDOLPH TO START WITH THEY KNOW THE WORD

[@byronscherer4986]

@@lorinelson7639 one better learn an know the word when listening to these PR for that matter any minister teacher. I always tell folks check behind me. The false American Gospel that some are preaching today is a sure ticket to an eternal separation from God. That prosperity doctrine is one such example. That does not match up with the scripture of Jesus of ISA 53. In that junk the only prospering is the one at the top of the pyramid.

[@lillianzambrana6027]

If you call yourself a Christian and are not loving God and your neighbors, but have jumped on the wagon of "racial justice" you simple don't have a clue in who God is and what he says. As a 58 yr old Latin women. I don't need your sympathy because I'm not white. I need your love and prayers. I need your brother and sister hood. I need your unity to win souls for Christ. I don't need the government to tell me that I am suppress because my skin isn't white, you can keep that lie to yourself. Agree on your statement Allie.

[@hortondlfn1994]

PREACH IT, LILLIAN! What a refreshing comment. You've got my prayer support, sister!

[@2mexpesos]

yes!!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 as a born Mexican now US citizen I refuse to let others to tell me how "privilege" they think they are because of their skin color and how "oppressed" I should feel. God bless you and yours! 💕

[@lillianzambrana6027]

@@2mexpesos Good for you 👍

[@lillianzambrana6027]

@@hortondlfn1994 Thank you. God bless you

[@KM-zn3lx]

Thanks Lillian!

[@wandapeterson7421]

I think we all long to shed our “lukewarmness”

[@cherileerogers1650]

Then do it!

[@Monpris0590]

I appreciate this podcast, society would identify me a brown person but yet since becoming a Christian never saw myself as that but as sinner save as grace. :)

[@magnoliarose5910]

Great point. I will remember this to use later.

[@lisabice5368]

Amen, Sister

[@EllieDyk]

✨Imago Dei✨

[@aszurejackson8251]

M

[@beagrateful431]

I am also a sinner saved by grace!

[@pedinurse1]

Allie this is my first time listening to you and I must say what an inspiration you are. Articulate, exact in speech, sticking to the point and bringing clarity to very difficult topics are some of your great qualities. Thank you for clarifying all this craziness. You were great to listen to. Looking forward to more podcasts.

[@everyonehasanopinion00000]

I felt a tinge of relief when Beth Moore left the SBC. She is a hyper emotional and self promoting teacher. Women in our SBC church were doing her studies years ago and, although the workbooks were excellent, the DVDs were cringy for me. I would look around the room and wonder if anyone else found her extremely off putting and they didn't seem to. So I went with it assuming it was just me. She communicates more like Joyce Meyer and less like a serious teacher.

[@randibass7558]

Amen to all you observe!

[@mrs.t7351]

I agree. She always bothered me, too.

[@kathierouse6046]

It's unfortunate that too many women strongly lack discernment of the false teachers. Pastors need to teach their congregations discernment and how to study their Bible like Bereans. However, there is one ladies Bible study leader who is solid. Her name is Susan Heck. Her husband, who was a pastor, passed away this past year. She is highly recommended. 😊👍

[@romandaigle455]

She’s a total heretic

[@romandaigle455]

@@kathierouse6046Heck is great! Bible and Bible alone

[@ncchia]

I'd ask him his definition of religious liberty given his fight with California trying to shut him down. Just saying...

[@Lucas747G]

I think that depends on the definition. It seems like he defines the context as, Christians fighting and working for people of other religions to have the liberty to live their religion. I think he's right to dislike that. But, I'm guessing he would advocate that Christians be free to worship. Because every Christian facing persecution would pray for the persecution to end.

[@tedkijeski339]

@@Lucas747G So, Christians should have the freedom to worship -- but nobody else should have that same freedom?

[@tylerw8216]

@@tedkijeski339 That's not what Lucas said.....and Nicole completely missed it

[@ncchia]

@@Lucas747G ah, that makes more sense to me. Thank you for the clarification.

[@Lucas747G]

@@tedkijeski339 no, it means we shouldn't be helping them gain rights to commit idolatry. However we should fight for our own right to worship God. If others can do that too, fine. I don't think the government should force conversion. But I'm not gonna work for other religions either.

[@BlaxicanSFV]

Compelling argument but I agree with Pastor MacArthur here. Your premise is defending false religions. John's point is governmental religious liberty only helps these false religions prosper. True Christianity will ALWAYS be attacked regardless of legislation. The father of lies, the god of this world, will fight to suppress the truth, period.

[@codejunkie6300]

True, but if we don't fight for Religious Liberty, Christians will lose their freedom

[@involuntaryathlete5874]

aaa

[@SteveWV]

@@codejunkie6300 I fight and support my right under the eyes of God to worship and serve him and spread the gospel the First Amendment is a blessing that was given by God for Christians.

[@jc9240]

Nothing new under the Sun! We have enough history and wisdom to draw from to survive this perfect storm in a "Tea Cup"

[@BlaxicanSFV]

I agree with the 1st amendment as a fundamental American right and we are blessed to be covered by it. However, we are called to spread the gospel with or without government support. Even it means jail. John's point is that the net positive for fighting for "religious freedom" in the worldly sense is zero. It only gives more power to the false religions. Christians are called to do God's work no matter what the law says anyway. Yes we vote. Yes we have to debate the issues. But ultimately it's about scripture and promoting the gospel, which will be suppressed by the world regardless of the law.

[@sdh4557]

I wish Beth Moore had left the SBC before she caused a significant amount of damage.

[@truthmatters7997]

@David Logan the FALSE prophets are spewing their lies across the country. They will be held ACCOUNTABLE to a higher standard as their influence is worldwide airing to many unsuspecting believers.

[@elephanttrunk5372]

It seems conservative evangelicalism is nothing more than conservative ideology with a few bible verses thrown in to make it look Christian.

[@PoetiqueMs]

I wonder if the SBC failed in not disciplining her. Maybe they did, I don't know, but since she remained affiliated with them, I assume they didn't .

[@digitalwasabi2]

@@elephanttrunk5372 We heard you the last 5 times you pasted that.

[@tracyrivera69]

In regards to religious liberty didn’t God gives us the freedom to choose Him or to deny Him?

[@hopelovegood8131]

@@rstraus29 we do. Wdym? You have the CHOICE weather to serve God or not. The CHOICE weather to worship Him or not.

[@roxiespell5057]

God gave us freedom of choice, we can choose Him or hell.

[@ggpmf]

This year has shown me more than ever to guard my heart...so many who are stronger, more knowledgeable than I will ever be and I trusted have veered off their original stand...and some have turned out to be heretics. It's another area of upheaval to add to this past year...

[@danjohnson887]

I learned a lesson when I observed a very exclusive and expensive private school in Columbus Ohio (Columbus School for Girls) when they focused on "religious freedom". There was an islamic club, buddhist club, humanist club, and even a satanic club, but Christian clubs were not allowed. This was a fact (at the time) which was approximately 18 years ago, right after 9/11. It won't matter whether "religious freedom" is allowed/ tolerated or not: Christians need not apply.

[@cat-bg3rv]

Wow! Did you say 18 years ago?

[@anitalee9097]

I love Kay Arthur’s Precept Upon Precept studies. They are in-depth studies of the books of the Bible and include a couple topical studies.

[@RaptureReadyPam]

Do you really think America is going to be blessed with how we have rejected our Savior? I think John MacArthur just understands our prayer and sharing the Gospel is what God calls us to do. I heard his sermon and I think you are just missing the point MacArthur was making. Our fight is for the Gospel. He didn’t tell us not to vote. He did tell us to pray for our rulers.

[@hopelovegood8131]

I truly do not think America will be blessed. Neither do I want it to. we have murdered 60+ million unborn children in the name of "choice" However, God is STILL having mercy and STILL.blessing us in one way or the other.

[@susantulleynehus5054]

Ally, you are a treasure! You are certainly seeking the Lord shown by your wisdom that expands your years. Keep speaking His Truth and you will always have listeners.

[@lightningdude2005]

When religious liberty is taken with the government's interpretation of "separation of church and state" and the fact that the government is run by fallen humans, we see that MacArthur is correct, the false religions are permitted to flourish while Christianity is being suppressed. With man's natural rejection of God, it stands to reason that the government will support (even if not promoting) the religions and beliefs that oppose the one true God and his goodness.

[@charliejohn1]

Well said. 👍

[@AllieBethStuckey]

Good points made. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@BlaxicanSFV]

Amen!

[@marvetheman]

@@grantsmythe8625 Yes it is. There is story after story about high school kids forbidden to use the Bible as a reference book or mentioning the Christian God in valedictorian speeches. We have Christian bakers convictions ignored and Biblical teaching being called hate speech. Is Christianity illegal? No, but politics follows culture and if we wait to fight back when it is illegal it is far too late.

[@eternalrealist2836]

I don't see how not supporting religious liberty (or labeling such as idolatry), will lessen or alter that fact. Will not fighting for religious liberty suppress false religions? We have an enemy who will always seek to persecute us. We are to be salt and light. Salt is meant to slow corruption and decay, to preserve. We are to be about the business of caring for our neighbor, and our brother. Religious liberty allows us to make a more substantial impact to that end. The fact that our current state of government is so corrupt does not mean we give over our pursuit of righteous government.

[@brendawallgren8354]

I agree with you 100% on the religious liberty topic. We are so blessed to have the freedom to evangelize out in the open without the worry of persecution like that in many other countries. I will fight for religious liberty in this country as long as I possibly can.

[@juliedeane4327]

Amen. Agree.

[@CLProServicesLLC]

What John Macarthur said is very simple. Jesus said He would build His church. "...I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." ~Matthew 16:18 It doesn't matter what the laws are in this country or any other country. Jesus WILL build His church. As for his comments on the American Revolution... he said Christians are not to be revolutionaries. We are to live quiet, peaceable lives, submitting to governing authorities, and proclaiming the gospel... not killing leaders in power. The only exception is if the government commands us to do/not do something that contradicts God's word. Even then we don't overthrow them... we obey God and take the consequences of man's immorality.

[@annbrucepineda8093]

I was taught that ours was not a Revolution but a War for Independence. That was In a class on international relations.

[@CLProServicesLLC]

@@annbrucepineda8093 You can call it whatever you like... it wasn't Christian, though.

[@claudiabailey5302]

Allie you are allowed to disagree just because someone has been in ministry for over 50 years. Nobody gets it right all the time and nobody speaks truth with every word. This does not lessen the effect this man has had in preaching the word but he is not the fountain of all truth.

[@lavenderflowers1075]

I agree with pastor macarthur on this one. There's no such thing as religious freedom because there's only one true way to God; and that's through Jesus. All the other 'religions' are just an abberation of true faith in Christ and should not be promoted. Especially because their teachings are not compatible with life and are very harmful to their adherents.

[@hondotheology]

religious freedom hurts the church. it allows us to wander all over the spectrum to false doctrine while persecution purifies the church. religious freedom is nice but it doesn't help anything

[@stevemyntti5187]

Religious freedom means that there wiill be no state religion to which everyone must belong. I cannot imagine any Christian not supporting religious freedom

[@elephanttrunk5372]

It seems conservative evangelicalism is nothing more than conservative ideology with a few bible verses thrown in to make it look Christian.

[@digitalwasabi2]

@@stevemyntti5187 I agree. It borders on idiocy.

[@yuribezmenov7109]

@@elephanttrunk5372 You should paste this reply another dozen times and maybe then I will read it.

[@melreadjoy17]

Yes we all need to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. It does not matter what we look like.

[@dachickenman]

The Voice of Martyrs often asks people to pray for religious liberty in countries where it is restricted. Yes, the Kingdom will advance in any case, but does state restriction not make a difference?

[@debbiegeshem687]

Very inoffensively/compellingly expressed. Thank you for putting this info out here. The church really needs this message right now. LIKE, SHARE!

[@renearosser1466]

The Bible showing that Christians were persecuted doesn’t mean we can’t fight for the right under our government. Bible times they didn’t elect representatives or have rights. Don’t confuse descriptive as prescriptive. If we have the ability to have protective laws why would anyone oppose that ? Why pray for persecuted Christians in other countries if that’s the way it’s supposed to be?

[@Lucas747G]

They did have representatives, and they had rights as citizens. Obviously not the same thing as today. But they never made a move for government still.

[@sharonsmith9571]

Because praying is an act of intercession to the Most High God on the behalf of others. Perhaps the concessions in coming to an alliance in government are concessions we should be unwilling to partake in. Praying for persecuted Christians to God nothing to do really with religious Liberty. Only God himself can bring true religious Liberty to anyone.

[@renearosser1466]

@@Lucas747G no they didn’t. The Jews had no votes for which romans were ruling over them.

[@renearosser1466]

@@Ben-ue4gh how awful. God has I trusted us with much and we will be responsible for how we take care of it. We have a form of government which God raised up that gave us religious liberties. Why would you not fight for it. You can spread the gospel too. You can do both. At the times the gospels were written they wrote under the culture they lived in too. Little freedom. That’s descriptive not prescriptive. Deep state church brainwashing.

[@renearosser1466]

@@sharonsmith9571 my point on the persecuted Christians is that we pray for their safety and yet think they can’t fight for their safety. How ridiculous.

[@jdschrock945]

When did Jesus and the disciples fight for their rights?

[@Jungleman-dq9kz]

When Paul demanded an audience in Rome.

[@boopsnootandboogie]

This is what happens when Nationalism invades Christianity. It's happening in America and it's very concerning.

[@terrenceorourke6833]

Christianity is in opposition to the "world". When you make an alliance with darkness to create space for light, you by default create space for darkness. We are not about securing space for all forms of darkness.

[@madcow9421]

Jesus... confronted for picking wheat on the sabbath

[@whowhatwherewhy1434]

The Jews had religious freedoms under Rome...which was famous for allowing its conquered nations to practice as they wanted.

[@Mama1Marie]

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 (NASB1995)

[@greengateacreshomestead4324]

I think we got Christianity so so wrong. I Am glad American Christians will wake up from their own god of safety and comfort. And soon will count persecuted as joy and not a thing to despair.

[@lynnpowell1601]

Very true. The Bible doesn't tell us we will always be comfortable. Jesus said, " You will have trouble in this world. Take heart I've overcome the world". We just have to keep standing on our faith in Christ. Sometimes that's all we can do.

[@scottk7887]

Spot on Allie Beth, you are a good Biblical and critical thinker. John needs to study Rutherford and the Puritans in more depth. I also disagree with some of his hermeneutics and his view of Baptism and eschatology as well. Keep on thinking and synthesizing! You have a beautiful gift of a fabulous mind from God. Thank you for speaking out!!!

[@charleshastings8678]

Religious freedom means free to practice what ever religion you want to, Hinduism, Islam, etc.

[@janetsmith8566]

The length of time a person has been a famous preacher has no bearing on their standing before God.

[@davidpatton7298]

What a shocker that Beth Moore helps deconstruct the SBC, and then moves along. Too bad Criswell wasn't here for her to meet a solid rock ,Biblical pastor.

[@kellyberggren2007]

I am shocked John McCarther doesn't believe in fighting for religious freedom....He stayed open during the pandemic. Isn't that fighting for religious freedom.

[@laurenkuo5320]

I think what he is saying is that if Christians focus on proclaiming the truth of the Gospel, all the evil we see will disappear. A leader who promotes abortion is a leader who needs the Gospel that has the power to convert him and thus ending his promotion of abortion. We have had religious freedom and what has that contributed to a person's salvation?

[@cappylover192]

You should get Alisa Childers or Melissa Dougherty on your podcast!!

[@head19821]

Alisa was on the podcast recently check it out

[@cappylover192]

@@head19821 awesome thanks.

[@marcusisrealious1255]

AGREED!!

[@gethsemanedew8844]

Would be delighted to hear Allie’s thoughts on Melissa’s latest bible study skit. Though it was meant as comedy / satire, it does seem eerily realistic.

[@marcusisrealious1255]

@@gethsemanedew8844 I seen that 1 about the Bible study lol ... Yeah it reminds me of an experience I had recently with a group

[@jonrachy]

"ok, I don't really have that much to say on that topic" (After about 2 million words on the subject... ) Ha ha, we love you though. 🙂

[@mseadog]

Considering the amount of wealth that Beth Moore has amassed, I think it’s reasonable to question her motives for leaving; she stands to further increase her wealth by moving more “mainstream.”

[@mikehardy4474]

John MacArthur has more $ than Beth Moore,3 million $ homes,just saying.I can’t stand John,his pride blasphemy of spirit-filled churches.I don’t watch Beth either.

[@ExNihiloArchitecture]

The fact that we have choice is evidence that religious liberty is something worth pursuing.

[@scarlettd.6605]

I’m a member of John MacArthur’s church. I find that that he is the most knowledgeable theologian in the country today. I understand your views, he’s just never done anything but guide my life in only the greatest way. Without him introducing me to the faith I’d not know Jesus Christ. Praise God❤️

[@domsdomsdomsdoms]

macarthur’s thoughts on religious freedom is not so much rebuking the church for depending on it too much as he is preparing the church for when it is stripped away. like it doesn’t change anything in God’s kingdom so be prepared for that time and keep holding fast to Christ if/when it happens.

[@feemosky]

I hold this Truth " upon this rock will I build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail" CRT, Woke etc will not prevail.

[@aadschram5877]

Yeah, protestantism has no central authority that can have the last word in disputes.

[@juliedeane4327]

We are to build God's kingdom while on this earth. That is our mission. To spread the gospel. To bring in lost souls for God's eternal kingdom. Why would we not take advantage of the freedom to do this freely while we can? We are to work as long as it is light because the darkness will come when we no longer can work. We don't give up our right to do God's work.

[@qwnpngwn672]

Great job on this podcast Allie, you are creating very valuable content and it has gotten me thinking in a more Christian way after years of faith troubles (and I still struggle deeply today) but your work helps me understand things a lot better

[@AdelinaShamoon-Ph.D]

"You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you" (Deut.6:14). "You shall not learn to imitate the detestable ways of those nations" (Deut.18:9).

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

Those are my arguments for why those in the faith cannot do yoga. Yet too many try justifying it.

[@readthebibleinayearwithCarl]

It's funny JM fought SO hard to stay open during the "lockdowns" -- That IS fighting for religious liberty. SO... I wonder about the context.

[@sjarrett1606]

I wonder, did JM fight hard to stay open so he could preach the gospel under his first amendment rights or did he fight to stay open so every church could stay open and preach as they want? ... Is there a difference between religious liberty and the right to religious freedom of speech?

[@shaolingmaster1]

@@sjarrett1606 if you don't follow JMac or his ministry you might not understand his position... He is referring more to the fact that historically the Gospel and the Christian faith has never needed either had had much religious liberties...it stills strive in the midst of hardship.

[@CLProServicesLLC]

John MacArthur wasn't "fighting for religious liberty". He was obeying a biblical teaching. He was obeying God's word. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. ~Hebrews 10: 23-25 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him-a threefold cord is not quickly broken. ~Ecclesiastes 4:9-12

[@elephanttrunk5372]

It seems conservative evangelicalism is nothing more than conservative ideology with a few bible verses thrown in to make it look Christian.

[@EllieDyk]

@@elephanttrunk5372 which part of this triggered that comment?

[@raymartinezjr7235]

As a Christian I thank Jesus for the wisdom he puts upon me. And with that he shows us NOT to go by our FEELING other than to keep his Word that comes from the Holy Bible.

[@richardthenryvideos]

Wish Moore would have left 20 years ago

[@truthmatters7997]

Many are leaving the mainstream churches these days! Hypocrisy at great heights! The turning away from the gospels and Jesus' teachings is astounding, along with the evangelical sympathizing with Qanon and their conspiracy theories(aka LIES). They've lost any credibility in their support of the man who is the very ANTITHESIS of Jesus and His Teachings....and the world recognizing that... How about that IDOL present at the last CPAC Qtrumplican rally? Nice likeness huh.. Beware of FALSE prophets as their lies are dangerous AND Blasphemous.

[@luzgenao8492]

There could be a millstone waiting for her.

[@katiewhiteman5960]

Thank you Allie Beth for your commentary on the IF Gathering. If people are interested you can find well written articles about the problems with this conference since it's beginning.

[@roniastevens91]

Can you post some links to those articles please? I want to understand more about it.

[@solidtruthministries]

Can you share the links to the If Gathering. I've had a stirring in my spirit for a long time for that conference.

[@katiewhiteman5960]

@@solidtruthministries If you google problems or false teachers and IF Conference you can find them. Light House Trails has dome good information on this too.

[@kb-mt8vr]

Thank you Allie for not giving an opinion like MacArthur, but reviewing how HIStory shows God getting the glory. There is a time and place for everything and the heart is deceitful. God’s plan is in His own timing and way.

[@keviyates2603]

This my take, I grew up in the 50s and 60s, what we called Relgion then is what we call Denominations today So if you wanted to be Catholic, Presbetarian, Lutheran, Methodist, Quaker, Amish, Mennonite, and so on you could freely choose whatever Christian Relgion (denomination) you wanted to. Before the Independence of America, Great Britain was ordering the State to worship Catholicism only, check this out. That is why this new country wanted freedom to choose the Relgion/Denomination in Christian worship the way we want.

[@johnflorio3052]

In the UK the Catholic Church was persecuted badly. What the Crown demanded was Church of England membership.

[@byronscherer4986]

@@johnflorio3052 that's right which is today's Episcopalians.

[@bluehorsey1271]

Wow...Alliecat...you really said it with truth and grace and love...yet stood firm on the foundations of Scripture for your argument on racism and crt...I always learn so much. Sometimes hard to remember it all...cuz girl you talk fast! LoL Always blessed and grateful that you are fighting the good fight...so thank you! Much love from the Pacific NW!

[@dsanders74]

Perhaps you should bring John Mac back onto the show to explain what he meant. I believe he didn't think this deeply about the comment he made.

[@mktay2067]

I think he thought deeply I just don't think we are understanding his view due to focusing on the wrong aspect.

[@Usersh6480]

You are likely right in that he didn't think thru the ramifications of what he said, however.... he holds himself as a leader in the church, and is held to a higher standard and level of judgment because of the sway he holds. To make this statement and NOT think it thru was a grave lapse of judgment on his part and looks incredibly hypocritical as he JUST appealed to the very laws of religious freedom he now refuses to protect. This badly damages his testimony.

[@katherineb.3140]

Dwayne I agree 👍

[@thinkingman07]

Well said! The freedoms in this country are the result of the battle for conscience. To think that they don't matter or that God does not need them is to fail to see how the struggle to follow God produced them. God may not need them, but they exist because those who need God found this was a just and equitable way to order society.

[@Shootingstarcomics]

I listened to two MacArthur sermons years ago because he was recommended by a trusted ministry and both times he was telling the listeners what people in the bible were thinking when they said or did something so he could twist their words and actions to make his point. The first sermon I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he said he wasn’t sure that’s what they were thinking but thought it was probable, but it changed the motives of the characters in a slanderous way. The second time he just flat out said ‘these people were thinking this.’ I haven’t listened to him since.

[@pennyschultz3108]

I agree. I have his study Bible and one of his notes says “this particular verse shouldn’t say this but rather this instead”. Umm no it says what it says. He throws his opinion in as fact way too often.

[@wolves201]

@@pennyschultz3108 I found this as well.

[@theresamoore7623]

I think this is where the church has gone horribly wrong. We are really not as far from Rome as many may think. Teaching "pastor" = paraphrase of scripture, a la the message "bible". The sermon as we know it today can not be found in the pages of the NT. It is pagan practice promoted by early Rome. Believers are called to reason "together" from the scriptures, not rely solely on the interpretation of a group of men. Pastors are nothing more than slightly reformed catholic priests.

[@Sno2Getti]

You are both right: you, as a private Christian citizen, can stand up to fight for the right in social issus. But Johnny Mac is a pastor and is concerned with God's glory first. He is saying that our calling is primarily to glorify God and political favor should never enter into it. Keep the divide and remember it. Religious freedom is kinda beside the point.

[@jaycole2109]

God, in His mercy, grace, patience, and Ultimate Authority gave mankind the ability to choose to go against His laws. He gave us freedom to reject Jesus and to worship other gods and ourselves.

[@A_Pie323]

I totally understand where John MacArthur is coming from. BUT, I am so very grateful I live in a country that allows me to openly believe and worship in the Lord. Where owning and reading a Bible isn’t illegal, where Bible studies don’t need to meet in secret, for fear of persecution. He is right in the sense that a country doesn’t need religious Liberty in order to have Christianity flourish, but it also doesn’t hurt to have religious freedom as well.

[@rebalspirit]

I like listening to your perspective on secondary issues, Allie. Regarding your arguments about the good of religious liberty, there is one point in your argument that I think you are missing. The idea that Christian institutions have done much good may be true. However, I see two problems in our argument. First, the right to speak out against evil is not the same thing as actually doing something against evil. The call of the gospel is to each individual Christian to go into the world and DO two things - spread the good news and make disciples. This is not the responsibility of institutions but the individual responsibility of every Christian person. One can speak the truth of the gospel without wandering into the weeds of the social evils and speaking against the culture's embracing of protected sins. The good news is simply to tell people they are sinners by nature and that they cannot save themselves but that God has provided a Savior who will create in them new hearts that brings repentance and therefore restoration with their Creator. The Holy Spirit, through the Word, will sanctify each regenerated person. The protection of certain sins in our culture cannot be overcome by our words, but rather by the Word of God. The loss of religious liberty for institutions (and individuals) will not make or break the spreading of the gospel nor the individual sanctification of each christian. This leads to my second point which is that while much good has been done through many religious institutions, there is one great evil that has also come out of them. Their liberty to exist and work has lulled many North American Christians to sleep. The individualism of our country has allowed many decent Christians to think that financially supporting Christian institutions engaged in fighting oppression, feeding the hungry, caring for orphans and widows is all that is required of us. We personally don't need to adopt if it's inconvenient to us, especially if it hampers our pursuits to gain wealth or causes us to become financially insecure. First and second century Christians were rescuing newborn infants left outside to die without considering the cost to themselves and without the aide of some Christian adoption agency. Individual Christians were rescuing individuals from oppression, one person at a time by one faithful Christian at a time. By institutionalizing these acts of mercy and grace we have sent a message to individual Christians that their personal obedience to do these acts of mercy is not required personally. They can just send a check and feel good about themselves for aiding "those more gifted than themselves." While it is true that many individual Christians do take the personal responsibility to address oppression, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, care for orphans and widows, many, far too many do not. Carrying that cross is too financially burdensome and interferes with their personal pursuits. Why is the Christian faith declining in North America? Because we rely on institutions to do for us what we are supposed to be doing individually. We don't trust God to help us carry the burden and instead just want to speak about it and send a check when we have a few dollars left over after we've gone after what we feel we are entitled to. Many refuse to consider yet alone shoulder the burden of the cost of following Christ. The best thing that could happen in North America is the loss of religious liberty that would unveil to the body of Christ who is truly willing to consider the cost, pick up their cross and follow our savior. My final thought is that I see the rampant sin and abandonment of the true gospel by many professing Christians as God's judgment and discipline of either slothful or false Christians. We don't need Christian institutions to be obedient to God's command to be holy. We need to examine our hearts, consider the cost and trust Christ that the burden of holiness is indeed light and will be our glory forever.

[@SmithFamilyFarmstead]

Hasn't he already fought for religious freedom in california???

[@Faith_Over_Fear_OG]

That's what I was thinking too. Did he not refuse to shut down his church's worship services? Making an idol for wanting religious freedom? I understand the opinion and the Bible verse but his actions went against the government we are also told to obey. Wasn't this country founded on Judeo-Christian values in the first place??? The government has been encroaching on the Constitution and our freedoms for a long time now. Someone who has no knowledge of Christ or is a baby Christian may not understand this and perceive it as religious freedom is an idol. I hope that no one will be led astray by this. I understand that we are living in the last days and now is the time to spread the Word more than ever. There are also points in the Bible where we are told to give to the government what belongs to the government and give to God what is God's. As long as we aren't using the Truth about God for our personal gain, I don't see idolatry happening. I believe that no matter what, God will make a way where there seems to be no way. In the end, we are to be in the world but not of the world. If this doesn't make sense, I apologize. I have an awful toothache at the moment. Perhaps I'm not the right person to be commenting on this.

[@nicolcacola]

Not for religious freedon he hasn't. He isn't trying to change laws, or fight for every religions right to worship, merely doing what God allows with his own church.

[@a.medina4338]

Exactly! It’s nonsensical to say you’re against religious liberty when it’s the very reason your own church is open

[@carolberubee]

@@Faith_Over_Fear_OG I understood JMac to say that religious freedom = pluralism. Christianity is the only true faith and all else is religious idolatry; therefore, the promotion of religious freedom (i.e., let all religions flourish and we, the govt., will give them all equal footing) is anti-God.

[@Faith_Over_Fear_OG]

@@carolberubee he kept his church open because of religious freedom. I understand your view so don't misunderstand that. It's just that he literally appears to be in contradiction with himself. I really shouldn't be commenting on this at the moment as I have a incredibly bad toothache and the pain may be too much for me to process clearly.

[@ednamaurer697]

I am an infrequent listener. While my eschatological views are different than Mrs. Stuckey, neither would I fall in line with the dispensationalism of Dr. Macarthur. After saying this, let me say that I view both Mrs. Stuckey and John MacArthur as wonderful fellow evangelicals and Christians. It is interesting how eschatology relates to world view. Mrs. Stuckey has an eschatology and worldview that favors liberty as assisting the expansion of the Gospel as the expansion of the kingdom. John MacArthur (I am guessing) would see the persecuted Church and the deeds of the saints in refusing to deny Christ as the greatest glory of God and the greatest representation of the kingdom. I would agree that the curtailment of liberty, persecution of Christianity, and driving Christianity underground will restrict evangelism, and force Christians to worship God and practice their holiness in a more hidden way. The difference between Mrs. Stuckey and myself is that I can also see MacArthur's point of view... that the bible portrays Christians as the persecuted minority hated by the government. If I understood Mrs. Stuckey, I think I differ more from her worldview. I cannot see liberty as something which promotes the kingdom of God. I favor religious liberty as Mrs. Stuckey, but even if I did not have that liberty, I would choose to worship God as I see best anyway. I see suffering persecution as also the growth of the kingdom of God (as I suspect Dr. MacArthur would).

[@pennyappellatia]

The critical element of religious liberty in the constitution is that congress shall make no law establishing a religion. The pilgrims fled an establishment religion in Britain. Just think how quickly things change. What if an angry Muslim president had a cooperative congress and signed legislation that mandated individual participation in Islam?

[@Crosses3]

Thank you for talking about IF. The women at my church don’t see the questionable topics covered. This conference speaks to emotions not solid doctrine.

[@dedrafter6840]

I absolutely love your sense of reason and your delivery!

[@clb3297]

The Christian's only directive is to spread the Gospel. Once we get side-tracked to welfare and social issues, we lose our focus.

[@Bikutoriaiz]

I’m SO glad you’re talking about this! I can’t wait to hear what you think about it. A few years ago I went to an IF gathering with my local church women’s group because one of the elder’s wives swore by it. Of course, at the time I was no where near the level of spiritual discernment I am at now. I’ve noticed issues with who the IF leaders are that didn’t sit right with me, but couldn’t really 💯 put my finger on why it made me feel slightly off ease. I still have my reservations based off of new clarity I have based on the speakers who lead the conference. So, I’ve been pondering this for a long time! Can’t wait to hear your insight!

[@Mel-so4ou]

Powerful epidsode, Allie! You were especially on fire 🔥🔥🔥during that last segment here. Grateful for you!!

[@stacybeasley9450]

Love that you put a disclaimer on your disagreeing with John MacArthur on some points. We don’t have to agree with all points on one teachers theology on small issues. As long as the fundamentals are correct we all can disagree on little points here and there. Love your interviews!! ❤

[@katiemiller2062]

Amen sister! You are spot on with the whole If Gathering issue. I love going and feel so encouraged learning and worshiping with other Christian women. BUT the race sessions are not ok. I know racism still exists and realize there are who may need to hear this message. But it is wrong to insinuate someone is racist or somehow complicit in racism based on the color of their skin. It is shameful and disappointing to teach people all over the world that someone is guilty of sin based solely on their color, and not on each person’s individual’s characters. THAT is true racism in and of itself. These sweeping generalizations are unbiblical and not at all what the Bible teaches. We are one human race. God loves us all and made each of us in his image- in a beautiful range of colors. God doesn’t care what we look like, but he does care about each and every one of us, regardless of color because we are His!

[@1corinthians139]

Hi Katie, I’m planning on going next month. Can u pls share what part of the IF gathering is bad and suggestions on what to do about it? From what I know it’s to encourage women about what’s happening in the world. Is there a race issue with the IF gathering?

[@katiemiller2062]

@@1corinthians139 I hope what I said didn’t give you second thoughts on going. I truly love most of it and leave feeling uplifted, full of hope, and closer to the Lord. Most of the sessions are great, however, there has been one particular session in the past year or two that seems very crt friendly. I can’t remember exactly what was said last year because I was upset, but it was something about fostering race relations, but it was presented in a way that seemed like white people should be quiet and listen so they can agree to apologize for white society and how the person of color feels based on actual or perceived racism, whether or not the white individual has actually done anything racist. I’m all for having conversations with an individual- person to person, but it’s unfair to place complete blame on one group or race of people over something a few particular individuals have done or how something makes you feel. Before linguistic theft redefined the word racism’s actual definition was: antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity; unfair treatment of people of a particular race in a society, especially to the benefit of people of another race. CRT itself is true racism because it is judging people based solely on the color of their skin rather than on their actions as an individual. I’m sad to see this mentality has infiltrated the IF Gathering, because it is not based on God’s truth found in the Bible. After our sessions were done last year the local organizers asked for feedback so I did share my frustration, although looking back it may have been a more beneficial to have an actual conversation with these women instead. The IF gathering itself is great, too great to miss over one misguided session. I’m not entirely sure, but I think that the local organizers are able to select some of the sessions, so there’s a possibility the If gathering you attend may not include it. I’m already signed up for the IF Gathering next month and am really looking forward to it. Personally, I plan on quietly stepping out when this session comes up, as I’m sure it will. I do hope you go this year, as I’m sure you will enjoy it and get a lot out of it. “May the Lord bless you and keep you; may his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face towards you and give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

[@keltay188]

Religious freedom promotes idolatry as much as free will promotes sin

[@nicholas3354]

Jesus said we are blessed when we are persecuted for His name's sake. in the early fourth century, a deal was struck to end Roman persecution against Christians, but the cost was compromise and corruption, and with the loss of persecution what blessing was lost. Now that Christ was crucified, the idea that humans even desire another religion is an absolutely atrocious insult to our Lord (I'm not blaming individuals for having religions and culture, but corporately it's a disgrace to humanity). If persecution were to pick up, then the Truth of God would be far more obvious, and that would promote Christianity and edify Christians. Under the circumstance it is rightful to allow people their religion and to preach to the saving of their souls... but a circumstance where Christians are so compromised that they look like the world and so we end up with millions of dead (spiritually dead) "woke" folk spreading death and calling it the Gospel (and that's just one example of false Christianity)... this is not ok. If the commies end our religious liberty, that will promote the Gospel. We are in a no-lose situation... "I'm on the wi-i-i-hi-hin... ining side."

[@jessicawestbrook3730]

Very good points!!!

[@GradiorDignus]

Our FREEDOM is found in Christ 😊

[@jeffholm3503]

We have to come to grips with the fact that not one of us, including seasoned theologians, are infallible. I’ve been blessed by JM’s teaching ministry. But I also disagree with his eschatology. He hammers the point that it “makes no sense” at the rapture for the saints to meet the Lord in the air then make a u-turn. Of all the things that are difficult to comprehend throughout scripture this is way down on my list. When your eschatology becomes dogma you become divisive. And when one is dogmatic in one area it spills over to other issues. John has become very abrasive lately. I agree with James White’s analysis of how one’s eschatology affects how we operate in the church as in “escapism vs endurantism”. The meaning should be self evident. No matter our circumstances we do win down here if we are crucified with Christ. We rule and reign with Him in the already but not yet. I hope we can look first to Christ and focus on the essentials of our faith.

[@joethi4981]

Allie is an excellent thinker and teacher. Really good thoughts on this topic.

[@whowhatwherewhy1434]

Paul, in order to continue preaching, fled persecution...fled the absence of religious liberty. Not because pursuing liberty can always be accomplished...or is necessary...but generally we Are not to go out of our way to pursue martyrdom.

[@janellestoermer5479]

As a Christian from Los Angeles, I have seen MacArthur's ministry firsthand, and as such, think John MacArthur is divisive and cruel. Theologically, my only real difference from him is that he is a ceasationalist to the point of majority de-emphasizing anything with the Holy Spirit. By extension, he tells his people how they are and are not allowed to apply Scripture. He doesn't trust the Word of God in the hands of the Holy Spirit in Christians' lives. This is one theological point I disagree with him on, but it has serious ramifications in our relationship with the Lord. I am by no means a charismatic or Pentecostal (though I have friends I respect who are), but I don't believe MacArthur's stand on these issues is biblically-based, and he runs several miles beyond this in denying anything and everything that might remotely be seen as charismatic. Beyond that, he spends all his time making negative and divisive statements about our nation and other believers. As I said, I am a Conservative Christian from Los Angeles, and feel he has created so much division among Christians. I had several friends who attended his school (the Master's College) and they got very weird and cult-like, and some cut me off and felt I was a heretic simply because I believe the Lord speaks to us when we read the Bible. I used to teach Evangelism classes in the San Fernando Valley (the part of LA where MacArthur's church is) and his followers used to show up to heckle me and start arguments right in class. So ungodly. He spends time teaching about "movements" to be aware of instead of teaching Gods word. I have been accused by MacArthur followers of being part of movements I had never heard of. They seem completely unwilling and unable to have fellowship or peace with Christians of different viewpoints. I wonder whether to consider him a cult leader. I deeply disagree with his statement about religious liberty. Personally, I actually believe Gods promise to Israel is still in effect, but I deeply respect and appreciate your articulation of your view and understanding of this issue. I have no respect for John MacArthur, but really liked how respectful you were in disagreeing with him. He could learn from you!

[@digitalwasabi2]

John MacArthur doesn’t believe in fighting for religious liberty, he just believes in benefiting from those who did before him.

[@unachica7162]

Mark 9:50 “Salt is good: but if the salt has lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.”

[@ginnydyck2866]

Thank goodness you are talking on CRT. In my school we are being indoctrinated into CRT by reading a book about the "true" history of racism and I am so glad that I have not been deceived and I have God and people like you to thank

[@debbiebayles1706]

God bless you. The fight will get harder but "greater is He", you just have to hold onto that and give no ear to the lies outside of what you must listen to at school

[@ginnydyck2866]

@@debbiebayles1706 Thank you so much! It is so great to have encouragement because it feels like I can't do anything about it right now

[@jillcolvin4196]

Just a thought: wasn't MacArthur fighting FOR religious freedom when he filed a lawsuit against LA County to open the church?

[@jpersaud5915]

I think one of the arguments you're making is kind of utilitarian. The fact that America did good things (like sending missionaries) doesn't make its founding principles good. That said, I do support many of America's founding principles.

[@Raven97]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. We already have religious freedom, there is no need to make any more arguments on the matter and if anyone is crying out in this country that they do not have this freedom be weary of their agenda. What we as Americans need to do is make sure the Constitution if followed, plain and simple.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

MacArthur is correct on this one ...

[@jamescollins1272]

the Facts are John MacArthur is a modern day Pharisee who know how to criticize anyone especially if they’re miles more effective in ministry than He’ll ever be, and He is dead clueless as to how modern day Signs, Wonders, and Miracles work.

[@AnaCC345]

I think my biggest concern with Beth Moore of late is that she always seems to be on the news and it’s become about her. I realize that she can’t control the media but her constant commenting on social media is what has created this. It made me question if she has some deep issues within her that are unresolved. I didn’t think it was necessary for her to comment about Harry and Megan for example. These are all distractions from the main message which is the gospel. A real teacher of the word of God is pointing people to Jesus it does not become about them or their personality or their personal issues.

[@kpm8879]

THANK YOU! I had to leave the room when session 4 got deep into the lies, I struggle with the lies about the history of The US. You have put into words that I was trying to say, you’ve done a much better job than I did! Thank you.

[@katiehutton4109]

I missed session 4.... do you know which speaker/s she’s referencing?

[@valeriegoldstein3483]

We live in a community where there is a sect similar to the Mennonites who don’t believe in voting or involvement in civic affairs. Yet their very freedom to gather and teach their beliefs is provided by those who fight for the right to do so

[@fandude7]

I deeply respect Mcarthur. Though and I am not 5 point Calvinist nor Armenian and I am a Pretrib Premi, it seems that Mcarthur has a "martyrs" mentality on this. Yes, the church grows even in opposition, but freedom and liberty are blessings from God, not idolatry.

[@clb3297]

The Apostles spread Christianity throughout Roman Empire without any freedom or liberty. Christianity is growing most in regions without freedom like China. Christianty has been on decline in USA to point that less than 50% of Americans identify as Christian. Persecution builds up strong faith; we have weak, wobbly Christians with little zeal or conviction.

[@CC-yv3tx]

I think what John was saying was our options are not just religious freedom or secularism. We can be a Christian nation and only a Christian nation.

[@kathykardashian7750]

I wondered if that is what he was getting at. He sure has taken political stands before.

[@carriedewitt8572]

I think John would have had church whether he had a right to do that or not because it is biblical to do it. It wasn't about fighting for his right to worship, it was about his duty to be obedient to the bible. Daniel did it. Was he fighting for his religious freedom? No, he was worshipping his God despite the law. Did John hire a lawyer or did the church or did a lawyer volunteer? I don't know. But if Daniel had a lawyer to help him, would he have used it? Maybe, maybe not.

[@seanvaughn7566]

We are supposed to pray for the peace of the land we are in. But as far as persecution, we are to pray for our brothers and sisters going through that.

[@CaroleRubano]

Went to 1 IF conference sponsored by my church,felt totally uneasy the first meeting,nut all the gals wrte so excited, 2 meeting, couldn't take it anymore and walked out!! Everyone raved about it, i truly thought something was wrong with me,but praise Hod He protected me from this ungodly nonsense!! That eas 2 years ago,my Church no longer sponsers this, but about 10 women in my Churvh are meeting in homes this weekend to watch this. I want notjing to do with it. A gal in out chirch sent out a video expising the IF meetings,and was called a divider, unloving etc. Its getting harder and harder to stand for Truth. Many just want ears tickled,even when you show them sctiptually, its sad, especially among women, hardly any discernment😢

[@shawndavis824]

I have also listened to and admired John MacArthur for years, but I have become deeply concerned about the recent reports of his and Grace Community Church silencing and blaming women who were victims of domestic abuse within the church. Has this changed how you feel about his leadership?

[@SantoValentino]

Bible > Constitution

[@gailsmilanich9272]

You make such a compelling argument for religious liberty. Religious liberty allows me to have a personal relationship with the one true living God through Jesus Christ his son and through and by the grace of the Holy Spirit. I am NOT a fan of “religion”, but I do know that we need religious liberty.

[@dachickenman]

I don't even understand Macarthur's argument.

[@donnaboucher7]

I don't understand what is idolatry about liberty?

[@angelistorres116]

Because liberty here on earth means nothing. Our freedoms are from Christ and Christ alone. We shouldn't be fighting for anything here on earth except when it comes to worshipping Christ, gathering to worship him and reading the word. That's why he "fought" the California government because they were telling him we couldn't come to fellowship and worship.

[@finalaccuracy7695]

@@angelistorres116 You actually prove the value of religious liberty with your statement. I agree we will never impose the Kingdom on earth. However, religious liberty helps the spread of the Gospel. Pastor MacArthur had no problem using religious liberty to fight the ban on his services and it worked.

[@finalaccuracy7695]

@@angelistorres116 Also, just food for thought. In John 10 we read that Jesus is in Jerusalem celebrating the Feast of Dedication, now commonly called Hanukkah. This whole feast is because of the Maccabean revolt. This revolt was against the Seleucid empire. Their Hellenistic oppressors imposed a ban on their religion and even had the death penalty for anyone caught with a copy of the Torah or obeying the Levitical law in regards to circumcision. It's true that we are not called to create the kingdom on earth, only Jesus's return will accomplish that, but it does not prohibit us from championing laws that allow us to worship and preach the Gospel. To say we can't because the Bible doesn't tell us to, would be an argument from silence (a fallacy). The video does a great job addressing Pastor MacArthur's concerns. As long as the pursuit of religious liberty doesn't supplant Christ as our number one priority then it is not idolatry. We are not prohibited from using our laws or defending them. Even Paul claimed his right as a Roman citizen when it came to religious persecution. Sorry for the rambling but I hope it made sense.

[@eternalrealist2836]

@@finalaccuracy7695 Not rambling at all. Very salient and comprehensive post. Thank you!

[@mkshffr4936]

Idolatry includes putting anything before God. I have clearly seen political idolatry in the church both left and right. For decades we on the right have been selling our loyalty for a seat at the table and promises of religious freedom (usually in the form of "religious exemptions"). Many deals with the devil have been made on these grounds.

[@lissawoodall4346]

I attended a mcA "like" church for years. They were totally unconcerned with the direction of our nation. The argument that Jesus or Paul or Peter didn't engage in the diection of their nation (slavery, fight for their own rights, etc), the situation is totally different so the comparison fails. David Barton explains so well how we are salt and light when we are loving God and participating in our government. When we as Christians try to ignor all thats going on and only share the gospel, then we are living as though the gospel doesn't address much of life. I have loved the teaching of JM but there is a subtle unloving attitude that goes with it.

[@svenskaapologetiksallskape527]

This was so refreshing!! Thanks from Sweden!