My First Tibetan Buddhist Meditation Retreat | Honest Experience

I went to Vietnam to do a two week meditation retreat with Tibetan buddhist monk and teacher Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche, but, it wasn't at all what I had hoped for.
I share my unfiltered experience from a Tibetan Buddhist meditation retreat led by Chokny Nyima Rinpoche. In this eye-opening video, I reveal the challenges I encountered, shedding light on the inauthentic aspects of the retreat and the disconnection between the teachings and the lived reality.
Despite the initial anticipation of spiritual growth, I discovered a retreat tainted by questionable organization, financial motives, and a gap between preaching and practicing. Join me as I navigate through the nuances of my discontent, sharing the valuable lessons I gleaned amidst the disappointment.
This video is not just a personal reflection but a critical examination of the authenticity within the spiritual community. Let's delve into the reality behind the serene facade and explore the deeper insights gained from an unexpected and challenging spiritual journey.
#SpiritualJourney #MeditationRetreat #AuthenticityInSpirituality
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00:00 intro
00:53 my experience
01:46 bad organization
03:50 misleading scholarship
05:09 silencing
06:03 too religious
06:30 donating money
07:53 performative spirituality
08:56 veganism & ethics
11:35 wllful ignorance
12:17 toxic buddhists
14:08 would I go again?
14:58 inauthentic practitioners
16:08 rant on religion
17:11 idolising your guru
18:42 conclusion

[@mikemetague7973]

I enjoy your Diogenes-like take on hypocrisy. As an old geezer, I think 'seeing through things' expands as we age, but knowing authenticity is truly worth it!

[@premadimauro2691]

This is exactly why I do not attend any retreats or spiritual activities. I practice alone. Attending this retreat would have made me feel extremely angry which would have gone against all of the teachings. Thank you for sharing this

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you so much, that makes me feel really validated! I agree. It was my first and last retreat of this kind.

[@almabove2010]

If this type of Buddhism didn't work you can always try another, I visit the Amaravati Buddhist Monastery and they practice the Thai forest tradition which is so hands off and relaxing and no one pressures you or makes you feel uncomfortable. Obviously it will be a bit far for you but if you ever visit the UK I would for sure recommend you visit. Thank you as always for the awesome video! 🌺😀

[@SagaJohanna]

Haha, thank you

[@almabove2010]

@@SagaJohanna Aw no probs🌸🌺

[@ladadudnikova6724]

Thanks definitely for sharing your experience. I have got interested in Buddhism through teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh and the whole monk team of Plum Village, and as I have hard time reaching a practitioner aligned with this tradition, I search around my District. There is a Kadampa centre, a Theravada Forest Buddhist society and Sokka Gokkai community, and some tibetian facilities open at the times that are really hard to me to attend. Plum Village tradition assures the importance of community fostering and promote vegan diet, so it was the final drop to help me strive for more plant-based diet. As for now, I believe that I would find my Buddhist sangha, but I learn to recognize and create sangha myself right where I am, as soon as I have energy for it. I am quite wary to go to monasteries and also unfortunately easily get uncomfortable and sceptical and disconfiant, so I go slowly and try to get a grip on original texts, like diamond, lotus, heart sutras. Definitely, thank you very much for the channel, I was so happy to see that it's up and running and that you address the issues with precision and gentleness that I really adore.

[@Soulself11]

Thank you for sharing your experience! 💛 This will help others, with your honest review. 🙏

[@SagaJohanna]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you!

[@salomekochalski1947]

Hi Saga, I enjoyed many points in this video, but especially the one you made about not idioloizing your teacher. I never really understood the idolozation of people instead of the simple appreciation of what they teach or do. Never heard anyone put it in such a good and simple way though. Thank you for your honesty about your experiences.

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that!

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you so so much, it's so nice of you to say!

[@winamortenson9125]

This video was great, thank you for making it. You had so many wise things to say. You go, Saga!!

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you!

[@Fruit_bee]

Thank you for talking and caring about animals 🤗

[@SagaJohanna]

Aw thank you so much 🤗

[@duikmans]

So sorry to hear that the retreat was a disappointment. I can imagine the anticipation of attending the retreat life and then the cold shower when being so let down by the organization and, in fact, also some of the other participants.

[@SagaJohanna]

Yes :( Such a shame! Thank you!

[@JJBushfan]

I hope you won't be in any way offended if I make a personal observation. I've watched several of your videos and offer congratulation on your coherent presentation and commendable lack of ego projection. It seems evident to me that you are already on a highly evolved spiritual path, and I think your rejection of religion is a telling sign of that. I hold a strong suspicion that people who have reached that stage are better served by trusting their own instincts and letting the revelations come to them when the revelations are ready. I'm quite sure that epiphanies do happen, and that they're better teachers than the majority of gurus (especially those who are in thrall to the motivation of personal power.) If I'm right, then could it be that you are trying too hard and allowing yourself to be too influenced by the words of others? Maybe it would be better to trust your own instincts, since they're clearly very sound.

[@maxd1744]

Thanks, this helped me, too. ❤

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you very much!

[@jimk7964]

Thanks for sharing your experience! Always question. Never idolize. Offer constructive feedback. Conform to rituals only if they feel authentic to you.

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you!

[@emeloin]

I love your honesty. You say it as you see it

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you

[@hcm9999]

I studied Buddhism here in Japan.

[@barisguven6854]

Thank you for your heartfelt sharing. Different perspective and I loved it.:)

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you so so much! :)

[@shikhargupta4063]

This sounds like an Art Of Living workshop! I am quite surprised that a Buddhist retreat was like this.

[@surendrabajracharya1291]

This is so real as a buddhist you spoke facts about the practice and what in actual is performed.

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you !

[@BurimPrroi]

Hi Saga, can you make a video about how you like to dress in Sweden? What do you actually pay attention while dressing (clothes)? Even you in some videos you talk about it. Can you do a separate video about it? Thank you. Greetings from Düsseldorf

[@AliceMara]

Very interesting topic! I was a regular visitor to an ashram in Germany for several years. It was helpful to get to know people with different world views or to get an introduction to different yoga practices. But I share exactly your point that words and actions differ. There was talk about drug-free and ahimsa. Outside of that, many yogis have smoked or taken substances because it supposedly takes them to higher dimensions. Many outside eat meat etc and drink alcohol. I found that very hypocritical.

[@SagaJohanna]

That is so interesting! I agree, it's difficult to understand the difference between what people believe and what they do.

[@maxd1744]

I guess we should create our own amazing retreat.

[@SagaJohanna]

That's a great idea! :)

[@JohnPaul-158]

WOW! You look amazing in the blue and your hair curled! I am shocked that it was kind of a let down. The accommodations aside, it seems, as in most religions, they are one sided. As the old saying goes: "do as I say, not as I do". There is nothing wrong with questioning things. One can not nor should not just blindly follow. When I was young, I questioned things in the bible. That was when I realized there was more to "beliefs". I would ask questions and when there was no real answers, I was told to "just believe". Truth to tell, having talked to numerous people from numerous faiths, I tend to have more faith in the old Norse religions and the way the American Indians lived. In that they believed in living "with" the earth. Thanks for the honest review! Where are you 2 heading next? Have a great week! kram

[@rjaydriskill]

Sounds like the organization, though not necessarily the teacher, has evolved into having a more materialistic goal than a spiritual one. Thank you for an informative and helpful video, Saga. 🙂

[@ovidiustoica5055]

It is a religion after all. It is grounded in faith and ritual.

[@Samurai-ke5ie]

U mean abrahamic religions ?

[@hkatta3569]

are there any meditation retreats you recommend

[@SagaJohanna]

Not any I have tried unfortunately. If I do I’ll let you know!

[@delamayrose-carpenter4079]

Well said u said what many think but don't say

[@SagaJohanna]

Thanks!

[@Samurai-ke5ie]

What is the difference between spirituality and religion ? Where does Buddhism or Buddha dharma fall into ? What exactly is a “ toxic Buddhist” ? Has it got to do anything with teachings of Buddha or the person who teaches or people you attended the retreat ? Finally what exactly does retreat is according to teachings of Buddha or to you ?

[@SagaJohanna]

Haha, I see where you're coming from ❤️ It's easy to fall in the habit of "asking questions" from a spiritual perspective. I myself prefer questioning questions ;)

[@andywalker7582]

I recommend 'Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism' by Chögyam Trungpa.

[@SagaJohanna]

Oh that sounds awesome already by name and title, will look it up thank you!

[@jaimito2525]

I have been to a few retreats and unfortunately, many are just a big business. Scholarships are a way to get people in but in reality, they are just a hook. My biggest disappointment was Rishikesh, a Home shopping network of yoga retreats and fishy schools that are just a big business. Real retreats are less posh and more content, thetrue philosophy is simplicity.

[@SagaJohanna]

That was similar to my experience as well ❤️

[@vonHolzwege]

it is possible to 'minimize' religion. Despite what organized religions (and anyone wanting to make money from your faith) may say, your spirituality is ultimately between you and ..... (god, the universe, etc.). Anyone who says differently is trying to sell you something.

[@SagaJohanna]

I really recommend his books as well if you're interested in learning more :)

[@nicolecarter1072]

You might like a Vipassana retreat much more. They are silent retreats where you meditate in silence most of the day. Only 2 meals a day. Vegetarian but not vegan. They are the bare bones of Buddhism. Did you know that part of Tibetan Mahayana Buddism is to eat what is offered to you? The Dalai Llama is vegetarian but if he is a guest and is given meat, he will eat it. It's part of the teachings of being humble and having gratitude.

[@SagaJohanna]

Yes I did know that. Vipassana meditation style is not really something I'm interested in, I much prefer the Tibetan style haha💕

[@nicolecarter1072]

@@SagaJohanna they are very different modalities. Most Tibetan llamas eat meat. I can understand your frustration about being offered the vegan option but not getting vegan food (although I'm sure there was food on the buffet that didn't contain any animal products). Perhaps you are more suited to a western version of Tibetan Buddhism than Tibetan version.

[@rwonderful3861]

You're going to be okay.. I enjoyed listening to what your experience was all about.

[@SagaJohanna]

Thanks!

[@peyvandf]

Plants also suffer when we eat them right?

[@whatistheevidence370]

From a Buddhist perspective, plants lack sentience and self-awareness, so their suffering is minimal when we consume them. Buddhists strive to cause minimal harm while sustaining themselves.

[@mxvega1097]

There are schools which are more oriented towards meditation practice, philosophy, and mind, like zen. The HardcoreZen channel can be interesting. My personal - maybe cultural - preference is to the more basic, austere, and minimal schools, which is why I can't really get with the Tibetan approach to mysticism, ceremony, and (frankly) obscurantism. It seems to attract a particular kind of person given to "spiritual bypassing" - both shortcuts and "more enlightened than thou" attitudes, which is pretty funny. I tried to read a commentary on the Heart Sutra and it was hundreds of pages of nonsense. There is a Tibetan center down the road advertising a course on "The Uncommon Yoga of Inconceivability", which sounds like more of the same. Maybe it helps someone. Not me.

[@SagaJohanna]

It sounds like we are quite similar on this! I too prefer the practice ones :) Although I really appreciate a lot of the Tibetan teachings, especially on metta and impermanence.

[@occupier1]

We build our own Buddhism in our minds then when we see how they do it in the countries that have buddhism as the main religion it can be disappointing yeah?

[@SagaJohanna]

that’s not how I felt, since my teacher is from Tibet and I’ve been to Vietnam before. ❤️

[@occupier1]

@@SagaJohanna yeah I see what you are saying and agree it sounds like a money making enterprise that was missing the point.

[@vonHolzwege]

A more useful comment, perhaps. You should look at a video "Why the world is going crazy-and how to win back our minds" by Jamie Wheal. Joseph Campbell made the point more than 50 years ago that our current mythologies (religions) are inadequate for our world today. There is a book by Wheal (which I haven't read yet) that may offer more insight. Recapture the Rapture : Rethinking God, Sex and Death in a World That's Lost its Mind.

[@SagaJohanna]

Haha those books are for sure books that are not on my radar :) I really like Tolstoys "letters to Hindusim"

[@melellis8777]

Try western Buddhism instead. The triratna sangha founded by sangharakshita in the UK is founded more on the truths of Buddhism than the religion of it, and there are plenty of other great western modern traditions too. Lots of great western retreats are available out there... 🙏

[@SagaJohanna]

Thanks!

[@alecb.7696]

I’m sorry that the retreat was such a disappointment. I don’t think you came across as too angry at all. I think you were seeking to give an honest analysis of things. Those who are genuinely spiritually wise do not in my view bridle at people who question, even critically. To insist on ‘respect’ and to inhibit questioning is more of a cult-like behaviour pattern (I am not suggesting this was the stance of the teacher here, for the reasons you gave, but perhaps some of those in his orbit?). Having had more positive experiences than this on retreat, I think it can be lovely to come together with like-minded spiritual people (especially when your beliefs and spirituality are counter-cultural to the prevailing materialistic mores of the West). But the performative / superficial aspects of spirituality can be deeply off-putting (which is different I think from people genuinely wishing to follow the ethic precepts but recognising they are flawed, far from perfect in their practice and have a long way to go). There is no excuse for the poor organisation, two-tier accommodation and indifference to those who wish to follow the vegan diet option advertised as available on booking. I’m sorry this indifference meant you couldn’t eat properly and became ill. I hope you may find more positive experiences of communal spirituality in the future. Even locally I found a completely different approach in the sanghas of two Buddhist groups in different traditions.

[@SagaJohanna]

Thank you Alec

[@adrianr7819]

A lot to take in but the retreat seemed contradictory. You did not know what you were getting. I think money is misdirected why are the buildings so elaborate. Sorry the experience was not as you expected you were brave to go. ❤

[@SagaJohanna]

I agree! Thank you Adrian

[@lieberjule-ht2ie]

it sounds like you expected something that wasn't intended by the organisers ... ? tibetan teachings are normally given seperatly from the intense practice. You listen to them in a very condensed form - and it seems that such events have been rather like big fairs in tibet. And then you go to retreat for yourself, try what happens if you follow the teachings and go back to get more teachings ... I don't agree with your argument about taking what's not given or rather i see what you mean, but there is traditionally an other interpretation: if you are given meat or anything you don't like, you take it and don't demand something better - as far as I know, that is not only hth case for tibetans but also for the forrest nuns and monks. And I would have been irritated too, if i where promised vegan food and would't be able to figure out what was what. Only: does it make your mind easier, if you are ranting on about it? but thats your decision. It's about mind beeing easy so as to beeing able to be compassionate with others, that live life in a different way than you, isn't it? and about mind beeing open to all experiences that you encountre, may they be what you expect and what you didn't. You seem to have found out pretty clearly what is not your way, and now you can go on. I think that's great - it might feel that you have payed a high price and I'm sorry for that. hopefully you keep your tolerance of ambiguity, that shows in critizing the setting but not the teacher. Thats so helpful throughout live. If the other 300 or so people where happy, that seems to be their way. the Buddha says there re 84000 ways to get enlightend, and even he is not to judge. what I do: I read all the great teachers you are telling about and recomending BUT I prefer to go to teachings with smaller sanghas "in the neighborhood", so that there is a possibility to get into contact with the teacher and getting to know the sangha, asking questions. And if a teacher AND her/ his sangha makes me feel fine, I go to a short retreat, that doesn't need me to make special arrangements like being a scholar. AND if this is a good experience, then I go for a longer retreat. But thats all not very glamorous. It means retreats for example in niederbayern with teachers that don't wear robes and are earning their livelyhood in worldly professions, so they don't have to sell dharma - and are practicing what they teach. Being humble enough to be there for those who really connect with them.

[@karenarden1856]

I do believe that you are "an old soul" Saga, I think that's why your wisdom is so far beyond your years. I have not cared for the concept of organized religion myself for many years, don't care at all for doctrine, and have instead referred to myself as being spiritual. I try to follow the teachings of Christ as the highest ideal of Peace on Earth, the one that is rooted in the actual true practice of Christianity. Too many people do not practice what they preach though, and so very tragically throughout so much of history, in the name of the same, people have been persecuted, and killed. But if one is to actually embrace the truth of what Jesus did to spread the light of the love of God to a sad, dark world so in need of it, then there would be much more beauty to be had, joy to be found, and peace and love to go around to all. One early follower of Christ was St. Francis of Assisi, and he really. truly loved animals, and all of nature. I guess maybe back in his day though, people probably did not know of any alternative diets, such as being a vegan. I too have always loved animals, and could never hurt one, not ever. I wish for you to find all the hope and joy you can hold in this new year, and always!! 💝💖

[@TheMimzee]

I have been studying Jodo Shinshu Buddhism, Nishi Honwanji, for quite some time now and seldom experienced any of the problems you did. When I did, it was usually from people who were beginning students or people who dabbled in the 4 Noble Truths and assumed that they were qualified to lecture about Buddhism. I never received that from the sensei themselves, however. There are hypocrites everywhere, religious or non-religious. There are people who are judgmental of others who do not share their views, regardless of what that view happens to be. There are so many sects of so many different religions that it makes my head spin. Your experience was an unfortunate one which, as you mentioned, seems to have been very poorly organized. It's a shame, really. Incidentally, a religion is not a religion if there are no god(s) and no dogma. Since Buddhism has neither of these things, I have always considered it to be a philosophy rather than a religion. I know there are some Buddhists who worship Lord Buddha Siddartha as a god, an idea to which many of us are vehemently opposed. I am one of them. But that is a topic for another time.

[@bronsonstone725]

Good on you for being persistent with trying to evolve spiritually. A few points, religion isn't spirituality, Jesus wasn't a christian and Buddha wasn't a buddhist. (Jesus was also a Buddha actually, but not a buddhist) If you ever experience the state of samadhi, god consciousness, being all that is, but further still, being beyond all that is and all that is, is a creation within and of you. Then you will see that what Jesus spoke about was the same as what other mystics spoke about, it's all the same, there is only One. You are right to not idolise the teacher, but to embrace the teaching. Similarly, there is only a need to go to retreats etc while you feel a need, they can be great, but solitude is a state of mind, not a location. Try this: Simply do this, while doing anything that doesn't require thinking, perhaps going for a walk, gardening, house work, shopping, create a feeling of unconditional love, hold this for as long as you can as often as you can, it maybe just for a minute, but persist daily, it will bare fruit. ---- The reason this works is because samadhi is a state of absolute unconditional love, so like oil and water don't mix, unconditional and conditional don't mix, so by becoming unconditional even for a minute if it is real then absorption happens, your own direct experience will be your evidence of the truth. Edit: Consider looking up youtube channel "medicine of one", check out his many audio books, especially Ramana Maharshi

[@sanatan1221]

Buddha was not a buddhist.

[@SagaJohanna]

[@sanatan1221]

@@SagaJohanna i am actually feeling lonely & depressed/vulnerable after my recent third vipassana experience (thats why i looked for videos of people sharing experiences). maybe it is the need of the moment, because i might have been escaping & compensating the pain within me for too long through being busy but avoiding to face it. vipassana has just pointed this pain out, so i have to deal with it without postponing, looking at it as it is, forgiving myself, purifying it & moving on. i have faith it is for my own benefit, i take responsibility without blaming vipassana. i am grateful ✨thank you & good luck on your journey of self-discovery

[@ScottWalkerScEdD]

First-world problems.

[@SagaJohanna]

Sure

[@WaMo721]

Tibetan Buddhism may not be your thing then,cuz majority of of lamas eat meat(try asceticism or something idk😂)and btw,spirituality and religion is not separate…..idk why westerners have such a weird different understanding of “spirituality”…….if your mind is bound by logic and reasoning then study western philosophy,cuz the deeper u go into tibetan buddhism and start tantra u will have to leave “logics” outside…….and if u want to study only the philosophy part of Buddhism then just enroll in any academia or something….and if u want spirituality,religion will be there whether u want or not,cuz they r same thing(in tibetan language they both r same word)…..sorry if it sound like a rant i just wanted to cut thru ur delusion

[@SagaJohanna]

I like both spirituality and logic, and in my experience, Tibetan scriptures and teachers usually offers both in an extraordinary way! :)

[@susandean8584]

I’m so sorry your retreat wasn’t an uplifting experience for you. Very disappointing indeed. I have stopped telling people that I am vegan unless they ask or it is necessary, for example, if I’m in a restaurant. I am a yoga teacher and find it perplexing the number of practitioners who are not vegan. I have met very few who are even amongst the teachers. Any time I have said that I am vegan they always tell me how little animal products they consume or that they tried being vegan and it didn’t work for them. I feel that there must be some guilt or unease that they think that they must justify to me what they are doing. Ahimsa, the concept of doing no harm or non-violence, is one of the yamas in yoga so eating eggs, milk, meat, fish goes completely against this concept. 🤷‍♀️

[@SagaJohanna]

I'm so glad to hear your similar experience!

[@naletai]

Supermysig video🫶🏻

[@SagaJohanna]

Åh tack!