Naked Bible Podcast 224 - The Falling Away and the Restrainer

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 contains two enigmatic features. In the first four verses Paul takes on the false teaching, circulating in the Thessalonian church, that the Day of the Lord had already come to pass. In the process Paul tells the believers “Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the apostasia comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.” It’s clear that the man of lawlessness is the antichrist, but what is the apostasia? Some translations render the Greek term “falling away,” but others have “rebellion”? Just what event is Paul talking that must occur before the revealing of the antichrist? Later in the chapter Paul mentions an impersonal “restraint” and a mysterious figure who is the “restrainer” that are holding back the events leading to the second coming. What or who could do that? This episode tackles both these difficulties.
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[@KingdomIsNow]

He is one of the finest and most meticulous exegete of our generation. We were blessed to have him for a while.

[@matthewjames9209]

Yet again. Brilliant. It’s taking me a third time listening to take it in. Dr Heiser is just gifted. See you in the kingdom brother. We miss you

[@daddyb114]

I am soooo thankful for Dr. Mike and his crew. I discovered him just prior to his passing. R.I.P man of God. Thank you your wisdom moves us forward.

[@rebekahallen6188]

Wow!!! This was awesome and a huge eye opener for me. Well done Dr Heiser. You are missed!!!!

[@Dwitwitty]

I just recently discovered Dr. Mike. Gone too soon but everlasting impact. A dent on Christian world view! Mike is already experiencing the unseen realm first hand!!!!

[@autumn4115]

Wow! What a teaching this is! Knowledge is increasing as stated in Daniel 12:4.

[@markcrumb3435]

The way mike was so straight forward in this presentation was awesome. I really appreciate the unbiased approach to scripture too.

[@warrenrodgers7544]

We all must do out part and spread the good news..

[@duffysullivan2794]

Was going through the Naked Bible Podcast list, read the title and thought, how interesting can this episode be? Man, I was floored by it!

[@timm9842]

I’m reading Unseen Realm. It’s not a easy read. Makes me stop n think over each sentence. I make notes in the margins- always did this in my college books. I have not read anything that stands out on prayer n healing so far , but it’s early yet I’m only on page 56. I go over stuff many times.

[@stevetobe4494]

I'm reading Reversing Hermon first.

[@justjosie8963]

Last night it hit me that all these demonic pop musicians & commercials stressing "rise up" are trying to raise the beast and demons in plain sight.

[@dlbard1]

Look at Monster energy drink, upside down 666 and their logo "unleash the beast"

[@shredhed572]

I know, right? They aren't even trying to hide it now

[@jofo817]

@@dlbard1 the panera bread logo too

[@proudhon100]

There has been a falling away in the past year - most of the churches in the UK and US appear to have closed down voluntarily over a respiratory disease.

[@patriothippie5881]

@@jofo817 elaborate ?

[@rodenranch6291]

“If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

god bless you Dr Heiser. We wait for King Jesus!

[@pearlyq3560]

RIGHT on!!! The Old Testament must be checked with New Testament. Well done! Brilliant!

[@MrConsto]

Vice versa. The NT needs to be checked with the OT, those are the inspired Scriptures that the Bereans used to verify Paul’s NT theology.

[@notsure9379]

This is one of the few times, you can hear the excitement in Mike's voice as he explains the return of Christ. And the correlation between the jews in prophecy and Paul's current jews he contends with.

[@taylorking5463]

I absolutely agree with you, Dr. Hesiser! AMEN!

[@davidhill5897]

Thank you Dr. for your scripture insights. I’m always blessed by your insights.

[@ivanturinski5043]

I feel blessed listening to your podcast, great work Michael, I love the way you communicate the subject with your audience.

[@pearlyq3560]

Wow! I have waited 40 years to hear who/what is the restrainer -- no answers ever sat right for some reason. All answers seemed awkward and forced. This may very well be the most coherent and sensical explanation I have ever heard. The only stretch is to assume Paul is thinking about Isaiah 66, but it is definitely the most valid argument I have ever heard. It has bothered me to YEARS! Thank you Dr. Heiser.

[@Gigachild]

Dr. Heiser has answered some questions that I'd had for 5-10 years. I'd asked those who knew much, the internet, friends, but nothing ever seemed to be logical, coherent, despite those I asked being very much that! The Divine Council specifically has cleared up maybe hundreds of questions in my mind.

[@HappyHolyHealthyLife]

"Vegan order in a burger place" love it 😀 😋

[@inmyopinion651]

Christian Zionism belief and being saved without believing in Jesus could be it. Heretical and causes falling away. I also agree that many NT writers were OT scholars. Paul was brilliant in his understanding of the OT.

[@robertyoung2279]

What we have learned, really. should have learned a long time ago is, always keep the big picture in mind.

[@savedbygrace6853]

"OT concealed is the NT revealed"- Chuck Missler Amazing Mike Heiser 👏

[@iamjustsaying4787]

The laws of metaphysics are that you have to announce what you are planning because the human has to know what they are buying into when they reject decency for depravity. They can couch it anyway they want in their efforts but saving or damning your soul, the real you, has to be an informed decision.

[@dlbard1]

Fantastic! This is why I'm taking Greek lessons.

[@jasonallen6806]

If people would pay attention everything that happened back then is happening now.

[@leedatsit1799]

Great comment. Just as the religious leadership of the Jewish temple became so corrupt, the religious leadership of the Gentiles has done the same. Israel was failing in its task as Divine imagers, and now the Gentile church is doing exactly the same. Look at what they teach, any nonsensical thing that will bring in bucks and increase body count. Same thing back then, teaching nothing more than "the opinions of man" about scripture, not scripture itself, just like now. You also had all these people running around starting up or joining to ministries for popularity and personal gain, such as Theudas (Acts 5:36), Judas of Galilee (Acts 5:37), and we see a real clear example of this with Ananias and Sapphira, who we are told straight out lied about the money they gave to the church, holding back part of it. Why would they do that? Looking to make a name for themselves in "the new movement" seems like a likely answer, given especially the corrupt leadership of the temple we know was in place at the time. Then we have Simon of Samaria (Acts 8:9-24). The fact these people are all mentioned in the book of Acts within a few chapters points to a climate of such things in existence at the time. Psalms 12:8 "The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted."

[@proudhon100]

@@leedatsit1799 I agrree. Also, the voluntary closing of many/most churches seems to me to be the apostasia.

[@Joah1990]

This topic is a major hangup for pre and post trib rapture debate and it was handled beautifully and carefully. Heiser is rock solid in my book. Taking this into account I still believe the prewrath rapture view is correct.

[@Bildad1976]

The passages most often cited for the rapture (1 Thessalonians and 1 Corinthians 15) both have a resurrection. However, Revelation 19:11 through 20:6 describes the return of Christ to the Earth to establish His Kingdom. It says that the resurrection that occurs at that time will be the FIRST resurrection (Revelation 20:5).

[@shredhed572]

@@Bildad1976 If it was the first then no need to declare it. It would be like me going to work, and the first thing I say is "this is the first statement I've made since I got here."

[@Bildad1976]

@@shredhed572 I don't think you understood the significance of the resurrection which occurs at the Second Coming of our Lord being referred to as the 1st resurrection. Those who believe in the rapture, believe that it occurs 7 years before (and some 3 1/2 years before) the 2nd coming of our Lord. However, the passages cited most often for the rapture Include a resurrection occurring with them. But that can't be true if the 1st resurrection does not occur until the 2nd coming. In other words, the 2 passages in Thessalonians and Corinthians must be referring to the 2nd coming because they contain a resurrection.

[@omnitheus5442]

Wow really great stuff!

[@joannejoanne5963]

I'm so blessed by your podcasts, I thank God for you!

[@tinahenry3814]

God Bless!

[@TaeKenDo]

Regarding the Apostacy and the Revealing of the man of sin. I believe they are simultaneous and connected. Those who turn away, turn away TO the man of sin revealing who he is. This would be a 'gathering' of apostates, becoming disciples / believers in the man of sin.

[@JosephQPublic]

That’s what I was gathering - it gives the reason for the apostasy, ie the man of sin

[@anneg1468]

Awesome teaching indeed! All praises to our very patient God and His awesome will for all His children.

[@stephenszucs8439]

This is old, but I just found it and enjoyed it. I hope you're still making videos.

[@daisydalisay6625]

Simply amazing!!! 😮❤❤❤ Praise God!!! 🥰

[@deanwise4529]

I love this stuff

[@nancyseibert840]

Thank you so much. !!!

[@shellieperreault6262]

This was excellent, as always, for a parsing of the Biblical text. It does however, make me thankful that I attend a church with a strong history and foundation of catechesis and teaching doctrine, because the restrainer is obvious in this case- the Holy Spirit. (Spoiler alert... the capitalization in some translations give it away). I can see however, people who are used to believing that faith in itself are their own works, or that baptism is a work of obedience, or that we are saved by the decision bell would maybe find the answer to the question about the identity of the restrainer surprising. But with the right doctrine of the role of the Holy Spirit in creating and sustaining faith, it is obvious - if the Apostasy or falling away is what precedes the rise of the Antichrist, what helps people keep their faith so they do not apostasize? The Holy Spirit, of course!

[@PinoyMusicRevolution]

The HS is in us

[@jacquiej5330]

The restrainer is God

[@shellieperreault6262]

@@jacquiej5330 Isn't that what I said?

[@Henriette-van-der-Ende]

Sooo good! Thank you Dr. Heiser, shalom.

[@claywithers523]

Agree 2 events, falling away first, then man of sin revealed. Won't go any further as it will upset many. The secret is not a secret, but in plain sight, for it is written. Been looking at that text for years, and have only recently seen what is written. Blessed be our Adonai and His Ben Yeshua. Shalom.

[@shredhed572]

Then why have a podcast if Mike simply reads what's written? He is an ancient language scholar...whats he supposed to do?

[@claywithers523]

@@shredhed572 I find no fault with what "Mike" is saying, why would I agree with him if I did?

[@heydude7568]

people like you are so annoying, yeshua this washawah that, yahooshua wooshua, spiritual pomposity to the max and holding on to spiritual secrets,smh,yawn yawn, another cloud without rain

[@stevetobe4494]

Pre wrath..Zephaniah 2:1-3 1Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; 2Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. 3Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

[@pearlyq3560]

Good call on Andy Stanley!!! False teacher without doubt!

[@joewilson3358]

Amen

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

If I understood Heiser correctly, he thinks 2 Thess 2:1 (the Lord appearing and our gathering to him) is the second coming because Paul had Isaiah 66 in his head when he wrote 2 Thess 1:6-9 (God setting everything straight at the second coming), and the restrainer is about how God is holding the Antichrist back until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in? But Paul also mentioned giving them tribulation and us rest in 2 Thess 1:6-9, which describes the rapture following by the great tribulation, so I think these verses span 3.5 years from the rapture/manifestation of the Antichrist thru his destruction at the second coming. Paul did the same thing in 2 Thess 2:8, where he described both the manifestation and destruction of the Antichrist in one sentence. I believe the restraining is about the fullness of the Gentiles coming in, which is the rapture, and that’s when the Jewish slumber towards the gospel will lift. In the short period of time between the rapture and manifestation of the abomination and Antichrist, a number of Jews will read the New Testament for answers, and because their eyes were opened at the rapture, they’ll understand and accept Jesus. This explains why Jesus left a warning to Israeli Jews (the vast majority of whom don’t believe) to understand and flee when they see these signs that start the great tribulation.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

You wrote, "... 2Thess 1:6-9, which describes the rapture following by [sic] the great tribulation ..." There is no 'two-stage secret parousia' in the passage you referenced. Jesus comes back ... once. Not twice. If you go back and read the Text in verse 7, "... when the Lord is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance ..." there's no mention of any 'secret Rapture.' The only 'Rapture' a reader may glean from the passage you referenced is the one, lone, actual, authentic Second Coming of Jesus. That's it that's all ... just Jesus' one-and-only public parousia, which comes after the Great Tribulation.

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

@@IndianaJoe0321, I sense that you need a little friendly advice. Using _sic_ in informal forum settings like this just comes across as petty and insulting, and leading off with it poisons the well. As far as your opinion goes, I suggest you research the media reporter who popularized the Darby conspiracy theory, Dave MacPherson, because your doctrine hinges on his work. Then if you’re thirsty for facts, I suggest you watch any lecture with Dr William C Watson, an actual historian who uncovered mounds of evidence that refutes the false conspiracy theories like MacPherson sells.

[@dlbard1]

Other names to look at; Margert MacDonald and Edward Irving

[@willielee5253]

@@IndianaJoe0321 Matthew 24:21-31 gives you the 'the great tribulation' and Jesus is one talking and describing time priod and the sequence of events we are keep an eye on. Sometime you have to read for yourself. If you're told what to believe and you don't read to know for yourself, you may find yourself in a pit. Be diligent in your research! God bless!

[@khamodaz]

It makes one wonder when people like you talk about a non-existent rapture to escape things our own lord experienced and we are not greater than to escape, then with what spirit do you speak and what lord do you serve

[@TheElizabethashby]

GOOD ONE

[@shredhed572]

Thanks Mike! This made perfect sense

[@richardhutchinson2435]

Dr Heiser thanks so much! I have been studying 2 Thess. 2 recently. Briefly, it it possible that the man of lawlessness is not an individual as the word for man is anthropos and not aner (sp)? Would that not “fit better” with this being an end times process and not one or two events? In other words, “antichrist” is a spirit that instigates the apostosia. Moreover, “he” sits in the temple ( not a physical temple but the bodies of those who “fall away).

[@FirstTimer23]

I know this is an old video, but youtube just got around to suggesting it. Anyways, I really do like your style of teaching and I agree that we can't do exegesis in a vacuum. Having said that, it sort of took me by surprise that you didn't even take a glance at Daniel 12:1, especially since one of the options that you gave for the restrainer was the archangel Michael. This is pretty much THE source of that teaching. Taken with Revelation 12:7, what we see is that Michael, forced to do battle with Satan in heaven, will be "taken" from his primary duty as protector of the people "whose name is written in the book". Satan will loose this war, be thrown down from heaven, and give his authority to the Beast. "Wow to you earth and sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time". This will be the time of great testing that Jesus is wanting us to stand firm. Even though the Christians of that time will face horrendous tribulation, God will cut that time short and we will be delivered. "So when you see the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds, look up for your redemption draweth nigh" Luke 21:27-28

[@willielee5253]

@First Timer 23, besides the are be seen, the building of the Temple no one can deny. The media is in a frenzy and so are we, look to the book and sights that will be appearing simultaneously.

[@stompthedragon4010]

This,was one of my arguements to a preterist friend; we are not living in the kingdom.

[@justchilling704]

We are living in the kingdom we just have yet to live the full reality of it as Christ hasn’t returned yet. The church are ambassadors of Christ’s kingdom in earth.

[@bassmanjr100]

Not sure where we go with questions but one that I have is that you says there are are lots of questions that can’t be answered with regards to end times. So what if any are we sure things in your mind with regards to end times. Jesus’ return, tribulation, millennium, etc. What are the sure things vs tradition and guess work. Would be a good show. Thx.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

study

[@DavidRudat]

He is so great like Enoch now, teaching the sons of God. Im tired of those who think they know but only teach that which agrees with the religious narrative they hold.

[@whittakerdanielj]

I do wish he had gone into the Greek of the portion of 2 Thessalonians.

[@troybusch]

So enlightening! Thank you!

[@fraukeschmidt8364]

I, too, lived in Bellingham for a couple of years or so, albeit Bellingham, London. Definitely not the kingdom in its fullness. ;-)

[@duaneelsbree3460]

I worked in Bellingham, Lynden IS nice.

[@pj1481]

He just doesnt want to use the pre-1611 kjv bible translation, it uses the word Departure.

[@nickboles9649]

Wouldn't it make sense, in regards to the Day of the Lord, that profacy could possibly be being fulfilled literally, figuratively, and metaphorically in both realms while only needing it to occur in any sense God chooses thus establishing the doctrine of immanence? I mean how else can you possibly surprise the top fallen angel and all his minions?

[@carlLackey-qk8sd]

the restrainer is the Holy Spirt who will leave with the church at the Rapture. Leaving the earth fully vulnerable to the un-restrained evil.

[@PistisAdelphos]

It's clearly 2 separate events. The day of the Lord will not come until a falling away first. So, first apostasy, then after that, man of lawlessness revealed. At the same time he is revealed, the lord destroy him with the breath of his mouth. The Lord himself does it. So he has come already at the event of the man of lawlessness being revealed. So it's easy to understand, falling away first, then Man of lawlessness/coming of the Lord happens second.

[@stevetobe4494]

The Day of the LORD covers the last 1,000 years..Look in the prophets for the wording, "in that day or in that time."

[@redCrambler]

I remember reading a story in the Talmud. A hand full of rabies are discussing when the messiah will come and the argument goes back and forth. Finally one rabbi who has been relatively quiet speaks up and says they messiah must come during the time of the second temple. If he didn’t come then then He is not coming. And I wonder if the whole son of perdition being revealed in the next temple is related to what this rabbi was arguing about. If it is I think that some scholars will soon begin arguments around Herods temple and whether it is the second temple or just a renovation of Solomon’s temple. Just a thought.

[@dlbard1]

If you dig into the works of the essenes you will find out this is what they believed. I believe this is why they left Jerusalem and went out into the desert and did their own thing. The Pharisees and Sadducees at that time we're completely corrupt on their interpretation of the scriptures. I also believe that they actually altered the scriptures. Evidence of it is the hundreds of variations between quotes in the New Testament of the Old Testament

[@GhostofFranky]

@@dlbard1 that’s why you should read the Septuagint. All of the quotes in the NT are from that text word for word . The Greek Torah is what all of the NT quotes. The MT was written by Pharisees

[@eew8060]

They are going to build a third temple.. and then the anti-christ will comr

[@eew8060]

Who is the "Ouse" that Dr Heiser keeps referring to? He keeps referring to someone and his articles? commentary? It's not linked on the podcast page. Anyone know??

[@bhhNC]

How odd... that something that has been on my heart for a long time - the popular local notion of "once saved, always saved" - is addressed in the Scripture you cite here. I have grown to understand that Salvation is a process, not an earned state-of-being ... more like a verb than a noun. I've had a few discussions with professing Christians who use the term "once saved, always saved" as an unspoken 'out', trying to reconcile their notion with lesson of the Parable of the Foolish Virgins/et al. It doesn't. 2 Corinthians 2:15 "We are among those who *are being* saved and those who are perishing" says it all. Thanks.

[@willielee5253]

@Shred Tele Man, you must have watched David Pawson's post - tilted Favouritism and Freedom. David spends time on many posts trying to free people from that misguided deception.

[@shellieperreault6262]

You are confusing salvation with sanctification.

[@carlLackey-qk8sd]

I would say that the apostasia is referring to when Satan and his angles are kick out of heaven mid tribish. Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Rev6 and 12

[@dawnalaia9984]

What exactly is an apostate ? I think I may be one because I fell away from the faith at 19 after being born again .thanks

[@ingognito369]

I've even heard ...satan is the one restraining because he doesnt want to give up his place in heaven..aka the mystery of lawlessness...I think I heard that from dalton thomas

[@craigheartwell5142]

listening again (and probably again)... I had always heard that the restrainer was restraining the revelation of the antichrist and was the Holy Spirit and/or the church - this is a completely different perspective. It takes longer to replace a wrong learning than to accept it in the first place, so my brain will need to process (both accept new and reject old).

[@starnmystique]

I have believed the same AND BELIEVE IT STILL. Mike has good info on certain subjects but I don't take everything he says as "gospel". The reasons for that are many but most importantly he seems to move in logic and not in the holy spirit. And that's huge for me.

[@craigheartwell5142]

@@starnmystique Agreed. If "He who restrains" is God, then it is also the Holy Spirit (6 of one...) - still makes sense. It seems that a lot is hinging on the tie back to Isaiah 66 to explain Paul's mindset (although I'm not sure it's critical to determining "who" is a restrainer). "That which restrains" being the plan for saving the gentiles makes no sense. Restraining is active - lack of an event would at most be passive, and in any case, the restraint would not be the man of lawlessness it would be a restraint on God or the day of the Lord. But doesn't the day of the lord occur after the antichrist has had his run - in which case it make even less sense because the restraint isn't then targeting the antichrist but Jesus. I don't think this has been fully explained by either position, but it still seems that "He" comes down to God/Holy Spirit because that would be the only force strong enough to restrain antichrist/satan - can't be the church (so this isn't an argument for a pre-trib rapture), and it doesn't make sense (to me) for it to be a lack of something - that's too passive. I have to listen again.

[@willielee5253]

@Craig Heartwell, Matthew 24:15 depicts the Temple in use. Whether the person is known or not Matthew 24:15-21, the tribulation has started. Before then there should've appeared many end time signs to let us know Christ is to come soon. And Pre-tri, yes will be on the backburner.

[@str.77]

Heiser us/was a great Bible scholar but I don't think his ultimate answer as to the "Restrainer" is correct. Paul refers to someone restraining the "man of lawlessness", not the birth of Zion's children. And if the restrainer is God, then how would the restrainer be taken out of the way? (That all happens according to God's plan goes without saying.)

[@blackdog75]

this could be completely off base (i haven’t studied this out or anything), but is it possible that the apostasia of 2 thess. is something that happens in the spirit world and not the corporeal world? therefore, with this in mind, that the events of revelation 12 are somehow related?

[@robertmurray9067]

Why would Paul tell them something in the spiritual world ? It's plain. People will fall away. It's happening now .

[@jeremygreen3201]

Truth is no pawn and the moment you played it as so your downfall was done. .

[@Kay-tc3go]

I have always heard that "the Restrainer" is the Holy Spirit. So if Mike concludes that God is the "Restrainer" then does this conclude that God as the Holy Spirit - the Restrainer; that take the lawless one out of the way?

[@redCrambler]

So when Paul says the son of perdition is revealed and then he goes on to say what the son of perdition does in the temple. Is Paul giving a description of how the son of perdition will be revealed?

[@shredhed572]

Not sure. But in between he 'confirms a covenants. I think the covenant may be with Israel. Could be wrong though

[@EBRoyJr]

I never heard it is God who is restraining but specifically the Holy Spirit that is restraining and is taken away. Thus, the church is "raptured" before the great tribulation. Can anyone help me understand this?

[@billycorey6101]

ITS NOT TALKING ABOUT CHURCH OF PENTACOST!! It’s speaking of the 1000 yr reign! The GOOD GRAIN AN CLEAN VESSEL?? Sanctified justified people!! Vessels !! THERE WILL NEVER BE A TEMPLE MADE OF HANDS !

[@rustusandroid]

2 Thess 2:5-8... HOW did Paul KNOW that?

[@User_at_777]

This man is a Jesuit. The office of the secular Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Empire was restraining the appearance of the office of the religious Pontifex Maximus (the man of sin) of the Holy Roman Empire. The apostasy began at the adoption of the 3 gods theory (Trinity), the marriage of church and state and the renaming of pagan Babylonian and Roman gods to Jesus, Mary and the Saints, which both corrupted believers and drew pagans into the churches. Today, we can add to the apostasy of the RCC almost all Protestant denominations and independent Christian churches, who have come under the control of that AC in Rome through his 16th century lie of a future AC in a delayed Daniel's 70th week (futurism) and the made up PreTrib Rapture. This false teaching was infiltrated into Protestantism by the Jesuits calling themselves masons. For 1260 years the AC in Rome persecuted and martyred the Saints. Napoleon gave him a fatal wound in 1797, and abolished the office of the papacy, but the second beast (USA) helped him to recover his power and establish his image in NYC, from where he rules the one world. This brings us up to date.

[@flintliddon]

What is that? A flock of ducks imploded?

[@leedatsit1799]

Lol. What I've been trying to figure out.

[@shellieperreault6262]

A seraph.

[@jsmith359]

Great Great Study... Awesome tie in w/Isaiah 66 When you look at 2 Thes 2:7 concerning TAKEN=English translation. It’s GINOMAI (1096) in the Greek Ginomai ek mesos Until He ginomai (brings to pass) from out the midst By context His unrestraining I argue This unrestraining begins with the 7 Seals... from the midst of the throne.,, If we believe the rider on the white horse is the antichrist=fits perfectly NOTE Also=NOT a rapture proof text whatsoever... And NOW you know what is restraining=God’s plan through the UNapostate church but once it goes rogue...Antichrist will be allowed to take center stage for 42 months..

[@shopgirlonthehill6714]

Wasnt the destruction of temple a consumation of old cov being completely fulfilled and new cov established? Are we not now living under new covenant and have every spiritual blessing to live godly lives?

[@stacywoldie9291]

Doesn't sound Biblical to me.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Jesus fulfilled the Law -- not the destruction of the Temple which occurred decades later.

[@omnitheus5442]

The destruction of the temple was a sign to the Jews that the Messiah had been and gone. They should have been ready but did not have the oil in their lamps (a remnant did) not to mention Daniel's prophecy. Shopgirl I think you are delineating things far too simply under the guise of an erroneous worldview heavily laden by either Covenant Theology or Dispensationalism. If you are in either camp run! Both are way off!

[@watchmanendtimes]

@@omnitheus5442 disoensationslism that separates Church and Israel is utter heresy

[@tonyduran5845]

Correct. You nailed it girl.

[@brubanville690]

But how could God (he that restrains) be "taken out of the way" in verse 7? Who would take him out of the way? Clarification please

[@shredhed572]

How could He exist in 3 persons?

[@brubanville690]

@@shredhed572 the same way a hypothetical 2 dimensional entity would simply not be able to comprehend our 3 dimensional existence. The same way we can not truly grasp what an existence outside of our 3 spacial dimensions would be like. 1 John 3:2

[@jofo817]

Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would not come unless he (Jesus) departs to Heaven.

[@shellieperreault6262]

The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, aka the Author and Finisher of our faith- when the Father removes Him, we will no longer have His help to grow/sustain faith aka- the Apostasy.

[@yoashka1]

Its the Holy Spirit, who is the Restrainer ! Duh !

[@rustusandroid]

Pre-Wrath. That's the closest I think we got. The rest are nonsensical.

[@bassmanjr100]

About as popular as a burger order at a vegan restaurant might have been better. :)

[@whittakerdanielj]

What about a picture of divorce as the apostasy?

[@shopgirlonthehill6714]

What did they expect that Day of the Lord to be if they thought that they missed it?

[@inmyopinion651]

I think THE day of the Lord will be the day of final judgement and Christ will rule from New Jerusalem which is not of this world. I think the reason they thought they missed it in Pauls days is because they believed or some did that it would happen in that generation.

[@dlbard1]

If you study that time period, there was alot of false teachers around spreading things like gnosticism. Its easy from our perspective to see, but at the time there weren't a lot mature Christians around by todays comparison. Also remember that the whole Bible is not put together yet at that time.

[@leedatsit1799]

@@dlbard1 You think there are more mature Christians around today than the actual apostles of Christ? Wait, what? I agree there were tons of heretics though. Acts alone is full of them.

[@Deacondan240]

The longer I listened to this explanation of 2th2, the more it went in circles, filled with suppositions and inferences, but no solid hermeneutical interpretation. Why? You need the Historicist frame.

[@ru-noble6730]

I hope people noticed how he doesn't point to any outside literature (very unlike him) in his teaching like 1 Enoch where Michael is mentioned over and over. The restrainer is mentioned in Daniel chapters 10 and 12. Jesus told readers to understand (Matthew 24:15) what Daniel said. Why does he go to Revelation 12:7 without mentioning Michael? So Mike totally avoids taking out Michael as being a "possible" option. He mentions Michael but then he doesn't explain why Michael is not the restrainer. Mike does go to the fact that 2 Thes. 2:3 points to Matthew 24, right? Well, Matthew 24:15 points to Daniel, not Isaiah! (Although, I 100% agree with his connecting 1 Thes. to Isaiah 66, as I never saw this before). I think that Mike might have answered half of the question.. he might have nailed the "what" (Isaiah 66) but totally winged it with the "who" (Daniel 10; 12 Revelation 12:7) part of the question! Normally I love his teaching and have totally bought into the Deut. 32 world view.. Maybe Michael just can't stand the fact that the most powerful angel is named after him! Lol It is not "OBVIOUS" who the restrainer is.... the use of metaphor is not obvious ...it is subjective! Isaiah 66 is describing the New Heavens and New Earth from 65:17 thru 66:22. This has not happened yet..... you make it sound as it has... by the way you say it was being fulfilled in Paul's day. The promise was only confirmed in Christ not fulfilled (Romans 15:8). It is NOT the womb...THAT is obvious!

[@42tomasz]

How old are you?

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

It's two events in the same 'day'. Or period of time, even a 1,000 years The day of the Lord is kicked off by His appearing, when the saved are changed and raised from the dead. The lost die, and the already dead lost stay dead. The second resurrection is at the end of the 1,000 years when the saints return to earth with Christ from heaven in the holy city. When the lost are all raised and surround round about the city and are led to attack by Satan who has been the only creatures alive on a desolate 'without form and void' earth also translated bottomless pit. It's the chaistic structure of the cosmos. Part of the last being first and the first being last. They are then destroyed in the lake of fire when Jesus sets foot on the Mt of Olives. (Rev 20)

[@LongNguyen-lx8if]

jamie Russell I see your comments everywhere. Sthu already. Nobody cares what you have to say. People are here to listen to the video; not to read your mumbo jumbo

[@holyspiritsniper3415]

To the staff at The Naked Podcast. Where did you get the concept for the winged creature artwork? Many years ago i had an experience with a supernatural creature that closely resembles this. As soon as i saw the art work i was like “what??!” Thanks in advance.

[@shellieperreault6262]

It's a seraph.

[@holyspiritsniper3415]

@@shellieperreault6262 thank you! I saw one about 7 years ago. Beautiful & gentle. It was able to pass through solid matter. Most amazing thing I’ve ever seen.

[@wesleysimelane3423]

@@holyspiritsniper3415 You can't see this. It resides near God and one of the most powerful of Angels. You would have been pulverized. Or did you mean you had a vision or a dream.

[@holyspiritsniper3415]

@@wesleysimelane3423 Without going into detail, The Most High GOD, Yahweh was speaking to me in supernatural ways during a very dark & life changing season in my life. A radical shift happened after this experience. (Note: i have been a Christ follower for 28 years, 20 at the time of my experience.) Perhaps it was a vision, but i know what i experienced and this being was manifest in the physical. I observed it for approximately 30 minutes. My roommate and his girlfriend showed up as the being was leaving and saw something outside the house, so it wasn’t just me, although they described it as an owl. The most incredible thing I’ve ever seen, or have seen since. As far as being “pulverized” in the presence of such a being i respectfully disagree. Those of us in Christ are new creations and children of the Most High GOD, nothing is impossible for Him to do in our lives. Each of us have encounters with Him, Jesus, Holy Spirit and heavenly beings according to HIS plans and purpose for us. All i know is that when i saw this rendering of a seraph my Father spoke to my spirit that this is what i saw, whether seraph or some other messenger. Respectfully, with love in Christ Jesus.

[@rickhard3979]

Saw I guy on TV. with a bright green Jesus sweater, curb stomping a female protester. That was tough to witness.

[@42tomasz]

Is that Michael on the cover?

[@krisebbeler36]

Why is nobody talking about remember Lot’s wife and the days of Lot. There’s more going on here in the big picture.

[@shopgirlonthehill6714]

Doesn't the bible say that their word went out to all the world? If using hyperbole, would that apply to every "all the world"?

[@dlbard1]

Yes, Col 1:23 if indeed you remain in the faith, established and steadfast and not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

[@ingognito369]

This is the bedrock pre trib rapture killer verse. Because until the man of sin is revealed the gathering together doesnt happen

[@DavidRudat]

The time for the gentile is when the 12 tribe israel becomes the 12 sign zodiac. Every one born is under king David

[@rexcavalier]

This is how I understand 2Thessalonians 2:1-13. How do we interpret this present time? Is it Night or Day? Is it Winter or Summer? About the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we will be gathered with him, we ask you, brothers, to be not easily alarmed or unsettled in your mind by some spirit, words, or letter that it looks like they came from us, saying, "The Day of Christ is already here!" Don't be deceived by anyone or by anything, for that Day will not come until these two events took place: First, 'the people will completely rebel against the Law' then the 'man of lawlessness and the son doomed to destruction must be exposed'. He will oppose soon and exalt himself above any so-called gods or saints. He will set up himself in the church of God proclaiming he is the Most High. Don't you remember? I used to tell these things when I was still with you there. And you know the hindrance now so that he will be exposed at the appointed time. This power of lawlessness is already at work but it is hidden and the one who covers him now will continue to do so till this hindrance is taken out of the way. That will be the time for this spirit of wickedness to be revealed whom the Lord will overpower by the word of truth and destroy by the brightness of his Day! Now, about the reign of this evil one, it will be in accordance with Satan's power and will perform all kinds of counterfeit miracles and wonders, and will use every kind of deceit on those who will perish. They will perish because they didn't receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. This is why he will let them to be ruled by this strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, so that all who delighted in wickedness will be condemned. But we must thank God for you at all times, brothers, you whom the Lord loves. For God chose you from the beginning to be saved by the Spirit's power to make you his holy people and by your faith in the truth. _2Thessalonians 2:1-13, TCM.

[@mishaanton5436]

Dnanidref Solaba ... I think a better translation you can get. It isn't the Church of God he sets himself in. But the Temple of God. Big importance. Especially for the Jews to know. The only place of men He does this is the Temple. It's in Jerusalem. You k that I'm sure.

[@rexcavalier]

@@mishaanton5436 But the apostles teach that the temple of God is made up of living stones not literal ones. To this temple is where God's spirit dwells. But the people of this temple defected from its teachings and embrace falsehood. In order to punish them, God handed his temple or the saints to the Wicked One to test their faith to the fullest. Darkness and wickedness then ruled the world for a thousand years until the ends of the 17th century.

[@cedward5718]

So God is the "restrainer"? Well, how is God doing that? Could it be the church that is taken away, ie., the rapture? Jesus said that you are salt of the earth. Salt is a spoilage preventative.

[@richardfrerks8712]

Firmament

[@whittakerdanielj]

The main questions I always have are: Is 2 Thessalonians 2:7 translated accurately? This is asked because is the restrainer (of what and/or who) a person or a person conducting an action upon oneself or upon another or event? Lastly, is there a restrainer mentioned in other parts of Scripture? Scripture is supported by Scripture. Why is this rule set aside with this discussion?

[@atarahchomah1463]

Through my study, The Restrainer is Michael. See Daniel 12:1, Daniel. Study the word “stand Up”.

[@shellieperreault6262]

The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, aka the Author and Finish of our faith- who keeps us from apostasy.

[@ayunakilowborn8559]

Well retrainer does not specifed for a reason.

[@mauricetooma7989]

The apostasy is when you lot took up the immortal soul, hell, politics and your three headed God. The apostasy came from the successors of the Apostles.

[@clearsky143]

2 THES 2:3 = REV. 12:9 MEASURED AND SEEN!

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

If God is the restrainer, how then does the "until he's removed" section make sense?

[@leedatsit1799]

@LoftOfTheUniverse Yeah, I don't get that either. I think he makes a valid point about not divorcing the Old Testament from the New, but I just can't see the conclusion he reaches. It doesn't feel right, it feels like taking the non-divorcement principle too far, where it just becomes a trip down the rabbit hole. And isn't the restrainer restraining Antichrist here? I think you can take any hermeneutical principle too far.

[@DKay-zq2sn]

το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται (II Thessalonians 2:7 [TR]) “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” (II Thessalonians 2:7 [KJV] Translator's Note to EMTV: Chapter 2 verse 7 is what I consider to be a translation that could have been much better, in the traditional texts........ But the EMTV reads: “For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will continue until one arises from out of the midst.” I cannot find but one instance of “the way” being used to translate “ek mesou”, or “ek mesou genetai”! The literal rendition of this phrase is:“Come into being from out of the midst.” This makes more sense of the following passage: και τοτε αποκαλυφθησεται ο ανομος ον ο κυριος αναλωσει τω πνευματι του στοματος αυτου και καταργησει τη επιφανεια της παρουσιας αυτου (II Thessalonians 2:8 [TR]) “and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,” (II Thessalonians 2:8 [YLT])

[@nelsfiksdal21]

Possible- the restraint or daily holding back of full evil until the revelation of the AC is both the Lord's intention or will to see the fullness of the gentiles believe Jesus is the Messiah (the mission of the church) and His action to do so. So that when the Lord determines the fullness has been established, He can stop Himself for holding back evil. Essentially, it can be seen as the Lord giving protection of outright devastation of the church daily so that it can accomplish its mission. A parallel would be the example of Job. The Lord both intended to protect or bless Job and took action (built a spiritual hedge) around Job's life. And, the Lord removed the hedge only to the point that it reflected His will. He is likely able to put a hedge of restraint throughout the earth in the same way. If He created all things and holds all things together, it's more than possible. I don't think its incongruous to stop taking action (protecting, hedging, restraining) when it aligns with His will. He knows the hearts of each us and collects our tears. He can do both.

[@jofo817]

Jesus (GOD the SON) told the Apostles that GOD the Holy Spirit would not come unless Jesus depart to Heaven.

[@willielee5253]

@@DKay-zq2sn I'm sorry, but I didn't quite get your conclusion at end? Please explain more.

[@prophetpriestking4658]

Isn’t this the Pope or catholic system ?? This was common knowledge

[@shellieperreault6262]

And Orthodox, and Lutheran, and Anglican... You know, all the older denominations with roots that go back two millennium with apostolic succession... There is no wonder why newfangled denominations (especially those that pop up out of nowhere in America) are so biblically, theologically, and doctrinally lost. The connection to Isaiah 66 was awesome- but taking a whole hour to parse out what the historic church has already known is kinda eh... Only those people who belong to churches that teach faith as a work, baptism as a work of obedience, or that you are saved by the decision bell don't see the obvious. For the rest of us who know that the Holy Spirit is the Author and Finisher of our faith, it is gob-smackingly common sense that He is the Restrainer simply because His removal by the Father signals THE GREAT APOSTASY which (obviously) corresponds also to the revealing of Satan.