Navigating Wars of Words as a Journalist - The Carmudgeon Show Jason Cammisa Derek Tam-Scott Ep. 164

Three cars have caused Jason a journalistic existential crisis: the Alfa Romeo Tonale, the Tesla Cybertruck, and the Tesla Model 3 Performance.
Two of them have nothing to do with the cars, and everything to do with the internet backlash from passionate enthusiasts. It's war out there.
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The Carmudgeon Show has a new studio! (Or at least a new look.)
But back to the cars:
All of the innovation in the car industry these days is happening at the nontraditional OEMs. Which necessarily means that all of the interesting stories are about EVs.
And yet every time Jason does a review of an EV, it incites an online war between EV fans and ICE fans. And when Telsa's passionate fans and detractors become involved on X (formerly known as Twitter) it gets personal. Suddenly, Jason is vilified and "loses his credibility."
This reality has caused Jason to take a serious look at the possibility of no longer reviewing new cars. He wonders if his personal interest in them is too small to put up with the backlash - and maybe he should concentrate on the older cars he loves more?
On the other hand, is that letting the armchair warriors win?
Perhaps. But the larger trend, as Jeremy Clarkson pointed out recently, is that new cars are shit.
And it was the Alfa Romeo Tonale that highlighted Jason's concerns. Not because it's a bad car - it's not - but Jason had a hard time getting excited about a 1.3-liter PHEV compact SUV with an Alfa Romeo badge on it. It has none of the qualities he likes in cars. And specifically none of the qualities (other than gorgeous green paint) that he feels are appropriate for a brand like Alfa Romeo.
Hear all about the dissonance on this episode of the Carmudgeon Show.

[@johnsandow2751]

Please don’t stop doing this. Y’all are seriously my favorite two car people. I love getting the notification for the next episode being ready.

[@lilairstrike535]

yes x1000!!!

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

@@johnsandow2751 Yup

[@PEACEOUTXX1]

It's alarming that the tesla cult fans are getting to him though which could make a bias now whenever reviewing their products. Just so he doesn't get hate. Hopefully not but it seems to really effect em.

[@Carameldelight77]

Came here to say this

[@Mo340par]

@@joelcook4140on one episode? Seriously? Are you that unable to see the context here? What is being said that isn’t true, can’t be checked and is ultimately timely in every aspect of our real modern world? Why is San Francisco an issue? Personally love this episode! You can objectively see this all happening and the philosophy of it.

[@Petrol_and_Cabernet]

Jason, recently, someone gave me this advice, "Never take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from."

[@BlueRidgePhantom]

That's a good one... interesting point.

[@BlueRidgePhantom]

That's a good one... interesting point.

[@BlueRidgePhantom]

That's a good one... interesting point.

[@LorraineHinchliffe-vg5cb]

Great advice. Twitter is full of twats anyway 😂.

[@anoopmathew82]

that's solid advice

[@Riversidebluecamaro]

We ❤ your obsessive nature. But we need that unreleased episode STAT! 😂

[@TecnamTwin]

With a NSFW warning

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

JASON!! JASON!! Pls don't stay away from doing stuff. You're one of the very few guys that's kept my love for cars intact, in a time where everyone is shying away from it because of electrification, or no gas-powered cars, and whatever the fcuk else (see what I did there, I've technically not cursed) and I love your content, your wit, your new ideas for presenting otherwise pre-existing content, basically everything you've done so far. You're my source of wit, comedy and knowledge. Pls don't stop doing this stuff. Sometimes, there's a sour tamarind in your lunch, but that doesn't mean you should abandon mid-day meals for the rest of your life, come on! Fanboys are fanboys, that's just how they operate. Ik it's easier said than done from my end but that's the only way to get around it: pretend it doesn't exist. IMO, your content has made the perfect mixture of Top Gear comedy and Engineering Explains science lessons where required, to make some of, if not THE Best Car Content anyone has ever seen in a long time. Just bring back Know It All, and a really good episode for Cammisa's Lap Battle and you'll be the next Jeremy Clarkson in terms of your content, be it with writing, filming, presentation, everything. Pls don't stop doing this permanently, that's a kind request from my end to you. I'll cry more than I cried for the original Top Gear Trio if I see you resign from Automotive Journalism. I'll have no example to follow, no inspiration to continue to do what I'm doing, studying Mechanical Engineering to make the best enthusiasts' cars ever, or - to use your term - steal your job. I fall to your feet and plead, don't stop, don't leave.

[@josephgolio36]

It’s so nice to hear two intelligent and factually informed people speak every Monday after hearing people spew the dumbest opinions I’ve ever heard on social media the rest of the week. Please don’t ever stop.

[@joelbaker2172]

Nowadays, people don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

[@kjyu]

I like the new studio, and the new camera spots idea, but i think it would be better to have more of the person in focus and less of a back of other person. I think maybe 2:1 split from a little greater angle could work! Edit: The camera on Derek was just perfect!

correct. its called "shot reverse shot". I hope the camera placement isnt limited by space, if you get it in the main shot, who cares. Also change the car once in a while, maybe bring one of hyphens.

[@koruki]

As a Tesla fan and owner of them along with Porsches. I can say Jason is my most respected motor journalist. I trust his results regardless of who wins

[@JNAMOTORSPORTS]

And your a douche for owning your government cars

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

The 56k Tesla vs a 150k+ limited edition BMW was ridiculous, you can get a Plaid AND a M3P for that money.

[@revaddict]

​@@JohnSmith-pn2vlDoesn't mean that you can't compare them.. Every one with a half a brain cell knows nothing comes close to Tesla with regards to price/performance ratio..

[@koruki]

@@JohnSmith-pn2vl yeah but he discloses that in the video.

[@andrewlavinski1917]

Jason stop listening to the voices mate, your reviews are in tune with the engineering we care about, your fan-base appreciates the insights you bring to the table and your literally the best reviewer when it comes to technical details..

[@Buuster1999]

I honestly genuinely don't know what I'd do without this podcast, no matter what I'm going through it always brings a smile to my face. You're doing godswork *in my opinion. Thank you guys, truly!

[@JesusRodriguez-tm8go]

I happen to love the Cubertruck episode, really dislike the thing, but love the engineering behind it, and that episode really showcased it. People is irrational, don't listen to them

[@garythecyclingnerd6219]

The lack of criticism of the truck was massively problematic because the subtext is an endorsement of the product. Jason correctly identified this. If I sit there for 40 minutes and describe to you everything that is awesome about the engineering of a Pinto, you might come away thinking “Wow the Pinto was a great car!” Only because we never actually discussed the fact that - as a whole - it’s a terrible product.

[@JesusRodriguez-tm8go]

​@@garythecyclingnerd6219 great point. I have nothing to say against it

[@petrsvetr6083]

well I loved the video and I absolutely did not come out thinking that Cybertruck is great car. Just use your contextual and critical thinking.

[@rainsilent]

@@garythecyclingnerd6219 "The lack of criticism of the truck was massively problematic because the subtext is an endorsement of the product." Not to a logically sound person. "If I sit there for 40 minutes and describe to you everything that is awesome about the engineering of a Pinto, you might come away thinking “Wow the Pinto was a great car!”" Again not to a logically sound person. The Cybertruck video was a discussion on the engineering that went into the vehicle. Anyone with a logically sound mind would logically realize that "awesome" engineering doesn't make a good car, never mind a great one. To get to both conclusions that you offered you have to make a lot of assumptions, meaning jumping to conclusions, while taking some things said out of context. Either that or someone has to enter the proverbial discussion with a preconceived bias. Which was exactly the case with the Cybertruck video. People were going into it with an irrational preconceived bias and when the video either went against, or with, the bias the person in question had they then jumped to a completely irrational conclusion. There is nothing rational or logically sound about this behavior. It is simply someone looking for confirmation bias regardless of the actual facts.

[@ElectricusTus]

​​@@rainsilentyes, but it could have been anticipated that not everyone would react logically.

[@RonJobbins]

Dear Jason, I respected you more for your cybertruck video. I’m not a fan of cybertruck but I am a fan of you. You were able to make me appreciate the engineering.

[@jhobaugh45]

1,000% agree. I would have never known about the awesome engineering of the cybertruck and would have been an ignorant detractor of the CT without that video. I still think it's ugly and don't want one, but love the substantial progress made. Jason has the best CT video by far and I highly value his opinion given his background and commitment to quality!

camissa: nothing has changed in ICE porsche: (next day) hold my lager, let me patent a 6 stroke engine

[@pan4632]

- dual direct/port injection - mazda skyactiv - pre-chamber combustion (maserati) - Hybrids, MHEVs, PHEVs, E-Turbos - variable compression - variable geometry turbos - electronic wastegates - no lift shift on manual transmissions - cylinder deactivation

[@pdcichosz]

@@pan4632 I'm pretty sure adding an auxiliary electric powerplant doesn't qualify as a breakthrough in the internal combustion technology tho ;)

[@Munkenba]

⁠@@pan4632all of that is kindof lipstick on a pig no? If I want combustion, I want it to be unapologetically combustion. Carbs, NA, maybe air cooled and no plastic covering panels. Maybe this is an emotional argument but ice cars only appeal to me on an emotional level. If I want a modern, rational consumer product, electric cars just do the job without feeling like they have a bunch of accessory technologies bolted on to marginally lessen the original “sin” that is burning fuel.

[@galactictomato1434]

Lots of untenable things get patented. Lets see it in production.

[@TheImperfectGuy]

​@@pan4632more specially Skyactiv-X (Petrol engines with Diesel-style compression ignition)

[@tiredoworking9350]

The takeaways from this episode: "Frosts my cookies" and "Tickle my pickle". 😂 Thoughtful episode as well.

[@hduncan2587]

Definitely a Henry Catchpole Hagerty-plug vibe, for sure.

[@franciscoguerrero7438]

Jason your work is appreciated in amounts that you can’t measure. I don’t want to see influencers videos. You guys are the only show I look forward to watch and listen

[@rmblue22]

Jason please don't stop - your work is the best. more people silently appreciate what you do than the loud minority that shouts at you.

[@rdiamond655]

There are almost no automotive commentators/reviewers who come at a car from such an enthusiastic and analytic perspective. Most gush unapologetically about every car because they are fearful of losing access to cars and therefore are 'diplomatic' about what they say. And most of them don't know why they like or dislike something about the driving experience. You will always inspire vitriol from the casual viewer because they don't think, they just react. Because of you two, when I've had the opportunity to drive some amazing cars with Paul and Todd from EDD/HOD on their adventures, I've been able to discern what I like about each car and have now found the key aspects of a car that I'm looking for, so thank you. I now can understand and appreciate the engineering and design aspects of various cars while knowing that it's not a car that i would own and why.

[@johngustafsonn]

Derek "tickle my pickle" Tam-Scott 🤣 🤣

[@istvanlorinczi2817]

New set AND swear jar means we can get the bullshit button back? Also, don't know when you guys recorded this episode, but I do hope you will (in some way) remember Bruno Sacco's legacy

[@TheLastMoccasin]

100% agree with everything you guys said. Also, as a former Tesla employee, investor and follower for 7+ years, I can say that the true Tesla community respects what you do, and wants you to continue doing it. Unfortunately, over the past few years, a new group of hateful individuals, who are just looking for attention, have latched onto Tesla (and it's CEO more so) and it's embarrassing. Please keep doing what you are doing, keep a focus on facts, have fun and enjoy what you love doing, because we enjoy watching you do it!

[@betodo9984]

Jason, say hello to the 202X's internet: A place where fact, justice, and logic doesn't really matter. Only the one with the loudest volume, firmest stand and biggest "balls" , that could rule the street. Btw, I highly suggest you listen to welcome to the internet by bo burnham. It really sum up the kinda people you're dealing with

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

True. Just summed up everything I wanted to say. It's horrible to live in a world where "feelings" and "rage" overrule facts, logic and justice. It only makes me rage even more, so ig I'll just shut up, or else I'll fill twice as many of those bowls with $100 bills.

[@faust451]

I'll add on to the OP's comment, there is also this terrible mentality of 'if you're explaining, you're losing'. So if you find yourself battling lies/misinformation with point-by-point rebuttals, it is often met with dismissal or further mockery.

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

@@faust451 True, so true. All I want is this sort of bull...crap shouldn't devour Jason and his expertise away. I know it won't, there are many other platforms, but still, at this point, it's not just true for this sort of stuff, but for anyone and everyone like Jason or us even, that believes in facts, and reality and justice. It's genuinely horrible rn.

[@air-headedaviator1805]

Its the nature of Social Media platforms like that. The ones designed to push engagement for profit push conflict

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

On the subject of Tesla, I had a running dialogue about this before I left the house. With myself of course, because that's what normal people do. Here's the thing about Elon Musk, and please excuse me while I waffle for a bit. He's put together an image of himself and a reputation (and thus, a fanbase) that is diametrically opposed to the stereotypical liberal zoomer internet user (I say this as a zoomer and internet user and a bunch of other things). The people Elon has managed to piss off are the most terminally online, apathetic, and emotionally numb people of them all. This is not without good reason, but the consequence is that they're not willing to hear a person out (good on faust451 for calling that out, i.e. "if you're explaining, you're losing"). There's many reasons why zoomer humor is the way it is, but part of it is exhaustion: this is a generation that has consumed so much data - pleasurable or very much otherwise - that barely anything makes a dent in them anymore. So, what happens when a complicated subject matter starts being commented on by people with neither the expertise to even land in the same zip code as the answer nor the desire to even try to inch closer? Welcome to 2024. Discourse died. Soundbites won. I think I just said the same things you lot said but with more words, but whatever. I'm posting this anyway 😤

[@macronato]

I absolutely love this new setup. Soooo good:) And you both are literally my favorite people to listen to about cars, thank you so much for doing this:)

[@arkhos599]

As an owner of a '24 M3P, I LOVED your video on the '3-way' between the Mercedes, BMW, and Tesla (No $100 in the bowl from me! Whew!). The fact that the 'little brother' of the Plaid is in the same -conversation- as the BMW and Mercedes just amazes me (and for a lot less $). Please understand that the 'fanboys' you've had bad experiences with represent a minority, while those of us who don't get butt-hurt if our particular vehicle doesn't 'win every time' find your videos useful, engaging, and valuable. For you to consider modifying the series due to a few bad apples only punishes those of us who are reasonable and level-headed and enjoy the reasonable discourse. EV haters, as misguided as they are, are hoping that by badgering you, you -do- abandon any and all examination of the platform. Please do not fall victim to shameless trolls, when your product is far and away more valuable to car enthusiasts than any internet warrior's dribbling. Thank you for a great video, and this great follow-up video! :)

[@_Ezio__Auditore_]

No one cares about Tesla fanatics...other than other Tesla fanatics...ignore them

[@manchuriancandidatethe3rd101]

but yea you do care, you're adding to politicizing of EV/Tesla that these two are criticizing to be insufferable.

[@boostav]

Ignore the Tesla haters too, which given your omission we can presume you're part of?

[@spacebound1969]

Can you shut the fuck up? Half the hate was from BMW fan girls who couldn't admit that Tesla built a product that competes well with what BMWs halo child product is.

[@georgepal9154]

Legacy car companies do in fact pay people to say nice things about their cars. Thats why they can't believe you'd say genuine nice things for free. Don't stop, Jason. You are an awesome automotive journalist with a genuine unbiased voice and an interest in things we actually care about, in a world of sellouts and biased sponsored ads disguised as genuine reviews. I saw that last video and I appreciated you showed the strengths of each power train in different scenarios. I dont actually care about which cars end up in your videos because I know you pick the most interesting ones. I do agree that electric cars from the non legacy companies are the most interesting ones lately. But I watched your icons video on the ford mustang and enjoyed it just as much. I've definitely learned more about all cars, and the stories behind them, thanks to you.

[@FinnishCarGuys]

Jason - it isn't a war. It's the internet going zombie. Think of the internet like an empty echo chamber of bots trying to rile each other up. Please, pay no attention to it, because the humans out here are still enjoying your content, even if we don't agree with you all the time.

[@joecutro7318]

I have always had tremendous respect for both of you in your chosen fields. That respect has now quadrupled for the exquisite ways you have captured and described the underlying causes of human angst in the human condition through your chosen fields. Please don't stop, don't change what you're doing for ANYONE or ANYTHING except to follow your own hearts, minds and consciences. I love what you do, how you articulate it and how you live it OUT LOUD. Big love! ❤

[@Adrb22]

What?!? Jason you Gained credibility because of your honest and unbiased reviews. Don’t lose hope in humanity. Time will give you credit for your honest work

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

a Model S Plaid and a Model 3 performance TOGETHER, cost less than that BMW M3 CS, it was a ridiculous comparison.

[@taylorcioffi4009]

Thank you guys for what you do. Your passion is why i listen. Dont change and dont let the internet warriors change you.

[@levterterian8219]

Brilliant episode gentlemen. Please do keep up the good work as it not only insightful but also entertaining as well.

[@Jayram2K]

Please never stop Icons and new cars, they are the best works of automotive journalism/entertainment out there right now.

[@danflannery9543]

One of the best conversations that Iv listened to in awhile

[@puddud4]

I'm devestated that Jason wishes he didn't make the Cybertruck video. The day the Cybertruck video came out was the best day of my entire year. I was in the lunch room of my community college trying to study for a final but I couldn't help myself. I watched the Cybertruck video 3 times back to back. What I learned in that video felt so much more important than anything else in my life that day. At the time I was trying to decide between getting an associates degree or a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. I'm 27 and I live with my mom. There was a lot of pressure to get any job I could and move out. My family wanted me to get my associates but I knew I could be so much more. I knew watching that the Cybertruck video that I saw something special. Something so few people are capable of understanding or appreciating. I knew this feeling because I had felt it before. In 2016 I sat in my dorm room, failing out of an accounting degree. Nothing in life made sense. I wanted to die. I wasn't talking to anyone. I didn't go to class. I could barely take care of myself. The only thing I could do was think about cars. I saw Jason's 911 R video. In it he places the car at a crossroads. One road lead to a sterile track weapon, the other lead to a fun but imperfect drivers car. Jason popped the clutch and did a donut into the road with the fun driver's car. I wept because for the first time in months I felt powerful. I knew I saw something special that so few people were capable of understanding. I knew that I was capable of so much more. I felt that I wasn't crazy, there was just something wrong. From that day forward I no longer dreamt of dying. I dreamt of spending every dollar I had on a Miata and going wherever the road took me. Fast forward a few years In May of 2021 I bought a Miata. It's a manual ND1 that I rent out on Turo. It has over 100 trips. I'm friends with many of my past renters, I've taken the car on dozens of road trips and have taught many of my friends how to drive stick. I'm so glad that I came up with a different dream. Watching the Cybertruck video I came up with another dream. I would get an engineering bachelor's degree. There were so many stunning innovations present in the Cybertruck. I will do whatever it takes to be a part of something like that. Since the Cybertruck video I've passed calc 1 and 2. By this time next year I'll have transferred to ASU. I'm so glad that I'll be more than a technician. It breaks my heart to know that you were hurt by the Cybertruck video. I hope my story can help you to recognize the good your work has done. There are so few people capable of teaching the world about EVs in the way that you do. If you do move on I understand that great things will continue to come. I listened to this podcast while driving Tortilla Flats with my brother. It's our last drive together before he moves to Seattle. Change can be good. Ps I helped him get his first car, a mk7.5 gti 😁

[@galactictomato1434]

Jason, please don't stop doing new cars. Don't let haters and internet trolls stop you. We appreciate your work.

[@JohnSmith-pn2vl]

he admitted to reading WSJ articles, he is literally full of it.

[@JohnTallodi]

5% of the viewers are always going to have issue with anything you do. 90% will love it. 10% will struggle with working out percentages. Look at the vast majority of the comments, we love what you guys do.

[@stefanfrey9618]

Hearing how Twitter / the internet / other members of the online car community etc. made Jason question his role in this industry cut so incredibly deep and made me feel sick. Quite honestly I love the cybertruck review for what it is, a deep dive into the tech and innovations that made. I think we can all agree it’s not a good car, but the video wasn’t about that. Unfortunately people struggle to have the intelligence to absorb things through the prism of which it was intended. I love your content and it truly brings me joy when I see a new video from one of you. Most of your audience is intelligent enough to absorb your content within it the context it is created and its point of view. Keep doing what you’re doing, both of you.

[@andrewy6527]

Echoing all the comments about please keep going, you are one of the few lights in this automotive era. On the upcoming episode, can you please discuss the pros/cons of EVs in regards to whether they offer blended braking?? Would really love to get your POV

[@zoepolzin87]

Don’t stop! We love what you guys do and appreciate all the reporting. I’m a long-term Tesla "fanboy" who’s a Republican and doesn’t care about political influence related to any car company. I truly get upset when people make decisions on companies based on the CEO's opinion on any topic. Who cares and why should they? I care about the PRODUCT I choose!

[@nbmaheswara]

A bit nitpicky but i think Jason's camera should be moved a little bit...i prefer Derek's cam, idk probably it's a better use of space with rule of thirds. Love the new look though!

[@OdyTypeR]

Jason: You're a Journalist in a world of "creators". Don't change, and please don't leave. F the haters. Derek: You haven't driven an 86/BRZ? Is that because you don't want to be disappointed by it, after everyone has talked it up?

[@dyhppyx]

Thank you Jason

[@willsullivan3]

Awww, we love you and what you do HERE, Jason!

[@zimman1]

If the Tesla was in "Track Mode" during the drag races, that likely slowed it by 1-3 tenths and 1-3 mph. It's as simple as that. If it wasn't in Track Mode, state that. If it was, state that too. And next time you drag race a Tesla, by all means DON'T use Track Mode, which is intended for road-course use and does everything possible to keep the drivetrain cool, lowering maximum output slightly but improving endurance. All that notwithstanding, THANK YOU for demonstrating the real-world, floor-it-and-go performance of these 3 cars. That was the most telling demonstration of all!

[@joshb.1118]

Keep on doing what you do. Ignore the haters. You are absolutely right about where the innovation is happening...the rest of of the car industry is benefing from it.

[@FlatironsTuning]

For what it is worth Jason, I'd say so far you have been absolutely correct about the new Model 3 Performance so far. I have now put just over 2,000 miles on mine, and your initial review was the last piece of information that convinced me it would be worth checking out. I absolutely love the car. You are doing the testing and you have the data. You have a firm grounding for your opinion. Well researched and tested ideas will stand the test of time. Please keep doing what you all are doing as it will hopefully help encourage more of us to go out and drive more cars and come to our own conclusions about things. This is all coming from a Subaru driver too. PS. We aren't all that bad :-)

[@eugenux]

good luck h&t-ing your tesla before a corner or a roundabout.

[@serrynaimo]

Jason, please don't be hard on yourself. I looooved the Tesla reviews and so many people I know did because so many other people don't like to surface the amazing work that goes into these cars. I watched your Icons Cypertruck episode 4 times and only someone with your experience and skill could've made it so authentic and damn good. It'd be a shame if you would have said no to it. Please fall back to the simple rule to just don't listen to haters and stay as honest as you are.

[@skadonkza]

Finding out Carmudgeon and Revelations are filmed in the same room has broken my brain a little bit. This is like when you're a kid and seeing your parents do tooth fairy duties.

[@neilwright4881]

Jason, I normally never comment on your videos, but the Cybertruck video is the best example for me why you are absolutely the most important automotive journalist right now IMO. It might have not been clear to everyone, but my friends and I found it so refreshing to not only present such a controversial car objectively but to show how the engineers are actually sparking real change in the industry through it. It's so unfortunate to hear people completely ignoring their innovative work because Elon is a dick. If you stop I'll patiently wait for the next game changing automotive journalist.

[@jonathanbryant2439]

Your review of the Tesla Highland Model 3 Performance was what pushed me over the line to get one. Why? Because you were the first non-“drooling Tesla fanboy” to give it an honest review. You very clearly knew what the (swear jar) you were talking about and you clearly had issues with Tesla’s engineering in the past but you still judged it fairly on the merits and said “It’s a good car” That was my first Carmudgeon episode, and I’ve been a loyal viewer ever since. And now Icons, and all the others. Your content is great and incredibly worthwhile. Don’t stop. Don’t ever stop.

[@Brian_Urban]

Never Stop Carmudgeoning

[@caddyzig]

Please don’t let this stuff get under your skin too much, Jason. Political polarization and constant bickering is incredibly tiresome, and it’s making life so much less pleasant. I love your opinions and personality, your enthusiasm and your knowledge. You guys are awesome! Read some comments, but don’t get discouraged by the trolls. They’ll always be there. (Oh, and I love it when you swear!)

[@S8ER]

I think it would be interesting to see "inside baseball" episodes in the future, I enjoyed hearing behind the scenes here and I think showing people what's going on really takes away any criticism people may have. I've seen in the past where a few edits caused controversy, and I am not sure it's obvious that the filmed portion appears to be a recreation of the results and not the actual runs which were done to get the results. I am guilty of getting lost in the videos and spotting something that appears to invalidate the results because I am not happy with the results themselves. A peak behind the curtain might shut some of us up...at least for a few minutes.

[@Poorschedriver]

yes! I want to know how the sausage is made. Knowing all of the hard work that goes into every episode makes us appreciate them that much more.

[@emiliorescigno]

I'm a Tesla owner, but definitely not a Tesla fanboy, and I find the discourse that surrounds the car on "both sides" absolutely exhausting. "Tesla people" get defensive and bitchy when I make legitimate critiques of the car, like the poor implementation of radar cruise, or major regressions in the user interface. On the flipside, the "anti-Tesla people" accuse me of being a fanboy when I lay out what I like most about the car, which is the quick steering, supercharger network, and relative light weight compared to the competition (a Model 3 Performance is a full 850 pounds lighter than an Ioniq 5 N everyone!). All the while, the fact that I own a Tesla seems to "define" who I am on the outside to car enthusiasts, who conveniently ignore the fact that I also drive a Lotus Elise and Honda S2000. Am I known as the "high revving naturally aspirated roadster guy"? Nope. I'm the "Tesla guy".

[@TheLastMoccasin]

I honestly think it's a symptom of the 2 party system in America. You either need to be "team red" or "team blue" and it's ruining the country. Now that "make a hysteria so they choose a side BS" is infecting more and more things as the politicization virus just keeps spreading. Very sad to see.

[@Drivenapollo]

100% agree with why icons, and every other show you are in is excellent! I want the data and the facts. I don’t like the cybertruck, but the innovation is impressive. That’s how I left from that video. I leave with knowledge. The drag race one with the slow motions is amazing. The results are the results. People see one race, and assume that’s all that happened that day. I love the sounds the cars make, the emotion from Jason, and the explanations of the cars. If I don’t gel with someone online, I just don’t watch / listen to them. I want true facts. I watch many people to have a rounded opinion. A good idea or factual information is amazing to hear regardless of what side of politics someone stands on. I hope icons remains, but people have become to shitty. I doubt it will last, and I would want to end it too if I was in Jason’s shoes. Love the podcast, the videos, and the shows, and Randy is an epic driver!

[@blaineadams7484]

I'm sorry Jason, this is the world we inhabit. There are people who love you, people who hate you, and most don't care. Unfortunately now you get to hear from them. Nothing has really changed except everyone has a platform now. And Joe is just some guy talking, never an expert.

[@joseroldan9247]

I’ve always appreciated and valued the insight, the discussion, and opinions the two of you share. While I am not always agree with the two of you, I regularly tune, listen to your podcasts, watch your videos because of the value you two bring to the automotive world. Am I a vaunted Volkswagen fanboy?! Heck no, but I appreciate automobiles from all makes and models and energy source because of their engineering and human ingenuity. Don’t change your mission because of few haters. You have a platform, use it freely.

[@TheOnlyMrDinoHenry]

This video was incredible. I was too nervous to say this in Monterey but you are my favorite journalist and I really appreciate hearing what you have to say about things. Thanks for the honesty shared during this conversation!

[@justaddafan]

Matt Ferrah looked like a total jerk, which is not surprising when you let your political bias drive outlook on a car. Jason - you handled that discussion in such a fantastic way.

[@garythecyclingnerd6219]

Everyone’s political bias drives their outlook on life, including you. Ignoring the *fact* that conservatives don’t live in reality, just look at economic sentiment every time the White House changes hands. It was - according to conservatives - apocalyptic under Obama. But as soon as Trump was in, suddenly conservatives switched.

[@NO3V]

@@garythecyclingnerd6219 You seem more biased than other-dude. Just saying.. Having listened to Roger Farah's son's Podcast since episode one (until I stopped and only listen if I like the guest), the ex-drug-dealer nepo-baby who got his internet fame from driving other peoples cars recklessly on public roads (non of this is debatable) nowadays deserves the following amount of respect:

[@garythecyclingnerd6219]

@@NO3V I am biased because conservatives deserve to be biased against. No more of the “muh both sides”. No, one side is objectively significantly worse by every single metric and deserves to be called out until they come back to reality. As for Matt, sure, call him a nepo baby drug dealer all you want. That’s some S tier mischaracterization that I would expect from a prosecutor. It’s irrelevant. The point is that everyone has bias and it colors your opinions. Sometimes biases are earned. I am biased against swimming with sharks too.

[@jdcarguy1242]

​@garythecyclingnerd6219 only the left can justify such hate. The right judges actions which are counter to human nature ideals. Which ideal do you not conform to, to harbor such hate?

[@bencausey]

@@garythecyclingnerd6219Then why don’t I know the political bias of most other car reviewers?

[@sp129]

1. Messrs. Cammisa & Tam-Scott, I applaud your restraint, sir! Petition for the swear-bowl to feature in future episodes. 2. Another petition to get Derek into a GR86/BRZ asap. Hopefully, it creates the dilemma of keeping/selling his C43 AMG (Ep 94). That should be a good episode. 3. A bit surprised to hear about all this toxicity since the YT comments seem overwhelmingly positive. Nonetheless, I'd assume they are a small minority; it's just that people with the strongest opinions--right or wrong--also tend to be the loudest. Whenever you read something upsetting, take solace in the fact that those "kind" commenters are vastly outnumbered by people who truly appreciate your work. 4. Final petition for Icons to continue featuring new cars.

[@Tiger-pu4oz]

Jason, don’t let the political and brand trolls 🧌 get you frustrated. Keep giving your honest to good reviews & test of new and old vehicles. You are a good to source to many people who are enthusiasts of automobiles just like yourself. They are the ones that matter. They are your core audience. Those that do personal insults are not your core audience. They are trolls 🧌 just trolling. Don’t engage with them or their comments. Keep doing new cars. Because just when I thought, I knew about a certain new car and come to your review of it. I realize you bring your own unique perspective to it and I end up learning new things about it. Keep up the good work! Automotive world is a better place with your content.

[@MegaNardman]

Last thought: Looking through these comments, there's a common thread of love. It's not an echo-chambery fake love, though. It comes from a group of individuals who share a passion for motoring of all flavors, who don't attach their identity to their cars, who aren't shy to critique statements they disagree with through a nuanced response (sorry for calling you a VW-homer in another comment thread, JC...wait a minute, I'm not sorry for that. You are a VW homer!)... I lost my train of thought, but yeah, the work you guys are doing is unique and special, and the audience you've curated reflects that. Please don't stop what you're doing and what you're passionate about for a bunch of fucking CHUDs on Tw*tter; don't give them that value. 💚

[@blw3331]

Truth is the cybertruck is actually a decent truck. You did nothing wrong and I appreciate you championing that disagreement. People are going hate things they don’t understand and you can’t let that bother you.

[@pgbeaver]

Jason, please don’t ever stop doing this! Those of us who appreciate your content the most simply don’t get into the comments section because we have more interest in facts than fighting. I never comment, but I LOVE your videos. Please keep reviewing new cars.

[@Stefan-Forster]

Never stop driving… and never change!

[@janissaryone1906]

Jason you're one of the very few car reviewers I trust. Every other reviewer should seriously look at themselves to see if they can meet the same high bar as yourself in terms of journalistic integrity while still being both informative and entertaining. I think you should do a "Making of ... " outro to tell how the episode was made with tens of runs and controlled conditions so people are made aware.

[@andrewowen5543]

Hi Derek if you're reading (I know Jason doesn't read this). Please let Jason know that he's the reason I persuaded my wife to get an e-Golf and also that I'm still driving a 2013 GT86. I found both the Cybertruck video and the drag race video informative and entertaining. Also, I miss BTS with DTS.

[@danf4037]

The tesla is nearly 2x less expensive. its an amazing value for the money. Mind blowing value really. Your journalistic integrity is why I am now a subscriber and actively seek out your opinion. I never knew objective car reviews existed until I saw your brain conundrum in real time working through your thoughts on the cyber truck. Keep it up!

[@VilleWitt]

As a Tesla fan - and engine lover - I love their first principle approach. As a German I love proper hardware. I listen to Joe Rogan once or twice a month, and I don’t remember him hating electric but he loves the craftsmanship of mechanical excellence, both Rolex, and Porsche. Who doesn’t?!? Great show, keep up the integrity. BTW, I recommend the Elon Musk Joe Rogan episodes to any electric engineer.

[@welles28]

It's refreshing to hear Jason deliberately NOT doing his usual schtick of being performatively outrageous.

[@mandriod]

Tesla Owner, just want to start by saying that I find your reviews and perspective to be completely fair whether it is in favor or not in favor of Tesla. I respect the effort you all put in, and I think that some more behind the baseball in some of the script might help stem some of the tide. I think I can shed some light as to why the reaction has been so extreme when Tesla is reviewed by you positively or negatively. My estimation is the history of how Tesla has been reviewed and reported in the news (completely before Elon politicization). Original coverage of Tesla was extremely negative. Whether it be Top Gears original review that made claims about the battery that weren't true from car logs, to disproportionate coverage over car fires, or any issue they had in the early days. Constant coverage with the Bob Lutz or others of the legacy industry shitting on the company or it's cars. The Tesla fan community had grown used to media artificially inflating negativity against Tesla that wasn't deserved and I think still harbor that reviews that aren't entirely positive are coming from that realm. In the same vein, everyone who has been super pro ICE car or anti EV in general are used to being shoveled opinions about how EV's and Tesla's are crap and can't compete with their favorite car and so when someone like you objectively reviews them they assume you must be being paid to do so. It's undeserved from either camp to you. My hope is that instead of backing down, that more people take your approach and do objective reviewing instead of what they are used to seeing which is usually biased. In doing so, the reception of what are the objective facts about the cars and the company will not be as inflammatory to the audience.

[@phrogfrog3623]

Jason, a comment from someone who is a fan of Tesla and EVs but also tries to be as fair as possible: I think that you do a great job at highlighting both the good and bad parts of Tesla/EVs. The fact that you're catching flak from both the ICE and EV sides in the strangely politicized car world means you are doing something right. Keep on doing what you're doing; fair criticism and praise will make things better for all car people.

[@leoedward7363]

Jason trust your internal compass as to what’s interesting. Has worked so far

[@NewbombTurk.]

To be fair, those of us who have been around for a number of years (long enough to remember the malaise era at least) have always had an issue with the government dictating how cars have been engineered/built. It's nothing that new. The idea of a removal of choice seems to be the divide. The dictating of fuel mileage wasn't a direct mandate from the government to use turbos, it was the best possible option that many automotive companies decided to follow engineering wise. The possible removal of all ICE new cars sold in states like California is a bit different, that's the removal of choice that is a step too far for many people. It's amazing to think that California was the origin point for "hot rodding" and will be the death of custom car building in the modern day.

[@huso7796]

Jason, could you make an episode comparing the new gen vs traditional E/E architecture and ECU history? Really interesting to hear that tier-one suppliers are steering the future of German car companies.

[@Despair05]

Loving the new camera angles!

[@Joseph-vh5fh]

Cammisa is my favorite auto journalist ever and I purchased my car based on his review and love it. When I saw him do the Cybertruck review I was really happy to see him get the mainstream exposure he deserves.

[@erwin-franz]

Love your work Jason, don’t quit ever!!!

[@dsimmortal]

Icons, revelations, carmudgeon show, and ultimate drag race are all excellent shows to watch. So long as you feel like you have interesting content to share with us please keep them going. Most of us are silent appreciators of the content you create. I hope you'll figure out a way to filter out the garbage comments.

[@kingjaf]

Jason, you know the internet gave voice to thousands of , and X gave them all an unfiltered megaphone. On behalf of the silent majority; we don't question your integrity, we value your professionalism, and love your detail oriented geekery. I don't know what the automotive media version of an Emmy is, but your video with Matt Farah was much needed exemplar of actual discourse and worthy of wider societal praise. "Don't let the grind you down"

[@Jadawin-kk3fz]

Dear Jason, maybe you are still reading comments. I really like the way you do your job. You are very well informed about the topic at hand; you and the team gather data not knowing the outcome and present us a result in a very special way, which is greatly appreciated throughout the petrolhead world. Your collaborations with the other Jason (EE) and the Thomas and James from TH is always hilarious and informativ at the same time. The chemistry between you and Derek creates a wonderful space to listen to. There are exactly two reasons why I watch Hagerty on KZbin. One is called Henry, the other is you. Your work matters. And you and your team are doing a brilliant job.

[@kevinyoung1345]

It's simple, Jason, your skin ain't thick enough yet. Toughen it up. Internet comments are often MEANT to get under your skin, so it's working. For them, the fact that you're making a whole episode about them means their goals were achieved.

[@tonyflorio3269]

Man, GM! Early pioneer in EVs -- the EV1 -- literally scraps the project. Joint venture with Toyota on hybrids. Walks away from the project. Early innovator in plug-in hybrids with the Volt. Drops the strategy just when hybrids go mainstream. GM can engineer darn near anything but has a frustrating legacy of head-scratching product planning decisions that never ceases to amaze me.

[@thornesrocks173]

I love you guys. And I’m sure there are many more that feel the same way. I didn’t find the Cybertruck episode problematic. I’m not a fan of Musk. But I can certain appreciate the engineering that went into making it. Tesla was a company before there was a Phony Stark. Your take seemed perfectly reasonable and objective. I agree as well with your take on the current media landscape of sequestered thought. The echo chambers keep us from learning and fulfilling the social contract as a free thinking society. Sorry for the ramblings…I appreciate what you do for the enthusiast community and car culture would lesser without you in it!

[@russvague2748]

Great episode. Don’t change Jason! You are the best!

[@Kalepsis]

Love the change of venue. And I appreciate that you actually read some of the comments.

[@MegaNardman]

Wow, what a thought-provoking episode. I'm sorry the catalyst for this was so much personal strife. This one stoked a lot of things I wanted to put into comments (especially since you'll probably read some of them), so I'll split them up to not turn things into one big wall of text. My first, biggest take-away from this episode is that much of the criticism you (Cammisa) take on EV reviews has less to do with a person's politics (though it is an element, specifically around Tesla) and more to do with how people identify in modern society. Quite simply, many modern individuals attach their identity to the things they own; you two have even called out how a choice of car in many ways is a person's avatar. There's manifold factors leading to this: declining wealth, capitalism in general, scarcity, lack of common space (and yes, political polarization too), etc. Ultimately, though, this is why that theoretical tenth matters so much to these people; it's not that their favorite car came 2nd to a bimmer in a drag race, it's that THEY came 2nd to a bimmer. This is why people pore over these videos frame-by-frame to pick them apart...they have to find someone/something else to blame. The point I'm trying to make is that in many ways, you (Jason, geez I hope you read this one) are back-stopping a lot of mental unrest that has nothing to do with track mode, prepped surfaces, or any other tangible factor. This is where sometimes it may be best to give yourself a break from the comments, or X, or whatever verbal sewage you happen to be wading through at the time. It's OK to give yourself a pass sometimes. I don't think that's falling into an echo chamber, that's just loving yourself enough to know that you deserve to not engage with every lunatic screaming in the street.

[@1440dvsone]

Harrison Ford once said: They will criticize you for what you are, for what you are not, and for what they think you are. They will judge you for what you do, for what you don't do, and for what you fail to do. They will talk about you for what you say and for what you keep silent about. They will point at you for your successes and for your mistakes, for your decisions and for your doubts. No matter how much you try to please, there will always be opinions. So, live for yourself, because in the end, the only thing that matters is being true to your own path.

[@ZachPrimo]

I think the politicization of electric vehicles is a manifestation of the broader trend of “culture war.” It’s a perfect storm - a this-or-that choice which ostensibly reflects party lines and is therefore easily co-opted by politicians, mainstream media, and morons. Sucks that it’s affecting you in this way, as one of the few people in the world who really seems to have found their professional calling. Hopefully, this too shall pass. All love. Thanks for putting out such quality products week after week.

[@justinschultz4325]

It is sad that the propulsion system of a car became politicized. I see merit in ICE and EV... Therefore, I own a F150 and a Polestar.

[@eugenux]

@@justinschultz4325 yeah..but the world governments don't; for them it is only black or white; personally, the only thing that I dislike on EVs is the lack of involvement in the act of driving...almost pref. to see them drive themselves. The lack of the 3rd pedal and actual gears means, for me, that I will never be fully satisfied in owning one, especially a fast one. I also believe that, pretty much, every driving enthusiast should think/feel in a similar way.

[@justinschultz4325]

@@eugenux I'm not attacking... Simply asking - Have you driven a modern EV with proper one pedal driving calibration? I feel very involved in the driving experience when operating the car in one pedal driving mode. Much more so than a automatic ICE. But, I take your point about a manual transmission ICE. No EV will fully replace that experience.

[@bendarat]

Guys. Great discussion, loving the new set and camera angles and what not. You guys are one of the very few current automotive media outlets I could be bothered with these days because of the honest nature of this podcast. PS Derek, PLEASE bring back BTS w/ DTS.

[@ukwan]

It's such a shame to see the utter collapse of the VW Group's world beating cars... Twin turbo V10 Estates, VR6 AWD Golfs, Quad Turbo W16 Hyper Cars, W8 Saloon cars.. they just made the coolest fucking shit on the planet. Now I can't think of much within the group I'd want. Porsche being the exception.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Previously" World beating cars.

[@ukwan]

​@@rogerstarkey5390yes 💯🤚 this was what I was trying to say 😂

[@rahulmandala4930]

Yeah, Piech era VW was something else…Loved that era❤

[@flacjacket]

There Bentley Flying Spur and new Conti are pretty enticing as well, but so divorced from what normal people can afford that they are barely relevant.

[@Cypress_green]

Well even Porsche's stuff is pretty much useless on the road these days bcs the gears are so long..

[@VanderJam]

Listened to the audio version and later saw this scrolling through my feed. I listened to this whole episode picturing you in that office. The new studio looks fantastic. Well done! The On Air neon is brilliant.

[@novaklaser]

I enjoy your show because I learn new things every episode. You give the facts and if facts hurt people's feelings, the facts don't change. If we are talking feelings, I don't think a few tenths of a second make me feel all that fast.

[@rudyadjetey5120]

Jason, please do not change sharing your opinion. I've watched your cybertruck review at least 5 times. I don't always agree with you but I do appreciate your insights. Keep up the good work.

[@elitevet4266]

Jason and Derek are two SUCH fine human beings. Jason, you can do whatever, not even car related and it will be nice and ppl will watch it.

[@ferrarista27]

Hey Jason, you should do an episode Model 3 performance vs Ioniq 5 N drag and lap test.

[@reedjackson8834]

The Hagerty motto is “Never Stop Driving”. Please listen to that motto! There’s a reason I don’t listen to Joe Rogan or Chris Harris, I don’t respect their opinions for many other reasons you list. Their views are narrow. The world needs the balance of Jason. Perhaps the motto should be “Jason, never stop driving“ I wish I could give on advice on how to ignore the detractors, but sadly I cannot. Reference check: my garage speaks to the types of drivers you guys are. An EV for daily commute. And a Volvo P1800 in the garage for other things. Just drive.

[@gagedykstra8602]

I think you should produce whatever automotive content you want. We don’t matter. The shows you put on are for our enjoyment and if people aren’t happy with your content then they can watch someone else. I want you to keep going because you go so far in detail about the engineering facts and I love the engineering behind these cars.

[@Emurselovic]

For what its worth, I dont think the over the shoulder shot works well. It feels both more personal and distant at the same time. We're looking at Jason, but now it feels like we're outside of the conversation you guys are having.

[@e30ogPlayground]

Know I thoroughly enjoy and get excited for new episodes of all the shows you do, NOT because I'm fanboying or simply consuming, but completely because of how well you present your testing and findings. I can make choices for myself while still appreciating your journalism

[@bluetoes591]

Jason, there's only a couple people whose new car content I will even watch because, who gives a shit. But you are one of those people, I need you to cover new cars so I'm not completley disconnected from the concept. 😅 I would 100% get more joy from more old car content, but the world needs some Cammisa verdicts to keep the truth in focus (and the entertainment value). The fact that you guys made this episode twice because you wanted to get it right, says a lot about your integrity. Getting the tone right is still getting it right, even if the subject matter was accurate both times. In the end you both came across as the intelligent, educated people that you are, and there were some really salient philosophical points made, especially by Hyphen. Just another reason to keep coming back.

[@brianthomas7159]

Actually cybertruck increased your journalistic integrity. Anyone who watches you knows you won't want one, but you objectively pointed out how different it is and how it works. I am not a tesla guy, i am against electrics being mandated, but think not only should they exist, but people should look at them objectively as a product which you do. I would like an electric as a 2nd vehicle for city work. Can't afford one now and would want a tiny one, not a cybertruck. You single handedly brought me back to cars after magazines began mostly describing the infotainment which i don't care about. Keep up the good work