The Esprit Origin Story - Carmudgeon Show Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott Ep. 166

[@Hangoversteer]

My favorite episodes are where Derek opens his encyclopedic brain and just goes off. Loved this.

[@blanchimont5587]

Honestly it's not even just on cars, he could do an aviation or motorcycle episode and I'd be hooked

[@dailydrivenlotus2994]

Challenge accepted. Jason, we met at Radwood last year where I showed my Esprit Sport 300 - considered the pinnacle of the 4 cylinder turbo cars. If you really want and are willing I can arrange you to sample all the different eras of the Esprit - S1, S2, Turbo, and v8. Let me know if you are serious and we can make it happen!

[@chrismoller01]

.... and film it! ... next ep please!

[@Beezy_Builds]

☝🏾doing the lords work

[@New_Jax_City]

So nice how the ALMIGHTY LORD jason didnt even respond to this. But we care about our fans and subscribers. Sure sure 🖕

[@Beezy_Builds]

@@New_Jax_City brother give the guy sometime.

[@griffins750]

@@New_Jax_CityBruh… You need to take it down several notches.

[@adamshpolyansky2827]

On air sign was definitely very cute and went well with the aesthetic of "back in my day"

[@haeikou]

The set of open browser tabs that i find myself with after one of these episodes is just terrifying

[@ukwan]

When Americans say its 100 degrees outside and my European mind is like 🔥💯 your skin would be falling off. Then I remember you use freedom units. 😂

[@aguruattapiano]

Water boils at 100 degrees 😂

[@jimiverson3085]

We use miniature degrees.....

[@tomstech4390]

*British Freedom Units

[@aleppo1]

So impressive how Derek just gets all of that information out without referencing to notes or anything that much.

[@elib2670]

I miss the audio mixer board in the foreground

[@ShahSelbe]

As an owner of a 1979 Esprit S2, I was stoked to see this episode! I haven’t clicked on a Carmudgeon more quickly than today. Thanks for telling the story and for such a great comments about these early cars. They really are a special thing.

[@punjabeeplaya]

When Jason said he was getting a new roof, I really thought it was going to be Ruf.

[@phattiger1506]

Same here, as an Aussie I always get confused when Americans pronounce "roof", sounds so different to me.

[@ZachPrimo]

I think this setup is absolutely perfect. I wish I had the technical vocabulary to express why I’m so cheesed with what I’m looking at. elegant and neutral you guys both look great. the lighting in the last two episodes literally added 10 years to your faces and IMO the on air sign was too big and way too bright - spooky

[@nightshifted]

Incredible Lotus history! Thank you! I own 4 lotuses and learned a ton!

[@johnbacon4997]

Are any of them working right now?

[@nightshifted]

@@johnbacon4997 Yes all four! 80k miles on my Elise and basically no issues…

[@brownwhale5518]

In my youth I always pined for the Lotus Esprit. Not a Ferrari or a Porsche or any others (except maybe a Corvette) but the Lotus Esprit was always #1 for me.

[@jrome2]

Soup classic motoring KZbin channel has a super cool esprit resto he's working on. Stop motion film & all DIY. Highly recommended

[@flyingbinman]

I second this. Soup Classic also has a stop motion restoration of a classic Mercedes. The effort to do that is insane.

[@michaelharrison1093]

You should definitely look into the history of the Coventry Climax engine - a very interesting origin story. Borne out of a need for a high powered light weight engine that could be used to power a water pump and carried by two firefighters for the purpose of firefighting. The development of the engine was encouraged by a government run competition with a significant prize for tge company that could design the best solution.

[@Petrospect]

Excited for this episode! I'm a huge Bond fan which caused me to learn a lot of stuff about the Esprit and love the car so dunno if you'll mention this but the most interesting unrelated story to the Esprit that contributed to its stardom was the fact that before the 1977 Bond film "The Spy Who Loved Me" finished production, Colin Chapman drove an Elise with the badges removed to Pinewood studios next to the Bond offices around the time they went out to lunch and a crowd formed around the car asking who made it and what it was. That event sealed the deal for the Esprit to appear in the movie. Colin sent for an Esprit to appear in the action sequences on set in Sardinia with a Lotus test driver and the stuntman couldn't wrangle the Esprit to slip and look magnificent on camera because of the amount of grip (and lack of power it had) so most of the stunt driving was done by the test driver! With how successful the movie was and the submarine sequences that made even my dad as a kid send letters to Lotus about Esprit brochures, orderbooks were filled for I think three years by 1977? So people really did love the Esprit, it makes sense to me it lasted as long as it did. By the end of it it was a very old school supercar experience where you could barely fit in one etc. but they're such desireable cars to this day. I'd love an S3 Turbo like either of the For Your Eyes Only cars! Also: for the weight question: Harry Metcalfe claimed for his Lotus Elan that he built in the 90s in Sprint form out of a shell that depending on how good the economic status of the company was, the weights different in Elans so you could have a really heavy body for an Elan or a really light one, I think that was according to "the" guy who worked on these back then. A fun anecdote if nothing else!

[@anthonydietmeier6524]

Fantastic episode, probably the best in a while.

[@nova-oy4qy]

awesome episode. learned so much. more of this kind of content please!

[@Ryan-fg3pe]

Would love to see an episode on which vehicles capture the spirit or innovation throughout each a decade. The historical context and color you guys provide is incredible.

[@verruckt66]

Love the update to the show having a car in the background. Even if it doesn't have anything to do with the episode.

[@CrazyDavy22]

Jason, you need to replace the sacrificial anode in your water heater periodically as well.

[@glockenkurvenrandgruppe]

Slightly off-topic: DeLorean owner here, reacting to the ~1600 kg (3500 freedoms) weight quote. The car is lighter than most people think, just under 1300 kg (2866 freedoms), which makes it lighter than any Esprit built after 1988. Some sources say it's only 1233 kg (2718 freedoms) but that's probably dry weight. It has a fiberglass monocoque onto which the stainless steel panels are screwed. The idea was that after an accident you'd just fix up the fiberglass underbody (if even necessary), screw on a new body panel and you're good to go. The doors are entirely made out of steel, though. The car is basically an inverse Z1 ;) Engine in the back instead of the front, metal panels on a plastic body instead of plastic panels on a metal body, doors go up instead of down. The DeLorean history is definetly worthy of a Revelations episode, especially because of the backstory. Interestingly and in contrast to Cybertruck ownders, I've never heard a DeLorean owner complain about the stainless steel surface. Yeah, fingerprints, people just have to touch it (feels nice to be honest), but you can wipe them off easily. It's kitchen sink material after all. For those that are interested, here is a nice documentary that also lets ex-DeLorean employees speak: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q364iY2Xh7R9ga8 Also: a technical presentation "DeLorean and the Factory" by the former technical director of engineering: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqnTl39mq82aftk Funny things happen when you built a hypermodern car factory (including autonomous robots that drive the cars from one station on the assembly line to another) in a conflict zone where the population is unemployed in the third generation (no joke). People suddenly stop fighting each other and get along.

[@tonyclewes8]

Fun fact - Coventry Climax also made fire pumps - a WWII hang over . Fork lift trucks too

[@michaelharrison1093]

This engine was originally developed for firefighting applications - it needed to be high powered and lightweight so it could be carried by two firefighters

[@ahmadjavedaj]

Probably hands down one of the most under-rated car brands in the world I would say.

[@stevemartegani]

Jason needs to start a reaction channel and get paid to watch a bunch of these movies he's never watched LOL

[@DaveGrimes-i4s]

Really great history lesson on Lotus. I never realized what an underdog they always were. Thank you Derek! I would love to sit around and listen to your take on so many cars from the 60s (I have no real frame of reference earlier than that). Does your current company ever act as a procuring agency? I would love to have your experience and knowledge in helping to find a bucket list car. I’ve considered sending a message through the website to ask that question. Is that possible?

[@DustinDriver]

Wow this such a great episode, I love all this history!

[@kevatut23]

I was a wrench at Ferrari of Los Gatos when we picked up Lotus in 78. Their Rep, Smokey, (for real) showed up with 23 items to address on each esprit before it could be sold. Wipers flew off at 60mph. Fuel drained into the cockpit due to bad tank seals. And on and on. I was once asked what I liked best about the esprit. The clutch pedal.

[@stephenwright-unity1]

Good episode, thoroughly enjoyed it. Nice to see some real enthusiast appreciation of Lotus. I confess though I'm a little biased and have owned an Esprit for over 25 Years and never been tempted to move to another brand for the drive smile. Funny you mention the hot tub rear drainage, I actually smoothed and blended mine out as the original cups tended to results in puddling and dirt collection. Recently restored my 89 and still very much a head turner and surprisingly good at pace on the bends or burring the miles in comfort.

[@CarrotsWithLegs]

Background is absolutely wonderful as is. The car out of focus in the background is great eye candy throughout the episode, in my opinion the on-air sign would detract from the beautiful simplicity of a cinematically lit car.

[@bboixtc]

If you two come to Lotus Owners Gathering 44 in Pittsburgh next year September 5-7, any number of us would be more than happy to let you drive your pick of Lotus.

[@michaelking6596]

As a side note the Delorean was actually molded fibreglass like the esprit and has a beltline for the same reason... The stainless panels are cladding... Hence why it's even heavier.. double panels

[@photon4280]

I actually like no "on air" sign. I feel like it would clash with the cinematically lit car in the background (WHICH LOOKS REALLY GOOD THIS EPISODE)

[@Finlandese]

I noticed that the Esprit that Derek had driven is the US version with the two SU carbs. So, 140 hp, instead of 160 of the UK and ROW version with two Dellorto DHLA twin carbs. The intake sound differs too.. My S2 has the Lotusbits 4-2-1 exhaust which is a great upgrade.

One of my main Lotus Esprit memories from the internet was Tiff Niedel in Fifth gear trying to reach 200mph in a V8 twin turbo. I think the point was, that there is currently no british car in production that could reach 200mph after XJ220 and Mclaren, back in 2005? If the turbos weren't blowing the gearbox was. IIRC, they had in the end a made to order ZF or Getrag six speed to get to 200mph a few seasons! later. I also remember the forums at the time were bitching they shoul've used a TVR and turbocharge it.

[@Rsv4rr-r]

Lotus did the suspension tuning for the Mk5 Supra.

[@tomstech4390]

I just want the beat in the background, that's literally it.

[@paulelverstone8677]

Esprit: still my dream car. The Elan: the perfect sports car. Chapman: innovator extraordinaire... never more so than in his accounting... ;o)

[@akshaysankarshana2405]

Yes! New Carmudgeon Episode! From a revamped studio, even! Finally, a reason for me to stay up at night till 11PM. Pls get Thomas and James for a future episode, it'll be amazing to see them fighting against each other. Also, get along Randy Pobst some time, and also pls Bring out The Mike Episode. And more than anything else, pls bring back Know It All, and if you don't by the end of this year, I'm flying myself all the way from India to LA just to punch you in the face, Jason. And I'm being polite when I'm saying this.

[@WestsideCollectorCarStowage]

If and when you do come to L.A., if you decide to buy a car while you're here, I can store it for you until your next trip.

[@bentucker2301]

You can't even spell​@@WestsideCollectorCarStowage

[@willsullivan3]

Porsche did a 16V DOHC for the 944S in, like, 1986, IIRC. 2.5L

[@kensanders6241]

My addition to a Lotus Esprit story: I worked at a dealership in Redwood City that sold Lotus from the mid 1990s to the when the Internet bubble burst. An Esprit had been delivered the previous night, and when I arrived at work I found it parked in the stall I used. I'm not a short man (6'2" and not slim), but with my neck kinked against my right shoulder, I fit myself in the car and moved it outside. Personal experience taught me that Lotus is not for me.

[@welles28]

Colin Chapman was about 5 foot 8...so there you go.

[@EvoraGT430]

You will fit in an Evora no problem.

[@georgemohnacky7126]

Jason. I handle a Collection that includes 2 V8 Esprit, a FWD Elan, Evora 400, and Elise. Also a few Handling by lotus 90s cars. If you want to stop back in the Tristate area and drive them.

[@michaelharrison1093]

The Lotus-Ford "Kent" engine is called a twin-cam engine but in fact has three cams. The original cam is retained and driven as it is needed to drive the distributor, fuel pump, and oil pump.

[@nirfz]

Wow, never would have thought that i have sat in a sportcar Jason hasn't. Ok, i was maybe 10 and it was only one time at a Opel car dealership. But hey, small victories are better than none. ;-)

[@Nightwalker86]

For the studio setting- please bring back the E30 steering wheel.

[@sashimijones]

On Air next time!

[@jonathanmucklow4252]

Many people are unaware that L O T U S is an acronym: Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious

[@lloydjones9051]

Yessss new Carmudgeon!!

[@sunilsolanki]

Truly wonderful episode,! As to card that have ballooned in weight through their run? New M5 hybrid Death Star anyone??

[@urbanstrencan]

Great episode, guys when is coming special episode on rise and success of Hyundai N division ❤❤❤❤. I20N just awesome daily gokart 😊😅😅. Keep it up with great work bringing us podcasts like this 🤟🤟

[@TML34]

We need a live ticker tape display of dates and people when the boys get this nerdy. 😂

[@Mister006]

As soon as Derek cursed, Jason dropped the F-bombs! 🤣

[@tomerikstokness276]

fun fact: The Toyota 4A-GE 1.6 twincam, (Used in the Mr2 and AE86 for instance) is almost a direct copy of the Cosworth BDA.. Lotus also did some engineering work for Toyota when they designed the first Mr2.. You should do a revelations of one of those ;)

[@earlmacmullin4688]

Haven't watched the full episode yet, but, as directed, I miss the "ON AIR" sign haha

[@XXfea]

Entertaining - but like watching two old gramps engineers talking about the good old days of slide-rules " Keuffel & Esser was one of the biggest makers of slide rules in America. According to the snippet from “Slide Rules - National Museum of American History”, Keuffel & Esser was the most successful American maker, and the company continued to produce slide rules until around 1970. Additionally, Mike Konshak, a slide rule collector, mentioned in an interview that Keuffel & Esser used mahogany on their slide rules with plastic laminate later on, indicating their commitment to quality and durability.

[@argyle1812]

We need a TVR episode

[@joels7605]

Also swap the anodes. Water heaters have what looks like a hex bolt on top. That's the sacrificial anode. Once the anode is consumed the steel tank begins to corrode and that's the end of the tank. Swap the anode and you can keep the tank for ages.

[@EuropaSman]

Triumph introduced the single overhead cam 16 valve slant 4 engine in the Dolomite Sprint in 1973, a year after the 907 engine appeared in the Jensen Healey and 4 years after the 16 valve Cosworth BDA engine. The 48:03 Triumph Dolomite Sprint has been called by some the world's first mass production multi valve engined car.

[@nelsonclub7722]

My former employer was a big Esprit fan and bought two, admittedly the first one caught fire and he replaced it. I on the other hand bought two Lotus Elise's admittedly I crashed the first one and then had to replace it!!

[@jamesphelps1958]

Did I miss them talking about the vauxhall collaboration. I’ve always liked those

[@maxkarp6758]

I did love the "on air" sign, but if up there it needs to be in the right place, but I don't know where that sits on this new set.

[@alanperry8676]

I have not watched this and I am afraid to, I have owned two early Esprit S2 and I have helped rebuild a half dozen more. I was editor for an Esprit/Elite/Eclat tech manual. But Jason’s inability to say “I don’t know know” and either take umbrage or ignore corrections leads me to believe that this episode will be nothing but a source of frustration.

[@welles28]

Derek carries this episode, so it is largely fact-based...

[@alanperry8676]

@@welles28​​⁠Interesting, I may have to watch it then. Aside from the Spy Who Loved Me-associated cars, a normally aspirated Esprit has never sold for what OTS were asking for that car when they had a price on it, so I have been wondering how they came up with that number.

[@dougrobinson8602]

I recall in the mid '80s' or so, Isuzu had "Handling by Lotus" badges on them. Handling personally endorsed by Joe Isuzu.

[@dcanmore]

I'll chuck in that Triumph had their 2.0L 16v Slant 4 engine in the Dolomite Sprint by 1973. Also of note Vauxhall Chevette HS 2.3L 16v Slant 4 (Lotus connection with the 900 series) was on the market by 1978, and Chrysler was first to use the Lotus 2.2L 16v engine in the Sunbeam-Lotus of 1979.

[@Dtamscott]

Yes great addition, thanks!

[@lancraft]

Well informed 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@trwsandford]

Do a dive on the old school Fiat 124, coupe sedan and Spider!

[@JoshuaKoerner]

On air sign = charming and unnecessary. Perhaps charming because unnecessary?

[@CosmoTaylor-h2q]

Triumph Dolomite Sprint had a 16 valve 4 cylinder single cam engine in 1973.

[@swim2]

I like the on air sign and the new set!

[@Official_MikeyT]

Like the Esprit, the Countach gained a lot of weight over the lifespan of the car. The narrowbody Countach weighed 1060kg the widebody Countach weighed 1490kg which is a 40% increase in weight.

[@chrismoller01]

hilarious!! already laughing at the ... add cheapness! ... since DTS is already into CX's .... Colin chapman wasn't the only one into lightness and cheapness.... behold the 2CV... lighter than any lotus... and it's a full four seater ;P (with awesome handling... oh.... and a few other things like the fact that it was engineered by a bunch of brilliant racing car and aeronautical engineers.... and then there's the engine (and gearbox) one of the most sophisticated pieces of precision engineering of the era... catch up lotus! ;). (disclaimer... I own both an early 2CV and a lotus ... I guess that makes me cheap and a lightweight) loved this ep, thanks so much you two... and love the new studio (and the gandini masterpiece... another piece of brilliant cheap, lightweight enghineering) PS Toyota's link with Lotus set up by Colin Chapman was to help Toyota develop the Supra, the deal included availability of Toyota parts for Lotus Cars... the benefactor was the Excel which was designed to integrate these which produced a huge quality step change such as the wonderful gearbox, running gear etc... ironically some parts such as door handles were cheap and broke often ... oh dear... not so reliable Toyota parts!

[@VanderJam]

Best episode ever. Very interesting! I first saw this car when watching Pretty Woman. I've been intrigued with Lotus ever since. Will never forget when Julia Roberts', dressed like a hooker, said, "this thing corners like it's on rails." First time I ever heard the expression and possibly the hottest thing I'd ever heard a woman say up to that point in life.

[@Ava31415]

The stunt drive did the initial shots on the film, an the lotus "delivery" driver said, that's not how you drive it, and proceeded to properly put it through its paces, and those are the shots in the film...

[@carbonfiber492]

So the zf in the Carlton and zr1 was in another cars the vn ss group a (kinda an Australian lotus Carlton) and the Aston Martin v550 also had the same zf6-40 transmission

[@21SebastianS21]

Background is lovely! Red neon got annoying very quickly.

[@istvanlorinczi2817]

Of course the Esprit specific episode has discussions of old Mercedes Benz'

[@carsonj4031]

Very cinematic

[@rjbiker66]

Dolomite Sprint had a 16V head in the 1970s Mitsubishi had a 2.6l four cylinder in the 1970s that was smooth. Had balance shafts

[@deXXXXter2]

I bought one as well :D

[@michaelharrison1093]

Not sure if Derek is correct with the reason why the Lotus 7 was named after being their 7th car. I was of the understanding that it was named the Lotus 7 due to to the first examples being built on an Austin 7 chassis

[@mrgreasypig]

I liked the “on air” sign. It had a some more interesting colors to the jizz white background.

[@technom3598]

The elite was gorgeous

always wanted a Lotus Elan

[@6rimR3ap3r]

Looks aside - anyone got experience with an Eclat/Excel? Are they fun and somewhat okay in terms of reliability and parts?

[@Finlandese]

Great cars! The most reliable Lotus. Great Toyota transmission. The rear seats are actually very useable. Lotusbits in UK offers great support.

[@karlwollan9769]

Ahem! 35 minutes in: "The first clean sheet engine from Lotus" -Exept it wasn't. In 1967, Vauxhall (GM Britain) launched their new engine. Present at that British Motor Show was one Colin Chapman, who promptly secured supplies of said engine. Now, granted this was a cast iron block so Lotus eventually developed an alloy version of the block but all innards (crank, pistons and such are interchangeable) Also the Vauxhall 8-valve cylinder head was ditched in favour of their own 16-valve head. This Lotus 16-v twin cam head was then bolted on to a Vauxhall iron block and shoehorned into a Vauxhall Chevette and hey presto, the rally Chevette HS was born.

[@davebarron5939]

Hey guys, water heater maintenance simple, get water softener.

[@willdaniel661]

There were actually 3 cars that had the ZF 6 speed transmission 1. C4 zr1 2. Lotus Carlton 3. Holden commodore vn group a

[@jeremynoble931]

I like the on-air sign; and the Ferrari isn't bad either... what happened to the audio mixer board?

[@energymc22]

30:45 - no wonder Richard Gere had trouble finding first in his Esprit in Pretty Woman 😂 "it's a standard H"

[@oikkuoek]

The dividing line between Lotuses is between Esprit and Elise. Not only bcz of the head designer's passing, but bcz the only thing connecting these two cars is the overall rear-mid layout, even that is different, Esprit having longitudinal and Elise having transverse. The steel backbone changed to glued and riveted aluminium intrusion beam and panel, quite similar to Ford Model A in the basic geometry, while having higher structural stability than carbon fiber tub. Tub is still more rigid, up to a point, but the Lotus chassis is more stable. This means you can actually use it as a car. Once Toyota was introduced as mechanical supplier, the best car in the history of car industry was born. Colin Chapman is still the best car designer, he had the best fundamental idea for how car should be built, but his builds were lacking the last 10% of commitment. Julian Thomson and Richard Rackman were the perfect dynamic duo to create the perfect car. And they did deliver. There is a valid argument to be made, that Chapman's early passing was a blessing to Lotus. If he had survived, the necessity to evolve would've not, and the crucial sidestep towards completely unheard of chassis design and "never before worked" engine layout might have never materialized. The story of the gusset tells the state of the affairs at the final years. The unreliability and short lifespan had become "trade marks" and "features of personality" for the brand. Even though that image works for some luxury companies, Lotus wasn't there yet, and really couldn't ever actually achieve that level, especially when the quirks of a British sports car were associated with strikes (communism!!) and overall low quality, while the European luxury was "full of character", demanding "worthiness from the owner". You can't get there form the other end of the spectrum within just a few decades. Even with Thomson and Rackman's masterpiece, the reputation of British Leyland still persists.

[@VanderJam]

Bring back the On Air sign.

[@jamescaldwell5]

Jason, why are you boycotting James Bond films??? Judging from your sense of humor, I think you would enjoy the classic Film featuring the Lotus. Great video overall, I wish there had been more discussion about the V8 that lotus developed for the Esprit. Had it originally been engineered for another manufacturer? I heard it was capable of producing a lot more horsepower, but had to be de-tuned for the weak transmission. Seems like it would have made much more sense to develop a Better transmission and use the twin cam V8 they had developed for the Corvette. The one common complaint from journalists back in the day was the way the transmission felt. Thank you Derek for the excellent history lesson.

[@redlion145]

I've always thought of Cosworth as a sort of poor man's Lotus Engineering. Not that Cossys work is cheap, just that Lotus obviously got more business. Funny to learn the founders actually started at Lotus.

[@r.hagenau3541]

4-valves: Peugeot 1913, was also a DOHC

[@Mike-pr8hx]

The audio had much crackling, maybe it's my internet connection.

[@ggarrison1087]

i had a final edition 2004 esprit v8. it was a 💯 a piece of sheeeit

[@New_Jax_City]

FERRARIS have horrible problems draining the battery. LETS LEAVE THE PARK LIGHTS ON for the whole podcast in the background.

[@MTBkid42]

Jason, you should definitely buy a 30 year old Ruf

[@DevildogCO1]

On air sign was annoying. Also, we’re all adults here, no f#%*ing swear jar needed.

[@alkalinetaupehat]

Would it be an inaccurate takeaway to say that the story of Lotus is the "good guy" version of suppliers dominating car design? That is, their products are so integral to OEMs that they must be preserved "at all costs"?

[@griffins750]

Didn’t mind the “on air” sign but it was a bit in your face. Perhaps a smaller “On Air” sign would suffice