Ordered myself the new Turbo. Delivery not until March 25 but can wait, what a car!!!
@TrevorLeggo7 ай бұрын
I’m not their market but can’t help but comment. They’ve nailed it, subtle aggression styling & crazy performance, what more could you want? Engineering ? Tick. Hats off to them.
@edmondsmith42597 ай бұрын
I SO appreciate your honesty of admiting you're not being their market rather than feined skepticism. (Most skeptics just don't believe they could ever affiord something at this level) Hats off to YOU!
@Manc-fh5we4 ай бұрын
I’d want it to not loose 40% of its value after just two years, like the Tycan did.
@mosiheffetz7952 ай бұрын
@@Manc-fh5weeven more
@bryanduncan61787 ай бұрын
Who watches a video on a Porsche and then complains about the price in the comments?! 🤦♂️
@NickiShields7 ай бұрын
🤣
@dangrass6 ай бұрын
Porches have always offered good value. Yes, prices are somewhat higher than average, but the value has been there. Not sure that's the case with the Macan, however.
@kburke19656 ай бұрын
I hate driving EVs even though I’ve never driven one and the Macan is way too expensive even though I’m not in the market for one.
@AndreiTeodoru6 ай бұрын
@@kburke196590% of the comments
@sixpotshot6 ай бұрын
whoever wants to. None of your business...
@sirgardensalot7 ай бұрын
Porsche says the new Macan EV can tow up to 2,000 kg (4,400 lbs) 10 to 80 percent top-up in 21 minutes, 👍👍👍
@yl0037606 ай бұрын
They will regret it.
@Real-IMS7 ай бұрын
Looks amazing much better than current Macan.
@ianmichael81173 ай бұрын
Are you joking? Not a patch! Could be a Kia, Hyundai, Genesis or a Polestar. Certainly not a Porsche
@alexmiller61056 ай бұрын
I love the look but haven 't seen it in the metal yet. I have been driving Porsches since 1987 (944 Turbo, 964 (2)) plus VW Golf GTI before that and Golf R now. My 964 is now to valuable to be a regular driver so I plan replace the Gof R with the Macan EV for most of my driving.
@TLBJ242 ай бұрын
I own a 2018, love it. I wont jump straight to the EV, will one more round (22-24) used CPO model. That should give them enough time to fix the v1 bug issues with the new EV.
@JasonMilner7 ай бұрын
This is one of the first EVs I've seen that doesn't shout "I'm an EV" (which is a plus for me). Feels like it's comfortable enough in its own skin not to need any exaggerated EV styling cues.
@thedreamfactory69647 ай бұрын
An MG ZS or a Vauxhall Corsa e don't shout neighter 'I'm an EV', do they?
@JasonMilner6 ай бұрын
@@thedreamfactory6964 wasn't familiar with either, so i just checked them out. I have to agree, the MG ZS just looks like an ordinary car, definitely not shouting "I'm an EV". Not so sure about the Corsa E though. Something about that half blanked out grill looks a little EV-ish to my eyes, but it is good to see that manufacturers are starting to realise they don't have to style EVs to be dramatically distinctive from ICE
@diyema34342 ай бұрын
Try looking into bmw. They also aren't EV exaggerates
@DR-zk2do6 ай бұрын
I agree with you on one pedal driving. I’d like a Macan to replace my Tesla Model Y Performance but now that I have experienced aggressive one pedal driving I’ll wait for the next Model Y Performance.
@hermannoecking1996 ай бұрын
You can put automatic recuperation on the diamond button - that one pedal drive at a fingertip!
@DR-zk2do5 ай бұрын
@@hermannoecking199 that’s great news if it’s true one pedal driving that will come to a stop vs like the Taycan which is not very aggressive regen
@tonychan68146 ай бұрын
Thanks for the honest review. A car that can give travel sickness and needs to compensate it by switching to sports plus then there is too much vertical movement from the suspension dampers. Sideways movement or Oversteer will not cause travel sickness. Porsche needs to work hard before releasing the vehicle to the public.
@StoicLiberty7 ай бұрын
It would have been funny if at 9:16, the frunk opened just as Nicki raised her arms.
@rlseditionАй бұрын
What's to like about an increase of some $25k in base price. Sorry, I'm not feeling it.
@ROBERTSMITH-io7tb5 ай бұрын
As a company director with a family to cart around the £300 BIC tax makes this very appealing
@sirgardensalot7 ай бұрын
You mentioned the one pedal driving even though it doesn't do that you can still set it to follow the car in front of you to keep your distance I do this all the time with my e-tron I never actually turn it off especially when I'm in traffic and it will speed up and slow down so it must have that feature which is similar to one pedal
@krusher743 ай бұрын
i dont think she really usderstood much about it.
@SandisGrantins7 ай бұрын
The number ONE thing I like in EVs is one pedal driving… Why not give it as an optional setting?
@edmondsmith42597 ай бұрын
Perhaps if the market, customers, make it very apparent that is our desired feature, they will OTA update and include it in future examples.
@jonpetter89217 ай бұрын
Because it s Porsche. If you want one pedal driving or car "driving itself" buy something else.
@neoanderson77 ай бұрын
In truth, I was here just to see Nikki.. 🙂 It's literally the same as all the other Macans (which is now the only model going full electric from it's ICE counterpart). Still has silly "drive modes" and "sport sounds".. full of gimmicks. On top of that, it's got no 1 pedal driving??? Which means you'll be using up the brakes since this thing weighs as much as large boat... A legacy car maker still trying to transition over to an EV future...
@grahamcook92897 ай бұрын
Mate, if you are only here to see Niki, then you need to get out more!
@neoanderson77 ай бұрын
@@grahamcook9289 😂 Most of the presenters on this channel are great. Add in the accent, and yeah, it's hard for someone not to click on the video. Even though you have no interest for the vehicle in question. 🙂 Unfortunately in the area I live in, I simply don't encounter these types of people. C'est la Vie... Still enjoy watching the vids.. 🙂
@grahamcook92897 ай бұрын
@@neoanderson7 Sorry mate, but you still need to get out more.
@sexpistill7 ай бұрын
When braking blends regen and the physical brakes and the Porsche breaks have a special coating so that will never be an issue
@jcfallows7 ай бұрын
I wouldn't kick Nicki out of bed
@musicchap3 ай бұрын
Absolutely love it - just wish those fake vents at the back weren’t there
@ryanhenry12887 ай бұрын
I never thought I'd say this about a Porsche, but I would actually consider buying the new Macan.
@alfie64266 ай бұрын
Looks great, company buyers are going to lap this up. Shame about the massive price increase.
@Satronaut-pw3ijАй бұрын
I hate fuking around with screens lol.
@rubiooibur85346 ай бұрын
what a lovely presenter. really great voice and top video quality as always
@jomo24837 ай бұрын
Curing EV anxiety one video at a time. I like it when an EV doesn't feel like an EV. It's why I don't rate Teslas very higly. The Volve EX40 does a brilliant job at this as well. Personally, looking forward to the Renault 5. It will be a best seller. Sad there's no EV car called Zeus.
@davebway63717 ай бұрын
Seriously? Once you have driven a Tesla for a while, with one pedal driving, instant acceleration etc. every other car you sit in feels old fashioned and a bit rubbish.
@adjust.clinic7 ай бұрын
Tesla’s are amazing. Look at all the others trying to catch up.
@lucasfunkt7 ай бұрын
Hugely distracted by the giant trousers.
@NickiShields7 ай бұрын
😅
@Manc-fh5we7 ай бұрын
Not in a good way 😢
@gavbansal9677 ай бұрын
Lovely, but optional matrix lights, optional roof rack, the wheels are a £3500 option, its crazy, with a start price of £69.8k? Flippin heck! Heated seats another £300, and the list goes on. Definitely a vehicle for those who have never had to consider budgeting 😁
@turtron7 ай бұрын
You know this is a Porsche, right?
@mattx42537 ай бұрын
I put the same tech that come in my M4 and it added 20k to the price. 😂
@mattx42537 ай бұрын
@@turtronif it was a real Porsche it wouldn’t have awful used values.
@rcpmac7 ай бұрын
Not a budget Porsche? Which Porsche in this century was a budget Porsche. You should be watching Chevy bolt videos
@mattx42537 ай бұрын
@@rcpmac it’s not a Porsche if it’s got a chink battery and a Bosch motor also made in China.
@shaunmckenna19237 ай бұрын
Very nice and I agree with you it is a mistake not to add one peddle driving , I am not a fan of it but in heavy city traffic its wonderful . I drive a Genesis GV 60 and I do see a lot of similarities between the 2 cars , quite often in Canada when I am at a public charger people come and ask me if my car is a Porsche . Great review thank you .
@Nickbaldeagle027 ай бұрын
Your incorrect spelling of pedal is a mistake.
@shaunmckenna19236 ай бұрын
@@Quellness223 I have 2 friends that own Porsche Taycan's they love the car and both of them are very impressed with the Genesis GV60 in fact very little cheap plastic in them great valve for the money , but what do we know .
@FormulaWhine7 ай бұрын
People are getting travel sick while driving it?? I get that as a passenger, but I’ve never experienced it as a driver. That doesn’t sound good.
@rcpmac7 ай бұрын
I know. Very curious situation. I can’t imagine what is going on with that
@tobi_dg7 ай бұрын
Also curious. The features, looks and performance don’t matter much if you and the passengers get car sick in it.
@mizaru846 ай бұрын
Winding roads, full torque......whats gona not happen?
@Gracjan843 ай бұрын
Now way I'm going to change my petrol macan to electric macan. I think panamera e-hybrid it's better choice. ❤
@skip741x314 күн бұрын
Interesting... thats the 1st time ive ever heard any reviewers say that driving an EV made them sick... I can only imagine it was a combo of the power, the heavy weight and the suspension trying to control it all...just a heavy object accelerating and slowing and swinging in and out of corners.... I Have heard cars like the plaid, inducing an almost head rush and nausea feeling in stomach underfull gallop.. but normal driving it was not an issue.
@Alantj227 ай бұрын
Not having one pedal driving is a deal breaker for me. It still uses regen breaking, so no difference to the breaking feel, just a slight delay in getting on the brakes.
@riaz87837 ай бұрын
Great review Nicki. I'm not the target audience, but I'd be curious if they fix the travel sickness or if someone can explain why it happens!
@marshallschlichting13536 ай бұрын
What caused the sickness. Turns or acceleration?
@krusher743 ай бұрын
I get travel sick if a car is "floaty" unsurpriseingly like a boat bobbing around. Firm suspension with some bumps and bangs and I'm fine. I'm guessing they made the suspension too good/smooth.
@happygilmore21006 ай бұрын
Captain, spotted, Porsche Macanese over there.
@eddiegibson177818 күн бұрын
what about charging? no superchargers like Tesla! is it a problem??
@2665markyАй бұрын
WoW! did she really drop the F bomb at 6:33? So unexpected but funny..
@antonymcneillis7 ай бұрын
Porsche should give drivers the option to use or not to use one pedal driving. Too dictatorial.
@jonfrench71337 ай бұрын
Nah, modulating braking is core part of the experience. If it’s not important to you there are plenty of other less driver focused alternatives. Respect to a company that sticks to its principles
@mattleistner3137 ай бұрын
Well, it will not effect the success of this car - and this has nothing to do with dictatorial.
@antonymcneillis7 ай бұрын
@@mattleistner313 I agree that it will not affect the success of the car but I will not be part of it and have cancelled my reservation.
@jonfrench71337 ай бұрын
@@antonymcneillis 😂. All the more goodness for the rest of us
@Porsche19697 ай бұрын
Goodbye, buy another car, you smart ass!
@patrickvalkering68707 ай бұрын
Around 12:28 I think the figures are not entirely correct. The weight distribution is 48/52 front/rear (at least for the turbo, if I'm not mistaken) Looking at the power distribution, the car is primarily rear wheel biased.
@CouriersLondon7 ай бұрын
The BHP figures around 11:13 are not entirely correct either. Ho Hum..
@davidbarnes78666 ай бұрын
You obviously didn’t mention the Model Y as a contender because it is the champion. One pedal driving is everything and the reason you suffered travel sickness without it. It is smooth and makes you a better driver. Porsche being Porsche have shot them self in the foot.
@draegus00727 ай бұрын
which color was that?
@johnelegant17276 ай бұрын
Speed Yellow
@larrylong93675 ай бұрын
@@johnelegant1727 disgusting color ... lol
@keithschultheiss55547 ай бұрын
Love it but imagine the repair bill on the screen 😱
@MassimoTodaro744 ай бұрын
it looks better than I thought
@thilsted24 күн бұрын
Anybody knows what exact color the green / grey version is we see in the beginning?
@keyserxx7 ай бұрын
Does it have over the air updates? Can you coast in it (level 0 regen)? What sort of range were you getting while driving? Gonna be interesting to see where the second hand prices sit in a few years with these :) Nice car and review though thanks.
@krusher743 ай бұрын
she said its not one pedal driving, so if you are off the ACC and not pressing the brake I presume it must coast
@addsfour3499Ай бұрын
None of which is of interest to the thousands of soccer mums that will buy it
@Enforcer_WJDE6 ай бұрын
Love the new design language...would also love to be able to own one...
@skyworks16217 ай бұрын
I like the car, design is nice. And the car is more intuitive with inside controls like temperature then VW and Audi which is really strange. I would upgrade my model 3 LG any day for this Macan.
@martman1234565 ай бұрын
Not really sure where the luxury features or cool factors are on this car. These features are almost standard on a lot of EVs, and it looks similar to every electric compact cross out there. Looks like you're just paying for the badge.
@TassieEV7 ай бұрын
Wonder how long before someone tries to collect the badge late at night as a number of European cars where I live are missing their badges due to badge collectors. I suspect it will sell well as in the US the Macan from what I've heard is very popular and is basically the Crossover style and sizing so if priced similarly or not alot more than the petrol version from a TCO perspective should be a good seller.
@finn.hermansen7 ай бұрын
I love it 👍👍👍👍❤❤❤
@ivanmifsud69727 ай бұрын
Beautiful car
@alexarjona16923 ай бұрын
It’s going to suffer the same taycan fate
@chillmeister7 ай бұрын
Can’t afford it, but love it!
@mars_hikes9677 ай бұрын
Perfect presentation, sounds really clever, a welcome departure from a certain Mat W. Except: It's PorschEE, not Porsch.
@beaublue16256 ай бұрын
Porsch
@casperskestrel7 ай бұрын
If I was ready to commit to an EV any time in the near future, I'd definitely consider this new Macan, as it looks fantastic. But I think Porsche pulled the trigger too early on going EV only, especially as the UK Gov have pushed the date for EV only sales back to 2035.
@rcpmac7 ай бұрын
It’s no longer about regulation. There is demand as more people experience EVs and the charging network expands.
@derekbrown54486 ай бұрын
6:31 was the highlight of the video hahaha
@Yeonick9117 ай бұрын
They should've made it a Macan Turbo Performance Hybrid - or perhaps they will in the next Macan iteration ... Porsche invested $100m in an eFuels company in Chile and company statements said they expect to commercialize a Porsche eFuel by 2030. Creating a Macan with an eFuel compatible ICE (v6/?v8) combined with a self-charging (or plug-in) hybrid module would be a wiser strategy than EV-only.
@snakeeyes92466 ай бұрын
You do realize we need to cut carbon emissions and not just reduce them, right?
@Yeonick9116 ай бұрын
@@snakeeyes9246 Oh really? The level of ignorance oozing from your comment is astonishing, but in this world of miss-information and virtue-signaling empowered through social-media amplification, I wouldn't expect anything else ...
@andreaswieser42524 ай бұрын
What color are the RS Spyder Rims?
@benpaul53306 ай бұрын
Great review! Love the looks of this car!
@Navoii.7 ай бұрын
Yes! Finally! A car car guys can't hate! that's a lie... Car guys will always find something to hate
@robnelsonbayvillage6 ай бұрын
Perhaps my 4th Porsche? Excellent video! Love your trousers too!
@chileshemubanga35947 ай бұрын
How many turbos does it have?😅😂
@Kimich-cf2vb7 ай бұрын
Best EV
@LaylaShugri4 ай бұрын
whats the name of the color its stunning?
@spitfire4047Ай бұрын
Aventurine green
@addsfour34997 ай бұрын
Will sell in huge numbers. Huge.
@Shea-austin7 ай бұрын
In a perfect world yes, but then the previous generation Macan could pull up alongside you and rev its engine and it looks much better also.
@MartinzW7 ай бұрын
@@Shea-austin All Macans look bad, period.
@Nickbaldeagle027 ай бұрын
Well, maybe if you can afford it.
@Manc-fh5we7 ай бұрын
Yea. Just like the Tycan 😂
@addsfour349923 күн бұрын
@@omnicognatesnr5947 macan sells way better than 911, this will continue
@Fosco007Ай бұрын
On the paper, I find this car attractive. Now, I won't complain about a price for a Porsche but I 'll just formulate a statement : I am ok to pay more than £80k for a car as long as it does not suffer plenty of problems because the electric technology is not well mastered. I am not convinced the Macan will not suffer from teething problems many, many many cars from the VW group do suffer. That's why I will wait till many users give their feedback before buying one. I don't want to pay that much to spend my time at the dealer waiting for a never ending fix.
@AvlimusicАй бұрын
I was thinking of changing my Boxster to a Macan, but no chance im getting a porche that's an EV, it beats the idea of having a porche...
@addsfour3499Ай бұрын
Being an SUV “beats the idea of having a Porsche”. Being electric means soccer mums will queue up for it, just as they did for the petrol version, which is why its Porsches top selling model
@jeffreyt027 ай бұрын
This is a weird time to live in, I can outrun a top model Porsche in Volvo’s cheapest car. Not because the Porsche is slow, but because cars get ridiculous amounts of power for no reason 🤣. Also, why is it called “Turbo” there is not a single turbine in this car 😂
@Rumblingbelly6 ай бұрын
I kinda think the same way. I think it would be a travesty to buy the version 4 and get overtaken by the likes of volvo ex30 but on the other hand the turbo is way overpriced.
@vny4696 ай бұрын
They couldn't resist the urge to put a motorised rear wing on the ev as well
@JTop797 ай бұрын
I love the macan EV. but £70k starting price...
@Rumblingbelly6 ай бұрын
The pricing is definitely problematic. 4 is pricey and surprisingly slow too but turbo version is wayyy overpriced.
@akf20007 ай бұрын
Not a bag gig this EV journalism!
@cameronthorby57997 ай бұрын
Turbo looks good, regular one is a little too slick like a Mercedes
@MichaelPark-uv7ti6 ай бұрын
Which exterior colour option is this please?
@OwenSpike6 ай бұрын
Aventurine Green
@alexdoolaeghe46266 ай бұрын
What's this green ? Oak Green Metallic Neo ? Aventurine ? Thx !
@T.e.2925 ай бұрын
Aventurine green.
@henronweekes27967 ай бұрын
The EV that manufacturers are bringing out are stunning but the price is what going to make consumers think 50/50.
@OgKingMCАй бұрын
I want one!!
@larrylong93675 ай бұрын
For looks, something seems to be missing. The look of the last generation I found more appealing ...
@awesomerhino80086 ай бұрын
Curious that you mentioned it has V2L. I read they they tested V2L, but that it’s not included yet. Do you have more details about that? V2x is a great advantage to have, and will really make this a top option if it’s included. thanks!
@addsfour3499Ай бұрын
The gps screen looks small by todays standards, but most owners will know the way from home to the kids school so it probably doesn’t matter
@musicchap6 ай бұрын
WANT!
@TerbrugZondolop6 ай бұрын
Nice looking Renault 5
@AliensCorp4 ай бұрын
Best EV so far❤️
@tuomasholo4 күн бұрын
Will it be as fast as a Taycan….in depreciation?
@petrbasa57427 ай бұрын
Thanks for the demonstration, Nicki. I do not understand that one pedal driving obsession, it is Tesla nonsense. Definitely an indispensable quality for me. It's a bit of a paradox, driving a fast car fast until I get sick. That new Macan EV looks good, unfortunately for me is expensive too.
@exposure1277 ай бұрын
As much as you want this EV thing to flourish, it won’t, you only have to look at the horror story of horrendous depreciation of the taycan. Overpriced and overweight battery powered vehicles are not the answer and certainly not for Porsche owners!
@krusher743 ай бұрын
Good idea or not the public will ruin anything.
@SomewhereInTheSolarSystem7 ай бұрын
The design is way better than the new Taycan.
@marcusfleuti26726 ай бұрын
For about €25'000 less you get a much more modern NIO EL7 with much more luxury, better software and sensors, more space and more power (except you go with the Turbo). It has Smart Air suspension by default with continous damping control (to avoid sea sickness). Porsche is going to have a hard time once people understand how good NIO is in comparison.
@Gadgetlava6 ай бұрын
"The EV even EV haters will love" @ £95k a pop i very much doubt it love. Way more better options out there.
@markgold54087 ай бұрын
Sounds like an overpriced waste of money. And please stop using WLTP range. It wildly overestimates the range
@thelifepolice6 ай бұрын
What exterior color is this?
@T.e.2925 ай бұрын
Aventurine green! Like mine to be delivered in September!
@sayaIbnuFajar7 ай бұрын
still confused, how exactly to pronounce Macan. I thought it came from Indonesian language for Tiger. Because when it's called ma-khan then it means eat in Indonesian
@Manc-fh5we7 ай бұрын
With all the 💩 that’s going on in the world who gives a 💩
@ffsolutions94427 ай бұрын
If you want an EV that can make you feel like driving an ice sports car, has one-pedal driving, and is cheaper with insane charging - just get an Ionic 5N.
@jacquesnauer5630Ай бұрын
KEYLESS DRIVING: that's what's missing!
@ltkwok7 ай бұрын
Likely a great used buy in 3-4 years.
@Grant.G.Simpson7 ай бұрын
huge respect for correct pronunciation of Porsche by not calling it PorscheA 😆😅😁
@Manc-fh5we7 ай бұрын
What a snob.
@specialcircs7 ай бұрын
Anyone buying this will put it, and leave it, in Sports Plus mode, I'd bet 🙂
@Manc-fh5we7 ай бұрын
Great if you like riding a kangaroo. Sports plus is meant for track days not around town.
@Station2Station-du2gh3 ай бұрын
Please, it's not "Porsh". It's Porsche. The factory loathes when reviewers who don't know, say it wrong. She's struggling (the battery doesn't overheat).
@Manc-fh5we2 ай бұрын
Tomato tomato. Get a life. There is no right way.
@Station2Station-du2gh2 ай бұрын
@@Manc-fh5we incorrect. It's someone's name. And the company has stated that there is only one way to say it. So it's odd that a "reviewer" would make the mistake over 50 times in the same video.
@robsmith1a7 ай бұрын
There was a time when lots of products were called turbo for no apparent reason. Turbo aftershave anyone? (the unique fragrance of combusted gasoline). Possibly still nicer than Brut 33 though.
@Jamessansome7 ай бұрын
Why why why are the EV Porsche 'Turbo' models not 'Supercharged' It would make so much sense!
@nobodysaysmynameright4 ай бұрын
What's this color called?
@LaylaShugri4 ай бұрын
did u find out?
@TorstenHoff7 ай бұрын
11:15 The horsepower number is way off, the Turbo has 630 HP, not 360.
@glorious_help7 ай бұрын
I WOULD BUY BUT I NEED TO RECHARGE IN 3 MINUTES MAX AND HAVE A RANGE OF 600+
@paulfrost35017 ай бұрын
No regen braking ? That’s surprising, leaving a benefit off. Those Porsche brakes cost a bit I bet
@thedreamfactory69647 ай бұрын
It does have regen braking. I suppose you just don't know the difference between regeneration and one pedal drive?
@dangrass6 ай бұрын
Great to see Porsche moving forward in electrifying their fleet. While the Taycan was a laudable first effort, the Macan fixes much of what Porsche got wrong with the Taycan....well, maybe other than weight. I was surprised by the energy efficiency cited in your piece, and I checked the Porsche website for corroboration. What I found was that the base Macan get 3.1 miles per KWH (WLTP), not the 4+ that you indicated, which makes more sense given the fact that this car is still very heavy when compared to best of breed BEVs....5,300 lbs. When comparing this car to competitive offerings, one of the obvious suspects is the Tesla Y, which for some reason was omitted from the discussion. The Tesla has similar dimensions, similar accommodations, similar speed, better software, weighs about 1,000 lbs. less, and goes about 33% further per KWH than the Macan does. And it costs about $45k versus the ~$90k of the Macan. All this says that Porsche still has a ways to go to offer a truly competitive BEV. No question that when compared to an IC Macan, the electric version is substantially more environmentally friendly, but it's still way too heavy, and very expensive for what it is. I'd describe it as a laudable 2nd effort.
@davidleonard377 ай бұрын
Is it not basically a audi etron with a more expensive badge.
@rcpmac7 ай бұрын
Right, if they were in the parking lot together YOU probably couldn’t tell them apart