NieR Automata Analysis (Ep.1): Dev History | State Of The Arc Podcast

[@ResonantArc]

Two things to add here: First, we're now aware that the video Casen found of Taura (not Taro) taking off the Emil mask is, in fact, NOT Yoko Taro. I'm sure we'll bring this up again in the future as a correction. Secondly, here's the link to the coca-cola ad we referenced: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqTCZamFiql8o6c&ab_channel=Coca-Cola

[@ProxyDoug]

He actually takes his mask off on a GDC talk, but the reason he doesn't like doing is to preserve his privacy.

[@novustalks7525]

I thought alright that was someone else and not taro. Also I could definitely believe he would have called Jean Paul the copyright pig lol

[@novustalks7525]

​@@ProxyDougyeah but there's no footage of it.

[@ProxyDoug]

@@novustalks7525 Maybe if they removed from the channel, but I've seen it before.

[@novustalks7525]

@@ProxyDoug I can't find it on google either

[@Arkholt2]

One of the things I was kind of disappointed that you didn't talk about as far as dev history was the development of the YoRHa stage play. During the development of Drakengard 3, Yoko Taro had put together a Japanese idol group called YoRHa, and they even sang a couple of the boss themes on the Drakengard 3 soundtrack. There was also a hidden track on the Drakengard 3 disc called "Normandy," also sung by YoRHa, which told a story about androids and alien robots fighting in space. In 2014, not too long before Platinum games got involved with NieR Automata, the YoRHA stage play premiered, with the idol group as well as others playing the roles of the androids on one of their "descent missions." The story of the stage show was used as the backstory for the game, and is referenced in the game itself, but is never directly shown. This is, of course, why I also agree that it's difficult to believe Yoko Taro doesn't really think a lot about his stories as he's writing them. He clearly was already thinking about the story of Automata years before it even began development. The themes of the game are clearly there even in the original show.

[@Champloo422]

This is the one that I have been waiting for since the Xenogears series. Automata is on my short list of favorite experiences ever regardless of medium.

[@Cleancutchaos]

This is one game I wish I could forget and play it for the first time again.

[@novustalks7525]

Me too

[@SokiHime]

I cried once for every route of this game Truly one of the absolute greatest piece of media of all time.

[@OskarXCI]

22:55 - The character designer for FFXVI is Kazuya Takahashi. He was one of the illustrators for FFXIV between A Realm Reborn (2.0) and Stormblood (4.0).

[@reverserebirth-bd3fg]

Thank you for the philosophical / spiritual discussion regarding Automata

[@redvivi8608]

Listening to this podcast makes me realize how completely this game changed my life when I played it back in 2017. I finished this game as I was graduating from high school and a lot of my thoughts on life and existence were completely changed by this game. Can't wait to keep up with this podcast series, this is my favorite game of all time. Keep up the awesome gaming analysis, guys!

[@y2dereko]

Can't wait for an entire episode on the music because it's elite!!!! 🤣

[@pelgervampireduck]

unrelated comment: you guys should do "Signalis", it's a survival horror game in the style of old Resident Evil or Silent Hill, BUT the main attraction I think is the story and the way it tells it, it's full of symbolism and references, the story lends itself to alternate interpretations that can go from the mundane "a thing happened and a character did this other thing" to insane "what is real? what is a flashback? was that scene a real event in the present, a flashback, or an hallucination?". if you ever play it, go in blind, then do the research, then play it again after knowing what it references and the influences. Signalis is fascinating, I promise.

[@hitachicordoba]

sounds interesting, added to my Steam wishlist

[@derrickpanciera5644]

Here’s a spoiler free breakdown of the routes for people who are playing for the first time and are confused on the multiple endings thing. Ending A is achieved by just playing the game normally until you hit the end credits, you will do this play through as the character you start with. Ending B is achieved by starting the game again after ending A to see you are now controlling a different character. This route is basically the entirety of route A that you already played but from the perspective of someone else, play til credits. Ending C or D is achieved by starting the game again after B and you will now be playing a completely new portion you haven’t experienced with either prior character. Keep playing until you are asked to make a choice. You cannot miss this choice. It is major you will know what I mean when you have to choose a side. Choosing a side will put you on the path to achieve either C or D ending. Once you complete you will unlock a story chapter skip feature. You can then skip straight to this same choice so you don’t have to play route C/D in its entirety again just to arrive at the choice. Now simply choose the other that you did not pick the first time. Completing this will now net you a finished A,B,C and D route. Regardless of if you picked C or D first, whichever you picked second will transition automatically to ending E and ending E is the true and final ending of the game. To all those who haven’t experienced ending E I wish you luck on your journey. I am jealous you get to experience that phenomenonal ending blind. :)! Edit: if you’re someone who is trying to platinum the game. Or reach max level or some other form of “extra grind goal” beyond the main campaign you must complete your objectives BEFORE you move to ending E. Heed the warning.

[@Kingsleybeard]

Thank you for your service ❤️ This is the most spoiler-free, plain English explanation I've seen of the endings and now I am even more excited to finish

[@derrickpanciera5644]

@@Kingsleybeard no problem! Just remember to complete whatever you want to complete before committing to the E ending. For reasons that are spoilery.

[@travelsizedlions]

I'm gonna play alongside y'all!

[@TheBeird]

This was my first Yoko Taro game. If I can say one nice thing about KZbin - just one - is that the passion of fans can raise the profile of works that may have otherwise been forgotten. Stuff can get revived thanks to the traffic and buzz created by video essays on these things. Streets of Rage 4 for example, wouldn't have happened without people making decades worth of videos talking about how much they missed it. And I think it was the same with Nier leading to Automata. And I saw vids on Nier, and Drakengard, and was bowled over by this dude's approach. Automata is a great entry point I think, because it engaged me, thrilled me, and moved me all the way throughout. This'll be a great podcast series!

[@jairekambui7738]

Now we’re talking. One of my favorite games of the last decade, along with replicant.

[@ProxyDoug]

I believe there's a study that shows that muggers target certain types of people unknowingly based on them behaving afraid or aloof, so the fear mongering cycle in a way perpetuates the reason people are afraid.

[@bottomlesspitt7798]

I nearly chocked on my food. When I heard the copy right pig part

[@leegunring]

1:29:55The example of a paper knife is hard to convince me. Because inventors often make wrong assessments of their great inventions. Edison's functional evaluation when he invented the phonograph was "recording a will", and apparently, he had risen to the upper class, did not need to listen to music with a gramophone, and any concert hall would have opened its doors for him. But we all know that the development of the phonograph is completely different from what he envisioned.

[@Blackalchemist369]

I was waiting for this! From Xenogears now to Nier Automata. When this is done I could die in peace!

[@vollkerball1]

Nier Automata story is just bonkers great. 19:35 Just imagine some suit actually gave Yoko taro a budget to do that....

[@SokiHime]

55:45 : I love most of this, as always guys, so please don't let this comment detract from the rest of your points, but I feel the need to say this: Having grown up in a very rough place, ___________ Do not. I repeat. Do NOT. Simply walk into a place people have told you is dangerous without doing /extensive/ research, and taking steps to secure your own safety. I can tell you that you can go into some of these places like "bad neighborhoods" in America 20 times and having nothing bad happen, then on the 21st, something terrible happening to you. And America is generally safe. Having travelled as well, I have to stress that different cultures have different values, and while the people there are not /bad/, they have grown up with values that may differ heavily from your own, and any perceived lack of respect toward their culture can be taken very poorly. Do. NOT. Throw caution to the wind. Be. SMART. About travelling to places you don't know. Bad things can happen everywhere, there are no "bad people", but there are places with more likelihood of people taking advantage of you. Be. Cautious. ________ I love your guys' podcast and appreciate your insights, as always Immerse yourselves in life and take all you can from it, but value your safety and the safety of your loved ones as well.

[@ashiwakura]

literally the most excited i have ever been for a state of the arc series

[@PelvicGaming]

Finally playing the greatest game in modern times!

[@chrisramirez9696]

Wow if just the intro episode of this game spark such deep conversations I can’t wait for what the actual game has in store !!!

[@johnnyscifi]

I finally played, and completed Automata a few months ago. Right from the intro, i knew i was playing something really, REALLY special. It had me in tears a few times...

[@Pine2142]

Oh my GOD this is gonna be amazing. This may even rival the legendary Xenogears analysis. Incredibly excited for this and thanks for always making my day with incredible content!

[@michs7451]

On the philosophy books mentioned in the podcast: “Which philosophy books do I enjoy and recommend? Personally there aren’t too many, but there are two that are really easy to read books which I love. One is by an author called Will Buckingham and the book’s title is ‘The Philosophy Book: Big Ideas, simply explained’ And the other one is by an author called Nigel Benson and is called the ‘The Psychology Book: Big ideas, simply explained’. I put these books in the toilet so that every time I go to take a dump I can read these books and I feel like I’m connected with these philosophers!” *Smash! 2018 Interview with Yoko Taro*

[@debrucey]

Sounds like you need more fibre lol

[@JohnOethGuitar]

I'm so glad you guys are covering Automata. Looking forward to the series!

[@Kingsleybeard]

Literally JUST started and finished ending A. I'm SO EXCITED for you guy's coverage of this game after the fantastic job of covering the original. I bought both thanks to your praise and coverage ❤

[@ProxyDoug]

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance would be a cool podcast, that last hour is just gold.

[@crispy_asch7110]

I think there could be value and interest in talking about some of the sidequests. Unlike og nier, these sidequests aren't brain numbing and often really embody the themes and philosophical ideas of the game really well often through their dialogue. My example being the sidequest with the robot who wants to race you

[@infinitedreamer9359]

They should definitely do the side quests as most of them reinforce and expand on the themes of the game.

[@waverlycraving6175]

​@@infinitedreamer9359 lpl07uoul.o

[@HXXXXWXXN]

Just bought this game so this is excellent timing - excited to go back to this series after I finish the game.

[@nateputerbaugh5709]

I knew of Nier but never had an Xbox, and only picked up Automata after a glowing review from Skill Up. I was not expecting to adore this game completely and have it move into my personal Top 10 games of all time. I consider it one of the top 2 games of last generation. Can't wait for this series

[@egoborder3203]

I seem to say this every week, but seriously this was so great! I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Eagerly awaiting the rest

[@danielgodfrey2682]

No way!! As soon as I saw this on my recommended feed I jumped off the other video I was watching. Stoked for this series. Loved the last NieR one.

[@Stereosin]

Okay I did not see this coming, so hyped!!!

[@derrickpanciera5644]

I can’t wait for the boys to get to the ending credits of the true ending. It is one of my absolute favorite moments in all of video gaming.

[@Blackalchemist369]

There's a lot of occult science and spirituality in this game. I stood up by myself in my apartment at the last act with the biggest smile on my face.

[@disturbedrebirth]

This kind of experience is only posible in a videogame. I don't think this will ever be peaked.

[@MiBrCo4177]

I've heard of the ending you're probably speaking of and I seriously need to play through and push for the true ending to see it for myself. I refuse to let KZbin spoil it for me haha.

[@derrickpanciera5644]

@@MiBrCo4177 definitely don’t spoil it for yourself. It is truly a one of a kind finale.

[@memaimu]

Ending X... Patrician taste.

[@Xenowolf8]

I finished ending E a few months ago, so it’s nice to see this game covered.

[@disturbedrebirth]

Yoko Taro is a genius. The kind of story telling he does is in another level.

[@Hassler247]

I started playing this game when it was free on ps4 and never got far before it was taken down from ps now. But I was fascinated. This podcast is inspiring me to finally buy it and play it 😊

[@riikka9842]

Just one other thing - something I always say about Taro's stuff is just this: I love his weird little brain. That is my summary of everything about him. His approach, his outlook... there are so many angles from which he does stuff that is different, and I personally am a fan of it. So often, there's that whole auteur thing and it comes across as a pantomime for attention, a perception, etc. You can really tell that he actually doesn't want to be a big focus. He just wants to make his stuff, his way or not at all, and his way is fascinating. If I actually had the drive to do so, I could probably write multiple theses about this game alone. I won't elaborate for spoiler reasons. Perhaps I'll remember to actually comment on aspects of that as the series go on. (perhaps not because I'm not exactly a huge comment person).

[@cultured-fuel543]

The time has finally come! ❤❤❤

[@dreadn0de1]

Possibly the best episode of this podcast thus far. Eagerly looking forward to the next episode!

[@SecPlate]

Love this channel. Most excited I’ve been for a discussion since Final Fantasy X.

[@adventuremachineVGM]

Oh my god. I love everything you guys do, but this is on another level. I LOVE Automata, and the two of you dissecting it is such an amazing match. I'm buckled up and ready for this insane journey!

[@blootle]

I've always heard that the reason for why Yoko Taro prefers to wear the Emil mask in public is much simpler. Because he doesn't like having photos taken of him, or videos circulating around. Even parts of the Nier community ask not to share any known images of him out of respect for his wish. I can't find a specific source for it from Yoko Taro himself, so I wonder if that's still the case. If anyone knows for sure, that'd be great! I'm curious.

[@whiskeyii4515]

Can confirm. Pretty sure he states as much in his GDC talk (I think he was unaware that the talk would be recorded for the GDC vault) where he removes his mask and briefly talks about the mask.

[@blootle]

@@whiskeyii4515 Ahh yep, that's the one! Thanks for checking on that. As a side note for anyone else, I recommend watching that GDC talk with Yoko Taro. It's fascinating stuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHzFeWyfasarrrc

[@michs7451]

Do you know when exactly he takes off his mask? I’ve been trying to find the exact timestamp and I can’t find it.

[@leegunring]

@@michs7451 You can find ''Making Weird Games For Weird People'--横尾太郎 GDC 2014 on other websites

[@tonyballou]

I've been binging your content lately, and you keep playing my favorite games of all time one after another - absolutely looking forward to this one!

[@jm00789]

Thanks for keeping me company while I work, listening to things about games or movies or books that I knew about while also learning about new things always bring a smile. Nier changed my outlook on life, but it wasn't just nier. Movies, books, and TV shows all have the capability to influence their viewer/reader. And there is value in the medium. Welp can't wait for the next part!

[@michs7451]

On existentialism and how "existence precedes essence" in Jean-Paul Sartre's *Existentialism is a Humanism*: "If one considers an article of manufacture - as, for example, a book or a paper-knife - one sees that it has been made by an artisan who had a conception of it; and he has paid attention, equally, to the conception of a paper-knife and to the pre-existent technique of production which is a part of that conception and is, at bottom, a formula. Thus the paper-knife is at the same time an article producible in a certain manner and one which, on the other hand, serves a definite purpose, for one cannot suppose that a man would produce a paper-knife without knowing what it was for. Let us say, then, of the paper-knife that its essence - that is to say the sum of the formulae and the qualities which made its production and its definition possible - precedes its existence . . . [T]he conception of man in the mind of God is comparable to that of the paper-knife in the mind of the artisan: God makes man according to a procedure and a conception, exactly as the artisan manufactures a paper-knife, following a definition and a formula . . . Atheistic existentialism, of which I am a representative, declares with greater consistency that if God does not exist there is at least one being whose existence comes before its essence, a being which exists before it can be defined by any conception of it. That being is man . . . What do we mean by saying that existence precedes essence? We mean that man first of all exists, encounters himself, surges up in the world - and defines himself afterwards. If man as the existentialist sees him is not definable, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will be what he makes of himself. Thus, there is no human nature, because there is no God to have a conception of it. Man simply is. Not that he is simply what he conceives himself to be, but he is what he wills, and as he conceives himself after already existing - as he wills to be after that leap towards existence. Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself. That is the first principle of existentialism."

[@vic101roman]

Oh man this is going to be one hell of an analysis series.

[@dylangirard4670]

I literally just finished this game yesterday so this is perfect. I have it on ps4. Tried it a few years ago and it didn’t do it for me. Tried it again on steam deck since I was in the mood to try it again and I think it is a masterpiece.

[@DearProvidence]

When we live from our perceptions we get lost in them and can't find one another. When we live from our being we all meet in the same place.

[@jaron95]

@45:56 Something I found very interesting about NieR:Automata was the dates used for events that take place during the 14th Machine War. I would recommend to anyone going deeper down the NieR rabbit hole: Google any date mentioned in this game. Maybe also subtract 10,000 years.

[@dybenson]

I reinstalled this yesterday after only reaching ending A a few years back. Perfect timing! SO excited for this experience.

[@vlander1992able]

This video right here is pure gold.

[@FantasyYeet]

My fav game of all time. God so many tears

[@bladeofmird]

Great choice! I'm so excited for this series!

[@geeker9545]

YES!!! This will be an epic journey!

[@BLACKDISC]

So glad you're covering this game!

[@AceBadguy]

Thank you guys for this great content.

[@ricardolujan5571]

This is whaI've been waiting,guys!! Let's go!!!

[@jartism]

Finally! Discovered your channel when you covered the original NieR, glad you're exploring my favorite game of all time at last

[@MrGaiakid]

its interesting how Yoko Taro said that you dont need to play the previous Nier game to enjoy this one, and that is very much true, Automata does stand on its own as an excellent game but if you do play the first Nier there are so many eye opening moments in terms of lore and story building that hit so much harder than if you didnt play the first game.

[@ikkinwithattitude]

A few comments: 1) The distinction between one's primary motivation and one's god is purely a matter of semantics. Whatever one considers to be of highest value is, by definition, what one worships. 2) While it's certainly the case that people from different cultures/religions frequently have more in common than they realize, I'd argue that there is one conflict that can't be reduced to the intentional manipulation of average people who'd otherwise recognize each other as basically the same at heart: the conflict between those who see the cosmos as fundamentally good and therefore seek to align themselves with it, and those who see the universe as hostile and therefore seek to carve a place for themselves in spite of it. 3) Killing is the strongest -- and therefore most appealing -- symbol for overcoming a hostile obstacle. Whether anything literally dies is a secondary concern at best. (See: fighter pilots calling any shot-down aircraft a "kill" even if the adversary pilot punched out... or the aircraft was an unmanned balloon) I'd argue that this has an awful lot to do with the frequency with which "kill" features as a verb in videogames, and that there's a significant amount of abstraction going on in the way that we process it. (I always thought that the "ludonarrative dissonance" arguments about Uncharted were silly, because no matter how impressive those games' graphics were, the combat sections still came across as an abstraction for "Drake was confronted by a bunch of bad guys and faced X degree of challenge, but ultimately won.") 4) Considering human beings to be biological machines seems to miss the more interesting connection between humans and androids, which is the fact that both humans and androids are defined much more by conditional logic than by atoms and electrical impulses.

[@CasenSperry]

Very good comment. Thank you! I especially like #4. I think that's important for this game.

[@ikkinwithattitude]

@@CasenSperry #4 is something that I think is key to reintegrating the spiritual side of reality into the post-postmodern situation we've found ourselves in. Materialist conceptions of the world might have been understandable when our most powerful means of manipulating the world were physical, but the capabilities offered by programming now dwarf the capabilities offered by the purely mechanical sciences. And the main reason why programming is so powerful is /because/ programs are rooted in the realm of the abstract even as they manifest physically through electricity. (Theoretically, a mechanical computer could run the same program as an electrical one despite the states used to represent the underlying abstraction sharing practically nothing in common on a physical level!) AI is something like a pseudo-spirit -- an abstraction that seems to have a will, which can manifest in a physical body but is not defined by it. But the fact that such a thing exists suggests that there's no reason why abstractions with true -- rather than simply apparent -- wills shouldn't exist as well. That's why self-aware robots/androids are so common in fiction, after all. Even science fiction tends not to make the final leap, however, and recognize that if AI can be an abstraction with a will, abstractions-with-wills might be present in other ways, as well -- like the example mentioned in the video of the planet as a living being in its own right, or an ideology that can function as a demon and possess its adherents.

[@SoManyHaystacks]

I'm so glad you guys are finally getting to this one. I hate I have too much on my plate to play along this time, but at least I've beaten it in the past.

[@MetalAnimeGames]

At 35:00 , If you are referring to the guy taking the mask off as him being Taro..that’s wrong I think. That’s a Platinum games employee. If you used that footage as a random example…don’t mind me then. There GDC footage of Taro without a mask before the game exploded in popularity

[@CasenSperry]

Someone else pointed that out as well. I just assumed it was him..

[@Izrl1]

Really looking forward to this one!

[@buuga610]

OMG YOU'RE FINALLY DOING IT!!!😁

[@BartolisHideoutGaming]

One of my favourite game of all time. Here we go, I haven’t played it since 2018 I believe, so time to play this gem again with you guys and listen to this beautiful soundtrack! ❤

[@perfectchaosone8253]

looking forward to this one a lot, I skip over episodes of games I plan to play so I can listen when I get to playing them so I've had to wait for the last 10 weeks to see what was coming next.

[@kylesmith8383]

You guys are on the same wavelength as me right now, I discovered you last month right as I was finishing up final fantasy VI And looking for something exactly like this to relive the story. And I literally just started playing Nier Automata the weekend before you announced that was your next game.

[@kylesmith8383]

Now I've got some work to do to finish ending A

[@SlitheringStevePhilips]

I’m glad people like ff6, but there really wasn’t enough in that story to make the analysis interesting. Nier Automata on the other hand should be very interesting, definitely gonna add that you need to play a lot of the side quests to get the full story

[@TheNobodyNamedDubyaBee]

After some 5 1/2 years, it's about time this game gets the deep dive it deserves here. It really needs to be highlighted that much of the breakthrough success of Nier: Automata hinged on the craft of PlatinumGames to make much more interesting action RPG mechanics in comparison to those of the series' earlier games.

[@jartism]

I would say, while knowledge of the original NieR isn't necessary, it does help in understanding characters like Emil and the twins, and gives scenes with those characters more emotional meaning.

[@adamdam]

Great game to analyse, such a well rounded and fun game. Definitely one of my must own for the ps4 era, or ever really.

[@cgrooney9945]

I played this last summer for the first time. It's been a long time since I got into a game like I did this. The story is incredible

[@johnnyscifi]

Yoshida, im pretty sure also did art for 4 heroes of light, bravely default, and bravely second

[@Arcanenix]

so happy youre doing nier

[@YuukitheMighty1]

Oh boy, here we go.

[@joshuaradloff1070]

The video we've been waiting for

[@mourossonero]

I wish I enjoyed this game more than I did, I hope your podcast will make me remember the game more fondly 😅

[@kurisu3000]

Yes! So excited for this!

[@EstebanGunn]

I've been so excited for this one!

[@MooseheadStudios]

love you bois love the pod this game melted my mind the first time as i knew very little about it i just liked the action.

[@Scimarad]

I have to admit I remain unconvinced by the Nier games but I'm definitely going to enjoy listening to your analysis.

[@robertusmaximus42]

Oh man y'all are finally playing a game I actually have and haven't played yet, and I'm here in time to follow along. Guess I'll have to drop my playthrough of Xenogears to play Nier lol

[@benjamindonahue9434]

Just here to giive you guys traffic. Haven't played any of these games but really want to, so can't watch this yet. I'm sure you'll do great with this one too.

[@Chokken97]

I found it weird that he outlined how a butter knife has meaning which is evident of how perfectly it accomplishes what it does, and goes on to make his case for humanity by beginning with "but humans don't have purpose because there is no god." It seems that it would be more natural to use the same logic as the butter knife by beginning with the intricacy (and flexibility) of human nature and then working backwards. Which would, by that parallel, point to a creator. To begin your argument with the point you are supposed to be proving felt odd.

[@michs7451]

Mike was refering an argument made by Sartre, who makes it clear in *Existentialism is a Humanism* that he takes atheistic humanism as his starting point. You can check out the lecture online if you’re interested in exploring this further in the actual source.

[@otakubacklog]

Oh bless, you’re finally covering this game. I hope you both enjoy! I’ll be keeping up with this series and possibly replay Automata along with you guys. Enjoy and glory to mankind!

[@Scoliosis]

YES Thank you so mmuch for analyzing Nier! Great games that deserve more attention and praise!

[@michs7451]

The concept of “agaku” (struggle) is related to the Camusian idea of rebellion. This helps the absurdist thinker to find a way out from the absurd, and to derive a unified sense of order and value in the world, as well as a spirit of solidarity with the rest of humankind. “What is a rebel? A man who says no, but whose refusal does not imply a renunciation. He is also a man who says yes, from the moment he makes his first gesture of rebellion. . . [T]he movement of rebellion is founded simultaneously on the categorical rejection of an intrusion that is considered intolerable and on the confused conviction of an absolute right which, in the rebel's mind, is more precisely the impression that he "has the right to . . ." Rebellion cannot exist without the feeling that, somewhere and somehow, one is right. It is in this way that the rebel slave says yes and no simultaneously. He affirms that there are limits and also that he suspects-and wishes to preserve-the existence of certain things on this side of the borderline. . . Meanwhile, we can sum up the initial progress that the spirit of rebellion provokes in a mind that is originally imbued with the absurdity and apparent sterility of the world. In absurdist experience, suffering is individual. But from the moment when a movement of rebellion begins, suffering is seen as a collective experience. Therefore the first progressive step for a mind overwhelmed by the strangeness of things is to realize that this feeling of strangeness is shared with all men and that human reality, in its entirety, suffers from the distance which separates it from the rest of the universe. The malady experienced by a single man becomes a mass plague. In our daily trials rebellion plays the same role as does the "cogito" in the realm of thought: it is the first piece of evidence. But this evidence lures the individual from his solitude. It founds its first value on the whole human race. I rebel-therefore we exist."

[@Dakotaidk]

Xenosaga episode 2 waiting room is pretty cool actually

[@MewSassafras]

Ohhhhhh yeah, I've been waiting for this since I mistook Nier Gestalt for Nier Automata and got hooked on this podcast. Finally! Bring it on!

[@kevinabbottlane1814]

I love the Drag on Dragoon ( Drakengard ) to Nier Sires This year Would Be the 20th Anniversary to Drakengard and is the 13th Anniversary to Nier I Wish and Hope Both Sides Get the Same amount of love ,

[@Lamasis2]

Yoko Taro really tries to not tell anything outright and subvert your expectations, deflects and let's you go on a merry chase to find out what really is. I hate/love that guy. But there is so much information to be found in the world, in the archives and the weapon descriptions, in the enemies and their descriptions, in sidequest, in gameplay and soundtrack, and maybe even the fish.

[@michs7451]

NieR: Automata is definitely a piece of video game literature that is hugely influenced by existential thought more broadly and the existentialist movement (Sartre, Beauvoir) of post-war France more specifically. Kudos to Mike and Casen for giving us a primer on some major figures in the existentialist movement as well as their precursors in the history of philosophy. It occurred to me that NieR: Automata, on another level, deals with a central theme in existential philosophy: "abandonment." From an interview ('Life is Unfair': A Q&A with NieR: Automata's Director): Alexandra: What would you consider to be the main theme of Nier: Automata? Yoko: Since I believe that themes in video games are something that players should find out themselves, I have not specified one. However, I do think that the framework for the story is themed around “uneasy children without parents” . . . [The rest of the quote I won't go into for fear of spoilers] As Casen rightly points out, Yoko Taro is disavowing his role as the "God" of the NieR world, refusing to give his audiences a definitive answer to the theme and the meaning of the game. But in doing so, he is also placing his audiences in the same existential position as the characters themselves. They are "abandoned" and have to therefore seek, for themselves, meaning and value in this dissonant, godless world. Sarah Bakewell puts it beautifully in her work *At the Existentialist Cafe* when she says that, in the final analysis, "Atheistic existentialists [are interested in the question of] how we can live meaningfully in the absence of God."

[@michs7451]

On "abandonment" in Jean-Paul Sartre's *Existentialism is a Humanism*: And when we speak of “abandonment” . . . we only mean to say that God does not exist, and that it is necessary to draw the consequences of his absence right to the end. The existentialist is strongly opposed to a certain type of secular moralism which seeks to suppress God at the least possible expense. Towards 1880, when the French professors endeavoured to formulate a secular morality, they said something like this: God is a useless and costly hypothesis, so we will do without it. However, if we are to have morality, a society and a law-abiding world, it is essential that certain values should be taken seriously; they must have an a priori existence ascribed to them. It must be considered obligatory a priori to be honest, not to lie, not to beat one’s wife, to bring up children and so forth; so we are going to do a little work on this subject, which will enable us to show that these values exist all the same, inscribed in an intelligible heaven although, of course, there is no God. In other words . . . nothing will be changed if God does not exist. . . The existentialist, on the contrary, finds it extremely embarrassing that God does not exist, for there disappears with Him all possibility of finding values in an intelligible heaven. There can no longer be any good a priori, since there is no infinite and perfect consciousness to think it. It is nowhere written that “the good” exists, that one must be honest or must not lie, since we are now upon the plane where there are only men. Dostoevsky once wrote "If God did not exist, everything would be permitted”; and that, for existentialism, is the starting point. Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist, and man is in consequence forlorn, for he cannot find anything to depend upon either within or outside himself. He discovers forthwith, that he is without excuse. For if indeed existence precedes essence, one will never be able to explain one’s action by reference to a given and specific human nature; in other words, there is no determinism - man is free, man is freedom. Nor, on the other hand, if God does not exist, are we provided with any values or commands that could legitimise our behaviour. Thus we have neither behind us, nor before us in a luminous realm of values, any means of justification or excuse. - We are left alone, without excuse. That is what I mean when I say that man is condemned to be free. Condemned, because he did not create himself, yet is nevertheless at liberty, and from the moment that he is thrown into this world he is responsible for everything he does.

[@ftilxe]

I never knew of that Yoko Taro quote regarding the framework of the story. It speaks to the reason this game resonated with me so deeply. I first played this game in spring 2021, just months after having lost my mother to COVID. My dad, who had abandoned my family, died when I was much younger. It was 2021, and I was 27 years old navigating life without either of my parents left on this earth. The two people that lent me a lifetime of grief, trauma, confusion, and mental illness were gone. It was easy to channel that frustration towards them when they were here, but now there is no outlet, no meaning in any of it. How could I continue to carry it all when the people responsible for it were no more? I've had to work to find new meaning and new peace in my life, and the narrative of this game is the most incredible parallel for that ongoing journey. I've never experienced storytelling like this.

[@michs7451]

@@ftilxe Sorry to hear about your parents. I'm also glad that you were able to take some comfort in this game and, through it, find a way to cope with your existential situation. It really speaks to the profundity of NieR: Automata (and of great video game stories in general), that it can help other people in this way.

[@Dzzy123]

I started playing Automata last December and stopped after fighting two characters. I'll pick it up and start playing again. Hopefully I get to ending A.

[@orcbrand]

really enjoyed the gameplay of this one but the story really left me without much of an impression. felt like they threw out a lot of references to existentialism without meaningfully commenting on it. hopefully this podcast will change my mind on this but I'm just not sold from my own experience that it was all that deep

[@kevinstreetgaming]

Time to talk about the absolute madman, Yoko Taro once again!

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

57:47 Through the same about my country, until i was put at gun point and theft of everything that i had with exception of my clothes... And they took my shoes too... No this is real, some people just get lucky. Doesn't mean you should go through life scare, but you can't not turn your eyes away from reality, the world is dangerous, there are places that are more dangerous then others. It's not about putting people against each other. It's about not everyone being good people, there are a loads more of good people, but there are also bad people.

[@h1r086]

Evil in this world does exist... much worse than simple muggers as well. People who enable human traffickers and ideologues who LITERALLY want me dead because I refused to inject myself with an experimental drug. Communist terrorists who face no punishments for criminal behavior while people are punished for merely not behaving as a communist. Sometimes the differences overshadow the similarities and there is nothing to be done. The problems come when you start to presume too much that everyone is like that when often they're a "useful idiot" who's good will is exploited by truly vicious people.

[@brydyne3379]

I'm glad someone said this. We may live in the safest era of human history, but that does not mean that everywhere is safe all the time.

[@kmay1621]

Agree with this, and I can’t help but feel their discussion had a tinge of male privilege to it. As a woman, travelling alone or walking home late at night can unfortunately both feel and be dangerous, even in what is deemed a safe neighbourhood. I’m not bashing these two, I know their discussion had good intentions (and is an interesting and worthy discussion point), but I feel in circumstances like this it’s important to acknowledge that experiences are different for different groups in society.

[@h1r086]

@@kmay1621 How about a male in a wheelchair? Grow up, it's not just women who are vulnerable. Some women are stronger than the average guy, it's just harder for women to reach the same extreme highs or lows that men meet. It's the greater male variability (GMV) idea. This identity politics crap is rebranded marxism. I would avoid some places just as a woman would, not because I'm not a man.. I'm not suicidal. I might be more confident if I were armed and women should also be armed.

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

@@kmay1621 Im a man, a point i want to make clear. Just so it's clear that this applies to *EVERYONE.*

[@SableSonata]

I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Back around when it came out, I bounced off the game pretty hard; I found the gameplay un-engaging and the characters felt inconsistent. I'm hoping you guys can help me understand why Nier: Automata is so highly-regarded contrary to my experience with it. Aside from people being horny for the androids, of course.