Saving a Dying Spanish Dialect in Northern New Mexico

10.6.23 - “The Legacy Project” is a new archival endeavor from the National Hispanic Cultural Center to preserve a dying Spanish dialect spoken in Northern New Mexico. Senior Producer Lou DiVizio speaks to center director Zack Quintero about the project.
Correspondent:
Lou DiVizio
Guest:
Zack Quintero
For More Information:
www.abqjournal...
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[@hereweare9173]

This fills me with so much pride and hope. This is my parents’ and tios’ y tias’ lengua. It is not like southern New Mexico Spanish. Thank you for preserving this, our heritage. Que vive mi gente, mi ‘plebe.’❤

[@macwinter7101]

Even in NM Spanish, it'd still be que viva and not que vive.

[@jozettesandoval9444]

Northern New Mexico AND southern Colorado particularly in the San Luis Valley!

[@victorcastillo-dx9vh]

I would like to go there. Cheers from México city

[@Kat-fq4ei]

Northern New Mexico and Southern Colorado, the original Spanish Colonial Settlers in New Mexico of European Spanish heritage. We may not be Spaniards, certainly not Mexican, but all are New Mexican; the soil our ancestors toiled since 1598, fought off the Apache, Navaho, Ute, defeated the Comanche and allied with them under Spains Governor Anza. We allied too with the Puebloans. New Mexicans from our heart and soul, Taos to Socorro. We refused to join Mexico's army to attack the Comanche during the brief Mexican Period. Our centuries homeland, our gente. Some left and settled in southern Colorado late 1800s. Quasi Mexican citizenship for 25 years and US American for 175 years.

[@Daniel_Antonio_Arellano782]

We speak this kind of Spanish here. And we have been speaking it since before I was born. Sixty eight years ago.

[@ignacioheredia9599]

¿Hay esperanza de que se conserve o las generaciones más jóvenes no tienen interés? Me interesa mucho el acento novo mexicano, para mi me recuerda al acento del interior de Andalucía en los pueblos más apartados de las ciudades.

[@Daniel_Antonio_Arellano782]

@@ignacioheredia9599La verdad no se si se puede hacer. Mis hijos y hijas hablan el Español de aqui. Pero los hijos y hijas de ellos no hablan mas que puro Inglés aunque entiendan en español, no lo hablan. Para mi también es triste.

[@agapitacordova3850]

My family immigrated to Colorado. My grandmother didn’t want us grandkids to speak Spanish. I miss the music of my childhood listening to the old stories. I listen to these programs to hear it again. I hope languages can survive.

[@juliannahernandez1193]

It's interesting to me that this is considered a "northern" New Mexican dialect. I live in the El Paso/Las Cruces area and we speak this exact dialect in Southern New Mexico/Borderlands.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

Ruben Cobos from Mexico came to Albuquerque in the 1940 attending a boarding school, getting to know his NM classmates from Santa Fe, Espanola, Mora, Chama, El Rito, Taos, Alamosa, Trindad, La Junta etc, our gente, in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado, taking note of the Spanish they spoke. These were descendants of the original Spanish Colonial settlements since 1598 in northern New Mexico He studied their Spanish language which evolved in New Mexico over 300 years into the American era. Most of the Spanish spoken was 16th century Spain, with a few indigenous nahuatal words picked up in Mexico City, a few words picked up along the Rio Grand indigenous Pueblo and some words evolved substituting the original Spanish by the settlers. After approximately 300 years Mexicans arrived at the turn of the 20th Century introducing few new Spanish Mexican words along with Anglo Americans introducing a new language, new words which were Spanishized English words. So today's what was 16th C Spanish no longer exists in northern New Mexico or Southern Colorado, mainly traces of historical tongue.Most of that era of grandparents are long gone, and a few of their offspring may still speak it. Southern Colorados are an offshoot from northern New Mexico. But at the turn of the 20th century, much the original 16th century archaic Spanish was still in use. Descendants of the original Spanish Colonial Settlers became Americanized starting with the US Territorial Period 1848 into statehood 1912. On to some going to boarding schools, taught by Anglo American teachers. Men left NM went to world wars outside the US. Younger generations became more Americanized, English speakers. Many left the northern villages for Santa Fe , Albuquerque, Los Alamos. Spanish American was in common use as the identity and still we preserved the Spanish heritage, this included up to Socorro New Mexico this the Rio Abajo was as farthest south of the Spanish settlements. Before Mexican and Anglo American arrived bringing new towns and different cultures into southern New Mexico, late 1800s. Professor Ruben Cabos put together a brief New Mexico history in the "Dictionary of New Mexico and Southern Colorado Spanish." New Mexicans need to keep in mind that New Mexicos history is two Hispanic cultures, the original centuries northern New Mexico is Spanish heritage; while the newcomers southern New Mexico is Mexican migration which is culturally of Indian heritage. The histories and tribes are different. New Mexicos history is not Mexico, rather its the history of New Spain comprised of many Territories from California to Florida, Cuba, Caribbeans, Philippines, Pacific coast to Canada, Central America and todays Mexico. All were governed by Spain, in New Spain, separated by Territories, distance, geography, tribes, history, and cultures, thru different explorations, land claims, Spaniard settlements and founding from late 1400s in Caribbeans to late 1700s in today's USA SW and were part of Spains Empire which also ran through Europe and South America.

[@Daniel_Antonio_Arellano782]

@@Kat-fq4ei Very interesting.

[@superfreak5192]

Fascinating! I was raised in California. My parents families left Northern New Mexico to California at the turn of the century and World War 2. My dad was born in Mora, New Mexico a Vigil and I can trace all my paternal ancestors back to Taos, Pueblos etc. My mom’s family was from areas like Tecolote, to La Manga, Las Vegas, Cimmaron eventually to Trinidad, Colorado. My parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. all spoke this form of Spanish. When they came to California they quickly made their names Anglo and Spoke English. However, they’d travel to New Mexico and come home with herbs and alabados. Wished they were alive to see today’s appreciation of their cultures. Which Included Spanish, Pueblo people, Navajo Indian and Jicarilla Apache Indian. Amazing and grateful

[@robmartinez7517]

Northern New Mexican Spanish is a patois of many languages, including Spanish, Mexican Nahua, Puebloan, Genizaro (Apache, Navajo, Comanche) and American words and pronunciation through the centuries. Spanish speaking people in the 1600s would not recognize it. It has English words, Native American words, and when you hear it, it is the sound of all our ancestors talking: Spanish, Puebloan, Apache, Navajo, Comanche, Mexican Nahua and American English. It is not a language frozen in time, it has actually evolved through the many cultures in which it has come into contact with and participated in.

[@robmartinez7517]

@@juanitadoe4057 So was I.

[@gavinrogers5246]

Thank you, Rob! No language is frozen in aspic.

[@JuanFran1]

Wow. No mention of Southern Colorado. Missing a lot by excluding the Valle de San Luis.

[@robmartinez7517]

@@JuanFran1 They speak New Mexico Spanish there. It was New Mexico originally.

[@ToluacheLoc]

North new mexican spanish Is a dialect of Mexican spanish

[@azborderlands]

My dads family from Reserve would speak a certain Spanish, when I learned Spanish properly (modern Northern Sonoran style), I thought it was maybe wrong. This gives much more clarity.

[@Merry19ss]

Los nativos americanos hablaban Espñaol cuando eran novo hispanos en el Imperio Español ❤. Los ingleses decian la lengua de los indios pero ni se enteraban que era Español

[@juliosumarriva3034]

@@Merry19ss totalmente cierto, españoles somos todos.

[@gtripmusic2906]

"plebes" is still used in Sinaloa and Sonora. You hear it in those corridos from that region

[@Jena-c6j]

So happy they are working to preserve the language

[@scw77]

Why? If it has no use or utility it should be discarded. I think you’re just virtue signaling.

[@Jena-c6j]

@@scw77 no, ny grandparents spoke this dialect what do you mean virtue signal?

[@raggazo23]

Juan de Oñate the founder of New Mexico was born in Zacatecas what it is now Mexico; he was a Novohispano and took with him a lot of Mexicanized Spanish traditions, and the language was not an exception

[@Kat-fq4ei]

His tongue was Spanish of parents born in Spain, he brought the Spanish tongue to New Mexico, and his settlers and descendants in the 17th century were Spanish in culture, Spains catholic church, Spanish named villas, Spanish named Pueblos, Spanish buildings, Spanish government. Spain ruled with an iron fist. Yet introduced Europeans Spains culture and language to the Indians.

[@ivanloera6190]

This is quite interesting! The word "plebe" is also used a lot by the people of "Sinaloa" and "Sonora" both being part of Mexico

[@raycontreras422]

Cause it's not far from New Mexico.

[@Merry19ss]

Es porque muchos mexicnaos han migrado y han cogido plabras de los Estados como Nuevo Mexico. No al revez

[@abrilmata1735]

@@Merry19ssNada que ver lo que dices, plebe en España y en lengua española, en la época de la conquista antes, durante y después era una frase usada para la clase social más baja, y de esta manera llegó al continente americano y por consiguiente a Nuevo México, Texas, California y a todo lo que pertenecía a la nueva España y por ende después de la independencia, a México. Y no porque los de Sinaloa y Sonora hayamos ido a Nuevo México, ya que estos dos estados fueron colonizados o conquistados antes que los estados mencionados al principio.

[@rottengal]

@@Merry19ssnadie en su sano juicio ha pensado en irse a vivir a Nuevo Mexico (los inmigrantes desesperados por estar en territorio gringo no cuentan), es un estado tan nadaqueveriento que hasta los propios gringos no recuerdan que es parte de USA

[@Kat-fq4ei]

It's because Spain misnamed the Territory New Mexico, where the confusion lies. Had the Spaniard named New Mexico, Nueva Andalucia, there'd be no confusion. And folks are ignorant of USA history...

[@JoeMartinez-og5vq]

Dennis Lopez from Capulin a town in southern Colorado first wrote on the Spanish dialect a distinct language of the people in the San Luis Valley.

[@raulcarlos1615]

My mother speaks this dialect of Spanish, my great grandfather was born near Cebolla, NM, my grandmother in Concho, AZ and my mom in Prescott, AZ,, my dad was born in LA, CA, and my grandmother in Piedras Negras, Caohilla, and my grandfather in northern Sonora, they all spoke very similar to this dialect, I almost never hear it anymore,

[@joshuajiaomartinez4997]

My Grandma speaks the dialect, my family is from Northern New Mexico.

[@FrankBaca-i7m]

I was taking a Spanish class at University of New Mexico in 1959-1960. I responded to question in Spanish using the word “trujo”. Miss Blue quickly put me down condescendingly saying there was no such word. I was embarrassed by Miss Blue but felt better soon after. As we read further into the class book, that word came up with an asterisk indicating this was ancient form of the word “trajo”. Miss Blue was right, we don’t speak “Castilian Spanish” and she didn’t speak the “Queen’s English”.

[@Alejojojo6]

Spanish speaker settled the area in 1600s but "trajo" is the infinitive of the verb "traer" so I assume, "trujo" is some deformation or evolution of the participe trajo to trujo by influence of english brOUght (with the U sound). Im a Castillian native speaker (Basque to be exact). And sounds weird if someone said to me "El niño *_trujo_* su jugete" ( The kid *_brought_* his toy), instead of "El niño *_trajo_* su jugete"

[@FrankBaca-i7m]

@@Alejojojo6 You probably would find it weird but keep in mind you were raised speaking the evolved language. I find it weird now as well but not then.

[@Clark77746]

@@Alejojojo6 Es juguete 🧸 supongo y no jugete.

[@pml8256]

@@Alejojojo6 trujo: Es castellano antiguo. En Andalucia lo usaba mi abuela y también se lo he oído a algunos gitanos de Ronda y Málaga que lo siguen usando.

[@abrilmata1735]

@@Alejojojo6La palabra trujo es un arcaísmo del español antiguo, este arcaísmo todavía lo habla la gente mayor en México que no tuvo educación escolar, aunque ya es en menor medida, todavía en la década de los ochentas era muy común escuchar estas palabras a las personas mayores. Trujo, de traer, mesmamente, ansina, y muchas otras más, y esto no solo es en México, es por toda Hispanoamérica.

[@Sociolocooo]

Un abrazo grande a esta comunidad desde Panama !

[@josedominguez6088]

Dude Spanish is not a dialect it's a language like inglish or German or French you domi

[@stobbinsboy]

Being a Burqueno, I have been visiting Rio Arriba for 50yrs and although I am not of Spanish/Latino heritage nor speak the language I have come to recognize and love this very distinct dialect. Whenever I hear it I feel at home. Rio Arriba is a magical place.

[@virginiajaramillo397]

Interesting, I never heard the word "plebe" used to mean "gente". I grew up in Rio Arriba County, NM speaking traditional Spanish. To us, this word meant "youth" or "kids".

[@sartech25]

In Sonora, Mexico I heard "Plebe" for the first time. The meaning there is for children. In Chihuahua, Mexico, the word "Plebe" is not heard of or used. Very interesting!

[@JorgeGonzalez-bz1nx]

Los plebes del norte

[@miguelvaledealmeida175]

In medieval Portuguese plebe was the people, the non nobles. We still use the adjective plebeu as a derogatory term, as in plebeísmo, meaning an unsophisticated expression

[@carlosvillegas6113]

Right…

[@Yenifergreen]

Plebe=niñ@, kid Plebada= gente, people

[@damegto]

This is pretty much the way most Mexican Americans from the entire Southwest spoke. Only those 80 + still speak like that.

[@MCJSA]

This story Zack Quintero tells about his parents trying not to teach him Spanish is pretty common. The English poet, Dylan Thomas had a similar story about his parents, who were both Welsh, deliberately not speaking Welsh around him so he would not learn it, because of the social stigma attached to Welsh speakers in the UK in the early 20th century.

[@SKULLKR3W]

its very common both my grandparents were beaten in schools cause they didnt speak english it was a common practice in the early 1900s and now my parents and i only speak english

[@MCJSA]

@@SKULLKR3W I went to high school in Texas in the 70s. About 40% of the student population at my school was Hispanic and school policy prohibited speaking Spanish on school grounds.

[@carlosquimtw1080]

"Plebe" puede aplicarse tanto a un chamaco ("el plebe no se ha bañado") como a la generalidad de la gente de bajo (o incluso medio, en un momento dado) nivel social ("toda la plebe salió a protestar").

[@MarcieMartinezAllNatural]

I love this so much! My great grandfather was the first postmaster of Chimayo and my aunt has a book with his old documents, where they would write everything in script. I notice the dialect often. My husband uses it sometimes, and so do I :). I think Zack Quintero ran for AG in the primary against Raul Torrez?

[@diegitocafecito]

I love my gente del Norte, but we cannot exclude the gente from Belén, Socorro and other communities around the Rio Abajo area. My family spoke and speaks New Mexican Spanish. We are from Magdalena, Socorro and had family in Western NM specifically Datil and Quemado.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

The Spanish Colonial settlements began 1598 in San Gabriel near San Juan Pueblo/OhkayOwingeh. Within ten years settlements spread to Santa Fe . And grew from Socorro, Rio Abajo to Taos , Rio Aribba, mostly along the Rio Grand valleys, Pueblo tribes lands and to the west. Settlements later spread from these Colonial settlements to out lying Spanish villages for a couple of centuries--Las Vegas, Cebollita, etc. Following Mexican independence 1821 and after the Mexican War, Chihuahuans began migration north to border areas approx 1880s with USA westward movement establishing Mexican towns and culture along the border along with Americans. There was not much Mexican migration to the north because there were no job opportunities, so the centuries Spanish culture remained without Mexican influence until about the turn of the 21st century with open border Mexican influx . Interesting history, unconquered tribes. The Pueblo tribes were the only subjugated by the Spanish, yet both peoples retained their culture and language, lived apart, were allies against Ute, Apache, Navajo, Comanche. The Pueblo were even awarded Spanish land grants under Spain, allowed self tribal governance, each Pueblo governor still holds the cane of power, and still live where the Spanish found them over 400 years ago. A mestizo culture was never formed because cultures were not merged to one culture. To date , neither the Indian regardless of tribe or the Spanish refers to themselves as mestizo. Mestizo and Chicano terms came from Mexican immigrant Chicano Studies professors in more recent times about the 1970s. They are not culturally central or northern NM.

[@mrz0413]

Yes!! My grandparents are from Magdalena and family from San Antonio, Lemitar, and Polvadera and this is exactly the language spoken. It’s not just Northern NM.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

These are part of the original Spanish Colonial settlements 1598-1821 mostly long the Rio Grande Pueblo villages as far south as Socorro. They likely may have had more Mexican influence after 1900 during which Mexicans migrated north.

[@miguelpaul1164]

Handsome man!!! Thank you for your work!!

[@RebecaRamos-jn7yr]

Other examples of ancient Spanish terms still in use "Tenebrae" - darkness in Latin, the name of the "earthquake" service on Good Friday night, no longer a part of the Catholic liturgy, although still observed in the moradas of New Mexico by the Penitente Brotherhood. Trovos - dueling songs of the troubadours that describe encounters of famous poets trying to outdo each other with their verbal virtuosity, a moribund form in New Mexico.

[@marksanders2168]

Iam for the preservation 💯

[@angeo3830]

My grandparents are from New Mexico first language was Spanish my great grandma didn’t even know English I think this is so interesting explains a lot

[@MariaBaca-r8r]

Yes the Espanola valley has preserved the traditional language. A theatre troop came from Spain, they were sooo comfortable with the spainish speakers dialect it was identical to their dialect. The troop setted there for a period of time. ....A good book to read is Sabino's Map a book about the five seperate Plazas right in the Espanola valley written by Don Usner . Cool stuff

[@Kat-fq4ei]

You're right, most of the language was 15th century Spain with a few outside words making way to northern NM with the settlers and picking up a few from the Puebloan. But as far as I can tell it's mostly an archaic Spanish with some outside influence.

[@MaxMartinez-t7j]

Look to the Penitente community for original dialect. The Penitentes have and use the ancient dialect in their prayers and cantos.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

I believe they are unique to northern New Mexico. Still existing to date...

[@jjgems5909]

He looks like Richie Valens! Even more like the actor who played him Lou Diamond 😅

[@M10-i6b]

To preserve you have to teach it, not archiving it and making it disappear. It is part of your culture.

[@Egr-et6ar]

🇪🇸 isn’t in the Amricas.

[@razadelsoul]

Pleve is also Chicano Calo for a large gathering of people. I believe its the same for New Mexico’s Totacho dialect, which is basically New Mexico’s version of Calo which also includes some Nahuatl and Hispanicized English and Anglicized Spanish words.

[@abrilmata1735]

Plebe*

[@helloxo666]

We should be preserving the indigenous languages ❤

[@SKULLKR3W]

there are many language programs almost every tribe has one

[@Shashjosh1100]

Yes we should!!❤

[@Kat-fq4ei]

That's up to the New Mexico Indians. One could still hear the Pueblo languages out in public 40 years ago...

[@raycontreras422]

Plebe comes from Spain as Plebeyo "common folk" as opposed to landlords. This video confirms to me that Spanish is a lot older than English to the U.S. Duela al que le duela.

[@oneidag.1215]

El idioma al que se refiere no se llama español. Es castellano.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

Spain colonized what is today the UsA before the English, San Augustine Florida founded in 1565 and San Gabriel in northern New Mexico 1598. Before Jamestown. Back then it was New Spains many Territories from California to Florida, Pacific coast to Canada , Cuba, Caribbeans, Philippines, Central America, today's Mexico; and New England's Thirteen Colonies....

[@MaxMax-me5gv]

les étasuniens qui ont en héritage l'espagnol, le français , l"allemand etc devraient s'unir pour exiger que des lois soient votées pour la reconnaissance de cette héritage de langues qui sont autant étasuniennes que l'anglais et proposer des lois accompagnés de financement pour que ces langues soient cooficiel et étudié a 50/50 avec l 'anglais dans les écoles

[@mauriciomunoz87]

D'accord 100% Les étasuniens sont tous des immigrants qui parlent plus que l'anglais

[@Quiblets]

I am Puerto Rican and we use the word "plebe" on these islands. Plebeyo. I've always seen and heard spanish speakers from all spanish speaking countries use this word.

[@markaxelson5940]

That's a fascinating story, Zack! I am currently studying and learning this beautiful language, Would you say that the Spanish spoken originated in folks who came from Northern Spain or more southern parts, like Sevilla? This is interesting to me as it's like a detective story.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

Interesting question as Peninsulares came from different parts of Spain. Onate the founding settler was rooted in basque country which is said is a different tongue from the rest of Spain...

[@markaxelson5940]

@@Kat-fq4ei Ah yes, Basque. Did the basque speakers settle this area after the Mexican American War?

[@Kat-fq4ei]

@@markaxelson5940 Not that I am aware of. Onate founded the Spanish Colonial Period starting in 1598, colonization was from Taos to Socorro primarily along the Rio Grande Pueblo Tribes. This Period ended 1821 after Mexico declared independence from Spain, claiming the SW under it's 1824 Constitution. This was referred to as the SW Mexican Period by Spanish Colonial historians lastly 25 years up to 1848. By this time New Mexico had long been colonized and entering the US Territorial Period up to statehood 1912. The Territorial Period was the US westward movement era , Americans heading west. During this Period also was Mexican migration north to border areas in southern New Mexico which had never been colonized by Spain. The settlers from the Spanish Colonial Period 1598-1821 are the original settlers which was in northern and central New Mexico and is the homeland. Ancestrally here for over 400 years. I believe it would rare if there were any settlers from Spain, at least no Basque settlements in New Mexico as in California and Nevada after the Mexican War.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

@@markaxelson5940 I don't believe there are post Mexican War Basque settlements in New Mexico as in California and Nevada...

[@Alejojojo6]

Plebe (short for spanish "Plebeyos"), means Plebeyans in Spanish, so my Plebe is like "My plebeyans" or "my Plebs" in short sounds very much slang.

[@carmensandoval3685]

Pensaba escuchar alguna grabación de este dialecto. No solo inglés

[@azborderlands]

Me too. Many Old generation New Mexican speak this.

[@CarmenGallegoRodríguez]

Soy española, de la España europea: No es cierto que lo que hablan esos Señores sea un dialecto. En absoluto! Hablan un español perfecto, entiendo todas y cada una de las palabras y ellos me entenderían a mi. ¡Me encantan! son maravillosos. Pero repito, no es ningún dialecto.

[@bobflaychefal-andaluz9284]

De acuedo es Espangles or Spanglish. Pero no es un dialecto. Tan como chavacano se las filipinas

[@joelalvarado3197]

12:27 exacto...si llevaran a algunas personas mayores de edad a pequeños pueblos en el centro de Mexico o a lugares de Colombia se entenderian perfectamente como si fueran habitantes naturales de la zona.

[@rolandoxaviergarza2679]

It surprises me that the guy from the National Hispanic Center doesn't SEEM to know that Castellano and Spanish are the same thing. The words are interchangeable. In some countries in Latin American they use the word Castellano instead of Español, in Mexico they call it Español instead of Castellano. Some people will incorrectly tell you that Castellano is the Spanish spoken in Spain. Historically speaking, what we know as Spanish was originally called Castellano because it came from the Kingdom of Castilla.

[@kaibasan1]

Castellano is a specific language. There are many languages spoken in Spain (spanishes). eg. Gallego, catalán, aragonés, valenciano etc.

[@rolandoxaviergarza2679]

@@kaibasan1 Yes, I am aware of "lenguas espanolas".

[@Duquedecastro]

⁠@@kaibasan1But he means that Castellano **is** Spanish

[@kaibasan1]

@@Duquedecastro Castellano is *a* "Spanish"

[@Duquedecastro]

@@kaibasan1 Incorrect. Castellano **is** Spanish. The entire language is from Castilla. Just like it’s called English from England, instead of British. Wow.

[@jjcooks7401]

I’m a white guy learning Spanish (my wife is from Ecuador so want to learn for her among other reasons) and I’d love to learn this dialect since I have basically a blank slate.

[@doctormister169]

Great interviewer

[@Rafael-oi6dj]

Dialects from other languages may be difficult to understand, the curious & extraordinary fact about the spanish language is precisely that all its dialects or variants, are totally understandable & this since the times of Nebrija from the SW in NA to the southern tip of SA, not to mention other parts of the world where it is also spoken

[@stevegonzales3612]

My dad (R.I.P) grew up in Northern New Mexico, Raton, to be exact. His Hispanic heritage comes from Spain 🇪🇸. The Spanish dialog has such a vast variety of wordings, but with that being said, Hispanic conversation amongst many still seems to work.

[@kennethmartinez8731]

All Hispanic heritage is from spain

[@ToluacheLoc]

Hermano, you and your father are both Mexicans

[@pipeflush]

​@@kennethmartinez8731thats what i was going to comment. Mestizos didnt just pop out of thin air.

[@kennethmartinez8731]

@@pipeflush You’ve been misled Mistizo isn’t “mixed” it’s a Spanish cast system, all indigenous were places in the mestizo cast along the mutts

[@kennethmartinez8731]

@@pipeflush Spain was filled with mistzos

[@michelleboldan5]

I was raised not speaking Spanish from my mom for that reason my heritage is New Mexico/ Colorado

[@MaxMartinez-t7j]

Look to the Penitentes and their prayers, cantos for the origins of the Northern NM spanish dialect.

[@Deezalmech]

Saving the ancient language of spanglish.

[@gilbertchavez8476]

My family has been here since the Spanish went into the north NM village of taos !

[@Duquedecastro]

My ancestor Juan de Oñate was born in modern Zacatecas, Mexico. He founded the first settlement around there in 1598.

[@gilbertchavez8476]

@@Duquedecastro so why tell me I don't care

[@Duquedecastro]

@@gilbertchavez8476 No one cares about toas either

[@Duquedecastro]

@@gilbertchavez8476 And because you’re not older than my family

[@gilbertchavez8476]

@Duquedecastro son I don't give a fuck how old your family is !! Now behave and go argue with your husband !!

[@D_Hawk-e5x]

In Northern NM, "plebe" means, "teenagers". "La plebecita" means little kids.

[@anacasanova7350]

50/50 español e ingles. Ese es el futuro.😊

[@carlosquimtw1080]

"El plebe rascuacho dejó un bonche de grape fruits y lonches en la troca desconchinflada que está parqueada en el garage". Así hablaría un sonorense de antes. Es una lástima que se esté perdiendo este modo particular de hablar.

[@abrilmata1735]

En Sinaloa sería, el plebe rascuacho dejó un bonche de toronjas y lonches en la camioneta que está estacionada en el estacionamiento, en Sinaloa así diríamos antes, pero no se si se esté perdiendo este lenguaje porque tengo mucho tiempo de no vivir allá, pero cuando en los grupos de face se ponen a decir palabras sinaloenses, salen estas y muchas más, pero sería largo de escribir, pero supongo que serían las mismas de Sonora.

[@tommygamba170]

I grew up speaking this and all my life Hispanics have told me that I don't know what you're saying

[@RebecaRamos-jn7yr]

There are also words that are pronounced different in Northern NM than in other parts of the Spanish speaking world Ansina. like that Cantates you sang Destenguido distinguished Devisa sees I have studied paleography and have worked in the National Archives of Mexico and even in the Achives of the Indies in Sevilla. In many of the XV, XVI and XVII century documents you find words used like they are now in New Mexico Please do serious research if you are going to make some of the claims being made about ancient Spanish used in NM.

[@rolandoxaviergarza2679]

Are they really pronounced differently or are they mispronounced with everyone else making the same mistake?

[@rottengal]

these words are just mispronounced archaisms from spanish, “ansina” is not an unknown word, any elderly person in the spanish speaking world knows it means “así” because their parents probably used it as well. “cantates” is a mispronunciation of “cantaste” “destenguido” is a mispronunciation of “distinguido” “devisa” is a mispronunciation of “divisar” probably the reason behind the normalization of _butchered_ spanish words in the language spoken by new mexicans was due to the imposition of english into the newer generations and the lack of spanish schools that could teach people new spanish vocabulary that wasn’t the spanish that was once spoken by their ancestors

[@marlinavallejos2258]

Did he mention how exactly this dialect originated here? Wish he would've asked him more about this.

[@Merry19ss]

Pleve en idioma español medieval es el Pueblo campesino 🧺

[@markriffey8899]

I’m a gringo with an interest in languages. My dad grew up in Mancos, Colorado. His mom was from NM and was a school teacher specializing in the Spanish language. Dad would always say "vamanós" (let’s go) instead of vámanos". Is that a regional thing or was dad just mispronouncing the word?

[@rolandoxaviergarza2679]

My guess is that he is mispronouncing. The word is "Vámonos".

[@abrilmata1735]

Lo correcto es, vámonos.

[@fifaclips1530]

Why aren't we worried about saving Nativae American languages that were the original languages of the original people of the land? No instead we try to conserve the languages of the people who slaughtered Natives, and celebrate and protect their culture.

[@fifaclips1530]

@@mmecharlotte exactly. I’ve lived in NM my whole life and no one is trying to preserve these languages that were really the original languages. I went to school and they literally had these Spanish conquistador Reenactors come every year and try and spread their culture just like they did hundreds of years ago. Native Americans who went to school would frequently hold protest signs whenever this would happen.

[@AprilRamos-dg7uq]

🥰

[@adrianacg9594]

In Spain we still use Plebe as the original Roman meaning: the plebeians or, nowadays, the masses of low income.

[@rottengal]

pero en el Noroeste de México y en Nuevo México la palabra “plebe” significa niño, no tiene el mismo significado que la palabra “plebeyo”

[@bobflaychefal-andaluz9284]

Puerto Rico we use plebe too

[@ionaguirre]

Plebe is a very, very old castllian word than can be traced back to the birth of the lenguage at the middle ages of central Spain.(The old Reign of Castilla). Albeit it has survived until today, its rarely used in normal spoken Castillian. Two remarks: I use the term "Castillian" and not Spanish, becouse, althrough we are all bilingual, at my home land, our mother lenguage is basque. Castllian, Castellano, means "From the Reign of Castile". The Reign of Castles.

[@thomasprovencio9385]

I live in southern New Mexico I used the word plebe when speaking to a person from Mexico and she didn’t know what the word meant.

[@filbaytee1118]

got it. in other words, “Spanglish”.

[@RebecaRamos-jn7yr]

The examples I heard in the piece is not the Northern New Mexican Spanish that goes back hundreds of years. Example Troca - no trucks existed. Neither did lonches. Some of the lovely ancient words include ansina for asi. My 15th GGF and GGM were part of Juan de Onates avanzada. Lets do some real linguistic research. The language evolves, so do not categorize †he language spoken today as ancient Spanish.

[@itsjossshhh]

I know so many people from my mom’s generation and before then that say “asina,” and I’m now confident that it’s because it derives from “ansina”

[@christinamorales6887]

It’s not ancient what a bunch of BS ashamed of having Mexican ancestors.

[@Duquedecastro]

Very true! My ancestor was Juan de Oñate, but I am Mexican, not New Mexican

[@erics7992]

Very interesting. Plebe is from Latin plebs that means, like he said, gente.

[@semperreformanda2282]

It's quite intriguing that you bring up the term "plebes"; in Sinaloa, this word is commonly utilized to refer to children.

[@hislas2735]

Same in Sonora and Southern Arizona. "Asi es la plebe" referring to adolescents or youngsters.

[@MannyGonzalezReyna]

LADINO

[@abrilmata1735]

Si, Ladino.

[@Adam-tx1tr]

Nope.

[@nelsonassioc7511]

We just lost another of our colonial Spanish speakers... Robert Sanders 73 retired Air Force.

[@jeanettewaverly2590]

¡A la ve!

[@BenP91]

¿Plebe? ¿Nomás un ejemplo dio? Plebe se usa en el norte de México. No hay nada que conservar compa, el mismo “dialecto” usamos en el norte de México. Es una mezcla de palabras indígenas con el español. Nomás está justificando trabajo y lo hace sonar más serio de lo que es. No es pa tanto. Es como si en el futuro quisiéramos conservar el espanglish jaja

[@LewisC-t1f]

God bless all Hispanic people and culture!! Up the Spanish Empire and the Catholic Church! Viva la Hispanidad!

[@vaquero7x]

Viva Cristo Rey !!!

[@bradlcnm]

Check out Anton Chico - I suspect it is part Comanche.

[@gilbertpaiz8096]

Anton Chico means little Anthony.

[@manuelsanchezdeinigo3959]

¡Qué Viva Nuevo México y Gran Hispanidad! ¡Qué Viva la República! ¡Qué Viva el reino de YaHWeH Adonai Señor Dios Todopoderoso Christo Rey Pantocrator y les bendiga y Nuestra Señora de Perpetua Socorro La Conquistadora de Almas Ora Pro Nobis ☦️⚔️🇪🇸🇺🇸🇲🇽⚔️

[@RebecaRamos-jn7yr]

Plebe is a much better example.

[@anacasanova7350]

La plebe , vulgo, es el pueblo llano, bajo, vulgar es normal del idioma castellano en España. Hoy no hay plebe hay progresistas.😂😂😊 Plebe (plebeyo) del pueblo. No aristocratico.

[@mrd5963]

Plebada es gente dude! come on you went to college! Example (La plebada anda feliz) the people are happy. Plebe is a young person. For example (El plebe tiene hambre) the youngster is hungry.

[@erics7992]

So plebe is like joven? It seems like almost every region of Latin American has its own word for 'joven'.

[@mrd5963]

@@erics7992 Plebe is referred to a younger person, you would not call a older person 30yrs or older a plebe

[@abrilmata1735]

Plebe se usa en México esclusivamente los estados de Sonora y Sinaloa desde su fundación, plebe, plebillo(a) plebito, plebita, pleberio, (Un conjunto de niños o jóvenes) el plebon, la plebona. Otros estados no usan esta palabra.

[@jacjoc7290]

Plebe significa gente lkana del pueblo. De ahí la palabra plebello

[@JoelMunizVilla]

What do they intend to save from oblivion? A Spanish dialect strongly influenced by the indigenous languages ​​that were spoken in the former "Territorio del Camino Real de Tierra Adentro (West Texas, New Mexico and Colorado) until 1848? Or a "Spanglish" with strong Anglo-Saxon roots, mixed with words from the Chihuahuan dialect and some other indigenous languages ​​that still survive in those North American states of the former Viceroyalty of New Spain after 1848? Since the 1st is a true 400-year-old dialect, and the 2nd is a "pidgin", or simplified lingua franca, which is not even capable of achieving the linguistic category of a creole language!, created and used by individuals from linguistically divided communities who after 1848 did not know enough of the English language to use it among themselves... until English It was imposed on them in schools! A linguistic imposition arising from a colonial situation in which two or more groups that spoke different languages ​​lived a situation of forced labor or social subjection of various linguistic and cultural groups to a colonial elite! And that was not the case of the eviscerated territories broken by the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo until 1848, where before 1848 there was NEVER slavery or a colonial situation because before 1848 they were Mexican citizens and since 1812 they were citizens of the Spanish Crown!

[@Jena-c6j]

My Dad spoke this Spanish but didnt allow us to speak it at home

[@azborderlands]

My parents were the opposite and made us learn it at home as a second language. I’m extremely grateful. Now living in Europe, I see British people speaking better Spanish than gringos in the USA.

[@Egr-et6ar]

Based.

[@abrilmata1735]

Y cuál fue la razón de no permitirles hablar el idioma español? ¿Se avergonzaban del idioma?

[@Egr-et6ar]

@@abrilmata1735 Just see the lisp of Spniards lol.

[@7777Noris]

I wonder if ladino is spoken in that area.😊

[@abrilmata1735]

Todos esos arcaísmos tengo entendido que son ladino.

[@7777Noris]

@@abrilmata1735eso pienso también

[@xavier-0115]

Zack, you’re probably more Native American than Hispanic. You should probably look deeper into your heritage and ask yourself what language your people spoke prior to adopting a colonized language such as Spanish. What happened to your Native language, and who is preserving your ancestral language?

[@marthagonzalez-l3l]

Penitente is not a new Mexico word is known in all Latin America 😂😂😂

[@berettaman7]

There are no latinos in Mexico, central nor South America, we are all hispanic americans.

[@jorgelzorro33]

Is the parents failt for not teaching spanish to theirr kids at home,im Mexican but i grew up here in the USA sinnce I was 13 but my parent force us to speak spanish at home.

[@Kat-fq4ei]

I think Americanization was very important to New Mexicans since the Treaty of GH protected American citizenship. New Mexicans didn't participate with Mexico City for independence. Spain was deeply ingrained in northern NM psyche and exposure to Americanos coming from Missouri on the Santa Fe Trail for trade was enticing.... Gotta assimilate just like the Italian, Irish, others, even if New Mexico is our Homeland.

[@Egr-et6ar]

Womp Womp.

[@cif2701]

The dialect still survives in bits and pieces all over latin America. The word plebe for example is used in sinaloa. People tend to put too much stock into thinking it's solely a northern NM thing. The stubbornness to somehow stick out tends to get trumped by the fact that most new mexicans use that whole "spanish" excuse to marginalize immigrants. They dont like Mexico but they love our Virgen of Guadalupe though

[@Corentin-sx6um]

Yeah, it's kind of obvious they don't want anything to do with the rest of Spanish speakers. A eso se le llama arribismo.

[@janellbenitez5982]

Please don't offer me Rosca. It has a different meaning to me. LOL

[@janellbenitez5982]

Do you have Tewa's?

[@OliverNorth9729]

They also hate mexican men but love maize.

[@chrisortiz7487]

Difference between those pockets and the northern New Mexico one, is that those pockets exist in Spanish speaking Nations. The northern NM pocket resides in an English speaking nation:USA. Those Latin American pockets of this dialect have been tainted and influenced by modern Spanish, whereas, the NM one has been preserved since the first conquistadors settled the area in the 1600s!

[@anacasanova7350]

Todas las lenguas estan "contaminadas" en Europa igual, aparte de las diferentes lenguas o disalectos. El Español tiene 4mil palabras arabes, y...germanas, francesas, italianas y/o latinas, griegas, vascas, gallegas, bereberes e hispanoamericanas ,aborigenes, como tomate o patata. Etc.😂

[@carlosvillegas6113]

Wrong, plebe it s referred to boys or kids not people, in Spain they don’t use the word plebe instead they said chaval.

[@rolandoxaviergarza2679]

Los idiomas evolucionan con el paso del tiempo. Lo que se usa hoy pueda que no se usaba antes.

[@pitrris]

We use plebe in Spain too.

[@carlosvillegas6113]

Never hear that, not for kids

[@abrilmata1735]

@@pitrrisY porqué he recibido críticas de españoles cuando menciono que en mis estado Sinaloa, y también en Sonora usamos mucho plebe para referirnos a los niñ@s o Jóvenes? Me dicen que esa palabra solo la usaron en el español antiguo para referirse a gente de bajo rango social campesino, aunque acá siempre hemos sabido que ese es su significado original.

[@OmarAbundis]

...they could also start teaching spanish in schools.

[@RaffiJaharian]

This is America we speak American here 🇺🇸🦅🗽

[@joselopez-kx3sm]

i don't think spanish is going extinct. i wish people where more interested in saving the native languages, and customs of south and north america.

[@Duquedecastro]

It’s not just “Spanish”, it’s the form of Spanish they speak in certain areas.

[@joselopez-kx3sm]

@@Duquedecastro if they care so much why not learn catalan, galician, and basque. i mean they are so interested in spanish culture yet their true native languages gets little attention.

[@Duquedecastro]

@@joselopez-kx3sm Because Castilian is what they’ve spoken there since the 1590’s in the settlements. It’s not about Galician or Asturian (although those should also be learned), it’s about the regions spoken version of the Spanish language which has been there for centuries, and is now waning. And might I add, these old versions are waning in Mexico as well.

[@ruyaal]

He doesn’t seem to know much of this so called dialect. The word ‘plebe’ can be inferred by any Spanish speaker the meaning of people. If that’s the best he can give us, it seems to be a waste of time and money.

[@marthagonzalez-l3l]

People in Spain don't use the word plebe is slang for youth kids and it comes from Mexico

[@jessesilva7448]

It's called viva la Raza

[@Egr-et6ar]

That was originally antï-Mxicn - originated as a reference to "La Raza Cosmica" by José Vasconcelos, although it is no longer used in this context or associated with "La Raza Cosmica" ideology by Mexican-American, Native rights movements and activists in the United States.

[@apatizinguense]

Rio Arriba is bad Spanish to begin with. Love my hillbillies and It's hillbilly Spanish. You can make an argument the Appalachian English is a dying dialect of English. Languages evolve or change throughout the world. Plebe is commonly used in northern Mexico. The original settlers were from Northern Mexico.

[@Duquedecastro]

Exactly! Many families were scouted from the Kingdom of Nueva Galicia, today Zacatecas/Jalisco/Aguascalientes! My ancestor was Juan de Oñate, also born in modern Zacatecas, Mexico and we’ve been on the Mexican side since he was born there.

[@abrilmata1735]

Por siglos desde la fundación, o conquista de Sonora y Sinaloa decimos plebe, plebes, plebillo(a) pleberio, plebon, plebona.

[@scottiusnevious5143]

All the schools care about is Spain dialect. Its super gay and waters down most of the character. I dont like the losers that think they run shit since their families have been here for a while.

[@Egr-et6ar]

It’s so funny when North Africans/Middle Estners were in 🇪🇸 and 🇵🇹 for much longer.

[@Duquedecastro]

The ironic thing is that all of those original families came mostly from New Spain, not Spain. Yes, we had perfectly Spanish blood, but it was not always undiluted. My ancestor Juan de Oñate founded Nuevo México, and he was born in modern Zacatecas, Mexico, where my family is still from. We are proud of our Spanish ancestry, but it is not more special than everything else! People need to look into the actual history instead of screaming “Spain!” all the time

[@Egr-et6ar]

@@Duquedecastro Yeah and the Moors came from Al-Andalus, Arabs came from Umayyad Caliphate, Phoenicians came from Gadir, Romans came from Hispania, the Greeks came from Iberia and the Germanic tribes came from Tarraconensis/Tarraconia 🤣🤣🤣. So proud but aren’t living in 🇪🇸…. Oh the contradiction.

[@USViper]

New Mexico was made great by English speakers, not espanol

[@kennethmartinez8731]

Colonizers dialect die out

[@rathersane]

Nope… Broadcast Standard North American English is very much alive!

[@davidpaz9389]

Martinez is a Spanish surname. Hence you carry a name of European colonizers.

[@europa_bambaataa]

2:15 this guy is obviously not a linguist. The dialect needs a name, and you need to say it's actual features as early as possible in the conversation

[@mygodisgreater2112]

Listen with all due respect, I don’t see or hear any ancient Spanish dialect. What I see here is the attempt to preserve a slang way of speaking, which is a cool thing to do but that’s all it is. Dialects of Spanish/Castellano are for example; Gallego, Valenciano, Catalán etc. The preservation of slang in any language is historically needed but it’s not a dialect. That was already tried in American/English with Ebonics.