No more BMW Police Cars in the UK... thanks to N57 Engine Fires

Ever been pulled over by a BMW 3, 5 series or X5? No more! BMW has stopped selling police cars to the UK government. In this video I look at the reasons why, and dive a little deeper into government procurement and ask some important questions.
Geoff's Police Car Videos
Part 1 - No more BMW Police cars in the UK
• No more BMW Police Car...
Part 2 - Holy Engines and Clocked Cars
• The Clocked Up Holy En...
Bonus - The History of the Volvo 850 and UK Police • The Volvo 850 and UK P...
#BMW #Police #PoliceCar #N57Engine
Sources:
BMW Halts the Sale of All Police Cars
cardealermagaz...
Coroner Sums PC Nick Humphreys Tragedy
www.newsandsta...

[@GeoffBuysCars]

Geoff's Police Car Videos
 Part 1 - No more BMW Police cars in the UK kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZitd3eao7KLgck Part 2 - Holy Engines and Clocked Cars kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3bVqn2bd8iaY5o Bonus - The History of the Volvo 850 and UK Police kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5CZeKFnp7CBoNE

[@samlaverick5981]

This is BMW in 2023...Why can't these cars idle without over heating??????

[@cubeaceuk9034]

BSM had more Vauxhall and Rover cars on the road than the police ever did in any one year so I don't think you can attribute that to the downfall of the British car industry. Locally I have seen Skoda, Mercedes and Fords used by the Police. Also don't forget the Morris Minors, Minis, Jags, Wolseley and dreadful Hillman Imp. Different forces use different cars. I have seen some dreadful driving by police over the years and cars on patrol with faults such as low air pressure in tyres and brake and indicator lights not working. I think they only get maintenance when they develop faults. No modern car should be left idling for a long time. These cars are prepared and adapted to police specifications so why not additional battery capacity? Wait till they go all electric 🤣

[@MOTMotorsport]

It has been nearly 20 years since I was last in this industry, so I cannot remember exact figures. But, at that time 20 years ago I visited a PSA gearbox factory in France. At full capacity the factory could manufacture around 120,000 gearboxes per week for their small to medium vehicles. The factory was not however at full tilt and was only producing around 90,000 per week. I have a recollection that Rover's final year of production totalled 180,000 vehicles split across all models. This equated to just 2 weeks production for the PSA group. Even if the police had ordered 10,000 cars it wouldn't of kept Rover afloat. As a British Engineer, I would have liked nothing better than to see Rover producing desirable vehicles and competing globally. Sadly, the cars were undesirable in a global market and behind the curve. The Rover 75 was a good car, stymied by "gentlemen's club" styling and a pricing policy that made them very unattractive to company car buyers. Running off with the pension fund didn't help either.

[@davidellis279]

@@cubeaceuk9034 Can’t wait for that to happen,what a disaster that will be but there again everyone who bought these expensive Milk Floats will have the same problems,fancy robbing a bank and the getaway car runs out of charge it’ll be like the Keystone Cops all over again but in real life. All emergency vehicles that go electric are going to suffer the same problems,I wonder if they have given any thought to these problem’s ??? I’ll keep my diesel going for as long as there’s fuel to run it and hopefully I won’t be around anymore by then,sick to death of this Shit Country and if I was younger I’d leave as soon as as possible because it’s getting impossible to live here anymore unless you’re an illegal immigrant.

[@mrh375]

Why foreign cars , either lack of intelligence or brown envelope syndrome. Maybe 10 years ago in Bristol students were protesting about something connected to government funding, in the sky was a German manufactured helicopter, a Mercedes police van was at the scene and a BMW 4x4 I questioned a senior officer asking did they not understand that if they had spent the taxpayers money on uk built vehicles there would be more cash in the government coffers thus reducing the motive for the protest, I was afraid to ask if the police horse present was Hanoverian. He told me he had no say in the matter. Those who argue British built vehicles were unreliable are not only wrong but mistaken in thinking that GB plc is better off importing. I wonder if we import brown envelopes 🤔 I once worked at recovery for the AA , in 2 years I picked up just one Range Rover yet in just one night had to rescue 2 BMW’s . The Range Rover breakdown was very likely due to failure of its German sourced electronics.

[@wreython]

I'm an ex Firearms officer. Been retired for a year and six months. My force used X5's as ARV's. The traffic side used 530d's. These particular vehicles were heavily used - especially the X5's as maintaining a 24hr armed response cover is a priority. There were times when the previous shift had just finished a job, they'd get back just as another authority was given and it would be 100mph plus, sometimes across the county border miles away. Overall, they performed well. Vehicle maintenance on my force was very good. Along with the engine notification you mention here we had issues with X5's being very sensitive to tyre tread depth and over-wear on inside edge's. Without constant checks carried, out poor handling would result. Weight was also a problem. ARV's carry a lot of heavy kit which put obvious wear and tear on all running gear. The best cars we ever used were Volvo T6's. Petrol, straight six engine was glorious but thirsty. They went for years.

[@matthewwiddows6319]

Was it the t6 or the twin turbo d5 that had engine problem, I I think it was post 2010 cars ish?

[@wreython]

@@matthewwiddows6319 Can't recall that. But the D5 was initially raved about when it was driven. And then they stuck all the kit in the back....which slowed it right down. T6 engines were very good but I think they got a lot of care and attention. T5 traffic cars were very rapid but being front wheel drive were torquey and skittish on banded roads/poorly surfaced roads.

[@matthewwiddows6319]

@@wreython was that the d5 in the shape of the t5 v70, or in the shape of the t6 v70(p3)?.one was 185bhp and the other a twin turbo 210bhp. Did you drive the v70 t5 250bhp or the 260bhp version?

[@wreython]

@@matthewwiddows6319 The D5's we had were T6 shaped. Sorry. I can't remember the bhp on any of them. D5's and T6's were AWD. T5's were front only.

[@stephencollins9062]

Dream car is the old T-5:) Typo😂

[@andycoombes161]

I'm thankfully now retired but worked for a part of my career as a traffic officer in the Met. We used almost exclusively BMW 530 estates and in my experience NEVER once had an engine issue... EVER!! We also had a 4 litre V8 Land Rover Discovery which did about 110 miles between fill ups and was ALWAYS in for repairs BUT coukd tow a fully laden articulated lorry if needed. The Mitsubushi Shoguns which replaced it them had a 3.5 tonne towing limit. British Cars were pretty crap back in the day and that's why we didn't use them

[@DragonFly1967]

I was once at a job and saw a V8 3.5l Range Rover tow a fully loaded artic with a blown front wheel from lane 3 to the hard shoulder, and it didn't even break a sweat. The pulling power was immense!

[@benbmw86]

Exactly there is know bmw are best police cars But that why they stop supplying them because they to reliable and lasting to long they will move for new car small engine low emissions and 50000miles life span or electric Mercedes sold w123 taxi 🚕 all over word used then mercedes company nearly bankrupt because of that

[@hamishfullerton7309]

Jaguar had some ok cars and should have been made to be as good as German cars, Britain shouldn't have accepted they weren't up to scratch ie Rolls Royce's and Jaguar of the 60s

[@stevekenilworth]

whats wrong with rover, honda and rover worked together for quite a few years and some rovers had honda engines.

[@adams7405]

I had the tail end of the SD1 V8 when I worked in Fareham workshops..thought they were surprisingly good,lots of consumables but the V8 going strong at 200,000 miles and they nudged 130 on test with the blue lights flashing.....

[@171rossi]

BMWs have been used because they are bloody good frequent use cars! The 3.0d engines have been excellent for many years and have stood the test of time. They don't keep catching fire, there have less than 10 incidents of fire and BMW have sold over 500,000 3.0 litre diesel engines cars in the UK over the last 25yrs. No car that gets hammered the way the police use them will remain component perfect!

[@robt2379]

When I joined Hampshire Traffic in 1986 we had a selection of cars. Jaguar XJ6, Range Rover, Rover SD1 3.5 and the first BMW 5 series - then 525s. The Jags were always off the road being fixed, the SD1s literally fell to bits although mechanically they were ok. The Range Rovers were very specialist and quite slow, and averaged about 12 to the gallon! The BMWs just came along and quietly did the job they were asked to. The 525s were replaced with 528is and they just did a great job. Never broke down. I remember one that in under three years hit 177,000 of hard usage and was still a good car. And for the bean counters, they were the cheapest to run. The purchase price is a small part of the lifetime costs! At that time, the BMW motorcycle I rode cost more per mile of its life that the patrol cars and thats one of the reasons you wont see many police bikes on the road today. We did have other cars to try. Rover 825 and 827 (great Honda engines but otherwise rubbish). Vauxhall Senators (great car and they were rebadged from Opel to look more "British!) but the BMWs were just the best at that time. Then along came the Volvo T5s and they took over that role..

[@bensmithers]

Pipe down you filthy rozzer 😆

[@AJ-tj7jm]

In the early 2000's a few forces ran the Accord type R it proved to be a great bit of kit on a par with the Impreza and Lancers

[@M.E63]

Too much technology in cars for them to be reliable, too many electronics and electrical faults, electronic components can fail anytime and with the semi conductor shortage I bet there using anything they can get hold of so probably worse quality now, BMW cars never been reliable, we had the notorious n47 engine and that same issue bmw couldn’t fix, even after 10 years new cars was having timing chain issues, bmw have made a few reliable cars but very rare and we can forget about JLR, they are the worse, Lexus and Toyota are decent when it comes to reliability and even 50% of Hyundai cars are reliably maybe more

[@robt2379]

@@AJ-tj7jm Highly tuned cars were not used as patrol cars as they required too much maintenance and too prone to faults. There were often cars like Lotus Carlton on test but never suitable to do 500+ miles a day, week after week...

[@vaultdweller2287]

Is it just me or the 96 xj6 was the most reliable jags at the time? I see tons of people at 300k miles with them but it could be the xj8

[@99tisard]

Wait until they have to have EV police cars. Lights on while at a call, then they jump back in to go to another emergency, but wait, the battery's flat. Oh dear! Or are the emergency services going to be the only ones allowed to still use combustion engines?

[@djtaylorutube]

Surely you know that LED lights would be a negligible load?

[@charfont]

Scottish police did this and where trying to charge them out of a 3 pin socket from the office…fail.

[@99tisard]

@@charfont I seem to remember this! Didn't the numpties forget to install the charging points? 🤣🤣

[@djtaylorutube]

@@charfont That's only a fail if the expectation wasn't met. Charging from a domestic outlet is functionally fine if the use case is met by a charge that is suitable for the required use, followed by an overnight charge at a low rate.

[@andrewcheadle948]

Ah nothing to worry about, as long as the cars have rainbows on them.

[@JustLimburger]

The only car in my family that caught on fire was a 1999 mk1 Land Rover Freelander petrol. Small disclaimer, it was the BMW made K-series I4 engine that Land Rover decided to put into it. It was a disaster... a lot of them broke and/or burned down.

[@jasonwelsh5986]

The government has never backed British businesses for a long time. I remember when we needed new trains I believe it was for cross rail. They singed a contract with Siemens German firm it almost bank ruptured the train builders company over here Bombardier.

[@whizzalloverthecity]

Crossrail rolling stock are Bombardier trains. Bombardier was a Canadian company, but trains were built in Derby. They were bought by the French company Alstom which built the 1997 Tube train stock for the Jubilee line. There was some bruhaha with the new Tube for London trains between Bombardier and Siemens. But Siemens won thr contract and will build half of the total number in Yorkshire with the other half coming from Austria.

[@MadIIMike]

Trains are/were a mess. IIRC Siemens wanted to merge with Alstrom, because they have a huge market share IMO without having great tech. EU canceled that out and Alstrom switched sides and bought Bombardier hoping to put Siemens out of contention. The issue was however, that Alstrom couldn't let the small fry they bought have better products than them. So in the end, Siemens gained market share because Alstrom still doesn't know what to do with Bombardier and last I heard it might go the way of all things... and become chinese. Quite a shame, as Bombardier produced some of the best designs IMO, like the Twindexx Vario line.

[@John_Wood_]

Probably plenty of private beemers handed out the back door on the back of it.

[@hypergolic8468]

The problem was, under EU bidding rules the total cost of project and it's finance had to be factored in. At that moment the German banks could provide the total cost for less than the Canadian companies banks could. Other European countries on a similar bid would factor in wider questions about the social cost of not procuring or producing locally etc: the UK did not.

[@mikesimpson3121]

I think you will find the real reason is that when we joined the EU in 1972 (or EEC as it was then) we agreed to close all of our heavy engineering (that not associated with defence or oil) as contracts were completed. The HST was already underway and the class 91 was part of the electrification program. The heavy freight classes were needed as part of that program but after allowing the class 60 and I think the 68 we were refused permission to build more, and had to go to the USA for the next batch of heavy freight locos.

[@paulrobinson3528]

I used to work for MG Rover Press Garage until they're demise. We used to supply a few Rover 75/ZT to the police to test. Now these had the KV6 petrol engines and they said they were good but lacked midrange performance so Rover listened & strapped a turbo to it and they liked them so much more. Us British severely lack patriotism and support for our own UK designed and built products. I hope the police start using JLR products. It would be good for our economy instead of send our money to Germany! Don't forget, its not just the cost of buying the car, look at the money spent on all genuine parts from oil filters to bumpers wings doors etc etc, its all money going to BMW.

[@eddie7167]

BMW has its own dedicated production line for emergency vehicles (BMW Authorities) so they've been able to offer UK Police forces big discounts. The cars arrive with lights, sirens, additional wiring looms and auxiliary power already fitted saving money. The N57 issue has made alot of forces switch brands though.

[@br0leg274]

The problem is the stupid exhaust gas recirculation. I life in Germany and we get 3th rollback for the n57 for exchanging the EGR cooler… If you deactivated it, the n57 is a superfine diesel engine 😅

[@alexselby349]

This is no different to bus operators dropping Volvo in 2006/7 for their noisy B7TL engine where the fans always roared. As soon as Volvo brought in a new quieter B9 engine, they all came back to Volvo from other rivals. Saw a new X3 petrol 2.0i patrol car with the Met this morning. They are switching to petrol due to cost of diesel.

[@stevesmith7530]

they dont come with lights/sirens/video etc. Different forces use different kit, and is often reused from retired vehicles. There are loom extensions, heavy-duty alternators etc, and some extra options in some of the ECUs that don't get made available in standard production models

[@lenyard]

Bmw owned the rover group before the pheonix group, all the best rovers are BMW

[@howard4510]

BMW bought Mini …. Honda owned Rover

[@Hadronyx1]

And here I am sitting with my BMW X3 f25 35d with over 380,000 km on it with no Problems. Stop giving regular working people exotic engines to handle. They won't drive them correctly - no warming up the engine, permanent switching off and on the engine, not waiting 2-3 minutes for the turbo chargers to cool down before switching off the engine. This engine is a piece of a art. If you change the oil every 30.000km, don't warm the engine and let components cool down, I have bad news for you

[@williamoakes664]

I run an n57 powered 330d and it’s fantastic, I wouldn’t change it despite these concerns as it simply doesn’t do/suffer the same sort of work. It’s the idling that kills any diesels performance…as for the egr cooler that’s the part being recalled in all these models (including mine) it’s the most likely part to suffer carbon build up from an engine sitting idling for long periods or being used on lots of local stop start journeys (combined with a plastic intake manifold creates a fire risk) then booted to sustain +100mph stints. Diesels work best when hot and the problems occur for these bigger engines in particular when used in the wrong environments and ultimately allowed to build up excessive carbon deposits. I try and refrain from using my car on short journeys and retain it for the open road journeys where it keeps itself clean One key thing you can note regards a bmw running an n57 is that the temperature gauge on the dash is displaying engine oil temperature as opposed to coolant temp…this is unique compared to almost any other car I’ve run and is very telling, drive it to the shops and back and it’s barely registered from cold, get it out on the open road and get it to the middle setting and it’s in its happy place, I’m willing to guess that all incidents come from a car being ragged having sustained long periods at idle and ultimately sitting with a cold engine. Hence the police decision to remove from their fleet is probably a wise move considering what they do with them…maybe the best option would have been to stick with beemer (who else could they use to keep up with the baddies in high powered German whips) but switch to the b58 powered petrol lumps that would suffer the idle to flat out scenario better than the diesels…for the rest of us domestic users they’re wonderful devices that combine economy with blistering performance.

[@dr-mn7ld]

Yep the EGR is open at idle and they didn't intend for them to idle for hours on end. Completely new part now being fitted to all cars FOC.

[@danieloscolos8508]

won't higher maintenance of diesel engines be offset by lower fuel costs tho?

[@normality9680]

@@danieloscolos8508 Diesel is more expensive over here by a fair bit now

[@Slm16Z]

Spot on 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@DANNYGUJA]

Well explained

[@chevchelios8582]

I don’t understand why German cars still have such a good rep. It’s like they’re still trading on the back of tanks like the E39, W124, Mk2 Golf, 190E from 25+ years ago! Overpriced & overrated.

[@nickangel4914]

Hi Geoff, Just so you’re in the know :) Generally it’s only the specialised Traffic Department that use premium brand vehicles, the rest of us are in Astras and 308s, BMW and Volvo offer massive discounts on police vehicles. At one point BMW offered to match the price of Vauxhall Astras and replace all front line response vehicles with the BMW 3 series. They would only do this if a large group of forces agreed and would serve to benefit them as it’s seen as a massive advertisement to have the police using their vehicles. This didn’t happen as forces were worried about public perception of every officer going around in a BMW

[@jimmydesouza4375]

It wouldn't benefit them due to advertisement, it'd benefit them because of maintenance costs.

[@MrAvant123]

In reality I think this is one of the main reasons BMW dont want to supply to Police forces any more as they have plenty of other markets with a lot more margin..

[@PillSharks]

Just when the British car industry needed the revenue our emergency serviced turned away from them… personally I think it has to do with denationalisation of the UK. Everything we used was built in Britain and we did it well until the 70 and 80s. Look at the ships built by yards like swan hunter on the Tyne.. we had dry docks all over the country and we even had a merchant fleet with British crews… that’s all gone! Motorbikes, cars, trucks and trains were all built in Britain and exported all over the world by the ships we built and crewed. We can’t even claim that we build the Land Rover Defender anymore within this island!

[@lewlewis6511]

I've been driving artics since the 70's, everywhere i went in the country was the same, factories closing pits closing steelworks anything you could think of, go past a year later and its houses or shopping centres. Our 'industry' now comprises of massive warehouses full to the rafters of chinese tat. It has been the deliberate destruction of industrial britain, all you can do is weep over what they have done. The thing that gets to me is working class people think we can vote our way out of what we now have and for what we are about to receive, what they haven't twigged is that those who caused all of this actually detest us, the working people of the country.

[@PillSharks]

@@lewlewis6511 respect to you sticking at it mate…6 years was enough for me on the wagons! Yep, I totally agree with you.. I work around shipping now and I see everything which comes and goes with container after container from China and empty one’s going back out on feeder ships! When I started many of the old boys were still there, they would say that if the ports needed anything it was made in house with every tool you could think of…nothing was done outside the UK! As for the voting…well how anyone can think we still live in a democratic society is beyond me.

[@andicog]

Yep, lots of people here rubbishing British vehicles but perhaps had previous governments insisted that utility companies, police, fire and public transport and armed forces bought British then they would have had the funds to invest in better development. We can obviousley build decent vehicles here as Nissan, Toyota, BMW etc do manufacture here, we just need British ownership.

[@LeeJonesNPT]

Back in the late 80's we had Rover 827's together with Vauxhall Senators as a patrol cars. All general patrol vehicles were escorts, Montego maestro, Rover 214/216, Transit and sherpa vans. The 827 Rovers used Honda engines and these similar to the current BMW engines overheated easily. The reality was the Leyland Rover cars fell apart due to so much "misuse' . The majority of forces moved to British built Peugeot 309 GP vehicles and Volvo patrol cars, the T5 had massive brake issues due to so much abuse and after that the German cars came in. There were no British made cars left to purchase.

[@charfont]

I used to know an m6 patrol office when they used rangerovers but stop using them because they “ looked too aggressive “ I’ve also wondered why we don’t use uk made vehicles. Once again spending some else’s money is easy.

[@paulie-Gualtieri.]

Also pre P38 Range Rovers were very unstable at high speeds.

[@andrewcheadle948]

Look too aggressive.... Soften em up with a few rainbows. Job done.

[@paulie-Gualtieri.]

@Andrew cheadle Lol 😆 🤣

[@86501freightliner]

@@paulie-Gualtieri. there's a video on KZbin of a Metropolitan Police Range Rover Classic pursuing a transit van along the M25, it lurched about alarmingly! The Met's ones weren't really meant for pursuits, they were more designed to be traffic response vehicles for serious collisions.

[@richardclarke376]

@@86501freightliner that's a great video - in the end the Range Rover nudges the transit van off the road.

[@dennism7813]

Regarding not buying British cars, I seems to recall it being mentioned on several different occasions when we had a struggling industry like for instance the Steel some years ago and people were asking why can't the government help them.the answer was, under EU rules, the government can't give assistance since it would unfairly benefit them over competitors in the single market BUT it never stopped the French or Germans supporting theirs when it suited them. This is why it was so important to get the he'll out of that abusive club.

[@mustrumridcully3853]

Except They could have provided support - IF they had classified it as "In the National Interest" - Perhaps you could look at the facts - can we have some benfits of leaving the Eu as you are such an expert?

[@gegwen7440]

The UK was the only country to “actually” follow those rules though & the French would only do whatever suited them.

[@hermanmunster3358]

Absolutely, people seem to forget that the EU is highly protectionist, in FAVOUR of their founding members. So the UK has ALWAYS been at a disadvantage as a member. You just need to look at farming and fishing industries to realise that. We weren't even allowed to produce enough food to sustain ourselves, never mind exports. And a lot of fruit and veg, as well as grain, we were forced to IMPORT. As Brexiteers, we knew there may be problems initially, with having to adjust our economy to suit. And the EU, WEF, and NWO, Obama, then Biden, have done their level best to scupper Brexit with veiled threats ever since, and are now using the Irish situation as a bargaining chip, in a VICIOUS attempt to destroy the UK! Add to that the MAN MADE pandemic, which devastated most economies around the world, and THAT is why we are struggling now, and Europhile Globalist NWO/WEF puppet politicians and media aren't helping the situation at all, as well as a GimmeGrant crisis, and that, in Layman's terms, is why we are in the sh*t now.

[@hermanmunster3358]

@@mustrumridcully3853 You are forgetting that we have just come out of a 2 year pandemic, which has devastated many economies. Had it not been for that, and a GimmeGrant crisis, we would be in a much stronger position, had we had a chance to adjust, and iron out our teething troubles. But the WEF and NWO couldnt allow us to do that, oh no! As that would scupper THEIR plans of a global social credit system, and a single world government, hence a man made virus to bring everyone back in line. You really have no idea, do you? You think governments act in the interests of people, when really, all they ARE concerned about, is keeping the wheels of commerce turning, AT ANY COST!

[@meguinness1116]

What alot of rubbish you talking about the EU. Even before the EU was created each country used their own national car manufacturers... Italian police and Carabiniers for example have and still using AlfaRomeo. Stop criticise the EU because of the incompetence of the UK government selling everything we have to other countries.....take the rails company for example. Search deeper and see who is benefiting to have had BMW providing cars to the UK Police . Someone as been lobbing for this for many years...and who is been taking brown envelopes to make it happen.

[@IanDarley]

I've owned 3 330ds 1 335d and currently run a 530d all without issue with overheating or coolant loss (though I've just had a recall letter for the EGR cooler, it's going in to have it changed next week). They probably chose them because they do 40-50 MPG average and have the best part of 300BHP.

[@00kirbyd]

Nice - but you don't use them like the police do by the sounds of it. BMWs were famed for strong engines, but since they started replacing metal engine bits with plastic, adding weak timing chains and recommending customers have long life servicing - it's all gone badly wrong for their reputation.

[@BeatByBots]

Mercedes have timing chain issues also. Not to mention the offset steering wheel.

[@SW-sz8ji]

yeah but council estates are full of them

[@lshsparks1155]

Just had my 35d cooler recall done. Same here no issue with it mid 40s average mpg for me. Non Xdrive 30d probably the pick of the N57s 👍

[@johnguidetti5839]

@@SW-sz8ji What car do you drive? Curious with your silly judgmental comments?

[@patl709]

Many years ago I asked the Met's Director of Transport the very same question. And the reply, which has been stated already in these comments, was that BMW offered a fantastic deal that no other manufacturer came close to matching. This included service support (not sure if that was parts or whether BMW actually would service the cars?) for the vehicles. When combined with very good resale values, which was also improved by painting the cars silver rather than the traditional white, it was a simple and easy business decision. No Government department, to the best of my knowledge, was ever required to consider matters about supporting the home car industry, just making the best economic deal possible for the purchaser.

[@westleycharringate9526]

The EU had a big hand in why BMW gained the long contract to supply the British police forces. The London Met actually tested the Jag XF and wanted the XF instead of the BMW 5 Series. In the end, BMWs financial power meant they could undercut Jaguar Land Rover on price and eventually came out as the winner under EU rules (EU stating UK had to take the cheaper BMW bid to prevent bias to a British based brand.) Funny how it didn’t stop France and Italy buying native car brands.

[@terryo5672]

The 3 litre BMW diesel is a perfect mix of rapid performance and economy.

[@Clilne]

I agree with you. I'm italian and we had BMWs police cars as well in 2017 while we should be using Alfa Romeo Giulia. I visited England several times and i noticed police using BMWs or Vauxhall (Opel) and I was wondering why, because i know you guys have a great great car culture there.

[@FlorinArjocu]

You know they also have to be reliable for more "industrial" use, right? If you read the comments, you will see that when they used local brands they were either unreliable, often offline, or had a very bad milleage. That means you either need lots of backups, or you cannod do your patrol job or it is very expensive.

[@blocksource4192]

New bmw b57s/n57s are wayy more reliable than any alfa romeo man...

[@stevebendell702]

I was a traffic officer 1980 to 93, retired many years ago, in the city we had 3.0l Granada S, moving to the 2.8 Granada, they were good cars but discontinued Ford then produced the Scorpio, it was awful and a failure for Ford so never continued with that type of vehicle. Out of town we had Rover 3.5 SD1, continually breaking down, falling apart due to poor manufacturing, we also had a couple of Vauxhall Senators, they were not too bad but again production ended. Then the Rover 827 had a brilliant engine but build quality was awful, parts just fell off and that was new cars before heavy use, no surprise we went over to Volvo T5's (after my time) I remember at the end of the production line we bought a load of SD1's, probably very cheap, some were not registered until at least 12 months after production ceased, trouble is the engine bore rusted in storage because they were not started regularly, all had total engine failures needing replacement after not too many miles.

[@cestfixement]

Anecdotally I was told that the tender process for the emergency services came down to Skoda and BMW, they both had competitive pricing and service packages cheaper than any other manufacturer could offer. The ambulance section went with Skoda because it was slightly cheaper and police went with bmw because for the slight extra cost bmw conveys speed and power to the layman, a person with no interest in cars will “know” a bmw is fast and would be less likely to initiate a chase Edit: so my source for this was a police car mechanic and a couple of old ex police fellers (you know the kind, secret handshake)

[@GeoffBuysCars]

My videos seem to be getting hit by ‘WhatsApp me’ spam comments. Please report them if you see them. Obviously they’re not real, I’m not sure what they’re all about but it ain’t me.

[@radishpea6615]

I got a spam message, dont worry, knew it was spam

LOL I've never felt older. "Why didn't the Germans/French use British cars?". As Rob Thompson says below, because they were shit. When I were a lad on a cold winter's morning you could look up and down the road and see kettles of boiling water and bonnets up on the oil stained driveways. I suppose it must be hard to imagine with modern ultra reliable cars. Jimmy Savile was presenting Top of The Pops. Savage times.

[@castlesteve1]

Why are they using bmw motorcycles instead of triumphs?

[@jayc342009]

good question, triumph make brilliant bikes...the problem is this country would rather spend tons of money getting it elsewhere instead of in the UK

[@person.X.]

Triumphs made in Thailand not UK.

[@nicomeier8098]

You telling me that family diesel saloon cars are not meant to be driven like racing cars all day? Astonishing!

[@mikeymike3240]

I absolutely agree wholeheartedly, the higher ups in the emergency services love the backhand car freebie’s of family cars for the wife and kids, it’s happened to me/us in the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service when we moved from Fords (fantastic Ambulance)to crappy narrow Renault Ambulances , if you have a stretcher patient you can’t bring a family member with the patient because the Renault Ambulance is too narrow and you are not allowed to carry anyone up in the cab because they are not insured!!. The Fords were wide bodied with a stretcher either side and a pretty wide channel up the middle for ease of movement with no tripping over the patient’s family’s feet 😊😊. Oh btw I was on the Ambulance steering committee, but you might as well just hit yer head off the walls, cause when Renault offers free family cars 🚗 everything else went out the window 🪟 grrrrr 😡

[@GeoffBuysCars]

What?! Tell me more. No, don't.... email it to me! geoffbuyscars at gmail dot com

[@deswillis3490]

And they tell us that there is not corruption in the Civil Service , they must think the voter is Blind ,Daft and Deaf to what goes on under the table in these purchases. This is politics at its worst, after lies upon lies and still it happens. They tell us that it is all open and transparent What bare faced lies that they still expect us to believe

[@ssrsuspension8247]

same with WMAS, all these swanky X3/X5's for the ASO's...

[@aaaaplay]

Australia is going through a similar transition now. Until recently we had the option of locally built Holden (GM), Ford, and Toyota vehicles. However, when production stopped in 2016 we were left, with few direct replacements i.e. large RWD sedans. Local police forces have been trialling many different vehicles such as Kia Stingers, Chrysler 300 SRT (both discontinued or soon to be), Volkswagen Passat, BMW 530d, etc... Ultimately it looks like Volkswagen and BMW have succeeded. There aren't a lot of options when it comes to rear wheel drive sedans these days. So I can understand why BMW would have been chosen. From what I understand BMW has given very generous deals to each state (New South Wales, Victoria etc..) such as free servicing and deep discounts. Whereas Volkswagen have created a police and emergency specific trim lines of the Passat and Tiguan called Proline. Skoda has also gotten the Superb into service in Western Australia recently. General duty vehicles however, have been far less consistent with a mix of Toyota, Kia, Hyundai and Volkswagens.

[@andicog]

I've never understood why this country uses foreign vehicles for police, public transport and utility vehicles, even our armed forces now use German MAN trucks while Foden, ERF, Scammell etc have gone to the wall. Stagecoach use some MAN chassis buses and the old London bendy buses were Mercedes, local authority transport is usually Mercedes based . Go to Europe and they all use home built vehicles, while we have little left, we could at least use British built vehicles for all our service and government needs.

[@composimmonite3918]

What british vehicles?!🤣🤣

[@andicog]

@@composimmonite3918 at least vehicles built here.

[@leaningtower73]

Well here in Italy may police cars and police motorbikes are BMWs and almost all city buses are Mercedes Benz. Even the majority of trucks from light to heavy duty vehicles are mostly Mercedes Benz

[@glen1555]

The only car I've had that caught fire was a Triumph 2.5 PI, but that was a mechanics error not a Triumph error. Pretty scary when thick smoke was coming through the air vents. Was able to put it out easily using a car fire extinguisher, all the years of having one in the trunk and it actually worked when I needed it

[@anthonybrooker2702]

Elephants keep fire extinguishers up their TRUNKS ?

[@sirmalus5153]

All cars should carry an extinguisher of a good size (not those small canister fit in the hand toy ones) I carry two in my car, a 4KG powder version and a 2KG Co2 version. I have even been 'on scene' for 'beemers' going up like a torch twice. They should be in every mot I recon. It's no good thinking 'oh look, a small fire in a car that I could put out easily right now, if only I had one too hand'. Not even Amazon can deliver an extinguisher fast enough, when you need it in the next 10-20 seconds. One of the beemers that went up nearly had two kids in the back, but the mother hadn't got to the school yet to pick them up. She and her kids were very lucky.

[@allosaurusfragilis7782]

My old mg caught fire....my fault, having left a petrol soaked rag in the engine bay. But surprisingly I had an extinguisher ...and it worked. Maybe I should carry one now....

[@rickt6802]

Totally agree, and public sector should be using British made products full stop

[@danlovelock778]

What British made cars would you suggest?

[@bentullett6068]

@@danlovelock778 ones that actually work and are reliable. That is one big ask though.

[@danlovelock778]

I don't think any modern csrs are very reliable, increasing amount of features due to customer demand and more and more complicated emissions systems along with more power demands from the engine. It just doesn't work

[@trevorford9432]

@@danlovelock778 let's start British Leyland up again, put police in Austin allegro's Morris Marina's 😂🤣😂🤣

[@NH00531]

Nice sentiment but those days are well and truly gone.

[@mohammadcheema7375]

Good question about why forces never bought Rovers in bigger numbers in the early 2000s. Sadly, if you’re middle aged like me you might recall Stelios the EasyJet founder complained, back in the late 90s, that when he phoned Rover to discuss a fleet purchase for his new car hire firm. They never called him back - so he ended up buying thousands of Mercedes A classes instead. Maybe the police got a similarly lacklustre response.

[@williamlumb1710]

With regard to Rover, you have to remember that the management were not there to make Rover a success but to close it down which was to prove their success and satisfy the Thatcher doctrine in smashing British manufacturing.

[@mohammadcheema7375]

@@williamlumb1710 I think you have hit the nail on the head there sadly. Your comment made me recall BMW’s bitter complaints about how the Rover board managed to squander a £500 million interest free loan that was given to them by BMW when they went their separate ways. This is back in the days of 5% base rates when an interest free loan of such a magnitude was unheard of.

[@Phoenix_cataclysm_in_2040]

Imagine salesman knobhead who didn't bother to call back having to explain himself or herself to a boss. 🤔

[@aaaaplay]

I would also add that a fleet manager would need to consider the resale value of those vehicles even if it weren't the primary concern. Rover had been struggling for years by the turn of the century, not exactly confidence boosting. Plus, police sales wouldn't have been enough to keep them from going under.

[@AJ-tj7jm]

​@@mohammadcheema7375The final nail in Rovers coffin came a few years earlier in 1994 when British aerospace sold Rover Group to BMW. The deal effectively ended the partnership Rover had with Honda which had seen Rover produce some of their best engineered and reliable cars the brand had ever made. The only new vehicle launched under BMWs ownership was the 75, the only other project that was funded by BMW was the 35 and 55 concept, the latter was never put into production, the 35 became the 1 Series. The mini as we know it now was already in the final design stages at the time of the takeover and was originally intended to be the replacement for the Rover 100. BMW wanted Rover Group for nothing more than the blueprints to the Range Rover so they could build a capable 4x4, they delayed the launch of two new models that had the potential to save Rover that would have had the young driver appeal and street cred that the Rover brand lacked. They also blocked the Relaunch of the MG brand, which turned out towards the end to be a big mistake as the ZR, ZS and ZT were very popular with the under 30s

[@theostickley6492]

Interesting what you say about loyalty regarding using British made cars etc. Cunard and P&O have not had a ship built in the UK for decades. People will say well there are no yards to build them and I get that but if we keep going overseas there won't be anything British left.

[@keithterry2169]

Chicken and egg again, as the man said.

[@markoneill2819]

Not British, owned by Carnival (US) and register in Bermuda.

[@philtucker1224]

I’m thinking the list of “British made” cars of this quality is a pretty short list?🤔

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

Jag?

[@bostonbikebits6539]

@@markoneill2819 there are 2 carnivals - a us one and a uk onee, both listed separately. Most of P&O uk's ships are built by fincantieri in Italy. I have long suspected that said company has had significant government investment in contradiction to EU rules.

[@daveandrew8845]

Thought it was BMW that canceled the supply. I also read Police were not adhering to correct maintenance schedule as well as using wrong oil. Anyway there are certainly cheaper options but it's not their money... also leave idling and them just floor it is not exactly good for any engine.

[@harold6863]

Some forces were not using the correct oil but that was reference the crankshaft problems. Don’t get me started on that one🤣

[@williamoakes664]

Well said and agreed, idling kills diesels full stop…I suspect bmw pulled the order as the police were giving them a bad name and costing them a fortune recalls.

[@BeatByBots]

Buy a BMW use the wrong oil because it’s cheaper makes no sense to me. Had a few 7 series now 60,000 miles a year no problem.

[@gerardphillips7507]

In the 1970's Police Forces were for the most part independent of each other with decisions being made based upon local needs and the ability of the fleet manager to negotiate the best deal with the manufacturer or dealer. So Police Forces drove Fords Vauxhall Volvo and Rover and Range Rover and sometimes Jaguar. There were excursions in Toyota's, Honda's and the late 1980s Skoda's. In the late 1990s and early 2000s procurement fell into a new era of EU purchasing and forces were encouraged to group together to make fleet purchases. Another nail in the Rover coffin. An example of this collaboration is the Joint Transport Service of Surrey and Sussex Police. Cars are badged with both force emblems. So why didn't Police buy Rover cars, they were actively discouraged by politicians from buying Jaguars in the late 1980 s because they were a luxury car. The Range Rover was vulnerable and required over maintenance to ensure reliability. As for the Rover 825, Rover 75 both in themselves good cars but not a match for the Volvo 850 T5 and their follow ons. As for the BMW look great but not much better than a Mondeo or Vectra. Sadly UK car manufacturers have embraced the green electric battery nonsense from our corrupt politicians and this has killed the UK motor industry, stone dead!

[@Ezz800]

No disrespect to Rover, but I really don’t think they could’ve built cars to a high performance/standard in todays world. Seeing as majority of police cars/vans are diesels, they’d have to heavily rely on foreign powerplants (PSA, I’m looking towards your direction) or go the way their sister company, MG, done and get bought out by the Chinese… They did improve the K-Series unit, something Rover never managed to do.

[@briancarton1804]

@@Ezz800 Improving the K series unit was something Rover seemed to have no desire to do. I am not aware of the Improvements made by the Chinese but I do know a friend of mine worked in a Rover dealership and found better generic head gasket sets than what Rover provided. They wrote to Rover, phoned and sent telex messages informing them about these gaskets. Rover just ignored all these messages. I used these gaskets myself and they were better. Another bug in the K series was a plastic locator dowels between the head and block. These used wear and perished with heat letting the head move causing leaks. Metal dowels would have cost less than 50p. The quality and hardness of the alloy head left a lot to be desired also. For the sake of a few small details the cars could have been so much better.

[@applejuice5272]

@@Ezz800 It was Ricardo plc (UK) who reworked the K Series into the Kavachi engine for SAIC. They went through the K with a very fine toothcomb, fixed all its faults, added dual VVT, improved its manufacturing process and the end result is the Kavachi rework has never suffered a single failure or breakdown.

[@hunchanchoc8418]

Don't forget Humberside using Protons...

[@anthonybrooker2702]

Jack Regan always used FORD

[@bentullett6068]

I agree with what you are saying about the British police not using British made cars. They were using Jaguar's and Land Rovers in the Midlands but they didn't last very long as they spent more time in the garage. Vauxhall is mainly used by the police for small patrol cars in various locations but they no longer sell a high performance car to keep up with faster vehicles on highway patrols.

[@chrisgermann6658]

Jags and Land Rovers are no longer British im afraid.

[@hassyg4083]

@@chrisgermann6658 if they factories in UK they are supporting British jobs

[@simonorr594]

I used to do the Range Rovers at LR SVO. As long as they changed the oil regularly they used to get 250,000 miles out of them. Some forces’ maintenance was awful. I remember one coming in with 4 bald tires- straight off motorway patrol.

[@paulwilson7622]

They should have been using the Rover P6 when they could have. With all cars the police forces in UK use, They should have insisted that British car manufacturers meet higher standards rather than just turn their backs in Britain manufacturers. It is just typical how the British deal with problems, (they did something similar in Australia which no longer has car manufacturing)

[@Cheeky-fingers]

We ran 6 BMW 520d on our fleet of taxis. Different engine to the N57 but still dogged with problems. They were on lease and we got an incredible deal making them cheaper than Skoda's. Two of them on return had new engines at less than 130k. They were sold off by the dealership as virtual scrap.

[@applejuice5272]

N47 - crock of shite

[@Manakuski]

What in the hell did you do to them? We've had six N47 engine BMW:s as taxi here in Finland and none of them have had any issues with their engines whatsoever, apart from the vibration dampener needing to be changed once to all of them due to idling a lot (it gets very cold here in Finland during the winter). Now on our fourth B47 engine and same trend, no issues apart from the vibration dampener. Oil gets changed about every 13-15k kilometers. So less than 10k miles. To me sounds weird, it is much colder here in Finland and the weather can go as low as -35c and up to +35 during a year and the humidity here is quite high since i live near the west coast.

[@andrewmorton3177]

I’ve been running a 2015 N57 F31 335d touring for 6 years now, it’s a fantastic car & I intend to hang on to it for the foreseeable. It’s been virtually flawless, is stupidly quick for what it is & returns an average of 40mpg & 50+mpg on a long run. It’s brilliant…. However it has had 2 recalls done on the egr cooler in the past 2 years…..Yes they “recalled” the recall 🤣

[@malcolmmoy]

Same.

[@Anythingyoulike2013]

My 640i also does 40-50mpg on the motorway, and it's petrol. Best I got is 600miles from the 63litre tank. These diesels will drop like flies and absolutely not be collectors cars in future. Never liked them never will. Sorry!

[@redarmy1778]

@@Anythingyoulike2013 n55 or b58 engine in your 640i?

[@oilyrag525]

I've had my 330d F31 for 7 years now and it's just about to hit 50,000 miles. Many of my journeys are quite short which I know the engine won't like but I've had no issues. Great economy with fabulous performance. I've had two recalls - one for the egr valve and one for the egr cooler.

[@Anythingyoulike2013]

@@redarmy1778 n55, stage 1 tuned, (which also helped fuel economy)

[@glendryhurst8234]

I worked many years in the aviation industry dealing with very large fleets of vehicles, trucks, vans, pickups, cars and special vehicles. We never had problems with British makes and models, but we had many problems with German models. Particular unreliability problems, frequent repairs and very costly spares with VW, Audi, BMW and M.Benz. curiously NO serious problems with Ford, Vauxhall, Rover, Land Rover and no problems with UK made Japanese models and even FIAT, Renault, Peugeot were reliable, but there were loads of breakdowns and repairs with the German makes. Many of our clients and contacts told us they prefered to buy foreign to get the free trips abroad, flights, hotels, tourist sites, meals and entertainment. They did not get any special treats if they visited suppliers at Luton, Dagenham, Birmingham or Cowley. The Germans always bought German, the French always bought French, Italians bought Italian, etc but our UK snobs and traiters destroyed British jobs, they lied about UK brands, exaggerated about German brands and then when their BMW, MD, VW models were off the road for costly repairs, they hid them, told no-one about the failures and continued to waste money on overpriced glamour models. We had Fords, Nissans and Vauxhalls 15 to 20 years old which still worked like new, never broke down and were cheap for parts and repairs while the German glamour models were always going into the workshops for yet more repairs. Quality is NOT defined by a higher price, nor glamour, nor image, nor badges, quality is about reliability, always starting, always working, not failing, not taking up workshop space nor using parts. The worst life cycle costs were with German brands, VW, MAN, Audi, MB. You would not believe the enormous usage and ultra high cost of engine oil burnt in BMWs, but Fords & Fiats would go from one service to the next without losing oil. German brands cost much more to buy, much more for oil and in servicing and parts costs.

[@vspencer9764]

My Mate bought a well used T5 Police car on an L plate and he told me it was pre production as such, as the Police got them to trial first before the public got their hands on them and I can honestly say I’ve never been in a car that fast ever as the thing went warp speed. My father refused to buy any car that was foreign and even through the Leyland years our car’s weren’t as bad as people painted them, as I remember Audi being rot boxes as with most Japanese and Italian cars being the same. I had an Allegro once which is supposed to be the worst thing we produced, yet it was ultra reliable and handled lovely plus was really economical although a bit stodgy to look at and was better than the MK2 Escort it replaced in every way apart from that slick ford gear change.. Patriotism for some reason was beaten out of us while the rest of the world didn’t follow that agenda and now I’m in a German fleet of old bangers, although I did take one back for warranty work at 25 years old, so it cost Germany some money this time round lol, but my rover 400 was a lot more reliable than my equivalent age 3 series.

[@0skar9193]

I had a ride in a police T5 years ago (1991) after I crashed my car, the phrase getting back on bike after you fall off is wrong. I survived crashing an Opal Mantra in the middle of nowhere, scared (covered in blood) 2 old people by flagging them down and taking me to the nearest place with a phone. Motorway cop turned up in a T5 and floored it, I nearly shat myself, fast is not the word I would use!

[@darthgardner]

Rover would not have held the strong and sturdy image yet apart from engines the 400/45 were based on hondas if that was a logical choice. we use to use vauxhall senators which were the motorway munchers with 3L or 4L engines some estate versions with a BMW engine. so what would be the choice now ? vauxhall is now peugeot/citroen renault is part nissan .we had the volvo v60 used by police in the past, i myself think volvo would again be a good choice as long as geely ( volvo,s owners) have not messed with formula too much.

[@jasoncory1327]

Can afford BMW's. But cant afford police officers. 🤪

[@stevenlangdon-griffiths293]

I’m unsure why the filth actually need a fast car at all? They don’t or can’t, or don’t want to drive fast after motorcycle thieves. I witnessed a bmw cruising slowly, akin to a kerb crawler, apparently using its APNR camera to check for untaxed vehicles near me. I’ve noticed a few x5’s on the motorway hard shoulders broken down. Which truly begs the question, why do they need fast cars anyway? Mac Donald’s , Burger King , costa and Mac Donald’s are open 24 hours! There is no need to rush

[@GeorgeThoughts]

I didn't know about the fire hazard issue but I knew Volvo had won the bidding to provide Police vehicles because BMW's contract had expired. I just assumed without the contract anymore that was why BMW shut their specilist Public Services team. Maybe the fire issue was a factor in forces choosing Volvo as their contractor over BMW this time. You mention using British vehicles, but what British vehicles remain? Aren't most owned by international companies now?

[@kass9722]

i guess, british manufactured, which oddly enough, includes...toyota & nissan...so??

[@theostickley6492]

True but the comment was British made! Not owned .. that means a Jaaaaaaag

[@johndyson2528]

Not many cars built in UK now - What a spectacle to see police driving Minis to catch other speeding vehicles or to dash to a motorway pileup, or are we suggesting they use Rolls Royce😂

[@garyc7464]

The point is they could have continued using British vehicles and collaborated on what they needed, instead they took our money and spent it abroad and that's pretty much our government for you, unpatriotic.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

Haha. Google 'Jaguar'.

[@iambenmitchell]

Not an ex police car, but my BMW X1 18d xdrive is a 4x4 with the N47 engine and manual transmission. I got it as my first car last year when I was 19 and just passed my test. It has 180,000 miles now an last week I drove it from Bournemouth to Manchester without stopping, without any issues. The next day I drove it back with 1 piss break and still had no issues. I've never heard of the N47 having overheating issues, I've heard of the timing chain issues though. Still, my N47 with 180,000 miles is running fine. The only issue it has is that it needs a new clutch/flywheel as the bearing has gone. Once you're driving at speed then there's no sound, however, at slow speeds there's a pretty loud sound as the bearing rattles. The sound is also there when idling. It only happens once the car has warmed up a bit though, and seeing as its a £500+ fix, given that I mostly drive on the motorway, I'm not going to bother fixing it.

[@robertgamson2820]

There are rules against public authorities discriminating against foreign products because they are foreign. This is an EU rule applied to members. It is also a rule that applies to many kinds of products in the UK by virtue of later agreements entered into by the previous Governments. Since it was recently publicised that all Government ministers are to have new German cars and despite the outcry there was no change, we can assume the rule still applies to vehicles.

[@theostickley6492]

It seems that this rule purposely discriminates against British made cars etc. Even the 2012 Olympics was flooded with BMWs. I could never imagin the French not using a top range Citroen when it's their turn.

[@robertgamson2820]

@@theostickley6492 There will be ways around rules if someone wants to take that course. All the EU countries break some of the rules.

[@clueless6559]

Britain makes nothing just financial deals for foreign globalists , they have signed this country up to everything other than British.

[@robertgamson2820]

@@clueless6559 The financial services sector makes 10% approx of the GDP of the UK and most of this money is earned from foreign purses. The UK is dependent on that sector and a few globally active companies. It is under attack from the EU which wants to destroy it. You are right to mention the decline of producing companies as being very bad for everyone.

[@matthewnightingale4675]

The ministerial cars not being British is down to no British companies putting in offers when it was out to tender. This was accredited to the increased costs and time mainly put down to parts and materials being held up as a lot come from the EU and the government have such a convoluted system for imports and exports it is crippling many industries and creating long delays.

[@Conservator.]

EU competition rules require public tenders for large government procurements like a fleet of (police)cars. Germany and France cannot exclusively buy cars from their national industries anymore. Also Audi, Mercedes and BMWs aren’t all produced in Germany just like Renaults, Peugeots and Citroëns aren’t all produced in France.

[@danlovelock778]

What "British made" cars are we suggesting then? The Indian owned jaguar or landrover or rangerover? Aka THE most unreliable cars on the road? Or the fiat chrysler psa owned vauxhall wheezebox?

[@666DW]

Why not choose British cars? In a nut shell RELIABILITY !!! Essentially there was only the Rover Group as it was or JLR that could provide the diverse line up of vehicles that the police required. The police have used Discovery’s, Range Rovers and Defenders along with Rover 200’s and 800’s, and reliability was the reason for changing to BMW’s and Volvos. It will be interesting to see how the Volvos fare with their puny 4 cylinder engines and I for one is expecting so fall out from this arrangement!

[@greengrass9572]

No , nut shell AVALIBILITY. There is no british car industry with mass production capability , don't quote MG or jag.

[@venataciamoon2789]

Apparently the emergency services in America are banning EVs as they catch fire too and a nightmare to put out. Hope we don't change to those cars and the cost of buying them. Seems to be this country all over doesn't it, not supporting our own industry. Totally agree.

[@wyattfamily8997]

That would require politicians with Courage.

[@glen1555]

US and Canadian forces used lots of Ford Crown Victoria cars which were brilliant police cars. Saw a tv show in 2009 which compared police versions of the Crown Vic against a police Volvo 850, and it came out the best. A work colleague bought a used one, despite it's very high mileage it was amazing with the extra specs and upgrades. But Ford discontinued that car and my local force bought Chevy Impalas instead

[@tomrobsmith4410]

What industry?

[@seancooke7332]

You are telling me that the BMW 3.0 litre diesel engine overheats and can catch fire with very high speed running. I thought that this one one of the best and strongest engines in the world. Even better than my 2009 Audi A8's 3.0 litre V6 TDI. I know from Matt Richardson's Furious Driving Channel that the Ford Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 Police Interceptor that he bought was designed to be idling for hours on end and thrashed at maximum speed on emergency calls as and when required. These cars are from a Mass Market Manufacturer and they do not overheat, or catch fire, or even break down. Surely a Premium Vehicle like a BMW should be at least twice as good at Police Duties than a simply assembled American Ford. We need to bring back the Ford Granada 2.9 V6, Mondeo V6, Rover 827 V6 or the Vauxhall Senator or Omega V6 for the Police and forget about over complicated Diesel Engines. Just buy a few more gallons of Super Unleaded instead of running vehicles that may use less fuel but overheat and are a fire risk.

[@willshaw24]

I heard back in 2012 ish off a traffic cop that they preferred the old T5 over a beemer as it was more stable top end with a heavy load of cones and whatever else they carried in the boot. I was surprised. Also as a rover sd1 nut I heard you didn't want to see an sd1 in your rear view mirror as you had no chance. Watch the 'liver run' amazing work of the police in a rover sd1.

[@tomrobsmith4410]

The only time you saw an SD1 in your rear view,was if you were towing it

[@alanjones8256]

Gerrman border guards (Grenzschutzpolitzei) bought Land Rover Discovery in the late 90s. Italian Carabinieri ran hundreds of land Rover Defenders. French protection civile had hundreds of Defenders as well. BMW always offered huge discounts on official cars to governments. Now with the fall in value of the Pound and shortages in supply chain, BMW prefers to sell the cars full price to private customers in europe in euros. Nothing to do with engines. Same engines in police cars in Germany doing same job I am Ex Land rover and BMW employee

[@davidbarnard1126]

So they have known about this problem from the 90s. Its taken them 20 PLUS FVCKIN' YEARS to make a decision ????

[@NaturallyAspirated250]

My mumin Israel is a traffic cop for over 25 years, her district is using Toyota's for all that time, starting with the Carina II all the way to the current Corolla hybrids. The needs are obviously different but from a reliability point she say the cars are very dependable and serve up to 8 years before they sell them off.

[@Qthewingedserpent]

Bring back the Sd1 and Granadas!

[@sandwichbar8226]

Senator!

[@drstrangelove4998]

The SD1 I liked, but it was v unreliable

[@Qthewingedserpent]

@@drstrangelove4998 I owned as a 19-26 year old quite a few, 2300s first, then a manual 2600 ex cop car, then a 3500s, then a v8s and finally a vdp efi which I didn’t know at the time was a factory prototype ( A23 WOE info is out there) never any trouble for me, but I am aware of reputation.

[@Qthewingedserpent]

Miss them.

[@roadgent7921]

Ford Anglia in white and light blue. 😆

[@Dazzc2011]

I like the way BMW declares that THEY are deciding not to sell to police forces. Big difficult to have a division to concentrate on that when police forces aren't going to buy from you. Where I live in the Northumbria police area they stopped using BMW's for ages ago for the fire reasons

[@johnfurey3593]

That's funny as they have a order for 2000 more cars from their hams hall plant.

[@ghl3488]

I am currently on my 6th BMW. 2 320d's, 1 325d, 2 330d's and currently in a 440d. The only issue I have ever had in over a quarter of a million miles is a gearbox failure on the 325. That had 112000 miles on it when the box went. BMW offered to pay half the cost, which they did, because they were not happy it failed. Never had an overheating issue. In 2015 the N57 engine was replaced with the B57 engine according to the internet. NPCC statement says the problem is on older vehicles, presumably between 2007 and 2015 unless the B57 engine has the same issue? Overall fantastic product in my experience. I don't drive the car hard though.

[@billy4072]

Got any indicator stalks?

[@ghl3488]

@@billy4072 no need as I havn't got any arms

[@whizzalloverthecity]

Isn't there a story about one of Rover's fleet salesmen being made redundant or retiring and getting a job at Hyundai? They were like "we're not really into this fleet shit, but we'll give you a little something if you sell a few cars". He ended up selling loads of i30s to the Met, his pockets were brimmed with silver and Hyundai is now a huge fleet supplier (and not just to the rozzers.)

[@richarddumont5389]

I am the happy owner of a 430d xdrive it is a highway car not made for being stuck into traffic or hopping from place to place let alone being kept idling on the side of the road. My EGR heat exchanger has been replaced FOC as part of a recall in 2018. When used for what it was meant to be… this engine is economical and a lot of fun at the same time.

[@-sargntclashroyaleandmore-491]

The N57... "Coolant leaking from the EGR cooler", "premature timing chain wear", aswell as the "odd bearing failure"

[@Stop..carry-on]

German quality engineering

[@williamoakes664]

All caused from being used in the wrong environments and not having regular enough servicing ultimately. Open road cars not shopping trolleys or Chelsea tractors (how many of these engines are fitted in x5’s doing the school run!?!) Mine doesn’t have any of those issues but gets used correctly and oils changed far more frequently than the service schedule dictates (considering most were sold as fleet vehicles procurement teams focused on long service life as a good thing….for the three years in their care etc)

[@BeatByBots]

Had a number of BMW diesels most going up to 400,000 running 2x 730ld at the moment with over 200,000 no problems. Service is key.

[@stevenwreyford4570]

@@williamoakes664 If you had ever owned an X5 for longer than 2 two or three years you would know that this isn't true. Listed defects by OP are ALL known, common issues due to design faults. Disintegrating plastic timing chain guides have nothing to do with whether the car is used on a school run or not. EGR valve issues - this is euro emission technology dependency that has been introduced that causes huge issues with respect to reliability - pumping dirty diesel particulate back into the engine blocks and clogs up everything (including the valve itself) - there is nothing in the service schedule including an oil change that addresses this, so changing oil and filter once a month is not going to help.

[@realmusicreallife]

@@stevenwreyford4570 funny that because i have a x5 40d twin turbo. It has 95 on clock. Literally only thing that has gone wrong is the egr valve. I drive it at least once a week on motorway to regen the dpf and somtimes floor it to a high speed. Regaular oil changes myself with castrol edge and and use bp ultimate. Its still literally perfect to this day. Smoked a golf r last night also we was neck and neck but i was slightly ahead. Trust me my beemer gets used properly. Making sure oil is up to temp and stuff is also important. Plus mine is a individual spec.

[@MrJordanwain]

Unfortunately this country has never been patriotic in terms of procurement. It should have been the basis of uk authority purchasing.

[@michaelarchangel1163]

A pal's had his 2016 330D recalled and fixed. Is the fix not a reliable and permanent one ? As regards not purchasing police cars made in the UK, as others have suggested, it's likely down to bungs and government approved EU analingus.

[@stumo8681]

The issue with the engine that resulted in the sad death of the officer, was the bottom end bearings. Re British cars they were used when suitable vehicles were produced. The 820 vitesse and 827 was used up to the late 90s Vauxhall senators were very well thought of by many forces. Range rovers also

[@grahamhaynes7658]

Wasn't the Rover a Honda derived motor and the Senator a Opel?.

[@cjmillsnun]

@@grahamhaynes7658 The 820 Vitesse was the 2 Ltr T series turbocharged. But the 827s were Honda engines and the Senators/Carltons were Opel designs. That said, they were assembled here.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

How does a big end bearing cause a catastrophic, fatal blaze?

[@stumo8681]

@@offshoretomorrow3346 3 figure speed run, crankshaft/ conrod failure, 5 litres of oil exits engine onto hot exhaust turbo DPF etc, car slid on its own oil slick, flipped over. The accident was detailed in a paper local to where it happened, very grim stuff, a genuine tragedy. The bearing failure can be accelerated by oil dilution from DPF regeneration, which is likely given how police vehicles are operated. Oil dilution and subsequent oil growth can cause diesel runaway, again usually catastrophic and can cause fire.

[@WhiteDieselShed]

And when they released the Rover 800 range some forces Stockpiled the outgoing V8 SD1's.

[@paulie-Gualtieri.]

I remember the Rover SD1s being replaced by the Vauxhall Senator, hard to say what they could use after BMW, maybe it will be Audi for motorway work, Skodas are popping up in my local area now.

[@stevemiller9299]

Volvo

[@nickcoppard5335]

Give them twizzy

[@0skar9193]

Range Rovers for motorway work

[@rayman3300]

@@0skar9193 Not reliable !

[@williamoakes664]

@@0skar9193 hahahahahahhahaha you’re a comedian clearly

[@richardharkness9427]

Surely BMW are liable and should be compensating police services and this officer's widow

[@melyvaldez3311]

I seem to remember this issue re BMWs being used as police came up years ago and the explanation at the time was that the resale value of the BMW's and in particular silver vehicles, was higher than most other vehicles resulting in lower depreciation over the period of ownership. i.e basically it cost the police less to own these vehicles over a set period of time.

[@ARBAN30]

I bought a similar car from a renowned big dealer in the Hertfordshire, we later realised or noticed a fish odour coming from the vents and my asthmatic son was the first to notice it. We then started investigating and later noticed a recall on the same problem you are discussing now. We were still within the cooling off period I wrote to the dealer complaining about this same issue. Eventually we returned the car I am relieved I did. They are nice cars but I wasn't content after finding out about the safety recall and fishy rotten egg odour. I know saying this, it's not like I was going to use it or drive it like the police do but I do a lot of travelling. Thank you for the post

[@hyperstic-kk7cx]

Public sector procurement has to follow financial regulations, due to the value of these contract the opportunity has to be tendered and suppliers have to bid. It’s not a case of approaching suppliers and making a deal directly with them. Maybe that helps inform this video.

[@rosswootton8825]

I’ve long thought it was a disgrace that UK police forces have been allowed to spend huge amounts of taxpayer’s money on ridiculously expensive BMWs, especially back in the day when there were genuinely British alternatives. Sadly our once great motor industry is no more, all we have now is a handful of foreign owned companies that just happen to manufacture here, but for how much longer?

[@fugawiaus]

Seems strange that they would overheat. We use them in australia as highway patrol vehicles. (A bit warmer than the UK). Our highway patrol tends to “hot up” our cars so maybe our ones have improved cooling.

[@frankcooper7223]

BMW police cars in Australia are not affected because the fault applies to older models with different engines.

[@mrstupid]

When the police have to use EV cars, anyone with a petrol car just has to let them follow very fast. The battery shuts down to avoid overheating so petrol car man rides again for another chase.

[@bentullett6068]

Or buy a diesel they can last longer on fuel compared to a petrol.

[@steve00alt70]

The police are exempt from EV's due to the nature of their work.

[@CoastHobbit9340]

The very first foreign police vehicles in the UK were Hampshire Police Volvos, the venerable 121 "Amazons" back in 1965. A long term test of the only three cars suitable for heavily-laden all-day motorway mileages - three estate cars, a Humber, a Citroën and the Volvo - found the Volvo to be leagues ahead of the others. The Volvo era also ushered in new-fangled two tone sirens instead of antiquated Winkworth bells and police drivers soon came to appreciate the tight turning circle, good performance, astounding safety standards and very comfortable seats, while the bean counters nodded approvingly at the lower running costs and vastly superior reliability. Volvo added BMWs to their fleet when the 240 estate ended production and was not initially replaced, but by then Thames Valley and the City of London had already switched their allegiance to Bavaria and the die was cast. It is rumoured that the Prime Minister and his cabinet will soon be ferried around in ministerial Audis, since Jaguar's post-pandemic production has not kept pace with demand.

[@loranger6447]

A Toyota Corolla estate would be a great UK police car. Lots of room at the back, good mpg, reliable and it’s made in England.

[@hassyg4083]

they've got toyota local patrol cars now

[@loranger6447]

Pretty cool

[@bob808]

HA, I wonder what this means for the Australian police (specifically NSW) using BMW 530 diesels... LOL. The BMW 530 (and Chrysler 300 SRT) replaced the locally made Fords and Holdens. Even our PM has a fleet of BMW's, his specifically is a _Protection_ 7 Series.

[@danh3017]

When I was in emergency services we had a few x3 30d's. Lovely to drive and they were fast. I'll assume they had the n57 engine... I don't recall hearing about any fires but we did swap them over to skoda octavia scouts also 4wd and auto. Not as quick but still a very capable car and just as nice to drive

[@thefiestaguy8831]

As a UK officer, you're slightly wrong with your view. The cars for the most part are entirely standard, they might remove some trim and add hard wearing materials, remove items that could be used as a weapon, they'll fit fire extinguishers in a holder under the seats, some have the normal car radio removed and a police one fitted, or a touchscreen computer in it's place. Firearms typically use BMW X5's (Also now using Volvo XC90's) that will have upgraded suspension, but other than those mentioned parts, they're stock. They aren't "remapped" or "Tuned" as many people think. Simply because they need vehicles that will work reliably, will start every time, won't suddenly die mid-blue light run because the ECU's crapped out as a result of a glitch with the software ECU tuning... Also, they don't get them at a "discount". They get them at basically "COST PRICE". Where I serve we use an engineering firm, the firm buys hundreds of cars each month and fits them out to differing standard for each different force, as a result of buying hundreds of cars a month they get massive discounts. So to buy a car, and fit it with decals, lightbar, siren, radios, GPS unit, MDT (touchscreen computer) works out for the force the SAME cost as just buying the car without anything fitted or applied from the manufacturer. You might think "fitting out" a police car is cheap, it really isn't. Just the cost of fitting everything need alone runs into thousands, typically in the region of £2,000-£5,000 depending on exact specification required. And that is AFTER you've paid for the car. Where I am many of our vehicles are leased, some are owned by the force but many are on a 3-4 year lease, with the next "new fleet" arriving every 3-4 years. As for the "Why German?" question, BMW worked alongside a lot of forces and agreed to provide good deals, when you consider the force might pay £10,000 for a fully kitted out Ford Focus or Vauxhall Astra, or they could pay £10k for a BMW. It's not difficult to see why they choose BMW. The superior build quality is part of it but as a general rule they are quite reliable.

[@lewis72]

What cars do the German police use ?

[@Knnnkncht]

VW Passat, Opel meriva, Mercedes Vito, Sprinter, E-class, A4, Tiguan..

[@iaincathro3373]

I was friends with a Scottish traffic instructor. A sergeant. Tayside Police. They were running 2.8 Granadas at the time, and still ran 3.5 P6s. When the Cosworth came along he said the cops hated them because they were too low to the ground and too small. They moved to BMWs because the alternatives were crap it’s as simple as that.

[@barney3417]

There are performance and suitability standards set for all police vehicles in particular Class 1 police vehicles. These requirements are set by the home office. the choice of vehicles that meet these standards are very limited in the UK built car market, in fact almost non existent !!!shame but there it is !!!!

[@ramblingman8992]

The engine fires in BMWs are not just limited to Police cars. There have been at least 3 deaths from BMW engine fires in vehicles owned by the general public. These were investigated by TV consumer program's and BMW has consistently denied there is a problem.

[@geordiemagpie8785]

Spot on with buy british only comment, Yeah they might be cheaper for the force to buy. But I bet BMW more then make up for the discount with regular after sales for parts..

[@faithlesshound5621]

According to the BBC report (15/1/23) on the inquest of the police officer who died in a diesel BMW, the problem was not just "overheating." It was a defect that interrupted the flow of oil which led to it catching fire. They said 5 to 7 police BMWs had broken down EVERY MONTH for this reason over a period of three years. The police had decided to stop buying these models with N57 (3 litre turbo diesel) engines. BMW said they were not withdrawing the model, since the problem was due to the way the police used the cars. The BBC said it was due to driving them flat out, which "civilians" apparently do not do. Your report referred to leaving the engine idling when parked, which is something I see often in supermarket car parks. BMW seem to be getting off scot-free here. If Ralph Nader was still alive and an Englishman, they would be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter and the officer's widow would be getting massive punitive damages. Remember "Unsafe at Any Speed" and how he went after the Chevrolette Corvair? General Motors had calculated that it was cheaper to pay compensation for deaths than to fix the suspension problem causing the car to roll over.

[@jonnyc429]

He has a point - at the time when we still had Rover, a lot of good would have been done to have the police buy from them. I wonder if that might have also influenced design and had them be more durable too. Too late now of course

[@MrHabushi]

"Why were we not supporting our own car industry?" - perhaps a question better aimed at the British car-buying public than the police who have rather specific vehicle requirements? It's curious that fire services never get flack for using Volvo and Scania or the ambulance trusts for using Merc and Fiat, yet the police are routinely criticised for buying foreign. On the topic of other countries using foreign vehicles, it's rather common. Spanish police use Renault and the Italians have had quite a few SEATs.

[@the_gidfather]

My guesses would be some sort of combination of procurement rules being more neutral and 'fairer', more competitive pricing from companies trying to get a foot in the door so to speak, the cars being better, but also there could be a lack of interest from British car companies to supply them to emergency services. Don't forget the Proffessionals TV series was going to have BL cars before they were unreliable and the company CBA so Ford stepped in

[@davecooper8465]

Please can you tell me why is the government trying to cut down to ZERO carbon by 2030 . Do they not care about people who are carbon based or does it mean the government are going to get rid of everyone

[@darrenmeears3912]

Give all coppers a pushbike and save the taxpayers a fortune as for using rover they did try using the 800 but it was far to unreliable that's when they went over to volvo 👍🏻👍🏻

[@valicourt]

The Dutch police use Volvo estate cars. Spacious and fast enough for the job. No, British police not buying British cars did not kill the British car industry. The British car industry killed the British car industry. It’s common knowledge

[@angusnz7910]

So you can still sell them to the plebs but not the organisations that might sue you 😂 I think it’s clear what bmw think of their customers…but somehow I don’t think bmw is alone on that

[@smilly9]

The N57 engine was superseded by the B57 around 2015 onwards, funny these articles don’t mention the engine change, I doubt many forces have traffic cars pre 2015 probably long written off.

[@johnbewick6357]

Going by the number of crashes and accidents the Police have in ' our ' cars, I think they should use cars that are cheapest to repair. I could never understand the need is for such fast Police cars as BMW being used in rural areas, lets face it, when the sirens and lights are on, any average car will get to a accident scene as quickly, and cost far less to buy and maintain.

[@RB_750GS]

£7k for the BMW’s, only a few hundred quid more then the Astras.

[@johnbewick6357]

@@RB_750GS But a lot more expensive to maintain and repair.

[@RB_750GS]

@@johnbewick6357 nope, again everything is sold at a heavily discounted price.

[@Mr_Springy]

The European market competition rules meant that forces had to offer all manufacturers the option to bid to supply police vehicles. BMW offered the best package and their vehicles were better than the alternate comparable UK vehicles. (This assumes UK manufacturers bid for the business)

[@General_Cheeseburger]

I love 3.0 German diesels, I've had Merc, BMW and Audi. All fast, and economical. Specifically I had a 435D, it never missed a beat. I suppose the difference is I didn't need to rag it at 155 MPH every day.

[@jayc342009]

the issue mainly is how long these cars are idling for

[@golders99]

Rover by the mid 90's was shambolic sh*te. The build quality was so poor by then, no wonder the emergency services couldn't trust Rover cars.