Putting A Mid Drive & Hub Motor on my eBike was a Huge Mistake

[@OneCosmic749]

Isn't also your rear hub motor causing big resistance to the mid drive motor thus slowing you down when purely on mid drive? To my knowledge hub motors put bigger resistance the faster you go because of magnetic induction when they are not powered.

[@PaawnHuuub]

yes, this

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

there's geared hub motors with a clutch that reduces the drag to nothing, also the mid drive is just replicating pedaling.

[@OneCosmic749]

@@ayoutubewatcher7009 He has the direct drive one.

[@colincline7641]

It also just adds extra weight, which might have a significant effect on batter drain. For the difference in weight, one could just get a bigger battery but I guess two motors means more power.

[@yodab.at1746]

@@colincline7641 two motors share the load. Yes, you could overpower a single motor, but that risks overheating the motor. The amount of actual power is a function of the battery and controller, not the motor. The motor converts that power to rotational force. How efficiently it can do that is a function of how well the motor is matched to the battery and controller.

[@eliasshedd]

I think your new motor deserves it's own bike that is light enough to make trail riding adventurous. I had a ridiculously heavy pack (26 lbs) and once I traded it for a 6.5lb pack it was a COMPLETELY different experience. Well if your 2 motor bike dosen't work out, you can make a really good trail bike. You won't even need a second battery.

[@boediprasetya2850]

install front hub motor

[@itzwilza7189]

​@@boediprasetya2850there are some people that have done it and they go insanely quick

[@micahisawesome4843]

I had front and rear hub motors and mide drive, was really fun for a few seconds. Till th2 cyc ripped my rear hub apart.

[@technocrat7971]

You have the mid drive turning that heavy & draggy hub motor ? That will be slowing it down loads fit the original back wheel.

[@COOKINGWITHDOUG]

So your hub doesn't have pedal assist?? If not your hub is wack

[@ChainzCooper]

you'll notice a difference when get rid of all the weight from the hub motor. should attempt getting a normal back rim to try it out .

[@MartinSage]

Very good point.

[@Blox117]

he wont notice any difference at all. despite the BS surrounding them mid drives are pretty much equal to hubs

[@yodab.at1746]

The difference with my mid/hub drive combo is my hub is geared. It's also got a freewheel clutch so doesn't drag on the mid. They both operate from one throttle but the mid has its own on/off switch. The mid is really only used as an acceleration booster, my bike is in top gear nearly all the time which means when the mid is on, it pull at the same rate as the hub. If I'm in bottom gear, the mid will rev out before the hub is in its rev range. The bike has 20" wheels, so alot of torque for hills.

[@FelixKubin]

Show me can you the rear hub geared one? padavan question from.

[@yodab.at1746]

@@FelixKubin young Jedi, string a sentence together coherently that I can understand, and answer you I will try.

[@FelixKubin]

@@yodab.at1746 reading your description I am also wander what is a “clutch” in such a system.

[@yodab.at1746]

@@FelixKubin it's like a freewheel. The hub motor works like a freewheel as in the wheel can rotate without turning the motor.

[@ghoul114]

Do you experience a lot of ghost pedaling? It looks like a small chain ring. I’m looking into getting the new GEN three, but I also like to pedal I’m wondering how it will be with the pedal assist it doesn’t look like you can get a bigger chain ring. What are your thoughts?

[@CONSCIOUS_TALK_ENT.]

150 NM torque vs how much Hub motor torque? Mine is the wicked 100 NM torque Hub motor. 1,999$. That looks better then mine for way cheaper.

[@OPM6906]

I think you can fix it by toning down the power/current curves on the mid drive motor for lower settings at least. Better battery life too.

[@turbofan450]

Isn't there going to be high resistance to turning an unpowered rear hub direct drive motor? Having it still installed might be sapping your efficiency as the mid drive motor has to fight to turn the rear hub.

[@RockG.o.d]

I’m thinking about adding a mid drive just for pedal assist, then having a hub for cruising.

[@gabrielthompson4320]

I came for the dual motors but now I just want to know where did you find that magnificent seat

[@Thingamajigs]

150nm of torque. surely this tore apart your hub? cracked up the casing? is/was it a freewheel or cassette on the hub?

[@backyardr.c.channel4732]

i had a hub drive and now a bafang bbshd and to be honest the 750w geared hub drive was faster overall. the mid drive is like a bicycle with a motor helping where the hub motor is like a motorbike

[@playonkorg]

Same experience

[@ericMT]

That makes sense. It’s weird how many people are evangelists for mid drive and I understand the uphill torque is supposedly better but the minimal top speed increase doesn’t seem worth the upgrade. It does depend how good your hub motor is and the controller you are using. Mid drive may be better for people who pedal a lot and don’t like using the throttle.

[@Blox117]

@@ericMT because ppl read BS information on the internet and then think they are experts. mid drives are no different than hubs and often worse

[@thetechgenie7374]

@@Blox117 That kind of the experience I had with middrives. I have a higher end Bafang Ultra with a custom frame that was designed for it. Yes has more low end torque but not not good for speed or road use. I use my two other hub eBikes both custom built a one with a 8k hub motor and 100 amp controller on a 40Ah Panasonic Cells custom battery I built, on a enduro frame that can go 65 to 75 mph pretty much a motorcycle as beef up everything and other a ebikeling 1500w 35 amp controller with 20Ah Panasonic Cell custom battery I built, hub kit a hard tail frame that can go 40 mph. I actually use the 1500w mostly for my daily commute as goes fast enough and much lighter, so easy to bring out in back room at work. I got the the Bafang expecting it to be much better and found it to be not as good as the ebikeling kit to the point going to likely sell it next summer. Plus has chains even the good ones snap after 75 miles and the whole Derailer and gear set wear out quickly. The ebikeling have 1750 miles on it and not even a flat tire. My biggest problem with a mid drive is you wear out all the drive components quickly as was designed to handle that amount of torque and not just the chain. Yes mid drives it is easier to change tires as no different then a regular bike but that about it.

[@Blox117]

@@thetechgenie7374 i can imagine. hubs are silent too

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I have a Bafang G062 1000w rear hub going on my BBSHD fat bike soon, with a second 20ah battery. I realized with the 120mm fat BB, I'm able to fit 2 triangle batteries side by side, and I can still pedal and ride comfortably. About an inch of clearance between my crank arms and the 2 batteries. I feel like adding 25 pounds to the bike isn't a bad trade for an additional 20ah and a 1000w hub motor. At least for my bike and the way I ride. She was already a heavy girl with just 1 motor and battery. The two batteries are THICK, but the second battery doesn't stand out as much as I thought it would, especially when you're riding and they're between your legs.

[@lufknuht5960]

the benefit I can think of for having a mid-drive & a front hub motor is having a backup if your chain breaks. But i am dubious about using both motors at once & also about the need for torque arm & strong fork in front

[@brybb3775]

Question: A mid-drive motor will have it's own PAS so... can you re-use its PAS if you are adding a rear hub motor? Apart from rear-hub motors with an integrated PAS, I haven't found any forum post or article yet indicating how to use a rear hub motor for use with a mid-drive, if the rear hub motor needs a PAS

[@Akya2120]

I'm thinking about doing this but with a small front hub motor. That way I can get the best of both worlds, a little bit of regen from the hub off power, AWD a bicycle for getting up hills (just the front contributing a little bit would considerably help stability), use more of the hub motor for cruising at higher rpm where it's more efficient.

[@buffalomind6838]

I think the hub proved to be a better performer for your needs than a mid drive. Unless one is climbing steep hills all the time a mid drive is not superior over a hub that also doesn’t wear out the chain and all its components many times faster than a hub which is separate. You can always move uninterrupted if your chain either breaks, without having to immediately replace it, or ride around forever if you choose without any chain.

[@lufknuht5960]

How much does a chain cost? Maybe with a mid motor you just have a maintenance schedule to change chains.

[@Inmate533]

With you on the bike, how much would you say the whole system weighs? Any plans on running a front hub motor as well, to make it a triple motor system?

[@doktormerlin]

I highly recommend that you give the mid-drive more time. It takes quite some practice to get the gearing right but gearing is EVERYTHING in mid-drive. Gear down on every traffic light, gear up when you speed up and only go highest gear when you are also high-speed. From the other videos on your channel it seems that your area is quite hilly. Mid-drives should usually have a big advantage in hilly regions compared to hub-drives thanks to the gearing. So yeah, I would recommend going on some longer trips and trying out the gears. They really bring mid-drives to the next level

[@heathenshaunt681]

If you don't shift a mid drive properly it will chew the motor up too. And to the creator of the video trying to get both motors to align will be a nightmare unless you know how to make the cadence/torque sensors for both to work together which is not easy as I understand a front hub would be easier actually if you were to go that route but why add weight at the wheels when it is centered on your bottom bracket with the mid?

[@シーサイアベベテフェリー]

@@heathenshaunt681 I was thinking to add front hub to speed up my mid motor ebike. Any advice please?

[@heathenshaunt681]

@@シーサイアベベテフェリー if you are in a flat city a hub is ok but if you want speed and torque with all your gears or a new internal geared hub I would go mid

[@Charles-Darwin]

I think it would be kick ass if you could find a hub motor that is a bit weaker torque wise but higher rpms.... then do a little programming to have the mid kick in during low speed or like you said when pedaling, then that smaller hub motor take over only at high speeds - If I remember right these are the ideal situations for each motor type.

[@ambiorixcastillocina2730]

Don't they work together? Like i have two hub motors and I make them work together. 250 each and they kinda give similar amount of power.

[@eliasshedd]

What? Big mistake... ok you got me on that one. I'm fascinated with your approach on putting both motors on the same bike. If you can have them both running at the same time that could be a unique fascinating experiment to try. I can't imagine wanting that much acceleration. Besides your acceleration will almost certainly be limited by your battery. Unless your battery has no or little voltage drop even with a nearly 70 amp load.

[@seanryan4212]

Ok but what if you hit the throttle of the hub motor while using the mid drive, what kinda torque would that have uphill?

[@devildogcody]

another thing to consider....you are using the mid drive while the hub motor is still on......making the mid drive work to turn a significantly heavier wheel than it would otherwise. You will get better performance from it without the hub motor on. I still think using both would be cool...Hub for road, mid drive for trails etc....maybe install a splitter from the main battery line to feed both, with a switch to swap back and forth between the two motors at will/need.

[@EdStravagent]

Take off the hub motor

[@Coff33Grind3r]

@@EdStravagent 100% this

[@jessicarandall22]

Does a hub drive motor have a free wheel so you don’t have to pedal the whole time ??

[@scottleone9892]

You have a lot of unsprung weight on that rear suspension. That will definitely make your rear suspension feel sluggish and effect your off-roading experience. Do you still have the stock wheel?

[@NPLVentures]

I may test that in the future to see the true effect.

[@jaylawvlogs264]

I have a CYC x1 pro gen 2 With the BAC 2000. I have a mounted 52 V 80 amp 16 ah battery and a 72v 100 amp 20 ah backpack battery. Over the years, I’ve had hub drive motors. My son has the super 73 RX whatever it’s called. Other than losing the ability to utilize the gear ratios. I’ve found that hub drive motors drain the battery a lot quicker. Like you mentioned, and the loss of torque. I have another bike with the Bafang BBSHD. Set up. I believe it’s 2000 wants. at 52 V. The Bafang motor is a lot quieter. I would say it’s less adjustable. The CYC set up is a lot lighter more powerful than a Bafang. If I was going to attempt to run a mid drive along with a different brand hub drive, I would go with the Bafang. Personally, I haven’t had any issues with my CYC. It’s a small set up that puts out a lot of power for its size. Along with all those benefits, you have to keep eye temperature. When I run my 72 V battery after doing some small modifications. It can put out over 7000watts peak. That is a lot of power for such a small motor.

[@paullewis5988]

@Living Deliberately What made you choose the stealth mid-drive motor?

[@capolean2902]

hmm will a hub drive frame work with a bafang? saw an enduro frame i wanna build from

[@jonathanbyrd12]

See I have the BBSHD and I feel like the mid drive is not powerful enough for acceleration or going up the hill. It can barely go up a hill but my 2000 watt hub motor annihilates it it can pull me up any hill and acceleration is through the roof. In fact, you could like sit in my handlebars and it would like pop a wheelie. It's so powerful. I break spokes all the time is why I went to a mid drive but having both would be awesome. I just don't know how to hook up both. Is there like a splitter adapter?

[@lufknuht5960]

Are you comparing a break the law motor at 2000 W with a legal motor? Or are they both illegal for street?

[@ambiorixcastillocina2730]

Have you managed to make them work together?

[@bigrockauto]

How much does your dual motor bike weight???

[@budwhite9781]

I like that rear fender. Was that a front fender that you customized to work on the rear?

[@thedon2703]

How do you not go crazy over that high pitched noise? I would go with the bbshd

[@joelfiat147]

I did it, a two motor ebike. What i learned it's the 750w mid Gear stands out over the front 500w hub. About 85% of the time. Greets from Brazil.

[@joelfiat147]

Then i'll get it front motor Of

[@herbertmichaels2841]

Do u run both at same time or 1 motor

[@happytrails60]

Have you ever looked into the ecells bike 2 hub motors 750 watt 52 volts, duel motors duel battery’s duel suspension the bike is an unbelievable bike

[@MrDeceptacon88]

Im running a hub and mid also. Keep the mid in the bike as a backup motor anyway...was that your plan. Also are you using separate controllers for each motor?

[@SirQuacksalotthe1st]

How fast does your bike go using them both at the same time?

[@losbastardosmtb]

So even using both up hill two battery’s two throttles it’s no better wth?

[@twistedexistence3603]

I can't wait until the next video, when you put a hub motor, on the front! =)

[@MartinSage]

I want to see someone who’s an electrician figure out how to run all 3 together….front, rear and center. That would be one fast bike. Get a good front hydraulic brake!

[@DriverJ-N]

Gonna do this on my ripracer it has peak 1300 watts 25ah controller with 5:1 geared hub low drag freewheeling clutch… single gear but the hubmotor will be all the gearing I would need to help the middrive

[@JreUK]

Did u ever get the splitter?

[@williamsouthwick6117]

The problem with using a direct drive hub motor with a mid-drive is that the direct drive motor will act as magnetic braking when no power is applied. The best combo would be a mid-drive with a geared rear hub thus eliminating the magnetic braking.

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

I re watched the video. If you have the ASI 855, then it can output 2800 watts roughly. It should smoke the hub. I’ve heard they need to be tuned to your liking, since you have the stealth motor, it’s probably only tuned for 25 amps or so.

[@Blox117]

lol its not smoking the hub you clown

[@bobcatt2294]

The direct drive hub motor is constantly having resistance by the magnets therefore a drag. This may be part of why the mid drive is less efficient as it is being taxed by the direct drive hub resistance. Thumbs up.

[@lufknuht5960]

I suspect that NM torque ratings on mid-drive eBikes is torque in the lowest gear

[@playontreega7852]

Love watching you drive this in Jersey. What is the Watt limit in Jersey? Keep making these videos. Ausome!

[@NPLVentures]

No idea, lol

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

I'm not going for speed, 35 mph is my max. I do mostly off road riding and a little city riding. I've decided to go with the luna bbshd motor AND the grin GMAC rear geared motor kits. They'll be separate minimal (throttle only) systems. Torque and acceleration is what I want. I know anything more than 1500 watts through my drive train is asking for trouble, plus if it breaks your stuck miles away from home. With the 2 motors = over 250 nm of torque, at 52 volts and 2000-2500 watts, with confidence I'll make it back. I'll also use 1) 52v battery than can discharge up to 50 amps continuous w/ a 20-30 mile range. The cost without the battery will be close to 1500 dollars. this will be done in stages. just bought the mongoose ledge x2, for 550 bucks, Its platform is unmatched at that price. Only thing I plan on changing is the seat and the brakes to hydraulic. did I also mention there's minimal drag and regenerative braking on the hub if you want it. Hopefully i can keep the build under 2500, wish me luck, happy riding everyone.

[@Indictedheart]

Check out the 4000watt Cyc motor just released, or look into the ARCHON X1 2500watt from Watt Wagons, those are powerful, I have a LUNA X2 V2 Ludicrous and I love it, but the battery gets used fast, & it heats up fast when trying to use full power. But for offroad it's perfect, on the road if I could afford it, prob by watt wagons hydra, or HPC Revolution.

[@LaOwlett]

The problem is batteries - inherently. Batteries are bad at taking in and dumping large amounts or energy quickly. Hitting the accelerator hard will slowly damage your battery. Ebike manufacturers need to take advantage of super capacitors. I believe Tesla uses them for acceleration boosts to avoid strain on batteries. The boost capacitors should be big enough to deliver the power needed to go from 0 to full speed as quickly as safely possible. A combo is the perfect solution to have both torque and speed. The mid drive is less efficient than the hub. The hub is good at maintaining high speed with very little power. The mid drive is good at delivering better power, but uses more energy to maintain speed. If you could coordinate them such that the mid drive doesn't kick in until the current draw (acceleration) coming from the rear hub becomes too high.

[@warlockboyburns]

the mid-drive has to deal with the drag of the rear hub motor which hinders the torque. You would need a geared hub motor to not have any drag.

[@gmeister03]

It makes sense you’d use more energy wirh the the mid drive. You have two points of inefficiency.

[@dust6242]

I have the NB Power 3k 72v that is scary fast! Rolling wheelies and a top speed somewhere over 60... I don't have the brass balls to go any faster. Be safe and have fun!

[@androsmilenionful]

Some speed test will be great,I'm planning to buy the cyc motor for my ariel rider x52

[@Indictedheart]

It May of worked out if you had put hub drive on the front and mid-drive to drive rear.

[@JSadeiu]

Thanks for posting your results. I wonder how much drag the hub wheel gives besides the weight of the motor, itself.

[@NPLVentures]

not much at all, the bike rolls pretty smoothly

[@Blox117]

@@NPLVentures the problem is you are replacing one motor with a similarly powered motor and expecting a difference. the only difference you will see is if you use both of them

[@d.s.5807]

To utilize both motors at the same time with the same battery, All you need to do is buy a 3 pronged levered electrical connector. The power then will be available to both motors. These are available at any hardware store. Or just tie them together with wire nuts.

[@NijiflianBustock]

Have you considered trying that cyc motor with an igh instead of a hub motor? I have a cyc set up myself and found that if you are on the road you'll want to be using the mid drive at around 1/2 the rpm it's actually capable of for the best efficiency on the road. It takes a few hundred watts just to spin the mid drive at max rpm so keeping it wound all the way out is less efficient.

[@NPLVentures]

Yes, I may test it out in the future. It will be hard to say goodbye to my hub motor though

[@devildogcody]

@@NPLVentures as another said...build out a second bike, one hub, one mid...then you could really do a comparison between the two to decide which you really like better. Then you keep the one you like, sell the other one.

[@JoLe1991]

your 2000W hub motor adds a lot of drag when not running. That means the cyc is wasting power to make the wheel turn. Also, a hub motor labeled with 2000W probably has a peak power uptake of 2500-3000W. Check the controller amperage, multiply by voltage and you'll know. the CYC stealth has a 30A controller probably. if you want to compare both systems, you need to use the cyc with a regular wheel with a strong freehub mechanism such as a 54t dt swiss ratchet and a wide range cassette (11-46 or 11-50). also remember, the cyc stealth unleashes its full potential at a crazy high cadence at which you cannot follow up with your legs. so look at it more like an electric motocross with a bunch of gears. pedaling cadence stops at around 120rpm for your legs, that is if you're really fast. The maximum power you can put through a bicycle chain at that cadence is in the range of 1000W, possibly 1500W. If you want more power, you need to crank up the rpm, keeping torque the same. That's why the high power mid drives have very high cadence (BBSHD, CYC X1 Pro, Cyclone). Also, when it comes to hill climbing, you can sneak in more power by spinning faster, but in the end, the freehub mechanism takes all the beating (actual newtons) required to climb a hill at a certain speed. pawl hubs can really bust into pieces when running in full power on the largest cog (40+ teeth) up a steep slope. star ratchets have a lot more contact points, but in the end they're bicycle components and will eventually break under serious load

[@spirobel]

I think the problem is the transmission. There needs to be a more stiff connection similar to like a motorbike works. I think having the weight of a bicycle combined with the transmission of a motorbike (motorbike chain instead of bicycle chain) and a 3000 watt mid drive will be perfect.

[@buffalomind6838]

That is my apprehension in buying a mid drive over a geared, or direct drive hub motor. I believe until a bike is properly equipped to handle the force a mid drive puts on a regular bicycle chain it is not optimal to put a mid drive on a relatively weak bicycle chain.

[@spirobel]

@@buffalomind6838 Do you think the chain is the main problem? it seems like the most urgent problem is that bicycle chains are too loose ( for switching the gears). That is the core problem that needs to be fixed. Would you agree?

[@buffalomind6838]

@@spirobel Have you seen the Biktrix Juggernaut XD bike with its go kart chain? That sort of chain would be appropriate in my opinion for a motor attached to ones drive train.

[@spirobel]

@@buffalomind6838 wow this is exactly what I had in mind. I saw a 3000 watt motor like this on aliexpress with the sprockets, gokart chain and controller included.

[@buffalomind6838]

@@spirobel Thanks! I’ll go check it out. I really do not want to be worried in utilizing the mid drive if I have to change out things every few months.

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

L.D. , as you know I just had the ledge x2 delivered and I’m currently debating on what to do. Now, I did the exact same thing you are going through. I have a hard tail with a 1500 watt hub motor and added the Luna bbshd with the off road option. Separate battery, throttle controller etc. its the perfect acceleration and torque for off road ripping if both are used. If the weight doesn’t bother you then it’s the best of both worlds. What torque arms are you using? Do you think the ledge can handle a 3000 watt hub motor 6t winding = over 150nm of torque with 72 volts.

[@NPLVentures]

you will need a solid torque on both sides. I just picked up the “Grin Technologies FRONT Torque Arm for Mounting on Forks with Fender Eyelets” on amazon and it gives me a lot of confidence. it’s expensive but actually transfers torque well

[@boediprasetya2850]

please install front hub motor

[@ajbax96]

Your mid drive motor isn't going to be as efficient as it could be since you have the hub motor installed too. The hub motor is going to add weight and resistance.

[@NPLVentures]

True it weighs about 15 pounds. There is next to no rolling resistance though

[@roshyoung4694]

@@NPLVentures you would think so but there is.

[@bonzobanana1]

Now it just needs a front hub motor and perhaps a trailer with a petrol generator to power everything.

[@digitalsuperdaddy]

LMFAO

[@micahisawesome4843]

I put a cyc gen 4 pro mid drive on my dual hub 2000w fat ebike. It tore the side plate of my rear hub motor. All the torque goes right to the thin cover. Now I'm trying to find a machine shop to make me a new side out of a stronger metal. So far no luck. Bikes been down for 2 weeks, I don't want to remove the hub and put a regular rear tire on. Cyc will not respond to me. I guess once they get their money , they don't care anymore.

[@happyjohnrn]

Can you run them both at the same time? Bet that would have some hill climbing power

[@doktormerlin]

I dont think that would work. The battery looses voltage when you draw power, which reduces torque in the motor. So if you draw double the amps, you loose a lot of torque or the battery will even cut off completely.

[@backyardr.c.channel4732]

What are you going to do fix the hub motor or keep it mid drive?

[@NPLVentures]

going to try and use both, waiting on some gear to arrive.

[@eliasshedd]

So earlier when I recommended that you make an additional bike that is just for mountain biking using your mid-drive motor. I didn't know that your current bike was your primary means of transportation. Somai model of mountain biking is put my mountain bike in my trunk and drive to where I want a mountain bike. But if you don't have a car to haul your bike then you'll need a pretty large battery pack and more spare parts and tools to go mountain biking to make sure you can get back. Munch at my mountain biking is within a few miles of my car. If I broke down I'm still in the same park and I can make it on foot back to my car. Your heavy do a motorbike should be good for all trail riding. You should be able to do everything but jumps and extreme rocks.

[@pauljogever3282]

Must be carrying some weight with that setup. I have X1 Stealth on a Giant Reign 0 from 2009. Comes in at 20KG with battery. Its a fantastic bike on most trails, just don't see the point of hub and mid drive. With mid drive you are actually using the bikes gears so increasing efficiency.

[@chrisregister8021]

I can't wait to put one on my bike....

[@reifox9296]

Use front and rear hub motors... Though you would be using 2 thumb throttles .. on the flip side you can just use both if you want boost in speed and torque.. just becareful on braking

[@legna199111]

If you use a bac 855 on both motors you could also then use one throttle for both as well as second throttle for regen. You'd be able to program the 2 maximize the low speed torque and increase your overall top speed granted you would barely be able to keep the front wheel down!

[@lm2906]

If you use only the mid drive motor with the hub motor off, it is obvious that it will be more dificult to pedal because of the weight of hub motor.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

I'd like to see the original wheel back. The hub motor is just useless weight now. The mid-drive will go as fast or faster and climb steeper hills more easily (assuming the right gearing). A 750 watt BBS02 can do more climbing than your hub with only a slight sacrifice in top speed so your CYC should just make your hub motor obsolete.

[@blegend6538]

The hub moter is useless weight it would be better if he only use the middrive to test it

[@Blox117]

a 750 watt mid drive is pure garbage and would get beat down by a hub

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@Blox117 Not by any 750 watt hub. At matching power levels mid beats hub every day of the week & twice on Sundays.

[@devildogcody]

if you were using a 35 amp controller like my kit came with, your peak wattage on the hub is closer to 3000 watts on full battery.....doing the math, at 84 volts peak wattage is 2,856 watts

[@devildogcody]

also, on the sw-900 display, you can go into settings, there is one in there for pedal assist sensitivity....range is 1-24, 1 is default...doesn't feel like pedaling at all...24 is most sensative...gives you more pedal input before motor takes over

[@racerx2095]

I would have thought it would be better sorry to hear it's really not.I hope it works out for you.

[@lufknuht5960]

I think that there is deception in advertising mid-motor ebikes because the higher torque is not the torque of the motor (as if tested off bike or detached from chain), but the resulting torque obtained when the mid-motor drives through the lowest gear. So the high torque is obtained at the expense of speed. There has to be some power loss through the chain & gear with the mid-motor. Am I wrong? But it seems to me that if you want 2 motors, mid-motor & hub motor, the hub motor should be on the front wheel. I suppose that there is the technology to run these 2 motors at the same time without one putting a drag on the other. Until somebody educates me better, I am going to prefer that the gear system on an eBike be a 3 speed internal hub system instead of derailer. I note that there are such 3speed bikes, even with Sturmey-Archer gears. I intend to look & see if anybody has made an eBike out of newer 8 internal gear bikes.

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

This is why my wife says I need a different hobbie. It is not cheap building these bikes.

[@NPLVentures]

true, but it is almost worth it

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

Indeed

[@luigiprovencher]

Why would you do that? I would think that you'd want a front hub drive motor and a mid drive motor if you were going to want to a dual motor Ebike. Unless of course you wanted to do dual hub drives.

[@hawaiian1937]

Why are you testing 2 motors with them on the same bike when testing? Your direct drive hib mortor has considerable drag thats not noticeable till you pick up speed... this is how they work and why you can do regenerative braking. To test a mid drive with your old motor on not only I increased the load on the motor spinning that heavy wheel and also makes the bike heavier and the increased drag at high speeds will be more than you thing and also not great for the dd hub if natural current generation gets to high.. honestly kinda a bad review of you not understanding how the systems work. Mid drives are better in every way accept complexity and wear on drivetrain. Tbh unless you want a maintenance free bike then go mid drive.. this is comming from someone who rides a 1500watt dd front hub from grin tech. I chose dd because it is better at high speed sustained runs but when trying to power up and down rpm wise on the wheel the mid drive is the champ. Depends on what you want but tbh you tested it very wrong..

[@john7643]

1 bigger motor instead of 2 ! look up 'lightning rods" for a nice mid drive set up

[@christiansenra2480]

congrats on more than 1000 subscribers buy another battery for both to work or buy a wire splitter

[@NPLVentures]

Thanks, I got a splitter on its way

[@williamnunez9609]

Wish your setup had been more efficient, front hub motor with mid drive more practical, especially when activating both, comparing two rears should have been done on 2 separate bicycles do to variables and having to be a little more active in gear shifting with mid drive. your bicycle so populated with electronics all you need now is a flux capacitor "doc".

[@marthamryglod291]

I'll buy your used mid drive setup

[@britkasablja007]

Put Geared hub instead direct drive HUb on rear... Geared hub does not have resistance like direct drive... you will get much better mid drive performance

[@kevinduprey9326]

Why buy 2 motors and use 1 at time?… obviously the other will slow it down… others have done this and had significant torque increase using both motors dialed in sep.. The advantage of this over dual hubs is lighter steering.

[@jamesmetcalf6591]

We have the same gloves and seat :)

[@cerebralpalsybiker7571]

I tell you why I'm not an expert but I did go to school for auto mechanics here's the little trick that they do with the mid drives they'll say like for instance this mid drive motor has 90 newton meters of torque crank torque but a direct drive motor that's the wheel torque so that's the actual foot pounds of torque mid drive is usually crank torque it's like if you look at a car and it says has 350 horse power crank but if you look at another one and it says 350 horsepower and then 250 foot pounds of torque to the wheel then you know that's why I like direct drives. Sorry for the long comment but that's what I would look out for is what it says for wheel torque and crank torque

[@deangottschall548]

Bikes are much different than automotive applications because there is so much less power lost on a simple chain drive compared to the car's complex transmissions and reduction gears. So on a bike the torque is listed at the motor.

[@cerebralpalsybiker7571]

@@deangottschall548 yeah but where direct drive motors on what the rim of the tire so that's exactly the foot pounds of torque you're going to get it says 35 new meters of torque like mine does that's what I'm getting at. look at it most of them will say crank on mid drive not wheel NM of trouqe to the wheel. bicycle is the most efficient vehicle ever made you are still losing some energy from the motor through the chain to the wheel look at motorcycles and you'll see what I'm talking about if you look at a chain driven motorcycle to a shift driven of a motorcycle or even a belt drive motorcycle and you will see the difference of the torque chain on a motorcycle gives you more horsepower but not more torque a shaft driven motorcycle will give you more torque but you will lose speed the same as with the belt on the Harley-Davidsons. Cuz motorcycles that have sprockets you can change them and most of them are like bicycles they put either a smaller or bigger sprocket for the back or smaller to make it go faster with shaft in belt driven motorcycles it's fixed and that's my point the mid drives are fixed you got the sprocket in the back on a bicycle but you also got to sprocket on the back of a direct drive but you also have gears in mid drives and them gears only racial to a certain degree direct drives a racial for a higher speeds mid-drives though are more efficient but they're not faster that's just a fact if you look at Grand technology if you look at Stromer they all use direct drive motors for speed you'll have to take my word go on KZbin look up grin technology that guy is like Elon musk of ebikes

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

@@deangottschall548 not the Chinese motors. If it says 100nm it’s probably 60-80

[@Zaekmusic]

BRUH. You put your mid drive on the same battery as your rear motor, am I wrong? If you want more power/torque out of this dual motor set up, I’m almost 100% positive you need to run two separate batteries.

[@mjcadr]

so your dragging the hub motor along for the drive with the mid drive, suggest remove hub motor and then test your mid drive. for honest test

[@verocimil]

Ignoring the fact that the MD had to overcome the magnetic force of the inoperative DD hub motor that was causing even more drag, the faster the MD was moving the bike forward, it will always under corresponding conditions come down to the following scenario: Level routes and soft hills on the road up to 10% - 15% of climbing, depending on the system weight (cyclist weight + bike weight + everything else being carried on the bike), the fitness and the eagerness of the cyclist = Hub Motor Offroad and/or steep climbs over 15% = Mid Drive

[@TopperPenquin]

You've beaten Elon Musk to Mars🙋

[@TopperPenquin]

You've achieved a new outright land speed record🙋

[@TopperPenquin]

Next week you'll be featured on The Joe Rogan experience claiming that they (👽ii) are Gassing your tank with BroMide🙋

[@TopperPenquin]

That is if you could remember who The Californian Governor was Arnold Schwarzenegger?? 🤣😂🤣

[@TopperPenquin]

😘🫏🐕 Has Arnold ever been on the 👐Joe Rogan👐 experience?? 🤷

[@jackreacher1963]

You made the mistake of going with the stealth should of went with bac 855 Gen pro 1 5000 watts 250 nt it's a wheelie machine after that.

[@Hitech82]

Have you thought about a front wheel drive too? Front wheel. Mid drive. Rear motor ebike

[@scottrocks1993]

You have a direct drive hub motor 😅lol. You get full resistance from that motor. You can't ride pedal like a normal bike without power. Connecting a mid drive system to that. Will be like pulling with someone on the back. If you going to put a hub motor on the back. You need a geared hub motor with internal freewheel. So it can spend with no resistance. The only reason to have a direct drive hub motor. Is to charge the battery when riding and Regen breaking extra stopping power. But like I said you will feel resistance all the time. From that motor

[@ericMT]

It will be much faster if you either put your stock rear wheel back on or connect a splitter and use both motors. I have an older 48v Super73 with a 1000w motor and it flies over off-road terrain at 20mph no problem with throttle only. There’s more to an electric bike than just the motor and battery specs.

[@FlyingFun.]

You either need to lose the hub motor or put a geared onion there which will offer zero resistance at speed. I'd just lose the hub motor personally. However I have both systems and I can tell you the hub motor is perfectly fine 99% of the time. The mid drive comes into it's own when going seriously off road with steep hills that the hub cant cope well with, the hub drive in a low gear just eat it all up with ease... But those situations are more something I go looking for just for fun and for the challenge, all the same routes have an easier path to take that hub does fine.

[@arond331]

not sure if this is ridiculous or just stupid, do you know anything about physics? how can you even call this testing? that mid motor needs has heavy additional work running that hub, then other obvious thing, you are running that heavy hub on your back wheel, you do not gain anything for using mid drive since your wheel is still heavy, also, you are testing it on terrain that suits best hub motors, so all in all this is does not make any sense

[@davidbaird3560]

hub motor in the front would be much better