NRE Dominator Secrets! explained! Double Dominator 1442 HP Nitrous 632 BBC.

Wow this is crazy. You have never have seen a tune up like this. Tom and his friend Steve tame this beast! The dual Dominator is famously difficult to be taught good street manners. Go beside Tom and Steve and see how it was done.
This is NRE TV episode 262.
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[@skullofserpent5727]

ENGINE MASTERS, NRE EDITION!

[@laser69beam]

Brule, Nelson, Freuburger and Dulcic walk into a dyno room... ;)

[@unsaved013]

why can't i hold all this HP?

[@lolbr3720]

big fan of NRE & EM. Honest, reliable info. Hell, u guys r the Walter Cronkite of drag racing

[@davevangemert2946]

More videos tom, please. I got them all memorized. Get toether with brule and roadkill guys and put a twin turbo 632 tt bbc n drop it in a pro street chevette with just enough room between the mickey Thompson's for a driveshaft and drop it off at a 1320' track with a 6 speed and have cleetus race it! Then i can die! Thats my fantasy video!!!

[@Adamas_83]

I love watching Steve work his magic, truly an amazing guy with more engine knowledge than any 10 normal car guys.

[@lolbr3720]

Steve rocks. Seeing this a yr. laiter reminds me what an elegant gentle man, who is willing to share this priceless info with everyone. A man amongst men...

[@taxedtodeath3610]

Was the dogs crapping in the background while saying "Sorry for the weird rouge video here" at the 5:57 mark done purposely? That is hilarious, the timing was spot on!!

[@RamblinAround]

This was really interesting stuff. I'm really surprised there was such a discrepancy between cylinders. Great video!

[@richardprice5978]

RamblinAround I wasn't but I was on the power difference wonder what it does to efficiency like mpg or hp/ci and how long it can go before it needs a rebuild

[@KevAlberta]

I always knew cylinder 1 on my 3cyl kicked the hardest 😉

[@davelowets]

Always is....

[@mmciau]

Absolutely fascinating video. To see the care and knowledge applied by the carburettor specialist and yourself shows why you are a top craftsmen. You won't take "maybe" for an answer. You want definitive results. Well done.

[@MassageWithKlay]

it's really refreshing actually seeing an engine going through it's teething issues and watching Steve actually going through all the workings in order to get the engine working as it should be. So much better than the typical .. lets just show off the big numbers and that's it.

[@dano4572]

Steve and Nelson, leave it to these two guys and they'll take over the world!!

[@4406bbldb]

This stuff tickles me. In 69 we started delelopment of this Carb as a block of aluminum. Glad to see Wiston cup parts are still making huge power.

[@davelowets]

Winston cup is long gone, man.... And now they're all E.F.I., NO carbs anymore.

[@alexmatthews2332]

That was pretty awesome to see and hear explained id take more like this any day!

[@myjizzureye]

The problem is a change in one jet can effect another. Obviously old mate knows what he is doing but its not unlike tuning a floyd rose bridge.

[@mclarpet]

Great to see my two favorite engine guys together on a project. The tuning potential in the Dominators is amazing, an inspiring video.

[@davelowets]

An upper end 4150 has exactly the same tuning potential..

[@davidcraft4909]

That is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. That engine looks amazing

[@geerbangr]

Probably one of the best videos on u toob!!

[@Not_Sure_81]

A tuning master he is. If I ever pull the motor out of my chevelle I would definitely take it to westech. Side note... I have about 12 grand in my sbc and I'm at 615hp off the bottle. I can't imagine spending 40 grand for something like this. Beautiful piece though

[@TheSteve1175]

Thanks Tom, was amazing to see the variations in the jets,,be safe...

[@TrojanHorse1959]

I could watch and listen to Tom Nelson & Steve Brule' for hours! Unless you're an engine imbecile, you will always learn something. Thanks for sharing Tom & Steve!

[@bigredracer7848]

Thanks for taking the time for us

[@bigredracer7848]

Thanks NRE for the great video upload and thanks for taking the time for us

[@joshlewis5065]

Just the intake and carbs is the size of a Honda four-banger

[@richardboyk3493]

One thing that really surprised me is that they were running a Power Valve in the Primaries and not the Secondaries. Tom mentions it very briefly towards the end of the Video. You can see the PV plug in the Secondary metering blocks at around 5.25. That just doesn't make sense. So the complete right bank has a Power Valve circuit and the left bank doesn't. Might be OK at WOT on a Drag motor I guess. But if this was run on the street it's going to cause part throttle discrepancies. No wonder the fuel trims were all over the place. Also makes a tuning nightmare as carbs are sideways mount. Can't believe they did that. Might have been for a " dramatic " demonstration , but Tom should have made it clearer in the Video that Primaries and Secondaries were Metering blocks were not set-up the same. If both the Primary and Secondary Metering blocks had Power Valves, from the start, the jetting changes would not have been nearly so extreme. Shenanigans !!!

[@kwasg3]

Ya, I wish there was a way invented to actually meter fuel flow into each individual port on a motor....

[@howabouthetruth2157]

You make all those claims "on paper"........but you just witnessed with your own eyes how these MASTERS made this beast much more manageable. Besides, where's all of YOUR work? We can bet the farm you've never even built a motor that remotely resembles this beast. Talk is cheap man. Some nobody coming on here trying to tell A MASTER PERFORMANCE ENGINE DESIGNER AND A TUNING MASTER "what they're doing wrong". That's hilarious at best.

[@rayjay6769]

Wrong!

[@MrRyan62583]

Love Nelson videos. Not like other videos. This is our cam our head "package" ok here is a dyno pull. Very informational stuff to learn from!

[@barath4545]

Totally agree. Not only that but the passion Tom speaks with. Liked his LS video on the /Drive very much too.

[@TrojanHorse1959]

Yes, Tom takes the time to really talk to his subscribers and customers, carefully explaining along the way so it's relatively easy to understand if you know anything at all about engines. AND, he builds Bitchin' engines and cars!

[@JC-11111]

MrRyan62583 Ack he has to do something to sell the Nelson name. Claiming they're race engines obviously isn't enough. Notice the real premium race engine builders don't make this kind of bullshit. They let the CHAMPIONSHIPS speak for themselves. How many NRE customers even race? 99% of what you see goes in car show-type burnout machines.... Exactly what he posts in every single video. They should be call Nelson burnout engines. People that race don't buy engines from this place. Ever wonder why?

[@JC-11111]

When's the last time yousaw Reher Morrison make this kind of shit? Pat Musi? Bob Book? Proline? Oh ok. I didn't think so.

[@barath4545]

Maybe people that don't race, buy engines there? ... NRE is not a pro-mod only shop for Sharia sheiks. Seen a lot of street cars come out with NRE engines. Some Bonneville, some half-mile etc.But really, you diss these videos for being edutainment? ... Thousands of people have learnt a lot from NRE videos over the years, where as noone has learned a thing from Musi, Proline and so on. Sonny is the only one that at least tried to be open about what they do.

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

Bingo @6.15, it is staggering to comprehend how equal internal area/volume are receiving different fill. Chaos in the plenum would for sure be the appropriate term. Reversion, Firing Order, core plenum absorption toward the center vs. walls at the front and back of said plenum would in part be a contributor. 127&8 must cross over the active turbulence of 345&6. Lot going on in there, a computer simulation slowed down based on firing order and reversion pulses would take some of the head banging out of the picture. Wow!!! cool stuff. This video is sure to get viewers thinking! No doubt Header back-pressures play a part in the chaos too, could try controling back pressures with tube inserts before the collector to tune. Then you could have tuned it with air bleeds to a point of the jetting being square x 2 then square jetting up and down a step or two would be on the table... maybe? All one big Science. Really enjoyed this one, 5 Stars... Ouch, only took me 4 years to run across this video. Power-valves? no good, freak.

[@jfv65]

motorcycle tuners do very similar things on multi cylinder multi carbed bikes. very interesting to see how much gains can be had just by optimising each cylinder. This would almost be impossible to do as an amateur doing a street tuneup.

[@dp4racing]

A great video. Amazing what goes on inside that plenum.

[@finnroen2334]

Thank you Nelson. Got to love the 8 lambda sensor read out. With the budgets you guys have, I do not understand why you do not test with Mikuni HSR carburetors activated by a drive by wire motor. Variable size venturis you know.

[@MrHuntertaylor]

I absolutely loved this Mr. Tom, I wonder how long it will be until the auto manufacturers have to implement an 02 for each cylinder.... I wanna end this by saying your an absolute legend, and I consider you my idol in my idea of working towards owning my own business.

[@ShainAndrews]

With individual injectors probably not a lot of gain to monitor each cylinder from an OEM perspective.

[@rayjay6769]

I don't think they have that problem on individual Direct port injection. Should be an equal amount of fuel in each cylinder! But maybe there would be a bleed over from reversion from the runner into the manifold that could influence differences in cylinders? I don't know. Maybe somebody with knowledge of this could elaborate.

[@darrenparkinson4576]

It's mainly caused by the exhaust system which is compromised by the firing order.

[@darrenparkinson4576]

The variation is caused by the firing order and the header pulses on overlap.

[@TPVPRO]

Be cool to see the same on a single plane intake with a 4150

[@kevins5833]

Very interesting stuff, amazing how each hole requires It's own specific ratio...

[@BillyN31]

Omg. That’s my dream engine!! Amazing!

[@60andcuriousrobson13]

I saw a fuel system on a big block Chevy, 454CI. with individual stacks that had different lengths for each cylinder, Hildebrand fuel injection? I saw a magazine article, decades ago which had an interesting photo of the air above a carburetor on a running engine; it showed a "fog" of gasoline mist, and part of the commentary was an explanation of backflow from the cylinders into the plenum that drew fuel on the way out as well as the initial airflow in. I think the article was written by a fan of Weber carbs. For an engine such as this, what could you do with a flat plane crank and a cross-ram manifold, essentially two separate four cylinders joined at the crank? The biggest benefit for the flat plane crank is the 180 degrees between pressure wave pulses. Another approach is to use different length runners for a cross plane crank, such that pulses would reach the plenum at the same time after each valve opened, perhaps with individual runners of the same volume. I ask because some of the recent cast exhaust manifolds with mostly different length runners work almost as well as equal-length headers. I understand, from reading and watching videos, that the mid to long tube equal length headers work better.

[@gordowg1wg145]

Because the big block head's intake ports weren't symetrical, two ports were longer, and had more volume, than the other two - the different length stacks were to compensate for that by putting longer stacks on the short ports. Check out "reversion", it will explain it for you. It would be 'possible' but it would in turn introduce other problems, such as excessive centre bearing loadings and possible harmonics - IMO the most likely reason for using a flat plane would be to gain equal exhaust pulses, but "H" design headers can provide that and, IIRC, the gains are very minor, anyway, unless chasing the last percent or two. A properly sized header will still provide the best performance, but, as you say, a good cast, or unequal length header, can come close - Note! a badly sized, or designed, exhaust header can cost significant power/torque! Many, many years back one of the magazines did a test of, IIRC, 5 fenderwell headers of different diameters and lengths for a 500hp 350 in a '57 - there was a 50 hp difference between the best and worst - bigger isn't always better!

[@stephenalexander2427]

Coolest video I’ve ever seen I always wondered how a carburetor got perfect air fuel in each cylinder!

[@finbilly]

Very interesting video to watch. I am wondering does adding an air filter affect the ratios much? I presume it restricts the incoming airflow slightly but what about after the carb?

[@Smokin07ram]

Mad respect for Steve and Tom...Great engine builders! I was dying to find out how the mixtures reacted to a simple 200 shot or so! There is no way adding another 200+hp worth of fuel doesn't reduce and change the pull on the boosters. Ah well...some day I will build another carbed engine...OK...Probably not :)

[@patw52pb1]

The influence on the base AFR would be negligible. However, the per cylinder N2O and supplemental fuel would likely also require the same attention to detail and tuning.

[@maldo72]

How come we dont see alot of videos anymore last one u loaded was 4 months ago?

[@gordowg1wg145]

Makes sense, when you think about it - the end venturies have one close, three a bit further away and the rest having little draw, but the centre four not only have the runner right under them, but have 5 close and the others further away, so the jets will have to account for the different airflow - oh, and the firing order variances. Still, rather bigger difference than I think anyone might have expected and a very good lesson on the importance of checking and optimising - could be the reason for some folks torching pistons, comes to that, if some cylinders were running lean enough.

[@gordowg1wg145]

Just reviewing this, after looking it up to refer to others, and just noticed how much the AFR changes around the cylinders as the rpm alters - some increased by over 1 ratio and other dropped - sometimes altering both ways with rpm. That should be one of the big advantages of EFI as it would allow all these transitory changes to be mapped out, rather than compromising for best overall.

[@aianscott3390]

jus curious. how did that 4 over-head cam ls turn out?

[@stevenshepherd3875]

Interesting how the five seven firing order effects the air flow in a common plenum.

[@stephenmitchell3569]

Awesome information thank you! Something to work with always giving us good facts.

[@drlouierocco]

Dr. Steven Brule!

[@gothicpagan.666]

Josh Redlinger Legend in his own life time. And that's in the UK

[@G5Hohn]

This is the best ad for EFI I've ever seen. Pity the guy tuning a carb setup without individual O2s.

[@gygle36]

ever try a heads up between a 540 chevy against a 545 ford, maybe shooting for 1k hp?

[@dm-hg1tf]

very cool. did you guys change any air bleeds?

[@grant2410]

Carburtooters are voodoo magic, really cool video Tom

[@flinch622]

Dyno gold, and glad I watched. Variances in scavenging, pulse interval & plenum turbulence playing tricks on apparent booster signal during the time cylinders need filling, despite meticulous attention to detail ahead of testing. I wonder what altitude does to this tune...

[@bfrbradleyfamilyracing7139]

What is the target air/fuel mixture on the O2 sensors? I see a range from 12 to 13 ish range at wot.

[@fir3gun]

that's the sweet spot

[@AutomotiveZar]

Thats a lot of work considering as soon as the out side air temp and barometric pressure change you will have to re-jet alllll all over again

[@stevesolo16]

LAMBDA tuning is theee best way to tune each cylinder for a optimum power. With a street engine the volumetric efficiency is .85 A race engine is 1.1 LAMBDA TUNING is best done with a tunnel ram. Cheers! Beautiful engine!

[@grant2410]

Where have you gone mr. Nelson. Need my NRE fix

[@4406bbldb]

When i see a Dominator carb. I like to mention that i started doing development work with this system before it existed. I loved my research and development job at Chrysler.

[@j.e.d.8065]

Ford had Holley build the dominator carburetor for nascar.

[@overnovacated6481]

13:1 On the street hell yeah!

[@omidsadjadi8798]

Goes to show you the difference in jetting on tunnel rams. Square jetting more times than most seemed just right on my single dominator big inch bbc motors. Would be cool to see how a properly set up sv1 on a good manifold would compare. Still impressive #s for a somewhat moderate compression motor!

[@MrBenescarment]

you guys are amazing with engines👍🏿✌️

[@johnhazel5925]

Steve and Tom, what is the response time of the O2 sensor? Could a fast computer use the O2 sensor and individually control fuel injectors to always maintain the correct A/F ratio on a street driven car? The fuel injection theoretically should be perfectly even but the airflow is going to be different on all the twists and turns the air needs to navigate.

[@Nedsped0]

Ive never seen this done before, damn son! Awsome!

[@stephenmitchell3569]

Awesome lesson O2 sensors well to AutoZone I go for some hillbilly hotrod work and see what's happening!!! Thank You best two videos in one.

[@bixby7036]

Great vid Tom!! That's a trip!

[@davelowets]

Hmm, Brulio, the "carb whisperer" at the controls of the dyno, and tuning. I was surprised to see that.

[@skiingspike]

just curious after seeing the difference between the cylinders is there any thing that you can do with the engineering to compinsate in the engine design to even the pull on the pistons?

[@sf_bay_area_og4411]

That shit is so BAD ASS !!! I never would have thought

[@Scofflaw_k10]

How do you feel about split Dominator setups on a "street" setup like this?

[@adamtheninjasmith2985]

Two of my heroes together. I'm glad I found this video. I dream of a pure street legal no power adder carbureted dot tire pump gas drive it to the track and run a 7 go home whatever... Literally don't care what it is really other than ridiculous reliable na power! Is it too much to ask for other than I can't afford it? Lol

[@overnovacated6481]

Fucking SIC! BRUL'E is a tuning GOD I SCREEN SHOT the jet sheet that Steve handwrote cause I'm doing a 10.4 as well with Gen3 1050 DOMINATORs on a dart tunnel ram. Tom, if I were in that dyno room with you two Wizards I 'AM NOT WORTHY'

[@annesadosky9856]

Steve is one of the best top turners in the US if not on the globe

[@overnovacated6481]

Where the jets pulled from the secondaries only? Thanks

[@michaellanglie5502]

crazy, who would have thought the swing between #3 and #4 would be that broad ? So does nitrous change those numbers ?

[@jasonjohnson3133]

What size was the cam in this one.. ? Approximately?

[@daphnemiller4301]

The question I have for you sir,is will it fit in a 1979 Corvette L82? Let me and how much thanks?

[@NitroGuyJH]

I don’t know but I’m curious if those O2 sensors are perfectly matched? Or maybe some other variable, too damn many... But my main concern would be the readings from each sensor, are they tested and matched from factory? If your tuning to a mismatched set of O2 sensors then the whole process of tuning is worthless? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Like I said I don’t really know so I thought I’d ask. Thanks. 👍🏻

[@timconnelly3804]

John Hasty I was thinking similar, along with temperature differences between cylinders, minor differences in spark plug gaps, etc. The main take-away is power went up every time they made a change, so they were making the right moves. Neat video.

[@jkw4277]

Question here. If they are planning on running nitrous, wouldn't you be better running fat or rich, since NO2 pushes an engine very lean? It's my understanding running NO2 rich, is much safer than lean. He doesn't say they dyno'd WITH nitrous, so I assume that happens later? Great to see you back working dude!!

[@bgd73]

4.75 stroke on gasoline. Giant. So now its just like every other modern carb and play with timing, once an overall average value is set in.

[@donaldpage607]

Back in the '70s I spent some time tuning a chev 301 with tunnel ram and 2x660s. I had to rely on reading spark plugs to manage the jetting. O2 sensors and a dyno is just cheating.

[@richardprice5978]

Donald Page nope just better tools and use the older ways to double check your work it's like wood working you would use a hand chuck to drill a hole now days would you? Probably not you'd just use a cordless drill right?

[@scottleggejr]

Great video. Great content. Thank you!

[@thomasjenkins7745]

Just curious how the AFR changes at the 660' when the scoop is sucking air at 150mph+...if it changes at all

[@delcowizzid]

And G-Force pushing fuel to the rear

[@rightsidelanechoice7702]

My 1050 dominator didn’t have a primary and secondary it was full progressive. I didn’t know holly made dominators like yours.

[@Moparmaga-1]

Do you think a gen 3 950 dominator is a good choice for a 471 cube stroker, with peak rpm 7200 ?

[@TurboDog73TX]

CNC ported heads or not I'm not surprised to see all the jet staggering with a conventional headed BBC. Looks like Y'all got it sorted pretty good.

[@HoosierRooster]

Chilly Willy yeah...they didn't say if it was a standard firing order or a 4/7 swap....the firing order makes the cylinder compete for the a/f mixture which causes rich/lean cylinders...this is cured a little in a big chief style head the does not have Siamese runners

[@MAPRTX]

the best video ever , learned soo much Thanks

[@johnsquires911]

How do you calibrate your sensors to know your readings are accurate?

[@nirtochicken]

Wow man we have made into the thousands of hp i think 1100 was our baddest sbc but this is on another level could u do this on a single carb mainly for just entire side say 1357 is leaner so add to that side given its a single plain intake

[@Edward135i]

What fuel are you guys running on this motor? Cly #1 seems very cranky, i'd love to see you guys do this on a injected motor and get the A/F's absolutely perfect.

[@hiteracing1489]

William Seroyer injected engines are easier, just tuning the injector pulse for each cylinder via tuning.

[@bodhizafa7125]

I'd like to see a simular video using the same engine only with fuel injection to see hp differences.

[@richardprice5978]

Bodhi Zafa and see if it's more even between cylinders on power and air/fuel ratio

[@HoosierRooster]

can you do a final Trim now with the high speed air bleeds?

[@patw52pb1]

Yes, if required.

[@BustedWalletGarage]

When ya going to make another video like this ??

[@vn_-kevin4109]

love the vids keep going man !!

[@zachfernandez1257]

Very cool too see how the Dominator is purpose tuned. even with 10.4L that is a lot of carb and a lot of runner for that monster. did the extra runner leignth add some extra rev duration on the top end? Another mechnic friend said the long runner leignth can sometimes make the engin tough to bring back out of orbit from the top end. any driving truth to that?

[@patw52pb1]

Too many variables and particular engine dynamics to make a blanket statement like that apply to every engine, configuration and application.

[@Chuffin_ell]

Did the city shut down your dyno Tom?

[@NickButlerish]

They got tired of him opening up black holes

[@Random-rt5ec]

Tuning an engine = 85% science 15% art.

[@johnnyhelbingjr9847]

great job Tom and Crew--love watching your shit--do you have a roku channel--i like that little streaming device---theres sooo much to watch on tv these days i dont get to see you much, but love it when i do... GIVER !!!!

[@lamont22222]

this why pro stock went to split carbs to get it even closer

[@bigredracer7848]

My 632 BBC makes 1378 horsepower 1197 torque why is yours down so much on power

[@bigredracer7848]

I got this one a little late but thank you for the great video

[@daphnemiller4301]

My Corvette L82 is automatic I cant drive a stick but please explain how that engine will fit in my car ?

[@justinmarc231]

but what happens when you run it with the air cleaner on? the throats would create a turbulence??

[@patw52pb1]

What throats?

[@zacharyanderson3595]

Justin Hinton the only time turbulence comes into affect is when you don't have a scoop or air cleaners or a sealing plate under your scoop

[@gregoryb7485]

Awesome vid dude

[@pleasegrowabrain]

Hey Tom, is there any way to individually port the tunnel ram runners to adjust for variances in cylinder A/F ratios with the setup you were tuning? The adjustments to the carburetor(s) jetting affect all the cylinders don’t they?

[@mechanicalking]

Yes just like the four Middle cylinder cam lobes and the outside four are different in NASCAR to even out the cylinders because of the intake runners having different lengths

[@thewakz]

I am guessing if air pressure changes everything, you shouldn't dyno tune like this if the car is going to be ram air?