DESTROY, DO NOT WOUND | The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli

[@Obtaineudaimonia]

Welcome back my friend, The two main protagonists in this video, Agathocles and Oliverotto da Fermo may seem to have taken similar routes to acquire their power, but Machiavelli explains some subtle differences… Also, I've packed almost everything I know about Machiavelli, into a short digital book: eudaimoniayoutube.gumroad.com/l/master-machiavelli *ad victoriam* - Adam

[@lalfaro1480]

On the chapter on wickedness I tried to simplify it to you the modern example for the movie like Scarface and The Godfather once ambition of self interests and the other who uses good cruelty to bring proper order so give me your opinion on what you think

[@tiberiusmagnificuscaeser4929]

“If you must injure a man, make your injury so severe that you need not fear his revenge” That has always been my favorite quote from Machiavelli, ever since I read it.

[@Coleorton7]

I guess Negan from TWD failed in that regard!

[@PraetorDrew]

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

[@PraetorDrew]

No more half-measures. -Mike Ehrmantraut

[@seekwisdom7757]

A Dark Forest The true story of the founding of my ancestral town in 15th century Punjab: A local Ruler granted ownership of a large tract of land to a large joint family with instruction to cultivate it & pay certain taxes every harvest. When they arrived there they found it had already been settled by a fearsome foreign tribe. They realised they had a big dilemma: to deal with the tribe & start working the land or be executed for not paying the tax ?? What they did was to prepare a great evening feast at their camping ground & invite the tribe. Once all the guests were enjoying the food & music, the hosts disappeared into the gloom. The feast area caved in suddenly and the whole tribe fell into the massive pit below. None survived the night. The town of Rurka Kalan has grown from that settlement by stubborn people determined to survive & succeed.

[@mihajlo961x]

Metal

[@nobodyfromnowhere3597]

Machiavelli was never a monster but he knew why monsters existed.

[@cedrichunter9759]

It is better to be feared than loved. For men love you as they please but fear you as they must.

[@gck9437]

Then it must be said that he who is feared is never loved

[@rockysingh8436]

All this are words it not matter only things matter is power. Fear come from power.

[@dillpickles3046]

A black guy named Cedric... That’s something new

[@cedrichunter9759]

@@dillpickles3046 'New'? I've met plenty of black dudes named Cedric. You need to get around more....after all this craziness.

[@mattroddy4643]

where is this in the book, the prince? I need it to quote.

[@Dan-ud8hz]

"Never wound a snake; kill it." - Harriet Tubman

[@schizoidboy]

One thing clear in this video is that if you use ruthless means to control a state you have to be sure you do not have outside enemies who can overthrow you. I think of Mussolini who used ruthless means to take power and by and large he was successful, however, by joining in WWII he ultimately put himself into a position he couldn't win militarily. So when other armies invaded they were seen by the Italians as liberators, leaving Mussolini to rely on his power base in the North but he was also trapped in a civil war as well with resistance fighters supported by the Allied forces and the rest of Italy. Even the weapons makers deserted him for the resistance. You have to restrict your ruthlessness with your people or else an outside force might not seem so bad to your own people if leaving you in power might be seen as the greater evil.

[@laughingachilles]

The exception is a state like North Korea, where the people have been brainwashed for so many generations that they believe the leader is almost a god and they have limited access to outside information which counters this idea.

[@schizoidboy]

Can't and won't disagree with you there, that's an example of being able to control all sources of communication and creating a culture where in the absence of a traditional religion allows the state to create a quasi-religion from the deification of the rulers. It is not an easy thing to bring about, but being from a culture that is cut off from other cultures makes it easier. If you have no one questioning the government publically and no means to do it, brainwashing becomes the byproduct of the state. From what I hear many North Koreas who leave their state are bewildered by what they find on the outside. On the other side of the DMZ the South has "come and see for yourself" written on their side of the border.

[@juicecan6450]

+Laughing Achilles Im not fully clear on the facts but from the couple korean movies i've watched North Korea throughout its history has had a tribal societal structure and were barbaric to some extent because of the repeated invasions by russians and mongol raiders. South Korea had excellent trade and cultural exchange and comparatively had it easy enough to establish stable empires. As a result they became more isolationist since how can you trust a neighbor so close to you and doesnt have any values in common. And this tradition of isolationism, the concept of being blocked out from the rest of their world is all they've known for a long time in history, and thats why dictatorship with complete control of communications which is not even supposed to be possible in a human society thats as connected as it is today is made possible. North Korea is a perfect case study of a land in need of a renaissance. And it's 6 centuries behind schedule.

[@alexandermwangi7863]

@@juicecan6450 ?

[@Redbird-dh7mu]

Yeah, Machiavelli Warner against being too cruel. He said that if you have to be cruel, you should do it swiftly and in one action, so that way the people can forget/forgive and you can still appear to be a good person in front of the people. Machiavelli actually said that being hated by the people is a horrible thing, he said that being feared isn’t bad, but being hated is. Basically, don’t constantly put your people down, be cruel when you have to (like with those who are guilty of treason), but do not be cruel if you don’t have to. Your people will remember your cruelty, but they will think, “well, he isn’t so bad, as long as I don’t commit treason I will be ok”. If they think, “he is a mad man, I am next.” Then you have lost already

[@98wongjf]

Now I know what inspires the Red Wedding.

[@EMlNENCJA]

GOT me here 😌

[@nebojsag.5871]

Diodotus' plan wasn't anti-machiavelian. In fact, they established a de facto colony by enfranchising the locals, making them loyal. I would say they did in fact destroy the ruling oligarchy to the point of them not being able to retaliate, and then they put in power people that they treated nicely, namely the people.

[@jacobblanton5179]

Niko Ništa I thought similarly. Both sides sought to crush the state as punishment, one through violence and one through sanctions, bu5 the intent to do damage to the state's rulers was not all too dissimilar. But I also think it makes more sense when you consider that these specific "rules" for wickidness are more specifically about destruction of, often innocent, human life as a means of reining in power, not about the justification or initial intended result of whatever action you take.

[@raymondtendau2749]

Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic. Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice, and justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love. ‐Martin Luther King. Power and love are not two pollar opposites.They both fulfill each other.

[@torquevonthorne948]

Every Total war campaign ever. Concede peace to a faction because of rebellions or your armies taking attrition and one day you'll have to fight them again... and they will raid your land in the meantime

[@myguychris7739]

Torque von Thorne you're absolutely right!!

[@BillHimmel]

Machiavelli also emphasized, that one can become prince simply by birth as the legitimate heir of the king!

[@Obtaineudaimonia]

Indeed. Having the good fortune to be born into nobility is one method of becoming a prince "by luck".

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

He wasn't the only one, to be fair... "By the sword or by the cloth" was a popular way of pointing that aspect of "nobility" out. ;o)

[@SantomPh]

it is possible, but he uses only one example of blood making a good ruler, Titus of Rome. He emphasizes that the Good Emperors were all adopted and not born in the purple

[@juicecan6450]

+SantomPh Agreed. This could be refutable but i blame the inability of bloodlines to consistently bring good rulers on the crazy inbreeding among the bluebloods. This doesn't directly lead to abominations but mostly manifests as health defects. A sound mind is only possible with a healthy body.

[@nicxl3035]

A lovely point, the Mytilenian Debate was still deciding between the two sides of treating people well or crushing them. Enemies today can be friends tomorrow. Instead of destroying an enemy, make them an asset. It all depends on the pros and cons of the situation. In the case for Athens, the rebellious city state was not a significant enemy for them. Athens made an example of them not by destruction and spreading fear to the other cities, but instead making peace with the grievance and turning the city into an asset. Punishment should seem proportionate to the crime and be shown as justice.

[@alexmartinez3719]

You could still argue that by forcing the cities into democracy they did destroy their enemies (the cities' governments) in one single blow.

[@vicdmise]

This still speaks to Machiavellian tactics: you conquer a people by destroying the rulers, setting up your own colonies there to solidify your position, and largely leaving the people alone. Then you grant them a few small positive changes that don't threaten your power, and can set up democracy and collect taxes.

[@soumenin]

Good Work my friend, was missing your voice and tactics for long. Yep, your video makes a lot of sense. Will wait for more..

[@kozlorog]

I'd like to thank you for your channel. I am sure you will get a wide audience.

[@FishyNiden]

Killing all the leaders and forcing upon new rule swiftly is pretty Machiavellian, I would say. Cleon's solution is not Machiavellian as, while a swift show of cruelty, would have left them the prince of corpses. Machiavelli always argued from the point of ruling, and mercilessly killing off potential subjects is never supported by him, only kill those who is not only unable to be subjugated, but also those that would infer such behavior in others, and do thus swiftly or you will be the one who would infer such behavior. Diodotus's solution killed of the leaders of the revolt, and merely changed who was the primary taxer of the land. To the common man, such a change is negligible, as for him, it is still taxes.

[@jacksmithers8575]

Stike wounds, then bigger ones that enemies may not recover from, do not cease. When they're finally down, destroy in total because you've see what they will do when above you. They can never be trusted again.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Rhadamistus is proof against this. After murdering his uncle, nephews, and sister to gain power, he tried to become King of Armenia. But in doing this, he opened the way for a Roman general to start rampaging, and that opened the way to the Parthians to try and place Tiridates on the throne. When he reclaimed his position, he punished the Armenian cities who had supported Tiridates, but they revolted and drove him back to Georgia to die at his own father's hands. His actions opened the doors of Chaos and he lost all control. In the end, it was Tiridates, who showed mercy to Rhadamisthus' widow and son, who established one of the most influential Dynasties of Armenia.

[@MarcusDarkstar]

That was not a good example. For if he followed the advice he would have DESTROYED not punished those cities. He should have treated them well instead if he was not willing to go all the way in his ruthlessness. His half-measures sowed hatred for him and destroyed him. Frankly Tridates followed Machievelli's advice more faithfully. He treated the widow and son well getting their gratitude for his mercy and returned that favor.

[@matiastorres1510]

Machiavelli stated things as they were not necessarily as he thought they should be.

[@nilloc93]

this would also fall under "take what you can" with the Romans, a known hyper aggressive power, nearby he should not have overstretched his attempted power grab.

[@patrichausammann]

This video is well done and it contains good thoughts!

[@mkelebay]

The bit about the Mytilenian Debate is a bit skewed, the people of Athens were just uncomfortable with the prospect of annihilation of a previous ally. Diodotus argued that doing this would paint Athens in a tyrannical light, one in which Athens wasn't the upholder and defender of Democracy, but rather the opressing regime dictating how city-states should govern themselves, (especially important as much of Greece was still used an oligopoly as their system). Anyways the point is that the Debate doesn't really chime well with how you compare it to Machiavelli. Machiavelli would no doubt do as the Athenians did, as clearly, there could and likely would be revenge from other city-states who saw Athens committing massacre.

[@sohaibkabouya7651]

great work thank you i can amount of afford you but on big up and Nicola is one of the great thinking and he has more realities point of view for live

[@kristoffer2250]

It's not brutal, cruel or inhumane, it's just politics.

[@karl5722]

In the mytilenian case, both sides are machiavellian since both secure power of Athens and silence rivalries. It should be maintained that Machiavelli thought in his Discourses on Livy that a republican state is the best one since it has the least corruption than monarchy and aristocracy. Anyway, Machiavelli didn't necessarily advocated for cruelty but on necessity. A ruler, if possible, can give benefits to his people, or spare their lifes, if the end result is stability and rivalries silenced. This is essentially what you said in the video and in others like it.

[@GianniEndo]

Great video, great channel and content. You've earned yourself a new subscriber, keep up the good work

[@slynch3467]

imposing democracy on Mytilene was destroying the enemy completely

[@Ath931]

Athen followed Machiavelli's advice: they destroyed the previous mithilenyan government giving power to a new group of people. Also, the revolt against Athen and the fall of the political influence of Athen are probably a sign that they weren't feared enough, maybe it would have been better to give a cruel example and make all greek cities fear them, like Alexander the Great did with Thebes or the Romans with Corinth, both them ruled without any other problems over Greece after those decisions.

[@GetThePicture]

Nice job👍 Machiavelli is controversial for sure but food for thought👍 More videos please🙂

[@ankokunokayoubi]

basically he exposes how people get into, maintain and defend their power and control.

[@neokhesa8592]

There's also the added complexity of whether or not the people would accept you as their new ruler. If the current ruler is really popular I suspect this could be a problem no matter how benevolent you may be following your coup. This sounds a lot like advise one would read from "the art of war"

[@chris1806]

What do you think of Machiavelli and how would you deal with Machiavellian bosses ? Would Stoicism help and how ?

[@period5304]

Truth is a subjective to our judgmental minds... Nothings is good or bad. Everything is permitted.

[@montanabaker1713]

I wonder what happened on that asteroid when he was little that made The Prince so ruthless.

[@jackthegod9988]

now i know what type of books the ITALIAN MAFIA members read

[@sasufreqchann]

the beginning of the playist is good . but now i feel alot of resistance lol amd suddenly he comes and calms my worrys lol

[@smithertoddsforge2625]

It's my belief that the ends never justify the means. There is no Good in doing Evil, no matter why it is you do it, or how you go about it.

[@nolblk2323]

You should try being open minded see for yourself being illogical to yourself will only bring destruction to yourself.

[@beachmaster3486]

Am I missing something with the Mytilenian debate? Seems like Spartans and the Mytilenians could just ally and try again. Crushing them is security, letting them live is a risk.

[@sasufreqchann]

5:07 bushido code of honour xD

[@RayisX]

the funny thing is Lenin didnt want to kill Nicholas and his family it was a mistake but it all worked out

[@kobathedread]

Yes. Plain sailing thereafter for Russia.

[@digitalbrentable]

Indeed! Also, an interesting counter example is that of Puyi, the last emperor of China. The communists took great pride in educating Puyi in Mao Zedong thought and re-entering him into society as a humble and remorseful commoner who supported the party and saw the ills of imperialism. They specifically held Puyi up as a counter-example to the treatment of the Romanovs, after the Sino-soviet split resulted in Maoism and Marxism-Leninism becoming sort of competitor ideologies.

[@KaiserAfini]

Agathocles, what an ironic name, agathos means good in Greek.

[@6Man666666]

Didn’t forgiving the myteleans lead to Athens eventual defeat in the Peloponnesian war ?

[@sirarthurofwinterfell282]

I would have voted for Cleon that way when the children grow up they would fear us understand that one wrong move would cost them their lives

[@Martyn-1337]

Attack on Titan sent me here. Was the rumbling really necessary?

[@PrinceoftheCityNY]

Doing my homework

[@als4179]

Was he not imprisoned and executed ?

[@antonbouffard9281]

what's with this guys voice intonations?

[@klaasvaak2575]

hehe, yea cuz putting a stupidly heavy financial strain on a country that lost a war works

[@Paul-zs7rd]

meffods?

[@robinjohnson1485]

Don't mess with other mens wives or horses... you will make too many enemies.

[@CeticWales]

interesting stuff, subscribe.

[@HavocHerseim]

State... big S

[@davidmauney4149]

Democry is easier.

[@elasticharmony]

Comparing Lenin to a Prince is one of the grossest thoughts I've ever heard. Is this presenter thus supporting such actions? The killing of women and children is not what Machiavelli is saying. He means lines of succession like brothers and uncles etc. I would say he is wrong on this issue and his view here has given his instructive book a very bad name and distorted it's use to be applied as it is today for only wicked and contradictory ends. The Romanovs were not a problem and exile would have been accepted. Thus the USSR had many dead soldiers in the world wars something that would not have happened. One rule to this "Atheists are not Princes".

[@hdgehog6]

Who the fuck are you people? .....sub'd!!!

[@sohaibkabouya7651]

great work thank you i can amount of afford you but on big up and Nicola is one of the great thinking and he has more realities point of view for live