Off Road Recovery 101 - Hi-Lift and Electric Winching

Correction on the pulley block information (7:00): If the winch line goes back to the vehicle with the winch, there is a mechanical advantage, even if the pulley is not in motion. If the pulley block is attached to a tree, and is redirecting the line to another vehicle, there is no mechanical advantage. Mike explains exactly how to tell if you have a mechanical advantage at 8:14.
Presented by BOLD Overland - www.boldoverla...
Video assistance from Overland Pioneers - overlandpionee...
Videoed at Smoky Mountain Overland Rally - www.smorally.com
Introduction to recovery equipment, and how to winch with a Hi-Lift jack and electric winch.
#winching #recovery #lesson

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

So.. being curious guys and to clean up our instruction, Mike and I just set up a pulley test. We did 2 tests, one running a line to a pulley block anchored on a tree then back to the vehicle(moving object), the other, we ran the line through a pulley block, anchored off a tree to another tree (fixed object). During each test, we marked 6' of winch line then measured off 3' then 6' on the ground. During the first test, the line ran through the pulley block back to the vehicle, 6' of line moved and 3' of distance was covered on the ground. During the second test, ran to the fixed object, 6' of line moved and 6' of distance was covered on the ground. Essentially, we found, when ran back to the vehicle, it is a true 2:1 advantage. Conversely, when it's ran to a fixed object, it's a 1:1 ratio. Ultimately, shortening the line on a redirect can help to get closer to one layer on the drum, but that's pretty much it. Ultimately, we are going to do more testing and scale pulley's with weight on an actual loaded line to get more data with multiple pulley's. Sorry for the confusion, and we have no problem admitting when we are wrong.

[@BushcraftOnTracks]

BOLD OVERLAND I know you’re just testing but when you get a chance let’s see some video. I think this would be an awesome demonstration!

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

BushcraftOnTracks You got it brother 👍

[@ratfunkblue]

The pull strength Mechanical advantage of a pulley can be demonstrated by a free body diagram of the pulley. This is taught to engineers in static physics class. Also, motion is always relative in physics, doesn’t matter what frame of reference you are use it the physics are the same. Whether the pulley is moving and the car isn’t or vice versa.

[@steveeichelberger806]

Someone didn’t pass physics class. 😂 Good to see to cleared it up. 👍

[@carvingupthetrails7288]

Such great information. I'm new to all this and there is such a wealth of knowledge held in this video. Thanks for sharing.

[@m3logistics]

Well-presented recovery and winching training session! Joseph Alberts (Cape Town, South Africa)

[@gtjac]

Wow. Great job. Super enjoyable!

[@stockman214]

Excellent video! Very helpful and I would love more content that's educational like this.

[@ayayron7776]

I love your channel I can’t wait to get off road in my Jeep wj soon but in the meantime I love watching all your videos!!!

[@RevereOverland]

Thanks for watching! Hopefully we'll see you out on the trails soon!

[@kadmow]

Just adding weight to those who disagree with the description of a double line Pull. (~7minutes) (you could reedit the video or add some onscreen text clearing up any confusion.) A pulley at the base of a tree IS moving relative to the 4x4 with a bumper mounted winch therefore you are getting a "2:1" advantage (less friction) as 2 lines are supporting the load (as far as the winch is concerned the anchor point is the moving load with the snatch block attached). The pull described around 9 minutes is a 3:1 pull, ie, from the perpective of the winch (the vehicle) there are 3 lines supporting the load.... lol... 16:53 "is just going to fall down"... come on guys.. The winch rope / cable doesn't know what winch is pulling it... A hi-lift has a max load of around 3000kg (29kN, 6600lb) If the line breaks (at that load) it will be the same recoil as if they were using a 10000lb electric winch with 3-4 wraps on the drum. Yes pulling 29kN of force on a hi-lift will be a lot of effort (maybe not possible with the standard length handle), but the jack is capable.

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

kadmow yea, we’re hoping folks read the comments. Pulling a video down and rendering again go adjust is a pain my friend.

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

Man, let’s get you on camera next time.

[@kadmow]

@@BOLDOVERLAND : dude. i know it is hard to say the right thing in real time.. I do try to make it a learning experience for everyone. Have to forget the cameras I do live training and I would probably be horrified at the things I say in retrospect. Respect man. no ad hominems.

[@RevereOverland]

@@kadmow I've added to the description. Check it out and let me know what you think.

[@kadmow]

@@RevereOverland : the description edit adds context /correction, without a re-edit. Thankyou. I takes character to listen to others. I hope I show the same charcter when others pull me up. cheers. The net should be here to allow peer review and open education.

[@4Runnernguns]

Good video. Thanks for posting.

[@BushcraftOnTracks]

This is a great video and very informative. I love your channel so please don’t take this as a negative comment but I respectfully disagree with the information given about a double line pull. It’s true in order for mechanical advantage to present a pulley needs to be “in motion” but when the force is being applied to the line by the object that is being moved mechanical advantage is present. Even though the pulley isn’t actually in motion the object is doing the pulling so each line splits the load. A 6,000lbs load will put 3,000lbs of pull on each line, therefore causing the winch to only pull the 3,000lbs. If the object being pulled is not the one doing the pulling then it would be considered a redirect. Don’t take my word for it if you research mechanical advantage you will probably understand it better than I could explain it. Great video overall!!

[@4Runnernguns]

I was wondering if anyone else caught that. The pulley doesn’t know if it’s moving or not. The mechanical advantage is created by shortening the distance between the pulley and the load and force points. If you go through the snatch block and back to your own vehicle, then when you pull you’re shortening the distance between the pulley and the force and anchor point. You divide the force between the two lines and approximately halve the load on the winch. If you go through the pulley block and to another vehicle or tree then you’re only shortening the distance on one side of the pulley so the force is the same and it’s just a redirect.

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

Also, I just remembered this. If the winch line is going back to the vehicle, the advantage is there. If the line, coming out of the pulley is going to a fixed object, like a tree, the advantage wouldn’t be 2:1, but an improvement for sure. I’m loving the discussion, and if we screwed it up, that’s ok. We’ll get after it and clean it up for next time.

[@BushcraftOnTracks]

BOLD OVERLAND Now you got it. So long as the winch line is going back to the vehicle doing the pulling it’s a 2:1 mechanical advantage. If the line goes through the pulley to another vehicle or object it’s only considered a force redirect.

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWTZn6V9jtKGa7c Here is a great video that describes pulleys accurately. Shared by a fellow I4WDTA trainer and friend.

[@RevereOverland]

Thanks for catching that! In Mike's defence, he did talk for several minutes on when a pulley does and does not give a mechanical advantage. Unfortunately my audio was terrible, so I cut almost all of it! I may have cut a key part off!

[@ChrisShaferKTM]

The description of the DLP vs redirect at 8:00 was incorrect... If it's back to the same truck as the winch it's 2:1

[@TheRightLine]

Nicely done.

[@shaweehillsworkshop4226]

This is an awesome video!

[@RevereOverland]

They did a great job in the class, it made the video part easy!

[@z3lot]

This video is gold!

[@allenajello1980]

I keep seeing these videos saying that a pulley on a tree is a mechanical advantage... over and over... and here I am thinking am I the guy getting kids level pulleys wrong? Thank you for backing up what I know.

[@RassieKariuki]

If you go to a stationary pulley, say tied to a tree and then back to your car recovery point, it's not a redirect. You get the 2:1 mechanical advantage.

[@phillipdavis3053]

Dang it.. Nobody said there would be math involved.... Translate that to Kentucky public school for me. :)

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

Phillip Davis Ha ha... dude, if we can figure it out, anyone can lol.

[@RevereOverland]

Time to add a calculator to your recovery kit!

[@trekministries4327]

I have a question about the mechanical winching part. I understand the set up, but once the hi lift has run its length, how do you adjust the synthetic winch line to be able to reset the hi lift and start over for multiple pulls for a longer winch?

[@bradenb]

Is it safe to double over the kinetic strap like he has at 22:55 ? I thought these straps needed to be kept straight and unbound.

[@BOLDOVERLAND]

Disclaimer, some techniques we used and talking points are open for discussion. Let us know your thoughts and be sure to give us a follow. Also, check our website for future recovery classes. Follow the traffic below for info on pulleys.

[@RevereOverland]

Here's a direct link to the classes offered: www.boldoverland.com/classes-1

[@SHWELL11]

My buddy Rick pops up in the vid.. Sucks I missed this event

[@RevereOverland]

Will you be at next year’s?

[@xmldigitz1]

If I run a winch line from my truck to a buddy’s truck with a pulley and back to my truck is that a 2:1?

[@RevereOverland]

Yes

[@aliveoutside248]

The Statement at 3:55 is, best case, very misleading and more so, just wrong. It could get someone hurt if they tried to “catch” 5400lbs “falling” . I think you have a false understanding of shock load. I’m not trying to sniper the video but statements like that are important.

[@lawrencedecker17]

Do people pay for these classes? If so 22:24 congrats you made him unpoor. now continue to tell me how user error destroyed your winch good sir