Old World vs New World - with John Heers

[@maximusatlas9377]

Brilliant talk. More people need to watch and understand this. I was an atheist for 10 years because I came from an evangelical background. Protestants lack the rich intellectual and artistic background that Orthodoxy and Traditional Catholics have. I'm Orthodox now and I'm quite satisfied at what I found.

[@69meplease100]

Exact same here man, whole new world

[@oddsandexabytes]

Yes. Agreed. Same here.

[@_Eamon]

I was reminded of this quote from Robert Jastrow: For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.

[@flowstateentertainment8395]

Wow. Sounds dope

[@thestraightroad305]

Hahahahah! Delightful!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@user-tp7wi4lt2b]

Except that he will never be able to climb that last rock by reason alone.

[@heavythingslightly]

Love this! Bravo!

[@DanVicious]

irregardless we find our interpretation of consciousness meaning beyond ASAP

[@MasteringJohn]

12:05 Reminds me of that moment in Game of Thrones when Tywin notes, "Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."

[@cactoidjim1477]

I've reached the point where I like your videos as soon as I start playing them.

[@TheDonovanMcCormick]

“I don’t know how it fixes itself and I’ve got a feeling you don’t think it does” Jonathan: smiling

[@olerocker3470]

But it does lead to something.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

@@olerocker3470 no it doesn't leads to same thing cycles everything is cycles theres never a start or a finish or a result although people do stuff that seems to provide the proof to them that there is a start and finish point.

[@TripleJJJ111JJJ]

I love that you said you were converted to Orthodox Christianity by Muslims. That statement is profound and I would love to hear that story some day.

[@coren4739]

The fact that Jesus was Logos is the reason why an ethno-religion like Judaism was opened up like a mustard seed. So not only was it the Blood that spread the Spirit but also through the Paraclete. This is why Christians spread the word(logos), as first an oral tradition and then logos in writ. The Gospel(Good Spell, Gods Spell) reveals it's self through space, time, and individuals and then books join again, often in conflict, there by self-editing. The spell is so good that it changed all of reality and it continues to work as people continue to read it and become to live it.

[@Janine11155]

"Both/And" is very Orthodox. But so is another aspect I would add, and that is "I don't know." Put these together and you have Orthodox.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

My parents are from Surinam, when I read the old testament for the first time it actually reminded me of the Christiannity + animism practised by many afro Surinamese. Sometimes partial paganism is a bonus

[@allisgrace1313]

Listening to you gents helps me make sense of why I sought out paganism in my youth and then found home and truth as a traditional-minded Catholic. I've always felt like a fish out of water in our new world.

[@panoramicprism]

I feel this!

[@allisgrace1313]

@@panoramicprism Glad to know I'm not alone! Sure can feel like it at times! God Bless You!

[@Blazingwaffles123]

Similar path for myself.

[@allisgrace1313]

@@Blazingwaffles123 So interesting! I feel as though many of the people in our old coven where well-meaning, truth seeking ppl and perhaps had they been raised in a world of traditional Christian thinking would have never felt the void they were trying to fill with neo-paganism. Unfortunately, most of these folks are just to biased now to see truth where it actually resides. Short of the personal Eucharist miracle or graces my husband and I experienced, that would have been the case for us as well! So many of us where simply hungry for the Liturgical year, of which we had no idea even existed, and filled that void with the 'Sabbats & Esbats'. Rarely was the focus of our coven on spell work that didn't relate to these marks of time. I wonder if others would agree with this experience. I thank God for those of us who found God and His Truth and pray for those who are still caught in such darkness.

[@allisgrace1313]

@@panoramicprism I posted something down below in this comment section. Perhaps you'd read it and see if it speaks to your experience as well?

[@seablue5]

I love the talk about re-invigorating the language of belief. Christian testimony had become a cliche. I've been exploring ways of expressing meaning to overcome this barrier myself. Cliched language has given rise to cliched responses from tired listeners. The life imbued word can do wonders.

[@PraetorClaudius]

Amen to that.

[@DanVicious]

finding myself experiencing understanding and explaining truth and confusion, in each moment.

[@Bennethon]

This is an excellent conversation!

[@lisaonthemargins]

John Heers seems like such a cool person, this is a great conversation. I'll definitely be checking out the rabbit podcast

[@joaomallet5173]

Awesome talk!

[@HalfManThirdBiscuit]

Your fade-in is an unusual touch and it works.

[@jordanedgeley6601]

I really needed this, im glad you are able to put these out

[@CLFmoto87]

That intro GLOW UP

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@KizaWittaker]

Funny how Jordan and Jonathan are now best friends.

[@johndale1694]

The Spirit is bringing recovery

[@celienepaul5378]

❤helping the aggregate consciousness one conversation at a time

[@davidstrickland1412]

Been reading a lot of Guenon lately, and I’m also listening to a lot of Dr. E. Michael Jones.

[@corvinrick3644]

Where do you listen to Jones? It is not much on KZbin right?

[@davidstrickland1412]

@@corvinrick3644 different people interview him on KZbin. A lot of it is the same thing, though.

[@jakemild3750]

Corvin Rick he’s on bitchute as well

[@Williamsdshs11]

That’s awesome. I didn’t know Dr. Jones and Jonathan’s audiences overlapped much of at all.

[@brendanryan1852]

I'm hoping to buy all Jone's books and keep them safe for my children to have as they come of age . I think all this information will be erased in the not too distant future.

[@accuset]

I wish we were in a space that we saw how this part of the story ended, or what mindset comes out of this. The fear is in following Russia - embracing the control method and watching it take away everything, until we break to pieces. But the problem is, if we can't just turn back time, what direction can we move forward, aside from walking towards the guaranteed martyrdom. How do we learn from the past, when many are so desperate to repeat it?

[@EO-John9540]

The old Desert Fathers prophesied the end of ages would be spiritually low (or dead). Modern Elders have said that just very small things to honor God can itself be a big sacrifice or martyrdom due to how fallen our society is (especially into secularism and 'everyone has their own truth'): www.impantokratoros.gr/orthodoxy-contemporary-elders.en.aspx St Paisios has said punishment can be conditional - one can repent to assuage the corrective actions of God, as the Gentile people of Nineveh, since the corrective actions of God themselves are in fact salvific (see articles at the bottom). As Fr Hopko says, "early Christianity never saw itself as a 'new' religion - it was the end of all religions - a religion belongs to this world." When we mold Christianity to the world instead of molding the world to Christianity, we should not terribly surprised at the result. Lord have mercy. St John of Kronstadt foresaw the fall of Russia to the revolution, and there were many warnings against the Council of Florence in Christian Rome before the west sacked and destroyed the empire (even if it took a few more centuries to fall, 50 years of the west looting destroyed Byzantium). St Nikolai of Serbia warned Europe and Serbia before WWII on the coming disasters of choosing science and secularism instead of God. Remember the Old Testament is full of the people of God worshipping Him, then falling away, and God trying to bring them back to Him generation after generation in a continual cycle - or 'wrestling' as Israel can mean. Christ our Lord and Savior is the same God of the Old Testament, so we can (one Elder has said) look at Israel's falling and returning as a mirror of our own lives - always moving away, and trying to come back. Some articles: ST John Chrysostom - On God's providence and His ways: stjohngoc.org/chrysostom-and-gods-providence/ Divine Providence by St. John of Tobolsk livingorthodoxfaith.blogspot.com/2009/11/divine-providence-by-st-john-of-tobolsk.html "Why did God settle Adam in Paradise, knowing that Adam would not live in Paradise for long, but would be expelled from it? Why did Christ add Judas Iscariot to the circle of the apostles, knowing in advance that the latter would become a traitor to Him? What is the reason for such changes in God’s determinations?" fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2013/06/stump-priest-what-about-violence-in-old.html "God judges nations in history. Nations do not have an afterlife in which they can receive punishment or reward. God dispenses His justice upon nations in history, and so this justice by its very nature is dispensed collectively. If a nation is wicked, it will suffer the fruits of that wickedness, and unfortunately that means even the youngest children in that nation reap the bitter harvest sown by their parents. Our culture is very individualistic, but in Scripture, we find a view of the human race that sees us as having a corporate personality as well as being individuals. We are ultimately judged as individuals in eternity, but in this life we are not just individuals... we are part of families, tribes, and nations."

[@robertagajeenian7222]

Jonathan, you might enjoy Iain McGilchrist's book, "The Master and his Emissary". He discusses the functions of the left and right hemispheres of the brain and how they have come into conflict with each other instead of cooperating - especially in the modern West. Dovetails nicely with what you are saying.

[@WhiteStoneName]

John has a *great* voice for podcasting.

[@KanuniSuleyman4857]

Irony is that people living in New world are also from the Old world 😂😂😂

[@jessemartin9720]

Postmodernism is both useful and dangerous? Yes. Great interview!

[@paulconn7849]

Johnathon, Out of the blue I came across the movie "Patterns" written by Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame. Very dry story about corporate America in New York City, nothing like his Twilight stories, but the title I think refers to the same thing as your "patterns." Love, love to hear you comment about this very obscure movie, which looks at reality.

[@edwinjacobellis4852]

Man I took the test and I got a 5, I feel like I gotta pray for the rest of the night now

[@heavythingslightly]

Lol

[@YouTubeComments]

new diggs are looking good!

[@evgeny9965]

Leonardo looks back to the medieval world that is what makes him so “mysterious “. Most people don’t realize this and interpret him solely through the Renaissance… just say’n …

[@timothydeneffe249]

Jonathan -"how can I say this so that someone who doesn't think there is a god, or unseen aspect to reality, understands what I'm talking about" - Pageau

[@malpais776]

Dang, I scored exactly like Jonathan. I think I feel better already.

[@PresterMike]

Jon my man another great vid!!!

[@Okayand33]

Great video 😄

[@galacticecho7027]

It is strange that many modern Christian's struggle with the idea that the Bible has either/or logic but also both/and logic. It was a place I feel God very clearly led me a few years ago.

[@twizelby]

At 42 minutes in,, is there an English version of mythologies? How do you spell that name? Rolobert?

[@carissavisscher9648]

John mentioned something about Johnathan being both/and. Is this in contrast to either/or philosophy? Does anyone have an answer to this?

[@isaacclark5833]

The study of Phsycology shifted humanity into a new world.

[@johndale1694]

Jesus is walking in you Two Me too The first parable if we understand We will understand all The parables

[@papagiiigo2985]

Congrats on 100k subs!

[@luizmenezes9971]

The closest thing the modern materialist men have to the concept the medieval men had of god is Cthulhu. And believe me, the only thing he would want from Cthulhu is that he keep sleeping.

[@brotherbroseph1416]

I love the new intro

[@occidentalunrest8928]

Will you/have you considered having a conversation with Patrick Ryan of Cultstate? Having a conversation with a like minded friend and we would love to hear you two converse about symbolism and the world.

[@mm-wm3jd]

Brother Jonathan, thank you for your honesty about René Guénon. It is disappointing that JP Marceau opened defamation campaign against Guénon by giving him inappropriate names to discourage people not to read his book. JP Marceau should be ashamed of himself for attacking a scholar (Guénon) due to his religion being Islam while unable to refute a single of the author's ideas.

[@lisaonthemargins]

What? A defamation campaign? Wow, really?

[@mm-wm3jd]

@@lisaonthemargins Yes in his article and talks, marceau refer to Guénon as paranoid, deranged, not grounded etc... And he adds that reading Guénon books leads to insanity. Just unbelievable.

[@alejandro1997ag]

Love the new intro!!!!

[@Jerrellofficial0]

Still trying to understand what I just watched. Other video suggestions?

[@MrBWB]

Like the new intro!!! Would you consider making more biblical prints like the Jonah one?? That we can buy copies of? I have a big framed print of Jonah in the Whale that you did. Like a Dore series of art kinda thing

[@olerocker3470]

35:53 "My resources and your potential …" Now if that doesn't bleed symbolism that you and your brother constantly speak of then I don't know what does.

[@coren4739]

25:18 I believe you're comparing Emergent Patterns vs. Immanent Patterns? There is no apriori without first priori.

[@johannakunze3300]

It's ripping apart in Europe, too. What about the eastern and southern continents?

[@strugglingathome]

Love the new intro of the days of creation!

[@lisaonthemargins]

Jacob is probably freaking out right now

[@looqo7632]

I'd been trying to get these two together for a few months. Yes, I was excited to hear it was happening.

[@lisaonthemargins]

@@looqo7632

[@danielpadrnos6194]

If you're looking for the Old World/New World test go to first-things.org, click "podcast" under the discover tab, and you'll see the button to take the light-o-meter test.

[@lucilacantu]

As a catholic ,everything you say makes a lot of sense. Are our churches "sisters" in a way? When you say "the church", would that also apply to the Catholic Roman Church? Thanks 🙏🏻

[@olgakarpushina492]

In the 60s, Paul II acknowledged the Orthodox Church a sister church. Catholics aren't supposed to take the Orthodox communion, but trying to "seduce" the Orthodox into Catholicism was considered unnecessary. The Orthodox have been considering the Catholic Church heretical since the great schism of 1054. We don't see your Church as a sister Church. But we used to be one Church for a 1000 years.

[@coren4739]

Jesus the carpenter, works with the Holy Woods in bearing the Cross, where the Tree of Knowledge(Tree at beginning of time) meets the Tree of Life(Tree at end of time) on the cross + beams. The Corpus on the Crucifix is the fruit, the dead fruit falls(decent into hell) becoming the seed(Paraclete) to redeem the fathers, ascends into heaven to spread the seed(Paraclete). Where the four corners of the world(universe) meets is a + or an x. To eat of the Fruit is to eat of the Eucharist and so a discerning believer will see crosses everywhere to be bared by a corpus.

[@kevinhughes3477]

where can I take the old world new world test?

[@danielpadrnos6194]

go to first-things.org, click "podcast" under the discover tab, and you'll see the button to take the light-o-meter test

[@thegoldenthread]

This was really good, one of your better entry level conversations.

[@KillerKabel]

I've been wondering about a sort of course on this Symbolic World view. Where to start, where to be in the middle and what the more high end stuff is.

[@peteroleary9447]

This was really good!

[@workingproleinc.676]

Serbian Ortodoxy i was born in SFRY

[@solomonsporchsmyrna5106]

Do you think it is possible to truly recover an old world (pre-modern worldview?) without a significant agrarian movement? Not that all have to live as agrarians, but that a large or larger portion of society has to live as agrarians to keep their particular society connected to the natural world with its larger spiritual frame?

[@PraetorClaudius]

I think it’s a natural way a child views the world before being educated, even today.

[@pu3he]

Some western monastic orders had to do their own gardening. I think having a garden dependent on the natural lifecycle can somewhat help recover that.

[@random_person6041]

💚💚💚💚

[@sdrc92126]

James Burke The Day the Universe Changed

[@johannakunze3300]

What is the book Jonathan refers to around minute 43?

[@richardmagee9928]

Anyone here watch Adam Curtis' New documentary?

[@martinjoseferreyra1961]

41:10 atheist friend story

[@anastunya]

Canadiens and Americans can just visit their own indigenous tribes to get to know people in touch with the spiritual world.

[@sturmanaskie]

It’s not the “modern world” the modern world is connected to the past, it’s postmodernism.

[@cedricburkhart3738]

What does it mean if you got a 4?

[@shadfurman]

I wouldn't call myself a Christian, I don't believe in God, but I do believe in the power of the gospel as a principled stoic life philosophy. I grew up Christian and tried to follow what I thought I was supposed to do. In my perception now, I was denying my own spirit. I was confused, almost multiple personalitied in how I acted. My reconciliation was accepting myself for who I am first, and then I learned to love the gospel again. From my perspective now, Christians have basterdized Christianity to justify sin. As an example, many if not most Christians think using the Lord's name in vain is about not using God's name as an explitive, that's not what vanity means. Not using the Lord's name in vain is about false piety, it's about hypocrisy. I think it's Christianity that's been corrupted, and teaches them to hate themselves with puritanical dogma, but if you learn to love yourself, you learn to actually love others, and then you can learn to learn the gospel. I've seen this happen to a few gay friends too. Imo hating yourself, your true self, is antichristian. It's the spirit of the antichrist. Of course we're meant to grow any improve, but to do that you have to accept yourself for who you are. You can't get to where you want to go until you know and accept where you currently are, to know which direction you should go.

[@theangryslav9115]

That sad moment when you have seen this before this upload :(

[@meofamily4]

In the two speakers' praise of the Haitians' recognition of sympathy for their spiritual mindset, there is a reason to find an argument against them. Since Haiti has been sunk, for centuries, in poverty and violence, the fact that they sympathize with "Old World" mentality is not a recommendation for the latter.

[@samory5399]

Are you a traveling person Jonathan ?

[@thomasadongo7176]

jonathan ,what's that lost city of Atlantis ? second does God lead us into temptation ?

[@Brad-RB]

While I understand and even appreciate the critique of Protestantism, is it possible to look at a world map and identify a place that is predominantly Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant that currently has its act together? It seems like Christianity as a whole has lost its ability to shape culture in a positive way.

[@ALLHEART_]

Christianity, like it's Founder, will spring to life from death. We'd do well to not underestimate that.

[@heavythingslightly]

I don’t know that any place in the world “has its act together”… for me it’s which places in the world most clearly and properly invite human creatures and Creation as a whole toward something like Theosis? Which cultures give us the best chance of finding true life? Modern scientific westernized culture? That’s bleak as far as a coherent invite to theosis goes… no? I mean we don’t even allow for public square comvos using the Theos part of theosis… ouch

[@Brad-RB]

@@heavythingslightly I really understand what you're saying. The only thing I know for sure is that I'm stuck. It is very difficult to find a body of believers were there is a deep understanding that everyone actually needs each other. I'm not sure if it is the philosophy the culture is built upon or the technolgy, maybe both, but the west has the duped by illusion that each person can be independent.

[@RydSpyn]

The more I listen to you the more I think: so many of your intuitions overlap with Jean Baudrillard's. The new world: simulation, hyperreality. Crossing the bridge and then burning it afterwards is such a central part of his philosophy, as is the fragmented self. He even has a book on strategies to upturn the "new world" called "Les stratégies fatales". Your observation that when one has to spell out a particular rule, like "being united under God", it actually expresses the opposite is found everywhere in his thinking. From the extreme heights of the criticism regarding our modern world to the down-to-earth realization that everyone of us has been shaped in such a way that it makes them almost unable to shed themselves of modern thinking and individualism - it's all there. But, he does something weird with the language he uses. He achieves a subversion, a seduction, of all the terminology that we have grown accustomed to, causing the reasoning behind it to disappear.

[@edwinjacobellis4852]

Well Pageau has said that he read all the pomo stuff in college, he says that they were right on a lot of things, but like you said, their conclusion is to burn it down, which is obviously clearly the opposite of Jonathon's

[@RydSpyn]

@@edwinjacobellis4852 Baudrillard, I think, is classified more accurately as a post-post-structuralist^^ What he has to offer is an incredibly thought-provoking description of our world today, let's say it's just fun to read. And you'll find many of the ideas expressed here, but from a slightly different point-of-view.There is a lot of valuable vocabulary for describing the world today in his philosophy. Plus, it is not so much the case that he wants to burn things down, that would be too plump. What he wants to do is subvert the world, and to subvert reason, something which I think Jonathan can agree with, considering his notion of double-inversion. There is really more overlap than the description "post-modern philosopher" might suggest. Of course, there are considerable differences between Baudrillard's account and Jonathan's, Baudrillard not being a Christian and all, but that is what makes it interesting and worth talking about, as far as I see it.

[@edwinjacobellis4852]

@@RydSpyn certainly, I definitely did not mean it in a bad way

[@RydSpyn]

@@edwinjacobellis4852 Hehe, I guess I 'm just looking to talk about this stuff with someone who's familiar with both thinkers^^

[@AugustasKunc]

+

[@one_man_community]

First comment and first view. Wait, 13 likes already?

[@evgeny9965]

Isn’t Jesus, Santa Claus as a young man??? Isn’t that what most Christians believe?

[@Boysermusic]

Nobody thinks that

[@jag3217]

Lost me when u gave in about choices

[@christophermihaly7029]

Jonathan, please talk with Eric Weinstein. I need to hear you two speak to each other!

[@d.b427]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpSvfXmJmbCNgqs

[@berrus4857]

I do drink from a goblet sometimes. Could I be a Charlemagne? :S

[@vansantos5772]

I got 8 LOL

[@margaritanava77]

Symbolic and the death of faith. God losted in symbolic logic. Still missing the mark by a new illusional mark.