On Coffee-Sipping in the Sanctuary

Ask Pastor John
Episode: 2011
Transcript: www.desiringgod.org/interview...

[@jesusiskingofmyheart]

Thankful for this conviction. Coffee can wait. God deserves our full undivided attention. He is Holy 🙏🏼❤️

[@raphfelimax2713]

It's been FINANCIALLY ROUGH for me the last 3 years but I trust God and he will carry me through as I live for him hallelujah!!

[@WelseyWalker]

This was actually my condition few months ago, but I am now financial free, have a retirement fund and I'm waiting to take delivery of my 3rd ford SUV. sometimes the lord pushes you to places and opportunities you never knew you needed. I just got to realize that trading / investment comes with a lot of benefits And I have just bought my first house through it. Currently earn as much as $10K weekly and this has improved my financial life. Thanks to Fergus Waylen!

[@inicMich-rc5wo]

That's awesome!!! I know nothing about investment and I'm keen on getting started. What are the strategies?

[@ivar766]

I'll advise you to work with a financial advisor.....Building a good investment portfolio is more complex so I would recommend you seek Fergus Waylen's support. This way you can get strategies designed to address your unique long/short-term goals and financial dreams

[@dorathystephanie7702]

Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing him been mentioned here also Didn't know he has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, i'm in my fifth trade with him and it has been super.

[@KamranKhalil-br6dk]

YES!!! That's exactly his name (Fergus Waylen) so many people have recommended highly about him and am just starting with him from Brisbane Australia

[@FatimaLasay]

I love Pastor John's reply 😊 being upset when told not to come to worship with coffee in hand because it ruins my style, means I better take a closer look at why I even come to worship at all.

[@wiscobuckeye]

What about someone who is coming after being invited but isn’t coming to worship at all because they don’t follow Jesus?

[@ricksmobileservice8246]

⁠​⁠@@wiscobuckeyefair question! ‭ I think asking ourselves are we getting too caught up or hung up on a choice of behavior, rather than asking ourselves why are we choosing to make any given decision. It’s a case by case situation (believer or not). As a believer making decisions could suggest that we relate with God, but do we actually. Just because I don’t rob a bank doesn’t mean I have a significant relationship with God. Having a cup of coffee in church doesn’t suggest I’m walking closer or further away from God either. ”So eat your meals heartily, not worrying about what others say about you-you’re eating to God’s glory, after all, not to please them. As a matter of fact, do everything that way, heartily and freely to God’s glory. At the same time, don’t be callous in your exercise of freedom, thoughtlessly stepping on the toes of those who aren’t as free as you are. I try my best to be considerate of everyone’s feelings in all these matters; I hope you will be, too.“ ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭31‬-‭33‬ MSG‬‬

[@John3_16-17]

​@@wiscobuckeye it depends really. If the person does not believe, it would be a tall order for them to understand how worship works until they come to faith. For those who are already believers when invited, I would hope that they come to worship the Lord regardless of what building they're in because the point of going to a different church shouldnt change how we glorify God

[@James-ms2mx]

Part of the problem is tradition and misconceptions. Where in the world does the Bible teach or insinuate that believers meet in a sanctuary to perform mandatory religious rites? Start with the mistaken view that we meet in a sanctuary and somehow we are standing on sacred ground. One place is just as sacred as another for the believer. And we come together for mutual edification, not to perform worship acts and ceremonies.

[@John3_16-17]

@@James-ms2mx God has ordained orderly worship, but if our hearts are not consecrated before God, it is simply a religious cult. "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." What matters most to the Lord is the condition of our hearts. If we don't worship God from a place of reverence and contrition, it isn't worship at all. But yes, our worship should be orderly

[@lindaruppert4632]

The heart of the matter is the heart.

[@freshnewday]

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love. -Pascal

[@N0UTube4U]

BOOM!!

[@jesusiskingofmyheart]

Wow, God is so good. I literally had this conviction this past Sunday when I walked into church with a Stanley bottle & a lady stopped me at the door & asked me if that was water in my cup. & Then I see this on my KZbin feed today. I’ve also been guilty of giving my daughter snacks during service to keep her quiet 😢 I am thankful for this message and grateful to be convicted to worship/attend service in true reverence and respect for the Lord 🕊️🙏🏼⛪️ He is Holy and as Christians, we should take worship seriously and give him our full undivided attention. Coffee can wait til after service 😊 Thank you!

[@Celtics20]

Snacks for children in church doesn’t bother me personally.

[@CowboyPilot79]

What is the difference in sipping water and sipping coffee?

[@jackiebunting4000]

@@CowboyPilot79Someone might need water for hydration if they have medical needs, but if it's coffee it is certainly for pleasure. No one dies of a coffee defiency. It's also treating church as someone casual thing, instead of a place of most ultimate respect and worship and adoration for our God Most High.

[@CowboyPilot79]

@@jackiebunting4000 someone "might" need water to make it through a 1 hour service? That would be a pretty niche medical need. If sipping a liquid is disrespectful then it is disrespectful despite the liquid. If that is the case then have a drink from the water fountain before you go in and suck it up for an hour. A better argument would be that something other than water has a higher potential of staining things. Just like my mom wouldn't let me take Coke into the formal living room since it was a place that was set aside.

[@youngrevival9715]

@@Celtics20are you the one cleaning it up? If so ok. If not i would be ashamed of myself

[@maxaplin4204]

So much of Christian living is about trying to get the right balance on things. It's often very easy to get things out of proportion, to let one principle eclipse another. As John Piper says, the Bible tells us, on the one hand, to treat God with great reverence, and on the other hand, to treat Jesus as a friend. We need to watch that we don't end up at one extreme or the other on this issue.

[@ikemeitz5287]

Right! This is about balance and your heart-attitude toward God, not legalism. If drinking coffee in the service is a sign of an irreverent heart, lay aside the weight. If you're not convicted by the Spirit about it, then enjoy your freedom in Christ to drink coffee!

[@fancyphantom8103]

John Piper isn't scripture and that particular quote is garbage since Jesus is God.

[@ikemeitz5287]

​@@fancyphantom8103 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. (Jn 15:13-15) You're right, Piper isn't Scripture. But Jesus DOES call those who obey his commandments his friends. We are, in fact, friends of God if we believe in him!

[@mattr.1887]

There are so many extremes and competing theologies within Christianity that I finally had to leave. You could spend a lifetime trying to get it all right and still be wrong.

[@Getoutofthewoods]

During the pandemic, we worshipped online and gradually more and more of the tasks we do to prepare for worship vanished. We didn't dress up. We didn't use the restroom before service. I did not finish my coffee before service began. I would yell up the steps, "We can't blame the train for being late today!" because there was no urgency to get there on time. Eventually, the service became much like any other TV show. We did not stand for the singing. I stopped taking notes during the sermon. And to my shame, I found myself braiding my daughter's hair during worship. On our return to in-person worship, it has been a challenge to recapture the awe Pastor John talked about. In our congregation, people often leave before the service is actually over. In the last month or so, the worship leader has struggled to get folks to stop talking so he can start worship. Our appearance has been almost as casual as it was during online worship (no pjs though). My point is, at least for my family, I think online worship was a stepping stone to casual worship, but we have been back in person for over a year. There is something else that is not right -- something deeper. I suspect that something is reverence and we need to recapture the idea that the One who literally is the Master of the Universe is interested in a relationship with me, literally one of the billions He has created. What an honor that I get to know Him and worship Him, freely.

[@xFarmerGilesOfHamx]

What makes you feel uncomfortable about braiding your daughter’s hair during the service? Curious? To me, it sounds like a tender and loving act from a mother to bond with her daughter. Something special to God.

[@xFarmerGilesOfHamx]

What makes you feel uncomfortable about braiding your daughter’s hair during the service? Curious? To me, it sounds like a tender and loving act from a mother to bond with her daughter. Something special to God.

[@Getoutofthewoods]

@@xFarmerGilesOfHamx Braiding hair during worship tells my daughter that her appearance is more important than focusing on the things of God. If she started braiding another student's hair in class she would be in big trouble for both not giving full attention to the teacher and for being disrespectful.

[@theverystones2643]

Hair braiding is against Gods will at any time … so

[@edodt4220]

That is an incredibly thoughtful comment.

[@delnayo9474]

I'm 300% with you, Pastor John. I love what RC Sproul teaches about this, even how we dress to church, referring to people who encounter God like Mosses, Isaac, and Abraham.

[@Seventy5Percent]

This is a fascinating insight. I lead the Coffee Ministry at my church, so this is really good to hear. Coffee in the sanctuary can take one of two forms: 1. The kind Piper notes here - come in late, grab a cup of coffee, stand while everyone worships drink in hand, listen to some guy speak while you enjoy your drink in a sort of public morning routine before you leave early to beat traffic. 2. Coffee can be an opportunity to show love to those who need it, especially when the ministry is actively serving it to those new to a church on a cold Sunday morning. Furthermore, we have multiple services with many serving before they even sit for service, and coffee allows us to wake up and truly focus more on the word that is being taught. Put away while we sing praises to the king, but warming and waking us as we study every verse of the Word of God.

[@James-ms2mx]

When the early church met in homes, it seems like the learning was centered around a whole meal just like Jesus was prone to doing. Now we tend to think of church as a sacred ritualistic activity and it’s created a more formal and less intimate experience between believers.

[@nathanielotto258]

​@@James-ms2mxThat was my thought exactly.

[@ChroniclesofaRunawayBride]

This is so good! I watched a video of someone who testified that serving in the coffee ministry taught him how to love people the way God does. I think he's a pastor now!

[@jackiebunting4000]

Why not hot water with lemon? Caffeine is a drug a lot in America are addicted to. Our bodies are the temple of God.

[@stevenwurtz7225]

Very very strange lukewarm selfish way of NOT giving up your cofffee

[@Endee21]

Wow wow wow I can’t believe I’m hearing this message this morning. I was literally thinking about this as I sat through church service yesterday morning watching people enter the Sanctuary, a Holy place with coffees in their hands as if they are entering a hair salon, the office, or friends house. We are entering a holy place worshipping a Holy God so let’s treat it as such. It is not an ordinary place we are entering.

[@amangaming5760]

“Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.” (John 4:21 ESV) Jesus did not answer the implied question immediately. First, he foreshadowed a new day: Jesus declared, ‘Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.’ The question of the correct place to worship would soon be irrelevant, for the times were about to change. Worship would no longer be localized in a sacred place. This should caution us about thinking the worship of God is tied to sacred places today, whether that be in church buildings, holy cities (Jerusalem, Rome or Canterbury) or holy sites (the Church of the Nativity, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre etc.). It is good to visit these places to gain historic perspective and increase our sense of the reality of what we believe, but to think that one’s worship of God is more acceptable in such places, or that we are somehow closer to God in these places, is to deny the truth of Jesus’ teaching in this and the following verses. [Tyndale Commentary Vol 4: Jn, p. 135] “Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.” (Romans 14:3 ESV) “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭17‬ ‭ESV‬‬ I would say, listen to your own pastor on this subject..

[@beckypetersen2680]

I'm going to say that it is "holy" as in the definition means "set apart" as meaning that during the service. Our building has one main room, and one small room for a fellowship room where we meet. So, our auditorium is also the meeting place of the Bible club, children's craft time, etc. That saying, I'm very uncomfortable with the casual idea of bringing coffee into the service. But calling our meeting room "holy" is really a stretch (at least to me). it is where we go to focus on what we're doing, however. We do coffee and snacks after church in our fellowship room'/kitchen.

[@stevenwurtz7225]

I got so uncomfortable seeing baseball caps... they remove hats for the national athem

[@Endee21]

@@stevenwurtz7225this.

[@judgedredd31]

Know what’s a bigger issue is people leaving 5-10 minutes before the end of service to avoid traffic, fellowship, the benediction, etc. THAT is difficult to enforce.

[@jesusiskingofmyheart]

I agree! This!

[@hosannayeshua]

It’s a heart posture. Man can’t enforce it but man can surely hope that men like Piper can wake them up from the folly of it…

[@user-vi3jd7mm1k]

i attend a very small house church of only a few families in a ranch home. at the end of nearly every ‘service’ one family walks out early, i think for sports. last time i attended, our newest family did the same. even when my athletic stepson attended service before he was emancipated, we never left early for anything.

[@kristinbrennenstuhl6520]

Thank you pastor John. That helps explain the uneasiness in my spirit when I reach for my coffee cup during worship service. No more!

[@mattwalter6207]

You don't need to let John Pipers legalism give you shame

[@hosannayeshua]

@@mattwalter6207it’s called reverence. And he asked a question that is up to each listener to ponder and meditate on with Christ. When you truly revere His holiness, when you fall in love with Christ for real, you get real about to the relationship. Your comment may indicate you haven’t met Him at all. May you meet Him soon.

[@kristinbrennenstuhl6520]

@@mattwalter6207 I don’t live by legalism. I try to be guided by the Holy Spirit who is showing me that my coffee during worship is a distraction (to myself and others) from that special time and special joy of meeting with my Lord and Savior to share how much I love Him. When I’m having intimate moments and conversations with my spouse, I don’t want or need a cup of coffee by my side. I’m seeing now that my coffee drinking in church is just a social crutch……more of a modern social legalism.

[@AnHebrewChild]

It's so interesting how people are given to outsource their thinking to politicians, pastors, gurus, guides... I'm not judging. It's just, for me, an endlessly fascinating phenomenon... it's interesting to think about all the things that motivate this.

[@chriscagle4226]

Lol

[@maxaplin4204]

Very helpful teaching. I agree with John Piper that when the church meets on a Sunday it doesn't feel right to be sipping a coffee during the service. After the service, by all means have coffee together. But there is so often a lack of reverence and awe in corporate worship these days, and having coffee in the service just makes this worse.

[@legomegaman101]

Yeah, it felt like I was one of the only people that actually agreed with his sentiment on Twitter when he posted it. That being said, the memes it generated were hilarious.

[@noahhecker6672]

I get off work on Saturday really late, so when Sunday morning rolls around I’m absolutely exhausted. I’m having my coffee in church, I’d rather drink it here and there and be awake enough to focus on God than be falling asleep before him

[@barasyrne]

I second this, coffee helps me focus rather than spacing out.

[@animaticToshiue]

If I can, I try to drink coffee before the service starts. But if I can't, I would have to drink it during the service. But thank God that it's not just to relax but to actually focus and not fall asleep. Coffee with notes and bible in hand I guess display seriousness in listening and studying God's Word. And, like other food, if received with thankfulness, is something that is clean and not defiled God. I thank Him for the means to stay awake!💖 And I thank God for John Piper's concern about this, not for the sake of coffee per se but the most important thing, the pleasure of who God is that even food fades in comparison to.

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

What's wrong with falling asleep in the arms of The LORD? If you're too tired to go to service then common sense should tell you to not go if you're that worried about falling asleep. If you think that it's okay to not give God your full attention, then that's another thing.

[@jtika1978]

Same although I always finish mine on the drive because I’m usually guzzling it 😂

[@lornabrown-ray4044]

In my opinion, yours is a case where God is particularly tender toward your desire to be in church, worshiping and serving. I think God is looking at our motives and heart posture. Maybe some of us can drink coffee there and maybe some of us should not, based on our motives and where our focus is. I am encouraged in knowing that 100% of the proceeds from coffee sales at my church go to missions.

[@hosannayeshua]

Beautiful message. May God bless you John Piper and grant you peace. Your messages are always just as radical as Christ’s. We aren’t to look like the world. Too often we want to blend in with the world. Dust your feet…& leave each to their fate. Those who get it will get Him, those who don’t… Lord have mercy on us all.

[@thejoyoftruth6310]

For sure, when we will behold his Majesty and glory, we will not be meeting to meet people casually in church but to meet a King with whom will will not have a time to sip coffee in His presence for we will be standing in awe and reverence before and in Him.

[@melanie_mouse]

What an incredible response. Beautiful. It’s why I find myself turning to the Orthodox faith - a major component lacking in the churches I had attended was deep reverence.

[@josephpimentel9451]

I agree with Piper on this. Thanks 🙏

[@Broken_Berean]

I used to attend a church that encouraged people to not only bring coffee into the sanctuary during worship but to bring in bacon cheese grits that were served up every Sunday in the lobby.

[@BlissfulCrafter]

I have never seen this channel but oh my gosh I absolutely love, love your description of the presence of the Lord!! He is who He says He is. Thank you so much for this, I truly mean it. On a night when it seems part of the Body of Christ is tearing itself apart, I was ready to take my weary mind and burdened heart to bed, and had this tab open. Ready to jump in on a hearty discussion of the lack of respect for Him in the sanctuary, I found this video and,opened it. This was a gift to me from the Lord, where your words of worship and awesome, amazing description of His majesty and glory poured water on the parched part of my heart and filled my spirit anew with love for this awesome God we serve. I can't thank you enough.

[@carltonferebeejr9572]

Pastor John's passionate urgency to experience and enjoy God is an inspiration and a great wooing to enter the holiest of holies.❤

[@krissudberry]

Thank you Pastor❤

[@mestresabio]

I am so looking forward to the continuation on this series.

[@josemg8556]

Thank you pastor for this teachings. I realized of all those coffee mugs sips in the form of thoughts in my mind during the worship that represent total absence of reverence.

[@jesusbeloved3953]

Pastor, I completely understand your statement. I have had what you’re describing. It’s never been in a worship service in church, but in my own bedroom. I had worship music on, was pondering the blessedness of God and was so overcome I got on my face in praise and worship. If someone can experience that in a room full of 50-3000 people, God bless them!

[@pamelar5868]

I appreciate this comment very much❤.

[@mikehamel5984]

I am fine with people not feeling it is appropriate for them to drink coffee during a service, and I am also fine with people who feel like they can worship their creator while drinking coffee. Strangely enough, the thing about listening to this interview that bothered me was that I had to stare at the word "sanctuary" the whole time. The room that we meet in is NOT the Sanctuary. It is an auditorium. Those of us who have accepted Jesus as our Savior and therefore have the Holy Spirit living inside of us, WE are the Sanctuary. The Almighty God lives inside of us. I know it may seem like a small and insignificant thing, but how we think about God's presence, either being at that place that I go to once a week on Sunday, or He lives in me 24/7/365, has a big impact on how we live our lives and how we interact with Him.

[@maxaplin4204]

I agree. To refer to a room in a building as a sanctuary isn't helpful. It's putting too much emphasis on the value of that room.

[@HenryHobson-uc2bk]

He who dwells in the shelter of the most high will rest in the shadow of the almighty

[@danielvalderrabano9566]

Mmm preach it, brother

[@sugarspice7768]

I agree. It's a point of preference. Be respectful of the preferences/traditions of the particular church. There is nothing wrong with drinking coffee. Consider the early church. I imagine they had church potluck style most of the time. Not to mention food & drink are mention several times during the times Jesus is teaching or performing miracles. On the other hand, everything should be done in an orderly way. It's about finding a balance without being legalistic.

[@rebekahchalkley3252]

So in other words, every sip of coffee I ever take goes into the sanctuary!

[@JosephAlanMeador]

Look, I love coffee. A cup of coffee before church, sure. We even have a meet and greet before service and coffee is always there. But when you step into the sanctuary to worship the Lord, don’t you want to give him your best? Can’t another cup wait?

[@markb3786]

Have you seen the stage shows and insane dancing taking place in sanctuaries these days? Music should be in the back of the church so that the glory is for God and not for man.

[@JosephAlanMeador]

Well, king David did dance naked in the streets... maybe not the best example lol, I guess I'm not against dancing if someone just wants to praise God that way. But yes I think reverence should be prioritized over the big production that church services can bloat into. The body itself should be together on this, but it's of course between each worshipper and the Lord. @@markb3786

[@TheAlaskaMom]

I agree wholeheartedly. If my container of tea that I bring into the sanctuary for my chronic cough is a distraction, I will discontinue it or sit in the back. If that is also a distraction I will have to sit in a separate room where I won’t be able to enjoy the elbow to elbow fellowship of corporate worship, but if it distracts from the reverence and wonder due our God. It’s a small sacrifice.

[@lszujo73]

in many cases,"sipping coffee" during church service is rather a reflection on the kind of services we are conducting.....

[@doublecutnut753]

Yep. If I can sip coffee at my favorite concert venue and I can sip coffee in my college lecture hall, then it only follows that I can sip coffee in my church service.

[@DCFNETWORKS]

Thank you

[@marytervo5560]

Thank you! So true❤

[@eddyswiderczuk7340]

Thank you Pastor John P. Life an Death! Psalm 49: In Jesus Name Amen.

[@bnjmnwst]

As someone who has taken my coffee into service, I agree with this message. It's truly imperative that we keep the main thing the main thing & keep our eyes on the prize. The question is, to what are you giving your attention. THAT is what you are worshipping. If your mind is on something other than God during worship service, take a moment and really think about why you're even there. The result of that self-examination should be that we make a new commitment to focusing on Him in worship, if nowhere else. There are so many things to distract us, throughout our lives. Our purpose, our SOLE reason for being, is to worship God & help bring others into fellowship with Him. That's so difficult to focus on, because we're all pulled in so many directions at all times. Some of us worship THAT, that excitement, that stress & strain & challenge. We need to get our minds & hearts right, in right order, so that God is primary, in every way. Pastor John is correct.

[@seraphmcgregor927]

Having an Eastern outlook on the sacred things, I would agree with John Piper. I attend two worship services each Sunday. One in the morning where I preach and then I drive 40 kilometers to attend the other service in the afternoon where I just go and worship. It is tiring, at times I do feel sleepy. I do carry my coffee along and love sipping it before and after the service. But I wouldn't dare touch it during the service.

[@alaskaminnie644]

Curious why you don’t worship and fellowship at the church you preach at?

[@seraphmcgregor927]

@@alaskaminnie644 I do worship and fellowship where I preach. But I don't know why my Lord's Day feels so incomplete unless I have sat in the pew peacefully, sung those hymns and have myself heard the Word of God preached.

[@GNew6393]

God and the Holy Spirit will call a person into a right state of worship if they are seeking and open to His guidance. There are many more battles in spiritual development to be discussed other than someone holding a cup of coffee in the service. Unless you know that person well and can correct them in love, then keep your own eyes on God and worship.

[@helendeacon7637]

Amen! Thank you Pastor John. These cautions are necessary mild general rebukes. Martyn Lloyd Jones was known to stop congregational singing that was out of place. The fuller, deeper vision, the preaching, the leaders encouragement that we might have a high view of worship restored to us. The call to pray earnestly for revival is here, isn't it? I don't Tweet but thank you Pastor John for "tweeting" what you did. Please let's downplay the trappings of modernity- it's in our manner of speaking too- so that the Lord Jesus would be honoured, so that our gathering would be truly God-glorifying.

[@MinTimothyTate]

I totally understand why this topic would surface. Over the years, I myself have noticed people being "common" with the things of GOD in churches. The "dumbdowning" of the AWE/REVERENCE of GOD. I think of Moses at the burning bush. "You are standing on holy ground". Isaiah stood in God's presence and instantly new he was not like God. Ananias and Sapphira soon found out they weren't on God's level. I agree with John. In the back of our minds, we should always have a since of AWE/REVERENCE when it comes to God and our worship (relationship with him). PS: I recently seen dogs in the sanctuary at a church.

[@jtika1978]

Oh my goodness not dogs 😩 now that’s very much over the line (unless it’s a legit service dog, not an emotional support dog) & i love dogs.

[@FatimaLasay]

The reverence and awe for our God who is a consuming fire is what fills my whole being since my conversion in June last year. Previously, I admired those who say 'our pal Jesus' because I considered Jesus as a non-deity prophet. Such a misunderstanding of the triune God might also be what lies behind the casualness of such things as the 'Jesus culture.'

[@maxaplin4204]

Reverence and awe for God as a consuming fire is great. But so too is seeing Jesus as a friend. In John 15:14-15 Jesus says to his disciples: 'You are my friends if you do what I command you. I no longer call you slaves, because a slave doesn’t know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything I have heard from my Father.'

[@roadkingrocks5067]

Spot on!

[@praisingirl]

I have always felt that since our worship services are about an hour, can’t we even go 1 hour without a cup of coffee to comfort us?. I want to keep my focus on Jesus and not keeping track of a cup of coffee. Jesus is my comfort. Yes coffee is fine in foyer or Sunday school . It also helps the persons responsible for cleaning the sanctuary, no cups or spills for them.

[@kikiuniki3406]

I have honestly never thought twice about having a drink in church- coffee or tea or water etc.

[@storyaboutmosquitoes9441]

I have sometimes but not too deeply. I will leave it behind now though and focus on God more. Nobody has ever said anything about it before. I don’t want to be too casual and forget reverence. I want to be reverent.

[@wesleycollins2939]

I'm against sipping coffee in the sanctuary... especially when it is Folgers.

[@legomegaman101]

Lol. Hey! There is worse than folgers

[@doublecutnut753]

Especially when its in a stainless steel tumbler and you have concrete or stone floor. It can too easily be mistaken for one of those Catholic bells when it falls over and goes... DING DING. Happens every Sunday, the few catholics who attend with their spouses who have fallen asleep during the hour long sermon wake up frantically and start crossing themselves.

[@BarbaraBrown-og7mz]

For me, I always fall back on what does God says about Himself. Numbers 20: 12 the story of Moses and Aaron at the Water at Meribah where Moses rebuked the people and struck the rock twice rather than doing as God had instructed. This is my go to for how I will approach God on a Sunday morning, (I put this on no one else). God speaking, "Because you did not believe in ME, to uphold ME as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you will not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them." I sit in the midst of coffee drinkers and phone watchers, so be it. But for 1 1/2 hours on a Sunday morning I will set aside me and worship a Holy, Holy, Holy God understanding this is who He thinks He is.

[@trainwellracewell]

Our pastor many times has a cup of coffee with him in the pulpit. Lots of pastors have a water bottle or glass of water with them. Would PJ be against the coffee in the pulpit while approving the glass of water. As Paul said, whether you eat or drink, do it all for the glory of God. We can still have a wonderful experience with the Lord with or without a cup of coffee in hand

[@rachaelmondo7672]

i didn’t think of this. interesting point. Maybe APJ can do a second video and respond to this.

[@kpeezy776]

This discussion is strange. Drink coffee wherever you want. Worship wherever you are ❤️

[@Yesica1993]

Water is for dry throat when speaking/singing. We always had water when I was on the worship team. It was for a PURPOSE. Coffee has no purpose.

[@trainwellracewell]

@@Yesica1993This is legalism. Coffee can be used for dry throat as well

[@Yesica1993]

Unless you have an actual health issue, you don't have a dry throat You can survive in the pews for 30-60 minutes without water. @@trainwellracewell

[@ishawntellvandenberg1061]

👏👏👏Well said 👍..

[@kengy1991]

Excellent response. It’s about respecting God’s house. I don’t mind people bringing coffee into service but you shouldn’t be leaving during the service to get more…

[@andrewmattiewalter]

Do you leave service if you have to pee or do you hold it and pee your pants in reverence to God?

[@PrairieDogFan]

​@@andrewmattiewalter 😂😂

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

​@@andrewmattiewalter Go the bathroom before and you won't have to worry

[@xprxfamoux]

This is one reason why I'm not a reformed Baptist anymore. Too much focus on matters that do not matter in the grand scheme of things. It's exhausting, especially for a new believer.

[@maxaplin4204]

How we approach God in corporate worship does matter.

[@mattwalter6207]

​@maxaplin4204 how does coffee impact how we approach God?? Legalism kills Christianity, read the New Testament

[@maxaplin4204]

​@@mattwalter6207 Did you listen to what John Piper said in the video or are you just commenting anyway? The reason I ask is because most of the video seeks to answer your question. If you didn't listen to his words, I would suggest that you should do so before commenting. Outward actions often relate closely to what is going on in our hearts. I am sure that many Christians who drink coffee in corporate worship do so because they are expecting to have a relaxed, laid back time in church services. But I agree with Piper that we shouldn't expect this. Instead it should be much more of an edge-of-your-seat time in the presence of almighty God. So I would see drinking coffee to often be a symptom of a wrong approach to corporate worship - essentially a symptom rather than a cause. And to say that something outward is a symptom of something wrong that is inward has nothing at all to do with legalism.

[@AnHebrewChild]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@mattwalter6207 It is just like us to make rules where God has made none, to forbid what God has not forbidden. All this while ignoring many clear commands God has given. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. The first century scribes, indeed all the Jews, followed a custom of carefully washing before meals as, so their reasoning went, the communal blessing & eating are done before God and therefore to be approached with (their definition of) reverence -- not in a relaxed manner. They held that not properly washing showed a want of divine reverence. They chided the disciples for what they perceived was a lack of understanding of the holy. It was reverence that the elder's traditions were said to promote. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said.... BUT YE SAY... Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. < Where God has not forbid a thing, we have no right to forbid others. Where God has placed no burden, we are not (never ever) to bind others "with burden's grievous to be borne and lay them upon men's shoulders." But we are to follow _his_ commandments circumspectly. Deu6:17 And his commandments are not grievous. His yoke is easy and his burden is light. Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

[@nataliamiranda7475]

Great point which begs the question for me, how would I feel if God came to me sipping from his coffee cup...🤫

[@happy777abc]

I have never liked the coffee in church thing. Forgive my judgement. It's so unsacred, and dishonoring. So glad to hear this video. I realized I thought how pathetic it was to allow it, because I've had so many encounters with our Lord. Deeply personal, life transforming encounters. I pray this for everyone.

[@kpeezy776]

Instead of telling people who are confused by how Coffee drinking is in conflict with reverence that they are “Christians who haven’t experienced God deep enough”, maybe look at why you are so concerned with something as nominal as drinking Coffee in a certain room. Worship as quoted in Hebrews wasn’t located in a specific room. In fact it was required from our life. Worship isn’t just singing, it’s our sacrifice of our daily life to God. Worship everywhere, everyday, with or without Coffee because God is great!

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

Yes and no. Of course we are to live our entire lives everyday for God, but having a specific place to worship Him in has always existed. And in that place we are there to worship, praise, and give glory to Him and absolutely to do nothing else. We are not there for fun, or for our daily activities. We are there to be serious in prayer and worship. How focused on God are you if you're just casually taking sips of coffee when you're suppose to be praying, or listening to The Holy Spirit speak through a Pastor during the Sermon? If you're not giving 100% of your focus to God, then you are not being 100% focused on God, and that's a problem. God doesn't call us to half worship Him, but to worship Him with All of our heart. I am Roman Catholic, and if someone was to come to Church and just casually sip coffee during Mass it would be absolutely incredibly disrespectful to God and His Son. We are there to worship and honour Him. So leave the coffee outside. It will still be there when the service is over. And if you need caffeine that badly, then excuse yourself and take it outside. However this is still taking your focus away from God, so I wouldn't even recommend doing that.

[@tavo2422]

I've seen people drinking coffee in the sanctuary but I've never really thought anything about it. As for me, something would be off if I was bowing and praying or listening to the sermon while taking a drink of coffee.

[@thecuriousoutsider]

The coffee in worship services is a product of the levels of wealth and luxury we have in some parts of the world. One of the byproducts is we have become soft, unfocused, and undisciplined. The wealth and luxury is its own form of tyranny against our souls.

[@chrisajr1994]

What do you mean? Coffee is super cheap to make and can be found in some of the least affluent places in the world lol

[@Oneforall86]

Coffee and fellowship often go hand in hand even in some very poor congregations.

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

Amen

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

​@chrisajr1994 You might want to re-read OP's comment. They didn't say coffee in general, but said coffee IN worship service.

[@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.]

​@@ProjectTwentySeven17 (Facepalm). You missed the entire point of the comment.

[@chriscagle4226]

The 11th commandment is “thou shant sip coffee in the building that houses thine Sunday service”

[@doublecutnut753]

But why would you sip coffee before you drink the blood of Christ? I mean that's the point of the service. What else would be "served" in your service?

[@lulufavs4519]

It’s not about the building where the service is? It’s about being REVERENT TO OUR GOD!!!!!

[@chriscagle4226]

God is everywhere. So anytime you sip coffee you are in the presence of God. Is God more formal at a Sunday service or something?

[@doublecutnut753]

@@chriscagle4226 As the Psalmist says, "Where shall be go from your Spirit, or where shall I flee from your presence." He also says, "Better is one day in Your courts than a thousand elsewhere." So there does seem to be a difference in God's presence at large and God's presence in the particular communion of his people.

[@chriscagle4226]

@@doublecutnut753 you’d have to find evidence of this in the New Testament because Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and established the priesthood of the believer which took away all the temple crap…if we were Old Testament Israelites then I could see the argument making sense but there’s zero evidence of any formalities for NT meetings

[@dalesteiner2380]

Oh darn it I spilled my coffee on the church floor carpeting that may never come out and then we get agitated and possibly miss a key point in the sermon that the pastor worked on for who knows how long coffee stays out and water spilled on the carpet normally that doesn’t stain depending on what kind of water you’re drinking I think a lot of times people know the answers the questions they just want somebody else to give them a different answer than they already have just saying I love Jesus he loves me. I feel like when I’m in church. God and Jesus are talking to me through the pastors voice, so I’m not gonna just respect that you can think what you want but that’s my, thoughts blessings to everyone that commented and the poster as well

[@betsyharnish6962]

I completely agree about the sacred importance of the sanctuary and the worship service. The only point of the Sunday service is worshiping our awesome God. A person might want to do some introspection if we cannot spend an hour or so worshipping God without a cup of coffee or a bottle of water. I feel the same way about those churches that allow members of the congregation to stand up and speak regarding thoughts, concerns, prayer requests. I completely think these things are important but much better suited to Sunday School or weekday Bible study.

[@Endee21]

Pastor John could you also talk about people who show up late to church and disturb those who are worshipping?

[@matthewciappara6506]

Every morning my routine is, two pieces of toast and one cup of coffee, as l read into God's words. And l have this Every morning for around five years.

[@maxaplin4204]

But there is something special about coming together as a church. Just because something is appropriate when we are on our own doesn't necessarily mean that it's appropriate in corporate worship.

[@gypsyroveradventures6133]

Amen!!

[@apaul1950]

Great answer to the subject, I always felt uneasy seeing people sipping any kind of drinks during the service.(water for the one preaching I never felt bad.)

[@bagmediachannel]

Amen.

[@sidwhiting665]

I appreciate the desire for awe and reverence with worshipping God. So to that end, I say, "Bravo....good talk." Before we get too far in, let's first consider that Jesus will be drinking with us at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. "I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Matthew 26:29. So apparently not all sipping is irreverent. Some can be. But not all MUST be. I place this issue into adiaphora: stuff we can disagree about without it being essential. I sit in the front row, Bible open on my lap, listening to the message, devouring it into the depths of my soul. I approach God with awe and reverence any time I enter into his presence. During the message, I will take a small sip on a coffee a few times. If some random person wants to label that as "irreverent", okay. But I guarantee I can find a dozen things the average churchgoer does that are ALSO "irreverent" based on outward appearance, and I bet I can find it in your church too. The difference is this: while I COULD harp on it... I choose not to. I will not raise a charge against Christ's bride the church. Unless the act is expressly condemned in God's Word, or if someday I can peer into the depths of their soul and know they aren't in awe of his presence (I can't know this).... I will leave the matter to Christ to judge. His elect aren't If a church has a problem with people being inappropriately casual, it's due to their teaching and preaching. Coffee sipping in just a symptom, as is people playing on their phones or sleeping during the sermon or (fill in the blank). While there is no "party" atmosphere in our church, we do celebrate and sing joyfully, which to some church-goers probably looks like party, because they haven't sang a hymn/worship song with gusto or raised a hand to the sky in praise in 40+ years. We are specifically COMMANDED to praise God with our whole being. If I were to go to most churches... would I see the things listed below? Would I care about coffee sipping if I didn't see the following? Towdah. (Exodus 27:6-7, Romans 12:1) ... "sacrifice;" expressed in Mosaic Law offerings, Jesus’ example of being a “living sacrifice” to God Yadah. (Exodus 17:11, 1 Timothy 2:8) ... "Lifting of hands;” reaching out to God, declaring our dependence on Him and proclaiming our love for our Father" Barak/Barouch. (Exodus 34:8, Psalm 5:7) ... "Bowing;” giving reverence to God in recognition of His holiness and sovereignty over everything that lives. Shabach. (Psalm 47:1, Isaiah 12:6) ... "Shout;” to lift up your voice and praise God with all of one’s might. Zamah. (Psalm 150:3-5, Ephesians 5:19) ... "Sing/play instruments;” playing music to express joy in God’s presence. Halal. (2 Samuel 6:14, Psalm 149:3) ... "Celebrate/boast/rave;” root word for “hallelujah,” to express praise for God through physical motion. Tehillah. (Psalm 22:25, Isaiah 61:1-3)... "Sing/dance/praise;” to use many ways to praise God (all of the above!)

[@ikemeitz5287]

I suspect that pastor Piper would agree with you on all points here. "Coffee sipping in just a symptom" is, if I understand the APJ correctly, exactly his point. Drinking coffee can be a symptom of a heart that's flippant toward God, and if so, the weight should be laid aside. In me personally, I don't feel convicted that I'm flippant toward God in the service when I look at the Bible on my phone and drink coffee. I think Piper was using coffee-sipping as a microcosm to discuss irreverence toward God in churches. Not as a one-to-one consequence of irreverence, but as a potential sign of it. He's asking us to examine our hearts, not adding law to the gospel.

[@coreydallmeyer67]

It's a hesrt issue. Doesn't automatically mean irreverent. God looks at the heart, and man sees the outside.

[@scouseaussie1638]

This is a storm in a tea cup.

[@N0UTube4U]

I'd rather see someone in church with coffee than not in church at all. This is not a debate about the resurrection of Jesus. It's a cup of coffee. come as you are! and wear your shorts while you're at it :)

[@emmanuel5566]

"It's an American thing" or "Heart posture is what matters" or "that's legalism" etc I'm from a different country living in the US now. And those are the responses I've gotten from some well-learned Bible believing Christian friends when similar notion questions are raised It's so nice to hear Pastor John not pushing it away as a cultural thing but a Biblical thing to consider

[@ricksmobileservice8246]

I think asking ourselves are we getting too caught up or hung up on a choice of behavior, rather than asking ourselves why are we choosing to make any given decision. It’s a case by case situation (believer or not). As a believer making decisions could suggest that we relate with God, but do we actually. Just because I don’t rob a bank doesn’t mean I have a significant relationship with God. Having a cup of coffee in church doesn’t suggest I’m walking closer or further away from God either. ”So eat your meals heartily, not worrying about what others say about you-you’re eating to God’s glory, after all, not to please them. As a matter of fact, do everything that way, heartily and freely to God’s glory. At the same time, don’t be callous in your exercise of freedom, thoughtlessly stepping on the toes of those who aren’t as free as you are. I try my best to be considerate of everyone’s feelings in all these matters; I hope you will be, too.“ ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭31‬-‭33‬ MSG

[@cirr3587]

❤

[@eddyswiderczuk7340]

Thank you Pastor John P. What good thing must i do to get Eternal life? Matthew 19:16-30 Amen .

[@soloscriptura]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved

[@Spencer.Spears]

As with all things that aren’t explicitly explained in scripture, what’s important is your heart. For some people, sipping coffee in church may come off as distracting, while for others it may be a total non factor. You shouldn’t do things that take away from your connection with God, regardless of where you are. You also shouldn’t judge other people, certainly not about wether or not they bring a cup of coffee into the sanctuary

[@sherlockhomeless7138]

I'm not sure if I understand. In our church we do drink coffee after the church service. But that's in a seperate room and after the church service has ended. Is that what this is about? Or is it about litterally sipping your coffee while following the church service?

[@LibertyFixxxer]

Every single time I go to my church I experience God's presence. Our church is very bible believing. When John Piper says "in worship" does he mean the entire service, or just singing in worship?

[@19Adey]

The entire service

[@maxaplin4204]

I'm sure he will mean the entire service.

[@mattwalter6207]

John is legalistic about everything, it's exhausting

[@Julie_Truly_in_KY]

Wonder about sitting in service with young ones…I mean, their constant moving about, need of sippy cup, snack, just to keep them quiet…do we not allow babes in services so we and others encounter this awesome interaction?? Just curious.

[@j-r-hill]

I understand that coffee is not the issue, balancing reverence and come-as-you-are-ness is the issue. I also think John is talking about showing up to church on Sunday with a drink and snack and an attitude like a moviegoer preparing to be entertained and consuming... But for me _providing_ coffee, tea, water, etc in a worship service is not mostly about an individual's response to God, but about the about hospitality and love and service. Ask the sleep-deprived, running-late, exasperated parents of young children whether coffee is a hindrance or a help on a Sunday morning.

[@scotthutchens1556]

My church only allows coffee and other drinks in a section of chairs off to the side of the main sanctuary but not in the actual pews in the main part. When it’s done this way I can’t see it being a huge issue, but I don’t think it should be in the main sanctuary and not just because of spilling it. I think that would be in bad taste. When I was searching for a church, I went to a local mega-church (not nationally known) that has a traditional service in a real sanctuary and a contemporary service in a gym with a stage and they allowed coffee in the gym room. Was a big seeker-friendly church that was “giving the people what they want” with a dozen huge coffee urns and many flavored syrups, half & half, everything you could think of. Wasn’t the fellowship for me.

[@rodrigodanzi1145]

I feel that small churches deal with this much better than big ones, cuse Megachurch causes a sense of depersonalization

[@nereida116]

Matthew 22:34 “Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. With ALL your HEART... With ALL your SOUL... With ALL your MIND.. ✝️ FOR ME IT MEANS: LOVE, PASSION... WITH SPIRITUAL & NATURAL INTELLECT.✝️

[@dianacuster5628]

I have been going to a church that recently installed a coffee shop in the "foyer" of the church. I have struggled with this because it makes me feel like this is to progressive. A coffee shop in the church just seems wrong. How do you lift your hands in praise when you are holding a cup of coffee.

[@thomaslai5303]

On the contrary, I think the zeitgeist has been the lacking of rules causes all these casualness. And you don’t have to go all the way to super high church to fix these, it is not black and white, but the outward expression that the lord is present in the very physical space is a must in my opinion. “But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. (1 Corinthians14:40 NIV)”

[@Mike-gz4xn]

Church is not about experience, feelings or magnetism felt that removing a coffee cup can add.

[@-Godtube]

Sounds like what he said here made sense but the tweet was, “Can we reasses whether Sunday coffee sipping in the sanctuary fits?” Not hard to see how that caused a great debate since it really is questioning whether believers should sip coffee in the sanctuary or not... The tune seemed to change in this video as he addresses a deeper matter of a casual, entertaining atmosphere churches have progressed more and more into over the years where he's not saying its wrong to drink coffee in church but to be aware of what church has become or the manner in which we are approaching God. The tweet seems like not the best choice of words to portray what he meant although he explained it well in this video

[@nereida116]

Yes! It's a lack of understanding Who and What YHWH is! It's a SERIOUS LACK of sincere reflection, TRUE BIBLE KNOWLEDGE, meditation, wisdom, honor, respect, and appropriate Spiritual AND Earthly protocol. It is EGO and SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS at its worse... A TOTAL LOSS OF HOLY PERSPECTIVE!

[@Topcat1952]

In agreement with the "casual" level of reverence issue. Compare today's attitude with how the Jews in Exodus were to prepare to meet God on the mountain. While my church is doctronally correct, before the service we don't have a sanctuary but a fellowship hall. I have great difficulty praying before the service because the people are talking so loud. We have 30 seconds of quiet time provided before worship begins. Not enough! The way people dress, drink coffee, etc. indicates most Christians have no awareness of God's holiness and Who they are worshipping. I am usually not ready to enter into worship until 10 minutes after the service starts because I am so upset. I am grateful to Sproul's "Holiness of God" book and similar materials.

[@maxaplin4204]

I have a lot of sympathy for what you say. But I notice that you mention the way people dress. From what else you say, I expect that you would probably object to people dressing too casually. If so, I would disagree with that. One thing that I want is for non-Christians in the wider community to feel welcome to join us on a Sunday. And that includes the poorest of the poor - for example, men who don't own a suit. It is very embarrassing to be in a place where you are dressed differently from everyone else, whether over- or underdressed. But if everyone goes to church services dressed in suits, it is very unlikely that those who don't own a suit would join us. Not only would they have to venture into an unfamiliar environment but they would have to look foolish to do so. I can't stand the thought of people choosing not to join us on a Sunday because they don't own a suit. That is why I dress casually for church services. For me, this is the most important factor on this topic.

[@Topcat1952]

@@maxaplin4204 I fully understand, and I would not hold people to a dress code. There are some, however, who aree not poor and dress casually because, as Piper says, do not understand God's holiness. Certainly the church should welcome any Christian, no matter their economic situation. My biggest issue is proper preparation for worship. I am not concerned with symptoms as much as a heart attitude. If the person cannot afford to dress well, that is not as important as their heart attitude.

[@maxaplin4204]

@@Topcat1952 I agree that the motivation of many to dress casually has nothing to do with wanting to welcome people and is basically caused by a lack of reverence. I own a couple of suits but I wear jeans for the reason I mentioned in my earlier comment. What you say about preparation for worship and heart attitude is on point. I do find this quite difficult, though, because I will sit down beside someone who I haven't seen for a week and I will immediately be asked how my week has been. It seems rude not to answer properly. But I do find myself challenged by what you say.

[@Topcat1952]

@@maxaplin4204 At our church, there is a place for that in the back (narthax I think its called), but its too easy to be spontaneous rather than say "let's go to the back" or just talk quietly. Again, its about knowing who God is and that you are about to worship him. As for clothing, I heard a preacher once ask "would you dress like that for a job interview?" Since then, I try to dress in a way that helps me recognize who God truly is. I don't own a suit. I just use a jacket with ties (putting on a tie, itself, is a chore for my old bones). I'll do that as long as I can. But that is my preference. You must do what you are comfortable with before God. My main issue is always that the sanctuary be quiet for prayer even before the service begins. I need that to prepare. Thanks for your kind and understanding response.🙂

[@maxaplin4204]

@@Topcat1952 Good to discuss with you. God bless.

[@chadprimeau893]

Sending love to my brothers and sisters! ❤ Weather they drink coffee or not. The Lord is raising up the little ones and the Pharisees are going to feel a certain way about it. Let’s not focus only on the words people speak but also the spirit behind them. Matthew 23:24- Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Praise God! 🙏

[@user-hj6om4ze7s]

I’d say something small like having a coffee in hand leads to bigger things, taking away why we are at church in the first place. Like wearing your hat in church…I think it takes away the respect we should have when we go to church.

[@jessethomas3979]

So many commentators haven't even heard the first few minutes of the video😅

[@TexSquirrel]

I believe that coffee shouldn’t be allowed in the sanctuary. I have been guilty of drinking coffee at my church service. I had an “everyone is doing it, so why not” attitude. I understand how it can be too distracting and too casual. However, I hesitate to say water should be banned. Our church service is two hours, and air conditioning at times doesn’t work well.

[@xFarmerGilesOfHamx]

"hahaha haha look at how we've divided the church on such an unimportant matter hehe haha" I think Paul would say something like this "Let's not put more heavy burdens on our tired parents with young children. Don't drink coffee if it's a problem for you, but don't judge others for doing so either." Let's also look at Jesus allowing his disciples to pick grain on the sabbath. Also worth noting that my comments are coming from an Anglican who has found a great deal of respect for the traditions of a liturgical service. It helps to focus me and align my heart to the words of scripture and prayers of Christians before me. I wish Pastor John had more of a nuanced perspective on liturgical services since I believe it does a disservice to those who belong in a community such as mine. It's not for everyone but it really helps me to worship as it does with many others. TLDR; I think this is a silly, divisive non-issue that Pastor John is using to prop himself as holier-than-thou while laying guilt and burdens on others.

[@ikemeitz5287]

Man, I'd disagree. I drink coffee during the service and I don't intend to stop. I don't think Piper would find any issue with that. But I think Piper was using this as a microcosm of an attitude about God that exists in SOME people/churches. Not as some pharisaical "new law." I don't think he's saying "Ha, here's a way that I am more holy than other people," I think he's saying "in all things, be careful that your heart is right toward God. If coffee in the service is a sign of flippancy in your heart, then let's lay aside this weight also." (I think it's worth hearing this APJ in light of the rest of his ministry as well. There's really not been a pattern of holier-than-thou attitudes in his preaching/books/articles. Even if you disagree with him about the liturgy, it's worth having mercy on a Christian brother rather than leaping to accusing him of sin.)

[@D.A.-Espada]

Careful. Piper would never think he's "holier-than- thou" Your projection onto him because of hownsenofnwhat he says makes you uncomfortable doesn't give you the excuse to ascribe characteristics to him he doesn't possess or rather, by which he isnt possessed, including a lack of humility. To be analogous, it's just like the Liberal thinking that if you don't agree with their ideology or lifestyle then it automatically means you "hate" them. He might be wrong but he was careful with his words and didn't condemn anyone. Distilled, his words are very clear: Let's think about what reverence in the sanctuary really means. Coffee is merely the vehicle through which he is delivering that message and becssue so many are bucking the idea, maybe that's part of the reason it needs to be said. There's an odd defensiveness to the objectors of this particular message when it comes to their precious coffee. It's indicative of a greater issue of pride in much of the church.

[@maxaplin4204]

I'm surprised you would think this about John Piper from what he says in this video. He's clearly wanting Christians to have the right approach to God.

[@JP_21M]

How long was their Sanctuary and reverent worship intentionally shut down by the pastors while they were in agreement with the Governments edict that reverent worship was non-essential? I guess we can talk about coffee... *Facepalm (Honest rehtorical question, I don't actually know the answer)

[@jonathonjankovich2362]

If the all about me songs, the trite talks from casually dressed speakers, and the theater-like dimness of the sanctuary lighting with the spotlights on the professionals on stage don’t concern us, drinking a cup of coffee seems a much smaller gnat to strain at. We’ve come a long way in American churches. A long way down. How does our Sunday AM services resemble what we see in revelation? Perhaps a church-wide regulative principle might be useful.

[@Oneforall86]

So preachers can have water in the pulpit but I can’t have a cup at my seat? Jesus made sure people who heard him had something to eat but I can’t have a coffee? Hung up on the wrong issues.

[@Endee21]

You could wait an hour before having your coffee or have it before service!

[@jessethomas3979]

I don't think anybody has an issue with people having a bottle of water at your seat. Water is a necessity, coffee is not.

[@Oneforall86]

@@jessethomas3979 oh ok, so sipping water is ok but not coffee?

[@Oneforall86]

@@Endee21 I could, but what makes it so wrong? Why judge another over coffee?

[@Endee21]

@@Oneforall86you obviously don’t understand the deeper meaning behind all this. Pray for discernment. Have a blessed day!

[@lulufavs4519]

It’s called REVERENCE! RESPECT! You can wait till you’re done at service or make time to have it before. STOP BEING STUPID! GOD IS FIRST!

[@aliciabazemore9824]

This may border on too legalistic but I see how one cup can turn into other things being brought in and then more and more

[@HeroC14]

People will bring McDonald's breakfast to worship with.

[@mattwalter6207]

Piper is legalistic about soooo many things

[@aliciabazemore9824]

@@mattwalter6207 what else?

[@mattwalter6207]

@aliciabazemore9824 For example, he thinks a male pastor can quote a woman's scripture commentary from the pulpit, but he would not let that woman preach from the pulpit. There's countless more like that. Hard core Calvinist are always legalistic

[@ButlerBranding]

So can we still drink coffee in service? 🤔

[@aviyahchaverim9388]

It seems that the main encouragement is to follow and do as Jesus lead us to do with the deepest reverence. On the note, I am puzzled as to why it is practice to observe the Sunday as the Lord's day when in scripture God says the Sabbath is on the 7th day of the week. Should not Christians aim to keep the 4th commandment as it is written as well? Exodus 20:8-10 says the following, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.” At creation God also rested and declared the seventh day holy (Genesis 2:1-3).

[@abeiradapraia]

I’m surprised someone hasn’t already responded to you with “that’s legalism” (which seems to be the favorite phrase of so-called “Christians” when you point out what God’s law says). In any event, I agree. Christians supposedly abide by the 10 Commandments, so why skip the 4th one??? But then, you still run into the same coffee-in-the-church problem, just now on a different day, LOL 😅.

[@angelajackson3258]

Total 💯 AMEN

[@bbblahoo7]

As a coffee lover and believer I’ve ran into others who consider caffeine a sin. I believe they are in the mind state where there was a church in New Testament where they were getting drunk off the communion and were told “do you not have food and drink at home..?” But I also believe “it’s not what enters the body but what comes out.” We live hectic busy lives and if they are sipping a nice cup of Joe and are attentive and listening and worshiping I see no harm no foul. Unless they are so caffeinated they are running their mouth being a distraction to others then I don’t see how this would be a bad thing however I would leave my comment like this: “if our freedom causes others to stumble…” should our cup of Joe be hidden? I drink mine at home in any case.

[@robyngillum8577]

I was once highly offended and wanted nothing to do with churches that embraced coffee sipping. Gradually I conformed and lost my conviction. THANK YOU for bringing me back to reality and reminding me that the sanctuary is not intended to be a comfortable place.

[@ikemeitz5287]

I think you've misunderstood his point. He's not asking you to be offended by churches with coffee and feel "more holy" than people who drink coffee in the service. He's saying "In all things, be careful that your heart is right toward God. If coffee in the service is a sign of flippancy in your heart, then let's lay aside this weight also." Don't pass judgement on people for things which God himself doesn't judge people for. Like in Romans 14:3-4, "Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls."

[@RT-qz5ci]

@@ikemeitz5287awesome use of scripture. 👏

[@ikemeitz5287]

​@@RT-qz5ci Thank you brother/sister! It's God who wrote it about God's people who have God living in them causing them to be like God. All in all, I'm not a big part of the process lol. It's his glory if I remember his word well.

[@peytonbrown7913]

This feels super legalistic.

[@D.A.-Espada]

According to you, but there are plenty of us wbo don't feel that way. One day, we will stand before the Lord, and we will have to give an account for our lives, and I guarantee you there will be things we were far too casual about. Once confronted by the King of the Universe Himself, we will very likely be a stuttering mess attempting to justify ourselves if we'll be able to have the audacity to speak at all.

[@peytonbrown7913]

The Pharisees were very into observing things like this. Jesus was pretty causal. He healed in the temple on a sabbath. If coffee is wrong to drink, we must not drink water in church either lol. It’s about the heart, not drinking coffee while listening to a message 😂

[@maxaplin4204]

@@peytonbrown7913 There is a difference between coffee and water. Water is a necessity. Coffee isn't.

[@peytonbrown7913]

If you show me one scripture that says to not drink or eat anything while gathering, then you will change my opinion. But as of now, your heart on this reminds me of the Pharisees.

[@peytonbrown7913]

Coffee could be a necessity if you didn’t sleep good the night before and you would like something to help you stay awake.

[@timothyogwynn3410]

I appreciated the reply. I am a coffee sipper and have felt increasingly convicted about it. I don’t understand the critique of liturgy, though. Most liturgies are soaked in scripture and teach congregants how to pray and sing scripture until it’s in your bones. There is nothing rote or constrictive about reading and singing scripture. I have found myself less engaged in low church settings because it is simply singing a few songs (that is easy to mentally check out during) and listening to a sermon. It feels much more like entertainment to me, even in its best form.

[@jtika1978]

“Low church settings”??