Our opinion of Jeffrey R Holland's latest interview

[@TreatsOnTheStreets]

I think what people commonly misrepent love with is approval. They think if you don't approve you don't love and that isn't true.

[@danjohnson8556]

Agreed. They mistakenly think 'affirmation' is the only sign of love.

[@cumomsandcureloms]

I think you mean "misrepresent"

[@dinocollins720]

100% Jesus always loved, yet... He never compromised His commandments and principles!

[@jordanh4127]

Well said!

[@raullimon6582]

Elder Holland gave 2 back to back conference talks on what was basically The Great Apostasy, it was brilliant and I am not ashamed to say he is my favourite Apostle as well. When the awful (for me) day comes and he is no longer with us.......will be grateful for the years I got to listen to his counsel.

[@gwengold8154]

I agree! Elder Holland is my favorite 😍 I can't imagine a world without him 💔

[@michaelort7768]

I'm with David. I've said a number of times, when Pres. Holland passes away, I will be devastated.

[@dinocollins720]

Will be a horrible day for us!!! Other side of the veil will have a party lol

[@Jace28142]

I want/need President Holland to live for as long as possible. His love and tenderness is needed so much today.

[@KraytDragon1138]

Wow, I will never be able to watch The Two Towers again without thinking about the 12 apostles during the entmoot scene 🤣🤣🤣

[@dwRS1]

Thank you Saints Unscripted. I am so encouraged by your testimonies and examples for the youth and the older generation. Keep up the good work.

[@lynettemills7216]

This was great to listen to, especially after having my first grandchild open her mission call last night! She is going to Peru!

[@templesofjesus]

🦋🦋🦋

[@01sharpy]

Two days after I was baptized at the age of 23, the missionary elders took me to their Christmas mission conference. Elder Holland was Europe NW Area President at the time and he spoke. Before President Holland spoke, another speaker spoke, he came down from the stage and asked missionaries to look up scriptures and have them give him their interpretation. I was terrified I would be called upon. When President Holland started speaking there was an immediate feeling of love radiating from that man. Not long after he was called to the Quorum of the Twelve.

[@bradleyhowell4155]

Thats awesome

[@dinocollins720]

love it!

[@dinocollins720]

I just felt overwhelming love at Elder Holland's words. There's no other way to describe it!

[@lorianntanner]

I just came upon this podcast. I’m Really glad I found it. I’m a mother in her 40s raising my three children in West Los Angeles. Navigating this world can be so wacky. I like your raw discussions

[@Steelblaidd]

I remember hearing about that talk to the faculty and being horribly frustrated by people's inability to listen to what was actually said and hear what they wanted to hear.

[@shireecox122]

Thank goodness for President Holland ❤

[@zionmama150]

11:02 David, I don’t think he was saying that we should love first and have truth second, rather what he was saying is that those two things are equally the most important. Because of the way he words it you might want to go back and revisit that because he’s saying the second thing as in that it is also important. He is not trying to say that truth is second place.

[@Tomodachi101]

Great discussion.

[@tessannmacallister5747]

You guys do such anawesome job keep up the great work

[@kimberlytousley3450]

❤

[@EastonBawden-bq6eq]

love the entmoot reference!

[@jugatsu23nichi]

Is that map of Utah behind David in LoTR style? I love it! Great video, I love Elder Holland!

[@richardwilliamsmusic]

Is there a link or the interview?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

The interview is on The Church News! www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2024/08/30/church-news-podcast-204-president-jeffrey-holland-gospel-jesus-christ-life-challenges-sister-sheri-dew/

[@dinocollins720]

The day Elder Holland passes away Will be a horrible day for us... other side of the veil will have a party lol

[@RyanMercer]

🤘🤘

[@littlelana696]

❤️

[@lucyjackson3754]

I search for the podcast with Elder Holland and Sheri Dew, but I can’t seem to find it. Can anyone please provide me with a link to that talk. Much appreciated. ❤

[@kathykoeven]

I can’t find it either.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Sorry we forgot to add it, but the link is in the description now! :)

[@bonniebeaumier2919]

You didn't link the interview in your show notes

[@sabrinafuller4246]

It’s there now 👍🏻

[@kathykoeven]

Does anyone have a link to the full podcast? Thanks!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Sorry we forgot to add it, but the link is in the description now!

[@kathykoeven]

@@SaintsUnscripted thank you!

[@DirectorDirectorManReyman]

where can i view Elder Hollands Talk?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

The link is in the description now :)

[@aBrewster29]

Above all, I love the reminder to love. We all need that reset. We can’t just say people aren’t leaving the Church en masse and have it be so. That is wishful thinking. There are statistical indicators that people, especially youth, are leaving at a higher rate than before. I see a high rate of inactivity through my calling with the youth in my Utah ward. To the extent that the reasons cited by those who step away have to do with intrinsic values, I would think that ought to be taken very seriously by both leaders and rank-and-file members. Also, the main friction point in this talk (about personal revelation never conflicting with the brethren) introduces contradictions. For one, we want people to accept that Nephi received personal revelation to kill a defenseless Laban, while they themselves are barred from receiving a personal exception/adaptation on comparably smaller matters. Second, how do you account for those who felt that they received a personal, spiritual witness on matters before the Church changed? The obvious example would be the race ban, but it really applies to all cases where the Church dug in its heels at first and only changed after significant negative pressure. For kids who see such contradictions, it’s a testimony killer. If gospel principles don’t resonate with their conscience and/or sound reasoning, you may as well be asking these kids to hold onto their belief in Santa Claus, because the admonition is to believe in spite of one’s faculties. For any who don’t see this as a problem I suggest you get down in the trenches with those whose life circumstances put them there.

[@markchristiansen9611]

I completely agree. Although, I don't think he ever says people aren't leaving the church. What he talks about is how many youth are very active in the church. Specifically, they had to create 36 new missions in one year because of youth demand to go on a mission. Also annectdotally that youth are flocking to the temples.

[@jeremybelinski7713]

People aren’t leaving en masse. I do have concerns with people with your views working with the youth. The logic you outline is commonly used by those who seek to tear down the church and lead people away. Yes, I’ve been in the trenches for years and the thought track is the same…it doesn’t build faith. It is intended to accentuate supposed contradictions that lack the full context and destroy faith, such as your comment about personal revelation against the 15 or nephi killing Laban. This is a problem that is rooted in sophistry.

[@aBrewster29]

@@jeremybelinski7713 two follow up questions: 1) What is your concern with “people like me” working with the youth? Edit to clarify: what do you assume I am doing that would disqualify me from working with the youth? 2) How would you describe the purpose of faith? Edit to add a generic comment: In my Florida ward we saw about 25%-33% retention of youth transitioning into adulthood over a sustained period going back nearly 15 years. In my current Utah ward, about 1/4 of the young teenagers are already pulling away-they don’t want to come and their parents aren’t compelling them. Both of our temples in Florida are way underutilized, and missionary efforts are a revolving door. That’s my immediate view. Globally the shrinkage in England has been well documented, and the worldwide stake growth quoted by Pres Holland has been disproven using the Church’s own published statistics. And for the first time in history a majority of Utahns have self-identified as not being members of the Church. Please understand, I’m not trying to be antagonistic-I’m trying to deal with reality. I’d be interested to hear a rational response as to why these metrics don’t point toward a troubling trend of members leaving. I can’t simply take your counterclaim at face value.

[@jeremybelinski7713]

@@aBrewster29 it’s your own stated claims and comments on this thread. That’s my issue. I don’t like and never will the crowd that finds fault with the church, the brethren, the statistics, doctrines and then calls it academics, scholarship, nuance, insert whatever word of the moment you wish. Do the brethren and church have faults. Of course, but I see more people leave over all the multiple criticisms people like you lump onto the shoulders of the church without context. It clouds in REALITY the foundations of testimony the youth need desperately. Foundations - testimony of god, His Son, the fall, the atonement, the Book of Mormon, the Holy Ghost, our covenants, and daily progression. Indeed, all the nuances and stats you throw around similar to so many others who post their content serve to confuse, create a “gotcha” for the brethren, and ultimately destroy faith. Do the youth and those building a foundation need you sniping at every little thing such as elder Holland’s comments on stake numbers? Clearly not. The adversary hates them enough already and they will face the burdens of mortality anyway without you finding fault and pointing the finger of scorn to mist up the needed foundations of faith. Oh, I can just hear the steady retort “you want to hide all of this from the youth?!” Not at all. Anybody can find any of it. It’s just that some have a penchant to throw it in everyone’s face with a constant yammering of “what abouts”. Thats the issue. We’ve seen this for centuries. It’s always the same. For me, I will teach them doctrine. I will kneel and pray with them, fast with them, whatever it takes, to ensure the foundations are strong. But will not, even when I see big issues, seek to snipe at the brethren and the church and somehow think that adds value. Nossir.

[@aBrewster29]

@@jeremybelinski7713 thank you for sharing your thoughts. I can appreciate your point of view. I’m really not sure what more to say. It makes me sad that you are dismissive of objective facts and observations, and that you’re framing my acknowledgment of them as sniping at the brethren. That projects an air of malicious intent onto me that frankly isn’t there. To be perfectly honest, there’s a part of me that wouldn’t want someone with your faith paradigm teaching my children either, because a faith that detaches itself from tough realities is indiscernible from a child’s belief in Santa Claus, and I’ve seen far too many kids feel like the rug was pulled from under them when they encounter issues in early adulthood. The difference between you and me might be that I recognize that your paradigm also has unique strengths, and that the body of Christ needs both of our views. So I would never say that someone like you shouldn’t work with the youth. Rather, I would build an open relationship with my child and encourage them to discuss questions/concerns from someone else’s teachings. I do agree with you on not putting a spotlight on the flaws of the Church. I would never seek to introduce faith controversy to children. At the same time, I don’t want to contribute to future faith crisis by promoting blind faith or a false perception that the Church is perfect. There are kids from a variety of backgrounds in my classroom, and I seek to give them gospel basics and promote personal study and prayer so they can apply those principles in their unique circumstances. Maybe that changes some of the assumptions, maybe not. I’ve been doing this a long time, and I’ve seen kids stay and leave. But in both cases they’ve loved my class and found it beneficial to their faith and life. If anything I would hope you might have more of an open mind and appreciate what others bring to the Body of Christ.

[@jonneilculala6561]

do you have the link for this podcast?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Just added it to the description!

[@piperjohnson4808]

I can't find the interview. Can you please link it?

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Just did! Sorry about that :)

[@polynikes2000]

After listening to this interview response, I am reminded about how vapid this podcast channel is...they love Elder Holland, but think the BYU faculty address was troublesome. They lament about how mental health and happiness are important and correlated, but seem entirely devoid of either.

[@99blackbirds]

Can someone tell Elder Oaks to show Love? Its been leaked that Oaks noticed a decline in discipline counseling world wide and he wants MORE disciplinary actions MORE ex-communication. I do not see any LOVE or Grace in Oaks eyes.

[@shireecox122]

That’s so not true. President Oaks is an amazing, loving, Christlike Apostle of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

[@FedoraFilms978]

There are times for love and mercy, but there are definitely also times for justice and discipline. Sometimes, mercy cannot rob justice, no matter how much we want it to. The Apostles and general church authorities are called to be Judges in Israel, and Elder Oaks has every right to speak about his concerns.

[@jessegriffin4537]

I think it's also important to recognize his context. His career was in the Justice system. I can't imagine it being very easy to be in the mindset of passing judgments and consequences for decades and then be expected to completely leave that thinking behind.

[@danjohnson8556]

Discipline and justice are elements of love in the same way that mercy and forgiveness are. Love is wanting what is in the best interest in the long term. Love is not affirming every whim, or we would feed our toddlers candy for every meal.

[@99blackbirds]

@@FedoraFilms978 I have too many stories converts that I helped baptize friends who got sent home from mission early. Female friends who had sex without going to the temple and they all had disciplinary actions and I promise and testify it was traumatic for all of them! It does no good! Christ did not do this!! It’s horrifying and you know it!! Our leaders try make it not a punishment but the human mind only sees fear shame and anxiety they already feel bad! It’s not good for mental health!

[@jacobdevitry1570]

And more lunacy, jesus christ , I wont capitalize everything cuz I know half of you will somehow find that offensive to your sensibilities...you are sooo proud of this man for working 8 hours a day 3 days a week, maybe 4 days on the occasional travel weekend, where his "work" mainly consists of reusing talks and sitting in meetings where he is adored... How brave and inspired of him. Oh whats that he needed to agree to the "prophets" " Homosexual child ordinance ban" which was quickly reversed... How inspired and courageous of him to spend his time in that meeting, listening and sustaining a 98 year old lunatic...wow, so impressive, much stamina and very dedicated to his own image...THINK!!!