Overview of South African Gun Laws

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Basic gun ownership in South Africa - what does it involve and how does it work? Dedicated collectors, sportsmen, and hunters? Self-dense and concealed carry? Well, when I was in South Africa I figured I'd get the scoop from a local...
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[@dougmccomber]

There’s a reason the SA laws sound similar to Canada’s. Wendy Cukier (Canada’s #1 anti-gun lobbyist) was a consultant to the SA government when they were crafting the current laws.

[@requestcontainsinvalidargu185]

She is Cuckier then the rest.

[@aidancarkeek3044]

Uhhhh that's nothing like Canadian gun laws....

[@johnblackmen8214]

They can own most guns we cant

[@fleebogazeezig6642]

Lol Cukier, fitting name

[@jort93z]

Is this gonna become a series? would be interesting.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, that's the plan.

[@jort93z]

I'll be looking forward to the next episodes.

[@mattig89ch]

jort93z +

[@jakobv8266]

@@ForgottenWeapons can you maybe do Bolivia or Argentina in the future? I’m curious as I wouldn’t mind living their part time.

[@jonathandalton2921]

the gentleman made a nice relatively simple explanation of the system. we must just emphasis , the waiting periods are not mandatory waiting periods , they are time delays from paper work and general government slowness. and all the permissions and paperwork go through the central registry in pretoria.

[@davidcronin5689]

I had a dream where I had my garage filled with R4, R5, and R6’s. What a great dream

[@matthewspencer5086]

Things may have got more bureaucratic than they were: when a relative of mine checked South African gun laws in the seventies and realised that he needed a licence for the .22" LR rifles that he had imported with his furniture from the IoM when he migrated to South Africa. He went to Constantia police station to apply for one. The desk sergeant said "nobody applies for a licence for a .22" rifle. Did you have a licence where you came from?" My relative showed the sergeant his Manx licence. "Excellent! That'll do fine: keep that and you'll be alright." Two decades later, the guns returned to the IoM without ever having been registered or licenced in South Africa.

[@b.hagedash7973]

Another small pro to make up for all the other restrictions is that in SA silencers\suppressors are completely uncontrolled.

[@b.hagedash7973]

In SA we mostly call them silencers, a designation we also apply to mufflers

[@KylieManur3]

Hiram Maxim jr. called it a silencer when he invented and patented it in 1902. The term suppressor has only been in use since 1985. Both are acceptable terms. though, in legal terms, they are referred to as silencers.

[@Axis-bq7uy]

I also like that a gun license and concealed carry licence are one in the same. You can take them to any area as long as it’s not a gun free zone

[@m1garandlvr420]

Yea because SA and Europe know that it help save hunters' hearing and less noise pollution. Also they know that people aren't assassins like in the movies.

[@jason127x99]

John Garand too bad the libtards here in America think that.

[@LonewolfGaming1]

The attitude in South Africa towards self defence (and the US) makes me as an Englishman very jealous and quite embarrassed about U.K. law. I know it’s a dangerous country by comparison, but the principle of self reliance is so important!

[@heru_ur6017]

We will soon be just as disarmed like you. Since this video was made the government has tabled a revision of the gun laws that if voted thru parlament will remove the right to own a gun for self defence. And it looks like it will be approved.

[@requestcontainsinvalidargu185]

Well said sir! Take this like

[@jackofmanytrades4396]

@@heru_ur6017 Registration is always the precursor to confiscation. To everyone in the US: beware of "Universal Background Checks". They are nothing more than a registration scheme.

[@colesherrill7472]

@@jackofmanytrades4396 trust me, were aware. It's the uninformed guys who'd rather vote out our constitution for "safety" and know nothing about why any/every bit was implemented.

[@foxtailedcritter]

How do you think I as an Australian feels? We can't even own pepper spray or knuckle dusters or tazors. I need to move to Nigeria. Much easier access.

[@Ari--d]

"semi auto handguns are legal" American companies: this AR15 is now a handgun

[@pillowsocket]

Everytime I watch these law videos i want to go out and buy another gun of the "Restricted/Prohibited" variety

[@NvrchFotia]

Thank you Ian, very cool!

[@tinyj4520]

Very cool.

[@jeffreyl.7210]

I'll bet all those laws are really effective at deterring violence and poaching.

[@linds6609]

Hehe I see what you did there XD

[@rallywolf]

At least the standard firearms owner is allowed to have one for self defence. A legal right to use a gun for self defence is kinda rare in alot of countries.

[@michaelfisher4737]

@@rallywolf here in the UK you cant own an object for selfdefence, even a fucking dildo

[@lloydabraham4739]

Not a chance

[@memelords6260]

@@michaelfisher4737 lol

[@silvadossantos6803]

Laws are made with(and for) those who already hqve the monopoly of force.

[@teh_major4106]

cheers for sharing, always interesting to hear how things work across the pond.

[@memecommandomike4659]

I am a South African firearm owner and this break down is correct, but the explination of the compentency certificates was a bit simplified. Firearms which are not prohibitted in RSA are generally classified as: - Handguns (excl fully automatic) - Manually operated Shotguns - Manually operated rifles and carbines - Automatic loading rifles and carbines (excl fully automatic) There is a basic course on the law that allows you to progress to training courses for each class described above. Your compentency certificate will list all the compentencies you have completed and that will allow you to apply for a license for a firemarm in those classes. Most people do the basic course and the handgun course on the same day. I am a sucker for writing exams so I did handguns, manually operated shotguns and manually operated rifles all on the same day... at least the second half of the day was on the range! If you have a compentency certificate without a license (ie a security guard who carries a business firearm) then it expires every 5 years. Otherwise your compentency certificate will expire when your next firearm licence expires and will thereafter reset to the same period of your shortest firearm license. That cuts down on a lot of redundent background checks, which gets done EVERY TIME you get something renewed. From start to finish it took me a little over a year to take possession of my first hadgun. It took 5 months for my compentency certificate and 4 months for my handgun's license with a few months in between because of waiting for the paperwork on my handgun purchase which I bought a few days before Christmas and then preparing my application. Most of the time is taken up by the criminal background check, here in RSA we have the technology to do instant fingerprint checks but for some reason we do not use them for formal criminal backgrounds checks. Your fingerprints are taken with ink on paper and that gets sent to Pretoria to be checked, which is a massive bottleneck. Other than your criminal record being checked the police can also interview your spouse (almost always) and your neighbours, but that is very often a quick phone call or when they come to inspect your gun safe. Technically you can buy a firearm without a license or compentency certificate but you may not possess it. You can also possess a firearm with the appropriate compentency certificate when you don't own it. Techincally the police and millitary must also have firearms compentency certificates too, which nearly all new force members get during their training but older members who were around before the laws changed... :-)

[@pietervanwyk6686]

Meme Commando Mike I waited 3 years for my compatancy and licence

[@gyrosphinx]

Seems like a very sensible system.

[@jasonunwin5422]

1. Were these laws the same pre and post apartheid? 2.Do they really have any effect on gun related crimes? 3. Does it reduce accidents or suicide by fire arm? 4. Does it have any impact on lowering the over all crime rate per capita in South Africa?

[@The10mmcure]

Last AR I got (Ruger AR 556), I had to wait 4 days for it to ship (it shipped on a Friday), pay $20 to a FFL for a transfer fee and on top of all that wait 5 whole minutes for a background check! The entire ordeal once I arrived to pick it up took about 15 minutes,and by the time I got back to the truck,I hadn't cracked my windows and it was really hot in there! Then I stopped at the BBQ place,it took them 20 minutes to make a shrimp plate to go! ;p

[@memecommandomike4659]

Jason Unwin here are some answers: 1 - No. 2 - I seriously doubt it. There is probably a reduction in the theft of firearms because of our safe storage rules but criminals who want guns can get them really easily, often by shooting a police officer for theirs (usually the provincial traffic police, they tend to have nicer handguns). 3 - I have no idea. I would expect there to be a reduction in accidents because of the training requirements, but stupid people are still stupid even after training... 4 - It probably increases crimes like home invasions. A study done to find out what deters a criminal from burglarising a house found that the possibility of the home owner having a firearm was 4th on the list of their concerns. Farm invasions show that some criminals are not detered by the presence of firearms (neatly all farms have a rifle and/or a shotgun around) but they do wait for a time where they think the firearms will not play a role (ie when there are only women and children on the premise or when the men won't be around the firearms - which is why women should also learn to shoot).

[@mattig89ch]

Interesting show. Thanks for showing us this!

[@timmehjimmeh]

A few interesting points worth adding to this. Barring the restrictions above to licence the firearm, once it is registered in your name and you have the card in your hand, modifying and upgrading the weapon is, to an extent, your business. Aesthetic options like one would apply to an AR aren't taxed like they are in the States (stock modifications, foregrips, and the like) and suppressors aren't restricted, as they are seen as part of the sport (be it hunting or long range shooting). My preferred outdoor range requests suppressed rifles be used for the sake of the neighbouring businesses. Can be a bit of a schlep if you want to swap out a handgun barrel to accept a suppressor, as the frame, slide and barrel serials are on your licence, so unfortunately "just" buying a new suppressor ready barrel after the fact is not that easy. I know most gunsmiths will upgrade the existing barrel if possible. Also, your competency is valid as long as your licence is valid, so being sure to renew your licence is pretty important. Most of my licences are dedicated sporting licences, so they are valid 10 years as opposed to the self defence's 5. Renewing licences is the latest upheaval in the local gun debate, as the wheels of processing applications move slowly. I generally encourage friends who want a firearm to aim for occasional sportsman, and then upgrade their status to dedicated if they want more firearms. It's easy for a KORPORAL at CFR to decline a self defence licence if he feels you aren't in imminent danger every day of your life, but joining a club and shooting regularly is good evidence that you take the weapon seriously. Plus, shooting as part of a club is going to make you a more proficient shooter, so why not? So for the controversial part, I think the local gun laws are good, not perfect, but they allow civilians to arm themselves, in a "responsible" manner. Yeah, the bureaucracy SUCKS, that's probably the weakest point in my opinion. This is not a popular opinion State-side, to be sure, but it's not a popular opinion locally either. I for one, as a legally licenced firearm owner feel better knowing that it's not easy for just anyone to get a firearm on a whim, its a process. One I worked hard on, but now I get to shoot competitively for fun a couple times a month, and have the option of defending myself too. South Africa's gun problem is an ILLEGAL firearms problem. Crimes aren't committed with legal firearms even of a fraction of the time compared to weapons left over from our border war, stolen from the police or army or other illegal means. Given that as mentioned above, fully auto weapons are hard to come by. So when crime is committed with AK clones, FAL clones, R4's and R5's, it's safe to say they were never in civilian hands. The local gun debate needs to focus on those weapons, not legally armed civilians. As a disclaimer, this is my opinion based on personal experience, shooting for about 8 years now, I don't know ALL the ins and outs of local law, but this is what I've experienced.

[@hookedupboer]

Just read this after posting my feeble contribution. Thanks for the detail!

[@timmehjimmeh]

Haha! This is KZbin, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!

[@smite5555]

What aesthetic upgrades to AR-15s do you think are taxed in the US? Are you talking about short barreled rifles?

[@timmehjimmeh]

I'm probably fumbling the terminology. I'm referring to the assault weapon ban type stuff. How two identical rifles can be legal or illegal with minor upgrades. Pistol grips, adjustable stocks, detachable mag type stuff. I had a buddy buy a Seiga AK in hunting configuration, and he just updated the furniture to "assault rifle" specs and that's no issue here. I understand that from State-to-State that can be an issue, legally speaking. But also yeah, you can buy a carbine SBR here or a regular length rifle, so long as you licence it as a self loading rifle and you have the correct competency for it. Same thing in the eyes of the law.

[@jonathandalton2921]

good points , well written ! i agree, its not even close to perfect but its okay. i'm saving up money at th moment to do mine, in a similar fashion , that is , sport first . practice makes perfect.

[@zzyzx0069]

Even though it's a 2year video. Thank you Ian for teaching me, a South African bout out gun laws. Found out more in this video than I did from SAPS or local gun stores

[@Old-Boy_BEbop]

@@samet.2637 other than its beautiful land, its a dog hole... riddled with corruption on all fronts from government to police services like any other Central American country. racism runs dead and criminal violence here is far worse than that of America and we are only 55million SA vs 350million USA which says a lot. after the apartheid the country has fallen to the dumps. and its only getting worse as this countries total motivation to be ruled is base on racism.

[@MIKEY777_]

@@samet.2637 it's unsafe and segregated Poverty is high and the government corruption is unbearable

[@roxrud10]

Great vid, Ian. Love your content.

[@gregcampwriter]

The idea that if you're a legal owner of a gun for self defense, you are automatically allowed to carry it is one area where South Africa is a bit ahead of the United States, though it would be better to take away the legal hurdles.

[@memecommandomike4659]

Actually you don't have to have a gun licenced for self defence to legally carry it. You can just as legally carry a handgun licenced for sport shooting as there is no restriction of what it may be used for. The only problem with that is that if you carry it too much you will get into trouble for providing a false motivation to the CFR. I have a handgun licenced for occasional sports shooting which I sometime carry for self defence (on long road trips etc) and that's perfectly fine. The fct that we must carry concealed and that we can't really be barred from carrying unless a facility has a registered firearms lockup is definitely a step ahead of the USA.

[@CarlThom]

The law states something like "A firearm for which a valid license is issued can be used for any lawful purpose" and South African law states that self-defence is a lawful purpose. The only restriction is that when carrying a firearm in public, it must be in an appropriate carrying device (holster or bag) and that it must be completely covered (not concealed, only covered). Obviously, the smart thing is to conceal it, as to keep the element of surprise.

[@super1million11]

There are 14 U.S states that allow legal gun owners to carry without any extra paperwork

[@deaankoekemoer5471]

Thanks for the info :D I've been researching US politics so much I assumed that we required a carry licence until this video. Knowledge is power yo.

[@aries_9130]

Very interesting! These laws are actually quite similar to the laws here in Germany, at least in most areas. I would not have thought that. I'm really excited for coming videos about gun laws in other countries. Thanks Ian!

[@Axis-bq7uy]

Thanks, this really helped me for the future

[@francescogreggio6712]

Very interesting video. I hope you will do one about gun laws in Italy in the future. To my (very limited) knowledge, Italy is one of those not-too-many countries that actually restrict certain types of calibres by dividing them into "civilian use" and "military use".

[@tomstokoe5660]

It's pronounced "Seth Efrica" Ian.

[@tomstokoe5660]

As if I used to play cricket with a couple Seth Efricans, their dad bought me a hash brown once.

[@jakkalsfuche4580]

Hugh Mungus fok 😂

[@wikieditspam]

Humungous what?

[@deaankoekemoer5471]

Lmpa!!! Omg wake and bake reading that out loud just made my morning... Lekka lekka hahaha moerse goeie dag verder!!!

[@deaankoekemoer5471]

SnoutBaron nah dude capey accent lolz some of us DO sound like that and those people's use of sound is fucking awesome and legendary :D

[@rupertmcnaughtdavis7302]

Welcome,Ian.Succinctly put,Denzil. Learnt a bit myself about collecting . We look to the American guns laws,Ian, with great envy!

[@paulwillhite6730]

Would love to see more videos of gun laws abroad. This was great Ian.

[@afnDavid]

Three things I think you should of also asked. 1: Fees.... How much do these tests, licenses cost. 2: Inspections.... Are you subject to having your home and guns inspected. 3: Firearms costs vs other countries. (Special taxes on arms and/or ammunition if any)

[@tytzup5397]

Searched for " south African gun laws" and up pops Ian. Thanks.

[@jonokiller]

love the comfy love seat used

[@rongants6082]

Very, very interesting. Thank you. Tomorrow morning, I will sit on my porch with a cup of coffee and watch the sun rise, and thank God I live in Wyoming.

[@petesheppard1709]

Interesting and enlightening...Thanks!

[@stephanematis]

Nothing like bureaucrats to make things complicated and shifty.

[@carterwhitmire6641]

Thanks for telling us we love you

[@richardstrokerperformance4829]

Are you going to do one on Australia? Everyone says we are "leading the world" when it comes to our laws but I think they are ridiculously restrictive and I'm not alone. A little while back the government banned a gun because it looked "scary", even though it was just a regular bolt action. I'd love to hear someone how knows their way around our laws to better explain them to me.

[@blueband8114]

Jazza Umbers_57 they ban them in the UK because the dangerous people have them. Guess what, the dangerous people still have access.

[@randomrotors7639]

Simplified Aussie gun laws Aussie laws are pretty restrictive. I imagine Ozziereviews can own an AR-15 because it is part of his work, if he were to ever loose said work he has 5 years from when the licence was required or he is required to have the firearms removed from him. (From my understanding). Catagory A(rimfire shotgun combo, air rifles, rimfire rifles)are pretty easy to get same as Catagory B (centre fire rifles manual, break action shotguns), gun club or rural area are considered reason enough. Catagory C(semi auto rimfire with less the 10 round and shotguns will 5 round or less capacity) though you need from more extentuating circumstances, such as feral dogs being prominant (it varies from region to region). Catagory D (semi auto rifles and high capacity shotguns) which i imagine is what Ozziereviews requires the firearms to be work related. Professional pest control be one of the valid reasons to abtain a catagory D license. Though it needs to be renewed every 5 years. Category E are bullet resistent vests and armour. You need to be a security company for that i believe. Catagory H (hundguns) require you to compete in between 6 and 8 competitive shooting matches a year as a ordinary gun owner or your firearms are forfiet(i believe, might wanna fact check that). Of coarse security can get hand guns. Then there is catagory M that is a big long list i really dont wanns go into and it doesnt have any firearms in it.

[@thepoliticalgunnut8018]

because he possess a D cat and H class firearm license which is only permitted due to him being a professional shooter which is heavily restrictive even under a shooter of his status. Oh and don't get me started on the cost to possess, register and re register every year(for the H class especially), storage and again for handgun owners(H class) re apply for the licence at the end of each law. Also self defence is not exactly legal in Australia unless under certain circumstances but if the court or police decide that excessive force is used well expect to be charged with an assualt charge

[@randomrotors7639]

Andy Uk yeah but have you seen the quality of the fire arms they have. Not the best. It also severly restricts the illigal firearms market, meaning a standard glock 17 can run 3 to 5 times its orginal market price. When you look at the ratio of guns to people who want to use them to do harm it doesnt even compare to other countries. Also unintentional damage, injury and death are lower to which suggest the use of firearms among criminals are more selective and purposeful.

[@axtondragunov1784]

America has some stupid gun laws as well no government is perfect

[@Nomad_za]

Things have changed now again in South Africa. Still the same rules apply, but it takes 90 days to get your competency and 90 days to get your clearance. Before they could bother run at the same time, now you need the competency to apply for your clearance so you are going to wait 180 days.

[@hobdns5933]

Hi 2 questions License last five years (Which license)? Sporting or self defense ? U Can have four guns and the hand gun will be for self-defense (?does this apply to sporting license or self-defense) ?

[@snowflakecuntreeman3947]

Self defense license lasts 5years. Sporting license lasts 10years. 4 guns in total, including SD handgun. So if you have a SD handgun then you are left with 3 "slots" to fill. 4 firearms in total without any dedicated status, and limited to 200 rounds per caliber, so if you buy 2X 9mm pistols you are limited to 200rounds in total, but if you buy a 1911 (. 45) and a G19 (9mm) you can have 200 rounds of each and that is a total of 400 rounds. In short, dedicated status ia certainly worth it,... Umm unless you are a poor man like me then stockpiling 200 rounds while shooting regularly is quite the financial challenge 😊🤣, and the wife has her 9mm so yeh we just can't get up to stockpiling 400 rounds, we are up to like almost 300 but need to go shoot the rust out our weapons again and that will leave us back at less than 200🥴 I figure it's best to get a semi auto shotgun registered for SD and then pistol as sport shooting, since you are allowed to carry your sport handgun with you whenever wherever, and if you are in a situation where you feel the need to take the shotgun you are covered incase you bump into A-hole cops, just my 2c. But chat that out with the person you are doing your competency through.

[@Boreas74]

Hope to see one of these for Malta too.

[@chrisp4211]

Sort of the same laws here in Australia where you have to get your licence to own a firearm first then the firearm it self and you have to show the cops the fire are safe or safe room it's kept in and only people with a carry permit are Police (State + Federal), Armed security (money transfer) and special close protection.

[@Steve_ZAR]

Some interesting fact about SA: all self-defense firearms are concealed carry for civilians and all police with a uniform is open carry. You are only allowed to shoot a person if your life or someone’s life is threatened. If the criminal is not a threat at that moment after the crime you cannot shoot him. So he can rob you and walk away and you can not point a gun at him (preferably) or shoot a warning shot as it is attempted murder and you just mist. You really need to know the law very well. If you do shoot a person your gun will be taken away or analysis. That means you will be without a firearm for at least a week. Also ammunition. You need to have a license to buy ammo for you gun (only your caliber) and you are only allowed to have a certain amount if you are not a dedicated sportsman/hunter or collector. I think it is 200. You also need to sign in a register for all ammo bought or gun powder. Gun powder is also limited.

[@snowflakecuntreeman3947]

I read the FCA and it said something along the line of "you may only point someone wirh a firearm if there is good reason to do so", that's damn vague but i guess to get someone to stop beating up someone else. Infact just drawing a firearm or in legal terms "brandishing" a firearm is intimidation. But we recently had a individual beat his spouse while at the garage getting fuel and i walked closer, drew my firearm, racked the slide (yes i as a soldier don't do the cowboy one up thing), and did not need to say a word, the petrol attendants grabbed him and held him down till the police came, but obviously by that time i had long put away my firearm (those familiar with saps response times will understand 😅). I did not point at him, as he stopped beating her once he heard me rack the slide and my main concern was the white golf with tinted windows which they came out of as i didn't know if he had "friends" or what was going on. Had the "assaulter" been friends with the cops, I'd probably be going to court, who nows 🤷‍♂️ But we are a small town with good cops who know us as we regularly assist them, so they cut us alot of slack. And as it has been proven many times before that soldiers do tend to get preferential treatment in court and that is due to our code of conduct, "I pledge to serve and defend my country and it's people....." and that is enough to get one out of petty BS that civilians might struggle with in courts, but should i intimidate or assault someone I'm pretty much screwed 😅. Small perks, no indemnity, just like i think it should be. Just do some research, but it's safer to just look out fir yourself and your family.

[@Slim934]

Christ what a bureaucratic nightmare. And surprise surprise, it appears that none of this crap has any effect on crime.

[@jo14wp]

It has ZERO effect on crime, infact it just makes it harder for the law abiding public.

[@CarlThom]

You have no idea! There are people that have applied for things like a Browning Hi-Power, only to have their application denied because "fully automatic weapons are prohibited". Yes, the people with the power to approve or deny are that incompetent...

[@seanrossouw9936]

And yet crimes are committed daily with former state owned or smuggled in full auto firearms

[@TheStrangerHAZ]

And yet there are no SA mass school shootings.

[@kingbyrd.1512]

@@TheStrangerHAZ Thats because we dont have the same problems as the U.S I.e single mother's and drugged up children.

[@ThatDeltaBravo]

Dislike - You never had him say "Diplomatic Immunity."

[@requestcontainsinvalidargu185]

God bless this reference

[@kingbyrd.1512]

LOL. You're a star.

[@ninus17]

if you get the chance i would love to see a video in the danish gun laws.

[@edrichlouw1790]

No one can own fully automatic firearms..... yet in just about every large robery, poaching, farm murder and money truck heist they find ak’s and r4’s

[@JimFortune]

I hope you someday do this in Poland. I'm curious about the gun laws here, but not enough to go find an English speaking expert to explain it to me. ;->

[@marcinposmyk5617]

Jim Fortune We can have SBRs and supressors without paying extra 200 dollars but we have this "valid reason" shit

[@zedhiro6131]

Is I don't want to be invaded by Russia and Germany a valid reason? I joke but in a serious way.

[@dudesqr]

Zed Hiro I believe that's called defense of the homeland and would be incredibly valid lol

[@Jachettt]

supressors are illegal to use in poland.

[@VoluntaryPlanet]

People in Poland also don’t have self defense rights. Tak jak w każdym innym kraju Europejskim.

[@Clickmaster5k]

Can class a collectors own modern machine guns then? Are there any restrictions on what guns class A can have? What about destructive devices or cannons?

[@peregrinatus]

Just one point of difference I have with the chap you're interviewing. The firearms officer at my police station (you apply at the station responsible for the area you live in) recommended a sporting licence for my 1st pistol, all the law requires for that is that you prove is that you shoot from time to time and it's valid for twice as long as a self-defence licence. For the latter you have to prove specific risk to your life.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

Interesting vid, the bell ringing was around the neck of his pet cheetah, Bob.

[@CapitanADD]

I'm curious to know if there are any magazine restrictions like for instance in Canada?

[@daniedupreez6678]

No magazine restrictions in South Africa.

[@panzerdoga7402]

Is there restrictions on the caliber of bolt actions rifles. Could I own a tankgewehr for personal defense purposes?

[@keithjennings6187]

As long as it fits in a holster. :-p

[@jakkalsfuche4580]

You can have the anti tank rifle but you are going to have a very hard time when wrighting your motivation exsplaining why you need that gun. Thus they wil not grant you a permit

[@linds6609]

as long as you can motivate why you need it

[@gabrielfraser2109]

I'm pretty sure Amateur shooters aren't allowed anything bigger than .50 BMG. If you can motivate the need for a Designated license (Say you want to hunt T-Rex), you could theoretically get bigger ones.

[@zedhiro6131]

Couple of questions, how do the regulations impact the base price of the firearm and ownership? Is there a caliber restriction, and/restrictions on certain cartridges? Thanks.

[@zedhiro6131]

SnoutBaron Is that 200 rounds in total, or 200 rounds per gun or caliber? The reason I ask about caliber is some countries outlaw "military" calibers, and here in the US anything over .50 cal is considered a destructive device ie verboten.

[@jonathandalton2921]

the cost of ownership(paperwork and courses and certificates etc) isnt very high but the slowness of the system is discouraging for many. actual cost of firearms isnt that bad , considering most are imported not made local. at a local shop , Glock 19 (MOD:X 9MMP) was $970 . in the states , its about $600- 700? I think? similar prices for sig , beretta , etc. with the exception of chinese /turkish stuff , which is always on discount.

[@jakkalsfuche4580]

You can have 200 rounds of ammo for every calibre.. if you have sportsstatus you can have as much as you want

[@zedhiro6131]

I appreciate the answers to questions, I have another one if you will indulge me. What is the status of defensive ammunition (ie hollow points, +p) as opposed to standard FMJ? I figure hunting and defensive can do double duty on the rifle side. So Thanks.

[@CarlThom]

Hollow-points are fully legal. Unfortunately, most police officers are incompetent to the nth degree and I have heard reports of them trying to confiscate hollow points at roadblocks. The general advice in these situations is, comply with the officer's unreasonable demands, get proof that they confiscated your property (they have to issue a receipt) and head to the closest police station and lay a charge of theft against the officer. You might have to involve the Station Commander and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (our Internal Affairs).

[@Jarrow13]

I would like to correct some points that this gentleman made. Full Auto is allowed under specific circumstances for example a person who lives on a farm in very dangerous area, this license has to be renewed every 2 years. Also a manually operated shotgun can be registered as home defense firearm. The current firearms act (FCA of 2000) came into effect in 2004 with the help of Gun Free South Africa (who's main financier is Open Society owned by George Soros). The previous firearms act we had worked extremely well, the current FCA is a total mess, costs millions per year and has done nothing but punish law abiding South Africans. Some people can wait up to a year for a firearm. The gun laws in SA sucks under this government. Renewals are a hassle, I remembered a time where once a dedicated shooter, always a dedicated shooter and no limits on the amount of firearms you may own with no renewals as it is already registered to you.

[@Excedrine]

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

[@peregrinatus]

I think you've misread something there. The Section 14 licence is restricted weapon for self-defence, not prohibited weapon.

[@washingtonradio]

I think the basic point is not to cover all the nuances of SA gun law but to give an overview of the requirements for being able to own a gun and the basic restrictions. For someone like me who is not a South African, I found the overview of the basic system rather interesting of how the permits work and the various classifications.

[@rupertmcnaughtdavis7302]

Well said,Sir!

[@eezicar]

You are 110% correct! Semi automatic only for Section 14

[@SpoontheMoose]

What's sad is they have better laws then NYC ☹

[@johnritchie4801]

SpoontheMoose and why is that sad Should SA not gave better laws than nyc What is special about nyc

[@qaidikramuddin]

@@johnritchie4801 👍🏾

[@TontoKowalski2]

What I want to know is what are the financial requirements for the competency certificates. Are people who aren't well off still able to own firearms or is it means tested by fees?

[@CarlThom]

The proficiency training will usually cost around R1000 (75 USD) per module, with the law module + 1 other being mandatory. The other modules will be handgun, shotgun, manually operated rifle and self-loading rifle (semi-auto rifles). Most people only do law + handgun OR law + handgun + shotgun. This is if you only want something for self-defence. After your training, you will be provided with a certificate and a Statement of Results. You then head over to your local police station and pay another R70 (~5 USD) for the application. They will manually take your fingerprints. These will be sent to the Central Firearms Registry. They will do a criminal record check and then issue your Competency Certificate. This process takes around 3 months. You also can't license a shotgun if you doný have the shotgun competency. Same goes for handguns, rifles or SLR's. You also have to buy an approved safe before you can license a firearm. This adds to the cost of ownership.

[@trgtdron]

My brother-in-law is South African,funny only African-American I know and he is whiter than me, he talks about the "old" days there, he has been here 20 years.

[@Waldemarvonanhalt]

Towards the end of the vid, he did indirectly bring up something notable: there is a relatively limited selection of brands and firearm models available in-country. Here you can count the number of AR brands on your two hands, whereas in the USA they are legion and not limited to mid-range quality ones, for example. Glock pistols are prized, they're so rare.

[@murilo8507]

I Hope some day you do this in Brazil.

[@theloudamerican2193]

Ian, I would be curious to know the going rate of these different classes of firearms? Are they ridiculously priced like here in the USA?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

New production guns cost about the same as in the US; collectibles are mostly cheaper. Machine guns are quite cheap, because few people can legally buy them (ie, not much demand).

[@CarlThom]

Firearms imported from Europe is cheaper than those from the US, mainly due to the bureaucratic nightmare regarding ITAR and the like. Our Glocks, for instance, come directly from Austria. Unfortunately, some manufacturers don't export to SA anymore (for instance H&K) because our government managed to "divert" so many of their products to conflict zones in Africa. The few German handguns available here are mostly grey imports and finding mags, accessories and spares are difficult and expensive.

[@todorkolev7565]

you should have asked him what about size of the gun, weird shapes like thumbhole stocks and additional devices (silencer, bump stock)

[@TomRussellatAFA]

When I hunted in South Africa in 2000 I was able to get a permit to carry my 1911 while there. In fact I holstered up in the airport in Johannesburg airport. I'm assuming that's no longer allowed if they force their own citizen to go through background checks and competency tests.

[@prd6617]

sorry, off topic question other than LeMat gun that can shot pistol 42 caliber revolver and 20 gauge shotgun, are there any other gun like that in history that are made to shoot 2 different caliber bullet, rifle round + shotgun shell for example? not include grenade launcher attachment that are adapted on many modern rifle nowadays.

[@franchellevanheerden]

If i go hunting and get pulled over by a roadblock in SA, what can i do to prevent them from giving me a ticket or locking me up? I know one of the laws are there should not be a bullet in the chamber or in the magazine for instance while transporting the hunting rifle. Where can i keep my bullets? and what else should I be aware off?

[@corneliusvanantwerpen8110]

I know this is an old comment but incase this is still relevant: As long as you have a valid licence you can transport the firearm any way you see fit.

[@wildcat_reloading]

Also of you can motivate a 505 gibs for a sporting purpose then they allow it depends on the motivation

[@0214Bub]

Interesting stuff.

[@nathanhazelhoff3059]

Sounds similar to the gun laws of Canada in some ways, at least in terms of the certification requirements, background checks, and basic firearms classifications (e.g. prohib, restricted, "standard"). Like Canada, South Africa seems to have gun laws that are, dare I say, "too restrictive". One exception being self-defense. Here in Canada, self-defense is a huge grey area.

[@poacher-ec9zo]

Thanks

[@camscott6795]

Besides the long wait period sounds like a decent system

[@ThePreparedNorseman]

Would be interesting to know how it works with open/concealed carry in SA, are both legal?

[@jonathandalton2921]

permit to own , is permit to carry , all private carry is concealed carry. one carries there permit at all times , like a drivers permit . if its registered to you , and you can conceal it , you can legally carry it. private citizens do not "open carry" in public. open carry is for the range , and for hunting.

[@matandcat2506]

Very interesting video, although it seems youtube captions struggle just as much as i do with the south african accent!

[@kelvinbrown8136]

As a South African, that was quite useful to know thank you...

[@BeefaloBart]

Ian, did you get a chance to meet Matt Dubber while there in South Africa?

[@joshuabarrath7222]

Thx guys im only 16 but that helped me a ton on understanding the gun laws in SA🇿🇦✌

[@StephGrobler1]

Update: Court order says that Section 16 license (dedicated sport or hunting) requires no motivation. You can also use any licensed firearm for self defence, it doesn't matter for what is licensed. It also doesn't matter what you want to license for sport, you can license anything, unless it's full auto.

[@edrichlouw1790]

South African laws are fantastic in general. The problem is in the people on top and those who are supposed to enforce them. The one group feels that they are above the law and the other one is trying to set a world record for “most days without giving a F’”

[@KylieManur3]

A few other South African gun laws if anyone is interested: Silencers are over the counter purchases, which is nice. no Rifle barrel length regulations as long as you purchased it at that length, you cannot saw down barrels. no magazine size regulation. black powder guns are not considered firearms and are not regulated, nor are air guns under .25 caliber. It’s illegal to own ammunition for any firearm you are not licensed to own; so if you have a license for a 9mm pistol and you’re caught with a box of 45acp you can get into serious trouble with the law. Also, you can buy a firearm over the counter without any licensing in South Africa at a range and leave it there in the care of the range, but can’t take it home till you’re licensed. I may be wrong with some of these, it’s just my understanding currently, feel free to correct me if I am.

[@Shrike200]

You cannot cut down barrels *yourself* - you're perfectly entitled to get a gunsmith to do it though.

[@memecommandomike4659]

I think the limitation on air rifles is anything over 0.22 caliber with a muzzle energy of over 12J requires a license. That is why "0.22 caliber" air rifles are really 5.5mm becase technically it is under 0.22 caliber and much easier to import and sell. Also to add to your list of laws: you can only possess 200 rounds of ammunition per license and those 200 rounds must be able to be fired from the licensed firearm. But try to explain to your local gunshot why they should allow you to buy 410 shells for your Taurus Judge when your license says 45 Colt. Everyone except the guy who inspects the register knows its legal, but because he doesn't they are really hesitent to sell it to you.

[@hobdns5933]

@@memecommandomike4659 not 100 correct, 200 rounds is only restricted to self-defense license not sporting license

[@pietervanwyk6686]

Just a correction. You may hunt birds in SOME provinces with a semi auto shotgun, it depends on the hunting proclamation of the province. You can also get a endorsement for one for hunting. The is also another type of license. Section 14 allows you to license a semi auto rifle or shotgun for self defence if you stay in a rural area but the licence is only valid for 2 years and difficult to obtain.

[@hobdns5933]

Hi 2 questions License last five years (Which license)? Sporting or self defense ? U Can have four guns and the hand gun will be for self-defense (?does this apply to sporting license or self-defense) ?

[@himlowodinmire1333]

How would you go about replacing your guns if you have the standard 4 gun permit. like you want to upgrade or replace old or worn out guns. Is that allowed? Are you allowed to sell your old gun or do you have to destroy or turn it in?

[@jpnaude8919]

A registered and licensed gunsmith may replace barrels with the appropriate paperwork and permission from the CFR (Central Firearms Registrar). If you want to replace a complete gun with a new one or one of another caliber you need to hand it into the police or a firearms dealer to get it scrapped transferred from your name. You then have to go through the whole licensing process with the new gun, application, motivational letters etc. They work on a principle of new serial number, new gun. GOSA (Gun Owners South Africa) are now lobbying to get a person licensed and the gun registered, this would make much more sense than the current system.

[@antoniofdez620]

Interesting videos, i think in all countries except the US is all the same, you can have a firearm (no full autos, no semiautos in some countries) but you have to prove you need that firearm, you have to renew your license every 3 or 5 years or so.

[@daveidpliskin5026]

Doesent seem ideal, but doesent seem to bad either, the collector permit thing is something i always thought cool and i wish we had an Equivalent in the US

[@theodord3710]

Can you do one on Denmark (maybe its a too small country) Im a big fan of your videos

[@steveedwards6447]

Great work Ian, always look forward to your posts. Much has been in the media about US gun laws, re mass shootings and Australian gun laws and the gun buy back. Would love to see you do a topic on this. Or even just broad overview Australian gun culture. Keep up the great work.

[@johannlangner289]

The competency expire when your first firearm expire

[@johnstacy7902]

Did he mention that suppressors are unregulated?

[@CarlThom]

I don't know if he mentioned it, but yes they are. Completely. You don't even have to own a firearm to buy one.

[@requestcontainsinvalidargu185]

@@CarlThom it's like that in alot of countries tho. I guess buying a supressor by itself can be considerated buying a random metal cylinder for whatever.

[@CutieCoombs]

When we going to get better audio recording?

[@lloydabraham4739]

So my question is: if you have a hunting license, can you then bypass the category D and C and go straight to B ?

[@brianwyters2150]

What is the bell noise in the background?

[@proudamericanrobman2829]

So if you buy a handgun for self defense are you able to carry it on you our do you have to go threw a (ccw) type class down there?

[@CarlThom]

Yes. But you can also carry your sporting handgun on you and use it for self-defence.

[@onemoremisfit]

Around the world in countries where guns are still legal at all, the citizen must justify to the government a reason to possess the gun. In the US, the government must justify to the citizen a reason to not possess a gun.

[@dakotagist7526]

onemoremisfit except in cali where you need a reason to concealed carry

[@ShannonSouthAfrica]

America, my kind of country...

[@GB-sh9st]

I was in South Africa last year right -- I spoke with an ex-police officer from the Apartheid era who told me the gun laws for *her* were very different than for the general public.

[@jakkalsfuche4580]

Garrett Butler they where very different for civ's too.. we used to be able to have some firearms like a .22 without a license for example

[@memecommandomike4659]

They might have been very different in the past, but for the last 15 years or so the police have to follow the exact same gun laws as the citizens. The only thing they may do with the firearms they carry is to "display" them, which means to carry unconcealed, and they may only do that in full uniform. That exception also applies to appropriately accredited security guards and military personel on deployment (ie millitary police).

[@GB-sh9st]

I mean that the gun laws TODAY apply differently for police officers who formerly served in the Apartheid Government, such as the woman I talked to -- she is apparently restricted from owning any firearms, legally.

[@memecommandomike4659]

No, there is no special law or provision that prohibits them from owning firearms as a class. If she is prohibited then its under the same laws anyone else would be and that is on an individual basis. Essentially to be prohibited you must be found guilty of a crime where you are elligable to be declared unfit to possess a firearm and the court that finds you guilty must also declare you such. For many instances the declaration expires after five years unless it is a serious crime . That means she has been convicted of something pretty serious. If I speculate a little, my bet is that she got amnesty for something she did or was a part of during the Truth & Reconcilliation Commision and was declared unfit as a result of that.

[@snowflakecuntreeman3947]

​@@memecommandomike4659old comment i know, but round about when this comment was made the police and military were actually in hot water and had to let every firearm carrying individual do formal "faca" training, basically to the same standards that civilians had, like competency as in law, then for the different firearms. I did my faca training for my personal firearm in 2009 and only did my faca training to handle a R4 in 2019 😅🤣. Now the courts and the government wasn't too strict on the military but they hammered the police and anyone police officer who didn't do faca was refused a firearm. Thus the female officer the gentleman spoke to was probably talking about that, or option 2 and here it gets even funnier. Once police or military do their faca training via the department they don't get that faca certificate (competency certificate), so they did accredited training (sasseta) but the departments(DOD/SAPS) keep the certificates so i can't apply for the same firearm on civilian street, i need to do the training AGAIN 😅🤣. So i personally have a handgun competency and license, and i did the same accredited training for "fully automatic rifle" yet i can't use that certificate to apply for a semi auto version of the same rifle because they kept it. Soooo, the police officer did faca via SAPS, but can't use that certificate to apply for a private license because SAPS won't give it to her, thus she can't own a gun. And i think that is the case and the gentleman is just lost is translation, she isn't "PROHIBITED" from owning a firearm, she just "CAN'T" own a firearm because she hasn't done civilian faca (competency),... Well she did it, but they won't give her the certificate 😅😂. Oh the irony, works with a firearm everyday, goes home unarmed 🤦‍♂️

[@nicholaspease4807]

Hey forgotton weapons do you reply to comments

[@salluna1957]

The audio is always bad whyyyy????

[@sweatbandandy]

In some ways this seems to be even more restrictive than the UK, which really surprises me. But then they have the collector categories, which are far less restrictive. Seems like a sensible system to me.

[@eubo383]

What does the South African law say about 3D printed firearms and build at home /bought over the internet type firearms. Are there loopholes for these or are they illegal?

[@reubenlouw5932]

3d printed firearms are illegal but why is still quite unclear, but firearms purchased over the internet are legal because those firearms are still registred

[@zachbrummett9672]

I am kinda envious of South Africa being able to own a full auto as a collector even with the legal shenanigans I'm sure they are substantially cheaper than fully transferable guns I would love to see a system like that in the us I'd be more than happy to jump through the legal loops I'd rather they not be there but growing up poor really makes a man be willing to jump through hoops to not spend 20-30 k on an ak

[@CarlThom]

But it takes many years to become a Category A collector and the safekeeping, admin and other issues make it almost impossible. There is only a handful of them in the country.

[@iwanovanrooyen6360]

LOL, so under SA law a Gatling Gun is technically a manually operated rifle! ( See Ian's video on the Bulldog reproduction Gatling Gun - all the loading/unloading in a Gatling Gun happens with cranking the handle - no gas or inertia systems - hence it is well and truly manually operated, albeit at high speed. )

[@hookedupboer]

> Waited 6 months for my first rifle, with Dedicated Hunter status. Interestingly, all of these things need to be renewed at various time intervals. The Dedicated Hunter status for instance, requires you to submit 3 or more "Activities" a year in order to maintain the status. These include reloading, target shooting, competitions, hunting trips etc. Competency (psych eval + home inspection + safe inspection etc.) needs to be renewed every 5 years or so, and, depending on the firearm, the actual weapon permit needs to be renewed every 5 to 10 years. Each firearm type requires specific certification, pistol, shotgun, bolt gun, semi etc. and is linked to your competency certification. Lots of paperwork! Interesting trivia, suppressors are not regulated! All my rifles are suppressed. Suck it!

[@hookedupboer]

> Pics of the rifle if anyone is interested :) imgur.com/a/JYSIslC

[@outko24]

Beautiful bolt gun, but honestly I wouldn't give up my ar15s or other semi auto rifles for suppressors especially because you guys gotta register all your guns out there. Greetings from Canada though, where suppressors are banned and we only really register handguns.

[@memecommandomike4659]

I always tell my American friends that the gun laws in SA are reversed to those in the US. They can walk into a shop and leave with a gun and it takes us 9 months to get one. We can walk into a shop and leave with a suppressor and it takes them 9 months to get one :-)

[@richardzippler3330]

correct me if I'm wrong, but in the United States if you want a machine gun you have to have a class 3 firearms license but that means you can also own a bazooka with that license .They need to come up with a class 3A that just says you get is a machine gun. just a thought..

[@tac6557]

What about Muzzle Loaders or Black Powder based?

[@tac6557]

Do you think gun rights are improving?

[@daniedupreez6678]

No. The Open Society Foundation of George Soros are active in South Africa and they have the ear of government officials. It is only with gigantic efforts by gun owners organizations that gun ownership are not eroded further.

[@brookbank]

im reallly dispointed in the sound quality. alot of videos now are not up to par. you should be able to take your recording equipment with you.

[@djowen5192]

Do one on the UK, won't take long!

[@albdavidt1335]

_"Do one on the UK":_ Start: Can you own... *NO!* End

[@ShannonSouthAfrica]

Lol

[@DewaldPierreNel]

It's like this for a reason, crime here are high enough for most people to pay an armed response company to protect their house, company...they pay for alarms, electric fence, beams, cameras.. so all of this is taxable income. Over here crime literally does pay. So if a civilian can easily get a firearm, less people will feel the need for paying extra for external protection because most criminals would fear crime more since everybody's armed right? So owning a firearm is very possible, but the procedure is quite a headache and takes ages, sometimes you have to re submit your application, they throw away your application on a regular basis, happened to me twice. So all this is pretty much the way they disarm the public.

[@wildcat_reloading]

Semi autos aren't really restricted, same license proses as manual operted, depends on how you motivate it