Socialism Does NOT Work | Daniel Hannan | Oxford Union

Daniel Hannan gives his argument that Socialism does not work.
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Daniel Hannan opens with a quote from a from a previous socialist known as Adolf Hitler. The socialist voters elevated cohersion over freedom. The human nature of dog eat dog and ambition to do well was harnessed by capitalism to a socially useful end. He highlights that there are no socialist countries in the wolrd today (e.g. Cuba, Zimbabwe etc) that have persormed better than capitalist one. He concludes his rousing speech with by saying socialism does not work and the house must vote for freedom.
Filmed on Thursday 28th November 2013
MOTION: This House Believes Socialism Will Not Work.
RESULT: Motion Defeated
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ABOUT DANIEL HANNAN:
Daniel John Hannan is a British journalist, author and politician who is a Member of the European Parliament, representing South East England for the Conservative Party. He is also the Secretary-General of the Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists (AECR). An advocate of localism and a Eurosceptic, Hannan earned worldwide fame for making a speech in the European Parliament criticising Gordon Brown.
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Filmed by Oxford Media Solutions www.oxfordmediasolutions.co.uk

[@Jester123ish]

May Oxford continue to hold debates where the rest of the world is shutting them down.

[@redwater4778]

This wasn't a debate for there was no rebuttal

[@Kaspisify]

@@redwater4778 Maybe not a clear rebuttal but the socialists get their say in other clips, same occasion.

[@redwater4778]

@@Kaspisify Yes I see now . This man was playing to part of the court jester . Then the socialists come through in Part II

[@Cagliostro85]

Hear hear.

[@redwater4778]

@brjema1 The UK was socialist before Margret Thatcher . Sweden Holland West Germany Finland Norway Belgium Most Euro countries were socialist before the Reagan era .

[@zootsoot2006]

His best point imo: judge socialism in practice, not in theory.

[@cosmozappa3573]

that's a great argument if the examples of socialism put in place have, in most cases, collapsed either by their own fault or because they were mined from the exterior. it's a great argument if you want to be deceitful. if you don't, and you recognise that the base theory is a good one, then your goal would be to find a way to put it in practice so that the theory does not degenerate once it touches reality. that's what the goal of a great politician should be.

[@zootsoot2006]

@@cosmozappa3573 Hey everyone, we've finally found the guy who can make it work! Just give up all your personal rights to a guy who sounds like Frank Zappa's forgotten love child and you can finally have utopia.

[@cosmozappa3573]

@@zootsoot2006 I cannot make anything work by myself. you still have your individualist filters turned on. we will only be able to achieve something under community-driven policies, community-managed resources, etc. it is certainly not about the state nor the market. it is about finding structures that surpass them. if you live in the UK start by looking into what the Community Land Trusts are doing. it is not utopia, it is being made.

[@cosmozappa3573]

@@zootsoot2006 and while you're at it you might also want to check what is it that you consider your "personal rights". given that the majority of european countries have a planet-footprint that averages around four (that's 4) planet earths, it might be that what you consider your "rights" are in reality "rights" that have been stolen from someone else. not an easy preposition to accept once your high up that pedestal of privilege, but an important one to let slowly sink in nevertheless.

[@AlbanianRW]

@@cosmozappa3573 The theory is just that, a theory. Putting it in practice does not work because once you start taking more from those who earn more (because they have worked hard and smart) and giving more to those who work less or not at all, those who make more will start making less because the effort they used to put won't be worth it anymore, and that's why socialism will never work. Utopias are fantasies, and socialism is based on a fantasy because it doesn't take into consideration human nature. Capitalism is the way, because you either go right or go wrong and destroy countries and lives.

[@bornFreeDocu]

I am a south korean. and even in south korea where we have north korea next to us. where we know the horror of north korea by socialism ideology. young koreans want socialism. tells us how powerful the temptation of wanting to be lazy and irresponsible as a human is. as a human we must first be brutally honest to ourselves before we choose what is best for us. honestly is the best policy ^^

[@jadonlawrence4909]

What do you mean by "temptation of wanting to be lazy and irresponsible as human is"???

[@utilitymonster8267]

Perhaps they realize that Juche has very little to do with socialism. The ‘temptation’ for socialism stems from the realization that the problems of our societies are caused by something fundamental, and therefore need a fundamental change. Socialism isn’t more or less lazy than capitalism; in both systems you have to work. If anything, socialism is less lazy. For in socialism, it is impossible to earn money based on anything else than hard work (necessity being the exception).

[@Louis-qo7tf]

Politics alone doesn’t make a country work well. It’s the people and culture that matters the most

[@calvin659]

Capitalism and democracy can’t guarantee that a country works well but any countries thing clings to Socialism or Communism will always be authoritarian with zero human rights.

[@johnmcdonald9304]

"The goal of socialism is communism''. Vladimir Lenin.

[@savethewest4129]

And the goal of communism is the fulfillment of Talmudic prophecy

[@wildlyoptimistic1352]

And no one knows what form communism will take. It will evolve into the utopian society. For this to happen you have to tear down all the existing social structures. Destroy everything so that perfection can arise. I guess perfection/communism was first tried amongst the cave dwellers 20000 years ago. I know this sounds like total hogwash but look at what the useful idiots are doing. Check out this interview. It was an eye opener. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpnZf2mOlNCMmdU

[@Heavysscreams]

@@wildlyoptimistic1352 Your name suits your facile post

[@mossad_agent946]

Joooos .......

[@SgtSteel1]

1:30 Jeremy Corbyn hmmmm

[@alians1978]

Socialism is good, say every socialist who never lived a day under socialism.

[@RaskaTheFurry]

My country was socialist, under iron curtain. Every our history books says it was bad. People lost their jobs over political ideas and not being in the party. One of my teacher's teacher was executed for disagreeing with government and nobody could attend his funeral...

[@Elite_agent_Miko]

Im not a socialist myself but if People knew just a little bit more about socialism in theory i think it would make the topic alot more interesting than just alot of People saying socialism is bad and yes so far we have alot of exaples on that but the point is that there are different kinds of socialism that we haven't seen in practice yet so why don't we ever talk about them and what it would actually take to make it function

[@RaskaTheFurry]

@@Elite_agent_Miko well... there are different types of socialism, in theory. But there is this... our world is run by practice, when you give state a lot of power, no matter the socialism type, it will always end up bad.

[@skateboardcz]

@@Elite_agent_Miko pls don't be the: We never tried the real Socialism/Communism guy. Both is good in theory, but fails in practice. I was communist when I was teen, getting fed by lies. I woke up and saw the truth.

[@Elite_agent_Miko]

@@skateboardcz im not that Guy i simply statet that we haven't seen some of the different types of socialism but sure odds Are that you're right

[@YandryPozo]

I'm from Cuba and I invite those who clapped for socialists to come for only a month, they deserve it.

[@selimfurkandalgic9548]

I hope you escaped Cuba and doing okey bro.

[@hornyconvict]

You should be putting at least some of the blame on the US embargo and US intervention. At least you guys have healthcare. There's literally Americans who travel to Cuba, Canada, or other countries for healthcare so as to not go bankrupt in America.

[@tdb517]

@Hello World I don't understand people just yelling "cuba" as if it is the worst example on earth. It's actually pretty successful on many levels, compared to other countries of Latin America.

[@Anatoliandude7]

@@tdb517 nope chilea is doing much better

[@mhenrique4860]

@@tdb517 KGB : No, it'is not..

[@sonofdurin8044]

This is the most British thing I’ve watched in a while

[@chairmanbunker4418]

I suppose it is a very British thing to defend an inhuman system which causes 20 million preventable deaths per year an allows for 6 people to own half of the wealth on earth. Fuck him

[@megapeiron]

@@chairmanbunker4418 Yes, socialism is evil.

[@appleslover]

Exactly! It's VERY british to defend and support exploitation of the poor and the genocide of the "others"

[@karlhans4116]

@@appleslover what the freak is exploitation of poor? Do you realize that wealth is made by creating wealth. 200 years ago world didn't even had 1/20th of today's world.. wealth is not fixed wealth can be created and only through capitalism you can achieve economic growth and better living standard for everyone

[@indradutta8289]

@@chairmanbunker4418 ha ha Britain talking about inhuman system good joke mate

[@blakedavis2447]

This is the most British person I’ve ever seen

[@fibrespider4502]

@Robertson Thirdly Ever heard of Jacob Rees Mogg?

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

This is the most idiotic person I have ever seen, he could almost be american

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

@Tom B I am not even talking about political views, the way he replies to the critique is honestly idiotic, I have no idea what other way to put it, if he were an anarchist, a conservative liberal, a marxist or whatever, it wouldn't matter, the way he behaves is just idiotic

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

@Tom B The young man made a valid point and was silenced with a stupid remark about North Korea, which had nothing to do with it whatsoever. The woman was quite impolite, but made a pretty valid point too, he was constantly comparing extreme socialist dictatorships to a very vague discription of his idea of a free market system which he seemed to bend and stretch as he pleased. When you have a look a the other parts of the debate where Corbyn talks, he gives real examples which are valid for the UK and remains rational even though he gets constantly interrupted quite brutally.

[@belgianvanbeethoven]

@Tom B There are no 100% socialist states in the world these days, and there are no countries with an entirely unregulated free market, extreme socialism does not work and neither does extreme capitalism. The awnser is as always compormise, the middle road, what makes our european nations the leaders of the world when it comes to wealth, health and education is the way we found a marriage between liberal socialist ideas and capitalist economy. So using Cuba as the example and comparing it to the UK proves nothing but the fact that Cuba has a troubled history and that implementing socialist ideas makes great western nations.

[@onetwo19]

The first questioner is himself a strong argument against socialism. The lady got lost on her way to a sjw protest.

[@jeremyhook1818]

Who's looking after both their cats?

[@guywhousesyewtube]

Wtf? Were you even listening? He didn't even properly answer the first questioner. The first question's primary concern was the condition of initial inequality in capitalist systems such as the obvious and well documented advantage children of wealthier families have over others. His answer was a complete strawman; speaking about North Korea/ South Korea instead of addressing the actual content. The guy may as well have said "how do you rationalize the negative effects of wealth inequality with your perception of freedom under a capitalist society" and he responded with 'NORTH KOREA, SOUTH KOREA SOCIALISM BAD'. South Korea had some of the highest growth from the 1960s to 80s. Previously it was one of the poorest. Since the 1980s the South Korean economy has been progressing quite well according to pretty much every source I could find. (Discounting widespread recession forces such as global events.) This answer was so obviously botched and unintelligent from any objective perspective. He's correct about a lot of things in the video. He's straight up wrong and misleading on many of his points as well. The response to this guy is a perfect example. Here's a chart that makes it clear how utterly bullshit citing South Korea beside North Korea is www.newgeography.com/content/002060-the-evolving-urban-form-seoul As a bonus it shows growth approximately parallel to the US after the 1980s. It should have been immediately obvious to everyone watching that his answer was charismatic bullshit when he didn't even address the point. Depressing to see so many comments praising a guy making speeches devoid of worthy citation and data references as if charisma is a proper substitute.

[@drsch]

@@guywhousesyewtube He answered it perfectly find. You cannot name a single free, capitalistic, democratic society in which people do not have the opportunity to have their daily bread and do not have the opportunity to get a good education. It was a stupid question that was predicated on a false and unrealistic pretense. He answered it just fine. If you're starving or uneducated in a free, democratic, capitalistic society, the fault is your own.

[@rauminen4167]

@@guywhousesyewtube In my assessment you're speaking from the viewpoint of an envious, dumb person, who can not fathom what to do with the great freedom and opportunity provided to them, rather wants to get told what to do and have everything handed to them. Inequality is a constant, it's part of the human condition. But that is fine! Because change is a constant too - only by providing equal opportunity can we create anything that resembles a fair society. There's only one time when people are truly equal. In death. The usual minimum-effort weapon of choice for governments to get us there is starvation.

[@bluefmi]

@Starship Trooper the socialists will either sell your shoes to pay for the bullet or starve you to death while force-working you in the tundra commies are the most hated people on this planet. they are literally starving other commies to death on most occasions. in the name of good. just look at venezuela. look at holodomor.

[@robertjulius2440]

this.. is what capitalists actually believe? they use north korea vs south korea as socialism vs capitalism?

[@ultimateloser3411]

When each person has their own specific meanings of words and terms, then the logical next step is to find common grounds. However, people today just polarize each other and get angry about the difference we have.

[@KarlSnarks]

Yeah and describing Hitler as a socialist just because he used the label for his party, is a great example of that polarization

[@sterlingcurry7109]

he literally made up his own definition of socialism and then compared socialists to Hitler i think hes polarized enough

[@ThumpRat]

@@KarlSnarks Read the the 25-point Program of the NSDAP and tell me at least half aren't socialist policies?

[@kiranvasishta9763]

@@KarlSnarks Except Hitler was a socialist.

[@KarlSnarks]

@@kiranvasishta9763 He was backed by wealthy capital owners and promised them to get rid of the communists and socialists in the country, and also killed the more left-leaning (but still shitty racist) faction of his party, the Strasserists. He also privatized a lot of public services.

[@jamshedfbc]

The best argument in favor of socialism is that it sounds so good. The best argument against socialism is that it does NOT work. Thomas Sowell.

[@gravypatron]

My man, Sowell.👍

[@redwater4778]

@Gypsyscotty9 You just described a capitalist government.

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

+Jamshed Arslan - right, that's why Medicare funded healthcare has a tiny percentage of overhead costs, $0 in executive bonuses and $0 in stockholder payouts, while the private healthcare system has huge overhead costs including massive, dishonest marketing campaigns and billions in corporate executive pay and stockholder dividends. Care to rephrase your bullshit argument?

[@redwater4778]

@Gypsyscotty9 Capitalist governments are weak to the will of the corporations . They lower their tax contributions to society.

[@bobshuwab1988]

Free health care, schools, the emergency services, public libraries, swimming baths, street lights, roads - all paid by us through taxes and provided to all regardless of our social standing. No wonder Tories want to attack these socialist ideas, they've clearly never worked.

[@anthemoftheheart9497]

Ayn Rand said "The difference between a Socialist state and a totalitarian one is just a matter of time."

[@fredgillespie5855]

Mark Camm - The very same thing can be said of a capitalist society in case you never noticed. And bye the way, if your read Ayn Rand carefully you will see that she is in fact a fascist and that should be no great surprise because the end state of Capitalism is fascism. (I am nether a socialist of a communist.)

[@fredgillespie5855]

@Mark Sesum - Well Mark my perception of society comes from long personal experience and observation. Perhaps your's comes from viewing society from youthful nativity or through rose tinted glasses. Stick around and we will see who is right.

[@fredgillespie5855]

@Mark Sesum - Should be naivety NOT nativity.

[@eduard6491]

I can see how from her experiences in the USSR after the revolution Rand would hold those beliefs but not all socialismS are the same just like all capitalismS are all the same. I doubt that Rand would oppose socialist programs like free public schools, roads, parks all funded thru communal taxes just like she didn’t oppose social security when she came of age in the US. Lets not confuse state-run capitalism (what happened in the USSR ) with socialism

[@anthemoftheheart9497]

@@eduard6491 When you say 'Not all socialisms are the same', can you give me an example of a good one? Nothing is really free, someone somewhere is picking up the tab. There are socialist values that should be adhered to such as education, health, pensions and welfare, for those who cannot provide for themselves, but the money for these benefits has to come from private enterprise. Free market capitalism, albeit controlled to prevent monopolisation, seems to have a proven track record. No system is perfect but that should be the aim. Perhaps we should be teaching children the importance of helping eachother, respect, manners and morals. These seem to be working very well in places like Japan. Creativity should be encouraged but not at the expense of society as a whole. The emphasis should be balanced between the individual and the community, knowing their responsibilities, as well as their rights. I too am neither a socialist nor a fascist.

[@erichyde2581]

I took a shot of whiskey everytime this man blinked and finished completely sober.

[@psychominded3243]

😂

[@mkaur5562]

This is the same guy who believes Anglo Saxon genes are superior! 👀

[@SilverBioWolf]

just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are a racial supremacist anyways clicking on your channel saw the yoga vids in your playlists I would recommend yoga with Adrienne that's normally where I go also as a side note there is a weird relation fasting and yoga if you ever feel like trying it don't eat for like 12 or 16 hours then do yoga I think because you don't have any inflammation in your body it goes way smoother and its easier to get into a trance anyways have a nice day.

[@ForeverShadowBanned]

Yeah that's why they got their asses kicked by the Vikings and were eventually conquered by them. Anglo Saxons were weak and is why they were ripe for the taking.

[@corporateraider9766]

@@ForeverShadowBanned well, they then ended up taking over a quarter of the planet and ridding it of evils such as feudalist France, Napoleon, Pirates, Slavery, World War 1, Adolf Hitler, World War 2, helping in ousting The USSR, recognizing Stalin for what he was etc. Ironically, it was Britain that freed all these Viking nations from the yoke of Nazis which many of them readily adopted themselves

[@harrywebsters2318]

Christ almighty, if the people interjecting are educators then no wonder we're in the state that we're in.

[@mattmatt7305]

These people are educating our young, and we need to root them out before they destroy us all.

[@DreDredel3]

@@mattmatt7305 I agree, but i wouldn't call it education, more like, indoctrination - a one sided indoctrination. Making students pay thousands of their hard earned money to just be indoctrinated and leave the university un-educated. Case in point, we saw how rude they interrupted the speaker, showing a lack of manners, very uncivilized.

[@danielfinch362]

Oxford Professors trying to hijack the debate by arguing against their own dictionary because it doesn't fit their narrative. Moving the goal post to fit the current narrative is a typical leftarded tactic.

[@DreDredel3]

@@danielfinch362 imagine trying to play Chess or Monopoly with them, they would change the rules of the game everytime they saw they were loosing. Very unsportsmanlike of those leftist professors.

[@will1603]

I don't believe that debating is a new phenomenon. It's what they get taught in their private schools. All the politicians in Westminster have been talking like this for ages. She was quite emotional but she waited to interject and then stopped once he resumed his talk. Seemed fair enough to me

[@jeanhenly343]

at a communist meeting : 1st communist to another comrade would you give your house to help another comrade he replies yes comrade of course 1st comrade asks again and comrade would you give your car to help another comrade he replies yes comrade of course 1st comrade then asks and comrade would you give your shirt to help another comrade he replies no I would not 1st comrade is shocked and asks why not 1st comrade replies because I have a shirt 😁

[@jaradrichardsC137]

I dont get the last line

[@jeanhenly343]

@@jaradrichardsC137 oops I made a mistake 2nd comrade replies because I have a shirt the joke is that he is happy to give away all the things he does not have

[@phuckerby]

Corbyn would give you the shirt of his back for the poor, but there is no one so poor as would want it!

[@phuckerby]

@Hater Oftheleft With the help of the unions, don't get me wrong I've got nothing against unions, I was a union member for most my working life, they just got to carried away and greedy!

[@davidschmidt6013]

@Hater Oftheleft EXACTLY!

[@Ryutai7]

that's a really slow way to say you don't understand what socialism is

[@gtxoiltastebad]

I used to be a socialist. Until I understood what socialism really means. .

[@ramonestrada8452]

then u werent a socialist lol

[@gtxoiltastebad]

@@ramonestrada8452 Of course... 'mY sOcIaLiSmm Is bEtTeR .... yOU hAvN't rEaLlY TrIeD "

[@znanoofficial4437]

@@ramonestrada8452 he just said he was a socialist.... or did he notice something you havent yet?

[@kysfoo2324]

@@ramonestrada8452 do you not know how to read

[@mariocamoes401]

What does it mean then? Did democracy scare you off?

[@simoncambourne25]

"Don't make the mistake of judging socialism as a textbook theory but judging capitalism by it's necessarily imperfect outcomes. Judge like with like..."

[@bcshu2]

Don S sure. One is predicated on the use of force and the other requires only voluntary consent. In practice and in theory.

[@jonnybgoode7742]

@@domdonald absolutely correct

[@redwater4778]

@@domdonald You are living the reality of late stage capitalism

[@redwater4778]

@bs itis Can you name a capitalist country that doesn't have debt as a result of low corporate taxes. ? Not just Nat debt but state or provincial debt and municipal debt .

[@redwater4778]

@bs itis Capitalist countries have been assuming debt since the Reagan era with the lowering of corporate tax . Capitalism has evolved to Corporatism.

[@grimupnorth9336]

Like Milton Friedman said, "it's always the other guy that's greedy"

[@jeanhenly343]

yes it's the same guy that supports higher taxes (hes totally cool with it) but always for other people

[@markmahabir6342]

For rich people!

[@willnitschke]

Exactly. When a socialist calls a capitalist greedy he means he wants the capitalists stuff.

[@maikeru1990]

Would someone please recommend some videos of Mr. Friedman to watch? Thanks!

[@Tespri]

@@maikeru1990 All of them. But you should watch his series free to choose.

[@jackmaher4466]

Notice the lady defending socialism does not live in a socialist country.

[@Chooopy]

I don't like when people never give voice to those that actually live in socialist countries. I have a friend that lives in a socialist country. The government says she loves living under socialism.

[@Ryan-kr7jz]

notice the french revolutionaries in imperial France was not living in a democratic country

[@hansproebsting7391]

There are no socialist countries.

[@Ryan-kr7jz]

@@hansproebsting7391 laughs in cuba

[@hansproebsting7391]

@@Ryan-kr7jz Cuba is a fascist dictatorship. No socialism there. Will you try to tell me that the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic?

[@LetsPlayRez]

I may not agree with every point of contention made- but let me be the first to say that this gentleman is an amazing speaker. His cadence and delivery, the passion with which he obviously held for the topic- it was astonishing. Wonderful job.

[@xxtarlancxx8422]

i mean he is completely wrong with almost everything - but yes, it's very well delivered

[@llanesjoshua1961]

It's like praising Hitla's speech because of his delivery not because of the content of his speech

[@joeyketch17]

7:20 this guys clap should be made into a meme

[@abechung4738]

God damn. It's perfect.

[@gunshow86de]

Have at it... media.giphy.com/media/QxpOx45ZQ7XFCth6Ct/giphy.gif

[@wariyoshidirector]

God his fucking face says it all. It's a shame that a meme couldn't capture the context this was in because it's just so perfect.

[@vaisakhgopinath555]

Yes🤣

[@kannabi]

does the woman realise she's in the fucking OXFORD UNION!?!?! sit the fuck down hen, this isn't the house of commons.

[@HoThong0204]

"The goal of socialism is communism''. Vladimir Lenin

[@HoThong0204]

@@bing4126: It's true. As a Vietnamese, I know exactly socialism is. Vietnam was a socialist country. We tended to become communist country. But it was failed miserably. Now Vietnam gradually applies Capitalism, so it's getting better. Hopefully, we can get rid out of all socialism in Vietnam.

[@HoThong0204]

@@bing4126 : Not really. Most of Vietnamese love capitalism because it offers a lot of opportunities to run business and have jobs. Socialism and Communism are evils. They kill much more people than any regime even Nazis. You can see around the world like Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. People live in these countries don't have freedom of speech, press, ..... Normal people are very poor, only socialist politician are super rich and powerful. Nobody can raise voice to challenge them. If you want socialism, please go to China, North Korea and Venezuela to know exactly pure socialism is.

[@HoThong0204]

@@bing4126 : I'm proud of it !! All younger Vietnamese generation love democracy and capitalism. So sad that you live in democracy country but hate democracy. So sad !!

[@HoThong0204]

@@bing4126 : US is a Republic. It's even better than pure democracy.

[@MK-ur4vy]

I mean that’s literally the point set out by Marx. Socialism is the first step; to seize the means of production.

[@edmundkempersdartboard173]

I'm American. This man has a British accent. I am convinced.

[@PierreAudiger]

Tory explaining socialism doesn’t work…a cat explaining to birds how flying is overrated

[@willnitschke]

Or maybe people just don't want a dictator to run their country while the rest of population eat out of garbage bins? Maybe the simplest explanation is the correct one. ;-)

[@MMDelta9]

Oh then please, explain to us how socialism *does* work. I'll wait.

[@new_ale]

Guy who believes socialism doesn't work is a Tory

[@user-oo6qk2fj9h]

He should've replied to the old feller by saying that most of the members in Stalin's gulags were also socialists and communists.

[@electricpants8194]

@@billclinton3862 trotskyites are also socalists and communists

[@Marade]

@@billclinton3862 trotskyites are also socalists and communists

[@electricpants8194]

@@billclinton3862 they literally are lol it's a branch of commhnisn. Stalinism isn't thr only form of communism

[@electricpants8194]

@@billclinton3862 then why do you say trotskyites aren't communist

[@electricpants8194]

@@billclinton3862 what

[@NoGoodHandlesComingToMind]

Daniel Hannan's voice is staggeringly resilient against his innocently-voiced, socialism-apologist opponents.

[@pg3811]

@BLAIR M Schirmer Denmark is a very capitalist country by all measures, ranked higher on economic liberties than France and Germany. They just have higher taxes. China got prosperous by turning capitalist, as all economists would agree. And the bit about the USSR is plainly wrong, probably based on highly unreliable USSR data. Try Hong Kong or Switzerland instead for actual productivity and growth gains.

[@nozirohhh]

@BLAIR M Schirmer Fuck your utopian desires. It's not gonna work, just as the 1000 dollars free for everyone.

[@colinD98]

@BLAIR M Schirmer @BLAIR M Schirmer denmark is not a socialist nation big brain boy, ussr and ccp are horrible repressive systems that will force you to work, ofc it's effective, or they'd 're- educate' you and your entire family. Leave it up to the nutjobs to defend authoritarian regimes that will throw you in a pit if you don't do what you're told 'cApItaaliSm Is BaDdd' he said using a platform created by capitalists

[@Christian-lt5ix]

BLAIR M Schirmer is the arse that part of the body in which your father conceived you, and your mother birthed you? Is it your safe space? “Sigh”

[@seanaaron7888]

D H #YangGang #NEETlife

[@splinterbyrd]

Typically of this line of argument, Hannan ignores the fact that both fascism and communism originated in the 19th century, when capitalism was at it's most well capitalist

[@bobhabib7662]

The word may have originated then but modern Fascism was literally invented by Mussolini in the 20's. Either way, it has little to do with capitalism.

[@mattm7798]

What is your point? A bad idea is a bad idea.

[@whitesquirrel4131]

I never met anyone from a communist / socialist country who was upset over leaving it, but only for those left behind.

[@willnitschke]

@@tomasmccauley569 Bolivia is a socialist sh*thole and its people among the poorest in the world. Based on economic freedom scales, Portugal is not Socialist and has been moving away from it. Which is why it's standard of living has improved over time. It may reverse (adopt Socialism) and turn into a sh*thole again. That is always possible.

[@MMDelta9]

@@tomasmccauley569 "in 1977 the government led by Mário Soares was forced to call the IMF because Portugal was in bankruptcy, and in 1983 Mário Soares was forced to ask for foreign aid for the same reasons. It was by this time that Soares himself said that it was necessary to “put Socialism in the drawer.” Having failed the nationalization policy, the PortugueseLeft soon discovers another solution to make the country grow: public works and incentives for consumption. So, the government started to build roads, bridges, viaducts, cultural centers, football stadiums and even an airport that is now without planes. Did it work? Did Portugal becamericher? No. Portugal goes into bankruptcy for the third time and has to call once again the IMF. Having all failed, what then remains to the Portuguese Left as a solution to develop the country? And the answer is nothing. Nothing, because the Left has not changed its old recipe: to continue to intervene in the economy, to encourage domestic consumption - thus leading households to get into debt - and to maintain high taxes that prevent the creation of new businesses and drive away foreign investment." Taken from João Cerqueira writing for El Hispano News. *3 bankruptcies in less than 100 years is a very weird description of "doing pretty well."* Ah but what about Bolivia with it's marginal but undeniable economic growth, I hear you ask? "When we take a closer look at this supposed beacon of socialism, we find that much of the reason it has been able to succeed is because President Morales has allowed varying degrees of capitalism to exist in the Bolivian economy. And because of these market elements, Bolivia finds itself faring far better than Maduro’s Venezuela." "When we look at Bolivia’s economy, it is very important to first understand the factors that are causing its economic boom. First, natural gas plays a huge role in its economy, accounting for 45 percent of its exports. And while this resource is nationalized, it does not mean that the state is in complete control. In Bolivia’s case, the state gets to share in the profits of private companies rather than controlling the means of production outright. And while this is in no regards a free market policy, it is less socialist than the practices of the Venezuelan economy, a distinction that matters greatly." "Bolivia is nowhere near as “militant” as Venezuela when it comes to enforcing socialist policies. On the contrary, the only reason Bolivia has been able to thrive in recent years is that it has incorporated elements of a free market economy. This, in effect, puts the degree of socialism actually practiced in Bolivia far lower than that of Venezuela." "True, Bolivia does have a generous welfare state, but while this may be an aspect that comes with socialism, the redistribution of wealth is only a supporting feature and not a defining characteristic of this economic philosophy. This puts Bolivia in the same camp as Nordic countries, that, while praised for being examples socialist success stories, are actually using the fruits of basically capitalist economies to fund their welfare states." "The entrepreneur is one of the most important elements of a free market economy. And if you want to know just how tyrannical a government is, see how it treats its entrepreneurial citizens. In the case of Bolivia, President Morales has allowed the entrepreneur to create value, or rather, he has looked the other way as informal markets have sprung up-something that Venezuela’s Maduro has not done." Author Brittany Hunter. To call Bolivia a socialist success is to only tell half the story and ignore the fact that the success of Bolivia came from capitalist efforts to (at least partially) deregulate and decentralize it's economy. Same is true in China. China only saw economic growth when they relaxed their socialist policies and allowed free(er) markets to grease the wheels of the economy. China may have a lot of power, but it still uses slave labour in many cases, something you lefty weasels decry in the West, even tho slavery was abolished centuries ago. You're just lying about socialist success stories, mate. In every instance of "socialist success," once you scratch the surface you find no success at all (Portugal) or that said success was only achieved by relaxing or removing socialism altogether (Bolivia and China).

[@blondezeke6640]

That's funny because all the Cubans in America are ones who Castro took away their granddad's slaves and a lot of white retires go to Vietnam to live

[@RobinLundqvist]

that one guy clapping at every heckler haha. his face was red like a tomato the whole time.

[@scottmichael3745]

You can tell he was pissed. And he later argues socialism does work. Haven't watched it yet.

[@eyeq7730]

@@scottmichael3745 You wont find the dominant archetypal male sitting left of center...ever. These are weak sneaky males influenced by dominant feminist women who are pro socialism.

[@harryweisner99x]

They're not hecklers lmao

[@RobinLundqvist]

@Harry Weisner yea but I can’t tell the difference

[@Skellotronix]

@@eyeq7730 I've noticed a lot of dudes I've met are very weak and lazy when it comes to anything but their videogames and the like. Why? What the hell happened?

[@muckypuck]

Bravo! From an American in Arizona, a great man is he!

[@matthewlacey5307]

and he is not just a Tory MP but he writes a weekly article for a national newspaper here. He cuts to the chase every week.

[@vasili1207]

Great commy yes he is

[@johnnydugas1970]

*socialism doesn't work if you don't know what socialism is

[@qqqalo]

"our adoption of the term 'socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian socialism" - Adolf Hitler.

[@MMDelta9]

In other words... "Marx wasn't *really* a socialist. My socialism is "true" socialism." Adolf Hitler.

[@darthjarjarbinkstherealsit6832]

@@MMDelta9 You are wrong.

[@darthjarjarbinkstherealsit6832]

Pleas come back.

[@justchaitea6675]

@@MMDelta9 therefore it wasn't socialism it was another thing entirely under the name of socialism

[@MMDelta9]

@@justchaitea6675 question- from gun control to central banking to the abolition of rent to price and wage controls to the seizure and collectivization of industry, how man socialist polices do *national SOCIALISTS* have to implement before losers like you are willing to say "they might be socialists?"

[@ellinamelnik6555]

What an outstanding speaker. I could listen to him for hours

[@cloroxusthestainlessone4324]

I'm about to have a look around so I can :)

[@koendove7777]

Really?

[@brandonbahr7005]

Seriously, it felt like a performance, like he was putting on a one man play.

[@ReasonAboveEverything]

He does have really good output.

[@dravenocklost4253]

He sounds fancy

[@scotts4197]

All I can see is the cold, dead, soulless eyes of the young people who think socialism is a new idea that will save them all.

[@MyWatchIsEnded]

@LagiNaLangAko23 it's also the reason they are attempting to lower the voting age in the United States. It's advantageous for manipulative politicians to indoctrinate children in their political views and to essentially force them to re-elect these dystopian individuals.

[@larsfrisk6658]

Do you know what socialism means? And do you know what young “socialists” want? Because neither are remotely similar to the Soviet Union.

[@mppauling]

@gbmpyzochwfdisurjklvanetxq Too bad there is not a single example of that.

[@cesarvillegas3799]

you must be reading way too much media propaganda

[@davidburdick594]

I was involved by accident in an experiment in which employees would share equally in the net profit during the work day as it was all commission based. Human nature kicked in and most of the people worked harder and more efficient while one of them slowed down and became lazy thinking "why work harder, I'll just let them do all the work and I'll still make more money" he actually said it out load to his client in front of all of us, we cut him out of the deal and he ended up making less for his smartass remark. Imagine if this type of behavior was mandated by government and that's when you get socialism, assholes taking advantage of honest hard working people.

[@Jxnxdoe]

Oh boy he did the meme socialism is when capitalism

[@Veilzlol]

I swear this guy could sell me a used toothbrush... Extremely skilled speaker.

[@genaclarke749]

You reminded me of a sign I once saw. I live in South Africa, and sometimes on the back roads between towns you will find people selling fruit or veg, or trinkets. I once saw a sign for " Slightly used toilet paper". Yes. I call these signs my gold nuggets, as they are often misspelled and hilarious.

[@GobiLux]

You don't need to be a skilled salesman to sell Capitalism over Socialism!

[@lukenardoni2454]

He managed to convince everyone Brexit was a good idea so yeah you're probably right.

[@nemo227]

Used toothbrushes have a value, a utility. I save mine and use them for cleaning tools, crevices, applying grease or oil to small places and a dozen other things. I even use one to apply shoe polish to the stitched area between the sole and body of my shoes. Yeah, I think used toothbrushes can be sold.

[@mcwolfpne]

It's easy to sell common sense, it's so practical.

[@donaldgreen7471]

The Hippies tried living in communes and sharing everything including their mates. The concept didn't really work out and most went out and got jobs.

[@pommiebears]

Donald Green and new mates, I assume? Lol.

[@goblinisac5759]

Yeah, I like to remind people that hippies stopped being hippies for a reason.

[@sabin97]

i completely agree with your statement. but i fail to see what it has to do with the subject matter....

[@brigitteschultz1552]

@@sabin97 Communism and hippie communes were the same idea.

[@sabin97]

@@brigitteschultz1552 were they really? people living high all the time and fucking everyone in sight is what you think about when you think of communism?

[@effexon]

I have one big question: which ideology (what should it be, concept?) would solve just society, just division of benefit from activities ? I havent seen ideology trying to battle these, and yet this is problem we've fought for centuries. Correction: socialism and capitalism many times promised to solve, but didnt give anything(some partial solutions, good closed context thing), it wasnt interested in this problem to keep it high priority it should be.

[@303machine]

Problem is or not human nature. There is no ideology which could solve problem between individualism and collectivism. I consider socialism middle ground between communism and capitalism. On the other hand look up societies, "civilizations" (I don't have high opinion about civilizations), their lifesspan and system they have had. Today's democracy is the worst system ever created, you have bunch of parasites without responsibility and they are bought and controlled by rich people from the shadows, while there is feel good story how people have choice in elections, by electing already controlled political puppets with rare exceptions. Capitalism works if there is no crooks like in today's crony capitalism and weak, controlled political puppets running countries by corporatists and banksters. This way, capitalism is no better than communism or socialism.

[@effexon]

@@303machine so we need revolution/evolution of this system somehow bloodlessly, sneakily.... blood always causes other problems despite minor improvements. as people live longer, one could argue this problem gets worse.

[@jimbocrispy6908]

@@effexonThe perfect system will never exist and you’re a gullible moron if you think otherwise.

[@Octovisuals]

Liberalism/libertarianism por even anarchocapitalism. Also, capitalism isn't an ideology.

[@Maximilian-Robespierre]

Bro, fascists were not socialists, they were ultra-capitalists. They were the armed forces of elites. They were your people

[@MMDelta9]

The first fascist was Mussolini and he was an ardent anti-capitalist. As was Hitler and Stalin and the CCP. There are no pro-capitalist fascists. It's a contradiction of terms.

[@Maximilian-Robespierre]

@@MMDelta9 Fascism existed in Germany before that. They where armed forces killing in Germany, as extension of the police force. Look man, I really dont have the patience to have a conversation with someone who says that fascists where not capitalists. It is ridiculous/you are ridiculous. Educate yourself and please dont bother me.

[@MMDelta9]

@@Maximilian-Robespierre "They where armed forces killing in Germany, as extension of the police force" The Ordnungspolizei you're talking about was controlled by Himmler, who was a socialist. It's not a matter of patience here, my dude. You are willfully ignoring facts because they do not agree with your zealot mindset. I might as well be talking to a creationist.

[@willaturner114]

@@MMDelta9 Hitler, privatized railways, banks, and shipyards. He promoted monopoly over small businesses. He outlawed labour unions, worker unions, collective bargaining, worker strikes, and the KDP. He promoted the expansion of private property. Also, he pushed the baseless conspiracy theory that all communists were Jews who wanted world domination. These are undeniably capitalistic policies. Stalin on the other hand, nationalized railways, banks, and shipyards. He hated monopoly (there was an organization dedicated to helping small business owners). The government-subsidized worker and labour unions. Stalin was the guy who took away private property and nationalized it. Stalin also believed that all people should take part in building socialism, not just Jews. These are undeniably socialistic policies.

[@Maximilian-Robespierre]

@@willaturner114 It is pointless, they are fanatics

[@AD-jt7bd]

Just like Capitalism his argument was essentially superficial.

[@danzel1157]

***** Your comment on Venezuela is instructive as to why socialism faces such an uphill struggle. Any country that seeks to break from the neoliberal consensus will face savage assaults from the West's 'free' press and - in the case of Cuba especially down the years - actually terrorist attack! Chavez went to the people and they believed in him, and rightly so. In most respects he put our pusillanimous bunch of politicians to shame.

[@NoProbaloAmigo]

Anthony Matthews So the gross mismanagement of government finances, the spiraling inflation, the predictable shortages of basic products due to price and capital controls have EVERYTHING to do from opposing opinions in the press OUTSIDE Venezuela, because certainly, the press in Venezuela is free, but NOTHING to do with the failure of imposing socialism. Pathetic, just pathetic on your part.

[@NoProbaloAmigo]

Cleopatra Anthony Because???

[@danzel1157]

NoProbaloAmigo Here are some facts about how Venezuela had changed under Hugo Chavez. Unemployment has dropped from 14.5% of the total labour force in 1999 to 7.6% in 2009 Population has increased from 23,867,000 in 1999 to 29,278,000 in 2011. The annual population growth was 1.5% in 2011 compared with 1.9% in 1999. GDP per capita has risen from $4,105 to $10,801 in 2011 Poverty has decreased - in 1999, 23.4% of the population were recorded as being in extreme poverty, this fell to 8.5% in 2011 according to official government figures Infant mortality is now lower than in 1999 - from a rate of 20 per 1,000 live births then to a rate of 13 per 1,000 live births in 2011 On the downside violence has been a key concern in Venezuela for some time - figures from the UNODC state that the murder rate has risen since 1999. In 2011 the intentional homicide rate per 100,000 population was 45.1 compared with 25.0 just twelve years earlier. Oil exports have boomed - Venezuela has one of the@2012 and in 2011 Opec put the country's net oil export revenues at $60bn. In 1999 it stood at $14.4bn. One can see from this why the people elected Chavez 4 times in elections that were generally held, by independent observers, to be beyond reproach. Not a hanging chad to be seen! Is it any wonder the western press lied/lies so diligently about Chavez?

[@NoProbaloAmigo]

Anthony Matthews I find it odd that all your data stops at 2011, is there a reason for that? Obviously, when oil prices were high, Chavez could subsidize large areas of the economy. But because when the bottom fell out, he destroyed many competitive areas of his economy. A little side note of your disgusting deceit, Chavez was part of a coup in 1992, and his opponent, Rafael Caldera, pardoned him.

[@Tranarpnorra]

Wow, that speaker had passion and knowledge. A real steamroller, a big thumbs up to him!

[@seanaaron7888]

Matthias Andersson stemroller? Why would you roll stems? Youre not suppoasupposed to do that

[@YuyiLeal]

Indeed!

[@markh9875]

He obviously meant "steamroller". But yes, Hannon is a great speaker and good writer. He was my favorite Brexiteer.

[@deusbeowulf6039]

Hitler was also a passionate speaker and had “knowledge”. Gotta pay attention to the substance brother.

[@Tranarpnorra]

@@deusbeowulf6039 Yeah, I was focused on both, what's your point? If you have a beef with what he's saying, i e content, let us know.

[@spicynoodles2742]

5:22 He didn't even answer, I mean asking "would you go to a school in North or South Korea?" It is not an answer, you are simply ignoring the question.

[@MMDelta9]

Not a fan of the Socratic method?

[@spicynoodles2742]

@@MMDelta9 Dude, his question was "how can you have freedom when money limits your education or which institute will you go to, or what job can you have?" Paraphrasing what he said, and the sir responded with north korea? The Socrates method is fine, but at least it would have had something to do with the question the boy asked. He didn't ask the question becuse the Socratic method, he asked the question because he didn't know what to answer.

[@MMDelta9]

@@spicynoodles2742 As opposed to *the socialist party* limiting what education and job you can have? This is what don't get about young socialists who want to take down the system, *you seem to be convinced that your only choice is to live by its rules.* Unrestricted access to the market (capitalism) means you don't need a formal education to be successful. We are festooned with examples of people who are hugely successful but never through academics. You don't get that with socialism cause socialism is all about forcing people into schools that act as little more than indication camps. Like the schools in China and North Korea.

[@spicynoodles2742]

​@@MMDelta9 "As opposed to the socialist party limiting what education and job you can have?" Dude, his question was not limiting capitalism, it was a specific question, on a specific topic, that the old man did not answer. "This is what don't get about young socialists who want to take down the system, you seem to be convinced that your only choice is to live by its rules." I just said that he didn't answer the question, but okay, according to you, that's why I'm a socialist now, it's not like just something I notice. And what the heck is "its rules"? You mean socialism, because it is a very vague statement. "Unrestricted access to the market (capitalism) means you don't need a formal education to be successful." Tell that to everyone who works at McDonalds. I know it is nice to hear stories of people who came to power out of nowhere, but it is not the norm but an exception, they happen to individuals, not people in general. I remember that my statistics teacher told us that the statistics with what happens is so small that it is very difficult for it to happen to you. Rather, I have seen more stories of people who came out of poverty thanks to education, and even so it was more work, since here education is more of a privilege than a right. Not to mention all the companies that don't hire you if you didn't go to university or they lower your salary, when every day universities cost more and more. "You don't get that with socialism cause socialism " You realize how silly that phrase is, don't you? It's like saying capitalism causes capitalism or neoliberalism causes neoliberalism. Like, what else do you hope it causes? "(...) is all about forcing people into schools that act as little more than indication camps." I do not think it is entirely true, for example, in Mexico, for a time, like in the 30s, the socialist school was used, so that both indigenous and poor people had access to education, and its biggest controversy was that it took away religion. Furthermore, technically, we still use socialist education in public schools. In the end, it is the government sector, which is in charge of educatio that is going to decide which books will be used in schools, however, be don't have more or less indoctrinated people. Before you say that I am a socialist or a communist, I am not, I do not support the whole idea, but it is okay to admit that capitalism is not perfect either, it actually has many flaws and it would be better if instead of hiding them, or saying that anyone who mentioned them is a socialist, we would see how to improve it.

[@DF-ss5ep]

@@spicynoodles2742 The implicit answer is pretty clear. There's no system that gives you all possible and imaginable freedom. The real question he is asking is in which places are you freer. And to answer that you only have to look at real world existing countries and compare. In some countries, you have the two freedoms, the freedom to sell goods/services and to enjoy them, and in others you have none of the two.

[@tdb517]

How is the smaller group of oligarchs' forecast that Marx made wrong?

[@nyshady517]

7:20 clapping guy 🤣🤣🤣

[@agenius4562]

@Bum Face Gammon ok boomer

[@sal_277]

@Bum Face Gammon Mmm sure??...

[@chrisblyth6716]

Again socialism has to shout instead of listening to sound reason and fact Ostrich mentality when it suits. When union leaders live in luxury on the backs of the poorly paid who without consent have a union levy taken from their pay. I used to be a staunch socialist but grew wise through listening to sound reasoning and judgement.

[@dancollins3999]

the motion that socialism doesn't work got defeated, read the description. this is not sound reasoning and judgement. it's propaganda. Also your concerns with trade unions no longer exist as a bill was passed that each decision had to have been voted on by a significant proportion of the members and people are no longer automatically put into unions

[@conr.3624]

7:20. The guy next to her started clapping and stopped after she gave him that look😭😭😭

[@colin1818]

He gave her a great look though. haha

[@jkm9332]

Question for advocates of socialism in the US: I've recently inherited some land near the beautiful Sequoia National Forest in California, and I've just been approved by the state to start a tax-free socialist commune where all power, labor, and essential goods (food, clothing, shelter) will be shared equally. We will farm the land and responsibly use natural resources. No one will be exploited. We will all be equally poor. Please let me know if you'd like to join. NOTE: This invitation is only for those who truly believe capitalism is inherently corrupt and that socialism is most ideal. Anyone who merely preaches socialism but is too cowardly and lazy to actually live it out while feeding into the capitalist system is not welcome. Cheers.

[@kino_61]

Dude COINTELPRO is hitting a new low

[@mikedobson1678]

The way only the guy next to her claps at 7:21 is too much 😂😂😂

[@jaydenkatis5907]

i died

[@colin1818]

I noticed that too. He gives her a nice look too. lol

[@johnmcmanus6719]

Pure cringe 🤣😂

[@ritzy9635]

I've been that guy before x

[@christian0500]

If you want better schools, would you go to North Korea or South Korea?

[@lightzpy8049]

The schools in a free market must make profit and they have a hierarchy, which is allowed by state. Although Public schooling should not be compulsory which is what all anarchist should be for but they sure love that public / state free money stolen from people more productive than them. Anarchist today are just revolutionaries and as a result they are revolutionary, nothing new is achieved by their ideology but the extermination of skilled people and degradation of freedom. Collectivism is only when it is traditionalistic and nationalistic, although the issue is communist and socialist today don't believe in nation kinship but a social suppression of those with an individualistic will. They are nothing but terrorist egalitarians which marx was not.

[@charliestubbs6151]

theres no defense against that one

[@hornyconvict]

@@user-kq2we1ex3h North Korea isn't communist. There's never been a truly communist (stateless, classless) country. The state's official ideology is juche, a Sino-Korean word used in both North and South Korea that roughly translates as "independence, or the independent status of a subject." They're really just a dictatorship.

[@hornyconvict]

@My Special Area Is Bearded China isn't communist either. They're literally more capitalist then America, and will probably surpass the US in GDP within the next decade.

[@undo9981]

@@lightzpy8049 I don't get why you started talking about anarchists

[@truth3137]

6:46 this woman appeared on almost every oxford union vid that I watched

[@sammillsy]

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith

[@colin1818]

I literally quoted this exact portion of Wealth of Nations earlier today

[@gatosospechosop3]

Adam Smith was a proponent of labor theory of value lmfao

[@Cyborg_Lenin]

" Marx was right, the invisible hand of the market is fisting you every night" - me

[@EGarrett01]

3:54 "Under every other system devised by human intelligence, a group of people sat on top and the way to get rich was to suck up to those in power." This describes KZbin now too.

[@Skellotronix]

That's how everything works these days. Disgusting.

[@prototypep4]

Fucking lol. Do your research some of the biggest breakthroughs in history came from oppressed people and rebels.

[@cameronfleming488]

It's funny cause it applies to capitalism also so it seems a bit stupid, he's a great rhetorician though especially when he asks someone to choose between living in South Korea or North Korea

[@jstevo1349]

@@cameronfleming488 its not the only way to get rich in capitalism though. depending on what you mean by rich, you can actually start at the middle (or even the bottom, however they are usually considered miracles) and get relatively rich

[@usuario6196]

You have other platforms to use as an alternative, up to you

[@joshuagall7252]

7:20 the look on that guy's face made me burst into laughter

[@joshuagall7252]

@mo ali Thanks

[@Phi792]

Free markets are important, they allow an efficient distribution of goods. But there are some things that should not work under a 'laissez-faire' free market (Healthcare and Public Education System for example). As a swiss citizen who benefits from both and sees the effects this has on society, I stand by this. (Adam Smith in 'Wealth of Nations' was also in favor of a universal education system.) You can have a capitalist system while also having some things guaranteed by the state. No need to say 'socialism bad' and thus make everything capitalistic (and vice versa there's no need to say "capitalism bad" and make everything state controlled.) The middle way is usually the best! :)

[@MMDelta9]

Bare in mind that your socialized health care only works because you have a relatively small population and a sh!t ton of oil money. Your Nordic model is also largely centred around an unregulated market. The health care you have would not work in a country with a more regulated market. I live in Canada. Our health care is strained at the best of times cause our market is heavily regulated.

[@zerodifs2566]

mate here in germany, that shit is not working XD

[@Gigachad-mc5qz]

Socialism and state controlled mean 2 different thinfs

[@MMDelta9]

@@Gigachad-mc5qz Dude, I just pointed out that the Nordic model, where state sourced health care comes as close as it can to working, has a largely unregulated market.

[@Pheer777]

I feel like I'm watching a Continental Congress

[@sirtickleshitz]

Like how those he's talking to aren't even listening, just crossing their arms and rolling their eyes like children. Typical.

[@ulysses2162]

Brainwashed lemmings that just want free stuff. What they don't realise is that if they live under a socialist system, that they will be left with nothing, because the state will take it all away from them. I absolutely despise socialists.

[@darrylscott6648]

Because hes talking rubbish, if you measure reducing unemployment to jobs where youre subservient to the state unable to escape your class from lack of economically availsble opportunity then yes capitalism is succesful. Just look at the USA yes you can easily get a job but if youre born in a ghetto and the institutions youre socialized into are poor then what opportunity do you have for social mobility?

[@BobSmith-pm3wx]

@@darrylscott6648 Social mobility in the US is better than anywhere else in the world. What are you smoking?

[@titsbitchmcgee7502]

@@darrylscott6648 Mobility isn't married to the local institutions you live in a capitalist society. It's still harder to do so in a bad area, sure, but you can't pretend that there isn't benefits and opportunities extended to those people specifically.

[@eyeq7730]

@@ulysses2162 Yeah,like if we all had Ten Million Dollars we'd all be poor!

[@QFGEE]

Well done Oxford for allowing both sides to speak on issues. It's a rarity for British universities these days.

[@kkadam2636]

This was 8 years ago, 1 year ago commenter

[@redwater4778]

The whole thing was satire.

[@user-mt6hr4qf9n]

It's really not a rarity by any stretch of the imagination. When did you last study at a British university?

[@vishalpatkar6819]

@@user-mt6hr4qf9n capatalism is dying so yeah you will see less capitalism and more talk on solutions.

[@user-mt6hr4qf9n]

​@@vishalpatkar6819 That wasn't really my point - this idea that British Universities stifle debate and just indoctrinate their students is baloney. That's what my comment referred to. As to capitalism dying? The rise of China is driving quite the revival - whoever tells you that's communism is pulling your leg.

[@SalutLunar]

Every time I hear that bell, it reminds me of Jerry Springer and that things are about to kick off!

[@juanzulu1318]

What a speech. 👍

[@follcatala]

That is the ultimate argument: name a socialist country that has even come close to the wealth and standards of living of the successful capitalist countries.

[@morbidsearch]

You mean those countries that got wealthy by exploiting less successful capitalist countries?

[@yoruichixx6951]

thats why most capitalistic countries abuse poor countries lol

[@amzdlv7379]

There’s never been a socialist country lmao

[@watchdogmaxim968]

@Pedro Rodriguez these are part socialist part capitalist country(not fully capitalist like US)

[@shaalis]

Ya mean Social democracy like in....the UK..Canada....Japan....Pretty much EVERY country in the west is a "Social Democracy", that also employs capitalism. Ya can't really have one without the other to some degree.

[@odanemcdonald9874]

I got an "Adventure Communist" ad at the start of this

[@stevegandalf4739]

That's probably the best type of Communism, if it actually existed. Working in a factory or down a mine all your life would be that exciting :)

[@anneramsey4655]

@@stevegandalf4739 if they dont start to executing people then thas already the best socialism

[@jacobnguyen8025]

@@stevegandalf4739 p

[@jaredschmidt2062]

The most American Brit I’ve ever heard. Brilliant!

[@pmv2015]

@@tomasmccauley569 Funny thing is India followed Soviet style socialism till 1991 and still have a lot of socialist policies, although they removed a good amount of those policies after the 1991 liberalisation. From 3% average y/y GDP growth rate till that point, the growth shot up after liberalisation and in the 2010s decade, average GDP growth was 7% y/y. Standard of living and average income also rose rapidly, after the 1991 reforms. Poverty is reducing every year ( except for 2020, due to covid ) Similarly China liberalised in 1979 and got good growths after that. Before that it was a socialist country as well, and was absolutely trash, it was called the " sick man of Asia ". Those who are smart always move away from Socialism and move towards Capitalism.

[@pmv2015]

@@tomasmccauley569 Those "state run" businesses are literally listed in their stock market. They are run by various members of the CCP, it's almost like the members of the government are all CEOs. Just having companies that are run by the government, doesn't make it socialist, even the US has many of those. The point is that they allow private business, and are around 30th in rankings for ease of doing business, this would not be possible if your exaggerated " you can't do anything without the CCP" statement were true. India has many nationalised companies too, in defense, in farming, in rail services. China on the economic front is way more capitalist than India. China has achieved such growths by opening up and allowing foreign investment to flow in and allowing foreign companies to set up manufacturing units across their country to provide employment to thier citizens. India is really not capitalist, I would know that anyway since I live here, and is definitely not just corporates, in fact the most sought after jobs in India are government jobs, goes to show how much dominance the nationalised companies have. If socialism worked, then both China and India would have started developing before 1979 and 1991 respectively. China's economy is fully driven forward by the private sector, go read about it.

[@pmv2015]

@@tomasmccauley569 Nope, this seems to be a misconception. The private sector is what pushed to China to development. How can a country where the private sector contribute 60% of GDP, and are responsible for 70% of innovation, 80% of urban employment and provide 90% of new jobs be state capitalism. You should just call it authoritarian capitalism. Politically, they are Communist, hence the lapse of rights for their citizens but economically, they are just capitalist.

[@pmv2015]

@@tomasmccauley569 Take a look at the figures I gave about the private sector in China providing employment. Also, for making infrastructure ( which is the job of any government ), they actually use a PPP model, (private public partnership). Yes, but recently their have been certain anti capitalist crackdowns, especially in the education field. This is only recent and till now, they generally allowed all these businesses to run smoothly. Let's see how things play out.

[@pmv2015]

@@tomasmccauley569 So, I said that they are politically communist, right?

[@bobhabib7662]

like most socialist trolls, the woman believes if she can outyell or silence the critics of socialism then she's doing socialism right. Socialists absolutely cannot stand to have socialism exposed.

[@markellis6898]

A major factor in socialism and communism not working, which I don't see addressed often, is the fact that it penalizes high producers to provide for non or low producers. Ultimately there is no gain in working hard so people don't.

[@tarafficstory]

exactly, why should I bother then?

[@GG-hu9dn]

Yes but high producers have always been at an advantage to the detriment of low producers ; but are to greedy and up their own arse to comprehend it ? Its called " entitlement? Alas! The stupidity of eneqauility perpetuates ? Your argument is to simply : " black-and-white"!

[@majordbag2]

I disagree, it’s not that people don’t work hard in Socialist economies, it’s that they aren’t promoted for hard work but political loyalty. In the USSR people worked their fingers to the bone but all that hard work was squandered by the hideously inefficient Soviet economic system that, as I said above, selected party hacks over more competent candidates as the USSR favored loyalty over competence.

[@rogerthornhill1491]

GARY GRAY Can not this entitlement work in reverse Gaz?

[@dancollins3999]

there would be much less work neccessary as employment would be shared more fairly and AI could be embraced rather than seen as a potential for sprawling inequality and mass unemployment, furthermore the incentive to work is for yourself and the community. Also you would have much more free time so the working hours would feel like less of a chore once again.

[@claushellsing]

I live on a Latin American country and I have witnessed the failure of Latin American socialist models. Socialism specially in Latin America have been a tragedy.

[@carlozlobo1]

You are not living socialism. You in Latin America are living in neoliberalism.

[@claushellsing]

@@carlozlobo1 I'm fucking sure, I'm living socialism. Do you live in Latin America? Where do you live? I live in Central America in the most socialist country in the region, we have a long experience in socialist systems. So when I tell you socialism is shit you better believe I know what I'm talking about. This is what Cafe Socialists always do, every time a socialist system turns out to be a disaster they rebrand it and blame another one.

[@kimobrien.]

@@claushellsing I guess you didn't realize that Cuba is in the region also.

[@laughingtories1559]

Sincerely, a death squad coup supporter.

[@claushellsing]

@@laughingtories1559 do you know Sandinistas /socialist have death squads. Do you?

[@tomlakelin2413]

He hasnt just opened with the 'nazis were socialist' arguement to start with? You know after jus this you should not be taken seriously.

[@willnitschke]

Except they were. Only denialists still pretend otherwise, LOL.

[@MarioMedoni]

You know a comment section is heavily moderated when all comments are praising this clown. No video on KZbin has such overly positive comments on the top. The only arguments for socialism can be found as responses to the praises. Is this really supposed to be an informative debate?

[@willnitschke]

Frankly you're delusional. Most of the comments here consist of Socialist half wits with their arses on fire, LOL.

[@Sharpe2007Dent]

She didn't have a question to pose, she had a additional debate. Come on guys some self awareness please.

[@billyb4790]

Socialists don’t have an argument they have complaints, grievances and dreams.

[@DZ-hh5dw]

The man starting his discussion on socialism by saying "ha the nazis had socialist in their name!". Not exactly a serious debate

[@superdingo9741]

@@DZ-hh5dw the nazis not just HAD socialist in their name. They WERE socialists.

[@antonlampe2272]

The way he handles the questions effortlessly on the fly, might be a good indication of his points validity

[@jacobblanton5179]

Why are they even interrupting him anyway? Stupid ugly fucks...

[@Franglaiso]

I think you should actually listen to what he is saying rather than basing the credibility on how well he sounded when answering

[@antonlampe2272]

@@Franglaiso that's true. However I wanted to point out, that he wouldn't be able to dismiss criticism without having the facts on his side

[@kimobrien.]

@@antonlampe2272 The British merchant class still hiding behind the Restoration of the King and the cult of personality. .

[@NN-sp9tu]

That's a massive fallacy. Some people are just really good at lying with a straight face

[@basseal2677]

Enlisting Milton and the Levellers on the side of classical liberalism was a stroke of rhetorical genius. You could see Comrades Corbyn and Griffiths grinding their teeth. 'Aren't those guys meant be ours? Perhaps if we'd ever read them we'd know.'

[@tamawashere6855]

Works better than capitalism.

[@MMDelta9]

It does not.

[@StillSomeNigga]

Ion know man

[@CharmingLordSausage]

Basically, let folk get on with their lives unencumbered by petty rules, regulations and punitive taxes...

[@applejinx7172]

So… Somalia, then? ;)

[@theawecabinet]

jinxtigr Somalia is a failed state. An 'self reliant adult' is not produced just by taking away its abusive parents. And a 'free stateless society' is not automatically produced just by the removal or collapse of a coercive regime. Somalia is an effect of statism. To claim Somalia is the effect of a sateless society ('anarchy') is like saying a lifelong smoker who's lung cancer is now so bad he can no longer smoke at all is now experiencing the effects of not smoking.

[@olliej111]

@@willemgloudemans1442 Communist and anarchist are exact opposite ends of the scale.

[@deanlowdon8381]

CharmingLordSausage Yeah, deregulating banking always works out really well...

[@karakondzula1388]

I'm not even British but that ending made me proud as if i am lol...

[@BigBoomOfDoom2]

lol you can be an honourary member

[@raymondwiggins354]

When I was in High School, I wrote a persuasive essay on why the U.S. should rescind the Declaration of independence and join the UK.

[@g4meboy13]

Boy it gave me chills too

[@unosheem6210]

Raymond Wiggins You didn’t mention your grade so by how bad that idea would be I’m guessing it was low

[@alexvalin9085]

I am Canadian and that speech made me proud to be British haha

[@freethinker4liberty]

Whenever I hear the idiocy of "if they are similar why did fascists and communist fight each other, they are actually opposites, reeeeee", I wonder if people ever heard of Shia and Sunni, or Catholics and Protestants.

[@willnitschke]

Or that the Bolsheviks destroyed the Mensheviks (the so called 'democratic socialists' of the day), on their road to Utopia.

[@allysagilbreath4456]

The state has taken away your opportunities and rights, not a business or another individual! It is immoral to believe that a human should be forced to live and produce in order to care for a stranger.

[@grossherman3841]

I actually enjoy watching Mr Corbin and friends squirming in their seats when the truth is told.

[@odinbiflindi]

Corbyn is NOT a socialist not even a champagne one he is a social democrat.

[@dancollins3999]

the motion that socialism doesn't work was defeated, the speaker failed. read the description

[@audience2]

And it is a virtual certainty Corbyn and his comrades are having the most illiberal thoughts about what they'd do to the speaker if they get into power.

[@hellride8544]

I get most of my enjoyment watching the socialists getting annoyed in the background.

[@audience2]

Same. Seeing humourless authoritarians called out is so satisfying.

[@kimobrien.]

@@audience2 Britain where the workers still chafe under the Monarchy. The British merchants are still trying to get just that right mix of Monarchy, the Peerage and the Commons. As Thomas Paine said." The King need not speak when an act of Parliament will do."

[@hellride8544]

@xmj501 thanks socialist bot

[@kimobrien.]

​@xmj501 From the other side of the pond. Still the Labour Party has been in and out of power since the General Strike. Yet has been unable to create a lasting socialism. Labour is still taking an oath to royalty and remains within the NATO Imperialist alliance.

[@kimobrien.]

@xmj501 That's true enough our Party (Socialist Workers Party) and our British comrades in the Communist League think that the time to build a new leadership and movement is now and not through the British Labour Party but without it.

[@billyb4790]

This was made 8 years ago......an eternity between now and then. Nowadays intelligence, respect and eloquence is gone.

[@holyrolypoly]

7:20 is my favorite moment. Look at the smug smile on that guy's face as she turns to him! 🤣

[@scorchmmusic]

Wow, I can't believe this guy didn't get the cops called on him or somthing considering the current state of the UK. Wait this came out in 2013... Oh how times have changed.

[@kimobrien.]

@SelfGoverned Yep now democracy is under attack by capitalisms supporters. Can't trust those workers who are always complaining about something. Just like Mussolini said the workers are a class of perpetual complainers.

[@kimobrien.]

@SelfGoverned No that is a rather dumb argument because if it's true than there is no hope.

[@kimobrien.]

@SelfGoverned I turned off the movie once it began the usual nonsense about a communist conspiracy with Trotsky being bankrolled by Schiff. Clinton got a big bankroll of four times Trump contributions and she couldn't an election nevermind a revolution. If 'white people' are waking up to anything it's that skin color doesn't make you a superior being.

[@bing4126]

ok moron.

[@Tara-zq3il]

and since 2013 that 6 billion in worldwide poverty has halved to 3 billion...

[@irishnessie]

Our ancestors fought for NOTHING. We're once again falling down the trap of socialism. How is this happening once again 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@m0ther_bra1ned12]

Entitled people have nothing better to do then try and take the stuff from people that have more then them.

[@redwater4778]

Your ancestors paid tax for nothing for the capitalists opened the borders . Now your accumulated tax wealth is being shared with the hordes that cross the borders..

[@thedarkmaster4747]

It wont stop happening untill we make sure each & every generation is educated properly.

[@sirellyn4391]

@@kaychimav More people in the history of the world are NOT fighting anymore for their life to stay alive. That number as a percentage of world population, able to survive without starving is going UP, faster than any time in history. And all of them just so happen to be countries that are very capitalist.

[@sirellyn4391]

@@kaychimav The fact you are comparing hunger to starvation just proves my point. Hunger is not even in the same ballpark as starvation. "Poverty" in the US is a number that keeps going up every few years. Absolute poverty even poor people in the USA aren't even close to. And it's disappearing off the world. World poverty is measured by the US dollar, but the amount is different for every country. Again absolute poverty is the static amount. And inequality is an aspect you'll find in ANY civilization. Check out the percentage of rich vs poor in the former USSR, Venezuela, and North Korea. The levels of inequality are FAR worse than the US. There's been zero proof that any sort of socialist policies stop inequality. The long term data seems to indicate it's still there and people have a much harder time moving between ends of the spectrum. There isn't even any evidence that capitalism causes inequality at any rate more than anything else. Inequality happens in nature all the time. Capitalism at least allows people far better freedom to move between levels. Or the best freedom we know yet. It's also the thing that created the middle class in the first place. (Completely contrary to Marx's predictions.)

[@pwashcroft]

Daniel is a hero and a statesman. I wish we had more like him in America and Britain.

[@robertcampbell840]

Notice that Stephen Woodward from "Rationality Rules' chimes in and immediatly gets dispatched by Mr. Daniel Hannan.

[@shostycellist]

"Socialism is class envy institutionalized." Ludwig von Mises

[@unosheem6210]

Bezz80 Capitalism is not a form of slavery It’s a fair exchange of ones labor for money The people who invest the most into the business get the most from the business So if you’re a manager you will obviously get paid more than the person who mops the floor and if that janitor works more than the other janitors they will get paid more

[@unosheem6210]

@jeep23862 By fair I meant fair in the sense of the person who is trading their labor for money you can negotiate under capitalism Also a janitor would not and should not receive any of the things you mentioned because the position is not something companies invest in skill wise anyone can fill that role if the person who's a janitor wants those benefits they're free to train and obtain skills that allow them to get a better job There's jobs in every country that are just designed for people who have no other value to society I don't think that's immoral I think it's apart of life everyone has a role

[@unosheem6210]

@jeep23862 If I was a billionaire I'd be at a trillion by next week if I had the knowledge to get that far just saying But no I just don't think those "essentials" are a right If I owned a company though I would provide those things because that's my choice but they're not things people have a right to and define a living wage ? Because people live off of their wages all the time it seems like people just want extra spending money

[@anonuser7157]

And you can see the smug envy on the man in the audience.

[@alanhoff89]

@jeep23862 "capitalism is simply a system by which capital can be invested in the hope of acquiring more capital" Of course it is, capital is what drives economic prosperity, innovation and puts food on me belly. Do you want less prosperity, innovation and food? I don't think so.

[@JesseBusman1996]

What causes poverty? Nothing! It is the natural, original, default human condition. What causes wealth? Free exchange coupled with individual productivity and creativity!

[@audience2]

It's remarkable how socialists can't see that limiting those results in greater poverty.

[@stru57]

Poverty is not a natural condition in the same sense that nudity is not a natural condition. Poverty presupposes wealth the same way nudity presupposes clothing.

[@toraimanchester4658]

"have you read karl marx?" the pure arrogance in this room is triggering

[@thespliff1]

Yes actually.... I have Marxism is pretty dam bad... Written by a hardcore communist in a communist country for communists... Try "Accumulation of Capital... Marx has a lot to answer for....

[@Daler1213]

Legitimate question, because that idiot wouldn't have made the claims that he have, had he actually read Marx. Marx's critique is not a simple prediction like a bible, it is a description of capitalism and what happens under it and what it results in. Marx is not a prophet, he is a philosopher and an economist. You are a fool if you think the speaker's critique addresses any legitmate point Marx has ever made.

[@2FadeMusic]

@@Daler1213 But he has a bowtie and he talks all smart like!! He must be right about "muh socialism bad"

[@nanehater8606]

@@Daler1213 stfu commie

[@haziq9130]

Let's just act as if there was no capitalist dictatorship during WW2. Let's just act as if ALL communist ideologies are the same.

[@seesidesummerhouse6112]

12:46 is an amazing sequence: "vote for freedom and remember of what nation it is where of ye are!" Pan out and you see Corbyn sat grumpily with his arms folded.

[@Your_username_]

Seeside Summerhouse Haha noticed that too. Poor woman

[@kimobrien.]

@@Your_username_ Freedom In the British Empire was a bad joke.

[@laughingtories1559]

Freedom to die from preventable illness and to work for poverty wages. Makes me grumpy too.

[@tsipher]

Behind every Capitalist society are Socialists that think their ideas will work, behind every Socialist society are Capitalists that remember when things did work.

[@guilleport]

👍👍👍😆

[@gadzukis1018]

excellent!

[@CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

then how come capitalism didn't work which would've been the only reason that socialism gets in lmao

[@tsipher]

@@CoWinkKeyDinkInc name one successful Socialist society that wasn't first a Capitalist one

[@tsipher]

@@user-kq2we1ex3h they don't survive because of Socialism though. They survive the moment they stop believing in the Socialist ideals that destroyed their societies. They excel greatly when everybody is allowed the freedom and liberty to expand their wealth. You never hear of growth in Socialist societies because in those societies it's not a matter of growing, expanding, or gaining anything. In those societies, it's all about maintaining the same level all the way through. Granted, Crony Capitalism destroys the idea of actual Capitalism, but the answer is never Socialism.

[@MrMedukneusha]

In my years of debating progressives about the history of progressivism, you can tell where things are going when they claim i'm revising history and immediately respond with "here's how history is wrong".

[@willnitschke]

I respect people who can make accurate predictions about the future. Not half wits who try to revise the past to fit into their ideology.

[@inconvenientfacts6452]

Did we all miss Jeremy Corbyn in the audience.

[@benevolentautore4463]

It's insane that people still believe that pure socialism is a good plan.

[@audience2]

Like the young man that got up and asked the question about getting a good education many people fail to recognise that the places that most successfully practice aspects of socialism (publicly funded education) are free market capitalist countries with independent institutions and rule of law.

[@kelnor21]

What exactly is non pure socialism.

[@dash4800]

@@kelnor21 a state with high levels of government run programs but allows free markets for businesses, ie. europe

[@sabin97]

no pure system is a good plan. i dont think any sane person would believe pure x(where x is any system you want) is a good plan.

[@kelnor21]

@@andriusk5044 socialist Scandinavian countries?. Umm no. They are not socialist anymore. They once were and it almost ruined them. Then they turned there economies capitalist.

[@slimmorden5771]

Willingness to share is universally admired but----hospitality freely given is soon redefined as "Free for the Taking'' and taken by force if necessary. Such is the fate of every socialist society.

[@gwarlow]

Slim Morden To which "socialist societies" are you referring?

[@Dummigame]

"Let's let the businessman with expensive clothes and a fuck ton of money explain why a system that would benefit people doesn't benefit people somehow. Yeah that'll work."

[@Capnight1fr]

Did the USSR benefit people or the ones on top? Cuz comparing the standards of life the US was better

[@Dummigame]

@@Capnight1fr Maybe because it wasn‘t a feudal, agrarian backwater in the early 20th century, y’know…

[@rockyfalldownstairs]

Sad that we need a guy like this to even put forth this argument.

[@samrigby8286]

Seriously?

[@davidvarley1812]

His argument is very reasonable and thought provoking but he misunderstands or misinterprets socialism and doesn't give credit to societies that were socialist without knowing what socialism was or involved.