Pat Stares At FF7Rebirth! - There Is No Day But Today: Finale

Broadcasted live on Twitch -- Watch live at / patstaresat

[@Porterhaus94]

I knew you'd love that ending Pat

[@sildrex]

I really love Pat's FF7 playthroughs because he picks stuff up and theorycrafts so quickly and it's all solid reasoning. I landed on a lot of the same theory's Pat did in the ending. I think a lot of people's 'confusion' about the ending is they are trying to build a complete answer to "is she dead" when the answer the game is giving you is obviously "You aren't meant to know for sure at this point. Play the next game". I think the sidequest stuff isn't nearly as bad if you play this game like it's your life for a week or two, but yeah, it's bad pacing if you're playing like a regular person would.

[@Black_Rabbit_84]

While I enjoy Pat's theories, I sometimes wish he would just let the story in important cutscenes play out, without constantly yelling theories based on whatever the most recent line of dialogue was and then smugly claiming he was right when one of the million theories he came up with happens to be true. Pat is great at piecing things together and coming to conclusions when he has time to think, but when he's just straight up stream of consciousness theory-craftting mid cutscene, it gets tiring.

[@Ablestron]

a lot of the side content in that final section of BG3 rewards you with AMAZING unique weapons and equipment. So they reward you in a ton of ways even if you hit max level, a lot of it is still worth doing.

[@AGMSP]

I think his issue was mostly the sheer amount of it. Not really the quality.

[@crazygamer4260]

​@AGMSP yeah also for me at least the pacing of it, like you're about to head out to the final fight then get a phone call you were told you were gonna get 12 hours ago but forgot

[@unboundsky9999]

Given the ending, you can very clearly see what they are gonna do in the first visit to the Northern Crater. In the original, Sephiroth broke Cloud by convincing him that he isn’t real. Now with all the conversations he had with Tifa in this game, that would become a silly reason for him to break in Part 3, so what’re they gonna do? All the alternate possibilities will disappear once the Reunion occurs (including the one where Aerith lives), and now, the thing that breaks Cloud will be Sephiroth forcing him to confront Aerith’s death for real.

[@7U57HTJRYGHG]

i dont vibe with at all, its just pointless plot bloating, we could've have all the og plot beats just fine without teasing everyone with he whole "OOOOOOO you broke FATE what Gonna happen now?! ooooooooooooo" like nothing fucking nothing everything that happened will happen again awesome great exactly what i wanted to see

[@aliciafraser1835]

​@@7U57HTJRYGHG yeah, and for a lot of people that's boring. Just go play the original at that point? Like, it's so there and easily playable unlike done other games out there. Just don't get it.

[@TheShockVox]

⁠@@7U57HTJRYGHGthis game didn’t take away the original. But yeah if you JUST want the OH plot beast, you were always going to be disappointed. Even if this game was just a straight remake, folks would be unhappy because something wasn’t a 1 for 1 copy. Not gonna tell ya what to like or what to desire, but you were doomed from the jump.

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

The whole point of the remake was to give an authentic experience of FF7 to newcomers who find the original to have aged poorly. "Go play the original" How about Square find some good writers instead of adding all this stupid, pretentious, shallow plot ghosts and alternate timeline BS that adds no substance to the story. Even in a vacuum, this god awful, juvenile writing which is way more boring and frustrating than being faithful.

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

That's not even remotely true. A lot of people that have issue with the stupid ghost shit love the way the remakes have expanded and added new content that fleshes out the world and story. Nobody is crying that it's not a beat for beat remake. They're complaining that the alternate timeline is some shitty, juvenile, needlessly confusing garbage that shouldn't have been in the game. This is coming from people who have never played the OG FF7 as well.

[@arkus2919]

Hey Pat, are you and Woolie gonna do a spoilercast for Rebirth like you guys did for Remake?

[@Porterhaus94]

Depends on whenever the hell woolie finishes remake. I don't even know if he's playing it yet.

[@georgiyk4758]

@@Porterhaus94 I might remember it wrong, but I think Woolie said in the recent podcast that he hasn't even started it yet.

[@The_Black_WoIf]

Woolie hasn’t even played Rebirth, what the fuck are you talking about

[@IndoorSitup]

Jesus, some of these comments are fucking salty. Chill, guys. Breathe. Pat's allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours.

[@7U57HTJRYGHG]

well let FFVIIR3 be a financial disaster hah in your face /s.

[@AGMSP]

You are right. Discourse and Disgust over the ending aside, it's just an opinion.

[@anthonychessar7179]

7U5 here is definitely someone who this comment is pointed at. Can't take another opinion for shit and will actively pray for downfall of the different opinionaters and the topic in question. Real douchebags.

[@TheShockVox]

@@7U57HTJRYGHGwho cares if it’s a financial disaster as long as when it comes out it’s enjoyed by the individual? One of my favorite Disney movies is Treasure Planet. It fucking bombed hard, partly due to Disney sabotaging it. But it not making its money didn’t make the movie itself bad for ME. Bad for the company? Sure. But I still got the movie.

[@manwiththemachinegun]

It's the same old hate sink. It's fine if people don't like the ending, but opinion is split. The game's story isn't "hated". And if you want just a classic "remake" you can always just play FF7 PC and put on mods.

[@AntiNihilist]

I hope Pat at least looks up the stuff he missed. Especially the materia

[@ReelPodcasts]

Watching this live with chat was a fun time especially because much like Pat I think it's incredibly clear what the ending is.

[@darrengrave]

Love that we're finally putting "7 seconds to the end" together when the last stage of the og final boss is called 7 seconds to the end and lasts for exactly 7 seconds😂🎉 I've been saying from the start that Square is gonna Donnie Darko it - no matter what happens, it's going to have to concede in the end to the events of the original story. Like Pat said awhile ago, while sad the original ending was still the best possible outcome. My theory since remake has been that this is Sephiroth defeated by the party in the og using those last 7 seconds to cast some kind of time/space fuckery to go all the way back and find some version of events in which he can win. That's where we flashed back to at the end of remake. Cloud still has 7 seconds to omnislash. Meanwhile, we get to play with those taunting bittersweet what ifs.

[@Zeikier]

I'm so glad I was able to watch this live, I was jumping out of my seat rewatching after finishing my playthrough before this, like "OH THAT'S SEPHIROTH FOUND THEM HOLY SHIT" when I noticed certain details. I don't think THE moment was as huge as the leadup to the Jenova fight in Remake but I'm glad Rebirth got a similar reaction at least once out of me. I went back to finish the Protorelic/Gilgamesh quest after beating the story, and the fight with Greg is so good that it's a shame Chadley is holding it hostage. I don't really know what can surprise me going forward into part 3. I don't know for sure if there *can* be something that surprises me as much as Remake did and if we'll just get another really solid second draft without the surprises being too prominent like Rebirth did. I'm looking forward to it for sure, but I guess not knowing where they'll go will mean I can be surprised.

[@BigDoubleAA]

i am completely neutral with the ending. I'm content to wait for part 3 and get the explanation. Overall, best game i've played in a long time. And there's zero chance the Aerith at the end is Jenova. I'll be back ion three years to say 'i told you so' lol :p

[@chrisdaughen5257]

I wonder how part 3 is going to be structured. I won't be surprised if Cloud's out of commission for the first half. There's not much left before they get to the Northern Crater and he loses it.

[@Harmor77mo]

Does anyone think that this might all be Jenova and Sephiroth is still locked away? I like the idea that Jenova a crazy alien may be manipulating the life stream more than Sephiroth is. Either way I loved the game and am looking forward to the next one

[@zashukon]

I kind of hate that they included attacks that bring the parties HP to 1 in this game. I get that its a holdover from the original, but it doesn't really fit well in this type of fast-paced action game...there are so many times where some random attack will just immediately take out the party

[@TheShockVox]

Damn shame this made him anti-curious or excited for the third game, and even led him to regret the first one. That’s wild to me but understandable and kind of an expected possibility for Pat. He’s said himself he’s ready to turn on any thing on a dime.

[@RicardoAlmeidatm]

"Leave Sephiroth to me, I will parry his sword with my internal organs" - Aerith.

[@AntiNihilist]

More like shadow clone jutsu

[@RicardoAlmeidatm]

Stamp also seems to be different breeds in different universes.

[@Porterhaus94]

Wait you didn't notice that in the zach scenes last game?

[@TheShockVox]

We see that in the first game.

[@Relugus]

That's why he's called Stamp.

[@TheAldriko]

Oh I just realized where Cloud got the black materia. I also understand why Sephiroth NEEDED Cloud to hand it to him instead of picking it up. Cloud handing it over == Cloud putting it in his pocket. I initially thought that the clear materia just turned into the black..... Wait so is Holy still in the water? I didn't see anyone pick it up

[@PregnantAdamSandler]

I feel like the doctor who analogy at the end does not work that well because that did happen and most of the people old and new did in fact agree that it kinda sucked

[@RicardoAlmeidatm]

I did not expect to see Nero at all.

[@timlerch7425]

....he was in Integrade already, though? He's probably coming back in the third game.

[@Grimlockfly]

it's exactly how Eve of Evangelion came to the end, changing the cycle. Rebirth is not the end of the trilogy, you can't actually save Aerith in this one. The trilogy is about saving Aerith, but the definitive of whether or not Aerith is saved is part 3.

[@aganaom1712]

my favorite thing that comes out of this series has been that we can now say that if you don't like the square enix remake series then you can write your own shitty fan fiction with all the things you want in it and the multi dimensional timeline stuff with the overall narrative means that it's canon in some form or another so if you're one of the people who hates the remake series the devs told you to go make your own and see how well that goes for you

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

The entire remake reads like some shitty fanfic a 14 year old wrote. They dislike it because it's juvenile, awful, writing, not because it deviates from the plot. Something you morons can't get through your thick skulls apparently.

[@KnightsDisillusion]

This was the best FF7 Rebirth playthrough ever! Also 4:47:38

[@darrenmarsh3312]

What a convoluted mess.

[@Zeikier]

I hadn't thought about Cait Sith being able to parse out the Temple's puzzle in OG cuz of being an architect. Art Vandelay would be proud! We might not have gotten Cloud smacking the taste out of Aeris's mouth but him talking like a creep was a nice touch. The voice actors killed it throughout (except maybe Sephiroth, his delivery is iffy). I really liked this finale. A lot of things that happen feel like warming up for things like whatever the WEAPON fights will be. I'm hoping they remember to bring back "Birth of a God" at some point in Part 3 cuz losing that would be a damn shame. As for the ending, I love the final stretch, and there's a few curiosities I enjoy pondering (like if Cloud and Aeris were fighting Sephiroth in the White Materia itself, and if Zack was in the Black Materia), and I love how much more important Aeris felt as an Ancient throughout the story. However, since we're still not done with the story and it's not an introduction to its ideas like Remake, it didn't have as strong of a conclusion. It was more or less a "To Be Continued" which left things hanging on an awkward note. Plus, while it's all stupendously done, Rebirth plays it way safer in diverging which is a shame that much of what Remake was trying to break free from didn't end up feeling as important here.

[@StandAloneForever]

I read an interesting take on the take on the divergence given that remake was about breaking from fate. You can find it on medium. In summary rebirth is saying that fate may be broken but we are still who we are and so will not really do much different. And that multiple universes basically suggests this, in them Biggs is still an eco terrorist and will act as such, Zack is still a hero, seph is still evil. And that it's not fate that makes the future, it's who we are and that is still the same

[@AngelusX92]

Definitely didn’t hate the ending but does make me a little hesitant. Hope they can finish the story off satisfyingly and maybe reel back the side content a bit and if it’s not fun get rid of it

[@1wayroad935]

Nice to see that a lot of people are mad at this game just like Remake. It's really amusing to see.

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

No one is "mad". They're just pointing out Square's pretentious and shitty writing. Anyway it will be "amusing" when the sequel bombs even further because Square can't make a normal remake.

[@timlerch7425]

I think anything Pat or Max says will be more correct than me, but I'd like to throw in my two-cents that Rebirth is also a story where you helped another universe's Aerith live, but you still lost 'yours'. A lot of multi-verse stuff covers being able to take what you want from them to make your universe better, but its rare to cover if you just completely screwed that other universe over. I dunno, I'm just spitballing to add to the 'she's dead, but also not really tho.' pile.

[@Bizarrrrrrroman]

5:25:45 Media literacy isn't down, it's dead. They made a real gameshow out of Squid Game, people think Scott Pilgrim being a shitty person is a hot take instead of the point of the series, and that Me! Me! Me! anime music video became a cosplay trend instead of being recognized as a warning about media addiction. I feel like this is how it may have looked as the Roman Empire gave way to medieval times, like we're about to passively lose half of society's collective intelligence.

[@AntiNihilist]

I still cant get over how Pat basically ignored magic at the end. Zack has every magic, but you wouldnt know from watching here. Sure, you can do the fights without it but it is part of the gameplay...

[@fpejanovic]

Barett at 4:58:30 - "it's a terrible day for rain" personally disappointed the ending pat predicted didnt pan out (cloud dying instead of aerith, zack replacing him as a party member), would have been super cool instead they just doubled down and REALLY made the story of Cloud and Aerith incredibly tragic, like WOW is that fucking sad and depressing. Not quite NGE levels, but for a happy go lucky FF game the psycho break that cloud is experiencing and the selfless sacrifices Aerith makes through her entire life just hit hard. I do like that 'reunion' was the convergence of worlds and that Sephiroth's grand plan is just Instrumentality with him using Jenova as a big Rei

[@MajorFunParts2]

Once again, the people who are mad this game was made are funny. Too late boys, games are already made. As always, keep being mad chat. It changes nothing. Also Zack is the best!

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

Lol no ones mad. They're just rightfully pointing out this game's shitty writing. You stupid clowns can enjoy part 3 bombing even further.

[@TheShockVox]

@@dickthebirthdayboy2132ok

[@Black_Rabbit_84]

I really didn't like how the ending handled Aerith's death. Her death in the original game was such an iconic moment of pure emotion. There wasn't any confusion about the fact that Sephiroth killed the s#!t out of her. The buildup was great, the event was an absolute gutpunch, and the aftermath had weight. But in Rebirth it's all up in the air. She's dead, but she's still around, and maybe she'll come back, or the other universe Aerith will play a part. Then Zack shows, and there's 3 incredibly long boss fights taking place over multiple timelines/dimensions. Its just too much, too fast. It needed to be handled more like The Red Wedding in Game of Thrones was done. Emotionally devastating event, cut to black, roll credits. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind Rebirth's ending, but I feel like they traded a moment of pure emotional impact for contrived multiverse confusion and ambiguity. I get that they couldnt just have Aerith die exactly like she did in the original, but they could have given it more impact than they did.

[@CrimsonPhoenixBen]

"Aerith died in 1997 this is a NEW game!" I don't wholly agree with Pat's argument here when SO much of the game is spent recreating key moments from the original. Like 90% of it is the same Final Fantasy VII story retold beat by beat for a new audience. I actually wanted to see them commit to an entirely new story MORE than they did but most important of all, it needed to be good. The ending doesn't have that same emotional impact that the original moment in the 97 game did, not even close. For the people who enjoy lore and speculation there's a lot going on that's plenty interesting, but for the people the value narrative and characters over everything else it's unsatisfying.

[@crazygamer4260]

I think it's cloud is crazy/super in denial. Notice they didn't show the iconic scene of him dumping her body into the water, because to him why would he if she's alive.

[@TheShockVox]

@@CrimsonPhoenixBenthen it’d just Be a rehash. Eh I find what this game is doing to be more interesting than a modern remake of the game.

[@CrimsonPhoenixBen]

@@TheShockVox That's what I'm saying, too much of this remake is a rehash of the original. I'd love to be more invested in a new story but it's pretty much just the old story with some twists layered on top. What's going on with the multiverse isn't substantial enough to feel emotional attachment to.

[@Black_Rabbit_84]

@CrimsonPhoenixBen yeah I agree with that. Aerith didn't need to die, as Rebirth is its own game and doesn't have to completely retread the original beat for beat. In fact, if Aerith had lived I'd have been fine with it. What I didn't like was that they DID kill her, but handled it in such a way that there was no chance for any emotional impact. And while I 100% agree with Pat in that the ending isn't really that complicated, it was needlessly convoluted. A good cliffhanger ending should leave you excited for what will happen next, not wondering about what the hell just happened.

[@JesseAnderson]

I don't understand what they're trying to do with this holy/meteor lifestream bullshit, and I don't appreciate how they replaced the somber Jenova fight with some bombastic boss fight followed by yet more Sephiroth edging because they need a final boss. Genuinely not sure if I'm even going to play the 3rd game, I don't like what they're doing with this new shit at all.

[@AGMSP]

I agree. In fact, if I remember right, the devs said Rebuild of Evangelion was a big inspiration for the remake project. This explains alot of why this ending feels like a convuluted cluster fuck. See, when Dark Souls leaves us with unexplained questions, it's never about the main plot. The only things left unanswered are aspects of background lore. This is the main plot going convuluted and leaving really important things up to interpretation. I don't appreciate it when I have to make up for lazy writing.

[@aceflibble]

What's there to not understand? In the original game, Meteor is going to destroy the world, Holy speeds it up, and the Lifestream directed by Aerith stops it. This game simply fleshes that out. We see Aerith getting to grips with the Lifestream, rather than just having control over it out of nowhere. We see she isn't banking on Holy, unlike the original where it's just implied. We see the black and white powers are an explicit yin and yang combo, again unlike the mere implications of the original. We even get to see how Marlene got her insight, as opposed to the OG where she just randomly knows what's happening in the very last FMV. So, if anything this game is way more explicit, and explaining in detail, what is happening, opposed to the out-of-nowhere revelations of before. If you could follow the original game, surely you can follow this *less* obscure version.

[@AGMSP]

@@aceflibble Yes. And that's great. Like I said, fleshing out the world and cleaning up details is fantastic. It's the stuff they drastically change like Alternate universes and Clear Materia and how we just have to interpret what it means is confusing. It's just like what Rebuild did to Eva; Fleshing out information that was minor, and completely derailing what mattered. It feels more like Nomura is directing the game like it's Kingdom Hearts, and Nojima trying to make stakes so fucking high to add a more romantic edge to it. I like how some things were elaborated, but why fuck with the main plot in such a bizzare way? In short, elaborating small gripes in og's story is good for worldbuilding, but derailing the main plot and telling us to make sense of it fucking blows. It's just the main plot that confuses me.

[@7U57HTJRYGHG]

@@aceflibble see that is all good and dandy so WHY THE FUCKING TIME GHOSTS IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!? THAT IS SHIT SUPER POINTLESS NOW!!!! Ughhhh so stupid!!! If we arrived at the same place we did not need all this pointless oooooo you broke fate tho everythings super different" except it isnt, it change jackshit the Eva Rebuilds have the fucking balls to heavily differ and change some endings for the characters like yeah they still arrive at their og thematical conclusions but their context changes now, with FVII we had all this teasing about changing fate and yet the only one motherfucking thing that everyone wanted to see changed you didnt have the balls to change

[@1wayroad935]

@@AGMSP It'll certainly confuse you since the main plot isn't finished.

[@Rello84]

oof ending