Pathfinder: WotR (Beta) - Magus Class & Archetypes Mechanics/Overview

[@Fynzmirs]

Magus might just be my favourite class design-wise. There are a ton of different gishes (fighter/mages) in Pathfinder and D&D but most of them are casters with some survivability or fighters who buff themselves before fights. To me magus is the only class which really fulfills the whole "spellsword" archetype to its fullest. There are some other options for casting and fighting at the same time but they all come online quite late while the magus feels like the magus from the begining.

[@brothermutant7370]

Totally agree. Love my Magus builds.

[@colinsmith1495]

My one problem with the core Magus build is that, since the armor they can wear changes as they level up, it really makes the initial stat build a problem. Do you invest mostly in Str for attack and damage, and not so much in Dex, planning to rely on heavier armor later but being vulnerable earlier? Or do you dump Str and damage to instead focus on Dex for AC, planning to rely on light armor from the beginning and not actually benefit from better armor later on?

[@brothermutant7370]

@@colinsmith1495 Great thing about the Magus class is you can do either. If you want DEX build, I suggest you go DEX/IINT and make a Sword Saint (they don't wear armor). If you want a STR build, you can go Magus or Eldritch Scion (my personal favorite) and slowly build into that armor. If you want a little DEX and still use armor, go for an Eldritch Archer build (the one where they channel RAY spells into their arrows/ranged weapons) and rely on nice DEX and a decent set of Mithral Chainshirt to get your AC high enough for that random attack that might hit you as you are a ranged attacker. Magus are EXTREMELY versatile imho. Similar (although Divine casters) builds in the War Priest class.

[@colinsmith1495]

@@brothermutant7370 I get all that, and it really can be an awesome class, but I feel like a class shouldn't RELY on archetypes to make it functional. A Str build plain Magus will have trouble surviving until 7th level to even get medium armor unless there's also a mage (or wand) to cast Mage Armor (or later buffs like mirror image). Another build option is a Dex-built Magus leveraging the Dervish Dance feat with a single scimitar. You can't use a shield or two-handed weapon anyway, so that part of Dervish Dance is no penalty. That way you get Dex to damage AND attack with a high-crit weapon, and can rely on Dex for your armor throughout the game unless some late-game heavy armor gives you some tempting benefits of some kind. This is again reliant on an obscure feat from a later region-specific publication, though.

[@brothermutant7370]

@@colinsmith1495 I don't see the concern. You can wear light armor like a chainshirt (which is the same amount of armor as Mage Armor spell), you can cast SHIELD spell at level one if you choose, you can even learn Blur and Mirror Image by level 4 if you want to feel tougher. Sure, the first two to three levels feel weaker (it ISN'T a Fighter OR a Wizard) but it does what both can't separately. Also, if they don't add Dervish Dance in the game, modders HAVE added it to Pathfinder: Kingmaker so you can expect that it will show up one way or another. Most Dex-based Magus use either the Scimitar if STR based or Rapiers if DEX based. Your choice to make it whatever way you like. I made an Eldritch Scion with a snake motif that was a SKILLS monkey and she did just fine. Your problem might be comparing the Magus class to other classes. Fighters can be great for STR or DEX builds as they get so much in Feats/Armor/Weapon choices and their survivability shows. Wizards are squishy as all hell, but if you can get them to level 5 or higher, they become ridiculous for both damage and survivability. Magus are Jack of All Trades, Masters of none. BUT, they are definitely fun to play as a toon. I can confirm, until they get to level 4, they FEEL pretty weak. But, after that, they can be amazing additions to any team.

[@7TonyMontana7]

A potential heads up to people planning to play a Magus. Most Demons (which is abundant in the pnp WotR version) are immune to electricity (I assume that is true here too), so the standard Shocking Grasp build might be less effective here.

[@MortismalGaming]

There are mythic feats that bypass immunities and resistances

[@blacksebbeth]

Another important note. Eldritch Archer can't utilize touch magic but rather ranged based attacks such as rays and cantrips.

[@shawnjohnson4732]

Important note: Eldritch Scions are also charisma casters instead of Int

[@shyamsundarrajan2469]

Can you explain how charisma casters differ from Int and why it maybe better then int ?

[@TheAxeliono]

@@shyamsundarrajan2469 I don’t think there’s an inherent difference but it would affect what you could multiclass with and what skills would make sense to level

[@JesusKreist]

@@shyamsundarrajan2469 Charisma based aka. spontaneous casters get a set number of magic uses per day which they can cast when they want. Those spells do not need to be prepared beforehand. The number of spells available is usually lower than compared to a "regular" caster and they can't copy scrolls into their spellbook. It'd be normal that in the spellbook of a spontanous caster you'd be able to see 6 different spells while a "regular" caster has 18 different spells there. A spontaneous caster has not to choose which spell to prepare but to choose which spell to take at level up. But he in turn can cast for instance mage armor 10 times a day and not only 2 times a day like "regular" casters can if they prepared that many. Basically they trade flexibility for availability.

[@shyamsundarrajan2469]

@@JesusKreist oh ok i got it now thank you. However keeping the status points you get from Int in mind which would be better sword magic build sword saint or elderditch scion ?

[@shyamsundarrajan2469]

@@JesusKreist Also how does spell damage scale for Charisma based casters on int or charisma?

[@rochin76123]

Thanks for that Sir. Armored Battlemage is my go to Magus archetype. I have never been a fan of the crit shocking grasp builds from my long time spend in table top games once the Magus class came out.

[@Preest80]

Dude your builds have helped me out a ton, just wanted to say thanks!

[@mr.sarcasm106]

I came to your channel for dos2 content and stayed because you have all the same tastes as I do. Good luck on the YT dream!

[@chrislemaster75]

One of my players just created a magus. They are so fun!

[@1_embassy__propouse518]

I really enjoyed Magnus in PF:KM but I must admit vanilla game Magnus was kinda dull and required mods to work well and be enjoyable. It required turn-based mode (either the one latter implemented by the Owlcat or the mod one) and various feats that weren't implemented in the game but made P&P Manus great -Intensified Magic, Spell Perfection. It also missed a lot of spells Magi utilise like Bladed Dash, Phase Step, Borrowed Time and many others that mainly were either gap-closers or affected weapon attacks and were useful mostly just by Magi alone due to the nature of Spellstrike+Spellcombat. I hope Owlcat don't forget about Magi completely as the did in PF:KM.

[@30noir]

Magnus?

[@July-gj1st]

Thank you so much. I just got this game as a gift and I was seriously struggling to pick between this and Inquisitor. I think I'll go with this and do inquisitor for the next playthrough.

[@Christian_Bagger]

Just Sword Saint in of itself has both dex and str builds and different way to go about that are viable on high difficulty. Magus is so damn flexible.

[@FanOWater]

Being new to Pathfinder, discussing how to assign ability points would be useful. I know they give the thumbs up hints, but what to dump or bump would be useful. Thanks again.

[@Seigmoraig1]

Usually you can safely dump 3 different stats depending on what class you are making, Strehgth, Intelligence or Charisma. Anything that doesn't rely on melee damage or Composite Bows can dump Strength. This includes most casters and crossbow users. You can dump Charisma if your class doesn't use it. You can dump Intelligence if your class doesn't use it and you don't care about having more that 1 skill point per level Never dump Dexterity, Constitution or Wisdom. Dex gives you AC and Reflex saves. Con gives you HP and Fortitude Saves. Wis gives you Will saves, most of the spells which will make you lose control of your character are Will saves which is why it's super important. For Will saves, they are extremely important for any melee class and it's a really good idea to invest 2 feats into Iron Will and Improved Iron Will to bump up that save as high as possible.

[@FanOWater]

@@Seigmoraig1 Thanks. I'll keep all that in mind on my next character. Cheers

[@olorinmagus4479]

You forgot one of the most important part about Eldritch Scions, they cast like a sorcerer as well

[@Mandaiish]

I'm planning on making a STR Sword Saint and than using the Legend path and putting levels into Rowdy Rogue, just gotta think of a weapon to choose, think maybe a double sword or bastard sword

[@TheLukemcdaniel]

My problem with the chosen weapon, and weapon focus in general for this game, is you have almost zero chance of actually getting that fucking weapon past maybe being handed one as part of your starting equipment. Choose wrong, and you're wasting a feat later down the line to match up with what you got. Either you need to be able to switch that for free on a level-up(only at level ups/retrains to keep it from being too cheesy) or it needs to cover a group of weapons.

[@Fynzmirs]

The only explanation for me being so early is that I have suddenly learnt how to cast quickened haste

[@ChanceRiddle]

You forgot to mention that Eldritch Scion is a spontaneous caster instead of a prepared one. Also weird fact, in the PnP version they use Bloodrager bloodlines instead of Sorcerer bloodlines, they use and "Eldritch Pool" (which is pretty much the same as their arcane pool) to get access to the bloodrage powers. I'm surprised the Hexcrafter loses the arcana, in the PnP they can pick hexes or arcana.

[@razorflossrazor2937]

That's probably going to be changed

[@reedofwater]

@Mortismal_Gaming I hope you can go over the Eldritch Scion in-depth like you just did for the Blood Kineticist, it's a sub-class that has a LOT of nuance and possibilities.

[@neilg5579]

Due to the nature of video games magi technically gain the highest attack in the game due to enhancement bonuses of two stats increasing their accuracy when using arcane accuracy

[@brothermutant7370]

Throw in a Transformation spell after buffing your weapon to be a +5, and you got a nice hitting melee class.

[@bubbly_ghost]

Coming from DnD and never touching Pathfinder some things are easily similar while others completely make me stutter step lmao. Biggest one was that all attacks need Str, first character I gave a negative str rogue. . .yeah.

[@wdf70]

Late reply, but I did the same thing. Coming from D&D 5E myself and it can be a little jarring, but you've probably already figured out that grabbing the Weapon Finesse perk allows you to make attacks with dex instead of strength and is available to most classes as long as they have 13 dex (if I recall, I could be wrong.) Should be able to give it to a Rogue from level 1 so they can make use of that. Hope you've been having a good time with the game. Cheers.

[@bubbly_ghost]

@@wdf70 Yea, figured that out, sneak attack can be a bit weird proc wise though. Nd nah, haven't played for a bit till a lot of bug fixes come out.

[@Max2ds]

Doesn’t armored battelmage lose spell combat? They keep spell strike, but not combat; meaning they can’t do the whole “standard action spell and full attack” in one round. If I’m remembering that correctly, then wouldn’t true magus be wasted on them? I mean they don’t have spell combat, so how could that ability even work?

[@justinsellers9402]

Perception should be a class function for every class.

[@brentbell5077]

I'm learning how to use one in a current game and I'm about to be lvl 4. It would be nice if someone would show usage in a game as that is how I learn.

[@josephdragunov374]

How to play Magus - Sword Saint but uses a Longsword and still get to wear Light to Medium Armor?

[@neilg5579]

My favorite thing about magus is casting a spell and then doing a full attack. Nothing like casting haste on your party and then doing full and an extra attack in one turn. Dimensional door allows magus to do full attacks at long range which nothing can compare to that

[@chadstacy]

Sword Saint still gunna be the premiere tank

[@brothermutant7370]

You gonna make one then? Str- or Dex-based build? I assume DEX with a finessable weapon.

[@ruyan247]

I can't get over my sword Saint Aldori Defender Monk Duelist char with Dueling sword. Too bad they changed the arcana bonus to armor, but that means I can drop the Monk for something else... Maybe Rouge for sneak attack.

[@jlushefski]

Sword Saint, melee sorc (sorc/dd/monk/ek+lich), and instinctual warrior are all broken tank types. I was really hoping they would fix this monk splash, unarmored super tank shenanigans for WotR. Sure, I can role play a tank and use heavy armor, but how about just balancing the game properly?

[@ChaosDanc]

A question, in Kingmaker enchanting your weapon with your arcane pool didn't stack. Have they changed it? For example if you had a + 2 weapon you could only get it to +5 not +7 is that correct?

[@MortismalGaming]

Yeah it's my understanding the cap is +5 and you can use the weapon properties part of it to keep from wasting points etc

[@rochin76123]

+5 is the highest enchantment bonus. You may see things on the web saying +7 or higher this is in reference to the cost of making the enchantment. Like flaming is a +1 impact being +2 and so on. Higher bonuses listed in weapons are to determine the cost of the weapon for table top games and such.

[@ChaosDanc]

@@MortismalGaming Thank you mate

[@ChaosDanc]

@@rochin76123 Thank you for the reply

[@brothermutant7370]

In PF:KM, you could always get it to +5 but COULD get it to +7 if you made it a BANE weapon though (nice little cheat there).

[@nicuradu5192]

Did they fix the last pathfinder?

[@handcannon9814]

Dragon disciple is the best

[@brianmcdonald5656]

Does using a dueling sword count as dual wielding for the purpose of the spellstrike ability?

[@ChanceRiddle]

It shouldn't do. Dueling sword's are just one-handed weapons. Also they are exotic weapons so only the Sword Saint.

[@brianmcdonald5656]

@@ChanceRiddle I was thinking of doing a magus with a dueling sword, taking a background which gives the proficiency.

[@Squeeble00]

Weapons that act as dual wield like the two bladed sword do work with spellstrike iirc, but spell combat won't work with them because no open hand