The Limitations of the Marvel Cinematic Universe PART 2

The first 500 people to sign up for Skillshare at this link get 2 months free skl.sh/patrickhwillems8
Matt Zoller Seitz’s review of Infinity War bit.ly/2JpSkXE
“Black Panther is Amazing Why are its CG Models so Terrible?” by Devindra Hardawar engt.co/2JqUSRC
PATREON ► / patrickhwillems
PODCAST ► bit.ly/2TqZtuA
REDDIT ► / thrillems
______________________________________
TWITTER: / patrickhwillems
FACEBOOK: / patrickhwillems
INSTAGRAM: / patrickhwillems
______________________________________
FEATURING
Chloe Holgate
Matt Torpey / matthewtorpey
Jake Torpey / jrtorpey
Swedish voiceover by Lucas Mass
Narrative segments written by Patrick Willems, Jake Torpey & Mike Curran
SPECIAL THANKS
Amine Hechehouche
Dave Wiskus
______________________________________
Music by Epidemic Sound
Stock footage by BigStock
Photos by Big Bang Comics
______________________________________
SEND US SOME MAIL:
Patrick Willems
P.O. Box 380333
Brooklyn, NY 11238

[@patrickhwillems]

I want you all to know that I cleaned my laptop screen right after I shot the outro and realized how dirty it was

[@jaketylenol]

Patrick (H) Willems “the Russo’s have the most boring fight locations” Uuuh, What? Did you forget the fights in SPACE, The visual spectacle of Doctor Strange and Ironman battle with the Black Order The intensely shot combat of Wintersolder vs Cap on the highway? The airport fight scene a BORING location? Bruh, it was in a place no one could get hurt and the superheroes could go all out, and in the second half they did. Giant Man fighting the flight based superheroes, Spider-Man fighting Winter Soldier and Falcon outwitting all their gadgets and tech, Hawkeye and Antman teaming up to take down Ironmans suit, like... No spectacle my ASS

[@slimfluw101]

Patrick (H) Willems this dude is puny and petty

[@finlaykusik4839]

thanks so much for the vid Patrick, you're one of the few you tubers and essayists that actually give my ideas form and helps me write my stories more effectively. Much love.

[@Alphajet101]

You do NOT understand Civil War at all. It's almost as if you're making a persona to make people boycott Marvel. I guess SOMEONE has to suck DC's dick.

[@JenniferMcMahonhawaii78]

I have often wondered what would happen to Captain in America if you got blasted with gamma radiation... Great video btw.

[@jordanrodriguez7502]

"my despair has gone passed 1960s French cinema, it must take a new form: Swedish cinema"

[@davids9520]

Rut Ro! No more Swedish films for you! Depressing!!!

[@danielmannandersen2332]

Next up....Patrick cosplaying as Pippi Longstockings

[@Lucario2405]

I literally had to stop the Video right there, because I couldn't keep myself from laughing out aloud. :D

[@Puag80]

I'm swedish and i appreciate that Patrick manages to get an actual swedish person reading the lines, when it's so rare when it happens in actual hollywood films. Guess it says something about his channel....

[@RelativelyBest]

@@Puag80 I guess he wanted to make up for the hilarious attempt at Swedish in the "Flash by Ingmar Bergman" video. (Which I actually found sorta fascinating, because it almost sounds like some very thick dialect or sister-language like say Danish.)

[@vadarman9906]

Thor: The Dark World uses Low-key lighting." I see what you did there.

[@davincent98]

Also "Dark"

[@Leatherbubba]

I don't like how they set up villains in one movie, and when they finally bring them back, they're just plot devices that die quickly. Like Crossbones and Klaw.

[@BubblesZap]

at least Klau had a lot more personality and the best fight scene in the movie for his second appearance

[@filmtoppings]

Crossbones and Klaw were ultimately irrelevant though, so who cares. Civil War would've been tiring had they left him around, same with Black Panther had they had two villains

[@Retrostar619]

That is a good point. Klaw had potential.

[@rahullulla352]

The most forgettable one is Wolfgang Strucker. Setting him up at the end credits of captain america 2 and killing him off in age of ultron.

[@jacksondavies3595]

Crossbones had a cool look, and the actor was good. I wanted more of him.

[@AlexRider589]

"Putting Robert Redford in your supermovie doesn't make it an Alan Pakula film." SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE BROTHERS IN THE BACK.

[@ZPM7]

The importance of the relationship between the hero and normal people is a lesson that comic book movies thoroughly failed to learn from the Raimi Spiderman movies. My favorite superhero set-piece is still when Spiderman barely stops the metro train from derailing into a river. It reminds us who the character is, that he ultimately does what he does because he cares about people. It also touches on why people started telling stories about heroes: it inspires us, it reminds us that we can help others. It's a similar problem to what comics fandom itself falls into: obsessing over the melodrama of the heroes' lives, rather than the impact of their actions on other people.

[@huntcd2012]

To be fair, not every superhero movie finds the heroes in a “save civilians setting”. If they were all about stopping the villains from destroying the city/world, things would get kind of dull. Like I really enjoyed how Ant-Man was about the heroes stopping the villain BEFORE he had a chance to endanger civilians for example.

[@radrno7]

@@huntcd2012 But then there isn't really much of a conflict to the movie is there? You can see the heroes pretty much doing everything to stop... nothing really. I mean, in the case of Ant-Man, if they're such bad guys, they don't really need to do all that heist stuff, just get proof to get them in jail. Not only that, it's like the movie HAS to tell you they're doing the right thing, while doing things like breaking into private property and stealing. Just because someone is selling advanced technology for weapons division companies doesn't really justify breaking the law, at least not to the point of making everyone think "omg, they have to be stopped at any cost!". If the movie actually shows what the villain's plan could do of negative impact on innocent people, there's a much stronger and compelling motivation for us to understand the hero's actions. They killed the guy, destroyed his suit and I believe all the data he had, but that doesn't exactly mean someone else won't manage to do it again AND it doesn't really have any meaningful connection in terms of character or story. They just stopped him from doing something potentially dangerous, that's it. Nothing to Scott's redemption arc as they don't have anything to do with each other, nothing to Hank or Hope's family arc as he also has nothing to do with it and nothing to do with the crime themes as they don't explore his character in that aspect of the movie. Pretty much a waste of a villain, hope that wasn't all they had for Yellow Jacket.

[@tricko8000]

Imo Spiderman 1 and 2 are better than the entire MCU. There's so much heart in them and the characters are so relatable that you really feel for them when they are in trouble. Also the action scenes give me fking goosebumps, something the MCU has never done for me, those movies feel so empty, formulaic and boring.

[@alfa01spotivo]

Kveld That's your opinion mate. Objectively they were great superhero films

[@sauravsaha7465]

@@alfa01spotivo Funny how you are stating your opinion to be the objective opinion despite the fact that it being an opinion makes it subjective. I love the first two Spiderman movies. I feel like they are great Superhero movies. But to say that they are objectively great superhero movies requires a list of criteria that defines what makes a movie a great superhero movie.

[@LampShadeAffair]

The progression from Charlie Brown to French cinema is the most fitting for this series. Love it!

[@italex9093]

The climactic fight of Black Panther would have been 100 times better if it was actually on a train as opposed to just on the track

[@savage7ecneek437]

I was let down by black Panthers action.....after his reveal and that action in winter soldier

[@rocksteel9238]

I actually kind of think the whole location worked from an emotional perspective because when the train split them apart and strip them of their powers it allowed for an emotional talk that reiterated to the audience why they must fight.

[@wilsonram39]

Dang, didn't even think of that but you're right. Rather than have a fight where they sit on a dull looking track and just avoid a train every once in awhile, it'd be *way* more thrilling for them to be taken through the vast Vibranium mines and having to deal with the shifting G-Forces and directions the train would go. I also feel that, since the whole conflict is about what Wakanda should do with its' power and their power is *literally* from the crapton of vibranium they have, there could've been something symbolic about them trying to reach the vibranium core, no idea what that'd be though.

[@OverZaEast]

The Black Panther final fight indeed turn me off. I mean It is directed by Ryan Coogler who made an awesome fight scene one on one without CG. Why can't the final fight of BP is just helmetless Chadwick Boseman vs Helmetless Michael B Jordan ? Make the fight brutal. raw, more emotional and that final sunset scene will be more and more dramatic and emotional.

[@blokey8]

@Funk O'Matic So they clearly know what to do, but the waterfall fight is a little too chopped up and it just shows up the lack of drama in the final fight.

[@QuarterCoyote]

I just realized that the Civil War airport fight scene looks a lot like the X-Men 90's TV show opening.

[@shaid1111]

Ehh... no. It most certainly does not look that awesome.

[@Alec.V.]

They keep addressing him as “Patrick Willems.” What happened to the “H”? WHO IS THIS MAN AND WHAT HAS HE DONE WITH OUR BOY?

[@battleupsaber462]

Clearly a Skrull imposter.

[@diegorojas8959]

The (H) is silent

[@najrenchelf2751]

Wert's Channel, CLEVER! 😂

[@drewdeyoung7569]

Is this a new chapter in the Patrick (H) Willems lore? Is this canon?

[@davids9520]

After that Swedish cinema segment, he has literally gone to (H)ell. (g)

[@aidanlentz6194]

I lost it when the music started playing and you solemnly asked "Who are Joe and Anthony Russo?"

[@Jay-jb2vr]

The *BEST* thing in MCU's arsenal

[@ProfBowen]

Reportedly Whedon had to fight to keep the Hawkeyes farm scene in

[@theoriginalsache]

If I recall correctly, Perlmutter insisted on the Thor in the Pool scene and Whedon HATED it and only agreed to do it if they left the farm segment in, which Marvel was opposed to. (As comics Hawkeye is a bachelor and kind of a hot mess. And also because comics execs tend to hate the idea of superheroes with a family.)

[@andybates1231]

@@theoriginalsache This is incorrect. First of all, Perlmutter does not have anything to do with Marvel Studios, so he would have no influence on the movies. As Whedon explains in the commentary, he wrote the Thor scene in the pool, but it was originally supposed to be longer and actually explain more. The studio wanted him to cut it down, and Whedon resisted. Then they said, "Okay, if you keep the pool scene then you have to cut out Hawkeye's farmhouse." So eventually Whedon relented and that's why the pool scene is so short.

[@theoriginalsache]

@@andybates1231 That's why I said "If I remember correctly." I know the issue was with those two scenes, but I got the details reversed, apparently. On that note, you are incorrect about Perlmutter's involvement with the MCU. Perlmutter was HEAVILY involved with the movies until Feige wrestled control of the whole department. Because of the nature of how films are made, however, the first MCU movie that Perlmutter was completely uninvolved in... was Ragnarok.

[@z7983]

I actually think if studio didn't interfere Age of Ultron would've been as good as the first Avengers movie which imo is still the best Avengers movie and I would've loved to see Whedon direct future MCU movies tbh

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@theoriginalsache What about Shazam?

[@demondownload]

I'm rewatching Scott Pilgrim right now, and by God I'd have loved to see what Edgar Wright would've done with a Marvel-sized fight budget.

[@Cinetiste]

Especially knowing he was notably at the base of this whole "cinematic universe", since he made and planned the original Ant-Man script, worked several years on it, even before the first Iron-Man was made, and after constant delays, modifications and finally rewrite in his absence, he was put aside, had to leave without recognition. You are right, he and his team would have had the style for it.

[@BigFatCone]

@@Cinetiste Edgar Wright is so good at using film as a medium to its fullest. Every part of your body involved in the film watching experience is having a good time when it's a Wright joint.

[@pivelix]

At first I thought the James Gunn rehiring was just some kind of Patrick's dream sequence, but then I googled it and it is real! I am so happy right now.

[@terrancehall9762]

Horrible decision. White privilege

[@terrancehall9762]

@SpankMeSanta and replace the garbage actors too.

[@manastic7270]

It makes you wonder, how small the pool for talented yet cheapish hollywood directors is, for marvel having to be forced into rehiring Gunn back.

[@keithconnelly825]

Holy shit lmao there are so many pretentious pricks in these replies

[@QwertyCaesar]

So many salty alt-righters mad that Gunn got rehired lmao

[@ShiningCatProductions]

That's why I feel like Iron Man 3 is underrated: it's devoted to exploring the emotional fallout of Avengers, and doesn't set up anything new. Same thing with Thor the Dark World. They're breather episodes.

[@Marandahir]

And Guardians Vol.2 in many ways. And Ant-Man and the Wasp!

[@gabbar51ngh]

Lmao Age of Ultron and Ironman 3 was what made me lose interest in MCU. The were pretty bad and age of ultron felt like a long episode set up to introduce characters and plots for the future movies. this is kind of problematic since each movie loses it's core due to always being set up for the next.

[@lynnerose7891]

Incorrect. The movie absolutely set up future films, and Thor The Dark World is LITERALLY about an Infinity Stone.

[@lynnerose7891]

@@Marandahir It’s literally setting up other films for after Infinity War. Same with Ant-Man and the Wasp, which is getting a sequel ffs.

[@intergalactic92]

@@lynnerose7891 not really. The core narrative of Antman and the Wasp is informed by a previous film, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the wider MCU narrative of the infinity stones and could be easily ignored. The mid credit scene doesn’t really count. All the marvel movies do that: throw in an extra scene at the end to tease the next film.

[@poego6045]

Lol, so, I was watching this, and was like "....this sounds awfully familiar." Few minutes later, "this is VERBATIM something I've heard already." I remembered it was this Polygon article I just read. I thought I had stumbled on ground zero of one of those famous internet cases of plagiarism and was like "OH DAMN! I'm about to blow the LID off this thing!" So I looked at when this was posted. Then I looked at when the Polygon article was posted. "...huh, same day? Was it REALLY a huge coincidence or did the article copy this?" So I dug further... .... .. ......then I looked at who wrote the article and did a facepalm. It was Patrick Willems.

[@bravetherainbow]

Hahahahaha, I enjoyed that

[@andreapareti324]

He writes for Polygon? So that's why he has controversial opinions that are founded on ignoring things.. (I have nothing against the guy or Polygon, but I've disagreed with most of what he said so far in this essay series and I know that at least some Polygon writers outright do what I've stated above, so I couldn't resist drawing the parallelism..).

[@NarwahlGaming]

So, there's TWO Patrick Willemseses?!

[@SnugglesPrime]

@@NarwahlGaming but this one is the Patrick Willemsest.

[@diamond_dogs]

@Mahnarch Patrick: Into the Willemsverse

[@BadgerPride89]

I mean, honestly, this whole visual aesthetic/language schtick is why I prefer animated movies in the first place, because their vision has to be front and center and every single thing has to be designed at much deeper level than live action movies. There's just so much more that can be done, so much more that people will 'accept' coming from the medium. That said, I feel like the Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks animation studios were starting to fall down a similar rabbit hole that the MCU visual elements have, especially the 3D animated movies about people. They kinda feel pretty samey on some level. Honestly, for both live action superhero films AND animated films, Spiderverse arrived at just the right moment, reminding audiences and creators alike what strong vision and attention to design and themes could do for a movie. Arguably, Spiderverse has a very well-worn/tired comic book origin movie plot but the design, story, and themes surrounding that origin movie plot elevate it into an instant classic. Thanks, Sony.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

And so?

[@abepeterson7045]

@BadgerPride89 Please don’t thank Sony, if Sony had any faith in it then the whole thing would have been spiderverse cinematic universe set up. Instead thank Peter Ramsey (Director), Rodney Rothman and Phil Lord (Writers), and Danny Diman (VFX Supervisor).

[@Skallva]

Even still, I feel that Spiderverse was carried on its aesthetic alone. At its core, it's a pretty generic blend of Hollywood animated and superhero film tropes, just with an AU gimmick attached to it. Just another US animated kids' film in the boundless sea of US animated kids' films.

[@AnthonyGilera]

They need to bring the Marvel One Shots back.

[@nicholaso2365]

@jockadoobee I've always wanted them to do the one shots like what Pixar does before their movies at the theatres.

[@jaredjenkins99]

Yes. They could have done what Patrick described about Bucky discovering the things he did and who he really is quite well in a One-shot.

[@jimjam7928]

They need to explain what the hell happened with Ben Kingsley and the "real" Mandarin.

[@Darluk]

When he pointed out that all the outdoor scenes were flat, at first I thought, "No way...really?" Then I looked at the skies in every outdoor scene he used and they all look overcast - Marvel can only shoot scenes on cloudy days it seems. Cannot unsee.

[@matthewparker9276]

Cloudy scenes are a easier to cgi.

[@humanmanlastname8340]

@Funk O'Matic get your eyes checked, because i could perfectly see everything.

[@thehellinsidemyhead]

Speaking of the MCU not taking risks, I was genuinely surprised by which characters did and didn't get dusted. Characters like Spider-Man, Black Panther, and Doctor Strange were just introduced to this universe and immediately get the shaft while all the OG Avenegers are still there. A lot of these characters are just meeting each other for the first time too, wouldn't it have been more interesting if in Endgame we were stuck with a bunch of characters who are strangers to each other?

[@mr.shyryhud1659]

After End Game all I want is the Russos to make the Community movie.

[@NimhLabs]

.... have it be a crossover event with Office Space (US and UK version)... with a cameo from characters in Office Space.

[@Ren_Davis0531]

InverseAgonist You beat me by one hour. Lol.

[@AllWIllFall2Me]

As someone who's watched 4.5 seasons of Agents of SHIELD, I assure you, the only time it really serves the narrative the movies were lacking is in the fall of SHIELD itself. But I will also say it hits that beat very, very well. The fall of SHIELD is a HUGE thing when it happens in the narrative, and is often regarded as when the show 'really starts to get good', as it reveals that even some of the primary cast we've followed are part of the Hydra infiltration. Further, the loss of Nick Fury as the leader of SHIELD creates a lot of drama where the team has to adapt to his absence, conflicting with Hydra operatives, other factions of SHIELD that are rebuilding themselves, and forcing characters to become self-actualized and step into leadership roles. The show has quite a few issues, as various commentators have discussed (the first season is, in many ways, "Marvel presents Violent Scooby-Doo", the third season struggles with a lot of relationship drama in the direct "these two are dating, but have conflicts, this love interest character seems to drag down every episode they're in",) but when the show is on, it's very enjoyable, and I'd definitely recommend it.

[@travisspazz1624]

I think it's better every season with the exception of S4 being better than S5.

[@Marandahir]

Season 1 (through episode 16) explores the new status quo of living in a world with gods, heroes, and monsters set by The Avengers. Season 1's backhalf, along with most of Season 2, explores the new status quo set by The Winter Soldier. Season 2 also serves the narrative of Age of Ultron. That helicarrier makes no sense without Theta Protocol. Seasons 3 & 4 explore the Sokovia Accords (both before and after the signing) and the impact of that new status quo in Civil War. Season 5 is the first season to really stand far apart from any of the movies, but thematically mirrors Endgame. Season 6 is in the same boat as Season 5 for the same reasons. The show is ESSENTIAL watching for the MCU fan (as is Agent Carter). In many ways, these ABC shows are the predecessors to the Disney+ series in Phase 4: they star secondary protagonists from the movies (Coulson, Peggy, Howard), feature cameo appearances from other movie characters (Maria Hill, Nick Fury, Lady Sif, Dum Dum Dugan, Dr. Zola, etc) and now even characters FROM the shows have made their ways into the movies (Jarvis from Agent Carter is in Endgame). The other Netflix/Hulu/Freeform shows (along with ABC's flop Inhumans), not so much, though they're a lot of fun.

[@donsample1002]

It also manages to answer questions like "Where I'd that heli-carrier come from?"

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@Marandahir those other shows have connective tissues to each other and AOS Also those shows reference the films too

[@madnessarcade7447]

It’s more like marvel’s x files even tho that’s what people want now from Darcy and woo after WV ironically

[@KDCloudy]

I just had an epiphany that MCU is set better with a historical context. I remember watching Iron Man when I was 9-10 years old and blown away by how different it was from Raimi trilogy, The Dark Knight and Superman. The "I am Iron Man" scene was totally so fresh. Thor, too was so fresh. Asgard, so new to see on screen. The idea of someone being asleep for 70 years? Wow Phase one was good because they showed us different things from what we were used to from superhero movies. Now Marvel has become the norm. That's why Aquaman felt such a breath of fresh air..

[@lazyartiste_2357]

Same here.

[@hydrolito]

Anthony Rogers sleep for more than 500 years in story in 1929, they later called him Buck Rogers. Steve Rogers is also Captain America, and his partner is Bucky, so their names Rogers and Bucky copied from Buck Rogers.

[@cringekiller348]

Aquaman sucked

[@Devilsblood]

When it comes to color, Blade runner 2049 looks fantastic and has a great music score. I would choose Blade runner 2049 over the look of any of the MCU.

[@itszzzab7664]

Agreed 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@cringekiller348]

Nah Winter soldier looked great. Dc fanbois suck

[@petersmith9633]

I always say it; Marvel needs to make an entire film in the Jack Kirby style with the tube technology, epic scenes and dramatic poses. They could have done it with Captain Marvel and gave it a unique look and style.

[@nikomiller]

The Eternals movie will probably be the closest thing we will get to that.

[@andybates1231]

Kirby is overrated. His stuff was great for the time, but it's really dated now. If they adapt it to the MCU, at least all the people will have different faces!

[@nooranik21]

Totally agree with you about the civilians thing. Marcus from Cosmonaut Variety hour put it best. "I like heroic boy scout shit, show me the heroes being heroic."

[@travisspazz1624]

Something Whedon didn't shy away from.

[@travisspazz1624]

Something Joss Whedon didn't shy away from. Hell, in the S5 finale of Agents of Shield (Jed Whedon showrunner) they have no clue if they can beat the big bad, and brought up with the question of their number 1 priority, "we save lives".

[@derekskelton4187]

I mostly agree. I think some heroes need a little edge. Not Punisher levels though. Frankly I don't consider him any kinda hero, and that his fanbase get's real creepy in their hero worship. In general though yep I like heroes being heroic

[@jakerockznoodles]

@@derekskelton4187 *Frank* ly 😉

[@mjstraz3593]

I do agree that it's good, but do you really need it in EVERY film where they are fighting? or at least to the extent that Whedon did it? I think the movies would feel even more repetitive if they kept showing them saving random civilians

[@Davesknd]

The part with the lack of non-superhero perspective is actually why I do love the Antman movies so much. Louis and the gang are just a delight to have around

[@mud2294]

The last stretch of this video focuses on how Wheddon fleshes out superheroes with small details and whatnot, but i find weird how you didn't talked about Ant-man, quite literally the working class superhero. Both movies focus on stuff that affects the main cast and those around them and how they prevent really dangerous stuff from affecting inocent folks and loved ones. Those seem more close to what you are looking for and, IMO they are the sweetest and more relatable of Marvel movies. Also that Ant-Man TV spot where Paul and Douglas slap their bodies chanting "Ants" is the best promo Marvel has done in this past 10 years

I do agree with most things being addressed in the video. However, I think it is unfair to say that Infinity War does not possess iconic imagery. Whenever I think about that movie, the Thanos moon toss, the Dr. Strange x Thanos fight, Red Skull as "Death" reveal and Thor's Strombreaker throw all come to mind as above average visual accomplishments.

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

Yea the moon beung thown was amazing and thanos fight with tony as too

[@nolaffinmatter]

Abaixo da Crítica Thanos’ introductory shot, silhouetted and dragging Thor’s body behind him. Thanos waking up in a pool that reflects the galaxies above, sitting up to show the eclipse and mountain range in the background, opening his hand to see the Soul Stone. The whole fact that every location has its own color palette, from green Wakanda to orange Titan to purple [Soul Stone planet], red Knowhere, blue & yellow [dwarf forge planet]. IW had plenty of flat-looking aesthetics, but plenty of pretty good ones as well. I also think Black Panther had its share of great aesthetic choices - it definitely earned its Oscar for Best Costumes, for one. But I agree with the larger point that the Harry Potter and Star Wars movies are examples of big adventure-blockbuster franchises whose visual style make the MCU look lazy.

[@clyvelawrence8820]

It has many iconic moments to me. I think of thanos’s monologue at the beginning, the moon throw, and of course the vormir scene. All of these are beautiful visually

[@Antiformed]

Red Skull standing in for Lady Death was stupid and made no sense though.

[@dublinjake]

The introductory shot of Cap. The final shot of Thanos.

[@466chalk]

Your despair has been upgraded! Welcome to Sweden!

[@YaYaMan]

“By the way i have not watched Agents of SHIELD so I am not going to talk about it.” 10 seconds later ‘How did Nick Fury get that helicarrier?’ Well .....

[@TheSorrel]

He didn't ask how he got it. His problem was, that nothing seems to have changed. Shield breaks down but, no problem, Nick still gets his helicarrier somehow.

[@DrewLSsix]

Ryan Paye how is it false? Fury still arrives at a crisis with a ship and full crew just like if Shield were still around. If the fall of shield was supposed to mean something it should have changed HOW Fury arrived and what he was able to do.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

@@RM-cn8pw He doesn't ignore it as he hasn't seen it

[@jasondiend4248]

@@TheSorrel It is explained in the MCU. Counter to popular belief the MCU isn't just the movies it is the tv shows as well. Even the Netflix shows take place within the MCU. If you skip an issue and are confused that means you're at fault not the story. There are a lot of problems between MCU movies and TV mostly because of how tv is a week to week story telling and must plan out its story arcs that way while movies take years to make. So while Civil War took 2 years to get going from writing to filming and final release the tv show has to answer these questions that are left answered. Who did Fury get a helicarrier AOS answers that. Cause they can adjust their story on the fly while the movies can't. So it is easier for them to do this.

[@TheSorrel]

@@jasondiend4248 That is not the point. The point is not that I need to know where fury got the Carrier from, it is that he can still get one after Shield broke down, making its destruction completely without consequence. When, like, the foundation of what held your universe together crumbles, I expect there to be more consequences that a change of labels and me having to watch even more media to understand it all.

[@mercury2mercury]

That shot w Luke when talking about striking images just made me gasp. TLJ always will have a spot in my heart.

[@jordansweet8054]

Me too.

[@o...o4144]

Personally, TLJ is my favorite SW movie. And I like it for the same reasons I dislike some of the Marvel movies: When you watch TLJ and the movie ends, you can say: "man, the characters changed" Rey now knows about her parents, Finn now fights for the cause and he is in love with Rose, Poe is now a food rebel, Kylo is the Supreme Leader, Luke redeemed himself and Snoke is dead. The characters changed a LOT, and that's my only problem with SOME of the Marvel movies. I want the characters (which I love) to change more! To face more problems and have more stakes. And TLJ also have a special place in my heart lol

[@mercury2mercury]

Enzo Saraiva I wholeheartedly agree! I’ve been turned off a lot from the MCU for that very reason never felt any meaningful change or challenge to the characters that shifted the story and their personal journey into an interesting direction. I see Daredevil and Legion and I think, wow like THIS is where superhero stories could go, and I feel like the MCU movies pale in comparison bc theyre not willing to explore change. Also I’m a big color guy so the flat color grading was always a bother and the overcompensation on later movies didn’t win me over either, I just wish they would stop playing it safe

[@jimjam7928]

I love how Willems unapologetically loves The Last Jedi. I do too; it clearly has flaws but it's easily the best Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi. As a huge fan of this franchise for most of my life (watched the OT as a kid, read the EU, never really liked the prequels though), it was so refreshing seeing some new vision and talent being brought to the table that brought back core original ideas like how the movie handles the Force and criticises the Jedi of the prequels. I'm just sitting here waiting for the day when the lunatic Prequel fanbase moves on and I can bask in the collective glow of love that Rian Johnson and this film deserve.

[@mercury2mercury]

@@jimjam7928 TLJs my fav too! I watched the prequels first as a kid then I went back and saw the OT and got kind of into the EU but that was never really my cup of tea. While I like the OT I do respect the prequels for trying to tell a different type of story trying to explore fascism and how that doesn’t invade as an outside force but from within the home. How fascism can grow and be voted for. the writing for this three movies was really all over the place unfortunately. They just stay in my pile of “I fuck w what you were tryna say but y’all didn’t stick the landing” movies lmao. That being said Revenge is like my #2 right behind TLJ :3

[@ThatGuyMontag]

Saying Homecoming's ending is about stopping a billionaire's stuff getting stolen seems unfair. There are several scenes which highlight the everyday dangers of this stuff being out there: the suburban alien arms deal, armed villain's walking around Parker's High School, Peter discovering that his suit has a lethal mode, the Washington monument scene right down to the *whole* Staten Island ferry scene. In fact it doesn't take much work to show "all this stuff casually being out there is dangerous to everyday people" is a key theme in the whole movie.

[@FB35959]

i think what might make that spiderman movie great/above average is to minimize the jokes, minimized the drama about highschool problems, and Re Cast the Entire Supporting Casts(Ned and Flash especially) except the Villain and get rid Ironman from that movie(Add him but only in some situations)

[@Dangerous2099]

Homecoming was a very poor portrayal of Peter Parker.

[@MrTheManav]

Thematically the ending was great and powerful but I stand with Patrick. It may not matter that the MCU cares less about the perspective of the regular guy, but it (the final plane scene) has Peter risking everything to go after the Vulture (trying to steal Stark stuff) pretty much only to show off he actually is a hero, which is his main goal throughout the movie. Also, the scenes you mentioned are nowhere near as important as that final scene. The moment when he emerges from the destroyed building until when he finally saves the vulture in the crashed plane show off what this Peter stands for, which is unfortunate that it has little impact to most peoples lives as much as the previous less important scenes.

[@robexists]

Most of the movie features scenes about the dangers of small amounts of *alien* technology getting out in public, among civilians. For the climax, it does specifically switch to being about Avengers/Stark's property being robbed, when they easily could've built the "one last job, and we're set for life" climax around a plane hauling a grand score of Chitauri tech instead, if they wanted to keep on-theme. I'm not sure where exactly I fall in this argument, but I think that's an interesting and important distinction. Knowingly or not, it becomes a movie about Spider-Man proving he's worthy of being an Avenger, by protecting the Avengers' stuff from a civilian in their blindspot. (And if the Avengers' blindness to civilian-level threats was a theme they were trying to do on purpose, to tie back in to Civil War, it's undermined because they're so scared of depicting Stark as negligent that they write in the whole thing about him secretly passing the alien weapons case to the FBI, which is why they were on the boat, and it becomes Spider-Man's fault the deal turns into a literal sinking ship - by doing so, the movie, accidentally or not, makes the case that the Avengers are right to be focused on bigger threats and leave civilian concerns to other organizations.)

[@mathewmurdock573]

Low Spec Player And I say, fuck that and leave it exactly how it is.

[@FlammaMan]

I like your point about the civilians being used less in the movies, which is why I really like Captain Marvel and her friendship with Maria. Also, that train fight, while not impressive, was engaging simply because, holy shit, the people on the train try and stop Carol from beating up the old lady. That was really cool and reminded me of past movies and even Raimi's Spider-Man.

[@HurricaneDDragon]

I definitely agree about the visuals and cinematography.

[@Da69expert1]

Exactly Infinity War should've felt Grand, like Star Wars for the first time in 1976, just visuals that take me to another planet (quite literally), and that just didn't happen, it felt very 2d for a lot of it's duration and I wasn't entranced by it's scenary. Ugh what an utterly disappointing film from a visual standpoint.

[@starkingbiker]

the ugliest franchise of all time

[@blokey8]

Regarding the pre-vis teams having more control of the action scenes, there's also the factor that those people tend to be less versed in cinematic language than the directors, and the scenes they control tend to have less of an emphasis on the drama of a scene than simply looking cool.

[@TheRockerX]

You know it's a good video when it's half an hour long but it still feels too short

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

Yeah, because none of his points can be backed up.

[@aolson1111]

@@IkeOkerekeNews You haven't been able to refute even one of his points.

[@andybates1231]

@@aolson1111 Pick one of his points and I'll refute it. Any one. There are a lot of holes here.

[@sjk8495]

I have to make a slight correction: I think Ant-Man and the Wasp does deal with some consequences of Winter Soldier and Civil War. Specifically, Scott ended up in house arrest due to siding with Cap, and we see him having to deal with that. Also, it's stated that Ghost would have been executed by SHIELD, but the organization's temporary downfall in Winter Soldier gave her the opportunity to escape. So in other words, Ant-Man and the Wasp would not have happened the way it did without Winter Soldier and Civil War. But overall, nice job on the video! A fun homage/parody throughout! Plus, the questions posed for the next part may be interesting to explore!

[@iPyroNigma]

It is important to note: At the end of Antman, Scott realises that his daughter is most important, and he should stay out of trouble in order to avoid leaving her daughter alone while he goes to jail. This is all is ignored when Scott takes a side with Cap. Scott ending up in house arrest is barely significant to his character (It is to the film but not to his development), and truly a VERY light consequence. Filmmakers and writers have made a good job to loosely connect films, but in reality, the thread keeping them together feels like a cope out. Of course, it is just my opinion.

[@robexists]

But it's still arguably a case where they skipped past living with the consequences and character development, to get to the milestones. The movie skips past a year of Scott under house arrest, and how that changed him if at all, whereas him constantly sneaking out would totally be a comic arc to show how that consequence matters. In the movie, the threat of house arrest is a vague ticking clock to add tension, but it doesn't really affect the plot - and he's near the end of his arrest anyway, so he's closer to the status quo we know him from, versus if they set the movie halfway through his house arrest and we saw him at his most cabin fever'd. Ghost is basically the equivalent of Winter Soldier, as Patrick summarized: we see her Big Moments, and we get a couple scenes/montages (covering her *entire life*) showing the consequences of her condition. But we've known her for ten minutes of screentime before she's cured. We don't get any sense of her long-term suffering, like comics would probably dive into (if only for the sake to fill pages).

[@Carabas72]

@@iPyroNigma At the end of Ant-Man, he realises he should stop being a criminal so he would be worthy of his daughter, to be the man she thought he was. And that's not a coward who says no when Captain America needs help.

[@arthand7672]

@@iPyroNigma to be fair, there have been so many times when I promised myself I wouldn't do something then someone talked me into going against it and I ended up fucked over. And if the person trying to convince me was captain America, I'd go color all over the walls in Germany with him too

[@ThatGuyMontag]

Thinking back, we've had Guardians of the Galaxy II, Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Homecoming, Ragnarok and now Captain Marvel, which have all been far more character focused (6 out of the past 9 films!) and it's notable that, apart from Homecoming, Patrick hasn't really complained about those stories. So maybe the issue is really that in terms of the overarching plot, we've been too focused on the Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War nexus, the explicit crossover movies. If we'd say, had another Captain America focused film then replaced Infinity War with Civil War, we'd have avoided the whole complaint here.

[@ZimMan2]

I honestly feel like Ragnarok stands out in people's minds not just because of specific instances of the color palette, but because of the actual choreography and blocking of the action scenes. I can instantly recall the major beats of most of the fights in that movie despite not all of the shots having the best color grading because the movement is so visually strong. It even avoids the bit where the climax is the least memorable action scene thanks not only to one hell of a needle drop but also the way Watiti manages to make mowing down nameless mooks entertaining again with strong beats and few filler motions.

[@davebenhart4611]

We need a Part 4 that integrates the Disney+ shows.

[@trojankaiju5027]

Agents of Shield season 2 is probably the closest we get to what you describe at the beginning of the video, right when you were saying you hadn't watched AoS. Season 1 ends with Shield dismantled and Hydra's takeover made public, and the entirety of season 2 is the team dealing with that, which culminates in their influence in Age of Ultron. However, the rest of the show seems more focused on the Inhumans and none of the Netflix shows had anything like that, so season 2 is the exception.

[@DRush76]

The affect that Season Two of "Agents of SHIELD" consisted of the old helicarrier and the discovery of the HYDRA base in Sokovia. That's it.

[@theobuniel9643]

Jessica Jones subtly hinted about the Inhumans at the end of Season 1, but I think that was it.

[@Marandahir]

@@theobuniel9643 Jessica Jones also deals heavily with The Raft from Civil War.

[@Marandahir]

@@DRush76 They also mostly dismantled Hydra; just a few cells left going into Age of Ultron and future seasons of AoS. These actually are big effects for a TV show, especially since the movie can't rely on the audiences having watched the show, while the show can rely on the converse.

[@deferencetodusk]

You completely ignored the real reasoning for the flatness: CGI. It is a lot easier to get it done quickly and blend with the real image with the flat color palette, according to everything I've seen about it.

[@marcuscisneros8528]

LUTS....anyways, yeah man but even movies with the volume of CGI on the same level as the MCU got more dynamic color than what Patrick is mentioning, think about the star wars movies he's mentioning....He'll even look at black panther. sequences shot in the daytime still got rich colors even WITH CGI set extensions and other composited elements:)

[@aolson1111]

@@marcuscisneros8528 He noted Black Panther as an exception.

[@jonnemesis11]

Not really, plenty movies with a lot of CGI have great cinematography.

[@radrno7]

I think Marvel doesn't care much about their visuals, they just use digital stuff on everything since it's easier to work with. If they used more practical effects, we wouldn't have so many obvious greenscreens and CGI dolls photoshopped on the screen. I've already given up on Marvel in terms of effects and visuals, cracking up movies like they're comic books. That's not how good movies are made.

[@andybates1231]

@@radrno7 Good job trivializing the work of thousands of artists: "Hey, what should we do with this scene? Let's just use digital stuff on it!" Practical effects are, ironically, impractical. How are you going to make a practical suit of Iron Man armor that expands out and covers Tony Stark? Or Bruce Banner turning into the Hulk? Or Thor's hammer flying around? None of these are easy to do practically, and they would assuredly look worse than the CGI that is already used. Saying, "they should use more practical effects" just shows how little you understand about the difficulty of doing so.

[@frenchy1138]

My one point of contention is with your theory on why the Russos were hired for Infinity War and Endgame. I think it's much simpler: the Russos are really, really good (in the same way Whedon is) at juggling big casts. Where the MCU is let down by visuals, it shines in its characters, and the Russos can jam characters together like few others. I think it's probably because they cut their teeth handling ensemble tv shows. There's no way so many characters should feel as well rounded as they do in Infinity War, but they do and it's what makes the film work for me. It doesn't erase the many other problems you've accurately diagnosed, but it's what keeps the Marvel films exciting for me. And you just need to look at the mess of the DCEU (in particular Suicide Squad) to see what happens when otherwise proficient directors who aren't adept at handling ensemble casts try to pull off the same thing.

[@Danthrax40]

"Nick Fury shows up in a helicarrier as if nothing ever happened." ...as explained in Agents of SHIELD

[@thecrypticvenom]

If you need a show to explain your movie you made a bad movie

[@danielplainview2584]

...glad they're saving the stunning consequential storytelling for television

[@redvitproductions2829]

@@thecrypticvenom (I know I'm late but...) The Theta Protocol (which is the Hellicarrier) was introduced in Agents of SHIELD before Ahe of Ultron came out and since Joss Whedon was working in the show as well as in the movie, he planned this out. Also, Fury said that "some friends" took it out of the garage for him, which are the characters in Agents of shield. A lot of the plot of AOS Season 2 revolves around Coulson getting information to where is Loki's scepter and how to hide the Hellicarrier

[@spencerkaminsky6943]

I mean, to its credit, Infinity War has some really stand out visual moments. How about Thor withstanding a dying star? Or Thanos and Gamora standing on the cliff? Or Thanos warping reality in the Collector's base?

[@NineToFiveGamerUC0079]

Those are stand out to you? People standing on a cliff?

[@nathanremotigue5730]

Or Gamora confronting Thanos in the soul stone

[@jardelelias5625]

@@NineToFiveGamerUC0079 Are you saying people standing on a cliff can't be a stand out moment? I can think of at least one more example. About a lion.

[@VicenteTorresAliasVits]

You mean the scenes that feature the G.O.T.G.? Patrick's point remains.

[@nathanremotigue5730]

Vits Vicente Torres but it’s in a Russo movie, not a Gunn movie. While still colorful and interesting, these scenes in infinity war are aesthetically different from gotg

[@collinsmith7078]

It definitely hurts to be challenged sometimes. Thanks again for you hard work on your videos Patrick! Again, lots for me to think about.

[@kamforyou]

As a person who is working on Swedish film history, that awesome touch came as a lovely surprise and made me beyond happy XD Tack så mycket!!

[@o.t.d_ody_the_dreamer]

It's a movie universe, you really can't expect Marvel to show you everything that happens in between movie. You see the Avnegers fighting Hydra in the beginning of age of Ultron. I assume they've been fighting Hydra for more than just that scene.

[@theessayist25]

That wasn't even the point of the video...Its about how some characters aren't really well developed and how an arc in one movie gets undone in the other

[@andybates1231]

@@theessayist25 It was *A* point in the video, and that's precisely what he's responding to. And YOUR point (that an arc in one movie gets undone in another) is also wrong. Tony Stark's actions in Iron Man lead to him joining the Avengers. The aftermath of that battle leads to his PTSD in Iron Man 3. His concern over how to save the planet leads to building Ultron. His guilt over that leads to Civil War. And his loss of the Avengers leads him to mentoring Peter Parker, and the breakup of the Avengers leads to Infinity War. His character arc continues through all the movies.

[@theessayist25]

@@andybates1231 Peter Parker rejects the suit only for him to still get it in Infinity War, Tony quits being Iron man in Iron Man 3 only for him to put the suit back on , Thor is now a leader only for Thanos to destroy his ship with Asgardians..I like the movies but they are far from perfect

[@butterflyfilms939]

Yea but that's the title, it is limited, but maybe someone could pull it off in the future.

[@andybates1231]

@@theessayist25 Different movies, different situations. Peter didn't reject the suit (actually, he rejected joining the Avengers) forever; he only rejected it for that point in time. If you're stuck in outer space with no oxygen, that's the perfect time to accept a space suit. No, Tony didn't quit being Iron Man in Iron Man 3. The last line of the movie was literally, "I am Iron Man"! He stopped building suit after suit after suit as a way to deal with his PTSD. Instead, he came up with a better idea to protect the world, which led right into Age of Ultron. Yes, Thor's ship is destroyed in Infinity War, which is part of that movie's point about breaking down the characters. The fact that things change from movie to movie is exactly the proof that things in Marvel movies change! Now if the Asgardians went right back to Asgard in the next movie, then THAT would be evidence of things not changing.

[@ethanrichmond3992]

“My despair has pushed beyond the boundaries of 1960’s French cinema.”

[@amithshettigar1940]

I still like Sam Raimi's Spiderman action scenes more than most of the current superhero action scenes

[@alfa01spotivo]

same. Raimi trilogy is still the best Spider-Man on film.

[@Lax_Axl]

The cgi has not aged well for the first one tho.

[@alfa01spotivo]

Lax Axl Doesn't matter. It does the job and it came out in 2002. It was good for its time

[@cosmicmcmoon5773]

I especially love the final battles in Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. In each Peter is exhausted, his suit is shredded, and you get a real sense of vulnerability to him; something you rarely get from modern day superhero smackdowns.

[@amithshettigar1940]

@@cosmicmcmoon5773 true...even the places where action scenes are set are different and brilliant each time, and those action scenes give more sense of what are the things that Spiderman can actually do, Even wen we watch those scenes again and again there is always something we missed last time

[@xsanguine8]

Back when I still watched the show in real time, Agents of SHIELD did a great job of filling the blanks between movies, so at least into Winter Soldier, and then into AoU. If you watch AoS you see how HYDRA was slowly dismantled, until only the guy at the start of Age of Ultron remains as HYDRA leadership.

[@fengusburnt]

I feel like most of your complaints about specific Marvel movies are negated by other Marvel movies. Bad Color Choice? Thor Ragnarok and Guardians fixed that. Poor CGI finale? Black Panther fell into that, but Infinity War was ground breaking in it's effects. Lack of Character Development? Winter Soldier ends with Captain America dropping his shield and, for the first time in his life choosing not to fight. It goes on and on. I feel like the critical issue (like for critics) is calling all Marvel movies one thing, when that's really not the case.

[@theessayist25]

Thor Ragnarok still has issues with color grading....the Iron Man suit doesn't feel as tactile as it used to. He points out that Marvel is good at writing characters but not having lasting consequences

[@fengusburnt]

@@theessayist25 I agree about Iron Man's suit.

[@andybates1231]

@@theessayist25 And I disagree about lasting consequences. You can pick any main character (especially Tony and Cap) and draw a through-line of their character development through all the movies. Everything has lasting consequences.

[@Burkhart4192]

So because you can cherry pick one movie that doesn't have each flaw, that means they're not a problem?

[@fengusburnt]

@@Burkhart4192 It's just like how you can cherry pick one movie with any flaw, and say it's 'the Marvel problem'. My point is they're actually pretty different, and have a variety of strengths and weaknesses.

[@camerongrow6426]

I'm disappointed that Patrick never tried to kick a football. Not a disappointing video overall though.

[@southamvids]

Griffin Newman being a guest in the next episode has me genuinely more excited than the concept of any crossover throughout the Marvel films, I'm so glad to see you two finally actually working together.

[@DeificNines]

Can't believe he made this between Infinity War and Endgame. In hindsight, that's a bonkers place to make a comprehensive video about the MCU.

[@TempoLOOKING]

It got so much worse

[@groot7844]

I agree that the best MCU movies after the Avengers are the Guardians movies. The score, the action, the humor, the characters. Besides the villain everything was great.

[@travisspazz1624]

They're not my favorite, but I understand if someone says Guardians is the best of the mcu. I too adore The Avengers, there's something intangibly pure about it. And I believe vol. 2 is better and more inventive than vol. 1.

[@TellItAnimated]

Sweet Griffy Neeeewms next time, can’t wait!

[@phuctifyno1]

“The Searchers” is what I always thought when Cap stands at the door too.

[@ricardoms2072]

My man Patrick was 4 years ahead of the MCU discussion we're having now

[@WL1264]

He said TV shows were a good idea. He kinda wrong tho

[@blokey8]

I thought the John Wick guys did second unit on most of the Captain America films' action scenes? I just raise that because when films like these are so heavy on having someone else do the action scenes, I feel that ought to be acknowledged and if often means the "named" director(s) get credit they don't necessarily deserve.

[@josephsimmons1232]

God I love Griffin Newman. What a great sport

[@Thessalin]

I'm so with you there. That really was awesome sad.

[@alejoparedes2388]

Ingmar Bergman in a video about the MCU? Shit just got real.

[@destiny2thefarm301]

I feel like you may just be too close to the source material. This whole video reminded me of my wife recently when we atched "Crazy Rich Asians" she said: "this whole plot is missing, this character is missing, this is condensed here, this part never happened etc." And she's 100% right, I'm sure the book is much more fleshed out and doesn't skip things...but these are movies. It's a different medium and you wanting to see a whole movie just on Bucky (which yeah, could have been cool) kind of misses the point and is the same as people who read the books and ask why something that's 2 hours in run-time doesn't fit every character and story-line. Clearly these movies work, more people have seen these movies than ever read any of the comics and they are able to understand the motivations and follow the through storyline of the series. I'm not saying you're wrong for what you want, I'm just saying I do not think that means they are bad or have adapted the source material in a bad way.skipping the in between for these big billion dollar movies makes sense, because that's what they are event films. They have small in between origin films or solo films and big event films. How they adapted them makes sense because they are big pop corn movies and not serialized tv or comics.

[@butterflyfilms939]

Yea but there is still room for improvement, and Bucky could have some of his moments shown in the movies instead of being pushed around.

[@timothygriffith2740]

Desitiny gets it

[@samuelraji8343]

Comics are in every way better and they are made for teenagers with less money and more heart. That's why I read then even though it's a dying industry.

[@JaeWest]

That's bullshit. The MCU controls the ship and they can clearly map out what they want or don't want in theatre. There not limited on what they can put out. They just choose not to. I think the planning is lazy. They leave out a lot and they get a pass.

[@filmtoppings]

You're definitely right here

[@danieluss8729]

FINALLY!!!!! Someone who understands how important humans are in superheroes movies

[@elgranpeyo]

Stop ruining the MCU for me!!! not gonna hear you lalalalala. Joke aside you got valids points that are more worrisome after endgame with new phase of the MCU

[@Gaminating]

After Endgame I’m probably going to be done with the MCU. Or at least I won’t follow it as closely as I have over the last 4 years, now that many storylines are getting wrapped up.

[@EvCMickelodeon]

chaoszieg his David Yates stuff is insulting to the medium.

[@andybates1231]

@@Gaminating The fact that all these storylines are getting wrapped up kind of refutes his arguments about "the illusion of change".

[@dragoons292010]

ehh.. I disagree about Shield going down not having any consequences. If anything, the fallout during Civil War is the direct consequence of Shield not existing. Sheild could have kept them together longer. Also I di recommend you to watch AoS.

[@gramajomd]

Yeah, Patrick really jumped the shark with these two videos

[@theessayist25]

The fallout in Civil War is because of Sokovia in AOU,its okay to admit while this movies are good..they aren't perfect

[@dragoons292010]

@@theessayist25 which again could have handled much better, if Shield didn't fell down. Sokovia city doesn't exist anymore.

[@BionyX1993]

Yep, Fury just comes back in Age of Ultron like nothing happened. So many consequences.

[@mattalex2113]

Shield is one of the worst TV shows I've watched, honestly. It belongs on the CW

[@JosephWiess]

Forget looking at other movies. Look at the real world. Brilliant Golden red sunsets, brilliant yellow sunflowers, Brilliant blue waters, brilliant green grass, etc. Every color jumps out at you. Marvel just hasn't figured that out yet. Iron Man's suit should be red/gold/silver.....Hulk emerald green, etc.

[@andybates1231]

Yeah why can't they make the Hulk emerald green like he is in the real world?!?

[@alfa01spotivo]

Andy Bates Hulk's green looks really washed out

[@charlestaylorco8713]

alfa01spotivo Also look at humans, yes the world around us may be colorful in places but we normally are not as bright as it in terms of skin tone, so it kinda makes sense hulk wouldn’t be bright green

[@hLofA14]

It's about time we gave Thor: The Dark World the recognition it deserves! I'm not trying to convince people it's great, but it's not the worst!

[@colinpee]

Pedantic quibble: Osborn didn't save the world in Secret Invasion, it just looked like he did on the news.

[@ColdBloodedProd]

I think the way I see the interconnectedness and how it works so well is more simple and less asking so many questions about what we didn’t get to see (which are fair questions to ask, I’m just saying that I guess I’m not too mad about not seeing the stuff). Avengers has a big alien attack and gets Hydra to have an excuse to enact their big world domination plan which exposes their existence and gets defeated along with shield by cap and friends. This causes a repercussion to where the avengers have to be the world security for a little bit and Tony’s character arc at its most dangerous where he needs to save the world on his own and crates Ultron. The destruction that Ultron creates is a big reason the sokovia accords happens and Zemo enacts his plan to split the avengers. It works. They get split up and aren’t together when Thanos does his attack. If they were together when the attack occurred, there’s a good chance they would’ve defeated Thanos. Now endgame culminates where they have to come together or “assemble” to avenge the universe. I just like how these events roll into one another.

[@Jordan-zk2wd]

Honestly, it is totally fair to enjoy it on that level, and I actually have very different complaints in some causes than Patrick does here, but here is the thing I think I would say, and I get the feeling is in the spirit of what Patruck is saying, with regards to: "The basic plot interconnectedness is enjoyable to me". Great! I am glad a lot of people are enjoying it. There is something new and fascinating about how objects, characters, worlds, and events carry between films, with seeing how different characters view situations, with seeing how all these different paths eventually converge, and even just the little details. If that is satisfying people, they should keep doing it. If that is interesting, they should keep doing it. But maybe having a certain different sort of interconnectivity play out between films, on top of the sort we already have, would give it a better feeling as an interconnected narrative. One thing I liked for example about the MCU, prior to Infinity War, was that many installments explored, maybe not deeply but at least in some small way, how people relate to governmentsts and how governments respond to terrorism, and the ethics there. Avengers sets up things with the terror attack, then films like Winter Soldier, Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron, and Civil War all touch on aspects of this, and I appreciate them a lot more for this. Infinity War, and the latest phase, mostly threw this connecting theme away. I like the stylistic variety, but wish it took this theme to see conclusion, or thoroughly explored it. What balance of power do we settle on? Is this a debate that can be answered? If not, how do we deal with living with these questions, and protecting safety and freedom without clear answers? If they had kept this theme, your experience of the joy of the interconnectivity wouldn't be hurt probably, but mine would be heightened. That, to me, would make it a narrative proper, one story. Also, asking for more stylism wouldn't hurt your experience likely, but again it would help mine. But I do think they're stepping in the right direction with Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, the Guardians of the Galaxy films, even Captain Marvel and Spiderman Homecoming a bit!

[@aaronroibeard]

Dude this is really good and the biggest problem Marvel / Disney is facing now. They had nothing moving forward after Endgame, killing off Tony and retiring Steve. They’re running into real life problems with humans, contract durations and not being able to tell more stories…..

[@TempoLOOKING]

Ah just bring on sky high 2😂

[@he.smile_]

I disagree with the cinematography of Infinity War, I think the Russos learned from Civil War and introduced so much more color and contrast to their films. That one shot in the Endgame trailer of Tony & Nebula working on something in the ship is one of my favorite shot in the whole MCU already. One of my least favorite cinematography of the MCU is actually the first Avengers, where everything looks too perfectly lit and staged like a TV show.

[@matthewparker9276]

It probably helps that they could tap into the aesthetic of the mcu where space is colourful and earth less so.

[@ItsTheFizz]

So I guess you could say the Russos and Visual FX team are the "House Style" of the MCU?

[@Rocketboy1313]

Man, you listing out the "Dark Reign", the time that Norman Osborn was in charge of the Marvel universe... IT was too short. I loved how it upset the status quo so much, how down and out the heroes were, and how the Dark Avengers were in many ways still trying and succeeding at saving the world from big threats. The way it ended with them attacking Asgard is a low point, a rushed ending to a great era, and it nearly killed my keeping up with comics as they came out... "Fear Itself" killed my interest in keeping up entirely.

[@bloocheez3]

That Thunderbolts run and subsequent Dark Reign era was the last time I gave a crap about comics

[@SergioOsvaldoVA]

'Fear Itself' is awful.

[@b.parker1740]

@@SergioOsvaldoVA Speaking of awful comic events, the name drop of Age of Ultron kind of made me wince a little: both because of how awful that story was and how technically the comic took the name of the Avengers film in production (something Willems had off, but didn't really derail anything any way).

[@michaelcarens-nedelsky2263]

The irony of course is that since the point where Patrick seems to have stopped paying serious attention to comics (Dark Reign), BIG CROSSOVER EVENTS have only accelerated without any time whatsoever to process the consequences of a so-called status quo altering change. Again, I really think at the heart of Patrick’s critique of “why don’t things feel like they used to” is simple: you’re not the same person any more. You grew, you changed, you got old. And superheroes don’t.

[@andybates1231]

@@michaelcarens-nedelsky2263 This does seem central to his complaints: "Why aren't the big comic movies as exciting as comics were when I was a kid?! Comic movies must not be very good." No, it's because you're not a kid. The best thing you can do is tap into that little bit of childhood and try to regain that sense of wonder. But really, you aren't that excited about superhero movies because you have to pay the mortgage and get work done.

[@Him_Downstairs36]

Marvel’s problem is them going cheap and hiring indie directors. Gunn, while an indie director, should be the exception, not the rule.

[@doubledown0411]

Thor's entrance into Wakanda wasn't a splash panel come to life? Are you kidding me??? Cap's emergence from the Shadows belongs in every Oscar night movie magic highlight reel as long as the Oscar's exist. You pick the running sequence in the Airport fight, but not Giant-man? Critique the Marvel films all you want, they deserve. But be fair.

[@getschwifty5537]

Also he didn't understand that Vulture stealing dangerous tech to sell on the black market is bad for the "little people". The movie even showed someone's independently run store, their entire livelihood, blown up by the Chitauri weapons that Toomes smuggled.

[@theessayist25]

none of those scenes really have a visual flair and a splash panel is a continuous actions scene..

[@getschwifty5537]

@@TerenceAwolola-lk8kd so, he has to destroy what, TWO livelihoods for his black market weapons dealings to be a bad thing to you? How many until you start to think that what he's doing is at least a little tiny bit wrong?

[@starkingbiker]

you dont get it.

[@adamsbja]

Agents of Shield is really where the the Hydra thing had its legs, the show twisted when Winter Soldier came out and dealt with the repercussions of that for a long time. But overlap between the show and the movies has been spotty, for example they make a bit of a deal about Coulson devoting a lot of resources offscreen to something and it straining relationships, it turns out to be rebuilding the helicarrier that gets used on Ultron, but you get one shot of the thing right when the movie comes out and they never mention it again. And then for Infinity War they just say "did you hear about what happened in New York" while dealing with their own crisis which is in theory prompted by some guys knowing Thanos is coming but it never actually connects. Winter Soldier and AoS is the closest we've gotten to that comic book format of the big event influencing a serial side story.

[@nmd1120]

Yes, Thor the Dark World is one of their best looking films, I've been saying it for years!

[@benrayboi]

Could you imagine if after Endgame, Disney and Marvel work together by using the streaming service to make singular stories for every character, much like the comics?

[@LeoBladini]

they will do that, they already confirmed some series of some characters, even Loki (before infinity war, i guess?)

[@JaeWest]

It would be better.

[@jimjam7928]

Well, Wandavision just wrapped.

[@MrArdorees]

6:08 Fake nerds? Why cant they just be different nerds. This idea that to be a nerd you hav to conform to this preset doctrine of properties rather than chose which properties you would like to delve into is absurd.

[@timothygriffith2740]

This video loses all credibility around the 6 minute mark with the line, "which fake nerds know as the tesaract". This line alone screams hate for the MCU and those who support it. With this little line, he let's his true belife of what he thinks about the MCU and how he feels about it in comparison to the comics. He is not interested in looking at the movies as the different media that they are, compared to comics, but rather bashing on them for any and everything he can

[@MrArdorees]

@Saturnus so you're saying the idea behind his joke was to act as if he was an elitist asshole? Is this a common joke amongst 'true nerds' because im not that familiar with it? If so then it kind of sounds like exactly what i was talking about in my original comment, to look down on others for not confirming into what they see as being a 'true nerd'.

[@LC-sc3en]

@@timothygriffith2740 I think it is premature to discredit all of his ideas about cinema because you were upset about a lame throwaway and possibly poor taste joke about gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is a really big problem in the nerd community and has been for some time. However, even if he was serious, the comment might reveal some bias but really has no real impact on the rest of his arguments about cinematography, thematic consistency, character development (he even listed movies in which it was done well so it ostensibly is not all about what was different from the comics.)

[@starkingbiker]

it’s a joke you little bitch

[@MegaCatman45]

You can't ignore Agents of Shield and then get angry at Fury showing up with a new helicarrier .-.

[@hermes2002000]

Why not? I watched Agents of Shield, and the only mention of the helicarrier is a 2 minutes cameo by Maria Hill and it is never mentioned again. They are outcasts before that and they remain outcasts after it is revealed that they had a flying fortress. They are portrayed as the best of what Shield has to offer, but then none of them is invited to a seat on their big comeback. If anything, AoS is a further example of his point. Given the lack of contact their worlds have, they might as well be different universes.

[@hiimchrisj]

1) ancillary material should never serve to retroactively explain issues in a movie 2) that doesn't change the point at all. The bottom line remains the same. Nick Fury and SHIELD are just as effective as they were before the events of the winter soldier in fact taking Agents of SHIELD into account actually makes it worse because SHIELD isn't even gone despite Cap making the point to say that it HAD to be after the winter soldier

[@Carabas72]

That Helicarrier would still have been in the movie even if the tv show was never made.

[@Carabas72]

@aydooknow Why on earth would you put yourself through watching five seasons of something you think is meh? I don't watch three episodes of something I feel is meh.

[@jonsnor4313]

Admit you like agents of shield on some level. It has engaging characters, good fight coreograpghy and is fun, and gets even better with time.

[@vinaypatil9395]

After hearing the news about James Gunn being back for Gotg 3 I can't wait for you *Why Guardians of the Galaxy are different* video!!!

[@theessayist25]

He covered it briefly at the end, don't think he'll dedicate more time to it.. Which I was hoping he would

[@cecillbill]

Aquaman was fun and had cool visuals with its action, but every last bit of its storytelling was done better by Marvel (Thor and Black Panther, for starters) and Lucasfilm (Indiana Jones). What truly makes Aquaman special is, it had underwater battles. Mega Sharks vs Sea Dragons, man, lol.

[@CastlesComments]

"We need a superhero" Me, a Blank Check listener: "GRIFFY NEWMS!!" Does this mean we can expect a guest spot on the horizon?

[@newginslab6993]

I wish there where MCU movies like homecoming. I liked the small scaled adventure a lot more then some of the over bloated final battles like in Thor 2 or whatever. My favorite scenes from MCU are stuff like the farm scene from Age of Ultron because we just get to see the normal day to day stuff of the avengers. Maybe hats just me.

[@savage7ecneek437]

Because of the bloated final battle....we have knowledge of the reality stone and know where it is......without that we have no avengers infinity war

[@zingzaber6989]

@@savage7ecneek437 Wrong. They could've done the same thing they did to the soul stone if they wanted. People act like the mere presence of a stone warrants something's existence. If it's bad, it's bad an infinity stone won't change that. (I like a lot about Dark World by the way)

[@DiegoStClair-wz5xj]

Watch Logan

[@newginslab6993]

Diego St. Clair that’s a good movie

[@savage7ecneek437]

@@zingzaber6989 how do you do small and low key with a hero like thor (he still had mjolnir at the time) you need a big bad antagonist for thor the god of thunder.....(or was it hammers)

[@ForgottenCharacter]

That end scene broke my heart. How dare you Patrick H Willems, the most Patrick H Willems of them all? How DARE you?

[@versusmikehistory]

Pat I’d have to disagree about your take on Civil War having no civilian influence. The scene with Tony by the elevator where the mom blames him for her son’s death Sacovia is literally the kickstarter to the conversation Tony has with the rest of the group about accountability for their actions.

[@loudboy317]

The movie also showed Zemo blaming the Avengers for his family's deaths in Sokovia as he was talking to Black Panther. That was his motivation for splitting up the Avengers.

[@theessayist25]

That was a thread from age of ultron not Civil War...the Russos are entirely disinterested in Civilians unless they use it to further a characters arc

[@BostonMBrand]

I mean, Skyfall and the Dark Knight are more visually appealing movies and they're still considered grounded.

[@actualnotanewbie]

5:21 they got engaged in Spider-man: Homecoming

[@jonnemesis11]

Nope, they teased it but it happened off-screen.

[@dustywaynemusic6297]

Newbie

[@ThanosDestroyeryearsago]

@@jonnemesis11 not really

[@jonnemesis11]

@@ThanosDestroyeryearsago Show me the scene when they get engaged then

[@jimjam7928]

@@ThanosDestroyeryearsago No, really.

[@thejunkface]

While I think you have some valid points, I also feel that you are going back on what you said in your video about nitpicking.

[@Lucario2405]

@chaoszieg where exactly is he critizising the MCU's internal logic. I only see him pointing out chances in storytelling being left out or themes being twisted around.

[@dankwarmouse6248]

Well, I'd like to think that most of us really really really disagree with that video, as it stands out in his videography as noticeably antagonistic, shallow, and unfair. I hope that he sees it the same way.

[@spiderjeranimo4992]

@chaoszieg many of us know the (H) stands for hypocrite

[@kaganansothy2376]

@@dankwarmouse6248 I agree, when you approach this with a negative mindset, you're not judging the media objectively. This would have been more solid if he provided counter arguments as to why the mcu is the way that it is and then have us decide whether they're actually flaws or if it's just unfair nitpicking

[@guyr3618]

He didn't make a video about "nitpicking", he made a video about PLOT HOLE nitpicking. And this new video has nothing to do with plot holes, so... He isn't going back on anything.

[@georgier9151]

This video filled the same void in my life that Hbomberguy's Sherlock one did. All of the things that I haven't been able to explain, laid out for me in an easily viewable, aesthetically interesting video essay.

[@Ben10man2]

I think Infinity War is visually interesting, but that's just me. Much better color grading and lighting. Whedon era had the same issues for the most part as well.

[@heiro7572]

I do actually love that the final fight of Black Panther is between an African and African American on an underground railroad. But that's more the thematics than the action I suppose.

[@CustomFitted]

This is a quick way to look fake deep The concept of the Underground Railroad has nothing to do with Black Panther's thematics...it's more a historical reference or Easter egg or some shit than anything

[@myself2noone]

@@CustomFitted Yeah that was a "someone thinks they're real clever moment."

[@theessayist25]

@@CustomFitted like the movie didn't have the theme of slavery

[@greendaleforever]

@@CustomFitted Tumblr. I blame fucking tumblr. Overanalyzing everything to appear special, clever and woke. It's old is what it is.

[@PedroHCouto]

There is a reason why action scenes are set in airports and fields. It's called Man of Steel.

[@nicholsonfile]

But that's a title of the movie. Is there a reason with clauses?

[@MiguelGutierrez-vs9zu]

@@nicholsonfile civilian casualties. Somehow MoS accomplished something that the NY invasion in the 1st Avengers being bigger and looking meanest didn't do: feel that there's an actual threat that the hero couldn't handle. And that there's evil in the universe. Zod went for straight full genocidal Conquest.

[@aolson1111]

It's because they have no imagination.

[@nicholsonfile]

@@MiguelGutierrez-vs9zu Ahh.

[@vendaboi8652]

Miguel Gutierrez. Not disagreeing but it kinda also made Superman look like an asshole. The only action seen I can say I genuinely liked was between him the multiple kryptonians. Fighting them and rescuing people

[@japeth3213]

I mentioned the Russo Brothers comparison to David Yates on Patrick's Twitter and he liked my tweet. Perhaps he had already written the script beforehand but for the sake of my own ego, I'd like to think that I planted that idea in his head :)

[@rodjacksonx]

Comparing the climactic battle in AoU to the airport fight in Civil War... right BEFORE they clash. *smh*

[@theessayist25]

one has visual flair one is dull

[@martinarreola64]

I love your work man! Funny, deep, awesome

[@adityavardhanjain]

I'm really happy their are no angry stupid fanboys and everybody understands the points he's trying to make while putting some lil constructive criticisms only!

[@enman009]

In a reasonable world, that would be the truth.

[@andrewmcmillan229]

Civilians have no idea what's happening in infinity war, there's no reason for mass hysteria or presidential proclamations. From the average person's perspective the aliens showed up in New York, did some minor property damage, kidnapped Tony Stark, and left. The entire "invasion" lasted about 20 minutes.

[@CustomFitted]

You're coming at this from a Watsonian perspective, and not a Doylist perspective, which is where Patrick is coming from He's not arguing that within the logic of the movie civilians should be a factor, he's saying that on a conceptual level, and in the writing room it'd be more ideal for the filmmakers to involve the civilians in the story. It's not that it didn't make sense civilians weren't as prominent in the movie...it's that they should be

[@CustomFitted]

@@RM-cn8pw Well it does because that's quite literally how opinions work In Patrick's opinion, and in mine since I agree with him...civilians should play a bigger factor. U don't think so (of course, because u don't think anything negative about the MCU) and that's ok...but ur not gonna convince anybody to think otherwise And again like I said, I'm not gonna dance with you on here. I'm all too familiar with ur antics, it's time to step away from the keyboard and get a life. U can't possibly be happy or stable mentally as much as u comment on here attempting to defend the MCU's honor

[@CustomFitted]

@@RM-cn8pw Cool story. I couldn't give a healthy fuck what u think So have fun arguing with urself

[@alucard347]

I think that the biggest issue you have here, is not with the MCU itself, but with the concept of adaptation. ANY movie which adapted a serise, be it a novel serise, a comic serise, a TV serise, etc, all had to compromise and cut a lot of content out of it to fit it as a movie, and as a result there are important details left off screen. Even cinematic masterpieces such as The Lord of the Rings, whom are hailed as one of, if not the best cinematic adaptation of any book, falls short of the actual novels and fail to really capture it, leaving too many important details off screen. This is not a valid criticism to the MCU, as this is a problem EVERY film which attempts to adapt a certain serise faces.

[@bravetherainbow]

He is questioning why the MCU movies aren't that good. His answer is that they aren't adapted well. Lord of the Rings is a well adapted movie. It stands on its own, you don't need the book for reference and a lot of people think it isn't inferior to the book just because the book goes into more detail about some things. I'm pretty sure Willems thinks they could have adapted the comics better but they didn't.

[@theessayist25]

The Lord of The Rings deepen character arcs and are better than the books.. The adaptation issue is one of the faults but hey Marvel Is doing shows on Disney plus which will fill in the gaps

[@timothygriffith2740]

You cant compare two different mediums as the same. Movies and books are vastly different in every way shape and form. You need to look at the MCU as a movie series and compare it to other works of the same medium Also the MCU isn't an adaptation of any specific comic or comic series, it's its own thing, thus why major events and characters and teams etc aren't the same. Also also, when adapting a book or a book series, it's usually between 3-7 books (and even those being used as a direct source material the movies can't be made to a T), comics have literal hundreds of editions, some of which spand several years. Even if they tried, they couldn't make comic book movies to the T. So to compare to the actual comics that inspired the MCU you just ignorant

[@valleU]

Thank you for this! As much as MCU might be flawed, it is the best of it's kind. In my opinion, his arguments fall short and he clutches at straws to find some.

[@JaeWest]

@@timothygriffith2740 Don't compare the two? Why make comic book films at all? 😂😂😂