REBEL MOON | A Masterclass in Terrible Writing

[@PentexProductions]

🔵My review of the Director's Cut is here: www.patreon.com/posts/patron-exclusive-114111637 🔵 ORIGINAL PINNED COMMENT: Which one of the stoic, reluctant warriors with a mysterious past was your favourite?

[@jesterssketchbook]

they had names?

[@thomriley1036]

I'm torn between the one who tames Spirit the Hippogriff, the one who fights Lolth with Lightsabers, and the guy from Gladiator.

[@matthemming9105]

Buckbeak, probably.

[@ReinBelmont]

The one with a specific DnD class and backstory, the one that fights by shooting guns. Which one was that?

[@bottlethrower1544]

Remember 300 was a graphic comic that Zac followed pretty scene for scene faithfullly. The comic was faithful to original Greek history written around the time of actual event. Zac added the stupid monsters that added nothing to story. Zac has NEVER demonstrated story writing capabiliry

[@ReinBelmont]

"Traitoro was a... Traitor?" - Rebel Moon part 1: Meet the Spartans

[@ashwinnmyburgh9364]

Deeper dialogue and better character development in this comment than the movie as a whole.

[@hoon_sol]

The Decepticons are bad? *shocked Pikachu face*

[@JM-mh1pp]

You should not judge people based on their names- Sinestro von Doom house of EvilGuy of Maleficarum

[@souio]

When I was 14 in Jr. High, the name of my villain was a murderer named Mr. Kill..... I feel like in a couple years time that will be a legitimate "symbolic" name

[@emmetriley22]

who knew the guy called Horus Heresy would turn out to be the bad guy

[@deanthemachine8879]

It’s shocking how a show like Andor can tell us more about characters in a single non-exposition conversation than Rebel Moon can when you are literally told their backstories. I’m betting there is going to be *some* explanation of some of the more minor problems in the director’s cut, but it won’t fix the major structural or writing issues

[@PentexProductions]

Totally, Andor is such a stark contrast to this in so many ways, but particularly around establishing character through action, not backstory.

[@chazzerous]

Zack Snyder’s “Andor” would be the moment where Kino Loy says “never more than 12,” but instead we get treated to a 10 minute scene of Kino narrating a flashback about how he came to serve a life sentence and what struggles he endured, resolves to escape no matter what in the search for freedom, in the most clumsy written dialogue ever, capped off with “I’m telling you this Cassian so that you know who I am”

[@chimpwimp9407]

I was just thinking this. I was watching the trailer for Rebel Moon and then watched the trailer for Andor to wash the taste out my mouth. I'm almost done with Andor and it really is one of the better Star Wars properties. There's not a whole lot of action so people that shill for Snyder would never like it though.

[@muppetb.lansing8374]

I was so used to disappointment that I was completely gobsmacked that Andor was GOOD. Im sure they will ruin S2 tho

[@baronjutter]

The introduction scene of Syril Karn should be studied in film classes for being such a perfect introduction to a character. We learn absolutely everything about him from this fairly short scene, which also provides a ton of world building in a natural non-exposition way.

[@BaghaShams]

The story came across as a made-for-TV movie. They had Anthony Hopkins read the intro with the most lifeless voice possible--like you could practically see him sitting and staring at the paper he was reading from in a sound booth. And his character just doesn't add anything to the plot. He was just voice cred shoehorned in.

[@PentexProductions]

Hopkins was ADR'ing all the way to the bank, and I don't blame him!

[@sigmacademy]

You mean it doesn't set up how badly the robots are treated in this universe (and a potential ally when they take their fight directly to the actual source of corruption of the universe), the device for introducing us to the reason why the robots don't fight anymore and the fact that he saved that girl from being murdered in that hostage scene adds "nothing to the plot"?

[@MrBashem]

If this movie didn't have expensive props and good actors would be no better than a low grade amateur show.

[@thanktink4328]

They could have used David Atenburoy😂😂😂

[@wjd23104]

Snyder writing a movie about a rebellion was doomed to fail from the beginning. This is because he does not understand why someone would risk their lives for something bigger than themselves. That's probably why Kora says that fighting the Motherland will just end in everyone dying. That's the bit that he actually identifies with. Kora's inability to convince anyone to join her in a satisfying way, is because Snyder can't imagine fighting for something more than himself. In other words he sympathizes with cynical Han Solo and not the Han Solo that returns to the fight at the end of a New Hope.

[@PentexProductions]

Indeed, and doesn't understand why Han coming back at the end is the most important part of his character. Him making that choice is what makes him interesting, and what gives that scene an emotional impact. No one in Rebel Moon has anything like that arc....and it's a pretty basic one!

[@wjd23104]

@@PentexProductions It shocks me to this day, that people watched The Force Awakens and thought Poe Dameron was the Han character. Baffling that people could understand the character so poorly, that they didn't realize it was clearly Finn. Caring enough for other people that it overrides your self interest and fear. Poe is dedicated to the cause from the jump and is almost cartoonishly fearless.

[@cericat]

@@wjd23104 Poe in that respect has more in common with Leia who isn't even outwardly cowed by Tarkin or Vader. Rey doesn't quite fit as Luke despite them trying to recreate his journey for her she's a more optimistic character generally than Luke was.

[@asceofclubs]

I mean he’s the guy who wrote a superman movie where the theme is that superman shouldn’t help anyone if he doesn’t feel like it

[@CoracaoAcidental98]

@@asceofclubs And that the lesson he learned from his parents is that he should not use his powers just because.

[@LuizBarrosPoa]

What The Seven Samurai and Magnificent Seven did right is that the enemy was strong but limited, it was 40 bandits or Calvera and his band of thugs. Here in Rebel Moon they're facing an EMPIRE, an army destroyer of worlds! It's if I, together with my high school classmates, challenged the army of Alexander or Attila and his Huns. Ah, but in Star Wars it was a small group, yes, but the Rebels were the support. Zack Snyder took Kurosawa's heroes and George Lucas's villains and made them kiss. He's NOT a good screenwriter.

[@PentexProductions]

They even make a point of establishing that the ship can destroy entire cities! I'm sure the random farm and five guys with guns will be just fine against that! You're right about Seven Samurai - it makes a point of showing how they can beat the odds with strategy and planning, but it is not an overwhelming opposition.

[@chazzerous]

I think this is what happens when you get caught up in the aesthetics and feelings elicited from both Seven Samurai and a New Hope, then throw them into a blender without any attention or care into how any of it would actually work

[@sigmacademy]

It's implied that there is a potential ally in the robots, and they were trying to recruit the Resistance, which would have an even BETTER reason for joining up since their leader was murdered by the murderous general and his crew, and enough fed up populations who were attacked and subjugated to eventually join the fight as well.

[@LuizBarrosPoa]

@@sigmacademy It is implied too that Samandrai could send an army to support prince Decimus! (Who? What? Exactly!)

[@francesconicoletti2547]

The other thing that Seven Samurai does by keeping it small is create willing suspension of disbelief. Nobody ends up thinking “ doesn’t this village pay taxes to someone ? And wouldn’t that someone be pissed if someone else stole their source of tax revenue ? And don’t people who tax people have violent enforcement mechanisms ?” But in the ZacVerse The Empire exists. They are the people collecting taxes, so why do they need to steal grain as well ? Just pick it up from the local imperial grain warehouse.

[@Rajeenik]

Why would we trust you bounty hunter ? - I am not a bounty hunter, I am an opportunist. - Oh ! My bad. All good then. *later in the movie* What ? Opportunist guy sold our crew of highly wanted individuals to the Imperium ? How unforeseen that was !

[@ashleyjohnson1129]

Snyder seems to think that the best thing people can aspire to is to be objects, defined by their function and their aesthetics, while rejecting their inner life-particularly human connections. He goes out of his way to show that nobody changes, just becomes more or less effective at their function based on how they feel about external events-conflicts always have a right and wrong side, but the only way to defeat the wrong side is by an equal and opposite sacrifice of something right. His worldview is one of balance through annihilation, so he can't handle a hero's journey in his storytelling.

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

So basically if he was a surgeon, he would use a sledgehammer for open heart surgery

[@ledhceb]

Well they really aspire to overcome constipation, in that the only emotion allowed in a Snyder film is different levels of severe constipation.

[@Xehanort10]

@@ledhceb A depressed frown and gritted teeth in anger are the only emotions and expressions Snyder characters have.

[@Xehanort10]

@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access He bashes you over the head with badly done pretentious symbolism that has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

[@n8_b_h]

Very leftist and collectivist.

[@QuantumHistorian]

I love how film-KZbin (or, rather, the small corner of it I follow) has collectively hated on this film. It's strangely wholesome how it's brought everyone together like that.

[@ThatSockmonkey]

The part of film youtube that thinks story is an important part of filmmaking?

[@TaoScribble]

​@@ThatSockmonkey One of the two defenses I've heard for this movie is that it's "eye candy". I'm old; are screen savers not free anymore? Because that's what I'd go to if I just wanted eye candy.

[@ThatSockmonkey]

@@TaoScribble ROFL exactly! Maybe we are old? I don't feel old, but I guess I'm the same age my Grandfather was when I was born, so fuck, maybe I am?

[@QuantumHistorian]

@@TaoScribble I'm curious, what was the other defence?

[@TaoScribble]

@@QuantumHistorian It was "This is just part one!!" I dunno, man. I'm confused as to what happened in the past few years that we need 5+ hours to establish even basic things in a story.

[@sparthyslaysstuff2405]

This movie suffers from a larger problem in modern cinema: Stretching things out way past the goodwill of the viewer. Hours of time passes but it still feels like nothing of significance happens. If you have to make your movie nearly 5 hours of film then the trip better be worth the lengthy journey.

[@Violaphobia]

Do you think this movie would be much better if it was only 2 hours, or would it just be a much briefer show of nothing character?

[@vaiyt]

​@@Violaphobiacut out most of the exposition and leave the action scenes, that should at least be fast paced schlock

[@sparthyslaysstuff2405]

@@Violaphobia a shorter movie means that the viewer doesn't dwell on the flaws of the film. It's still crap but it's fast moving crap that doesn't test the audiences patience.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

@@sparthyslaysstuff2405 Joss Whedon tried that with another one of Zac’s movies and he got blamed for everything that was wrong with it. Shorter bad movie is still a bad movie .

[@Sektor118]

​@@Violaphobia The first Star Wars is 2 hours and 1 minutes long. Predator is 1 hour 47 minutes. Rashomon and Paths of Glory both less than 90 minutes long. Toy Story only 80 minutes, yes its a kids movie but it has more memorable moments in those 80 minutes than Zack Snyder's whole career. Pretty much every great movie you can think of is extremely dance, even long ones like Return of the King don't have a second wasted and convey multiple vantage points, emotions and pieces of information with every shot. Now movies have become extremely fluffly and shallow and padded out like streaming TV shows but Snyder is the absolutely worst at making complete fluff. This movie was the equivalent of watching a man piss and shit and puke all over himself, so the shorter you have to watch that the better. A 2 hour Rebel Moon would be better and a 2 minute Rebel Moon would be 60 times better than that.

[@iamjackspyramidshapedhelmet]

So at which point in the director’s cut do you think the unnecessarily voyeuristic scene of sexual violence against women will take place? Or has Snyder finally stopped shoehorning those into every goddamn movie he makes Edit: 16:30 Never mind it’s right here in the theatrical version! Foolish of me to think he could contain himself lol

[@PentexProductions]

There are two scenes of sexual violence in this version, almost one after the other.

[@valhatan3907]

The sexual violence in this movie is important to show how valiant our hero by defending them

[@Spankee99]

It’s darkly hilarious that this movie was terrified of showing much blood and gore but contains like 2-3 instances of sexual assault

[@Sektor118]

@@valhatan3907 this, Kora seemed sus until I found out she doesn't like rape, now I know she has upstanding protagonist worthy moral character.

[@Sektor118]

@@Spankee99 the best part is how casual sexual assault is in the Snyder Cinematic Universe, like anyone walking down the street may just go hmm I'm gonna turn left, walk 2 blocks past the falafel place and do some raping I decided. Like if Clockwork Orange was filmed by an autismo who took it completely seriously. In the SCU being against rape might be a legitimate rare protagonist trait since he treats rape as saying hello

[@thomriley1036]

If 'Dune' were Shakespeare, and 'Star Wars' was a Punch & Judy show with red and blue sticks, then 'Rebel Moon' is the scribbles that someone left on a bathroom stall.

[@ThatSockmonkey]

In poop.

[@ThatSockmonkey]

Also, I dunno if you noticed, but the plot is actually from the Roger Corman movie Star Crash.

[@thomriley1036]

@@ThatSockmonkey The scribbles are of 14 Cowboys and 7 Samurai kung-fu fighting the Imperial Guard from 40k with Lightsabers.

[@thomriley1036]

@@ThatSockmonkey Also, I think you're thinking of "Battle Beyond the Stars." That's the one with John Boy from 'The Waltons'. "Star Crash" is the Italian 'Star Wars' with Caroline Munro. 'Star Wars' itself is really just 'The Hidden Fortress' set in 'Dune', but for some reason saying that starts a galactic civil war over who owns the Spice, so you didn't hear it from me.

[@denizzagra6423]

I wouldn't say Star Wars is any less good than Dune

[@Zoticus13]

I haven't been able to get the maddening waste of potential that is this movie out of my head since seeing it. Whole characters with great concepts (the pacifist soldier robot, the idealistic stormtrooper) simply being dropped when Snyder's done with them in favour of characters that get NO characterization whatsoever. The bones of something good are there, why the HELL didn't anyone do anything with them? Kora (who's still partially in that warmonger mindset despite leaving) being driven to fight and removing the villager's choice? Great Gunnar and Kai should have been combined into one character: The village's merchant who's willing to do deals with anyone if it means benefiting his home, already on the outs for his city-slicking ways, carrying the guilt of getting the elder killed when he spoke out of turn. would give the arc of him being attracted to Kora but then betraying her to the Motherworld have ACTUAL WEIGHT AND CONSEQUENCES. Likewise combine Titus and Tarak: why do they need to get this one guy who's enslaved on this farm/gladitorial arena? Oh, he was a famous general and warrior, and could help our allies out-plan a vastly superior force. Why hasn't he freed himself? Because he got his soldiers killed and he feels like this is his punishment. Kora helps rekindle his desire to fight and die well. (Hell, make him the general of HER home planet before the motherworld took it over, that way we can have a father/daughter thing where he's fighting for her) Nemisis? A completely non-character as pointed out by how Snyder ONLY talked about her weapons. Have her be an oddly philosophical monster hunter, and give the motherworld forces a big monster that we know the villagers can't beat as a reason for seeking her out. Kora can't convince her to join a path of revenge so Gunner/Kai needs to do it, talking about the defence of home, which we can hint that she lost as it also relates to the whole spider-mother fight we see her engage in. The bloodaxes shouldn't be rebels, they should be *bandits*, stealing from anyone to provide for themselves. They're the inverted mirror of Kora and Gunnar, one violent and pragmatic while the other's idealistic and diplomatic (as opposed to K/G's idealistic violence and pragmatic diplomacy). They've been enemies of the motherworld for some time, but it requires the whole party to convince them to actually take a stand. UUUUGH, It's ALL THERE..... it's like Zack was viewing the ideas and themes of his own movie through a frosted pane of glass. Plato's allegory of the cave level movie writing.

[@PentexProductions]

Totally agree. This is why I made this video - usually if I see a movie I don't like I just move on with my life but I'm so frustrated that this had so much going for it, and was such a rare opportunity to make something new and exciting and it was just totally wasted.

[@KissMyConverseFool]

the robot was the one character I ABSOLUTELY wanted to know more about. An AI rebellion that was not an "order 64" type uprising but rather an outbreak of pacifism in military hardware was the most original idea in rebel moon by a country mile.

[@Violaphobia]

Ideas are cheap. Development is what takes talent

[@alsmith9853]

To the OP: these are great ideas. Especially the combining Gunnar and Kai, because Kai's betrayal came as no shock and had zero emotional weight, where it should have been a big moment

[@jakekeltoncrafts]

@Zoticus13 I wholeheartedly agree with all your ideas, and they are just scratching the surface of the depth this movie could have had. When yourube commenters can bring more depth to characters than the passion project of a director, it's honestly sad. I love the idea that Kai's slavemastee has no idea he is some incredible warrior, and that when he is convinced to join the fight and that his time of self inflicted punishment is over (one year for every life lost by my choices, a lifetime of lifetimes) he just... snaps the chains and walks away. Like, at any time he could have escaped or killed his slavemaster. Doubles down on that not only is he a legend, but his punishment was self inflicted. This incompetence of writing in films these days just gives me endless headaches. Part of why I am writing my own book.

[@Coomslayer9000]

Only Zack Snyder would decide to make a slow mo shot and then slow mo the slow mo shot

[@snakedogman]

"Yo dawg, we heard you like slow mo so we put slow mo in your slow mo so you can slow mo while you slow mo!"

[@AdrianDoll]

24:44 You know your screenplay has some serious problems when PHANTOM MENACE is brought up as an example of better writing (I love the prequels from the bottom of my heart though)

[@PentexProductions]

I was going to make that exact point, but figured I'd just leave it as subtext. Unlike Snyder's Rebel Moon script.

[@heidigreen8468]

[@cericat]

@@PentexProductionsObjectivists seem resistant to analysing or writing subtext.

[@arthas640]

the prequels get too much hate. They're not bad movies when you look at them as their own franchise but people act like they're terrible because they're not as good as people remember the original trilogy to be but they dont acknowledge that even the original trilogy had it's own flaws that are forgotten.

[@Chaogardenx]

Imagine being on the conceptual art team and being asked to create a pen corral to keep a very dangerous flying creature that cannot be contained. Then they tell you that the pen should not be covered for some reason, oh, and there are no devices to prevent it from flying... so they are seriously going to have people holding ropes all day?

[@lonjohnson5161]

I am writing a script with an ensemble cast and I'm disappointed with how lifeless some of the scenes are. This video helped me focus and now I can't wait to get to better rewriting.

[@PentexProductions]

If you haven't already, check out Seven Samurai, A Bug's Life, and Magnificent Seven as examples of how to make this movie properly.

[@yamine_Q_ray]

@@PentexProductions lmao at synder losing to a bug's life at telling an ensemble movie

[@Whaddayamean13]

Snyder’s directing style is not light on its feet at all. It’s always posturing and shoving it’s muscles (sometimes literally) in your face. It leaves very little for the audience to find themselves in the story or people in the story.

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

It might not be your cup of tea (heh), but Downton Abbey is one of the best examples of good ensemble writing out there. Especially in the downstairs scenes, there are times when 3 or 4 storylines are going on at the same time, but nothing ever slows down or or is too hard to follow. Considering there's at least 20 main characters, it's pretty impressive.

[@Tuaron]

@@PentexProductionsFollowing in that line, I'd even tout the Samurai 7 anime, which is just a futuristic anime version of Seven Samurai. Then again, it's also a series (at least 1 season), so maybe it's not the best choice.

[@jimjam7928]

48:56 I've always thought this about Zach Snyder in general; the only thing that separates him from a director like Michael Bay is that Bay at least knows he's making schlock.

[@PentexProductions]

Totally - just have fun and don't try to take it so seriously. Recognise it for what it is.

[@Xehanort10]

Yep Snyder's Bay without the self awareness.

[@r3dr4te963]

Aye, and it also seems Bay were tired making Transformer movies and aware about it. Not even trying in the sequels

[@KamikazeChinaman]

He´s too pretentious for his own good.

[@Xehanort10]

@@KamikazeChinaman Some of his fans have deluded themselves that he's some deep, brilliant filmmaking genius. To hear it from them you'd think the concept of filmmaking didn't exist until he became one.

[@matthemming9105]

This is the video essay I needed to put voice to all my problems with Rebel Moon. Thank you for this. Spot on analysis. "I'm only telling you this so you know who I am" is a meta-level self-own about the absence of character development.

[@QuantumHistorian]

It's up there with "Somehow, Palpatine returned" as lines that could only have been penned by a writer taking an easy shot at their own story.

[@lunaangeleclipse9745]

When I watched Rebel Moon I was so confused why I didn't really love any of the characters. I'm a very easy person to please, so I was surprised that I couldn't find a character to latch on to. I was starting to like/be interested in the robot and the young enemy soldier with morals from the 1st act, but they both disappeared after the 1st main fight scene, unfortunately.

[@tolstucha2233]

my mom watched the entire movie and when the credits rolled i came into the room and asked her if she liked it and what it was about. she literally answered: "no and... i already forgot".

[@anchorlightforge]

It reminds me exactly of Rogue One. So many people telling me "hey, Jyn was so cool, Andor was cool..." and I just get confused because I couldn't even remember the names of the characters by the end of the movie. They all had plenty of interesting things going on but there was no cast chemistry and nothing even memorable about the bunch, so by the end it was just Not Kyle Katarn And/Or Jan Ors and a whole ensemble of people I knew nothing about. Not to mention, by having massive weapons of destruction but allowing the protagonists to unconvincingly escape and/or defeat said weapons, it trivializes them and reduces their overall impact in the connected stories to come.

[@tommylakindasorta3068]

If I were Sophia Boutella, I would focus on indie films for a while, or get a Netflix show. Big-budget Hollywood has really screwed her over with terrible projects. Remember The Mummy with Tom Cruise?

[@merphul]

Story and character development aren't "adult content". R rated stuff is sex, violence and swearing.. Going PG-13 doesn't excuse the story being hollow.

[@EzaleaGraves]

Source: Every Pixar movie

[@merphul]

@@EzaleaGraves a literal plastic potato made me feel more things than an entire Snyder "ensemble".

[@FlyingFocs]

Also, Avatar: the Last Airbender. The number of video essays (so much, one could probably not even watch the show) praising the weight and maturity of a Y7 rated tv show is telling.

[@ArtfulDodger566]

Rebel Moon is Snyders ego crashing in a trainwreck

[@michaelhowell2326]

Carrying fertilizer, fuel, cat litter, dynamite, acid, nitro glycogen and sewage falling into an erupting volcano on an island with a nuclear power plant.

[@PentexProductions]

But very, very slowly, and with Anthony Hopkins telling you all about the train's backstory in a voiceover.

[@RusPitman]

...again.

[@JIMT412]

​@@PentexProductionsNot to dizz Mister Hopkins, but couldn't they get Morgan Freeman for the narration?

[@bottlethrower1544]

​@@PentexProductionsZac has NEVER demonstrated ANY story writing capability Why would you expect he could. A big budget cant fix that

[@MartyMcK]

Stoicism isn’t about being emotionless it’s about not being carried away by your emotions.

[@PentexProductions]

Snyder: *taps head "Can't be carried away by your emotions if you don't have any."

[@drewlovelyhell4892]

I think that it would more acurately be described as *not showing* your emotions.

[@Reinshark]

Though derived from the philosophy from antiquity, the adjective "stoic" does not refer exclusively to that philosophy anymore. It just refers to someone who doesn't show their emotions.

[@MartyMcK]

@@Reinshark It does actually. Anything else is used incorrectly. I can assure you Stoicism is I e and well Ryan Holiday, Donald Robertson and Massimo Pegilicci etc. It is also the basis for various forms of modern therapy such as CBT. Your post is very, very poorly informed.

[@Reinshark]

@@MartyMcK Language evolves. Words sometimes have different meanings in different contexts. Open a dictionary.

[@ToMPaSHKoV]

This 'director's cut' grift is so transparent, I'm thrilled to report that I only watched the first two thirds of a pirated version of this turd of a movie, meaning I didn't actually contribute any money and avoided subjecting myself to any more wasted time than necessary.

[@JasonHauser125]

I did not contribute money either, and I still had to fast forward through bullshit. I have spent more time watching breakdown reviews than watching the actual terrible movie. Snyder has talent, he does. I couldn't make a movie at all, but I could goddamn write a better script than he and his bros did.

[@cadenadelreino1442]

Still pretty sure this wasn’t Zack‘s decision though…That sounds like some Netflix exes idea because Zack Snyder DCs are a „thing“.

[@johnernest5843]

Ah yes one of the best insults being "I watched this shit for free and I still want my money back"

[@gabrielpmo]

I have Netflix and still thought about watching the pirated version, just so I wouldn't give them a view. But after the movie came out and I saw the garbage this was, I didn't feel like spending my time with it.

[@gabrielpmo]

​@@cadenadelreino1442even worse, because it's not a director's cut then.

[@mattparsons2045]

I would have loved if Charlie Hunnan's character had been pulling a 5D chess move and just betrayed them to get the Admiral vulnerable. You could even have him point out that fighting it out in a village was a terrible idea and baiting out the leader was the best plan. As the movie stands he legitimately betrays them yet that betrayal does more to help them than than the efforts of any of the others.

[@voldlifilm]

That sounds like exactly the kind of thing a master strategist would have planned out. Such a shame they didn't have a legendary general or something on the team at that point.

[@Emanon...]

Znyder: "Tell, don't show. And if you show, do it in a flashback"

[@dr_volberg]

I just thought of Arya's and The Hound's adventures in Game of Thrones. That world has tons of lore, but that adventure works even without it. In this movie the implication of awesome legendary lore was all it had going for it.

[@PentexProductions]

Exactly, that's why I used the example of Boromir towards the end. Are your characters and story interesting even without all the lore? In Rebel Moon, they are nothing without it (and nothing with it!)

[@francesconicoletti2547]

Reminds me of the second Tron movie, Disney was obviously trying to launch a franchise so instead of telling the interesting story of rise of sentient AI that was relegated to a backstory and the movie became a remake of the original with better CG. Interesting to nerds but nobody else. They should have made the movie about the interesting stuff they were hanging on to.

[@macarahneil2154]

If Anthony Botkins had been ordered by the new regime never to fight, that would be a different story. A more compelling motive for picking up the gun, to protect the water girl. That scene contradicts what we were told about robots laying down arms.

[@sigmacademy]

No, it actually doesn't. The water girl represents the feeling of hope the robots had for a better tomorrow, and made the on-site robot feel something again, so it sees the water girl as a possible extension of the princess they were sworn to protect. It's ALL there, for anyone willing to take a closer look.

[@juliendeclercq9273]

This movie feels a lot like the storyboard of a TV show. Every time we get an exposition dump it should really be an episode in an 8 episode mini series...

[@SaintJoi]

This cast was so great (mostly), it kills me how bad this was. Charlie Hunnam legit seemed to be having a great time, and Djimon Housou has never phoned a role in, EVER. But they just have absolutely nothing to work with.

[@PentexProductions]

Such a waste - they are both great actors. Djimon honestly says about 10-15 sentences in the entire movie.

[@jacksondavies3595]

From what I’ve seen, Charlie Hunam does a crap Irish accent.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

"If we fight we're all going to die." "I'm going to force you to have to fight." "We can only win if we have an army." "We can't find an army but we're going to fight anyway." This is the attitude of someone who knows they're the main character in a movie and knows the script has them winning.

[@QuestionMan]

"What? Guns? That's your power, you shoot guns? There's no theme at all here."

[@sigmacademy]

Firefly: I'm sorry? :P

[@slurk1]

At least make it a gold chain. And that's off the top of my head.

[@exoterric]

People keep operating under the premise "Zack Snyder knows how to shoot action, just look at 300". But just remember Larry Fong was the DOP for 300 and Zack Snyder himself is DOP for this hot mess. I don't think he does know how to shoot action any better than how to develop characters. I think he is a hype-man who failed up in cinema because the industry is filled with low-key, world-class, hard-working under-recognized people who don't find masturbatory joy in working harder on their public image than their actual product.

[@jasonjacksn]

Also 300 was 17 yeara ago and I dunny think he's made a good movie since

[@swagromancer]

He doesn't know how to shoot action. He _does_ know how to compose a still image. That's why he overuses slow-mo so much. He should have become a storyboarder instead of a director.

[@OldManPaxusYT]

ABSOLUTELY!

[@mistermastermind528]

I mean the director is still the one who composes the scene (action or not). The DOP executes the director's "creative" decisions through camera shots and angles, and mostly lighting-keeping in mind that these are still under the director's creative control. I do stand by the idea that Zack can do good action scenes. But writing a deep thoughtful movie? Nah. He and JJ Abrams are of the same mold in the filmmaking landscape. They think they're deep but their films show them who they really are.

[@mimovres9300]

12:18 - Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise is a classic and probably the best example of "tell, don´t show" in cinema. Rebel moon comparison is undeserved, since former is captivating dialogue that makes your imagination run wild, while also developing the characters and a plot. Latter is just an exposision dump (Also doesn´t help its at the beginning of the movie.)

[@shockreaper2964]

yes

[@PentexProductions]

Totally agree - I'm actually a big prequel defender. I was just using the meme for a cheap shot at Rebel Moon. Rebel Moon would have been WAY better if any of the characters were having half as much fun as Palpy is in Episode III.

[@ddd_martin59]

I would actually argue that the Darth Plagueis scene is a "show don't tell". Since what we're being told doesn't matter. Is Plagueis even real? doesn't matter. Can you really save people from death? doesn't matter. What matters is that Palpy is dangling this possibility in front of Anakin and seducing him to the dark side. That's what we need to see. And that's what we're shown: Anakin's desperation and Palpatine's insidiousness - if you'll pardon the pun.

[@mimovres9300]

@@ddd_martin59 from that point of view yes. The show dont tell rule is overall a useful aid, but it doesn’t always work. There are instances in the storytelling where it is better to make the viewer engage in the story throught their imagination. Reason why i think it is an example of “tell dont show” is because any type of visual representation of the story would distract and negate the important part: emotions and dynamics of sheev and anakin. Palpatine’s reaction to the story he told anakin is more important and engaging that any adaption of the said event could be (while also subtly giving away to the audience that he was the said pupil)

[@anchorlightforge]

The prequels get dodgy but I don't think there's any other trilogy that comes to mind when I think about how much great subtext and lore can save a film from its flaws. Even Episode 2... not particularly great, but its story beats are so strong in the context of the trilogy that it can still hold its own and the world it paints is so incredible that I still love it. Compared to something like the Disney properties where Nowhere, Tatooine and Mos Eisley are the subject of eight hundred new adventures and events, it makes the universe feel small and the story thin and repetitive. To me the balance of show, don't tell is really more about how much you want the audience to believe something is true. To have a character state their own life facts is just words-- a gambler tells you that he never loses. To have someone else talk about them means they need to remind people of such a fact, and we have no reason to believe it-- the guard at the door reminds you Stalin is a perfect leader. To have someone _act_ subconsciously tells you through subtext to believe it-- the stageplay shows poison poured into a victim's ear, and the king stands up in horror feeling exposed for what he's done in private. It's all about how much you want to confirm or deny the authenticity of something, and if you pick the wrong presentation it feels artificial as if a screenwriter's hand has to move things along, since something that could be doubted has to be taken as 100% fact and no characters seem to think that's an issue.

[@kannbrown65]

Watching Snyder's portfolio, I used to think Snyder simply knew his strengths wasn't in writing not only movies, but even scenes, in which the motivations included things like caring about what you're doing, or having any hope in succeeding. Now, I think that idea doesn't even occur to him as an option. Maybe he is contemptuous of any drive other than 'I would have abandoned you all except I guess I have to do this now, even though we'll probably fail'... maybe he thinks hope is cheesy, or easy, or unrealistic. Because we all know all the important movements have always succeeded only when the main people involved were filled with despair and grim fatalism, sure of their inevitable failure... It's not even depressing at this point, there's such a lack of emotional stakes, it has become boring.

[@zukacs]

Just finished watching the video. It's crazy how I could never write down what's wrong with the movie like you did, I did not like it even more. I have no idea how can any directors cut save this

[@zukacs]

My girlfriend said it best after I was hyping this movie for months. It has script of cheap sci-fi TV show

[@mgalusic]

My favorite thing about "Rebel Moon" is Synder went to Disney with the script and even they said "nah". So he basically just "search/replaced" all the names and just assumed it would be enough.

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

Snyder sounds like a 5 year old talking about his toy soldiers

[@terranman4702]

Snyder needs a script doctor, or script emergency room. Jesus, he just threw every shit at the wall he ever had.

[@arthas640]

Some creators start relying on their tried and true method and end up just repeating themselves and this is becoming a stereotype for him. It's like he went with the first draft of every character and scene, sort of reminds me of like how M Night Shamallamadingdong has a twist ending toward the end of every story he writes or like how Gabe Newell can never make a conclusion to anything.

[@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780]

Like me, personally, I loved this movie. I think my favorite part was when the movie explicitly went out of its way to show me that Admiral Noble got all his teeth smacked out of his mouth only for him to have it back at the very next scene after being shocked by some electricity. Zack Snyder saved me hundreds of dollars on yearly dental care bills. Nowadays I just smash my head into the kitchen sink, then stick a fork into the plug and grow a new set of pearly whites whenever I need it

[@zukacs]

I'm just curious if someone will make "speed up slow motions" cut of this movie, how much shorter will it be?

[@PentexProductions]

If I wasn't so sick of looking at clips of this movie then I would be tempted to make it and see!

[@davidvonallmen19]

At 8:16 you forgot to include an image from A Bug's Life. I have to admit, it did not occur to me that The Road Warrior was basically the same story, probably because it's just one guy they hire to help them not seven and it's told from the perspective of that guy, not the perspective of the villager who needs to go round up a group of protectors.

[@PentexProductions]

I was actually going to use a clip of A Bug's Life there but chose Mad Max because between the Seven Samurai and Magnificent Seven I already had two versions of that story, so wanted to broaden it out a little bit to show other examples of 'underdogs take on a big bad guy' without necessarily being the exact same plot of hiring a bunch of warriors (hence Dirty Dozen too). But yeah, A Bug's Life is a much better Seven Samurai remake than this.

[@davidvonallmen19]

@@PentexProductions I also have to admit, it was my fourth time watching A Bug's Life before I realized it was the Seven Samurai.

[@anchorlightforge]

@@PentexProductions "A Bug's Life is a much better Seven Samurai remake" is the last sentence I expected to read today but here we are, and I hate it only because I can't disagree.

[@alexanderlane6115]

​@@anchorlightforge it puts more of an original spin on the story than Rebel Moon, with the warriors not actually being warriors

[@ShadowProject01]

The whole movie felt like that part of the videogame where you assemble your party…but forgot to do the part after collecting your party where the characters actually interact with one another in any way🤦🏾‍♂️ The world building was atrocious too. We have no time or depth to the worlds we visit. We visit a moon or planet for all of 3 mins before the party member agrees to follow a lady they just met 20 secs ago to start a rebellion. Example: does anyone know *why* the lightsaber lady joined the crew? We know she lost her children, did the space Natsi do it? Why would she even follow our protagonist?

[@PentexProductions]

It's so poorly written she never actually agrees to join them explicitly, she just turns up in the next scene. If anything, the way her scene ends implies that she WOULDN'T want to join them because she's moved beyond wanting revenge.

[@alexmartin3143]

We got 2 Darios in this. That was my high point…

[@PentexProductions]

I think I'd rather just re-watch seasons 1-4 of Game of Thrones.

[@kel-A-3414]

Having a Robot narrate a backstory that is supposed to be emotional...that is peak directorial silliness and storytelling ineptness. The robot cannot convey the emotions some wise old man would have for example. So yeah, this movie was horrendous to say the least. Only good thing they did that I liked was keeping that villain alive lmao

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

It could work if the robot was established as an emotion possessing sentient being with its own thoughts and feelings.

[@erikriggiola6780]

The "moral" soldier disappearing was annoying. He may have been set up for a distinct role in the sequel but a bit of subtext or foreshadowing would of been nice. I don't think I missed any. I don't think any was present. We'll see.

[@PentexProductions]

Of all the people to go with Kora on her mission, he was the one who made the most sense. But they never even explain why he isn't going - he just vanishes so that the plot can happen.

[@TheNightrider88]

And of course bad guys would wear uniform vaguely resembling something from... say WW1-era German Empire. So original, so creative.

[@ellentheeducator]

Over and over this movie - I kept sitting up and going "Good Movie Alert!" We get an absolutely sick establishing shot of this cool part of the setting, or a fascinating character idea, or an awesome creature, and I'm so ready for it to become interesting... And then someone other than Anthony Hopkins opens their mouth and I remember that this is not a good movie.

[@ellentheeducator]

Also, I think a lot of the weaknesses of this movie came from Snyder's beliefs. He's going to have an easier and more comfortable and more fun time writing the fascists than the revolutionaries, and it shows in the dialogue. Ed Skrein gets the sickest lines and shots and feels like a badass. But a soldier who's broken by the jingoistic militarism they served? A people's warrior who has actual sympathy for their enemies? He cannot easily write for these people because he fundamentally can't understand them.

[@erikriggiola6780]

The scene of Titus' recruitment was pathetic. "Hey drunk guy, want to fight a hopeless battle?" "Fuck Off" "What about for revenge my shallow and guiless tactical genius" "Oh...sure" Fuckin' Hell, why did Hounsou accept this frikkin' role.

[@PentexProductions]

He is so wasted in this - honestly who casts Djimon and gives him like seven sentences to say in the whole movie?

[@sigmacademy]

Actually, the drunk character represented the General losing ALL his men in a battle we still have to see, and it's also heavily implied that the General and the Empire had a falling out of some sort as well. A character who has lost all hope and reason to live being drunk is a common setup for a call to action to bring that character back to the land of the living and give him or her a reason to live and fight again as part of a redemption arc. I've NEVER heard someone complaining about this kind of thing before?

[@Ezekiel_Allium]

@@sigmacademy Maybe the issue is that the call to action is literally _just_ someone approaching him and going "revenge?" immediately after a scene about 'revenge maybe not good?'

[@Tuaron]

Djimon Hounsou has such horrible luck with blockbusters, in that he's in a bunch but often tiny, forgettable roles (and often bad pay, evidently). Hopefully he at least got paid well.

[@Ale-dd3ek]

After all the slow motion porn in Zack movies I wonder if the warehouse scene in Batman vs Superman was shot when Zack wasn't on set

[@chazzerous]

You’re actually correct - 2nd unit director Damon Caro blocked out and shot that scene

[@Tuaron]

@@chazzerousDid not know that, cool to hear, makes a lot of sense. Hope he gets more work, even if it's just 2nd unit (a very important role) for good movies.

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@Tuarontrue I hated Batman vs Superman but that fight was probably One of the best Batman Battle Cool, fast and no waste of time

[@relwaretep]

I got 40 minutes into it, then realised I had gone outside to have a smoke and could not be bothered to skip back when I went back in (which turned out to be anither 20 minutes later). Nothing. Dead inside.

[@PentexProductions]

You probably missed a super interesting and not at all boring chunk of exposition and backstory.

[@relwaretep]

@@PentexProductions Probably. Can't imagine why Disney passed on it.

[@Interrobang2626]

I also love the idea that you see a highly evolved piece of technology fly by as someone on the ground is in a forge hammering metal like a medievel blacksmith. Really, blades need to be made like this when you have interstellar travel?

[@PentexProductions]

And paying for things with physical coins. As Dr McCoy said in The Voyage Home: "they're still using money?!?"

[@erikriggiola6780]

And then we get the story of Kora/Gamora being adopted by Thanos/Belisarius. Is there an original story beat anywhere?

[@Maxer4000]

Do you know why 300 was such a hit back then? Because it was written by Frank Miller, a legend in the comic industry. Zach only ripped out the pages to put in his movie adaptation, along with the lines, he was lucky. Man has no writing talent, as proven in Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, his cut in JL and so on. What pisses me off is that there are people just keep letting him getting away with this kind of slop.

[@arthas640]

he's half decent at filming action scenes but even then he needs someone to reign him in or he'll just repeat the same tropes over and over. I think he gets too much credit though since even his best action scenes in 300 were just pretty much copied wholesale from the comics and he's been repeating the same slo-mo scenes in every movie ever since.

[@Wref]

Zach Snyder over here using slow motion like he's JJ Abrams with lens flare.

[@fragalot]

i saw a lot of elements stolen from other movies. They had Sloth from the Goonies. A "Hippogryph" flying creature from Harry Potter that you had to bow down to gain it's respect. And do much more that reminded me of Star Wars, Star Trek, and Firefly/Serenity.

[@erikriggiola6780]

If they brought the Griffin with them then that might have been really cool. I really wanted the Griffin in the group. I need SOMEBODY to root for. I need to care for one character's safety at least. But no...of course not.

[@PentexProductions]

$10 says it crops up in part 2 - even though Tarak just left it in the hands of the slavers who no doubt abused the hell out of it.

[@kylekopsi7039]

“He doesn’t have a shirt.” Has got to be the weirdest personality trait that keeps popping up somehow. I can’t tell if it’s worse in video games like Saints Row or in movies like this, but are there genuinely people who make not wearing a shirt their entire personality?

[@arthas640]

I've met some people like that in real life. They have no personality to speak of but a half decent body so they try to show it off (even if they have nothing to really show off) so they try to use their body in place of a personality. Some women are the same way and they substitute their brains with their boobs.

[@thomaslake7978]

I think this movie can be comfortably described as "paint-by-numbers." Snyder assembled all the pieces that he understood must be present in a good team-up movie and just kinda jammed them together; unfortunately he forgot that there must be a compelling narrative as connective tissue between all those pieces.

[@QueenAleenaFan]

"It's only part one." And that's not much of a defense. In fact, it raises expectations. A standalone only has to carry itself. A part one has to carry every other part.

[@GiggaGMikeE]

Snyder still hasn't learned that the Avengers works as a movie because we have multiple movies fleshing out the characters and world previously. He keeps trying to shortcut his way to that in a single movie. Did that in DCEU and is doing that now. It's insufferable.

[@notachannel447]

I hate that the farmers communite has no tecnology, but have automatic doors

[@ori9830]

I think a key point to contextualise why Snyder makes these sorts of movies is that, his dream project is The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand so he really doesn't have a grasp on how to create consistent throughlines because he can't put himself in someone else's shoes and so he can only write one character. Snyder truly wants to be in the same space as great modern directors like Denis Villeneuve, or promising directors like Dan Trachtenberg, because these sorts of directors clearly *understand* stories, they're not painting by numbers.

[@robertb7293]

I was legit rooting for the brave turret gunner in Darius's fight scene with him. He gets just about as much characterisation as any of the heroes. And actually, you know, does something.

[@seasidescott]

It made Vin Diesel _Riddick_ movies look superbly crafted.

[@whynotanyting]

It's movies like these (and the critiques about them) that make me feel confident I can write a movie script, and I hate writing.

[@ms-abominable]

i had to pause the video to say this, but after you said the movie was generic, the farmer leader guy was like "as your leader i have to tell you blah blah..." i was like "well he's probably gonna be killed by the visiting bad guys then" i just got to the part where he's killed by the visiting bad guys and had to pause to laugh my ass off 🤣 i didn't know anything about this movie, hadn't even seen the trailer

[@PentexProductions]

The entire movie is like that.

[@advert1489]

Are we just going to ignore the fact that the general-turned-gladiator, Titus, is played by Djimon Hounsou, who acted as a Roman gladiator in the movie Gladiator - A film about a general-turned-gladiator called Maximus. This movie copies so much, it might as well be 40k.

[@MrBashem]

Listening him describe his own characters had me rolling. Seems like he used a character generator to make him some characters.

[@Nr4747]

You forgot to mention that the Space Nazis only murdered the village leader after Gunnar decided to essentially rat the village leader out as a liar right after said leader told the Space Nazis that they wouldn't mind sharing their food with them but - ostensibly - didn't have enough to share. We have absolutely no confirmation that the Space Nazis would have actually harmed any villagers without that inciting incident (aka Gunnar being an idiot). Yes, outside (movie-watcher) logic dictates that they're the baddies and would probably do bad things to the villagers regardless, but in-universe logic makes it very unlikely that the Space Nazis would slaughter complying villagers just because baddies have to constantly do bad things.

[@datadribble]

I read someone that wrote "you can't say he's a bad writer, because he hasn't had many opportunities to write". Except: 300 (fully adapted), 300+, Rebel Moon and Army of the Dead. He's a bad writer.

[@matttriano]

He wrote 3 films. Not poems or short stories, feature films that cost hundreds of MILLIONS and employ hundreds if not thousands of people. Imagine having the misplaced confidence to make everyone spend the coin and dance your dance...and the final product is SUCKER PUNCH, ARMY OF THE DEAD and REBEL MOON. Imagine. Fucking wild.

[@alexanderlane6115]

Inexperience is also an explanation of why someone is bad, not an excuse that they aren't. Sure, he might get better but in the moment he's still a bad writer

[@liampezzano]

that Boromir comparison 45:25 really does just demonstrate all of these writing problems in one sentence.

[@frostaegis8653]

mmmmmh... yeah... I'm getting some ick vibes from the fact that the baddies are "cool" and "competent", "strong" space nazis harassing a norse village in space and one of the only black dudes in the movie is basically naked in tribal gear...

[@d.j.mulcahy1657]

An issue I noticed recently was the lack of any interpersonal conflict. The team never seems to disagree and are always acting the exact same way. Imagine if we got not just conflicts between Kora and Gunner (action vs neutrality), but also Nemesis against Titus, the latter of whom only really gets involved cause he wants revenge while the former discourages revenge. There are so many ways you could flesh out these characters and their roles in the world, but that potential is wasted at the alter of badly choreographed fight scenes. Flesh out the idea of Kora promising them different things so it comes across less as inconsistent writing and more like her trying to sway them to her cause. When they find out, they can come to blows.

[@pegah_di]

Rebel Moon is what happens when an excitable man-child gets in charge of making a serious movie. And people say we should at least give him credit for being so excited and passionate about his project. Like a four year old who's tried doodling for the first time.

[@REEbott86]

I think that Kora taking away the villagers choice in fighting was intentional and could’ve made a really good plot point if the necessity was driven by something more compelling, if instead the soldiers took the villagers hostage and Kora had to save them and THEN they had to prepare for an inevitable retaliation or something along those lines the story would be more compelling from the start because it would put Kora’s decision into more of a moral grey area where yes the villagers could have just accepted their subjugation but Kora knows that if they submit then their oppression would only grow harsher so she decided to show the villagers their best option. Just an idea but something I would watch and better than a coincidence that led to a clearly bad decision that then had to be salvaged. It’s hard to make a mistake engaging because making a poor decision and then desperately avoiding the repercussions of said bad decision by sacrificing others kinda makes you a bad person. They tried to save it and in principle made the right decisions from then on but the flat out bad writing made everything feel like there was something missing to every interaction, sort of like watching video game cutscenes without playing the actual game.

[@gregchezick7757]

One opinion that you have that I have to contest, at the beginning you claimed that the Snider cut of Justice League was vastly superior, IMO it wasn't, the 2 cuts of TJL would be like going into two rooms, in the first room you had a long decaying corpse that you had to walk through, while in the second someone took the worst smelling shit in the corner and you had to sit there and watch it. The corpse definitely smells worse, but at least the stench is brief.

[@russelldavis1539]

I really like how at the start of this video you started that if someone genuinely enjoyed the movie then awesome good for them. That maturity is lost sometimes in discussions about art, I watched this movie on Netflix and ended up ranting to my spouse and my dad (who is a writer) about many of these points. In partially how it tells instead of shows.

[@thegreenjackal]

They did so little with Titus that I didn’t realise he was there because one minute he’s got a beard and then he just doesn’t. Like, I eventually realised it was him but it feels like a renewal arc where he starts as a broken old general and gladiator to return to higher ideals is skipped over or wasted. Which Nemesis would be a good catalyst for it towards the group.

[@Mariodash23]

I really feel like Snyder should be making video games. Everything about Rebel Moon reminds me so much of a mid to somewhat decent action game released for the PS2 that had some neat ideas, a clear amount of passion, but a massive lack of focus and attention to the story to focus more on gameplay & action. If Rebel Moon were a PS2 game released in 2004, it'd probably be a 6-7 out of 10, maybe 8 if the gameplay was really fun, but have heavy criticism to how basic and hollow the story elements were.

[@Uprssdthwrgbttn]

You definitely nailed it. He should have hired writers to help him out. I could tell he genuinely put effort into the story but he's just not that good at it. Also, as you said : you can't put out trash and then expect me to buy the bonus material . The product has to be good first.

[@PentexProductions]

He had the overall world in his head, he just needed someone to help him turn that vision into an actual story.

[@Rietto]

@@PentexProductions I guess Snyder buys into Auteur Theory. He can't admit his own weaknesses.

[@coldsoul333]

"It's only part one": If the part one blow why shot I stick around for part two?

[@makstracy]

I was actually shocked by this movie. I put it on, got about 10 minutes in, then had to pause it. Just those initial scenes, and I couldn’t believe that this was a professional production with what seems like an insane budget on a major streaming service that was…bad. So bad. Terrible, even. Just 10 or so minutes in. It reminded me of that moment as a kid, when you realise for the first time that movies could be bad. It actually caught me so off guard. I had to pause the movie and just sit in surprise for a while.

[@anternet104]

I literally couldn’t watch this movie in one sitting cause I kept getting angry/bored at the movie and had to watch literally anything else

[@Bidenmytime]

I liked 300 because I was a Highschooler. Ive not liked a single Snyder movie since ... He is like a HS drama teacher that is also into Emo bands trying to nail students to relive their "glory days"

[@adambicknell9185]

I'll admit to having not watched the actual film but one thing thats fascinating to me in every analysis I've seen is not a one of them touches on the title, what the 'Child of Fire' is that anything or did Snyder just think it sounded cool?

[@RusPitman]

I vaguely remember something being mentioned that relates to it but im not watching it again to confirm. Rest assured though, if it is in there its definitely dumb and surface level.

[@PentexProductions]

Having sadly seen it many times to make this video, I think it either refers to Kora's backstory where her planet was invaded by the bad guys and she says something like 'I was a child of war' or it refers to her arriving to the moon in a crashed ship. Either way it's unclear, and not a very good title.

[@peterjackson3519]

As a comparison, The crew of Serenity is how you work in the nuances of an ensemble cast. Not saying Joss Whedon is perfect, but Serenity’s personalities, conflict, emotion and backstories are all leagues ahead of this tripe.

[@Violaphobia]

“Zack Snyder is capable of so much more than this” You say that, but I defy you to show that this is not a leap of faith. Granted, I think anybody who says they enjoyed his Justice League is in serious denial

[@RolandTFlakfizer]

Just catching-up on this now after finally accepting that I'll never actually get round to watching Rebel Moon. Excellent work, as ever. I'm not going to suggest you remake this. (Although, if Zack can make two 'parallel' versions, why not do a third? Implement your changes and it would probably differ enough to count as a separate property!) What I really want is for _you_ to make a film. Please, Pentex, for the love of penguins! Even just a screenplay! I love your work here but you deserve to see your name on the big screen.

[@jaymeejaymz]

Rebel Moon was subpar and severely flawed… - story pitch rejected by Lucasfilm - strange casting choices (e.g., elderly Sir Anthony Hopkins voiced a pacifist battle droid, Charlie Hunnam's bad Northern Irish accent, Djimon Hounsou given little to do, Ray Fisher's brief and unnecessary cameo, Fra Fee (actually younger than Sofia Boutella) "aged" to look twice as old just with a beard, Ed "the space-Nazi" Skrein, and Michiel "the simple farmer hero" Huisman; both played the same character Daario Naharis from Game of Thrones, who was Khaleesi's lover) - overloaded with exposition dumps - Larry Fong, who was the cinematographer for 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, and Batman v Superman, didn’t film Rebel Moon; Snyder did - the vagina wormhole that Motherworld spaceships travel through - s-l-o-w m-o-t-i-o-n ad nauseam - blurry-style anamorphic and spherical scenes - abrupt and wonky editing - typical Hollywood fight choreography - little-to-no character development - generic and bland dialogue - phoned-in performances - 1-dimensional space-Nazi villains - disjointed story structure - GRAINS - no sense of urgency and lack of danger - copied scenes from past Snyder movies - overcomplicated closed captions - cut and deleted scenes; continuity issues and inconsequential moments - uneven pacing; a 2-part/4-hr+ movie that might've been better as a multi-episode series - Plot Armor Part One - same universe as the decent Army of Thieves and terrible Army of the Dead It's a pale imitation of better movies, like Star Wars: IV, Dune (2021), Lord of the Rings, One Piece (2023; Netflix), Seven Samurai, and Magnificent Seven (1960 & 2016), as well as not-so-great cult classics, like Flash Gordon (1980), Battle Beyond the Stars, Ice Pirates, and Krull. What made it even worse is that Snyder admitted an extended version will be released and stated, "It's almost like a different movie."

[@PentexProductions]

He also said he's "super proud" of this version. So no excuses!

[@setlik3gaming80]

Hack Snyder must NEVER have full control. He needs chains on him. He must answer to someone. It makes for a better production. The dead movie in Vegas was horrible.

[@cheekster777]

How likely will a Director’s Cut totally change this movie? I was not impressed at all. Went in with low expectations and yet still felt disappointed.

[@PentexProductions]

I think it will give us a handful of extra scenes here and there with characters like the rebellious soldier and the robot, but I think it will be more of the same, and that none of those scenes will actually help develop the characters other than telling us more about their mysterious backstories.

[@Atlas0fStars]

I think it would have been super interesting if Tarak was aged down a little and Nemesis and him had a little bit of a son-mother relationship since Tarak's whole family died and Nemesis' child is dead. Felt like a missed opportunity to characterise them both

[@Atlas0fStars]

maybe Nemesis could've gotten him a shirt

[@PentexProductions]

One of many missed opportunities!

[@goyoelburro]

If I see yet another spin on the "Seven Samurai" in a movie, I will walk out of the theater as soon as I realize it while yelling: *"Write something new!!!"*

[@FlyingFocs]

It's so weird how a movoe that influential and riffed on can still be so much better than it's contemporaries after SEVENTY YEARS.

[@cericat]

@@FlyingFocs because most of the retellings don't get the idea at all. Magnificent Seven (60s) was the closest but that's largely because Seven Samurai was itself something of a love letter to westerns in an era when people actually still knew how to write westerns.

[@pavelZhd]

I think those writers wanted to take mass effect as an example. But then though that there would be not enough screen time to incorporate all the "personal quest" storylines into the movie. Ignoring the fact that in game those personal quests are not interconnected because the player has control over which stories they want to engage with and to what extent. So they have to be self-contained. While in the movie - you have full control of all the lines. And interconnectivity is not only possible but is actually necessary to make characters alive.

[@shamrockdragon7634]

I like your video overall, but disagree about the fight scenes being good. You can see the actors pulling their punches when fighting Kora, going at her one at a time and waiting for the actress to be ready for them to attack. In the fight with Noble, Kora barely reacts to the hard hits she's taking. She should be concussed. Even when Noble has a broken arm, the actor is fighting better than the actress playing Kora is.

[@afruitlesshippo]

I'm using this video to get a summary of the rest of the movie since I stopped watching after they introduced Tarak. I couldn't find the will to resume and now I will never have to think about what I might have missed, because I didn't miss anything at all.

[@joet3935]

No need. The plot went missing. The McGuffin is the moon town needs help. Kora went to get help and found it. The other details are missing or unimportant.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

George Lucas would have failed at Star Wars without some amazing writers, editor, and production team members who do not get enough shine imho and Peter Jackson was a great filmmaker who basically stood on the back of an ALREADY amazing book by an incredible writer (Lord of the Rings). Now things can fail in adaptation and collaboration, but when you get as big as Snyder where you can write your own ticket in Hollywood, you think you are less likely to listen to anyone about how to trim your darlings to make a better story. I am not shocked how Rebel Moon turned out. A good director knows what to cut out, they don't hold onto pieces of a movie to 'put the in the director's cut'.

[@PentexProductions]

Definitely - a director needs to have a strong, unifying vision but they also need to bring other people on board to help them realise that. Snyder should know that writing is not his strong suit, and should have had the confidence to admit that and bring on someone who could actually turn his ideas into a story worth telling. So much wasted potential here.

[@MichalCieply44]

Hey, do you think that mediocre writing in the Rebel Moon could have something to do with 2023 screenwriters strike?