Pilots Make WORST Mistake Possible!

These pilots made the worst possible mistake on this short flight and it cost them their lives. This was a terrible tragedy and the point of a pilot debrief is to share some of the lessons learned so that something like this doesn't happen again.
Check out the WORST aviation disaster in 30 years: • The WORST Aviation Dis...
If you enjoyed this video, please consider showing your support for the work I do to make future videos by joining the channel:
/ @pilot-debrief
NTSB investigation report: www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...
The NTSB accident report does not include the interview with the passenger, but the full NTSB docket with 67 different attachments can be found here: data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNum...
The passenger interview can be found in Operations Attachment 1.
Additionally, a telephone interview with Trans-Pacific revealed that the pilots had the option to stay the night in Philadelphia, but they chose to fly to Teterboro for the night. Here's a link to that article citing the interview: www.northjersey.com/story/new...
NTSB animations: • NTSB Animation - Crash...
#aviation #flying #pilotdebrief
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This channel is for entertainment purposes only and represents solely my opinion and not the opinion, views, or position of anyone else.

[@pilot-debrief]

Please see video description for more details about where to find the passenger interview. Also, check out the WORST aviation disaster in 30 years: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKTUmoB4hsuYodU

[@brianmuhlingBUM]

Well spoken! You did a great explanation of the situation which placed the aircraft and two lives in jeopardy and ultimately ended in death. I will look forward to your next presentation.

[@chrisclermont456]

Excellent analysis. It is a shame these two died, but the glaring incompetence is staggering!! Happy for the passengers who wisely opted to drive!!

[@playme129]

Knowing what you do not know, and checking you manual, applies in any profession.

[@Pseudo-Geek]

Fortunately these idiots only killed themselves and won't be endangering the lives of the public any more.

[@a914freak]

No one seems to care why he was requesting an altitude of 27,000 feet.

[@davidcole333]

I began flying, following a dream. I received my PPL training in a Cessna 172. After I got my license, I achieved about 100 hours. After a short time, realized that I just wasn't very good at flying and like you said in the video, the worst mistake a pilot can make is to assume that you are better than you really are in a career that has deadly consequences you need to stop and realize it may be time for a different career. I felt like I didn't have the finances to get more training and more consistent flight time, so I gave up my flying dream and did something else. It was a hard choice, but I feel like it was the right one for me. It's hard to give up on a dream, but I'm alive and here to be a husband, father and grandfather. That's what really matters.

[@pilot-debrief]

Sorry you had to give up your dream, but you are right about how it's hard to remain proficient if you aren't consistent with training and flying. Thanks for sharing your story!

[@joelglanton6531]

I don't get this; it's harder to drive a truck than fly a 172. I guess some people fail their CDL too, though.

[@paulweston8184]

@@joelglanton6531 You're right about one thing. Some people fail their CDL too.

[@friedchicken1]

you did the right thing. I feel the same but i now work on aircraft in a repair station :D maybe you could do that :D

[@thisoldboat7393]

You're not alone, I also passed on the high life, but now I fly a drone so I'm still clogging up the sky 😂

[@DaveDepilot-KFRG]

You know that you are a shitty pilot when your passengers would rather drive hours than take a 30 min flight.

[@ElementofKindness]

Gotta love how the captain is saying everyone else doesn't know what they are doing, while clearly he does not know what he's doing. *Good on those passengers to recognize the danger they were in with that yahoo.*

[@mikes-wv3em]

he was snacking on fat orange jesus diaper gravy and the death cult

[@JamiefromHali]

Sure is scary to know there are pilots like this flying around.

[@brianstaude2783]

The same people who drive cars, fly planes.

[@doriangray2020]

True…many, if not most, pilots are materially deficient. Too much “good-old-boys” covering up for each other.

[@donc9751]

Fewer every day at this rate!

[@bayanon7532]

@@brianstaude2783 Not true. But there are some. If it was the same people as drive cars, there would be smoking balls of aluminum all over the landscape.

[@Dan-cn3ei]

I was a flight instructor for 16 years and have seen guys like this and wondered how some have lived as long as they did???

[@xjumpmaster82]

This will probably sound bad, but it's very possible that this incident of only the two pilots perishing saved many innocent lives later on.

[@billpope2111]

I had the exact same thought.

[@macioluko9484]

Yes!

[@sludge8506]

This the third analysis of this flight that I have watched and listened to. Each time, I have struggled to believe what I was hearing. This incident is almost unbelievable. 😢

[@michaeltaylors2456]

Safety rules are written in blood

[@AdamsOlympia]

Silver linings.

[@someguyontheinternet7165]

I’m not the worlds greatest aviator, but I’ve never been so unprepared that I was “hundreds of miles away” on an 80nm flight.

[@badgerfishinski6857]

I get lost just driving to the airport

[@kentbetts]

Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the pilot was in a severely defective mental state before the flight.

[@dx1450]

I'm not an aviator, but I can't understand why any pilot would request FL270 on a flight that's less than 100 miles.

[@LV_223]

@@dx1450I believe the answer is simple…he didn’t know he was less than 100 miles away. Regardless of whatever flight plan he filed, the fact that he thought he was “hundreds of miles away” shows that he either had nothing to do with the flight plan filing, or it was automated and he just clicked “enter” without double checking it. It’s such a ridiculous request that ATC probably thought it was a typo, thus they did not actually call him out in it and ask him to explain his reasoning…they just amended the plan, included the amendment in the initial call to the pilot and left it at that. This is truly one of the most jarring “I am suicidally unprepared” mishaps I have ever seen.

[@dx1450]

@@LV_223 If he didn't know how far it was from point A to point B, then he shouldn't have been flying, plain and simple. I mean, when I get in my car to drive somewhere, I have a general idea of how far it is and how long it'll take to get there. When you're piloting a plane, you have to make sure you know how far your destination is so that you have enough fuel to get there, but not so much fuel that you'll be too heavy to take off. I think your comment "suicidally unprepared" is a very apt description of that guy's mindset that day.

[@kevbrown1867]

Just imagine how bad these guys airmanship was that their landing scared the passengers so much they would never fly again with them . Hard to believe they were ever allowed behind the controls of a fast jet and it’s not like it was a secret they didn’t have a clue how to fly a Learjet

[@MegaSunspark]

Yea, how was this even possible that these two clowns found themselves flying a Learjet and were allowed to do so? The captain was not only completely incompetent but had that foul mouthed arrogance.

[@cjpatz]

I feel bad for the copilot. The captain is the PIC, and was doing everything wrong, and has no respect for flight. The copilot knew his limits and tried to convey them to the captain, and he was following the guy who was supposed to know how to handle it.

[@dx1450]

@@cjpatz Yeah, he knew he was out of his depth and tried to give control back to the captain like 5 or 6 times, but the captain just kept ignoring him. Makes me wonder if the captain realized he was out of his depth, too, and hoped the FO could land OK.

[@larryps]

So glad the passengers decided to follow their instincts. Many people would just go along on the flight, ignoring their gut.

[@gendaminoru3195]

well they did have a clue - maybe even a few clues. But certainly far from proficient enough to be left alone in the airplane. But irrespective of the type, these mind numbing behaviors would have had a similar outcome in almost any high performance swept wing turbofan or jet aircraft. They almost appeared to be intoxicated and unable to follow any procedures, with no respect for the operating envelope of the airplane.

[@jamesbarrett5956]

Unbelievable! He said the FO crashed on takeoff during a sim check, what!? I started flying at a young age and got my CFI at 21. For my CFI check ride I did unbelievably bad. For some reason examiner passed me. I did some instructing but always felt like a fraud. I got into the A&P side of the house and have been doing that ever since. I spent almost two decades lamenting that I gave up flying. But honestly I don’t think I had quite what it takes, and I know there’s a lot of professional pilots getting pushed through the system that probably shouldn’t be flying either. This video was an extreme example. After 17 years I’m just now getting back into flying, and respect the discipline much more as a middle aged adult.

[@futurevegan8617]

What a nightmare... I've been uncomfortable being "in control" in a few situations, but can you imagine training in the cockpit of a Learjet and having to say "I don't know what I'm doing and I want you to land it," *FOUR* times before you get help?

[@MrSuzuki1187]

t the time of that accident, I was routinely flying a Pilatus PC-12NG into and out of Teterboro, and flew that approach many times. It was challenging, as all operations at KTEB were. When I heard how the captain had conducted himself during that flight, I was just astounded! He had requested an altitude of 27,000 feet on a flight from Philadelphia to Teterboro, a flight of just 80 miles. On the flights I had made over this route, we were never assigned an altitude greater 4,000 feet due to all of the big airports in the area and the short distance. This told me the captain had no situational awareness as to where he was. The standard procedure at TEB was to fly the ILS to the Torby outer marker, or maybe it was the DANDY intersection, I can't recall which, then break off the approach make a right turn of about 50 degrees to enter a left base leg to Runway 1 but when he did, he would have a huge tailwind on base leg. This was a challenging maneuver, but professional pilots should be able to do it with just a little trepidation. This crew flew past Torby without breaking off the approach to enter a left base for Runway 1, When ATC brought this to their attention, the captain put that Learjet in such a steep bank that he got into an accelerated stall. His actions on the entire flight showed he should never have been in the left seat of a Cessna 150, much less a Learjet.

[@pilot-debrief]

And they did this on a VFR day…I can’t imagine trying to circle to 1 with bad weather.

[@Rawkstar1960]

Well done. Very professional and thorough. Thank you

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

Good post, very informative. You know it's a bad flight when your passengers are so frightened that they say, "Thank you, no. We'll rent a car and get there on our own." I'll bet it was a mindbender when they got to where they're going and found out that their flight crashed. Being happy that you survived but feeling awful that it crashed and people died has got to be a weird duality of emotions. Tough to deal with, I'm sure.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@Skank_and_Gutterboy Just some casual advice from experience... Be happy in the moment. YOU could've been on that plane (or in that fire or whatever disaster)... THAT deserves to be celebrated like any small victory. You can let yourself have it... W's don't get chalked up nearly often enough in the bigger picture of life. You can wait until the hangover to hate yourself in the morning... or cry or whatever. It's okay to feel a little awful about celebrating when someone else lost their life. At the same time, it's not the end of the world... It's THEIR problem/emergency/tragedy, NOT yours. No matter the road you take, life's rough on you... and then you're GOING to die. That's real. There's a couple warnings given to Generals through the ages, and it's relevant here. First, you SHOULD care about the people in your command. You depend on them, just as they depend on your leadership, intellect, and skill. Second, you can NOT let yourself care too much. In war, people fight the enemy and die. It's how victory is won. It's the nature of the business, and if you're going to fall apart over every single life that gets snuffed out over it, you're not going to last very long. Like so many other such videos and commentary or stories, I'm sure there's going to be lots and LOTS of comments about how the pilots didn't deserve to die like that. I want you to look back at their records. It sucks that they didn't get better or more comprehensive instruction and tutelage, BUT they did get through flight school (basic) like any pilots, SO I can PROMISE YOU that they got warned about over-estimating their abilities at the stick. They heard many (or all) the same ancient wit and wisdom of old-timers and the same horror stories of piloting misjudgments, stupidity, short sightedness, and other ways of getting into trouble from flying blindly in IMC from VFR... which is a bit of a bitch even WITH training. For not deserving what happened to them, these two seemed to have worked rather diligently to get there... so think about that. Frankly, in my opinion, the passengers who refused to continue flying ONLY listened to rock solid instincts, and the pilots would've been well advised to take heed of that refusal. ;o)

[@mywestsussex5749]

Very scary to know pilots behave like this

[@Adrenaline416]

This type of pencil-whipped "training" is rampant in 135. I turned down a job flying a Lear-35 because the ground school was a joke and the other pilots they hired were the same type of mentality as the captain in this accident. The cheapest pilots the company could find, really. I told a new, low-time co-worker of mine who was also being hired for the same job position, that I wasn't going to take the job because it was an unsafe environment. I suggested he do the same. He told me he had a wife and their daughter was just born, so he needed the money. A month later he and one of the clown captains they'd hired crashed the jet into rising terrain right after takeoff while trying to scud run at night waiting for an IFR clearance. Killed them both and the two husband and wife paramedics in the back, orphaned their children. All because of the "kick the tire, light the fire" company mantra. Just the thought of trying to stay low to avoid clouds- at night- going 200 knots in an area of mountainous terrain is terrifying and about as stupid as you can get. The co-pilot I knew was brand new to jet flying and probably never even questioned the captain's stupid and suicidal decision. No one ever thinks that getting killed while flying will happen to them, and that's the worst thing anyone can think.

[@maltaconvoy]

Horrible.

[@badgerfishinski6857]

That's what scares me most. Getting a FA job only to have a wreckless Captain cut my life short. ...and others too

[@heinzriemann3213]

​@@badgerfishinski6857reckless

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

I don't really see a problem with billionaires penny-pinching untrained pilots and then getting what they paid for

[@ShadowEl]

​@@thewhitefalcon8539 read what you wrote again. You don't have a problem with obscenely wealthy people sending inexperienced pilots to their deaths just to save some money? Come on now.

[@ExcuseMeWhileIWhipThisOut]

I have zero doubt these pilots' incompetence, leading to their deaths, saved lives down the down the road. Better they bite the dust than a plane full of their passengers.

[@srsusansummers3070]

Thank God the passengers decided to drive back

[@Istandby666]

Religion is the cancer of humanity!

[@MetaView7]

I am curious about what caused the passengers to make that decision.

[@xeldinn86]

@@MetaView7 Well he said that the first landing was pretty bad so that could be the sole reason or they had a bad feeling.

[@askarmuk]

Best decision ever they made!

[@alantaylor353]

It was their decision, God had nothing to do with it.!

[@OMG_No_Way]

I have buddy that flies a G550. They had just landed prior and were parking their car at hotel down the street. They heard the jet and looked up. He made the comment about how good looking it was because he had flown the same type prior to the G. As they were looking at it, they watched it fly into the ground completely dumbfounded.

[@pilot-debrief]

It's a terrible sight to see

[@randybaumery5090]

HOLY TOLEDA!!! That's horrible!!

[@mxcollin95]

Aviation is a pretty small world.

[@pocketpenguin8601]

This flight sounded out of control and chaotic from the start.

[@babygrrlpc5057]

Excellent debrief. Terrifying that either of these guys were in the air.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

I'd be interested to hear about the previous flight where the customers got off. How can a pilot have that many hours and still be that bad.

[@rpc2112]

The PIC had absolutely zero business holding any certificates to fly. Clearly, this guy couldn’t handle his own life.

[@pilot-debrief]

It’s crazy to see how many hours he had and just highlights how more hours doesnt necessarily mean better pilot.

[@Michael-iw3ek]

@@pilot-debrief What's crazy is that they picked this pair out of tons of pilots who could have been much more qualified from the standpoint of their attitude toward professionalism and training.

[@mxcollin95]

@@pilot-debriefamen. So true. Unfortunately, I’ve seen a few really bad corporate pilots fail up like politicians. One guy got let go from our company because nobody liked flying with him (he had a huge ego but sucked at everything) and even worse he really struggled flying a King Air 350 on visual approaches and especially struggled with his landings. He couldn’t hit the aiming point on the runway to save his life. He only wanted to fly IFR and always wanted to only use automation for everything (to cover his poor airmanship I’m pretty sure.) I see the guy a couple months later and he’s flying in a G280. I was definitely scratching my head on that one. His new employer (at that time) definitely never called our company to get info on the guy. This was years ago though so I have no idea what happened to him or where he ended up. Scary though knowing people like that dude are out there.

[@dpeagles]

​@@pilot-debriefThe worst pilot at my old base had over 12,000 hours. That's a huge number for helicopter guys. He was the worst decision maker ever

[@rpc2112]

@@mxcollin95 What’s terrifying is that, according to what a SWA pilot told me, SWA is now hiring PICs without much experience at all bc they can’t find enough qualified PICs. Thank god for modern automation. It’s our only hope.

[@upnywhiteb]

It is scary that the senior pilot was so inept. The junior pilot should have insisted that the other take command.

[@sarge6870]

The passengers deciding to drive to TEB instead of flying reminded me of an American flight I was on from Georgia to Laguardia after completing Army recruiting school. We were at about 32,000 feet when all of a sudden the masks dropped and we did a nose dive down to 10,000 feet for the plane to re-pressurize. When approaching Newark, the flight attendant made an announcement to remain in our seats upon landing as the plane will be fixed and we would continue the flight. The whole plane started yelling HELL NO...we wanted off that plane and eventually, after a 3 hour wait were put on another plane.

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

Wow. Nowadays, they're not allowed to forcibly keep you on the plane when you're at the gate and want to get off. A few pilots getting prosecuted for false-imprisonment and airlines paying settlements in the tens of millions of dollars changed that (not to one passenger, but $$$$$$ to a plane-load of people). Before, flight crews were downright brazen about forcing people to stay aboard.

[@calfeggs]

That's wild they can't fix the plane in a reasonable amount of time; all the mask oxygen generators would need to be replaced.

[@MetaView7]

[@xeldinn86]

No, they did a nose dive to 10,000 feet so you could have enough oxygen not to pass out and die.

[@sarge6870]

@@xeldinn86 Um...yeah. I know that!

[@arthouston7361]

This happens because experienced pilots cost money, and training costs money, and the money not spent is the profit in a 135 operation.

[@sandybrown7621]

135 has stricter rules than 91 though right ? I’d still prefer 91

[@arthouston7361]

@@sandybrown7621 Part 91 gives you the most freedom of operational capabilities. However, when people are being charged money to fly as passengers on an airplane, you need the greater restrictions and requirements of parts 135 and, ideally, part 121 to have the best possible flight outcome. The problem with 91 is it lets less skillful pilots find out in a terrible way that they are less skillful, and sometimes they get to take other people to the grave with them.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

Excellent video. In the beginning of my career, from 1996 to 2001 I flew 4000 hrs in Lear 24/25’s. These airplanes aren’t the easiest to fly. It was easy to get behind the airplane. It was a little rocket with a wing that was not very good at slow speeds. I was taught to fly it mainly using the AOA indicator. I didn’t even pay much attention to the calculated ref speeds, I flew whatever speed the proper AOA would give me. That airplane could do so much, if you flew it on AOA. The airplane had a pretty significant AOA indicator. However, it was placed in front of the captain, not the FO. This was one of the reasons we never let an FO fly from the right seat. We always swapped seats. Had these guys paid attention to the AOA, they wouldn’t have gotten into this kinda trouble.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks for sharing that perspective. AOA is a great tool to use for flying!

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@pilot-debrief yes. You having flown in the military, know that. So do non military guys like me who flew Lears or similar aircraft using AOA. This is why I was so surprised that Boeing and Airbus don’t have AOA indicators. I always found that to be weird.

[@spiller212]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183probably because there is no need to indicate AoA in a fully powered fly-by-wire aircraft with envelope protection…

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@spiller212 Well, I flew the B737 and 747 without FBW and without an AOA indicator. Also, AF that crashed that perfectly intact A330 over the Atlantic, could’ve shown more situational awareness to those pilots with an AOA. The pilot thought he was over speeding and kept the nose up, while stalling. Asiana B777 that crashed in San Fransisco because the auto throttles were disengaged, ended up too slow. A proper AOA indicator could’ve made them aware of this. The Navy has B737’s and they do depict an AOA on their PFD. So it’s not that hard to do.

[@spiller212]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 yes, you are right. I was just stating that modern FBW planes probably don’t indicate it as it is maybe just useless information for a pilot whose plane is (at least in normal law) flying under envelope protection where a stall isn’t possible anyway. They could at least provide an AoA indication in alternate or direct law modes, that’s right. I see your point and it’s weird that non-FBW planes don’t offer it. But then again - it didn’t save the Lear pilots in the above mentioned accident either. I guess you need to know what it does and what it tells you and actually use it as a reference or it’s just a useless piece of equipment in the cockpit.

[@JDzAlive]

Not everyone is meant to be a truck driver, a bus driver, or a pilot.

[@tin2001]

Unfortunately, many try anyway. And they're usually the sort of mindset that it's everyone else that's at fault.

[@las10plagas]

I don't even have a drivers license, because I don't think I'm made for this. I get distracted very easily. I see a blue car and be like "wow, a blue car!" and I crash

[@hmmmnmnmnm]

Learning to fly was much more difficult than I had anticipated. It wasn’t so much the controls, it was the mental load - operating the radio, following checklists, managing the engine, remembering procedures, and so on. Of course, practice makes perfect and it gets easier, but if you have trouble juggling different tasks under pressure where failure can be deadly, you’re gonna have a bad time.

[@etops8086]

I was part of the third party safety and compliance team that worked with this company after the accident to ensure it would never be repeated again. One item that had come up on the NTSB report was the Pilot Records do not include failed checkrides for FAA pilot certificates (PPL, CPL, Instrument Rating) and the FAA report only validated their currently held pilot certificates. All failures in PRIA were only for 135 or 121 unsatisfactory check rides. The PIC had worked for one operation, but his previous operator before (for whom he flew a Laer 35A) that had gone out of business so no training records were available for PRIA. Additionally the PRIA did not produce a failed 135.293(b) for the SIC because he was permitted to resign from that operator rather than take an unsat. With that in mind the PIC PRIA showed one failed upgrade in a Beechjet 400A and the SIC PRIA showed no failed qualification segments. The limits of PRIA were huge, as the IAH Atlas Air accident showed the whole industry, and the newly implemented PRD will hopefully mitigate that. I can with certainty say that the passengers did not "get off" the final leg. The passengers were booked on a one-way flight into PHL and did not list TEB as their final destination, the aircraft was actually positioning to TEB to pick up another flight a couple days later. The passenger interviews are part of the NTSB report, as is the assigned routing inclusive of the released live and position legs. I don't think it does anyone a service to dramatize events six years after the fact. The accident company were pretty proactive and grounded all four of their remaining Lear 35A aircraft, terminating the majority of their air crew and only rehiring any that went through a full interview, vetting, training and checking process. After ruling out mechanical failure, the probable cause was known fairly quickly based on information received and the company did not wait for a final report to make major changes. They never flew Lear 35A's again. Believe it or not, the company's SMS had been held up by the FAA for months before the accident and even after the accident the FAA continued to delay it - informing the operator that it could not be implemented until they said so, despite the criticism they received from the NTSB over that (accepted manuals such as the SMS should be permitted implementation prior to FAA acceptance). This was eventually resolved when the company moved its operation out of the Van Nuys FSDO. They also refused to manage aircraft for owners, as the accident aircraft represented the only aircraft the company didn't lease directly - rumor is that the PIC and one other "problem child" came with the aircraft as a condition for management of the asset. They eventually sold all their Lears and replaced them with other aircraft. I believe of their original pilot pool they only kept the Chief Pilot and two captains and declined to re-hire the rest, eventually building up a respectable group of professionals very slowly. The company was sold in 2019 and operates now under new management. The chief pilot became an FAA safety inspector as a result of his experiences with this accident and his work during the subsequent NTSB investigation and revamping of the company's compliance standards.

[@daryltremain9975]

Thank you for adding all of that invaluable information. Especially that the PIC had come to the company as a condition of taking on a plane, and that failed check rides weren't passed on. Also informative that the passengers weren't, in fact, scheduled to take that third leg.

[@pilot-debrief]

@etops8086 I take a lot of time to research these incidents to ensure they are as close to the facts as possible. I saw claims that the passengers got off the flight and so I verified the information before including it in the video. There are 67 items included in the NTSB docket for this investigation, including 95 pages of interview summaries. I'll put a link in the video description for reference, but it's operations attachment 1, and the interview with the passenger is at the end where they describe how they cancelled their flight to TEB. Then, per a separate news interview with Trans-Pacific, the pilots were given the option to stay the night in Philly since the plane wasn't needed in TEB until later on. I appreciate all of the additional information and had read about the PRIA issues during my research but your comments provide great additional context for others watching.

[@daryltremain9975]

@@pilot-debrief Thank you for clarifying the issue of the passengers. I'm sorry that I assumed the commenter was correct. I am impressed with your professionalism and thoroughness. Thank you for replying

[@etops8086]

@@pilot-debrief While I don't want to come across as putting down your effort on the matter, I think your video is a fine assessment of the flight and your research was above and beyond what many produce on this platform. I may have come across poorly in my initial post when I mentioned "dramatizing". I was not so much criticizing your work but more that the facts of the flight do not back up the passenger's testimony and it was summarily disregarded by the NTSB during their investigation. I am hanging on this not as a gotcha but because it was factually untrue and the flight itself was dispatched by the company as no passengers on return. This had actually led to the NTSB seeking a legal interpretation from the FAA office of chief counsel on whether a paid empty leg could be operated under 14 CFR Part 91 (it can, of course). Thank you very much for providing the dockets as I was a bit too lazy to go looking through my old external hard drive for them. I would like to draw your attention to Operations Attachment 1, Section 20.0 (page 92, fourth bullet point): "The charter was for only the BED to PHL leg, and was not for a return back to BED." Additionally the charter agreement executed by the travel agency, contained in Attachment 11, indicates no passengers from PHL-TEB. The flight release (Operational Attachment 3) is also showing the final leg being operated under Part 91, and was not revised again after 5/15/2017 0408 AM EST. Honestly if I wasn't so closely involved in this one (among a few others) I wouldn't know the case so intimately and could see how that singular interview could seem factually true - after all that guy was there. You'll notice even the passenger from the prior trip started going into weird ideas about the operation (none of which were true), as well. I think it's a mechanism people have when faced with the idea that they were on a plane that crashed in close proximity of time to when they were aboard it. This does speak to the weakness of the witness statements and the complexity in weeding out fact from fiction. In reading through other interviews for this case, you'll find people talking about burning engines, falsified safety ratings, and counterfeit air carrier certificates for this operation. None of which were factually true and thus disregarded by the NTSB and FAA. The reason the interview with one of the passengers (that stated they did not feel comfortable continuing on to TEB) did not make the final report was because that passenger was never booked to go to TEB and "misremembered" as is often the case during the interview process. Anyway I know this probably seems nitpicky, it's just how I roll on these matters. Keep up the great content man, I'll keep watching and enjoying your work. Keep it safe out there.

[@dpeagles]

Great addition to the story. Thanks

[@RKDriver]

"The older I get... The better I was."

[@leonardhill4440]

Wow! Talk about premonition…whenever my stomach and smarter self begin chatting I’m stopping whatever that day and rescheduling.

[@marklupus]

I read the NTSB report on this accident some time ago and found myself shaking my head, counting the number of warning flags that should have went out to company about the performance of this pilot. It's just fortunate that he didn't kill anyone on the ground due to his poor attitude and airmanship.

[@YankeeinSC1]

I can't imagine some of these terms/concepts like "Zero" rating being swallowed or shoved down the throats of the line pilots at any serious operation. I know I'd flown with some real zeros... as new technology jets were introduced to airline fleets in the 1990, those bozos were distilled onto the older jets, because they either didn't want to, or couldn't check out on FMS/DFGS fleet types. The embrace of the "we can teach anyone to fly" mentality caused this accident. Unfortunately it also helps solidify my opinion that some (not all) pilots have reached a dead end of their careers and can't get hired at, or have gotten fired from airlines.

[@Green__one]

Watching this video, my first immediate reaction was that the problem here wasn't just the pilots, it was the entire company. The decision making hiring these 2 pilots, and then putting this combination of 2 pilots in the same cockpit was REALLY bad. This is a company I would not want to be withing a thousand miles of.

[@les8518]

I find this almost unbelievable that both pilots were allowed to fly a aircraft let alone a Lear Jet.

[@RPMZ11]

Sitting here watching, quietly. Back in 97', I was attached to a two-week Canadian Army winter exercise. Due to conditions, our whole flt of four CH-147 Chinooks were all down for maintenance, and I was offered a flight out for the week-end on one of the Brigade sister Sqns' CH-146 Griffons. With appreciation, I declined, ''Ta Cap,We're good''...one hour later... that great young Griffon crew went in, disorientated and inverted in that blizzard. ''Hallowed be thy name''

[@mattcero1]

Best road trip ever made by the earlier passengers!

[@TomPauls007]

Excellent analysis. This is the most intense and disturbing flight follow I've ever seen. My heart was pounding and my palms were sweaty. I wouldn't take a taxi with these folks.

[@pilot-debrief]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

Yep, incredibly unprofessional behavior. I don't know how these guys could pass a check-ride.

[@dennythomas8887]

@@Skank_and_Gutterboy apparently they didn't pass several times. I'd like to see somebody track down the "check airman" that signed off on these guys.

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

@@dennythomas8887 No doubt. The recordings were appalling, it doesn't matter who you are.

[@victorcroker2765]

FL270 on a flight from Philly to Teterboro? So much for "Situational Awareness." Dropping that many F-Bombs in a half hour? So much for a "Sterile Cockpit."

[@Jimmy_Boy]

Just imagine how many deficient flights that pilot got away with before the final one.

[@pilot-debrief]

Probably way too many!

[@TheGunnarRoxen]

"The worst mistake is thinking you are better than you are" is true in general and sage wisdom, though of course with far more dangerous consequences for a pilot. It is also something that many people never learn. A sad and unnecessary end to two lives. I'm just glad they didn't take their former passengers too.

[@sharonmashatt4869]

Why I’m very leery about flying. I’ve too many documentaries where someone didn’t do something right and cost the lives of everyone even themselves. Love your podcast. I’m getting smart.

[@a.r.r.5626]

I am not even a pilot, but I thoroughly enjoy watching the analytics done in each of these videos. Two common reasons for crashes that I see in these videos and Mayday Air Disaster episodes: 1) Pilot arrogance and over-confidence of their capabilities. The thought that crashing could never possibly happen to them. 2) Lack of preparation and then lack of focus in the cockpit whether alone or a part of a crew.

[@dinosoarmotorsports]

As a GA pilot with only 750 hours, I've always followed Dirty Harry's advice for my flying..."A mans [pilot] gotta know his [their] limitations." I've never step beyond mine, and took every flight seriously. I've made eye-opening mistakes on three occasions, and I've never made those three mistakes ever again. This accident is hard to listen to knowing two people died as a result. As always, a great video and training...thanks for posting!

[@halmc8109]

Excellent coverage of an unhappy event.

[@fuffoon]

When I see a photo of a private jet nose low, inverted, with the ground in sight I know it not another happy ending on Pilot Debrief. Always good presentations.

[@slopsec2358]

Maybe 40+ years as a pilot doesn't make me experienced enough, but I can't even comprehend how any pilot could not know where they are at any given time!

[@stevendasilva9256]

I remember that day, i was working at hangar 21 on the apron in front of the hangar door, i was working a G-450 with landing gear issues, i heard something which sounded like a muffled tractor trailer crashing into a building, didn't pay much attention to it since that part of NJ is fairly noisy during the day. A few guys came out of the hangar and were looking to the south, one of the guys told me that a Lear just augured in, i thought oh no, got up and looked toward the crash site and noted the black smoke column, with the sound of fire truck sirens approaching. I've been working in aviation since 1987 and the one thing I've always heard was, the Lear Jet is one aircraft you never get behind on. It has a super critical wing and a steep bank in it at slow speed is like poking the grim reaper in the eye.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@BenjaminKorth-mf5ec]

My first plane ride was in a lear 35. At the time I was building aircraft cabinets at Duncan Aviation. It was quite a thrill. The jet was the nicest lear I had ever worked on and when completed cabin doors, cabinet doors and drawers hand to checked in flight. The pilot was top notch thank God.

[@isturma]

What's interesting is that the copilot tries to handover control multiple times in the last few minutes. I think he HAD the realization that he wasn't that good, but it was too late.

[@bayanon7532]

Those pilots were so far behind the aircraft, I'm surprised they died in the crash.

[@las10plagas]

🙂

[@ianhillman4007]

Love your channel. New Subscriber here. My Son flies for Air Canada on the 787 Dreamliner. I grew up on airbases across Canada as my father was in the RCAF as ground crew. I love everything to do with flying. You pilots are the luckiest people in the world. 😊

[@ImpactWench]

"You take over, I don't wanna F up" - this is a person pleading for his life

[@Mr-Damage]

I'm not a pilot although I have had some flight training and did a unauthorised solo by " borrowing " a 172 I had access to and no one around for 200 miles but that's another story, i drive big semi trucks but completely understand how some people and machinery of any sort dont mix. The trucks i have driven in size up to 3 trailer roadtrain combinations weighing up to 130 tonnes requires a different mindset to the car driver and so i can relate to the thinking ahead and planning for things like gearing down mountain ranges using engine braking and low gears not touching the brakes so you don't fry them etc etc, following procedures that have been paid for in blood are a must in any industry. I have known many a young trainee or someone incompetent let loose to early on their own in something to big to handle wind up dead first week on the job. Great video mate. Really enjoyed it, subbed and liked.

[@chimpinabowtie6913]

This is absolutely terrifying.

[@tommychew6544]

That was maybe the scariest flight video I have ever seen over the US! How were they able to get a FFA license to fly an aircraft?!

[@86FxBdyCpe]

University of Phoenix?

[@lbowsk]

FFA will license anybody. The FAA? Not quite, but apparently pretty easy too.

[@xeldinn86]

Future Farmers of America doesn't issue licenses to fly aircraft the last I checked...

[@tommychew6544]

@@xeldinn86 One beer too many when I made that typo. LOL

[@micclay]

@@xeldinn86 not true. I was authorized experimental privileges on my Kubota.

[@LoMe]

Reaching 100k, well done and congrats!

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks! Very kind of you to notice! I appreciate all your support!

[@TWA727]

This is a total disgrace. Those 2, especially the Captain, had no business in the cockpit. This is gross negligence at the highest level. What the hell was the chief pilot at that company thinking.?

[@TruthHasSpoken]

Who gave either of them a license? So tragic but also foreseeable

[@remka3650]

Hi dude. You have been doing great stuff. Been watching you last couple of months and learned a lot. All the best and happy landings.

[@lrparrish227]

It was a good thing the passengers had "survival instinct" to get off that flight!

[@user-zk1my8fc6x]

Thank God the passengers decided to drive back. Sure is scary to know there are pilots like this flying around..

[@wilsjane]

It may have had a safer outcome, if the pilots had taken the taxi and the passengers had flown the plane. 🤣

[@LeolaGlamour]

A real airline would have never hired them and they train in flight simulators.

[@sarahmacintosh6449]

These guys sound like they shouldn't be flying GA, let alone commercially. It's sad that they died because no-one (themselves or their company) realised this.

[@DrumNut927]

Your final sentence regarding the worst mistake a pilot can make is thinking you’re a better pilot than you really are, really came home to me. When I was learning how to fly (gliders), my instructor, who was a fighter pilot in WW2 would constantly tell me to have confidence in myself and my ability as a pilot, knowing that not having confidence in one’s ability can lead to panic and bad or fatal decisions in an aircraft. However in this instance I think perhaps the PIC’s overconfidence lead to the same fatal result.

[@eldtaylo]

I've done a lot of flying in both my military and civilian careers. I'm not a pilot but, as a flight medic, I've gotten to know the procedures and worked with a variety of pilots on fixed and rotor wing aircraft. I can't see how these guys were even allowed to fly a plane that carried passengers. If I had been on a flight with these guys I would have reported them as unfit to fly.

[@justplanefred]

It truly is an unfortunate time we are in where people can’t be corrected or told they are doing something wrong… This is the result

[@donc9751]

What a messed up situation! Thank God the 2 brothers were smart enough to get the heck off that plane and drive to their destination!!!

[@ronthweatt2489]

Hoover I sure love these debriefs of the incidents. As a former USAF SP and having worked for DELTA Airlines for 6 years I have spent a lot of time around aircraft. this channel is as I heard a AF pilot say once "shit hot"!

[@christopherseivard8925]

Fascinating. Great to analyze the problem. Thanks.

[@dyates6380]

VERY informative video. I really liked the way you broke it down in layman's terms and simplified it so it was easily understandable. Thank you. Sad story.

[@pilot-debrief]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!

[@Grouse2275]

In my field incompetency is widespread and it does take lives. In the aviation world, I generally see it as the one field where professionalism and competency remains very high. Unfortunately this does show that even in a strictly regulated field, there are people who don’t belong there. Many accidents/mistakes in life come from a mentality of just believing that it will be “ok” and the avoidance of personal embarrassment will drive people to continue to do something that they really know is wrong or dangerous.

[@Daniel-it1dp]

I was already very leery about ever flying in a private plane given how often we see them crashing in the news but after watching your videos I downright refuse. I didn't realize how many folks are allowed to fly planes and how much of the safety and checks are dependent on the honor system.

[@brianbarry9177]

Hoover, I’m a new pilot with 140 hours, all in my C182. I enjoy all your videos and appreciate the breakdown of how things can go wrong and how quickly it can happen. The moment you lose respect for the dangers is the moment that you let the dangers become more real. Keep the videos coming cause I bet you have saved lives by doing them!

[@juaerez69]

Great breakdown of the crazy mistakes that piled up to lead to this sad outcome.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

Ive read the cvr it was a disaster. If the sic wasnt flying they had a chance. They almost had a chance to redeem themselves when the sic intially attempted to hand over the controls but the captain kept ignoring him, he attempted more then once because he wasnt comfortable.

[@pilot-debrief]

I think the Captain wasn’t comfortable either and he resorted to just letting someone else fly, thinking the FO would figure it out

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

@@pilot-debrief Yep. He had a bad flying history and if I remember correctly he didn't disclose all of that.

[@mikev4089]

Agree 100%. I’ve flown into Teterboro many times and it’s not an issue for experienced pilots, but for inexperienced / ill prepared pilots it can be more challenging. These pilots were both under the circumstances and it had deadly consequences.

[@kepler240]

That was a tough one. Feel really bad for the co-pilot.

[@jimdavis1939]

Former Lear 35 captain here. These two guys were dead before engine start in Philadelphia.

[@dennythomas8887]

I'd go one step further and say that that actually happened when they signed their contracts.

[@jimdavis1939]

@@dennythomas8887 Yeah, if you read their work histories in the NTSB report, it is pretty hard to understand why that company hired them and gave them the responsibilities they did.

[@JollyDeacs11]

Great analysis and production/re-count. I've decided not to ever fly again (last flight was Feb 2020, San Diego to Seatac, WA. I love aviation but the decisions of late, from pilots is appalling! Nepal is another example of distraction, not following protocol and not doing the job at hand. I've also seen too many videos of unhinged passengers and pilots. It's frightening. Distractions and incompetency have been around for decades...Air Florida in 1982, DC highlighted the pinacle of incompetency. I love your show and productions, you know your stuff! Thank you Sir.

[@NorwayT]

Great rundown, Pilot Debrief. Whenever I come across people who uses expletives in every other sentence and/or are exceedingly rude for little to no reason, my antennas go up. It is almost always indicative of someone who's trying to cover up their own low esteem and/or lack of knowledge, ineptitude and incompetence.

[@kyle381000]

Very clear and detailed explanation of a complex situation.

[@danbuffington75]

I learned a lot from this video. Thank you.

[@pilot-debrief]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@sylviaelse5086]

The barriers to entry to a career in aviation are such that we risk getting the people most determined to be pilots, rather than those most capable of doing the job.

[@beefchops1400]

Like politicians!

[@YankeeinSC1]

not so much... this guy couldn't advance his career any farther. Dead ended at a 135 charter operation instead of a "good" flying job (one with a schedule, better compensation etc...)

[@LeolaGlamour]

Air force has a reserves program and I feel thats where most people need to start. If you can't make it there it might not be for you.

[@YankeeinSC1]

@@LeolaGlamour Yet another brainless comment from someone that knows nothing about anything related to the discussion.

[@tullochgorum6323]

Best argument I've ever heard for flying commercial on a quality airline. How in the name of all that's sane could an executive jet company put two such incompetent people in the same cockpit?

[@Sep-jk3vi]

I was expecting an f104 Starfighter from the thumbnail. Great channel 👍

[@camsmeltzer9388]

Not a career where you can fake it till you make it! Surreal that through all the testing and deficiencies more emphasis wasn’t put on getting these two sorted out in training.

[@pilot-debrief]

It made me wonder how many other pilots pulled either of these two aside during their career to have a serious talk with them about not flying anymore.

[@kaasmeester5903]

Fake it till you break it. Thankfully those passengers had gotten off when he did.

[@glennwatson]

I personally have found without a proper chart briefing you definitely going to make mistakes, and they hadn't done any proper briefings about the circling which is concerning.

[@andredarin8966]

LGA used to have an approach named "Expressway Visual". It was to runway 31 and if you did it enough it would be committed to memory. While executing the approach was challenging given LGA's runway length of 7,000', if I remember correctly it was 2,500' to Dials (an intersection on a 45-degree heading to 04--which would put you over the LIE), a right , descending turn to 85 degrees while dropping the gear and lowering flaps to 15 degrees to hit the lakes at 1,200', and then a left turn for a short final to 31. It's become an RNAV approach but is still unlike many others in the country.

[@lbowsk]

@@andredarin8966 I used to love flying that app.

[@usgalsen]

Great channel that reminds us of the complexity of being a pilot and the responsibilities therein.

[@Msbrowneyes114]

Just found your channel and I’m binge watching all your videos. I love how you explain everything. Awesome channel!!!!

[@pizzlesauce]

He started the final turn for RWY1 quite close to right over my house. I wasn't aware of anything wrong at the time so I didn't hear or see anything, but it's still a little disconcerting knowing it could have ended my life that day.

[@JustMe00257]

Great analysis 👍🏻

[@tamugrad2007]

As others have mentioned, this was an entire series of completely inept errors on the parts of both pilots. It's no surprise that the previous passengers decided tempting death once was enough.

[@LiquidAudio]

Your last point especially is so true. Just because you want to do something doesn’t mean you have an aptitude for it or will be good at it. I see this all the time in the field I work in, too.

[@fu2201]

I like how they fail tests then they get more training and then miraculously pass. hmmmmm

[@pilot-debrief]

It’s common for students to struggle with one or two minor things in training. It’s not common to crash multiple times.

[@glennwatson]

Well I think part of the point also is that he didn't actually pass, and the PIC had him doing duties he wasn't signed off for.

[@lorimeyers3839]

I don’t fly, but it’s incredible how careless these guys were.

[@pilot-debrief]

Yes, and very unfortunate

[@jazzman5598]

Excellent vid. Thanks very much.

[@theresarossi6306]

Love your knowledge, and you explaining is so helpful

[@tibzig1]

I absolutely agree with you. If I wanted to be pilot but found that I simply lacked the temperament/reactions/decision-making skills, I would find another career. My father was a pilot. He started flying in1958 with the Pakistan Air Force. He started out on the Tiger Moth, then went on to the Texan T-6, and then to the T-33 & T-37. He flew a number of Classic Cold War fighters: The MIG 15, MIG 19, F-86 (Canadair Sabre), the F104, the older Dassault Mirage with close to 4000 hours when he retired. He also flew combat missions during the 1965 & 1971 India-Pakistan war. He shot down 1 x Indian SU 7 while damaging another while flying the Sabre. All air to air gunnery. He then went into commercial flying. On the commercial side, he flew the F-27 Fokker, Boeing 727, the older series 747, and the DC 10. He would always lament about the fact the an "alarmingly large" number of air force "rejects" would end up in commercial aviation and were "weak flyers." He also complained that individuals with no aptitude for flying wanted to become pilots because in Pakistan it paid extremely well and pilots were considered to be in a high social class. It surprised him no end as to why such folks would pick a career like aviation where as you stated the consequences of an error can be fatal. I am sure you are aware of the Pakistan International Airlines crash of the Airbus in Karachi and a couple of others crashes in Islamabad. All due to blatant pilot error and bad decision making. He recounted a cargo flight he did with a pilot (no military background) from Karachi to Bangkok in a DC 10. My father was the co-pilot and according to him, having flown with this particular captain previously, he stated that the man (who was at least twenty years younger than him!) was prone to daydreaming and taking thing way too casually. When they were close to Bombay, a non-flying crew member appeared in the cockpit with a concerned look on his face and stated that he was smelling "something burning" at the rear of the plane. My father immediately got up and verified that there was a foul "rubber burning" smell coming from under the floor. He went and told the captain that they needed to put down in Bombay asap, but the captain seemed very nonchalant about the whole matter and said that "no need to worry, we can make it to (Bangkok)." My father stated that he could not believe his ears because an in-flight fire is one of the worst emergencies one can encounter. He said that at that point he simply intimidated the captain as his background was well-know and affirmatively and "sternly" told him that they were going to land in Bombay. The captain complied! Once in Bombay, the ground engineers did find some wires that had shorted. It could have ended very badly. I was attracted to aviation simply because of my father but never really had an inclination to be a pilot and he never pushed his children toward it. Ironically, his greatest concern was becoming medically unfit to fly! LOL! He passed away in 2017 at the age of 80. Life is strange. He never had a hot seat and Aviation did not kill him but cigarettes did. I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. Please keep them coming.

[@miskatonic6210]

I wonder why people feel the need to write an essay about their father when it has nothing to do with the video and nobody asked for it.

[@tibzig1]

You did not have to read it. LOL!@@miskatonic6210

[@MrSuzuki1187]

After reading hundreds of accidents in the NTSB Reporter Magazine, I have come to the conclusion that some people are born to kill themselves in and airplane crash, as these two certainly were.

[@kennethlane3896]

I found your channel by accident and started watching your presentations. I like the way you present your content and subscribed. Thank you. Looking forward to the next one.

[@charlesdowning4776]

Great job explaining for us non pilots. On hook on learning what causes Airplane accidents so now (Mentour pilots) n you have me attention. I’m now subscribed keep up the great ❤work

[@BruceBusby]

There were no pilots in that cockpit, there were 2 passengers moving controls around unit the scene of the accident

[@DarthDianese]

The actual cause of the accident was the Captains decision to fly

[@huracanmedia1661]

Excellent analysis and a scary one as well wondering how these type pilots with clearly limited skills are still able to fly unsupervised. You are correct never overestimate your own capabilites

[@ross9581]

I like your briefings. They are very clear and make understanding the situations even without being a pilot. Thank you.