Horror Has An Ugliness Problem

[@themayhemcalling4099]

I love this analysis. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say “I love the body horror” in a movie and it’s just a guy with a missing eye or something. Like I consider body horror to be your head popping out of your body attached to your spine, not having a “weird face.”

[@Gaawachan]

I think it's interesting that one could argue that Frankenstein's monster was the start of this trend because the story of Frankenstein had the literal opposite message. It was the doctor who was the "monster." It was the "monster" who was most human, and the victim. And yet movies, being a visual medium, took the idea of making some sort of iconic visual anomaly as a defining characteristic for a threatening force and ran with it. In the pursuit of unsettling the audiences/making memorable designs, they ended up sending the opposite message of the story of Frankenstein, one of the most important works of sci-fi horror that helped define the genre. It is a bit strange to me that Frankenstein, being over 100 years old, is still one of the only horror films to actually approach the idea of someone with unconventional looks and how people treat them with some nuance. I think how society treats people with disabilities or atypical appearances is much more suited to horror fuel.

[@vallum12100]

Consider how many depictions of the monster was, especially closer to its release, depicted as an ethereal beauty that was unsettling. There are works made that are escaping me at the moment to quote. But in the novel, the creature was described as such, "How can I describe my emotions at this catastrophe, or how delineate the wretch whom with such infinite pains and care I had endeavoured to form? His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips" He was a creature to fear in how he was unsettling in being a created human, to compound the themes of the doctor was breaking laws of nature by creating this person.

[@searchingfororion]

There is a fabulous film I had the luxury of stumbling across that addresses this; "Gods and Monsters" the leads are Brendan Fraser and *Ian McKellen* who portrays the director of the Frankenstein and 'bride of' films long after his heyday. Further, the portion regarding McKellen's role is fairly biographical.

[@Erinkyan]

I'm disabled and have been involved with disability arts for around a decade, and oh boy, this is a topic that we return to over and over as disabled artists. I even wrote an entire piece about it back in 2014, which was for a performance night entirely *based* around the freakshow stereotype (we performed it in a tent too, which was awesome). An excerpt: "And when the bad guys on TV look like you, and the monsters in bedtime stories seem lonely like you, and you hear the phrase “a face only a mother could love” and know the only person who tells you that you’re beautiful is your mother, you learn that too. Townspeople run with pitchforks to chase monsters down and kill them. They may not have managed to kill me, but I went home bruised and bleeding just the same." We can't help but return to monstrosity as a topic - it's a topic that doesn't leave us alone in life, so what else do you do with the inescapable but transform it into art? I hope that one day in the future, disabled people won't be able to relate to it ever again. I mean, I'm not holding my breath on that, but I need to hope for it.

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much for sharing that. Perfectly put!

[@Halucygeno]

What pisses me off is that this isn't just with horror, bodily deformities and evil. Any traits which have been traditionally understood as "ugly" are often used to convey an undesirable personality. Having bad teeth, braces or being overweight has long stood as a visual shorthand for being dumb, awkward, weird, uncool or lazy. Why do writers and character designers insist on treating these completely superficial, often coincidental or genetically determined traits as reflections of personality flaws? I feel particularly struck by this in anime, which almost always has smooth faced, pretty-boy protagonists while the conventionally unattractive are far more likely to be villains, weirdos/creeps or comic relief side-characters. I'm still waiting for an anime with an "ugly" protagonist that is just, like, a normal person, doing everything a typical protagonist would do.

[@Kijinn]

Writers and character designers are also just very normal humans. They have the same thoughts and ideas as all people surrounding them. As such, what they create is just a reflection of society, at the specific point in time. The responsibility that comes with creation, is something we wish everyone would be aware of and attempt to do better than the masses...but you can't force yourself to be better than you are. You can only hope to become better over time.

[@johnterrencesmith2148]

Angel Densetsu is a manga that is somewhat in that direction.

[@the_Googie]

@@Kijinn as a concept artist your motivations are not always led by your own ideals or artistry. There's tropes that work and if you wanna make money in the industry, you have to listen to studio guidelines. Or they hire someone who does. Most character designs (in video games especially) fall under three categories: Hot, cute, or badass. Choose one of these for protagonist characters, or good guys in general. I will make a main character attractive, because people associate competence, courage and intelligence with good looks, just how they connect ugliness with stupidity and disease. (People also like to put their genitals in proximity of things they find aesthetically appealing, this monkey-brain exploit is commonly known as "sex sells") Those ideas stem from actual disabilities affecting both the physical appearance, aswell as cognitive functions. Our ape brains will connect those two, especially when they seldomly appear without the other. The borders of appealing and ugly however, are highly subjective. A characterful facial design can just aswell be a protagonist as someone conventionally attractive. Its all about the overall vibe. Tough to explain. An orc however, will never be a good guy. And if he's made a good guy, you give them a symmetrical face and somewhat masculine physics.

[@totheendh3330]

The anime, My Love Story, is a shojo anime with an "ugly" protagonist that is often called scary looking. However, Takeo, the protagonist, actually gets to have a cute romance story! Highly recommend if you want to watch something light hearted.

[@manticore6963]

"Isn't it enough that they're actual fascists?" As a Warhammer-fan that gets really frustrated with it's community - appearently no. It's not enough that they're fascists. From what I experienced, being fascist isn't enough because people will argue with you how it's not fascism because of some minor detail(s). In Midsommar's case they would say "well it's not an actual government, but a cult, so they're not fascists - which means you liberal snowflake have no idea what you're talking about and you're wrong in everything else you said." --- Honestly it's kinda sad that the only Horror-character with physical deformities who isn't portrayed as "evil" that comes to my mind is Jamie Brewer from "American Horror Story" who has Down-Syndrome...that's it. Maybe Sloth from The Goonies, but that's not Horror and his appearence was meant to be scary at first, before the characters discover that he's a friendly but mistreated guy. I still somewhat will defend the aspect that sometimes just our disease avoidance instinct will kick in. Not because I think that it excuses that behaviour completely, but more because not keeping that instinct in mind makes it seem like every negative reaction towards someone with a disabilty is pre-meditated and a deliberate act. There's a difference between making people aware that they're acting on an instinct that isn't relevant to the situation and outright accusing someone of ableism because their brain makes them feel uncomfortable around people with deformities. When it's clear that it's a deliberate act, that's of course something completely different and should be called out.

[@timothymclean]

Which is worse-the "Here's a technicality that demonstrates they're not fascists" defense (which mirrors an inability to recognize any contemporary fascists with a modicum of common sense), or the "Their fascy behavior is justified because X" defense (which mirrors a willingness to defend fascy behavior)?

[@HowToPnP]

You had a discussion with an Arch fan, didn't you?

[@mranderson4739]

All people deserve to live with dignity

[@pimscrypt]

Absolutely!

[@roxiep2010]

What's interesting is how early exposure to people that are "different" changes your perspective. As an autistic kid I went to a special education school in my early years, which meant I "rode the short bus." As a result I was exposed to kids that had to wear helmets or were bound to wheelchairs. My mom pointed out to me one day that I was "never afraid" to play with kids in wheelchairs, and I remember being confused. She had to explain to me why people were uncomfortable around those with physically apparent disabilities because it was a totally foreign concept to me. As someone with an invisible disability it's a really interesting topic of discussion. I'm all about advocacy for any kind of disability, so it's nice to see a video like this. Thank you.

[@beepb00p78]

I remember when I was a kid, I never even noticed when someone had a physical disability. My father is a doctor so I was explained different conditions or disabilities when I asked for an explanation. It wasn't a taboo topic, a lot of my dad's patients are disabled. But when I started going to school I learned from both students and teachers (indirectly but still) that disabilities were not normal and something to be disgusted by. So I started becoming almost painfully aware anytime I talked to someone who was physically disabled. I could never be disgusted. That was something that I could never get myself to do. As a social outcast and someone who'd been called wierd my entire life I always felt a sort of connected to these people. Turns out I'm autistic and can very much relate to what it's like being looked at in a certain way and generally being villainized. Anyways. Kids don't actually have that messed up view of people with disabilities. They may be curious, sure, but not malicious. And I think that most people don't mean to be malicious but it's so tightly knitted into the webs of our society that the first unconscious reaction someone will have may be a negative one. Which, hot take, is really shitty. And, even hotter take, we need to undo that.

[@qballextraction]

I started reading a book a few years back and in the first chapter they were describing a man talking to the female lead. Immediately they went in about his bad teeth and his ugly facial features and it hit me how we are suppose to instantly dislike and distrust this man simply because of this. Really hit me about how f-cked up that is and now seeing it in books takes me out of it.

[@CorruptedSave]

I know we talked about this before, and you said how you wanted to keep the video focused on horror, but I did want to mention at least in the comments that I find this to be the thing in a lot of other genres. I think as a teen I first noticed it in the James Bond movies, where the hero is always dapper looking and the villain is usually disfigured in some way. At the very least not conventionally attractive. Only the female villains get to be attractive, so they can be femme fatales. But also like in comedy movies, if one of the characters has to go on a date or do something sexual with someone who is not very attractive, it's supposed to be a funny situation. When I was a kid, I had pretty bad acne. And I very much remembered that the "horrible zit" trope happened quite frequently, and could be the focus of entire episodes of a sitcom. I feel like I understood what was going on and I'd like to think it didn't harm me very much, but who knows? Who knows how many self-esteem problems are created by the media we consume, and what feels like normal is actually just a subtle crappier reality that we don't notice is worse than it could be as a direct result of all these pernicious messages about the worth of people.

[@pimscrypt]

Another example of media harming the self-esteem of teens would be all the instances of "omg that dude is wearing a dress haha!". I'm positive that if there was less transphobic crap like that, a lot of people would probably dare to come out sooner. Our at least not suffer from internalized transphobia.

[@joaoalbuquerque3171]

Really liked the video. And I'm surprised I had never seen no one touch this subject before, even though it was something that was always lingering in the back of my head. I think the closest thing I watched was the In Praise of Shadows's 'Basket Case' review. Another thing that stood out for me was the part when you talk about movies where evil is "sneaking" by. Really goes to highlight how the opposite is also true, where we usually associate "normal" or good-looking people with being good or virtuous.

[@gmg9010]

As someone who was born with spina bifida I feel left out of a lot things that other people do and with the form of spina bifida I have you can’t really see anything wrong with me except for my sown up back and my crutches along with my splints

[@fhernandoramirez623]

You're so freaking cool, I first watched your fnaf 4 essay and I have binged and anticipatedly waited for any new video of yours, every upload you've done is just fantastically insightful and I hope you've been super safe and mentally well throughout this time!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much, that is very kind of you to write! I hope you're equally safe and well!

[@shanior2837]

I think the character of Zuko from ATLA is a pretty interesting subversion of the trop of the villain with the burned face. The scar is extremely symbolic and keeps changing its meaning as the story and character change. He starts of as an angry, dangerous, burned villan where the scar is a source of shame. But very shortly after we get his backstory, and the scar in now tragic and seems to be symbolic of his destruction by trauma and abuse. How a kind kid was corrupted, just like his face. But the story keeps going. The scar is than used in the plot by the character to pretend to be a victim of the fire nation. And slowly both character and audience realize that this is not a pretend - he was. And by the end the scar loses most of it's power over the different characters, it's symbolic of the traumas of the past and like them it will never go away. It's always there (even misrepresented by the media!) But it's no longer a defining feature. Zuko is probably the best example of a character with a face deformity I can think of. Honestly that show is so well written

[@vallum12100]

I think what wasn't talked about enough is how, in film, you want visual short-hands to compound themes and arcs of characters. Visually making an antagonist 'ugly' plays on the ideas you talked about in the beginning, playing on our psychological instincts in fearing what is othered. Horror plays with the many levels of Villain Coding, and how defying those expectations are some of the highlights a film can nail. With how much tropes are subverted by the highest of this genre of media, I would have hoped for more examples that could steer people in such a way. Its why many of us who struggled growing up being others and disabled identified with Villains and Horror movie monsters because we finally have, on some level, a moniker we can identify with and feel good about getting any semblance of representation with good actors. A film that plays with surface level horror and those themes is Nightbreed and would love your thoughts on how that films plays with expectations of appearances in a proactive way. Though other youtubers have better hit on the visual shorthand of the film plays better into the subdue themes of sexuality struggle, I think in a topic like this, it's important to find and speak on examples of subverting this trope in a healthy way. The sequels to basket case can get so close to hitting this as well, and if not for trying to being played in the lens of gross out horror, would be interesting in just being able to subvert the tropes and ideas of villain coding. Even a section of how good intentions of trying to give better representation of those who are othered for physical appearances can go wrong and do worse job than not trying at all, overall worsens the message than films you've mention in your video, (re: disney's hunchback of notre dame as one that tried and failed). - written by 'post low functional' autistic large man who now specializes in ASD research

[@AnonymousWolfie]

A very well constructed video- I have to say, I’m enjoying just about everything you’ve produced ever since I subscribed. In terms of the subject matter- I think a very similar thing can be said about how horror treats people with mental illness, as well. You can even use Freddy Krueger as an example there- in his revealed origin as the son of a nun who was locked in a prison of the criminally insane, making him “the son of a thousand madmen”, which, yikes. I wouldn’t say it is hypocritical to still like these movies, though, and any one example can be dissected and excused. It’s much more about how these things are trends, that they’re so common and that there are so many examples of it. It would take change on a more massive scale than just changing one character or one movie. It is change that is possible, though, and talking openly about it is the first push towards that change. Continuing to be critical of the media we consume and discussing it, letting voices be heard. I hope more people continue making content like this as well and boost the conversation.

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you very much!

[@nopizzawithoutpineapple]

Ayy stopping by because of a shoutout in the new In Praise of Shadows vid. Although I do disagree with your readings of the depictions in the Ari Aster movies, I think this is a really good essay and I'll definitely sub and check out your other stuff :)

[@lesliew8362]

Thanks for making this thoughtful and compationate video. I am not a horror fan and I'll probably never watch a horror movie by myself, but I agree that horror shouldn't be about just putting "scary" things on display for the sake of shocking the audience. From my very limited time with horror films, I think my favorite part is how fear inevitably brings out the worst part of human nature, but every now and then, the good part still shines through. Maybe that's cheesy, but if I'm honest, I feel humanity is already capable of the most horrorfying stuff, and it's usually done by those who look exactly like us.

[@saotiago]

amazing video! as a trans person myself, i've always second guessed what was considered normal and attractive -- mostly because i knew I didn't fit in it. so i had to find good reference somewhere else. and horror is both a good genre in which we see the unusual being celebrated..... while being the worst as well when it comes to demonizing and punishing the different. really vibed with the way you discussed this tightrope here. Also, dear god, to this day it baffles me that Carel Struycken, who is a living legend with things like twin peaks and addam's family in his resume, still sometimes has to accept gigs in which the character he plays are deemed scary or strange and sometimes worse -- due to his acromegaly. your video reminded me instantly of him.

[@pimscrypt]

It is kind of ironic really, that the genre that perhaps is the best at demonizing certain people is also one of the best at celebrating them (just thinking about Rocky Horror Picture Show, for example). And yeah, he’s a really good actor who should be given WAY more opportunities than that!

[@NanaShaCrash]

In addition to physical disabilities that are readily physically obvious, you also have the situation where people have "invisible" disabilities that are constantly told that they "brought on" their disability upon themselves. Anything from lupus to diabetes to neurodivergency, people are told constantly that they get sick because they 'brought it upon themselves' or told that they "don't look sick" and therefore should be able to function at the level that everyone else can function without receiving help even if they need it. And regardless of how the person has become disabled, I see a worrying trend where that person is often assumed to be less intelligent, fun to be around or simply that it would be "awkward" to spend time with them so they get left out. I have some pretty large and prominent visible scars because of an accident as a young adult, and for years, I worried about the way that others perceived me. I still do, but it is much harder while in school. I often do love "monsters who are more human than the humans" stories, and sadly horror is one of the only places where you can sometimes find that (Guillermo Del Toro films tend to be in this genre to some extent, but even these can be problematic). I think that there is a place for evil ugliness, as there is an argument that being cruel and horrible can twist people, similar to the Roald Dahl book about the horrible wife and husband. I've also befriended a number of people who have facial, bodily, and intellectual disabilities, and they're people with just as much complexities as the rest of us. There are people who are racist and sexist who also have Downs syndrome. There are people who are kind and courageous who were born with congenital issues to their arms or faces. People are complicated, and even their disability doesn't turn them into either an automatic saint or a villain. What we really need are more heroic and positive portrayals of people who have congenital deformities and disabilities. Yes, it's good if we can get actual disabled folks to act in things, but I think almost more important is the research and writing being informed by real-world experiences. After all, if you watched John Wick 3, you know that Keanu Reeves is not that terrible of an actor, but if the script sucks and looks like it was written by a 14 year old with a self-insert OC, then that's what it's going to come across like to the audience.

[@HowToPnP]

Have you ever seen Fantasy? The whole "ugly = bad" (also racial undertones) is basically a core concept of the fantasy genre. Heroes are rugged and muscular, "good races" are beautiful and "evil" is ugly. Really lazy when you thing about it.

[@erosheartache2398]

I am *so* glad that In Praise of Shadows recommended this channel! Your videos are wonderful! 💟

[@instinctivelychelsea2905]

Here from in praise of shadows recommendation, happy to subscribe , love this video can't wait to binge watch !!!

[@Trulsrohkig]

Came here from In Praise of Shadows and after the first sentence (you know, the Shapiro-joke) I knew I'd stumbled upon gold! An impressive take on "ugliness" in horror. Will use at some point in class.

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you, that's so kind! I feel honored! What type of class?

[@CthulhusBFF2]

In Praise Of Shadows sent me and I like the cut of your jib :) Hope more ppl find your channel

[@ProfessorFlowers]

Yet another amazing video! This is something that's really bothered me with Lord of the Rings. In LOTR, If someone or something, such as a place, was evil, it would usually be "ugly", For example Mirkwood, orcs, goblins, Mordor, etc. And unfortunately, there was no further explanation beyond this "ugliness". This really bothered me with the movies, because there aren't any black people, however the orcs, who are evil, literally have black skin. On the other hand, all the people who are beautiful, thus good, have snow white skin. This kind of representation makes it laughable to see a black person as someone who is good. I love LOTR, which makes it hurt more that I couldn't really picture myself existing in that world without being an evil or somehow "perverted" person based on my appearance. I think talking about how we equate ugliness to evil is really important to talk about. Growing up, I was told that black people are ugly, and also bad. I think these two ideas, ugly and bad, go hand in hand, as pointed out in this video. I had parents express to their kids that they didn't want their kids hanging out with me because I'm black. There was a sense of disgust and fear around who I was. This is of course racially based. But the racism towards black people, is also wrapped up in portraying black people as morally corrupt, and also ugly. I really really liked how you talked about how actors with fake scars don't have to face the consequences of the how they're representing people who simply can't take off a scar mask. I really think that it's important for marginalized groups to have the power to represent themselves, and control their own narrative. This is a really great and thoughtful video!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much!

[@godzillamaster34]

A pretty decent burn victim is Harry in Spider-Man 3.

[@pimscrypt]

That's a very interesting way of phrasing it, but I do agree that Harry was treated better than (for example) Freddy Kreuger.

[@godzillamaster34]

@@pimscrypt I just read how I typed that and can’t stop laughing 😂

[@Sh1ranu1]

In Praise of Shadows gave you a shoutout when talking about Hills Have Eyes so I came over and I definitely agree with a lot of what ur saying. I for one would like to see more diversity in the heroes, something to say that people with genetic anomalies aren’t exclusively or villain roles

[@tvgamerstan6180]

As much as I love The Hills Have Eyes and Wrong Turn, I can kind of see why they won't give us any sequels now. It'll be too problematic in this day & age. Wrong Turn did get a remake in 2021, but instead of them bringing back the inbred mutant cannibals, they gave us a cult group. It was just stupid to me. It's not even a Wrong Turn movie at this point lol.

[@sahelhappenstance8992]

great video and great points, but the pronunciation of 'congenital' is driving me crazy lol. that aside, its great to see someone addressing this, especially with regards to midsommar and hereditary because of just how subtle and insidious it is in those films. if you aren't already conscious of this kind of thing its very easy to miss

[@pimscrypt]

Yeah I learned that I pronounced it wrong the hard way haha! It won’t happen again, that’s for sure.

[@jenstarling1080]

Just found your channel through In Praise of Shadows and love it! Thank you for such nuanced and compassionate break downs of a genre that has amazing potential

[@starrsmith3810]

For real, I brought up at one point that Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender was one of the few characters with facial scars that wasn’t vilified. I still mean that. The villain instead is the person who did that to him when he was only 13

[@jjthepikazard212]

i haven't seen one of yr videos in a while. i'm glad i'm back. great video

[@CrimsonValley]

This was a great listen, it's a topic I've often thought around myself and i was actually really nice to hear your thoughts but also read all the comments with input from so many people. Keep up the excellent work :D

[@uuuueber]

really missed out by not titling this Horror has an "Ugly" Problem. good video tho

[@daannieuwenhuis6722]

I have no idea why this is one of my comfort videos but here I am watching it for the 4th or 5th time, great points and love your channel

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much! 💜 It makes me very happy that this or any of my videos can be comfort videos for someone!

[@JMD501]

Great video, super interesting. I think all of us are, to some degree, afraid of what we don't understand and is different. But using characters with actual medical conditions is inconsiderate and gross.

[@bloodmooncomics2249]

In Praise of Shadows is right. This is a good channel that deserves more love. Looks like after this video is fully done I am going to start watching other videos from this channel (I do that to a lot of channels I subscribe to).

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much! I hope enjoy the rest of the channel just as much!

[@walaxel926]

just found your channel through twitter, such a GOOD video!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you liked it!

[@shifty220]

Superb video that needs far more views! Introduced to your channel by "In Praise of Shadows", and after watching this, liked, subscribed and making my way through your back catalogue, great stuff!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much! I'm glad that you like my stuff, and I hope you'll enjoy my future projects just as much!

[@spiderstheythem]

we found your channel through in praise of shadows. really love your videos!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you! I'm glad you like them!

[@minitumen]

Even when the reviews kept praising Hereditary when it first came out, I actually skipped it, because I thought it was just about this this evil, supernatural, "deformed" child, and I actually felt kind of insulted. I've seen it since, and, while it was not the case, it wasn't that far off

[@pimscrypt]

I honestly wasn’t a big fan of the film in general. Maybe I was just expecting more because of the hype, but barley left an impact on me. Apart from having that very questionable representation.

[@PGMR30]

I don't think it's obviously stated in the film, but from my understanding of the lore, the child was born deformed because it was used to trap the demon (by the grandmother and her weird cult), which somehow makes it even worse imo.

[@blankslate7315]

Another film that features someone with a condition that makes them look different that was hired to play a villain is Baskin, I'm just bringing it up, since it wasn't mentioned in the video. I suppose movies like Deadpool and Mask (which is about Rocky Dennis) as well as The Elephant Man would be seen as movies with more positive portrayals of characters/people who don't have what we would call a normative appearance, either way this was an interesting topic that I don't think is covered very often and definitely needs more attention, not simply in regards to horror films, but more broadly as well. I only recently discovered your channel (I can across the low polygon horror video) and I definitely plan to keep watching. You just got a new subscriber. Thanks for the great videos, keep up the great work Pim.

[@RykerJones28]

I could never really figure out what it was about the ramake of Wrong Turn that made me prefer it to the original, which was a bit of a favourite back when I first started warching horror in my early to mid teens. And I think this might actually be it. That from memory, there isn't any of the tired use of disabled villains. I think Midsomer would have still be as impactful without the girl who was a victim of inbreeding entirely. I love Hereditary. It's an excellent film that deals with it's themes of grief and familial trauma incredibly well. BUT it's marketing really leaned into painting the daughter as the villain. Every trailer I saw implied heavily that it was going to be a horror movie about a creepy kid doing creepy things and this initially put me off watching it ever. It was only after reviews started coming in and it was made a little more clear that she wasn't the villain at all that I gave it a fair watch and it blew me away. If it had been marketed correctly, I might have even dragged my partner to see it in the cinema.

[@mememanmason9266]

I didn't realize why I always thought I was a bad person until this video made me realize that it was because of the representation in media basically telling me I'm a bad person. Thank you, I can't really put into words how important this video is

[@pimscrypt]

I’m glad it had such an impact on you. Bless you! 💜

[@augustblade6167]

Love your work and your look, your passion shows in both. This video is excellent 👍

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!

[@augustblade6167]

You're welcome! I'm working on a site idea that may help you and other content creators out who clearly have talent but aren't getting the views and subs they deserve. I'll let you know soon when I have something specific for you, and if you have time, let me know what you think.

[@MrRaivokasMagma]

I have CP, that you wouldn't see unless I told you. I get bit mixed feels, when on one hand, I'm part of the group that "people should be scared". But then again I'm relatively normal, that I get scared of people I'm part of.....

[@A-with-the-J]

Commenting on all your videos cause apparently the algorithm likes engagement and WOW are you a hidden gem

[@thechaz83]

Ugliness used as a symbol or catalyst for horror is relied on too much, especially in today’s hollow and superficial society. Dead, decaying bodies (example Pet Semetary), or features marred by physical outside forces (The Burning, many older films ) certainly have reasons to exist: revenge, consequences for certain actions. These films make you think. Imagine burying a beloved pet, or saying farewell to a loved one as their casket lowers into the ground. The ideas of decomposition, buried alive (Poe films are other great examples of intelligent horror), knowing your pet or loved one is free of pain while you wrestle with the idea a ground exists which banishes death, all the million questions you might ask yourself while alone (loneliness is another theme technology is erasing. However, our reaction to it will never go away. It’ll merely be 10x worse when our cellphones die); all of these thoughts are truly frightening. They might sound silly now, especially if you’re reading this message surrounded by friends and artificial life. But strip all that away then reality might change its hue. H.P. Lovecraft, the king of cosmic horror, always championed atmosphere. This is what made his stories so special, and why translating them to film is a difficult undertaking. Today people who see pictures of him believe he’s morbid because of his unusually gaunt jaw. People who actually knew him say he was one of the most warm and caring people to walk the earth. So see, our over reliance on the surface reflects our values, imagination, and intelligence. If it doesn’t have a reason for being, besides merely its differences from current norms, it reflects more than bad art. It reflects us, society. And I don’t wish to be part of a society like this.

[@Nintaboy]

In praise of Shadows sent me here. Amazing video!

[@LethallxVanity]

ASMR where you just say the word “Midsommar” over and over. That’s my idea for your next video. I fucking love how you say that word lmao

[@ianstratton]

This video could not be any worse of a time to have a patron named "Rocky Dennis".

[@Nkanyiso_K]

Gonna be honest, when I saw Hereditary I thought the sister was an innocent character who just had trouble interacting with the world how others wanted her to & it felt like instead of her brother malificent forces were trying to corrupt her. I haven't seen Midsommar so I can't speak on that.

[@circleoffinnishjerks4982]

When I finally got around to watching Hereditary, it didn't even register to me that she had some sort of condition. She just looks like any average child to me.

[@roxiep2010]

The trope of villains with facial scars was actually started because of Nazis. Many Nazi officers famously had dueling scars (from fencing). It was regarded as a badge of honor and even a status symbol, since it meant they had enough wealth to go to a school with a fencing program. Naturally, when media began adapting and drawing inspiration from Nazis the facial scars quickly became part of an iconic look for villains. There's plenty of heroes with facial scars so it balances out a bit better than most of the other examples in this video.

[@retu3510]

Great video thanks! Honestly the first fictional characters with burn scars in their faces I will think about is Hanako from Katawa Shoujo and Balalaika from Black Lagoon. So I tend to really love fictional characters with burn scars. :) Btw: Midsommar being about fascists flew over my head. I was emotinaly very unstable at the time and could really feel the sense of belonging the cult put into the main character. It sometimes scares me how uncritical and blind my interpretations sometimes are.

[@chrisdiokno5600]

Hanako from Katawa Shoujo is one character with facial burns

[@LiterallyCanada666]

Coming here from in praise of shadows, I love this video

[@sad_doggo2504]

As far as dream monsters go, I'd be more captivated by a monster with a blend of conventionally attractive and frightening characteristics. Like for instance, someone with sharp, jagged teeth, but also beautiful, seductive eyes. And like, writers, give them a reason for their characteristics other than 'wow ugly,' come on, you have so much creative license here, USE it!

[@CuriousInsanity413]

Came here from In Praise of Shadows' recommendation, and it was clearly well deserved.

[@bloodknightazodrac9224]

15:40 irl example of sneaky evil/ inner ugliness is tedd bundy, despicable monster but because he's handsome Ladies still fondle over him Just wondering ur thoughts on that one 🤔?

[@Fiver565]

I feel like Under the Skin deals with deformity in an interesting way in that the alien can’t tell the difference between normal looking and “abnormal” people it was oddly touching

[@pimscrypt]

I've told my self to watch that film *so* many times, but I still haven't. Now I'm really interested in changing that!

[@Fiver565]

@@pimscrypt it is more abstract in terms of its themes and story but I liked it.

[@JoeFinsternis]

I was actually bothered when I watched The Cleaning Lady, because that film follows a classically beautiful woman who befriends a cleaning lady who is physically deformed, and she ends up being punished for it. It sends out a problematic message.

[@lucaslaurentino2843]

Thank you so much for that video! o hated the first wrong turn movie, and part of the reason was exaclty this portrayal of poverty and disabilities as evil, and, for me, as a strong force, fueled by demonic energy. The bad guys having disabilities and being almost invulnerable is the exaclty opposite of real life. The message is something like "the poor and miserable can take some punches"

[@drooom2925]

If I have to defend anything it's probably 'normal' people using make up to come up disfigured or scarred. While I do agree it is shitty some groups get represented by people who share none of the experiences, I feel certain deformities that are so rare in the first place kind of justify needing to use special effects in that way. While deformed actors do face some discrimination, it's still incredibly hard to find someone talented enough, assuming you can even find someone with that physical trait that can even act. I'm not saying they can't, but the amount of people in the world that do possess it likely don't pursue that profession in the first place.

[@nodieza]

I actually started watching SBSK videos to help get over this negative conditioning that horror movies have put me through. Being exposed to people with bodily differences, just existing as humans, has really helped me mentally normalize it and increased my capacity for empathy. I still find myself hesitating to click on some thumbnails so I know I still have some ways to go.

[@SirLaguna]

Dale & Tucker vs. Evil

[@pimscrypt]

I rewatched that film fairly recently and yeah... I really didn't realize how problematic the end reveal was the first time around. Like, the film doesn't just say that physical anomalies equals evil - it basically promotes eugenics??

[@STAUNCHTV]

In praise of Shadows sent me here

[@chrisbieske8117]

Something that goes along with this is movie villains (or people in general) having mental disabilities or mental health issues. Like they make bipolar or schizophrenic people violent and crazy or fellow autistics Really smart.

[@arepa13]

Amazing video keep up the great work thank you

[@reignforrest4116]

I wish media portrayed villains as 'the average Joe', as you called him haha, because its scarier that the evil looks human. That it could be anyone and you couldn't tell who it is. I hate the way most media uses the equivalent of flashing lights and red arrows on who the enemy is. Like they need to spell it out to us. A physical way to inform the audience of who the baddie is. Scars, burns, disabilities, etc. Things so many people actually have and impacts their daily life. And these stereotypes only aid in the harmful way people look at us, sometimes making our lives even harder than most just because we're different. To me, a good villain is someone who doesn't look like a monster, but acts like one. The best kind of bad guys are the ones who look any face in a crowd, hiding amongst us, right in front of our eyes. It's why I like psychological thrillers more, they tend have more physically present, human or human like appearance.

[@alyxg2764]

I think original the hills have eyes handled it well with pluto being probably the smartest and most threatening of the family (that is totally in the right) and basket case handled it well with them explicitly trying to make characters that don’t represent real birth defects

[@lifeinthevoid1595]

Damn was always a big Wrong Turn and other horror fan, but just consuming without thought and you have just made me go whoah holup! Have only just discovered channel thru Jessie Gender recommendation and loving how you challenge brain to get it thinking and questioning the how and why of its current state 🙂

[@cristalido3640]

9:32 out of curiosity, what's the name of that movie? This was an interesting video, I haven't thought about the implications of ugliness in horror before.

[@pimscrypt]

That would be Basket Case!

[@akamataachan5097]

In "pay it forwards" i'm pretty sure one of the main character have burn scars on his face. In "the craft " one of the girls have burns on her back.

[@renaigh]

this goes to show how brilliant Zuko is.

[@pimscrypt]

YES!

[@renaigh]

@@pimscrypt Azula too.

[@BasementDweller_]

I’ve never thought about this before.

[@purplephoenix6554]

Hello, the In Praise of Shadow youtube channel mentioned your channel.

[@FrokenKeke]

Othering, not even once.

[@AntheanCeilliers]

YOU ARE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT

[@kgamzz26]

I don't think that ANY of actors in hereditary look like the conventional horror protagonist.

[@TheActualCathal]

good video, came here from In Praise of Shadows

[@PixelaDay]

Great vid as always! Have some engagement

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you Kat!!

[@justindixon1586]

Honestly when you think of it the character that look plain or gorgeous are more scary. Red from us and her cold eyes and demeanor or the rubber man from ahs solid black look the air characters like that carry are way scarier then some demonized face the best example of simple horror

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

8:09 hey Zuko is pretty famous too!

[@pimscrypt]

I don't think he's as well known as Freddy Krueger exactly, but Zuko is a pretty good example of a character who's burn scars don't feel like they're ment to dehumanize him. Sure, he's the villian at first, but his appearance remains the same once he switches sides. It was never the scars that made him evil. I think that's neat!

[@fafo867]

ableism is probably the most complex thing to call out. Everyone deserves dignity regardless of their conditions or intrinsic identity but the strawmen around ableism are driving me soooo fuckin nuts i cant even argue cuz i instinctively want to save my braincells

[@KanonHara]

Came here from In Praise of Shadows

[@raynwolfsbane2084]

Insightful analysis

[@notsoalex]

This is a great video!

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you!

[@ІлляВетров-й2д]

Jesus, I found several decent video essayists from a silly Alan Wake dance video. Lol

[@pimscrypt]

Glad you like my work, and especially that you found it thanks to Kat’s brilliant video haha!

[@1061610]

thank you！

[@metatrontumultum1860]

I think you misrepresented Texas Chainsaw Massacre massively by throwing them in with Wrong Turn and The Hills Have Eyes. The family in Texas Chainsaw (which isn't incestuous btw) is a perversion of the conservative American image as protest against the blindness towards social ills necessary to view family like that in the first place. Also, that film is mostly about the consequences of the US gas crisis that left whole regions desolate. People lost all that made up what we think of as normal society because fly-over-zone means the-government-abandoned-you-zone. It also has themes of the mental health effects of working on the killing floor of a slaughterhouse for way too long, which wasn't even something that was studied all that much at the time. The people in TCM don't have birth defects, they have been broken by neglect. There is no "fuck poor people" here. I know this video is a year old, but should you read this, I'd recommend thinking over what that great movie actually has to say.

[@pimscrypt]

I absolutely see your point, and I appreciate it. I also want to clarify that I actually like Texas Chainsaw, especially compared to the other films I mentioned. However, even if there are more progressive readings you can make of it, I think it's fairly undeniable that it also plays into the same stereotype of "the further out in the country you get, the more dangerous and deranged are the people" as Wrong Turn, The Hills Have Eyes, and the like. In this case I don't believe that one aspect, or rather one interpretation of it, negates the other.

[@rainingnights1409]

Good video except for the last sentence. Horror is not about overcoming fear, horror is NEVER about overcoming the threat. It may be about uncovering it, about surviving it, maybe even about trying to understand it, but no good horror story ends with the "hero" overcoming the threat. Besides that, its all well and good but then what if a filmmaker wanted to ellicit disgust in the viewer? What if I wanted to repulse the viewer? And even then, whats the solution to this problem? "Dont make ugly villains" good, great, amazing but what if I want to have a monster in my movie? Maybe then horror should just not exist so it won't offend anyone! Even if you can point out a "problem" you cant make up a solution for it because there is no solution, if anyone creates anything for audiences over the ages of 8, at some point it will be offensive to someone or point negatively at someone, if you're oh so inclined to find just who it might offend now!

[@pimscrypt]

I feel like saying that horror is “NEVER about overcoming the threat” completely disregards one of the main characteristics of the final girl trope. Like, this is literally how the first Nightmare on Elm Street ends, with Nancy taking away Freddy’s power by being brave enough to turn her back on him. The latest couple of Halloween films are about overcoming generational trauma. The trilogy is obviously not finished yet, but that’s clearly one of the most crucial themes. Overcoming is as synonymous with the slasher genre as the masked killer is. I also find it a hugely reductive to say that there is no solution because some people will always be offended. Even if that is the case, is that reason enough to not even try to make things better? I don’t think so. There are plenty of ways of eliciting disgust in an audience, that doesn’t include punching down on people. There’s plenty of body horror (like the Saw franchise, The Fly or Society) which frames the forced destruction of the body as the horrifying part and not the scars the victims might have to live with.

[@makeshiftmasquerade]

I think there is a lot to be said about how even disabled people who are able to hide their differences are demonized as well in media. As an autistic woman, I’ve quietly observed the controversy of “masking privilege” in the community, which is essentially the idea that people who can blend in easier with neurotypicals are privileged in that sense and suffer less discrimination. I always understood the root of the idea, but I think people forget how much humans are hypervigilant in finding even the most minute of differences to react to. The whole comparison of autistic people to robots in media is long standing, and we are often portrayed, while looking “normal enough” as having some piece of ourselves, no, our humanity, missing. This is regardless of how much we try in vain to play the part of a “normal” person. While I have immense empathy for those with more obvious disabilities, “invisible” disabilities provoke another horror trope that is seeing much more spotlight recently: the uncanny valley. People are starting to rightfully call out media for making fun of obvious deformities and disabilities, but the invisible ones have gotten a revamp of stigma in my opinion, especially in the genre of horror. Look at the modern horror scene, especially the analog horror genre focusing on making things just ever so slightly “off”. Look at the rise in the use of uncanniness rather than gore to get scares. Look at how Columbine and other tragedies have made the quiet kid in your highschool class out to be a monster in disguise. Think of it this way, what’s scarier to you? What sets off more alarm bells? Freddy Kreuger, or that person that looks totally normal but still isn’t quite “right”? We naturally have sensors for this stuff, and our brains are wired to sense threats, but that’s no excuse to be horrible to other people… Period.

[@GooeyGremlin]

Instantly subscribed.

[@pimscrypt]

Thank you!

[@I.____.....__...__]

- /kon-jen-shul/ 😬 * /kon-gen-it-al/ - 6:24 A birthmark like that isn't obviously a birthmark, it could be from an accident. Most people don't mind if people ask about their lives, even about bad things that have happened to them, so it's not insensitive to ask about it, so long as it's not pressed once she explains she was born like that (because at that point, there's not much more _to_ discuss about it, except maybe if you're interested in the biological/genetic aspect, but she probably can't help with that anyway 🤷). - 7:07 I distinctly remember we would think of Freddy Kruger as having a "pizza face" (unrelated to the term being used for kids with pimples), so I can't help but wonder if that was our own interpretation or if we had heard about the origin story. 🤔 - 7:20 Freddy is definitely one of the best horror-movie villains, he has a lot of personality. Pinhead too. - 7:25 Robert Englund is so fun, he's such a nice guy and loves his job and his character. Doug Bradly embraces his too. - 8:32 You can't blame the movies for what _some_ pricks do. Sure, media has influence, but ultimately, it's the _people_ that do the bad stuff. You can't blame video-games because the rare person attacks their school. As with all things, there's a balance that has to be maintained, but most of the blame falls on the actual perpetrators, like how a woman walking around naked in a bad neighborhood can't be surprised if she gets assaulted, but the guy that did it is _the one who did it._ - 8:55 The people who do bad stuff don't need a reason or motivation, they'll do it anyway. People have been doing bad stuff _looong_ before movies or video-games or even books existed. Conversely, _billions_ of people watch movies and play games and listen to music and read books without doing bad stuff. There's no point in condemning media for rare psychos. - 10:26 The mountain-men are very very inbred. - 11:23 Henry Rollins is fun. - 13:23 Wait, so you're saying that actors _ACTED‽_ 😲 - 14:49 Inoffensive horror is like Jehovah's Witnesses condemning Harry Potter because it's fiction that's about "witchcraft" which is Devil stuff which is bad m'kay? and you should never see or think about it and pretend it doesn't exist. m'kay? - 15:35 Exactly, there are plenty of villains who are not ugly, even ones who are specifically attractive and seductive. - 15:48 _"The greatest trick the devil pulled was to convince people he didn't exist."_ - 15:55 So… the element of surprise is a _good_ strategy? Who'd've thunk it? The devil be a clever >9000 IQ boi. - 16:55 I've felt uncomfortable judging people based on stuff they didn't choose a while ago. Age'll do that do ya. 🤷 - 17:53 Sure, but a the same time, certain groups shouldn't be permanently excluded from being bad guys in fiction, that's discrimination. 🤦

[@pimscrypt]

You should’ve just made a response video.

[@onesidedlovedanu4127]

16:47 Ical my bestie bitch as a joke so i think its ok to say mean things so easily

[@jameshughes525]

Is this guy wearing lipstick? Or does he just have super red lips?

[@domingosjunior6805]

I respectfull disagre...Horror dont need to be just bneautiful people that dont look treatning...theres space for Ugly characters like Freddy and the Hillikers brothers, but the Hereditary case is pretty fucked up

[@callumbyrne4263]

Comment for engagement

[@dopytheangel]

interesting.