Bad Diag? Bad Repair? Bad PARTS?? (Yamaha Battery Charging Problems)

My neighbor brought his 1980 Yamaha XS650 motorcycle over to diagnose a charging problem. He already fired a rectifier/regulator and alternator brushes at it, which obviously didn't fix anything.
A simple diag turns into a fiasco with 2 follow-up visits for the SAME PROBLEM!!
How would you handle this case in your shop?
ASTRO AI DC AMP CLAMP:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08MTCMWLB?...
ASTRO DVOM:
www.amazon.com/dp/B07FDBW1PT?...
Enjoy!
Ivan

[@1fastintegra]

“Don’t throw your old parts away until you know it’s fixed” That is absolutely true! Best advice in automotive/ motorcycle repair!!!!

[@KarateSensei71]

I learned to never throw away old parts from my GrandDad and my Father. Of course, after they both passed, now I have a shed full of old parts that do not fit anything I own......золотая жила.

[@chilee6994]

Is what it is,,, ya right.. not my favourite saying.. Koodos to you..

[@aurthorthing7403]

This is what I run into half the time when I get "new" parts. NEVER throw your old parts away.

[@deepsquat600]

Back in the days when we still have points and condensers this save me two separate times.. Both times had to go back to square one.. Everything worked.. replace the points everything worked replace the condenser nothing worked... Trust me the first time this occurred that I was 16 years old it was hell on Wheels figuring out what was wrong... After that I never replace the condenser again figuring it's a none wear item😁

[@mattbrown5511]

When I had my XS650, I had 4 "parts" bikes. Even at that time (early 2000s) it was starting to become difficult to get the OEM replacement parts. I did find out that the pick-up and rotor have to match year to year. Mixing the parts across years will cause a no start condition. Something for you and your friend to file away for future knowledge. Great diag as always. Good to know your friend's bike is running.

[@fluffyblue4006]

The shorted coil fried the regulator. The fried regulator fried the replacement coil to open. After replacing both, it started working again. No mystery there. But the sorry state of parts suppliers is really worrying. So you can get remanufactured parts that are still broken, you can get aftermarket parts that are not in spec or very low quality, or OEM parts where only the packaging is OEM. So, when buying parts, you basically need to bring test equipment to the store. Or place your bets online.

[@Garth2011]

This eBay rotor simply didn't get enough pre-inspection to determine if it is the correct part. That's where some experience becomes valuable.

[@adotintheshark4848]

best to replace stator and regulator together when you're dealing with alternator repairs

[@htownblue11]

Crazy that two “new” parts failed. I’ve had a single new part fail, but multiple failures is more rare but thank goodness Ivan is a pro and gets to the bottom of the real issues. One thing I learned from Ivan is NEVER throw away old parts until the repair is complete.

[@agmc4me]

Ivan called junk after market parts being a problem quite a while ago. Now you have to watch out for counterfeit items. Another great job Ivan.

[@r.weaver3769]

"Don't throw parts away" good advise for most anything. Good job Ivan. Love these old bikes.

[@volvo09]

I had a friend throw all the OEM ignition coils away after the parts store sold her all of them. The replacements kept failing every few months. Junk yard to the rescue for used OEM.

[@keltecshooter]

In my spare time I do a lot of classic twin Honda work and have 5 bikes of my own. Fuel system and electric parts from the aftermarket are just awful. I end up buying a lot from Japan and Thailand where new OEM parts are more plentiful. Id rather get a good used part before anything aftermarket new . Excellent video BTW !

[@jtjones4727]

I've noticed some parts for 60's and 70's Honda's, often times I can only find them in other countries, Thailand is one such place. I was helping a buddy restore a 1965 Honda Super 90, and a lot of the parts could only be found overseas. I even found some parts that were new old stock OEM Honda parts.

[@bernardaflores1720]

Can you share some of the sources from oversees for bike parts????

[@Oo-IIII-oO]

Same with car parts. Stay away from the chinesium no name knock off sources

[@mr.padgettt]

I've had my XS for over a decade, unfortunately Mikes is sometimes a crapshoot, always has been. Thankfully guys like Hugh from Hugheshandbuilt carry OEM parts in addition to all the custom stuff he makes. I've always had great experience with Hugh for sourcing XS parts.

[@brandonmunoz6931]

Love the motorcycle vids. I used to have a motorcycle shop and I always hated it when customers brought their own parts because of stuff like this . Great job man!

[@JackTatum-yw2hr]

Lucky for him he has you for a neighbor. Great job here. And also like the yard sign in the background during your video wrap-up. Would have been nice. Thanks for these videos, they really keep us thinking.

[@chrissimmons9969]

I had an 80 Yamaha 650 Special. Loved that bike. It was my only mode of transportation for almost 2 years. Through Cincinnati winters and all…

[@michaeld9731]

My situation was very similar and my XS650 never let me down. I only had to deal with Atlanta winters, though, and thought they were bad enough! 😋

[@rodkennedy9800]

Wow, talk about bad luck. Can’t believe all these parts are junk…just goes to show that you probably have to test parts BEFORE fitting them! Only problem is most folks do not possess the knowledge and/or equipment to do so!!! 😮

[@MitzvosGolem1]

I had a 1978 xs650 Yamaha twin. Such a nice bike. All mechanics must unite and form a quality control organization that checks quality of aftermarket parts. Like O.L. CE etc.. This is a Crisis in the repair world. Excellent channel .

[@ykmalachi]

I absolutely love my old XS650. Such a versatile platform for building.

[@kerrylewis2581]

These bikes were everywhere when I was a kid and I still love them as much today as I did in the eighties (maybe more)

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Ivan. During your spot on explanation of this charging system, I "woke up" and said: "That sure looks like a "saturable reactor" set up" (also was called a "Mag-amp" I think. ) The Inductance of that control coil "changes, as the current through it changes." (thus the effective reactance/resistance changes) as the control coil is "saturated" with magnetic lines of force. As the coil is saturated, with magnetic lines of force, its inductance changes - which allows more current or less current through that control winding. It's just like you dialing in more or less resistance with your decade box. Maybe other followers of yours can give a better explanation. Loved the diag. Thanks.

[@Garth2011]

Us folks who are hanging onto older vehicles should remember one thing when servicing their vehicles. "Save the OEM parts" even if they are bad parts. There may be a day when those parts can be restored by someone in the future. You never know when a shop might start up doing rebuilds for older parts and if you have the original one, likely the only one they will rebuild, you could be in luck. We do this, we save all of the originals parts that came with the vehicle from the assembly line...those made in the USA on American cars of course.

[@sintacharming2772]

That bike brings back so many memories, I had the identical one. Purchased it when I was 17 in upstate New York. It was my only transportation and rode it nearly year round. Great video as always Ivan.

[@kevincampbell8298]

Interesting tid bit. My uncle was a high up engineer at Yamaha during those times. Designed built, tested for them as well as part of racing. Left and went solo. Ended up redesigning/modifying parts for bunch of manufactures as well as going to court for most of them. My mentor was wicked!

[@johnclamshellsp1969]

Always great videos Ivan. I owned a Yamaha XS-1100 back in the mid 1990's, best scooter I ever owned. Never a problem.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

XS11 is legend. Just read "XS11 Heaven" by Bob Jones... Fun stories 🙂

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Interesting circular interaction of bad parts! Good diagnosis, Ivan (particularly on spotting the missing embedded magnet for the coil pickup). I found the open field coil very odd, due to its wire gauge - not easy to break (I actually rewound the field coil from a Kawasaki 750, back in my younger days). Maybe this one had an embedded thermal fuse, that went off due to excess current.

[@suryaprihadi2258]

I love the bird chirping in the background Ivan. So soothing. Awesome ranch you have🎉

[@adotintheshark4848]

Great bike, the XS650..easy to ride and easy to repair..I've owned 3, the only thing with an externally excited alternator is, if your battery dies your bike will too. With a PM alternator, you can run the bike with a bad battery as it will continue to run off the always available alternator current.

[@robpeabo509]

That was most unfortunate for your customer! I agree with what you and other posters have said, a used OEM is better than a new aftermarket part - I don't mean OEM in an aftermarket box, I mean "real" aftermarket in an aftermarket box. If we continue to see crap aftermarket parts, we will see used OEM parts skyrocketing in price, pretty much because they will be a more desirable part.

[@petepeabody8905]

I could see the frustration in your voice by all the parts that did not work for one reason or another, but it all ended well for you and the customer. and a great learning experience. great that old parts were kept too. great job Ivan......Pete

[@wernerdanler2742]

In the mid to late 80s, I had an 82 650 turboseca. God, I loved that bike. Rode it like a maniac. They are just to much fun. 😂😅 It gave no problems till I decided I'd had enough fun and got rid of it. 😊

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's a cooool bike!!

[@redsalamander3007]

Sounds like the same problems I had with my old Honda CB650. It drove me crazy until I finally fixed it. You are much better !and have more patience than I wii ever have. Great work

[@watsisbuttndo829]

That sort of fiasco was a regular occurence on 80,so Suzuki bikes. Reg/rectifier would pop and burn out every bulb and the battery and possibly coils before the stator melted down. Big bills for some unfortunates.

[@sumduma55]

Speaking of don't throw your old parts away.... Several states made it a law due to some shady mechanics or garages- that you had to offer the parts replaced to the customer if they request them. This was so they could get a second opinion if they were bad or not. I don't know if those laws are still on the books or not . But it might be something worth checking into in your area. Or just keep them on hand until thry pick the car up and say if you want the bad parts, X has a core charge or whatever and I'll have to charge for it or you could just dispose of them. Of course 99% of the people wouldn't know why or what to do with them. But that was supposed to cure going in for an oil change and stop light replaced end up having the carburetor or ignition coil replaced because the shop needed to pay the electric bill.

[@deepsquat600]

Yes I live in Washington .. they have to give the replaced parts back here.. I do a little bit of repair work for mechanically challenged friends :) I give them the old parts back and make them throw them away :) .. keeps my garbage can emptier

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Three for three.......all bad. WOW! I think the parts cannon backfired 3 times! Oh well. At least you got it all straightened out. Good one Ivan! Thanks for the video.

[@KaldekBoch]

The number of times I had to repair the charging system on my 2002 Honda VFR800 was insane. Burned up/shorted stators, cooked regulator/rectifier boxes, toasted main bus wire and fuses....oof. Bought a BMW K1300R. Has alternator, no issues in 11 years.

[@KaldekBoch]

Actually I even remember the VFR being fine one day but cooked after a track day where it was at 11,000rpm for extended periods. Regulator/Rectifier and stator just couldn't take it.

[@markduncan6690]

I really like the motorcycle diagnostics!

[@williegillie5712]

1 thing I’ve learned about rebuilt or after market items is it’s a crap shoot every time you use substandard aftermarket garbage parts. It wastes your time and mine and it makes ya second guess everything. Funny story. I helped a good friend of mine replace a starter on his ATV The rebuilt one lasted less then 5 starts. When I opened it up it had kibbles and bits. The magnets in the case were all loose and laying on one side of the housing. Geniuses!

[@michaeld9731]

Great video! I had an XS650 and loved that bike. Other than a clutch job and normal maintenance, I never really had any trouble with it. Too bad the aftermarket parts were junk. Thanks for an entertaining and informative video.

[@danielkenny161]

Love the Yamaha 650 parallel twin. The brushes were my first go to.

[@jdretiree2433]

I owned one of those 650's back in the mid 80's except mine had the maroon colored tank. Wish I still had it.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Nice video and great redemption for your diagnosis. That’s the bad thing these days when something gets older. No more parts available by the OEM manufacturers and you have to gamble on aftermarket parts.

[@CharlesLease-ei1ee]

Even right down to automotive I agree with you in the shop. Don’t throw your parts away. It always happens happens dealer aftermarket defect not made right wrong year everything he went through.

[@dosiodosev740]

Don't have these applications, but fun to watch

[@nv1493]

Every repair or resto I do, first rule is bag and tag everything removed, even old bolts, and keep EVERYTHING.

[@Bellboy40]

Now when he sends those defective parts back to the supplier, they will put them back on the shelf as good stock. The next guy will have the same problem. It happens a lot to electrical parts.

[@jetmechmarty]

Do not throw the old rotor away. It can be rewound. I've been running a rewound rotor for 20 years. Custom Rewind in Alabama is one of the places that does it. The OEM rotor is going to fail. It has to do with the insulation technology at the time they were built. Rewound is better than NOS. Fix that and the XS650 is bulletproof.

[@JR-pc4cr]

my xv 920 j yamaha also charges a little over 15v when I give gas, I was about to think it was a bit too much so it overcharges. since cars charge about 14v normally. so it was good to see 15v on a motorbike is normal so I'm more relaxed about it :-). good job you did greetings here from dammark.

[@williamwhite9767]

More motorcycle videos!!!

[@arcademania7544]

I remember Ivan when he was YamaMoto! 😁

[@n3ymy630]

I had a similar situation with old parts. My DR650 stopped running and the high tension coil returned close, but out of range resistance. I replaced the coil and still nothing. The new coil’s resistance was in range. Later it was determined the pickup coil was bad. Still would not run. With the old high tension coil, all was well. Always keep the old parts!

[@jamesatkinson6480]

I remember reading in a Chrysler Valiant service manual (1966 model) in the 'electrical' section that the maximum field winding current (DC) is 2A with regulator (contact type) 'on', which, with 12Volts input (battery) makes a resistance of 6 ohms (about the same for the motorcycle). Most occasions the brushes wear out, but it seems (as you mention) the windings are beginning to short out (with a 1.5 ohm measurement). It is a rare fault, as many-a-wrecked bike has a 'good' one... Tricky about the combined ignition pick-up.. With all these rare faults emerging, volt meters, current meters, and resistance testing are essential to make a comparison with a 'known good' and an accurate diagnosis...

[@mag1vl]

Hello Ivan from Australia 🙃 It's been a while since I last rode a Yam XS 650 twin good times😎

[@ulfg1409]

Nice to see a couple of bikes here too! Wouldn't mind more bike repairs.

[@resource6134]

Something I've been seeing as a point of failure on consumer and aftermarket generator rotors and transformers is the improper attachment of enamel-coated aluminum magnet wire. I've found aluminum wire with the enamel intact all the way to the end of the wire and a glob of solder holding it in place. The solder only made superficial contact with the cut tip of the aluminum wire and soon fails completely ("Obsolescence Fuse"). Besides, at best aluminum requires special treatment for the solder to even adhere to it. I've seen several techs look at the copper-toned enamel and assume it's copper...a scratch test would prove otherwise.

[@dskwared2u610]

In 1980, my ride was a Honda XL 80. The process was good professor. 👍

[@CXensation]

Morale: Always check your replacement parts against the old parts. And if possible do a functional test and measure with your test meter.

[@bcad4066]

Moral

[@CXensation]

@@bcad4066 You can have the e for lunch ...

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

@@bcad4066 Well, bad parts can affect your morale! 😁

[@CXensation]

@@jeffryblackmon4846 And it certainly affects the producers morale.

[@MrGodsking]

great work as usual

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!

[@Walczyk]

great catch ivan, bad repairs cause headaches

[@OneLegged-honda-mechanic]

Times i let the vehicle owner get involved in supplying the parts a little voice in my head says “don’t do it” I let them supply the parts, and gets me in trouble majority of the time. I know because of your knowledge you would have studied the picture of the part and spotted the missing pick up for HEI ignition or at least would have had a better understanding of comparison of compatibility with part numbers, vehicle owners often times lack that experience and knowledge and assume or choose the cheapest part they can find or assume the seller is truthful about the part being correct. I know this situation was unique with parts availability, sometimes we just get dragged into a cluster through no fault of our own 😂

[@dustcommander100]

Very interesting diagnosis. I owned a Kawasaki and about 5 Hondas back in the day, and don't remember any electrical problems. One Honda had a selenium rectifier, I think. Always figured it wasted power to limit voltage. Nothing against Yamahas, I just didn't get one, and assumed they were all the same.....

[@carlwilliamson6953]

I have a 1979 XS 650. They can be difficult. Kudos to you.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

650 twin is probably the easiest to maintain and repair😉

[@hightttech]

Wow. Mike the parts seller must be feeling like Master Lock at the end of a Lock Picking Lawyer video 😆.

[@steveo6631]

Need to find one of those girls on KZbin that rewinds electric motor coils with new copper.... LOL...

[@deweydodo6691]

I put a led charging system indicator on my 1980 standard model after I got it. You never knew what the charging system was doing on these bikes with no indicators.

[@jerryking2418]

Thanks for the tutorial on Yamaha charging system. Methodical process wins again.

[@yz250a]

I had a motorcycle shop that specialized in Yamaha. Started at a Yamaha dealer in 1972. Parts availability on vintage bikes is scarce and risky.

[@iamnoone.]

I had one of those 650 and had the same problem with it. Burnt up parts. regulator, rotor open. Turn out the wires behind the drive chain got worn through and would short out from time to time. If you don't keep the drive chain adjusted, it will get into the wires. It cost me big time before I found the wires. Even the cycle shop missed it the first time repair was done.

[@jj-tt6gl]

You are sharp !!

[@davide.s.9880]

Man when I was a kid we had a lot of single engine planes in our area. The air port was little more than two miles away. But the parents passed and the kids sold the land to Meijer's

[@brainndamage]

The stator looked a bit crispy too, surprised it works. I think all these junk aftermarket parts are made with zero QC at all, they just make them to look similar, throw them in boxes and send them, never test them for even basic functionality much less on an actual machine for compatibility.

[@fredshead3956]

Hi Ivan thats much like an old type Car alternator system, with those at full output there was 3 amps going through the rotor, and the reistance of the rotor was 4 ohms, if thats any help to you...most of them had problems with the recifier...they also use the charging red light as an initial current for the rotor until it started to charge properly, giving it some risidul magnatism...ok cul Fred.

[@mos8541]

we dont have a season for bikes in my country, its ALWAYS riding weather...

[@richardcranium5839]

all my messing with bikes if you need one part you get them all. and you test everything BEFORE applying power. seen bad parts fry good parts almost instantly. it also pays on electrical to check wiring diagrams from year to year and also serial number breaks. they changed thing like i change underwear. seen the same regulator rubber mounted needing a seperate ground wire on a serial number break where it was solid mounted before not needing the extra ground wire.

[@markduncan6690]

I had that problem with my 1100 Shadow!

[@mykofreder1682]

It is basically a very old (50 year) antique vehicle, e-Bay parts are questionable because of the age and rebuilds are probably as good as the volume of parts sold. Once there are few vehicles still on the road you end up doing a Jay Leno, making/rebuilding your own parts or hacking a more modern part into the system.

[@THEDRAGONBOOSTER8]

Great video..

[@mechtechmechanical1571]

the Japanese always change parts from year to year but look like the same bike from the outside very crafty great vid

[@harryholiday5356]

Once worked on bikes in the 1970's and didn't have near the problems that are present today. Quality is a thing of the past in all modern transportation modes.

[@jhonditch4269]

80's high tech perfection

[@memoisbill]

Rick's Motorsports Electric is where I would recommend buying parts from.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

How long has the aftermarket headlight been on the bike? Was it installed prior to the charging system problem and could it have been the cause of all of the problems.

[@turner0224]

Be glad you’re not working on a magneto buddy! Early 70’s ha ha whole lot of. Frustration at its best. BTW may want to find another parts distributor other than Mike’s ha ha

[@richardnilsen8950]

Moral of the story let the Diag man do the repair your bike will come back Perfect🎓👍👍😁

[@peter-pg5yc]

coil and rectifier just like i had to do with my cb750c.. but it left me dead in nyc.. dealer tested by swapping parts from other bikes..like i did.

[@kingofl337]

I wouldn’t necessarily say the aftermarket charging module was junk. Running it on a dead shorted stator is abuse. Especially if he drove it around for a bit like that.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

True. Good thing the original regulator didn't get cooked haha

[@deepsquat600]

Lets see.. I have had my Regulator on a 1990 Pacific Coast blow out the head light ..2 twice ..1 st time I thought it was just a bad bulb ( hit RR tracks and it blew ,,) second time I found a post about a Huydia that tha wa the cause ( before you tube was around much to teach me... Second goofy one was my 2003 Suzuki Bamdit 1299 has a relay / solenoid for the starter .. used acual diagnosisi ..leqarned from you .. replaced it ...worked twice and failed...I ordered another .. I trusted my diag.. that one started the bike fine... then kept spinning the starter ;9 ;;; STILL TRUSTED MY DIA AND got a used one and it worked ever since ...

[@lightswitch342]

Man I wish you were closer. I dislike electrical issues. My VW Passat keeps blowing fuse #4 when my AC is running on AUTO turning the blower on high causing AC to blow hot. As far as I know fuse 4 is not even for the ac or blower. 😡

[@bradanderson1627]

That’s why test and check before installing when possible. A simple oms. Check and it would’ve been seen?

[@robertshatto2995]

Fyi.Bloomsburg yamaha has lots of NOS PARTS,,I have a 1975 650 ,I did get some parts from Mikes,,master cylinder, brake pads,,,good luck,

[@CubasAutomotive]

I enjoy that classic style of bike the most. So comfy. Though, i do like the crotch rockets from time to time, probably not as much over the years.

[@CubasAutomotive]

Wow! So much nonsense. Lol and sounds like Mike's parts should be avoided lol

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Late 70s Yamahas are my absolute favorite 2 wheeled machines 😉

[@TheDervMan]

Oh you do bikes too 😎🎉👌🏻🔧

[@stevenakn1]

Good ol haynes manuals ❤👍

[@user-my7hv5ld7b]

same problem with my i had with relays and sensors i checked and found bad then replaced and still the same problem then checked the new part 9 times out of 10 the new part was bad saw a funny car tag on a beautiful corvair convertible nader1 lol

[@pz6316]

I would have stayed with the Oem used rotor considering the history of the aftermarkets that you had.i had a slew of 70s rd350 never had a rotor crap out

[@nct9466]

Hello from New Zealand :) 1st!

[@LakeNipissing]

Imagine selling a headlight that is open on *both* filaments!!! You cannot make this up.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ha I was just as surprised when the old headlight worked flawlessly LOL

[@jays106]

i guess that is one place not to buy parts from if most of the parts they seem to send are bad

[@melvinjones3895]

Old but goodie.

[@spongbob18]

Love motorbikes there cool as there ace to fix unlike cars 🤣 but back to the point stator rectifier/regulator earths or harness cracked there supper basic somtimes theres a exciter to charge the cdi 👍

[@jodydavis161]

Where did you get your test probes ?

[@stereo1711]

Hey Pine Hollow auto diagnostic I have 2008 Cadillac DTS in need of BCM I have Autel MK908pro2 scan tool and ACDelco acc. My question is I want to buy New BCM from rock auto or better to buy used BCM or Reman, I don't want to have no problems later down the road?