A SAAB Story (No Speedometer & Fuel Gauge)

In this special episode, I visit my home town of Ithaca, NY and team up with Josiah of Blue Skies Mobile Auto Repair.
We get called in to diagnose a 2006 Saab 9-3 with a non-operational speedometer, fuel gauge, and "Christmas Tree" dash.
This turns into a really fun and educational case study...even the owner gets involved!
Can we join forces to prevent the PARTS CANNON??
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www.blueskiesmobileautorepair.com
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ASTRO AI DVOM:
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ASTRO AI DC AMP CLAMP:
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Enjoy!
Ivan

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

Had a great time! From my experience working in multiple independent shops over 15 years I’ve never witnessed this type of in depth testing from fellow coworkers besides many good diags with multi meters,scanners, ect but the use of scopes is very far and few between. This being said we now have PHAD and the other greats on KZbin teaching the 9-5 wrenching techs there are great ways to diagnose properly and test not guess!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That was a fun diag, Josiah! Now you have to get a real scope and harness the power 💪Line up some more hard diags for my next visit! 😁

[@scientist100]

I started with Scanner Danner many years ago and learned about scopes from him. I'm now following the teachings of Bernie from ATS for the understanding and operation of different systems when it comes to waveforms which is lacking in a lot of service manuals.

[@automotivated5934]

Josiah you lucky SOB! Haha good video guys! It’s nice to have this support network for auto Diag.! There is not a single one of us that know everything but with all these bright minds together there isn’t much that can’t be fixed! Nice to see a good collaboration video. Haven’t seen a SMA/PHAD in a while!

[@NewLevelAuto]

You had a great opportunity here. Glad you got the chance to learn with Ivan.

[@boltthrower3215]

I learned it at master tech school in germany and know my stuff but anyway most people won’t proceed and rather stay at a clean desk…i call them wannabes

[@djosbun]

That customer seems like a fun guy to be around!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

He was a riot 😂

[@Halibrand]

This is a super common problem on the 9-3 2003-2007. After 2007 they changed the quality of the rear loom wires so 2007-2010 are not plagued with this issue.

[@hooptierescue2540]

That could have been real embarrassing to do those rear wheel hubs and speed sensors just to find out those weren't the problem at all (which I'm sure many/most techs would have just done). Good job double and triple checking. Also, fun seeing the customer reaction.

[@mikechiodetti4482]

LOTS of corrosion undercar. You've only just begun with this rust bucket! Good fix Ivan!

[@kamX-rz4uy]

I drove a car for over a year without a working speedometer. Traded it in for a newer car and got a speeding ticket in less than a week. At least I got out of paying the ticket because the police lost the calibration records causing the judge to dismiss it.

[@TheTaraneem]

It’s becoming like a movie cliche watching your videos, car/module not working even after replacing the modules/parts; trace it to be a wire damaged somewhere in the harness/ecu. Entertaining to watch every time. Thank you

[@aldrinalmario1513]

Awesome diagnosis and fix Ivan & Josiah! Plus No Parts Required! Hearing how happy the customer is icing on the cake. Cheers to both of you!

[@tracydiller9378]

Another great video Ivan with special guest Josiah from Blue Skies Mobile Auto Repair and customer.Hope you two can do some more videos together pretty cool.Everyone have a great and safe weekend.

[@gregjones8501]

Way to do it Ivan! This video had “Test don’t guess!” Written all over it! I enjoyed the in depth testing and confirmation process from beginning to end. Thanks Ivan! I learned some new and valuable information that I can arm myself with out in the field! ✊🏾

[@kastooMcFry]

No parts canon required - nice job. Thanks, Ivan.

[@thejoneseys]

Loads of these still riding around here in the UK 😁 Always love the no parts required videos, hopefully he's asked to fix the fuel gauge. That would give me permanent anxiety 😂

[@annaplojharova1400]

With classic relyctance sensors you need to move the wheel above certain speed for the sensors to provide sufficient signal to measure any speed. This is, because they work on electromagnetic induction, so need the field to change at certain rate to get sufficient amplitude. Usually about 3..5km/h is required, the ABS usually stops working below 8km/h to ensure the ABS won't mess up just because too weak signal. These active (very likely hall effect or rf eddy current measurement) sensors work virtually from zero, as they detect the teeth in a static manner, so nothing has to move at all. That allows the ABS to work really down to zero speed.

[@petar443]

I've heard the sensor could be damaged if ohm checking these fancy digital sensors? Is that truth? I love resistance testing.

[@petar443]

The mobile mechanic is lucky he could hang out and learn from guru Ivan.

[@terminaldiagnostics5576]

These type of sensors are magneto type sensor the ecu send down 12 volts via a high impedance resistor and ground on other wire as the sensor works on Milli amps approx 5 to 15 Milli amp switch depending on the position of the reluctor ring it can pull down the power feed a small amount and the ecu monitors the Milli amp change and frequency depending on manufacturers it can be done either way . Another way to check is milli amps clamp or turn the test cable 10 to 20 turns in the jaw of a normal amps clamp and do a bit of maths

[@per-anderslundholm3494]

The Swedish state took over the spare parts company in the bankruptcy (security for loans), original parts still exist.

[@vpimike2646]

Great title, Ivan. Another "Saab story" (of green crusties in the Pennsylvania Rust Belt). Makes me grateful to live in Georgia, where snow falls about once every four years and salt is only found in shakers.

[@wyattoneable]

"The Keith tug test". Such a classic.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Great video and collab with Josiah. What a lucky guy getting to work with you and getting an awesome troubleshooting lesson. Are you visiting Eric as well since you ventured into the Peoples Republic of New York? I always enjoyed when you visited him in Avoca and you guys posted a video.

[@keltecshooter]

Its surprising to see active wheel speed sensor on an older Saab but they were ahead of their time . I have had to rebuild the rear harnesses on some of those Saabs due to not available at all and the wires just falling apart.

[@nhzxboi]

I've had my Pico Scope 3205 for almost 20 years now. I don't have all the fancy leads and jumpers you have. I use mine for industrial control systems. Damned happy with it. I don't use it for months at a time. When I do use it, it always works. Most helpful for me in my fields is the Modbus decoder. I deal with a lot of RS485 networks...essentially the same voltages as CAN and Ethernet copper. There is nothing magical about the automotive networks,....they were derived from industrial control networks.

[@smithraymond09029]

3:10 wow look at all that corrosion. Those northeastern roads really eat up the undersides of cars.

[@simonparkinson1053]

On most of the systems with that type of sensor, the ABS module will remove the feed after about a second after key-on if it does not see a valid signal level being returned. You would have seen the feeds appear and disappear with your scope at the module if you cycled the key.

[@niallseddon8657]

Spot on Simon it could definitely catch you out, disconnecting the sensor during testing can drop the supply voltage.

[@sjn7220]

Thanks! I was still wondering why the ABS module wasn't putting out 12 V.

[@jimpetty2961]

Give it the keith tug test i liked that. your the man ivan

[@joshuavieira1365]

I used to have that same exact work van when I did mobil service for 5 years. Great rid besides the fuel mileage!

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

It’s a beast! Did yours come with an Onan generator?

[@joshuavieira1365]

@@blueskiesmobileauto4253 it did! And a compressor!

[@joshuavieira1365]

@@blueskiesmobileauto4253 mime was a 97 I believe 5.7 gad job. Worst gas mileage ever😆

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

Nice! Mine was a kohler gm vortec 4cyl with a snapped timing belt. Installed timing belt, turned over great afterwards but still no start then gave up shortly realizing the extreme weight of those things in the back. Got a Honda generator and stand up compressor which cut the weight substantially. Great van though. Lots of tool storage !

[@billrimmer5596]

Man I miss Keith. Stellar talent. Somebody must b paying him big bucks. Diagnose Dan is another one. And of course we have Ivan. The two scopes were cool!! Thank u!! Time for some borscht

[@engeneer_ru5827]

Keit needs to be returned to YT!

[@htownblue11]

Wow. Very clever way to see if signal from known good front sensor would show on rear wheels when patched in. That’s next level.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's nice to have 4 sensors to compare :)

[@somerandomguy3868]

Never had occasion to work on Saab abs, they certainly made you work for it

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Some research definitely required!

[@engeneer_ru5827]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics На большинстве современных автомобилей, встречаются датчики именно такого типа. На европейских - всюду. Я удивлен, что ты впервые столкнулся с ними...

[@tvguy12346]

you can take pictures of individual captures on the uSCOPE using the top right two buttons. one will freeze the screen, the other will save the image. you can scroll through the buffer by using the innermost button at the top right and then moving the cursor to POS and clicking ok so the POS button is flashing. then use the left/right arrow buttons to move. I believe you have to have the trigger on normal for this to work, though.

[@jimpie231]

This Is a Saab That’s sobbing……..! I wonder why Saab Is out of business? Thanks, you’re The Best! Thanks…..Jim

[@bonedaddy4670]

Thumbs up just for the title! Oh yeah, great video also!!

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

Amazing! That had to have been frustrating at times.

[@senanfoutchedjev2401]

Man, its great you do that. Try to help and train the other guy. Complementary Ivan.

[@kv2280]

If the customer wanted the fuel sending unit fixed I imagine dropping that tank must have been fun. I imagine putting it back in even better. With all that rust that thing would be held in with hopes, prayers and zip ties.

[@OzFrog48Z]

I'm not familiar with the Saab system, but many vehicle ABS modules will cut power to a hall effect type sensor if it's not getting a voltage reading from the signal wire.. As soon as the code is set the power is shut off. This is to prevent damage to the module in case of a short. That could be why there was no twelve volt signal at the module side of the harness. A broken power wire to the sensor would produce the same result and the power would be shut off.

[@kevinpalmer7452]

Great video 👍 nice use of the power probe extension never thought of using that. 👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's the only useful thing that PowerProbe offers...plus the cig lighter adapter :)

[@EdsVideosRcool]

12:02 Cool Blue Ghia behind Ivan's shoulder

[@johnclamshellsp1969]

To Pine Hollow Diag, always great videos. Also, I love the customer waiting area, LOL.

[@billziegmond4943]

Wow nice fix guys. Ivan should have been with me on the Astra today.. Driver power window motor just humming.. Give power to the up and down signal wires window works. Tested switch it was bad,. Replace switch now you can hear the m motor try to run but nothing.. Check the ground. now ground at switch. The door has a bulk connector and the doors side ground was good. Body side open circuit to battery ground. Go to ground stud behind kick panel tests open. Was able to pull the rubber conduit off the bulk connector.. Kieth tug test on ground wire.. It came right out. Here is the interesting part. No green crusty's no sign of chaffing. I should have taken a picture. It looked like somebody cut the wire with a side cutter. clean smooth looking cut. Repaired the ground wire. Window now works.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

IT'S POSESSED, BILL! 👻

[@Blazer02LS]

Wonder if it was partly cut when crimped and just took a while for it to fully fail?

[@baxrok2.]

Not just learning, but having fun too. Good stuff. Thanks Ivan!

[@SAMSAM-zr3hs]

My dear genius solved the problem again, well done.👌👌👌👌

[@markknights5109]

Patients is the key well done again 👏👏👏🍺🍺

[@AP9311]

Wow, Josiah and customer in video! That's a real treat! Nice video of NPR fixes! Check and don't guess!! Great diagnosis! Enjoyed the video! Many thumbs up 👍

[@kellygibson7299]

Just had a cool little case study on a 2000 F250 7.3L. Intermittent loss of speedometer and ABS light illumination. Plugged in a cheap handheld Bosch scan tool I bought years ago and the symptoms improved immediately? Read the codes and was given a C1230 Rear Center wheel speed circuit malfunction. Barely touched the wires at the rear diff connector and one of them broke instantly lol. No parts required!!

[@mds2465]

On those Saabs it’s very common for the abs module to malfunction overtime in which case you need to send it out for rebuilding. I see that all the time on those

[@josephmccormack6910]

Ivan....you are awesome. Great diagnosis and great repair. Much the best! GO BIG RED!!!

[@robbflynn4325]

Never get tired of your videos as they always feature something quirky. You and Scotty Kilmer are on my must watch list.

[@sblagg527]

Scotty Kilmer?? REALLY??? Ivan and several others are leaps and bounds beyond that guy. Scotty is EXACTLY the kind of mechanic that would have just thrown new wheel hubs/ sensors at it.

[@robbflynn4325]

@@sblagg527 I'm not sure if what you're saying is correct. Scotty has been a mechanic for 54 years, think about that. But yes I agree his depth of knowledge is perhaps skewed towards the older type cars, but I can still take a lot away from his videos and have learned from them. A lot of what Ivan does goes way over my head, the guy without question probably has an IQ of 150, you can see in this video how he is way ahead of the other mechanic. In other episodes he has solved problems that the dealers were unable to fathom. As Scotty would say, comparing himself to Ivan is like apples to oranges, but then again Scotty is no dummy, just has a different approach and is more of an old school mechanic.

[@dznuttzonyachin7499]

Old timer is funny ... "I ain't buying one" 😂🤣 Thanks Ivan !! You should think about taking a local youngster under you wing !! Would be a fantastic opportunity !! Ivan's Apprenticeship !! 😁

[@inothome]

Another good one!! Fun and the hardest part is figuring out how to charge for that long day! Sure the reward of finding the problems and NPR is factored in to your charges, because there is no way you can charge the full time on a job like that.

[@DanielSan-ch7dr]

Yes npr but only cause he is the most through tech on KZbin. Guarunteed the guy would have got the quote taken it somewhere and said fit these to fix my Speedo and they wouldn't give him a refund if they were wrong. Ivan has said he doesn't charge for learning a new system because it's not fair but he does charge to diag and separate charge to repair it those parts wouldn't be cheap at all so he probably saved hundreds and would be happy regardless.

[@alasdairmunro1953]

Great diagnose and fix Ivan!

[@tomvleeuwen]

The resistance measurement of an active component like these wheel speed sensors can be all over the place, especially if you switch range on the multimeter or take a different one. I always try to do a diode measurement and if that does not give a short or open, it is much more reproducible.

[@Grunter123]

Great content as usual Ivan. Great channel, thankyou.

[@anthonypolimeni2043]

Awesome ! I am happy I found your channel

[@MitzvosGolem1]

i had1977 SAAB 99 and 1983 900 turbo awesome quality strong fast good in snow. Sad they are gone. Only a Volvo 240 was better. The only Euro Cars that were good. Any 12vdc conductors under car that are exposed to road salt often dissolve as an anode . A small pin hole in insulation does it. Excellent tech work both of you.

[@rogerbrewer6502]

This is great training.

[@mikep95133]

Great work Ivan !!

[@gregj7916]

Dash and centre console lights on the old saab look mega at night…. The customer was a bit of a character…

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Excellent Sunday morning education, thanks Ivan 🙏🙏👍

[@BoweryPenguin8]

Soon as you said old gm unintended abs activation I had nam flashbacks😂

[@mikeaho4143]

Great vid Ivan. Great learning experience especially using the scope. Thanks for sharing

[@tomcordes1768]

Ivan, I always enjoy your content.

[@tonychalmers9867]

Going to guess this is wiring issue in rear axle part of the harness? Not watched it yet but done lots. Wires rub on the inside of the plastic conduit and corrode .

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Spoiler alert 🤫

[@drewbush6535]

So much fun!! I need to change careers. Nice job.... great feeling to go the extra mile

[@tomweir3857]

WOW, Ivan went into his teaching mode. My head is still spinning, yours too Josiah?

[@sohailrabani]

You are a good teacher bro ivan👌👍

[@iceman9549]

Awesome video Ivan👍👍👍👍

[@steveedwards1072]

Excellent process! Y’all saved him ALOT of money on needless parts(aka the parts cannon). Peace

[@edwardrestivo7519]

I can see u love what u do 😊 great job.You r an inspiration

[@jamesbruno5896]

Nice job guys!

[@jdtractorman7445]

I almost got burned on my truck by those digital output sensors. Thought they were the older style variable reluctance style so checked resistance and got some wacked out readings on them. That's when I investigated and found resistance checks on those are not an accurate way of checking. Had a car back in the day with a fuel gauge issue where it read empty all the time. Found that the float in the tank was brass and hollow in the middle, it got a crack in it allowing it to fill with fuel making it stay at the bottom of the tank all the time thus reading empty all the time.

[@victorarevalo108]

Great video? Nice to see various diag tools being put to use

[@malang73]

Ivan, I have same problem with my Hyundai Excel 94. No speedometer, fuel gauge. Just high beams, turn signals, and temperature gauge. But, I still drive it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wow an Excel?? I thought those were extinct 15 years ago lol,

[@Ram14250]

Great job Ivan. Bet the owner is glad you were there. His car is good for a little while longer thanks to you! It amazing me every time someone works on a Saab, the interior plastics sound (just you shifting the gear shift) like rubbing Styrofoam ... squeaky / creaky plastics. (Cheap materials)

[@CARRJ142]

Great Video!

[@maxepr1014]

Every man has a SAAB story!

[@neilmurphy845]

Good job

[@Graham_Wideman]

No scopes left behind! I approve of this message. Hahaha.

[@bostedtap8399]

One of the few aircraft manufacturers to start making cars, highly thought off in Sweden, until the automotive division was sold to GM, Now owned by Spyker. Excellent work Ivan and Joshia, great diagnosis. Thanks for sharing.

[@Vespastendert]

Both spyker and saab are now history. Both gone bust.

[@vw5056]

It is GM that deserved to go out of business, not Saab.

[@scientist100]

Jeep Wranglers have this same configuration on the waveform signature. On the regular vdc setup, it shows the waveform on the 12v feed and this is what is used for calculating the wheel speed. First time I scoped it I almost missed it because the change was so small so I switched to AC coupling with about 2volts resolution. Theoretically you cant just jump a wire because the signature wont be there from what I remember. The module is critical as it monitors the change of resistance that is generated from the sensor when reading the magnetic reluctor.

[@scottschulte1157]

Fun one to watch!!

[@v4vauxhall498]

Ivan , Paul Danner had a video a couple of years back on a similar type abs system .Regards Joe

[@robpeabo509]

it is good that you have the knowledge base to know how a sensor operates by the type of the wave forms a sensor makes even when you have not seen a particular wave form from a given sensor like the one on the SAAB. It helps you in the diagnosis phase to know the operation of said sensor. The ultimate diagnosis of a few breaks in he circuit wire is a different matter, and a different diagnosis. I am sure there would be mechanics out there scratching their heads thinking it was also a sensor problem if they had not seen that purely "digital" electronic wave form instead of the "traditional" "analogue" (sinusoidal) wave form from the ABS sensor. Your degree in I think electronics or similar would assist you heaps with the electronics of cars. I can't recall if you ever said you worked in the industry of you degree(s).

[@MechanicTechnicianRepair]

exselete dianostic tec nice videio

[@caractacusbrittania7442]

Just to add, Having a spare rear wheel bearing and sensor, disconnecting the car one and plug into the spare loose one, Then spin it, would have confirmed no 12v feed, and no signal, Or, Get your buddy to drive Then go into live data, while the car is moving, Would have confirmed no signal or power to both rear hubs. The rear passanger one Is also used for calculating distance to empty(dte) on the saab information display, and fuel reserves and usage.

[@matejanosvarga8877]

Good job Ivan. Not sure how a "more fancy" repair shop would have dealt with this. After replacing the wheel hubs, they could still have blamed it on them being crappy aftermarket parts. Seen it a couple of times.

[@Cowboy_Ash]

Wiring harness design/material needs to catch up to the sensor technology.

[@Walczyk]

If you asked me I'd say continuity check, and also checking for power up top.

[@stevenmiller2565]

The uscope has a signal generator, you can use that to send a signal up the harness

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Really? That's neat!

[@rexko381]

Mobile Auto Repair - I wished that you guys could be in California.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Sounds inviting in the middle of winter... We would have to quadruple our rates though haha 😉

[@bobparrott8130]

👍 Super super Job

[@BobPegram]

Very early on I started muttering to myself "broken wire, broken wire, broken wire..." 8-))

[@larrystephens7437]

LOL, NPN and NO.... To Be Continued... Fun video...

[@hewhite8082]

I've seen this type of Hall Effect setup for sensing wheel speed on the aircraft I used to work on in the navy. Guess what else Saab is known for LOL!! 😂

[@craiggoodwin9704]

Ivan, you guys are having too much fun out in the dark. Did the car run as well in the daylight? Thanks for Sharing!

[@Paul1958R]

Ivan/Josiah, Great video, diag, and fix - thank you! Im just curious about something: you plugged the L front sensor into the L rear sensor connector and got nothing because the wiring in the rear was broken which makes sense. But why didnt you do the opposite and plug the rear sensor into the front L connector to verify the issue wasnt the L rear sensor ? I know you figured it our eventually but just curious. Thanks Paul (in MA)

[@tharufian]

Great eye opener video on my 05 saab Q.. what is the scanner brand and model thanks

[@Garth2011]

Lots of diag here. Never did like working on cars at night and won't allow my mobile mechanic to work on my cars at night either.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Beauty of daylight savings 😅

[@jimforsyth2.]

I have had this soldering iron in my cart for ever and want to buy it wish you would show the whole kit and charger or charging situation. Want to buy it for a gift but don't want them to need to buy so

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

All listed in my Amazon store 👍

[@richardgift4244]

i have seen same on Kia Hundai (12v) as signals....

[@QuintonNG2000]

My first saab had no speedometer or fuel gauge either 😂