Heated Debate on Pornography w/ Dennis Prager

[@pintswithaquinas]

If you're a KZbinr, make a response video to this one. Critique what I did poorly, articulate what I could have articulated better. Pornography is evil and never acceptable. Let's shout that from the mountain tops while showing kindness and compassion to those who are currently ensnared in it. Freedom is possible.

[@iamneverwrong6635]

He’s going to hopefully come around. You can’t defend the indefensible. Pornography is something that promotes deviant views of women, takes God out of the sacred sexual union of a man and woman and destroys families. Period.

[@racheljames7]

I can't see how anyone could fault you here. You did superbly well, Matt. I'm proud of you.

[@richarddeerflame]

@@jeffgough I have done it... its realistic and its entirely possible to turn of all sexuality when its not for Procreation or with ones Wife. People think things are impossible only because of their view on the topic... all things are possible with God... And trust me... the freedom from it... I am Married and we are so happy..... without Sex! ( We hug and show that affection physically yes) . The fact I am able to ... just proves... we do have self control and abilities that are powerful.... we cannot say we dont and then make things "Ok" because of this or that.... an excuse if you will. Humans as a whole and im not judging you or pointing at you... im saying generally.. people are good at making excuses for lack of control. It's a human trait.... But when you have something powerful to live up to from Gods Laws... I tell you this... Anything is possible... Every man has access to learn how to control himself... it's not for specific people only.... it's free for all. Believe me .

[@racheljames7]

​@@jeffgough if you're at an age where your wife has alzheimers, your lust does not need quenching in the same way a verile young man's does. Matt is right. It's a sin and there's no excuse. We can't say it's OK for this person or that person to do it, but not that person. Its not alright full stop.

[@timobrien72]

I'm very much ensnared (good term) in it. I'm hopelessly addicted to it and have been for so many years. I'm married, although not a Catholic marriage ( which we are going to put rihgt ) please have understanding and compassion for those of us that have this disease. I use pornography and I'm trying to be a good Catholic. I don't list after a beautiful woman on a train and then masturbate. I use this to deal with life. I need prayers

[@mollym6375]

This really opened my eyes to how conservativism, without the light of Christ, cannot be the solution to our problems.

[@smolrat159]

I'm so happy for you 💝

[@Harvdigity]

Amen

[@jared0817]

This statement sums up it very nicely. I might still the quote. 😊

[@radfoo72]

Absolutely. Our politics cannot save us. It is by Christ alone and through him our politics can have a morally acceptable foundation.

[@riverebec1]

Please explain what you mean by that.

[@zachvanmeter1154]

“What we once called hardcore we now call softcore; what we once called softcore we now call Netflix.” Straight facts.

[@feslerae]

Underrated comment

[@johncassani6780]

It wasn’t too long ago that polite society considered what’s now on Netflix to be hardcore.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

This is true - but I don't think Matt Fradd has an objective standard for what he calls pr0n other than his gut feeling. He's really inconsistent on this point in all his material on the subject, and it frustrates me to no end. How can he say that the Sistine Chapel is art but the Victoria's Secret fashion show is pornography? By what standard? It's not good to let our standards change due to culture, but when our standards are based on vague feelings rather than objective observations, they're gonna slide ans slide.

[@robynbeach3198]

TRUTH

[@mrbaker7443]

What we once called hardcore is now children’s TV.

[@youngKOkid1]

This discussion is a great example of why I'm moving from Judaism to Christianity.

[@youngKOkid1]

@@NorthCountry84 Thanks, I'm still undecided as to Protestant vs Catholic vs Orthodox, but keeping my mind open!

[@Wilkins325]

Praise God. Happy to hear that.

[@pmlm1571]

youngKOkid, I have been a longtime listener to Dennis' fine radio show--he is a real champion of truth and goodness in many outstanding ways. But he finally always failed me when the discussion turned to human sexuality. I came to realize he had some kind of global error in his thinking. I am guessing that judaism includes no account of natural law. If you do not think things have inbuilt-nature and inbuilt purpose, then there is finally no way to know if you are rightly using the thing--in this instance, sexuality--or abusing it. Judaism is the preparation for Christianity and Western Civilization from which we here--and the world--have benefited. Christianity knows--through Aristotle through Thomas Aquinas--that virtue is honoring the nature of whatever thing we are considering, its design and purpose. And vice is using a thing for other than it was designed for, or contrary to its design (sodomy being an example in sex, lying an example in speech, bulimia an example in eating, etc). With thanks to Judaism and the Old Testament, I encourage you to keep coming, for Christ made all things New.

[@hellooutsiders6865]

Praise Yeshua! Wait until the Revelation clicks, then you will have no trouble accepting Jesus as the king of the Jews and the Gentiles.

[@Thagomizer]

Because you hate your own genitals?

[@maddihuskergirl]

The line, "if adulte adultery is the shot in the head to marriage, then pornagrphy is the slow poison..." really got me

[@imyourhuckleberry1040]

Well it’s a apparently a very slow “poison” considering Prager’s parents would look at playboy together and were happily married for over 70 years.

[@crusaderACR]

​@@imyourhuckleberry1040 Ans prager divorced thrice

[@imyourhuckleberry1040]

@@crusaderACR Yeah and I’m sure they all divorced him because of the porn lol.

[@crusaderACR]

@@imyourhuckleberry1040 totally played a factor for sure

[@mikeg425]

@@imyourhuckleberry1040exception to the rule doesn’t change the rule

[@rosedevine440]

"If adultery is the shooting of a marriage in the head, then pornography is the slow poisoning of it" 🙌

[@colasfalon6470]

It's a pretty cool quote, and I think I can accept some aspects of the sentiment, however in both parts of that quote, the gun is being blamed for the murder.

[@1guitar12]

@@colasfalon6470 Interesting that’s how you see it, as compared to the gun and poison as tools used by the sinner. I see the tools as the clear means and not the deception

[@colasfalon6470]

@@1guitar12 From your reply, I am not certain whether what precisely we disagree on. If I might clarify, it isn't actually the "adultery" nor the "poison" that actually CAUSES the death (as the ultimate cause), but the individual's eventual need for the utilization of them. Perhaps a better analogy might be the farmer putting down a lame/sick animal, in which it makes no difference whether it is the shotgun or the arsenic...they are only a means to finalize that which was already inevitable. Nobody thinks that the shotgun or arsenic are evil (at their core nature) nor that those tools are the ultimate cause (even thought they are the proximal cause) of the animal's demise.

[@1guitar12]

@@colasfalon6470 Yea I think we’re on the same page

[@itstime9040]

It’s more of the poisoning of the individuals soul.

[@braydb83]

"...pornography trains us in selfishness" Spot on Matt. Thats truly at the heart of the matter

[@humpteedumptee8629]

people were already and will always be selfish. we use to get wives but literally just taking them.

[@tanislater6845]

​@@humpteedumptee8629 That doesn't negate the truthfulness of the statement, sex shouldn't be selfish and neither should marriage. If it's all about yourself then you won't be able to maintain a lifelong relationship and the sex will be meaningless

[@humpteedumptee8629]

@@tanislater6845 no saying acting like your not going to be selfless indefinitely is silly. that's why we have compromise. because people by default want things their way.

[@nightmareTomek]

"...pornography trains us in selfishness" is people dictating how others should behave. I consume lots of porn, but I do lots of things for others without asking anything in return. I must be so selfish, right? If my love and care isn't accepted because of some side activity, then marriage is a leash. Dunno how it's different from one person in the relationship telling the other what friends he is allowed to have.

[@brittoncain5090]

@@nightmareTomek"Pornography trains us in selfishness" doesn't say anything about what others should so. It merely describes the effects of what someone has already chosen to do.

[@andrefouche9682]

Now I see the difference between true Christianity and so called American conservativism. Well spoken Matt.

[@GothVibeWars]

Really it’s mostly Judaism

[@mnmmnm925]

prager represents judaism and neoconvervatism

[@doctoreggman21]

sexual debauchery and degeneration of society is okay as long as we have da jobs!!! 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@jarlaxle150]

(((American Conservatism)))

[@Daniel_Abraham1099]

American Conservativism = Neocon = Judeo-Christian = Judaism

[@rutatutut]

Mr. Prager: Won't drive a car on the sabbath. Subscribes to Playboy.

[@anon8638]

Terms and conditions ahh

[@GM-cr4yk]

Judaism in a nutshell

[@Mathetesofscripture]

Look into who all the first male adult stars were. Ron Jeremy might be the most famous, what is his upbringing? There's a common element to all of this degeneracy

[@anon8638]

@fourthplateau944 almost all pron directors, pron company owners, Hollywood directors, music industry label owners have this same upbringing. Odd, it must be a total coincidence!

[@Mathetesofscripture]

@anon8638 it only gets weirder as we see a special provision given throughout history that other groups have never and will never see. The natives of all lands just seem to draw a short straw as this group moves in and becomes extremely rich, and yet always have a place to flee to when caught. I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing this, but it needs to become public sentiment.

[@MattFoote]

The problem with Dennis' ideology here is that he's preoccupied with what he would consider evil and not what God considers evil.

[@WhoTouchMyGun]

This is the exact issue Judaism has had since time immemorial. All through the Bible, especially in the Torah, the Jewish people have tried to define what is good based one what they find objectionable, not based on what God, their God and the God of Christianity, considers good. This is why they struggled with idol worship and the punishments that came from it. This is why they were forced to wander the wilds for forty years, because they were more preoccupied with what they considered right than what God considers right. You can see this is Dennis' view as he doesn't view encouraging thoughts of evil things as being unacceptable, merely that they're less ideal than not having them.

[@malcolmfreeman7802]

given the bibles unclear and conflicting ideas - they have to be interpreted by man

[@MattFoote]

@@malcolmfreeman7802 to which ideas are you referring to as conflicting?

[@highinfovoter8909]

@@MattFoote I've noticed, when pressed, no one ever has concrete examples when they mention things like what Malcom said about the Bible.

[@fxstsharley]

I don't think the purpose of this debate was to figure out what evil is. What I took from this debate is what is the best we can do as human beings, Not saints. I thinknthats where Denis was coming from. The other guy calling master--------- evil and saying people should control themselves while smoking and drinking is more than a bit hypocritical LOL. (I smoke and drink a bit also but)

[@thomasthellamas9886]

As a man who has struggled with pornography in the past, the ever so slight justification of that addiction and those purely evil chains is, without a doubt, disgusting.

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

It's the 'ever-so-slight-justification' that leads one rolling down the hill to full-blown slavery.

[@Thefloridarepublic]

For sure. Been there. Please God that I'm rescued forever.

[@bboness713]

Our behavior follows the thoughts of our mind. If you can't win the battle in your own mind you have no chance curbing the behavior.

[@TheGoreforce]

the only time it's considered an addiction is if it's getting in the way of your productivity, if instead you'd read a book or watch tv, you're not addicted.

[@frankjennings4489]

Personally, when I stopped associating sin and shame with pornography, I was no longer really tempted by it. In that respect, regarding every gradation of porn as purely evil only adds to its power. It was never a really serious problem for me, so everyone’s different, but I think we can often take our own experience and mistakenly think that it applies to everyone.

[@brendan.j.t]

Prager seems to think the pornification of culture is evil, but doesn’t mind men indulging in porography… seems like cognitive dissonance. Terrific job Matt 🙏🏼 glory to Jesus Christ

[@vizuz]

@@Gt3ch The fact that Prager couldn't even define his position at all, just shows how much he's arguing on shaky grounds. It's like saying I'm against abortion but only after 16 weeks, why 16 weeks? Because it's 'less bad' than killing a baby at 26 weeks, or 36 weeks. Just because it's 'less bad' doesn't make it not bad. But Prager was very hesitant to even calling the 'less bad' as bad.

[@brendan.j.t]

@@Gt3ch fair. just, "it's less sinful, so eh whatever," is such a bad point, as Matt I think made clear. Especially when it can and often does lead to or involve such greater evils.

[@marchess286]

@@vizuz - so there are no gradations of bad or evil? Dante Alighieri, call your office!

[@Gt3ch]

@@vizuz I don’t know what you mean by saying he "couldn't even define his position at all.” Maybe you missed it? While the abortion example is faulty yes there are different levels of sin. Even Matt said there are varying levels to murder as patricide is worse than killing a stranger.

[@Gt3ch]

@@brendan.j.t Well yeah- they barely touched on a couple topics that really needed to be expanded more for their positions to be clearer. One is all the evils and damage related to the production, dissemination, and consumption of even the soft core images Prager is referring to. The other is the damage to the psyche and well-being to a person with a high sex drive that is getting insufficient sexual outlets - like his devoted father or a disabled/disfigured person who is unable to have a loving relationship. So where it stays is that they both agree on what is ideal. Frad is saying anything other than the ideal is intolerable and forbidden. Prager is saying life is messy and we are all sinners and there are circumstances of minimal harm where we should be charitable and be more concerned with graver sins.

[@alexandergarner2615]

Reformed Baptist pastor here. I so much appreciate the stance by the Catholic here and share his theological position on this issue. Subscribed.

[@Thisshouldsufficeright]

@@alexandergarner2615 you’re going to LOVE his content. Especially the debates between Catholics and other Protestants

[@HopeSmyrna]

Reformed Baptist pastor here. I found both sides interesting, but left feeling that neither hit the mark.

[@jessicarowley6010]

I think his dad looking at porn shows how you can desensitize your children to sex. This is exactly why parents are concerned about sexual books in the schools and libraries.

[@tesladrew2608]

The easiest way to desensitize someone to sex is for them to have sex, then they realize how Meaningless it is

[@brittoncain5090]

@@tesladrew2608So the act that creates human beings is meaningless?

[@nightmareTomek]

Women with high body counts destroy their ability to form deep relationships. Because women often feel something for those they sleep with.

[@Ana_Cecilia615]

The problem too is that Dennis won't admit magazines featuring naked women are porn. It's a form of prostitution. If he thinks women in Playboy were just posing for photos, then he is either a coward that won't face the reality of the darkness behind it, or he has a serious problem with lust and won't admit it. Either way, he's not being honest with himself about why it's wrong. He is accountable to God with 613 laws and yet he wants to manipulate his way out of lust. It's really quite gross behavior to be proud of yourself for behaving well socially, but dwelling in dark and nastiness inside of you. I don't want a husband with that kind of mind. I'd rather be single and pure.

[@aalliaandreadis5109]

@@nightmareTomek this is true about men too. I've rejected promiscuous men repeatedly. It's disgusting. It's also very unmanly for a man to use women in that way and it shows that he separates his mind from his body easily and he disrespects his own body just as much as the bodies of women he has casual sex with. Yet this is the role model men have been fed by the powers that be through the media. In reality, a lot of promiscuous men have trouble connecting with women in bed, secretly hate them and some of these men come out as gay later in life. Sad but true.

[@KyleWhittington]

Matt, thank you for having the courage to stand up for the truth.

[@johnnastrom9400]

You mean standing up for his opinion.

[@KyleWhittington]

Thank you faceless stranger for sharing your own opinion of what you think that I meant.

[@TickleMeElmo55]

@@KyleWhittington Haha yea, Nastrom is a number of posts on this video being passive aggressive towards posters who back up Matt, saying that Catholics can't defend their "opinions" on porn. I mean, as if Nastrom himself has properly written up a rebuttal (which, most likely, he hasn't).

[@julius43461]

@Richard Head In what way does it points to Jesus? This made me curious.

[@iwacu123]

How is he “standing up for the truth?” God *created* male sexuality, it is totally normal, healthy and natural. Sick of this prudish and judgmental shaming of male sexuality. It’s so unhealthy, oppressive, against nature

[@reillycassel3574]

This was like reading the dialogue between Christ and the Pharisees. Christ taught us that sin is more than the physical action it is also intent. Prager even goes as far to say that the intent is not sin. This conversation has shown me that a life lived without belief in the Incarnation is depressing because a man will spend his days justifying the evil he holds within. Your work fighting pornography has led me to confronting addiction. Thank you very much Amazing job Matt.

[@bdavis423]

Well modern Judaism was created by the Pharisees.

[@nullus8717]

Funnily enough, it is indeed a dialogue with a *literal* Pharisee!

[@anneinohio8232]

Beautifully written, and an incredible insight.

[@Wonderpattypatty]

💯 🎯 👏👏👏

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Lol did you watch the video. Also you’re probably not addicted to pornography. This dude is a charlatan convincing you you have a disease so he can sell you the cure. Hm just like Christianity.

[@Jackfrost24]

Speaking as a Protestant I have never encountered ANYONE who would say stealing a stapler is the same as child molestation. Clearly the Old Testament teaches us that different sin results in different punishments. What I hope those people were trying to say is that ALL sin separate us from God and we ALL need a saviour, regardless of nature or frequency of sin

[@drakeaamold7577]

I was about to compliment this exactly. The scripture does not imply petty theft is as severe a sin as murder. It does however imply ALL sin separates us from God making us totally reliant on the work of Jesus as you stated. Sola fide brother

[@FadeRunner13]

You’ve just explained the reason the Catholic Church has what it classifies as venial and mortal sins

[@ungas024]

Some sins result in permanent death and some sins only damage a soul, this is basic Christian doctrine and can be backed up by scripture.

[@proxile_]

@@drakeaamold7577sole fide is from the pit of hell

[@anon8638]

​@@drakeaamold7577faith without works is dead

[@udmgraduate]

I’ve never been more proud of Matt Fradd than right here in this interview. He didn’t soft-pedal. He grew such a pair and stood up for the faith so strongly. Most masculine I’ve ever seen him.

[@gloryghassan1460]

This is his playground

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Dennis prager made him look like a brainwashed fool.

[@shellydickinson8598]

I agree! I wasn’t expecting much on his end but he really stepped up and stood his ground!!

[@raulrovelo5544]

@@gloryghassan1460 his years of working against porn really show here!

[@RegularHunter]

I mean. Matt's a masculine dude. I'm not sure why we’re setting the bar so low? I expected him to throw bombs

[@OPiguy35]

Thanks to Dennis for coming on the show! But Matt, thank you for defending the truth that porn is sinful and harmful to our souls and it’s perpetuation of evil beyond ourselves

[@rosehannah4845]

He actually cared about how it would hurt his wife instead of feeding his lustful desires. I was attracted to women since age 12 (bisexual) I prayed and prayed to be set free. I am free from this sin. We should not give in to our sins but pray for help to overcome. Jesus has the power to help us overcome sin. Prager cannot tap into this power as he doesn't have the Holy Spirit, he is a fleshly man, a natural man. The natural man is an enemy to God and cannot know God. The Holy Spirit however, can make a new heart in us, and now there are ads of naked women everywhere, and I have no lust. It's just looking at a sister. Thank God i'm free from that sin.

[@kendallandrews8691]

He absolutely bodied prager

[@SvanTowerMan]

@@rosehannah4845 Thank you for having the courage to see the error of your ways instead of seeing it as an identity like the world wants to teach.

[@cfradd]

Thanks for loving me Matt & not lusting after me!! 😊

[@Justgirliethings6]

You truly are blessed to have Matt ❤

[@steele8280]

Why is this not a pinned comment?

[@dandersen464]

Hahaha I saw this and didn’t see the name first and about lost it 😂

[@edwarddelman5287]

You guys are so awesome god bless you both

[@charlesthin4621]

Beet comment.

[@tele1311]

Dennis Prager‘s view on animated child pornography it’s absolutely disturbing and disgusting and I lose all respect for his views moving forward. Absolutely amazing how one man can destroy his career and followers in one. Stupid sentence.

[@Zebedeez_Nuts]

Yeah that was a bit clinical and warped how he put that. It’s not even scriptural what he was saying anyway. Isaiah 14 condemns evil thoughts. So does the 10th Commandment. Just goes to show how trying to be about the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law can and inevitably will begin take away jots and tittles from our understanding of it.

[@speedyplays2006]

I was totally shocked.

[@Bellatrys]

I believe that is what the Judaism telmud teaches. Same people spreading the LGTBQ..

[@ashleygrant3131]

@@tele1311 where’d he say this?

[@davidwagner5583]

Yeah that was a little disturbing.

[@CreationDesautels]

I am a marriage and family therapist and the damage of porn on marriages can not be overstated!

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

I can imagine. From every angle-- psychological, neurological, social, moral, ethical... there's just no defence for pornography.

[@creationdesautels9891]

@@Musicienne-DAB1995 Correct, there is no coherent moral defense for porn. Sadly, the sweeping normalization of porn has made it appear to harmless even to people of faith. And in faith communities that are reluctant to speak and shroud sex and sexual issues in silence and shame, porn is both rampant and wildly destructive!

[@AI-lr9sb]

Thank you for saying this.

[@CreationDesautels]

@@AI-lr9sb my pleasure. My clinical specialization is sex and sexuality. Not that many of us about, so I feel obligated to be vocal.

[@militantnormal428]

Which is worse than a sexless marriage where a woman withholds sex?

[@bingus2464]

Phenomenal performance by Matt, this entire conversation felt like Dennis trying to distance himself from positions that he does hold, and Matt not letting him get away with it. Well done

[@racheljames7]

Absolutely. It must have been a huge embarrassment for Prager knowing he's the guy who is defending wanking to porn (even in the cases of nonces viewing animated CP 🤮) and not the guy who is trying with all his might to be heroic and virtuous.

[@TrustJesus333]

Why does anyone listen to Mr. Prager? He is a liar, following his father, satan. It is not gray! He is not a child of God.

[@michaelinminn]

Yes! Dennis was doing 'okay ' until the end. Might be time for him to leave the memory of his doting mother and amoral father, and cross the Tiber.

[@ML-rd6ci]

Pornography should be absolutely avoided. From my personal experiences, it's toxic and good for nothing. Nobody should touch it.

[@TrustJesus333]

@@ML-rd6ci Thank you so much for The Truth.

[@samanthawise8991]

My husband was addicted to porn and I tried to justify it because it was hurting me and I didn’t know why. Now I understand why. When he looked at porn my thought were “How can he be attracted to me when I don’t look anything like the women in porn that arouse him?” “Why doesn’t he pursue me for sex? Why does he always go to porn before even asking if I’m in the mood too?” “I’m not enough. He wants these other woman and I will never be able to look like them.” “How can I compete with a buffet of women? If he wants a blonde, Boom there she is. If he wants big breasts, Boom there she is. I can’t be all of those things when ever he wants. I’m not a shapeshifter.” Now as follows of Jesus Christ we understand why porn is wrong and he has taken steps to deal with his addiction. Our sex life is so much better now because he is treating me like his wife and not as an object for his sexual pleasure. We are satisfied with each others pleasure instead of just our own. I no longer feel like I have to compete with other women.

[@mikepastor.k6233]

You should get someone that doesn't put porn and sex on such a high level. In reality is doesn't mean a lot and never used to. Only in a post ww2 era has pornography become what it is and made men into what they are..

[@kaitlint3987]

Glad to hear

[@andyzinterer2964]

@@mikepastor.k6233 It's crazy for you to tell someone to leave their husband based on reading a short paragraph. Especially when it ends with them working through a problem and having a stronger relationship because of it. Never give advice based on the presumption you know better than them.

[@justinmartin4662]

You sound like these guys, someone who loves to talk about their religion and how obedient they are at obeying it and it’s prophets while obviously not knowing really anything about what it actually says. If you think pornography is such a problem for women then you really should actually read your Bible and what it says about women and wives especially. I mean, who are you to even judge him at all considering how clear the Bible is that wives are supposed to be obedient to their husbands? It sounds like you want to be treated like an equal or something like a partner…. I don’t understand why you and probably 99%, literally if not 100% of so called Christians in the west claim to be religious and a follower of Jesus and then so obviously live by secular laws in a secular society that literally means it impossible to live as Jesus says to. If early Christians were like modern “Christians”, they never would have had a problem in Rome, never would have been persecuted or fed to lions.. What makes that even sadder or more ridiculous is that they and the Christians from then all the way to around the beginning of the enlightenment and even modern Africa obviously obeyed much of the commands and laws in the Bible, even though they were mostly illiterate, while you and pretty much every single so called believers today can read the scriptures and yet instead of obeying the laws and commandments you all either completely ignore them or make the most ridiculous excuses and mental gymnastics as to why it doesn’t say what it actually says. Like claiming Jesus and the religion are peaceful, even though their history is soaked in blood and Jesus himself states he didn’t come to bring peace, but the sword, and to turn families against each other so father turns against son and mother against daughter… because you know, when he says he didn’t come to bring peace what he really meant was that he did come to bring peace and the sword was simply just a metaphor… It couldn’t mean what it actually says and what Christians actually lived by for 1700 years at least… If you think porn is so bad why are you a member of a religion whose scripture says things like rapists should be punished by forcing them to marry the woman they raped? Porn might not be the best thing, but compared to what the Bible says it’s nothing..

[@justinmartin4662]

Also… Do you know what a father giving away the bride means at weddings? The Bible describes wives as literally being the property of the husband, the father is literally giving her away to the husband. The same reason why before divorce was made legal and socially acceptable if a man wanted to get rid of his wife he could and would literally take her to the market and sell her to another man. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_selling_(English_custom)

[@juliasquier3894]

I've been listening for 5 min and subscribed. Dennis displayed the typical human being's mental gymnastics of justifying themselves in thoughts and behaviors vs. Justification through Jesus's finished work and then letting The Holy Spirit guide you in love in all your relationships. What a stark difference. He can't seem to make the connection between lust and what it can lead to.

[@juliasquier3894]

Also, I appreciate your steadfastness in confronting his loose position that doesn't seem to be based in any teaching. The way you described sex as God designed is biblical and beautiful and Dennis misses it. So, he can say Man lying with another man is wrong but not other sexual immorality. You handled this topic, and every point he made seamlessly, staying true to Christian values as outlined in the Word.

[@Freethinkin14]

Jews happen to be the best at these mental gymnastics you speak of

[@DRSTRANGELOVEIN]

Having lived the life of a sexual deviant, I can promise you “it’s okay to make lust” is not a phrase I would tolerate in any church I’d be seen in.

[@currentlyAddictedToKebab]

well said, Dr. Strange Love

[@thefacelessquestion3333]

A woman once said "my husband doesn't mind where the hunger starts as long as I come home to EAT." what say you to this?

[@DRSTRANGELOVEIN]

@@thefacelessquestion3333 I’m not a hundred percent certain but I guess the analogy is saying “wether you love me or are just horny, so long as we have sex at the end.” If that is indeed what the analogy is referring to I’ll simply put it as this. Intent is everything. Matters of the spirit tend to revolve around the spirit. If an unmarried couple have not taken their vows, but truly love each other, they look upon each other with the grace and understanding of their Heavenly Father, and they express that love physically through sexual intercourse, I don’t see anything sinful in that. Inversely, if two people married twenty years, don’t talk to each other, don’t relate to each other, don’t even really like each other, but they both blow off steam by reducing themselves to base, primal, mutual masturbatory tools, there is something sinful about that.

[@thefacelessquestion3333]

@@DRSTRANGELOVEIN I don't think Matt's gonna agree with your first thought of an unmarried couple with "great intent" being intimate. I see your point tho

[@DRSTRANGELOVEIN]

@@thefacelessquestion3333 You have a point as well, it might be that such an idealized scenario is virtually impossible because of our fallen sinful nature. I personally feel that in those blind spots is where grace falls. And we must have grace for each other as all of us fall short.

[@HarrisonTheGrey]

Prager: "Here's an emotional example." Also Prager: "Don't bring up emotional examples."

[@mariapankrath5845]

Prager: "I'm not advocating porn!" But then he's saying porn is ok🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@kadenkohl782]

Gradually i began to hate them

[@comicsans1689]

@@mariapankrath5845 The tribe always advocates for porn.

[@lolboy546]

It wasn't an emotional example. He was asking Matt what the husband should do in that situation.

[@Texasguy316]

I can assure you even 80-90% of men who watch pornography acknowledge it’s evil and feel ashamed afterwards. It’s why they hide it. Defending pornography as “not evil” is absurd. Seriously. Pray for those who are tempted.

[@pitfighter871]

its not evil. no matter how much you imply it is. its the shame ONTOP the compulsive behavior that makes people so exhausted they cant go find people to be in a relationship with this shame alone makes it evil. because the evil is the undue and unwieldy restraint that leads yo a broken life. the detriment alone is crippling, adding embarrassment upon, enforces a guilt- matrix so complex that alter egos are created to "appear" valuble, which guarantees the behavior by creating self-policed people who are operating within a society of restrict victorian codes (codes the aristocracy enforce and happily break and mock privately) repressing and falsely appearing to their friends and neighbors while they have a high sex drive, btw, unlike others who have low sex drives, easy to say its wrong when you have no dog on the fight. furthermore the shame makes ones hide for fear of failure to live to the standards and so they adopt a persona that isnt aligned with their true drives all to justify a culture that benifits (rewards) those who are either good at lying about sex or have little to no sex drive meanwhile the supposed Christian society is the highest consumer of sex and its no mystery and the hypocrisy isnt suprising. because its all demonic to use the shame against each other but why is it necessary? if a healthy life was within reach wouldnt it be affordable? food, education, self-employment. my point is not only is The US not Christian as it claims. but it is actively Satanic, demonic, and inhumane and sadistic to people who are uninitiated and outside of wealth

[@HaydurLovesU]

Meh, not in my experience: the ones I’ve known were proud of their “collections”, sharing it with friends, and coercing their female partners to re-enact what they saw in corn with threats of “I’ll cheat on you if you don’t comply”. They don’t care. Now many of them openly admit they’d prefer secks robots and artificial wombs over women, even the conservative ones.

[@emanuelbotello23]

You never watch it and say yeah that was great. It’s shameful not because society deems it, but because at the root of it is pervasive way of looking at another human being. It’s reducing a person doing these acts of pleasure as an object for self gratification. The act of union is marred by one self satisfaction. Your are saying no to God by using a gift given to share in creation, to do as you please. It’s an abomination and those who do not see it that way have convinced themselves that their sin is not a sin.

[@marshallmussarela943]

​@@pitfighter871It's still evil

[@Mindmartyr]

It's evil & absurd.

[@athanasius333]

The difference between lust and sexual desire is this: Lust controls you and can't be satisfied. Sexual desire doesn't control you and can be satisfied.

[@imyourhuckleberry1040]

Both control you and both can be satisfied.

[@wispfire2545]

Well spoken!

[@athanasius333]

@@imyourhuckleberry1040 Human experience says otherwise. I'm not sure why you would think that.

[@SeekTruth-ts2hm]

@@athanasius333 What you called lust here is actually passion and that is not connected to what the Christian Churches for the last 1900 years have condemned, namely sexual desire itself manifested by couples engaging without procreation in mind and self release (masturbation). The scriptures do not have such a concept of lust as used by the Christian church for 1900 years. Matt 5:28 does not speak of lust but covetousness.

[@Candlewood]

@@SeekTruth-ts2hm I wasn’t commenting on Matthew 5:28 or the Church’s historic position. I was talking about the human condition and what we have learned about it. I suppose you could say I was backing up the Church’s position with additional information. Married couples can experience passion without the compulsion to have sex with others. Intense desire between man and wife is something quite different than that experienced by someone with a sex addiction or someone moving in that direction. I first heard the concept discussed by a Christian psychologist and it was based on his own research. My conversations with other men and some often-repeated observations have confirmed what I have said here.

[@catolico97]

My wife and I just watched this video together and couldn’t be more proud of the amazing responses Matt gave Dennis. Thank you Matt for defending women dignity and the sanctity of marriage .

[@Bluemoon98-2]

At what point Dennis didn’t not defend women dignity and sanctity or at what point he showed the opposite?

[@Conky-or8ic]

LoL. Meanwhile your wife is cheating behind your back.

[@jrgarciab]

I think Dennis' comments about his father's magazine subscription were off putting. But other than that, he never said it was OK to treat a woman in an undignified way. The Catholic unwilling to please his wife in a small way seemed undignified. Keep in mind, there was no mention of kink or any kind of immoral behavior. If a young man about to get married watched this, I think he might walk away confused by the Catholic's arguments.

[@ZapparoniWorks]

@@Bluemoon98-2 The part where he defended porn.

[@Bluemoon98-2]

@@ZapparoniWorks I will watch it again to see where he defined port. ..I do not think k he did . The second guy kept referring g to everything as porn and sin. Where Denis makes distinguish netizen. Levels, not because he think some porn are okay ..because in realty you have to choose what to go after . It is not fair to say he demanding work or because the second guy think everything is sin..he on the other hand hero the defend women dignity.

[@jessicareasor8577]

Matt, everything you've said here is spot on. My husband had an adulterous affair last year, and it was largely due to, I believe, his lifelong addiction to porn. It was slowly poisoning our marriage for years, until last year when he finally acted on those desires. Our marriage is falling apart, and I am completely heartbroken. Porn destroys men and then it destroys families. That's a hill I will die on.

[@raechelpalmer6482]

My heart breaks with you, I'm so sorry you have had to go through that.

[@efreshwater5]

So sorry, Jessica. My first wife was an adulteress. I'll pray for you and just know that you will heal. It will take time and it is not fun, but you will heal.

[@jenns6063]

I am so sorry, Jessica. You will be in my prayers.

[@lisaarenholz1464]

Praying for you, sister.

[@markperez9002]

Well said

[@mvvss429]

This interview makes me so grateful for Catholic teaching, especially regarding the dignity of man. Great job Matt!

[@tromboneman4517]

As someone that struggles with it, I HATE Porn. And I hate that I’ve let it have its way with me carelessly for years. I’m fighting it now but it’s hard. I will NEVER justify my sin. I hate it and weep over it because I want to be married and love/serve a real woman.

[@Ux1.73c]

Do not be a slave to your desires.

[@prolifegenzgal]

As a woman, I'm incredibly proud of you for taking accountability and doing the work to be ready for your future wife. God's got you and you will win the battle 😊.

[@ChaseJackson94]

Matt, this was a perfect example of humble, loving correction. You sacrificed your social comfort and potential strain of friendship for Dennis’ good. Thank you for modeling this.

[@adennyh]

Dennis argued that he had seen his parents marriage going well despite his dad openly consuming porn. Does he really know what his mom had been feeling about it though? Or perhaps it's just that his mom never brought up how she really felt? I am highly skeptical that anybody could be genuinely fine seeing his/her spouse lusting over another person. They might tolerate it, but tolerating is different than genuinely being fine with it...

[@zapazap]

I guess all we can do is speculate. But I would assume that Prager would be in the better position to observe than any of us. Cheers!

[@OneSparrow-76]

@@zapazap, you have really no idea how much hurt a woman can disguise for the love of a man…especially in the time period they would have been living…

[@zapazap]

@@OneSparrow-76 It is still sheer speculation that hurt was a factor in this case. Also, is not 'disguising' here a species of 'lying'? Cheers!

[@zapazap]

@@OneSparrow-76 Friends: it is not amazing how much a person can presume to know about someone they never met? Cheers!

[@orchadorkification]

I had the same thought. A child is not equipped to really accurately observe the feelings of his parents. His mother may have tolerated it BECAUSE she loved her husband and simply didnt want to wreck her family. But as a married woman, I would struggle to believe any woman would really not care at all, Christian, Jew, or otherwise.

[@frankharet8865]

Matt crushed this - great job, very impressed with how articulate Matt is.

[@leegrant7333]

YOu mean how smart he is

[@pera.j.andersson]

Articulate? Smart? With all this cigar smoking?

[@pintswithaquinas]

12 quotes from my book, The Porn Myth: 1. “This book rests on one fundamental presupposition: if you want something to flourish, you need to use it in accordance with its nature. Don’t plant tomatoes in a dark closet and water them with soda and expect to have vibrant tomato plants. To do so would be to act contrary to the nature of tomatoes. Similarly, don’t rip sex out of its obvious relational context, turn it into a commodity, and then expect individuals, families, and society to flourish.” 2. “Which activity sounds more ‘mature’ and grown-up: making love for a lifetime to one real flesh-and-blood woman whom you are eagerly serving and cherishing, despite all her faults and blemishes (and despite your own), or sneaking away at night to troll the Internet, flipping from image to image, from one thirty-second teaser to another, for hours on end, pleasuring yourself as you bond to pixels on a screen?” 3. “In a letter to a friend, Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis offered some insights about masturbation. He said that a man’s sexual appetite is meant to lead him out of himself, to lead him into being a self-gift that both completes and corrects his personality-first by sharing whole-life oneness with a lover and second by procreating children. With masturbation, however, the appetite is turned in on itself and ‘sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides’.” 4. “Whatever we might say about the exact relationship of porn to sexual violence, it should be clear that in order for men to violate a woman’s body, some part of them must first believe she is an object to be used rather than a person to be respected-and porn is quite possibly the most powerful means of delivering that belief.” 5. “Sex and porn addictions are realities, and just as with alcoholism or drug addiction, the label ‘addict’ does not excuse a person for his actions. Addiction is slavery, to be sure, but it is a chosen slavery. Addicts find freedom not by denying the power that porn has over them, not by denying that their addiction is real, but by admitting it to others and asking for help.” 6. “With the increasing availability of pornography has come an increase in the number of cases of sexual performance issues, such as erectile dysfunction (ED), among young men…A 2012 Swiss study found that 30 percent of males ages eighteen to twenty-four have some form of ED, and a Canadian study published a couple of years later reported that 27 percent of sixteen- to twenty-one-year-olds have this problem.” 7. “Married life no more cures a porn addiction than winning the lottery cures a gambling addiction. A person so trained on the pornographic experience isn’t merely after a good orgasm. He is hooked on the anticipation of what comes next, the rush of moving from one object of desire to the next, one body to the next, always looking to trade the one in front of his eyes for what he hopes will be the ultimate sexual experience.…In gambling, the addiction is not to the money but to the high that results from chasing the money. Giving a gambling addict money only fuels the habit, because he is addicted to the feeling that gambling gives him…Porn addicts are hooked on the high they get from chasing after sexual fantasies. The unrealistic expectations that are fed by porn are what carry over into and destroy relationships, because no person can live up to the on-demand, anything-goes sex depicted in movies. When faced with the inevitable difficulties of establishing and maintaining a human relationship, it is much easier for a porn addict to opt for the instant relief of virtual sex. Marriage will not fix a pornography habit, but a pornography habit will likely destroy a marriage.” 8. “Izabella St. James, one of [Hugh Hefner’s] former girlfriends, lived with him in the [Playboy] mansion for two years and shares in explicit detail the day-in, day-out happenings of Hef’s lifestyle in her book, Bunny Tales: Behind Closed Doors of the Playboy Mansion. Her description of Hef’s orgies is telling. The icon of sexual liberation needed Viagra, multiple women, and finally pornography in order to experience a sexual climax. If a harem of real-life porn stars isn’t enough to satisfy a porn-imbued libido, what makes us think an average woman can compete?” 9. “But what if the mechanics of arousal and pleasure are not the essence of better sex? What if the Big O of sex is not orgasm, but oneness? What if the best sex is about bonding and connecting to another person?” 10. “To help our children to grow up in a pornified world, we must take the double-pronged strategy of both protecting their minds and preparing their character…A child who never suffers the consequences of his bad choices will soon learn that he can get away with anything. A child who never learns to respect authority will soon come to believe that all rules and guidelines are nothing but arbitrary standards that can be discarded for any momentary pleasure. Such a child is ripe for porn when he stumbles upon it. This is why children should grow up in homes where there are clear rules and expectations.” 11. “One of the reasons many people find it difficult to break free from porn and remain free is that they confuse sexual desire with a craving for pornography. Whatever protocols you put in place to distance yourself from pornography, remember: the goal is not the long-term squelching of sexual desire. The goal is the healing of your sexual cravings so that you can pursue them in a manner that pushes you toward a healthy and satisfying marital relationship.” 12. “French novelist Virginie Despentes has reportedly said that consuming pornography does not lead to more sex; it leads to more porn…Porn promises freedom, but it enslaves us. It promises excitement, but it ends up boring us. It promises us ‘adult’ entertainment, yet it makes us increasingly juvenile. It promises intimacy, but leads to isolation. The good news is that freedom is possible and something so much better awaits us on the other side.”

[@richarddeerflame]

im gonna purchase your book sir and Evangelise... I went through hell with it... i'm saved by the Fathers Grace .... time for me to carry and pass on the light to those who are indeed slaves to Porn.... Do Gods Will. It's high time we actually do Gods Will.

[@mcspinixvids3875]

Wouldn't the best sex be that which attempts to create life, not just oneness with your partner? Or does onesness entail creating life?

[@djohn9737]

@@mcspinixvids3875 When two people get married, each make vows to the Lord to love each other, want the best for each other and treat each other as themselves. A oneness with the Lord, a covenant, is created that day of the wedding. When the marital act occurs, oneness should be preeminent to honor the relationship, with the openness to the creation of life as secondary.

[@Refiningforge]

@@mcspinixvids3875 life created is a result of the oneness experienced

[@joshuasy10]

Not quite as snappy as Jordan's 12 rules but still good lol.

[@vinniecox874]

I am an extremely loyal Pints fan. Watched every episode. While I appreciate Matt always erring on the side of charity, I am absolutely thrilled to see him embrace some confrontation here. What an absolutely splendid defense of God’s commandments. This has finally swayed me to become a paid subscriber on locals.

[@bobclift444]

Welcome to the club!

[@anzot6903]

Confrontation is not contrary to charity. In fact, in our society, we err so close to the side of niceness that we are often uncharitably leaving our brothers in their sin to wallow and fester. Shame on us.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

@@anzot6903 Well-said. However, I don't think he meant charity. There's a better word for it somewhere. Agreeableness? 🤔

[@davidmcpike8359]

"on the side of charity" -- i.e., on the side of wishy-washy pious-sentimental bullshit? He's a good host, could be a better philosopher.

[@housecry]

​@@MeanBeanComedy Charity means love. Love of God for his own sake and love of neighbor as ourselves. I'm assuming he's using the word as Catholics use it.

[@carniedph]

For those watching this debate: There was a 6 month period where I lived by what Prager was saying. It completely messed up my life. Fradd is 100% right.

[@Talos_The_King]

I still struggle with porn and it's been really bad for my marriage. I don't think Prager understands the consequences of his words or of justifying porn.

[@doneuplikeakipper6512]

The jewish revolutionary spirit is always subversive. Thank you so much Matt for standing up to him and take his mask off for everyone to see

[@IsraelCountryCube]

Same it's nothing to bragging about. I've said it hundreds of times because I objectively want it to be felt as compelled evidence by my testimony and obviously male. It is 99% male practically. Realistically who suffer more. There's atheists that can seemingly abandoned pornography and realize that it's harmful but I don't know if it's easier or harder for them withought God. But since I've been a 11 year old male pornography up to age 20 has all since then destroyed my life. I've never felt the sexual touch of a female. My mother by proxy of course being brithed and I guess other than my father in moments of procreation. I'm strange but I don't think so. Although sin has corrupted me I realize that Jesus Christ has made me whole..and atheist conservativitism is thievery from and against Christianity! I feel compassionate regardless with any male who *realizes pornography is more than evil but Malevolent!* I'm not a female so I wouldn't really typical care so much because as logically as I think about it..if males consumption of pornography are reduced then actually I automatically advocate for females who also wouldn't become so abused. Nor would males from any human also sexually abused. Amen it's hard to kill pornography. And lust. But I'm gonna do what Jesus CHRIST SAID AND THAT'S TO STARVE HUMAN BODY AND PRAY!!! Christianity is to be taken seriously! I'm no longer willing wanting to exist *withought* Serious Action. And prayer. A shame prayer has been taken out of public school. Indeed a objectively mistake which proves to be true a error. Church and state are harmful. Since thousands Christian churches have closed. Ironically proven to be truly harmful to Christianity. Atheism and islam false. Wether they love it or not. God demands we look for truth. And it's very lame I don't see Giants of Christianity going after the most hateful religious tenants of atheism! Every aspect of human nature has a religion. Atheism is no different..they believe in God the Christian subconsciously and of course because they hate him so easily proven. And also although they acknowledge he exists withought knowing it outwardly with words and thoughts by partly thinking how loving he is. They worship other smaller gods of course. Loki thor movies. Irony is everything bad evil Malevolent and everywhere. Pornography though in the objective eyes of man as it should become a Malevolent goddess of death. That demon will be slayed at which time Heaven will become on earth! Amen!

[@kamesojeefe7244]

Then you were not living by what Prager is saying. He's anti porn. You just, as do many uniformed people reading your comment, want to hate him.

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

​@@Talos_The_Kinghe may very well. But you cant trust jews, they preach one thing and do the other

[@marygassman-baltierra3530]

Dennis is desperately trying to justify the sins of his father. He needs to stop looking at his earthly father for what is right and wrong; he should look towards his Heavenly Father. Looking at another person's nakedness while you are married is sinful.

[@Freethinkin14]

His heavenly father is not the same as Christianity.... That's why Jesus told the Pharisees that they were of their father ,the devil. Jesus already broke this stuff down.

[@pkredbrooke1772]

My respect and admiration for Matt has gone through the roof. Not easy debating with Dennis and keeping it dignified and kind. Ultimately Dennis feels there is a place for pornography in the world, not so, its all evil. Well done Matt.

[@johnnastrom9400]

"pornography in the world, not so, its all evil" -- No. Why don't you explain what it is "all evil"? Because you can't.

[@marvalice3455]

@@johnnastrom9400 oh sure I can. evil is a privation of the good. porn is evil because it preys upon the weaknesses of both the performer and the consumer to degrade them. it degrades the subject, because it takes what should be private intimate parts of their life shared with someone who loves them to strengthen that bond, and turns them into a commodity to enrich others. by doing so, it inflicts further evil by deminishing that persons self worth, their reputation, and their future prospects. habitually making oneself the subject of porn causes a person to see their intimacies as cheep, and lose their sense of dignity. it also inflicts evil on the consumer by preying on their vices and encouraging compulssive behavior which lkeaves the consumer more vulnerable to oither forms of exploitation. habitual use limits a persons will power, desnsitizes them to increasingly unnaturalk situations, and lowers their ability to endure hardship gracefully. all of this is without even touching how ubiquitous human tarafficing is n the industry, or how many rapists and murderers report having been addicted to porn before doing anything illegal. it's evil. just because you enjoy it doesn't make it acceptable.

[@sethgyan]

I don't think he says it's good. I think he means context is more important. His definition of porn is quite nuanced.

[@TickleMeElmo55]

@@johnnastrom9400 What makes you think the poster can't unless you see no issue with porn - in mainstream entertainment and online.

[@Thagomizer]

What about the Cerne Abbas Giant? Would that qualify?

[@davidrojas6457]

So Prager is basically saying he's primarily concerned with maintaining a nebulous, mediocre, and relatively neutral sense of "good". This is why I'm so glad to be Catholic, because we aim to be with the highest of highs, never satisfied with the neutral "good" of this world. And while some might say that is unattainable, we have clear examples of the contrary. Never settle, my friends!

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Prager is literally modelling the Pharisees talking to Jesus by refusing to accept that God has updated the rules. Faith counts for a lot now, not merely action. He knows this to be true as he's effectively said it is an ideal but admitting it would be him converting to Christinity. Fradd mightve completely finished him off if he asked, 'Does God not want us to constantly pursue the highest ideals?'

[@50toinfinityatleast]

As Catholics, our hope is to become saints. And we are definitely never called to be mediocre in the faith. I have not watched this yet, but in reading the comments, I can’t wait to hear Matt.

[@ThatOneFam]

Your comment is awesome. Thank you for taking the time.

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

There are Jews who disagree with what Dennis Prager has said.

[@ThatOneFam]

@@Musicienne-DAB1995 That's comforting.

[@SuprahBeebz]

This debate really makes me thankful for Aristotle and Aquinas as logical powerhouses for framing these debates. Matt thanks for being so humble and letting the Holy Spirit work through you. I’m praying for Mr. Prager that he has his Damascus moment.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

He’s not humble at all. He’s dogmatic and prudish. He’s a busybody.

[@gillethsandico]

AMEN!

[@SuprahBeebz]

can you provide some literature to advance your point?

[@johnnastrom9400]

" I’m praying for Mr. Prager that he has his Damascus moment." -- And I am praying Christians will come to their senses and focus on the real evils of the world and not about men having sexual thoughts.

[@SuprahBeebz]

@John Nastrom as summarized by Mr. Fradd: porn, lust, masturbation, and improper use of means is the evil with varying levels of morality. Not “sexual thoughts” in general. There is a difference. They discuss ordered sexual nature between married man and women.

[@annchovey2089]

So disappointed in Dennis. Lost a lot of respect for him.

[@SarahRekowski]

As a young Catholic woman, I was very put off by much of what Mr. Prager said. He was very ambiguous and most of what he shared was just plain creepy. I am glad this debate aired so we now know how we can pray for this gentleman. Hats off to you Matt for defending the Catholic teaching and hopefully educating many who have been misled. God bless!

[@rosehannah4845]

His poor wife. Despicable behavior. Jesus: "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Prager needs repentance. His excuse that all men HAVE to have variety is unexcusable is not love for your wife. His poor wife.

[@Thagomizer]

​@@rosehannah4845 Jesus also said "If your right hand should cause you to sin, it is better to cut it off and throw it away", "If anyone does not hate his father and mother and all of his brothers and sisters he is incapable of being my disciple", and "I came not bring peace, but a sword", so it's pretty clear that we can't take everything he said at face value.

[@Nacny215]

@@johnnastrom9400 why would you tell a Catholic to watch the videos of an atheist Jew? All truth lies with God. Nothing factual can come from an anti-Christ in regards to Jesus, it’s just the opining of man. And if you say the apostles were just men, yes, but they were given the power of the Holy Spirit to continue the work of Jesus.

[@Nacny215]

@@Thagomizer your point of scripture is completely out of context and understanding.

[@comicsans1689]

​@@Thagomizer "If your right hand should cause you to sin, it is better to cut it off and throw it away" Jesus is telling us to cut out sinful temptations and occasions of sin from our lives. "If anyone does not hate his father and mother and all of his brothers and sisters he is incapable of being my disciple" Jesus is telling us that following him will put us at odds with the world and even our own family. Sacrifice is a key principle in Christianity "I came not bring peace, but a sword" Jesus wasn't a hippy coming to spread the summer of love like many supposed Christians believe. What Jesus was teaching was such a revolutionary doctrine that it stirred up a lot of conflict and strife. Our Lord caused a great deal of commotion in Jerusalem. It turns out that a lot of people back then, and even to this day, are not ready to detach from sin, love their neighbor, or to bear their cross. "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Jesus is warning us that indulging in wicked thoughts will put us on the path to wickedness. If a man constantly indulges lustful thoughts in his mind about other women, he is going to neglect his wife, or at the very least not treat her with the full love and respect that she deserves. He will have one foot out the door at all times, waiting for the opportunity to finally indulge in his lustful thoughts. And if a man is single, this is still sinful because indulging in lustful thoughts will tempt the man into sin. Deliberately allowing yourself to be tempted into sin is a sin in itself.

[@heavymetalmusichead4969]

I am convinced that Prager's defense of porn is a defense of his own sin.

[@MrSmith-zy2bp]

Look into who runs the p*rn industry. You'll find more coincidences there.

[@lapinchechismosa]

Those types are always guilty

[@wvw_one]

Yep… just take a look at his friends too, brother.

[@BestMom96]

I see it as a defense of his upbringing. If he was raised that something was okay, he’s not going to find issue with it. Is it still wrong? I believe it is.

[@mider9996]

where did he defend porn?

[@s7m21b3]

Matt- you are strong in heated debates. Don’t shy away from them, you did well.

[@randomworkings3600]

I’m more and more impressed with Matt the more I watch him. He has such a gift for engaging in conversation and debate regardless of his own views. Here is he of course actually arguing his own beliefs as he disagrees with Dennis. However, Matt is also great as prodding and posing difficult questions to those he agrees with as well. He’s a great thinker!

[@leegrant7333]

He's strong because of the intelligence of his Faith

[@michelletemplespa2500]

Pornography opens doors to demons

[@Zebedeez_Nuts]

Which ones?

[@fredbeck8011]

I heard Father Jim Blount (Exorcist) say something similar.

[@gooddaysahead1]

Don't forget elves, witches, and vampires.

[@jabronimemes2855]

@@gooddaysahead1 make sure you don't wear mixed fabrics, that opens the windows for gremlins

[@gooddaysahead1]

@@jabronimemes2855 humans are the weirdest organisms.

[@jaupper]

Dennis doesn’t seem to recognize that porn/masterbation in most cases leads to more serious evil. Evil begets evil. Sin begets sin.

[@Mk-qb2ny]

No it doesn't

[@tigran1993]

Dennis is a Marxist/Communist what you expect.

[@tylere.8436]

Depends if you are proud of your sins. I don't think a lot of guys and gals out there masturbating are doing it with glee and pride, it's depravity and sadness. It's why most don't go out in public and ask others if they masturbate, they would feel shame.

[@markislivingdeliberately]

His point is… what if it doesn’t and you never cheat on your wife. THAT is what matters most. Again, Jews are concerned with actions and deeds. They aren’t pretending to have no bad thoughts so they can go to heaven. They don’t believe in heaven or hell. Those are found on earth during your lifetime. So Christian’s live more in their feelings and head and Jews live in the real world. Which is the best way? Dunno. But they’re different perspectives and I think should probably both be respected.

[@PointReflex]

@@tylere.8436 No one goes to public asking random people if they masturbate because 90% of the human race already masturbates or enjoys lust in a defacto way. Nor people goes out asking married couples if they had sex that week nor in what position, it is assumed that it happens due to experience in life. Plus, masturbating or having lust for others, even to the point of reaching some kind of plathonic love, is not depravity nor sadness, in reality is an expression of a very simple impulse from the mind that we inherit from our ancestors, reproduction. For every "I truly love you" there is the desire to have sex, that's a given in any kind of people (exceptions my vary), therefore is a normal impulse. The problem starts when a group in sociery, specialy with political or religious power, starts to hack out those pleasures, forcing an entire group of people to restrain themselves from enjoying their private lifes.

[@podawe8051]

Dennis is so obviously wrong here it's amazing watching him try to defend it

[@coolpilot5694]

On porn, yes, at the beginning, no. I don't see what's so bad about lingerie in the context of marriage.

[@racheljames7]

​@@coolpilot5694 I'm more concerned with what he said about pedophiles jerking off to animated CP. Any respect he had left there was flushed straight down the toilet.

[@missnthrop5763]

When will Christians realize their their views are never going to align with a Jew or Muslim or Hindu, etc. Debating as if common ground can be found is ludicrous. Just accept the fact that the beliefs are different and treat one another with respect, it's really not that complicated.

[@coolpilot5694]

@@missnthrop5763 I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. In terms of religious people vs. atheists, it would make sense for the differences to be nearly absolute. But when one half of the Bible is the Torah, Jews and Christians are going to necesarily have a lot of overlap in views.

[@ethanml33]

@@coolpilot5694 Jews don't follow the Torah, they follow the Talmud. Look at what Jesus says about Talmudim. These people rejected Christ and followed the Talmud and the Pharasees for 2000 years, there are consequences to rejecting truth

[@robertolson7076]

Matt, you presented yourself with kindness, patience, and with charity. Thank you.

[@jz1528]

Honestly it’s dialogue like this that me and my fellow gen z fellas are craving for, most of us are honestly growing out of the old material on YT all the pranksters and gamers, a lot of zoomers still like that but honesty I’ve noticed a lot of dudes in my generation moving into podcasts like Pints with Aquinas

[@carinesabourin68]

Great job Matt! As a woman and as a wife, THANK YOU, for helping restore the sacredness of procreation and defending the dignity of women.

[@Prince_Sheogorath]

What about the dignity of MEN? Circumcision is male genital mutilation and men don't even own their own penises. We're treated like masochistic beasts of burden and many people do not even care - just seeing men as tools to use, and when they have dysfunctions, we shame and blame them. Circumcision. Genital mutilation. It's misandrist mutilation that needs to be banned on minors. The film, "American Circumcision", by Brendon Marotta, needs to be viewed en masse, too. A preverbal somatic trauma, an adverse childhood event. Look up Dr. Peter Levine of Somatic Experiencing, Irene Lyon, Gabor Mate - what you do to babies matter. This country mutilates boys' genitals then asks them to fight and die and sacrifice for it? Men and boys are treated like slaves and boys are trained form birth to be masochistic blue pilled beasts of burden. Mutilate a boy's genitals, then force him into Selective Service as an extra "thank you". Such "Liberty and Freedom". What bullshit. Foregen is a biotech company that is reversing circumcision with regenerative medicine. Look them up. ~12-14 sq. inches of densely innervated highly erogenous healthy tissue. Over 6500 species of mammals have foreskins. These animals don't make soap, have running water or live in the suburbs - dogs, bats and whales do not suffer. European men, Japanese men, the majority of the world's men do not suffer. MEN SHOULD OWN THEIR OWN COCKS. Circumcision is male genital mutilation, a human rights violation that degrades and reduces sexual pleasure. Foregen, within the next year will have fully reverse circumcision with regenerative medicine. The underlying technology is already approved, phase 2 of 3 animal trials is almost concluded, phase 3 of 3 human trials starts soon, and well over $1 Million dollars and counting have been donated with many loyal monthly donors. BOYS SHOULD OWN THEIR OWN COCKS. Americans need to learn how to take care of intact baby boys. They're not dirty. The foreskin is fused to the head of the penis at birth, many in the USA do not know that, even healthcare "professionals", so they forcibly retract the foreskin and cause a tear in the baby boy's foreskin which is painful, causes bleeding, injury, scar tissue, an a higher likelihood of phimosis, inability for the foreskin to retract at a later age because of the scar tissue making the foreskin less elastic. By age 7, 40% of USA boys have been forcibly retracted and injured! (Source: Intact America website) AMERICAN IGNORANCE CAUSES FORESKIN ISSUES. Europe knows better, they know that the foreskin is fused to the head of the penis until around age 10.5 on average, it is there to protect the penis like the girl's hymen protects her vaginal canal from waste products like urine and feces. The foreskin is adhered to the glans head of the penis like the nail is adhered to the finger. USA healthcare workers are NOT TAUGHT THIS, they are taught that boys ought to be mutilated because they are dirty. American ignorance causes foreskin issues. Further, the inside of the foreskin has the same cells as the inside of the eyelids, mouth and vagina - the inner mucosal lining. You do NOT use soap, that disrupts the pH balance because soap is basic, and the inner mucosal lining is slightly acidic. This also dries out the inner mucosal lining and causes irritation and foreskin issues! AMERICAN IGNORANCE from forcible retraction and the use of soap is the problem. You only clean what is seen, and with lukewarm water. Women do not use soap inside of the vagina. Americans are ignorant about the male anatomy and most men do not know what they are missing in this country. It's uncomfortable, but we need to end this garbage.

[@loganblackwood2922]

Defending the dignity? Women have continuously voted to do away with shame so that they could pretend to have dignity no matter how depraved they act.

[@stephtimms1776]

Amen. He represented the Christian viewpoint well.

[@loganweaver5404]

@@stephtimms1776hb

[@werkzeugmann6224]

We just need to stop women abusing their brothers by exploiting mens sexual weakness.. Why would a woman show herself naked to a brother? They knowingly exploit mens weakness for their own enrichment... That's not loving their brother, that's exploiting their brothers natural tendencies to want sex--Women should STOP IT!

[@Wonderpattypatty]

“I think that pornography trains us in selfishness“ bravo, Matt!!! 👏👏👏

[@thecarlitosshow7687]

Christ made this clear in the Spiritual interpretation of "Thou shalt not commit adultery." It is selfishness.

[@bluesdealer]

@@thecarlitosshow7687literally nobody here advocated for adultery. Masturbation is not adultery. How absurd

[@brittoncain5090]

@@bluesdealerI wouldn't call it adultery, but it's still a form of sexual misconduct in a marriage.

[@CyberFighter-hu7xo]

I think that female emancipation creates the need for pornography’

[@Ari-xv8qr]

Matt, one of the things I love about you is how careful you are with terms. A precise use of language is delightful to witness.

[@Zebedeez_Nuts]

That’s a funny way to call someone politically correct. He is. It’s really annoying. Obviously he is full of sh*t. No one who is PC isn’t

[@MerryMayhem]

This is sort of shocking to me. I never dreamed Dennis Prager would hold a position like this.

[@InExcelsisDeo24]

Totally unsurprising

[@DMacLean15]

I’m not that shocked by it. Did you know that a rabbi owns PornHub? Look it up if you don’t believe me. Jews love pornography.

[@kathyhansen2820]

I'm not shocked at all.

[@Sunshine-bh1ww]

He's disgusting I feel sorry for his wife

[@kathyhansen2820]

@@Sunshine-bh1ww I've lost respect for him.

[@nojo1986]

MATT. THANK YOU. SANITY. As your average woman in 2023 who has been scathed by pornography in my life and marriage, I think by just hearing Matt defend the dignity of women and children, I have healed more from this interview than I have in years of therapy. THANK YOU.♥️

[@cheyk.6153]

Well said!!!!!!

[@nojo1986]

@Upper Class Homosexual many of the women and individuals in porn are being trafficked and abused.

[@alicevill2259]

@UpperclassHomosexual what??? Porn makes people rape kids, only you don't know cause most of the kids don't talk. All this perversion if it didn't exist we wouldn't have all this different sexualy perverted ideas such as gender ideology. I was 4 years old when I found my parents porn you can't come back from that. Porn is evil. Too much musterbation castrated me no longer can have a decent orgasm. Not to mention the fact that I grew up thinking I was into girls and I was in a wrong body. I blame pornography for destroying innocence and families

[@regaliaretailfashionmerch4314]

​​@Upper Class Homosexual that's untrue. Porn increases sexually deviant behavior. This is what studies show. This is what Bundy confessed to. You're creating a false dichotomy to defend the porn industry. Stop spreading lies

[@justinmartin4662]

You’re joking right? If you think porn is bad how can you not have a problem with a religion or it’s scriptures that have caused so many innocent people to be killed for the most ridiculous reasons for over 1000 years? Do you have any idea how much damage was done by Christians when they burned down the library of Alexandria in the 4th century and flayed the women there to death because they were studying “witchcraft”? If you think the modern religion these guys represent is anything close to what the scriptures actually say it’s supposed to be and how it was for well over 1000 years until the enlightenment and secular revolutions started making people sane again. From the people of Salem demanding the clergy stop killing what we now know to be innocent people, to the ending of slavery, and now the pope even saying the religion actually doesn’t have a problem with people being gay or getting married and joining the church after 1700 years of persecution and violence towards them…. All while the scripture remains the same, with all those death penalties still there, including simply for being gay and the commands for believers to enforce those laws or be sent to a lake of fire… It should be obvious by now to anyone who cares enough to actually learn about the religion and it’s history that it’s very much man made and the drastic changes over the past four centuries has been on a public level with the churches then eventually jumping on the bandwagon at the tail end while claiming to have been those directing the change… Even though it’s obvious they do so only after kicking and screaming and while it directly contradicts what their own god supposedly says in their scripture.

[@wendyfaustin8269]

Matt I’m an Evangelical but thank you so much for defending purity!!

[@DFMoray]

Why do you feel the need to proclaim that you are an evangelical?

[@Ezekiel336-16]

​@@DFMoray Perhaps as a sign of sincerity, and not just blind agreement like some of us Catholics might give?! In Christ, Andrew

[@wendyfaustin8269]

No real particular reason, other than to say I wanted to lend support from someone who is representative of another body within the Christian world. I have a ton of respect for Dennis Prager but I think Matt was rightly pointing out that Jesus was always seeking to point out that sinful actions always originate in the heart so he went deeper than just trying to modify sinful actions. But certainly I didn’t mention that I’m an Evangelical as a means of any opposition to Matt as a Catholic.

[@valkyrieloki1991]

@@DFMoray Maybe to show people from different backgrounds can agree on things without subscribing to one particular denomination or worldview.

[@omarharo3132]

Prayers

[@Neb-ie5mj]

Keep the discussion going, porn destroyed my life, please everyone, never tire of pushing back against porn. It's evil, pure and simple, full stop.

[@canibezeroun1988]

It hasn't been destroyed yet. You're still with us. Just wanting you to keep looking forward. Confession is invaluable.

[@Neb-ie5mj]

@@canibezeroun1988 Thanks! Confession has been the game changer for me, I still live with tremendous guilt, but through friendship and a 12 step program, I'm working my way back towards the light. I appreciate your kind words, never stop being a positive light in the world.

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

@@Neb-ie5mj Totally understand about the tremendous guilt. Keep going!

[@markthompson1796]

In what ways did it destroy your life?

[@Neb-ie5mj]

@@markthompson1796 Just images in my head quite a bit, 3 years without looking at it, and a lot of images are still seared into my brain :(.

[@coffeesnob4658]

Let’s go Matt! Way to go on being patient and saying what you mean! Love your stuff man!

[@graysonmichael9696]

I'm a fairly new subscriber to Pints With Aquinas, and I must admit, this conversation has shown me just how sharp Matt is intellectually. Also, it's refreshing to see this kind of content among the many "progressive" Catholic channels on KZbin, which frankly drove me away from KZbin for several years. You have given me a reason to come back.

[@joshuasy10]

How is Pints progressive?

[@graysonmichael9696]

@@joshuasy10 sorry, I wrote the comment very quickly on a phone so it’s a little unclear, what I meant was - *with so many “progressive” Catholic channels on KZbin, PWA’s content is so refreshing to watch*

[@jordansehn]

Yes Matt is awesome!

[@janedoe3648]

Matt Walsh and Michael Knowles, check em out😊

[@joshuasy10]

@@graysonmichael9696 thanks for clarifying

[@stoiclogos7284]

When you mentioned the difference between sexual desire and lust, my mind exploded. So simple, yet so true. I hadn't put that together before, at least consciously. As a young man in his twenties, I struggle with lust minute to minute. It sounds ridiculous but when things are clearly defined, the stark difference between lusting after someone and desiring to be with them is so different and mentally I'm aware of that now. You absolutely have reduced the individual to an object for your pleasure. I was aware of that behavior, obviously, but didn't set it apart from sexual desire as lust. Damn, I appreciate that little distinction.

[@AthanaSus]

Same. This was such a fruitful discussion

[@zapazap]

One can distinguishing treating a person as a means (as opposed to an end) and treating a person as a MERE means (as opposed to an end).

[@Thagomizer]

@@zapazap ^ This is why slavery and sexual abuse are wrong, but it doesn't make a case for why pornography is wrong. If you're watching porn, you're watching a staged performance between two professionals, just as you would at a sports event or movie theater. Are you reducing actors and athletes to mere objects for your entertainment by watching their work?

[@blumusik9572]

@@Thagomizer Good point. I get that sense when I see stadium sports. Everybody cheers when there s a heroic play or 2 hockey players go at it. Yes there is an objectification and a potential of dehumanizing the players as if they are pawns used for our entertainment. A mini display of what Romans did in the colisseum. On the other hand watching well skilled players can be inspiring and uplifting just as watching a ballet or a good drama. But I think watching porn, violence and debauchery is disordered and can never ennoble the soul. I think that was what Matt was trying to underscore in the discussion.

[@vanmoody]

When you are a young man you can get excited when the wind blows up your shorts. For us guys it is more physical. Our bodies create semen and we have a desire to release it. It is why when we are young we find we have a morning erection. With all this said Satan wants to take all that and ruin our lives with it if we go outside of God's boundaries.

[@kmtm93]

Thank you for speaking up for the truth, Matt. Porn is evil.

[@viodsa]

If porn is evil then what is fornication / adultery. What is more evil watching a crime movie or committing a crime.

[@bizzaro1988]

​@@viodsa also evil

[@Thagomizer]

Censorship is worse.

[@comicsans1689]

@@viodsa Both are equally evil in the eyes of God. Enough with whataboutism.

[@marshallmussarela943]

​@@Thagomizer So the laws punishing you if you murder or robber someone is censorship now. Banning Porn would not be censorship, it would be the most sane and correct act.

[@gene2049]

Love to hear the truth of our Catholic faith. You did well. Love this channel and it’s helping me. God bless ❤

[@bluesdealer]

Y’all have a huge blind spot when it comes to sex within marriage, though. To call even the use of contraception somehow “objectification” does not logically follow whatsoever. It’s a huge equivocation and Matt just glosses over it without acknowledging the flaw in reasoning

[@TheMacDonald22]

​@@bluesdealer You're purposefully and actively going against God's will. If you block the process of creation, you are always rejecting the will of God in the sexual act. If you use contraception you turn sex into only an act of pleasure/bond and you get rid of God's ability to create and give life. It would be like giving a potter clay but taking his water so he can't use the clay to make a vase, you're purposefully trying to counteract God's will of creating. Also every Protestant church always believed contraception was a sin until about the 1930s and the sexual revolution. Now almost no Protestants believe contraception is a sin.

[@crusaderACR]

​@@bluesdealerread _humanae vitae_ and take a look at theology of the body We're awfully consistent. Obsessively studious to make this so.

[@rwilliams638]

Well done Matt!!! Porn/sex addiction has destroyed my family. It is not something that can happen only privately and not affect others. It is a drug that changes the mind. It is almost always associated with a secretive life that involves lies, deception, deflection, and gaslighting. Ramifications not only affected me but my children also. Life changing and heartbreaking.

[@danielcartwright8868]

What Dennis seems to be ignoring is that behaviors come from thoughts. People don't act out of nowhere. Good job Matt.

[@BlGGESTBROTHER]

Sorry, but that just simply isn't true. Thoughts are not the equivalent to actions. We all have thoughts about doing bad things sometimes but we use our moral agency and reasoning to stop ourselves from doing them. Obviously there is a difference between the man who thinks about murdering someone and the man who actually murders someone. This is why we don't have thought crime legislation; because we recognize that those two things are not equivalent.

[@kg9409]

@@BlGGESTBROTHER : 1. The person who never thinks about murdering is VERY UNLIKELY to murder. 2. The person who has an intrusive thought about it once in a while is SOMEWHAT UNLIKELY to murder. 3. The person who HABITUALLY FANTASIZES about murder is VERY LIKELY to murder!!!! @danielcartwright8868 you’re right, I was thinking that when Dennis was talking about how he doesn’t care if people dislike Jews (or other group) only how they treat them- as if fostering those thoughts/views isn’t eventually going to lead to their logical conclusion 🤯

[@Cmrb48az]

​@@BlGGESTBROTHERPlease take time to watch police interrogations of murderers, pedophiles and violent criminals. You will hear the majority of them convey these acts began as simple thoughts, then obsessive thoughts and fantasy, then for some research, then for some planning and finally acting out. It always begins with a thought.

[@dogsandyoga1743]

​@@kg9409 I went for years fantasizing about murdering an individual, even planning it out in my head. Needless to say, it never went beyond the realm of my mind...

[@Thagomizer]

@@kg9409 If that were true, then video games should have created the biggest epidemic of mass murderers in world history.

[@nickgabel1144]

The amount of respect I’ve gained for Matt after watching this debate is unquantifiable

[@boogerstastesalty]

And the amount if respect I've lost for Prager is unquantifiable. I guess this is what it looks like when you approach right and wrong purely on the physical nature of "the Law" as opposed to having the Holy Spirit inside you.

[@alaalfa8839]

The experts of other channels say that after scanning the brain, they found out the more men watch porn the less pleasure they feel from watching it. because the receptors of the brain can not handle so much dopamine, so the pleasure receptors shut down. It's similar to gambling or using cell phones. The more you use it the less pleasure you feel from using it. Therefore kids shouldn't play video games too often because if the receptors of the brain shut down the kid feels great boredom. so the kid feels no pleasure from other activities such as walking a dog or reading a book. the pleasure shrinks to a maximal minimum. They feel pleasure only at the beginning. So no wonder that even their wife is not attractive to them because the pleasure centers and receptors of the brain are desensitized, so they feel more bored after watching it. so a bored and demotivated person can not give so much care to his wife. But as Cal Newport says the right type of boredom leads to productivity. because of too much dopamine. Or women probably also feel less attraction to men, because of it as well. because their brain is craving other hormones like oxytocin the hormone of love, serotonin, melatonin, etc. or serotonin also increases from doing sports etc. Or when two lovers are walking hand in hand in nature they probably get the pleasure chemicals such as oxytocin, serotonin etc.

[@jessicagarrett8053]

​@asparapee4213 i wouldn't say I've lost respect for P.... he was very respectful in this conversation. And it's a necessary conversation. But yes, on your Holy Spirit comment. Pray for these men.

[@SpreadLightandLove]

Same 🙌🏽 I’ve never heard of either of these men prior to this video link someone shared & I would go to matt for advice on anything & Dennis I wouldn’t trust even the slightest suggestion like a good song or movie. 🤮 Dennis makes my skin crawl.

[@stillworkingonthat]

Matt handled himself like a pro - and far outclassed Dennis in terms of precision, logic and morality.

[@sammodread7188]

"you wont find a tag in the morgue that says Virgin" 😂

[@nedosullivan5557]

Thank God for the truth and clarity of the Catholic Church. Well done, Matt.

[@GiorgiNemsitsveridze]

As Orthodox Christian I might be biased in favor of Christian views but I know a difference between lust and attraction - I'm highly attracted to every beautiful woman but I feel more lustful toward provocative women. Now if the perfect looking women act provocatively I'd be more attracted sexually and that's how provocative behavior and lust are both sinful because like Dennis said, which undermined his argument, it'll drive you crazy to sit in a restaurant and not think about food.

[@hannahdavia8791]

Before converting I used to listen to Denis Prager and Alison Armstrong answer these questions ( and I consumed all Alison's Understanding Men products). I cannot tell you what untold damage their advice did to my new marriage. We are still suffering from the trauma of it. Thanks be to God for the teachings of the Catholic Church. Let us pray for their conversions so that they stop wounding women and men and destroying marriages with their dangerous advice.

[@CanisDei]

❤️🔸🔸🔸✝️🔸🔸🔸❤️

[@kaiserdamasus1978]

100% glad you found the Church and got out of that.

[@kiana653]

God bless you.

[@carissa4081]

This was such an interesting debate to watch. As an adolescent, my first inclination with regards to p*rn was that there was something wrong with it. Our culture slowly changed my mind though to the point where I defended it to friends who thought it was wrong! That also led to thinking hook-up culture was acceptable, marriage was bondage and a whole other host of wrong-headed beliefs. That was very much intertwined with my left-leaning political beliefs. I only questioned all of this recently. It seems to be the Catholic views on the above are correct. My natural inclination was correct and hearing this debate has further solidified this for me. Our society has cheapened the most precious gifts we can have as humans. Thanks for the debate. These discussions are so important.

[@pintswithaquinas]

Carissa, so lovely to see you here in the comment section. Know that I'm praying for you on your journey no matter where it takes you.

[@carissa4081]

@@pintswithaquinas Thank you, that’s so kind. Your viewers have been so supportive too and I am enjoying the journey.

[@christywells2707]

It wasn't ok with his mother. She felt forced to accept it

[@kathyhansen2820]

Or she didn't give much of a hoot about her husband and so didn't care what he did. Just because a marriage lasts for decades, it doesn't mean it was all that good.

[@clareritzenthaler1033]

One of the most frustrating parts of this debate for me was listening to Dennis give an emotional argument of why porn should be allowed in marriage (the old couple where the wife could no longer have marital relations with her husband). Only to then pounce on Matt for giving an "emotional" argument against porn (asking the legitimate question of whether you would want your wife/sister/daughter/mother to be the women in the porn)!

[@traditionalsoldier3639]

Because he probably justifying his own behavior.

[@jerusalem4492]

He is justifying his parents behavior. It’s easy to defend ones you love.

[@FaithandSunshine]

Yes exactly. I wanted to interject into this entire debate. Who is "softporn" old playboy magazines hurting? How about the women in the pictures?!! This more than anything is the reason it's a sin. Because the women in the magazines and videos are exploiting themselves in sin whether it's their choice or not. So the people who view and participate in it are actively participating in the perpetuation of the harm that the porn industry causes to women. It does not need to be violent for it to be sinful.

[@andrewselbyphotography]

@@FaithandSunshine I agree with you that it does harm the model, but how would you respond if someone gave the objection of Cartoon or AI pornography use?

[@drago2593]

Most frustrating part for me was watching them smoke that disgusting cigars

[@bigga5406]

The emotional side of spouses using porn is simple to me (as a man). I ask myself, would I appreciate my wife pleasuring herself to a jacked dude behind my back? The answer is no, it at all. That would hurt me pretty deeply. Maybe it would motivate me to be more fit but maybe it would depress me. Pornography has literally destroyed even the most honest men, myself included, and I’m in the process of sensitizing myself to this smut, and re-programming all over again because I grew up like it was literally not a big deal AT ALL.

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

Exactly. Turn it around, and the vast majority of men would be hurt and angry if their wife was seeking sexual stimulation from other men. And so many people have been desensitised to the evil of pornography, so you are hardly alone there. Our culture has been poisoned by liars who claimed that releasing porn was necessary for dealing with sexual repression. The consequences are horrifying to watch.

[@loganjackson675]

This comment makes me wonder if the same negative psychological and physiological effects of modern porn exist in viewers of the “old school” porn that Prager is talking about. I’d be willing to bet that it has a significantly different effect. Most men have felt the desensitization first hand, but I haven’t encountered people saying anything similar about older/simpler types of porn imagery. Also I definitely think that the first statement you made could actually be a decent argument in favor of Prager’s point, because I’d be willing to bet that it would be contextual for you as well. From a practical perspective, given that your wife will likely fantasize about other men at times in your marriage, would you prefer she masturbate to some jacked dude who is a designated sexual object and she will never meet, or to the idea/image of some jacked dude at the gym? Obviously most guys would prefer the porn, because it’s drawn as distinct from real life in a way that other fantasies aren’t. There is no threat of some porn star stealing your wife, but presumably the jacked guy at the gym could pose a threat. Does this make porn good or acceptable? No, but maybe it’s practical for some people to accept as an isolated sexual outlet that keeps the fantasies away from their real life relationships and lives. I’m not convinced by that but it is an interesting position

[@bongwaterbojack]

What about guys who are not bothered by it?

[@jr9779]

Prayers+ for you!

[@nightmareTomek]

@@Musicienne-DAB1995 Women don't watch porn behind a mans back, but do you know what they do instead? They often drop a healthy relationship to date a guy with high market value, with the delusion they're gonna form a relationship. Then the high market value guy sleeps with the girl and drops her, too, and often she returns to the previous guy, crying. You think, this isn't even more hurtful? Even has a name, it's called monkey-branching. I'd prefer my girl to watch some porn and be honest about it, that'd be sexy, but sadly it's far less common than monkey-branching.

[@sunshinegirl4660]

To Matt’s wife - you are beyond blessed to have such an upstanding guy who truly gets it. I pray his words reach every man on the planet! May God continue to bless and protect your beautiful marriage! 🙏🏻❤️

[@ShalomDove]

Amen 💜💜💜

[@christinajones4233]

Each person has their own challenges. I'm sure many husbands have a way that captivates others, however, I understand your point and I also appreciate Matt. Also, being fortunate to have a remarkable partner probably goes both ways! :)

[@azariahshepard]

"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Thought/heart based

[@Nighthawkinlight]

The Christian ethic recognizes that fantasizing internally (lusting or hating or coveting) reveals that your moral character is such that you are mentally willing to commit the external fulfillment of those fantasies if allowed to do so without fear of consequences, whether social or emotional. The lack of bad behavior in that case is not representative of an innate goodness coming from within the person, but just the restraint of circumstance. Their behavior would vary wildly if born in a different time or place. True righteousness that is not dependant or fickle must be from the inside out. Dennis also does not make a distinction between a physical reflex and an intentional fantasy. You might feel a reflex of fear when someone cuts you off in traffic. It's a different matter when you go on to let that turn to vengeful anger and imagine them crashing and burning in the median. That is a choice to revel in a desire for another person's harm. The initial reflex and the following meditation are two separate mental events. There is a similar distinction between attraction and lust.

[@IG88AAA]

That is a great point. That the internal ideation of a sin is evidence that one would do it if there were no negative consequences. I could imagine someone saying that “we are all sinful” to rebut this, but this ignores that there is a standard and we are to aspire to it.

[@H4ymaker]

I need to print your first paragraph and place it in my Holy Bible.

[@joegame4576]

@@IG88AAA i'm a bit confused. "we are all sinful' is not a rebuttal but an agreement to OP's claim that we would do evil things if there are no consequences. also, how does that ignore that there is a standard (being god or god's laws)?

[@CyrusStratton]

@@joegame4576 I think he just meant some would try to justify their sinful heart by saying “we’re all sinful”.

[@CyrusStratton]

Really great articulation of one of Christ’s biggest revelations! Good job, OP!

[@deirdrefinnegan5436]

No, Dennis, women are heartbroken about porn for so many reasons. He is so far off. Thanks, Matt.

[@rosehannah4845]

100%

[@marcoz5857]

can you give an example that was not addressed in his speach?

[@deirdrefinnegan5436]

@@marcoz5857 - the degradation and humiliation of porn, the abuse that is inherent in the industry, the objectification of women as toys to use, the immaturity of men who think porn is harmless, the fact that is just another addiction, I could go on for pages. Prager makes it seem like women are just worried that their husbands likes the porn star better. His views on how men and women view sexuality are also very limited.

[@marcoz5857]

@@deirdrefinnegan5436 yea, i think the discussion was a little more sophisticated than how you are presenting it in your comment.

[@deirdrefinnegan5436]

@@marcoz5857 - Well, good for you! We disagree.

[@marybethshah8803]

Matt absolutely came ready for this. Loved the thorough and empathetic and diligent responses. I don’t think Ive heard it better defended and explained. “If adultery is a bullet to the head, then porn is the slow poison to the body”

[@patrickcramer4245]

His body, his choice.

[@megauser8512]

@@patrickcramer4245 For porn? Yes. But for adultery? No.

[@alaalfa8839]

Science is showing a lot of common sense. Human has a brain (some don´t :D) The brain has pleasure centers and receptors. these brain receptors are handling a healthy amount of dopamine studying a book creates a healthy amount of dopamine, which is very rewarding for the human brain by itself gambling, watching movies, and porn create so much dopamine in the brain that the brain receptors can not handle, because the dopamine pleasure is set to high and the body starts to crave it on a regular basis the person feels bored, and feels no pleasure from other healthy activities such as reading a book or doing sports or visiting a grandmother etc then he/she tries other chemicals to get the same level of dopamine for example marihuana

[@crusaderACR]

​@@patrickcramer4245 A husband doesn't have any right over his own body, it's his wife's alone.

[@nigiel23]

First time watching you debate very impressed. You just made a fan!

[@wrenchguy2937]

This conversation made me so proud to be catholic. and let me tell you..I was struggling with my faith. Needed this!

[@kingsdie2123]

Please look into trent horn, that man is a robot sent from the future to save catholics from sinning his debates are great!

[@JustActNormal]

People who still actually call themselves Catholics are disgusting way to be a part of the boy sex club

[@jimdee9801]

Catholic... the church of covering up paedo priests? Proud? No wonder the Irish have turned against it after decades if not centuries of child abuse and infanticide of babies born to sexuslly nuns and priests getting their rocks off

[@jenniferwalsh1731]

Be a Jesus lover! That’s all that matters 🙃

[@ulfingvar1]

You mean you have been strengthened in your sexual neurosis?

[@alissamcdermott9636]

I'm so thankful to be Catholic and the high standards the church sets for our sexuality. Thank you God for inspiring JP2 to write the Theology of the Body. It is the key to understanding God's plan for our sexuality especially in this time of so much sexual sin.

[@jessicabarker9497]

My husband of 19 years passed away suddenly at the age of 48 three months ago. While in the hospital as I was with his body, reeling from the news of his death, I gripped his thighs and said, "He had such nice thighs. I've always loved his thighs." The idea that women don't like certain body parts on men is ridiculous. It's hard for me to take Prager's viewpoints seriously when he has this idea that women don't even find men's bodies physically attractive or have favorite parts of their husband's body. I also am disgusted by men excusing their own behavior because "that's how we're programmed." We should be striving towards holiness, not excusing natural inclinations that lead to sin and hurting other people.

[@mariahconklin4150]

Or we could stop believing in a God that clearly doesn't exist.

[@MemeGoblin]

​@@mariahconklin4150 Nice bait, I think only a fool finds that perspective "obvious".

[@Ianassa91]

Sorry for you loss

[@bmbutler2]

So very sorry for your loss.

[@jtperez657]

@mariahconklin4150 "They are ill discoverers that think there is no land when they can see nothing but sea." -Francis Bacon

[@susanthompson2988]

Well done Sir!! Your wife is a very blessed woman to have you as her husband!! We need more men like you with a strong and fierce Christian faith! 🙏🏻🕊️

[@kristenbrotemarkle7562]

Amen! Agreed. This really increased my respect in Matt and his ability to have a heated, respectful discussion while maintaining his convictions for moral truth.

[@oliverclark5604]

to Susan Thompson, not "Christian faith" alone but, in uncertainty, belief as the keeping of the inseparability and qualitative equality of thinking and having faith. Do not be tempted by the Protestant "sola scriptura" as only faith or until Pope Francis the roman catholic "higher vocation" of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God (Pope St John Paul 2's Council for the Family "Guidelines", TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 35; St Paul's "opinion" at 1Cor7:25-34). In uncertainty of belief as belief is always in some degree of uncertainty otherwise it is “knowing good and evil” (not recommended at Genesis 3:5), I believe you that his wife is "blessed" (cf. Luke 1:45). Chasity when it’s inseparability and qualitative equality with obedience and poverty is kept in uncertainty of belief is possible in consecrated marriage or otherwise by associating together with a consecrated marriage as did Bishop Robert Barron on 20 December 2023 in his role as the USCCB Chairman of the Committee for Family, Life and Youth in his accepting Pope Francis’ approval of Fiducia Supplicans, DDF, 18 December 2023. "higher vocation" of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God in groomed by diseased identities of 'familyist' family members' error was purported presumed by Pope St John Paul 2 at n.35 of his Council for the Family Guidelines, TTMHS, 1995 and by St Paul at 1Cor7:25-34. It draws through porn's "utilitarianism in practice and in ethics" (TTMHS, 24) into tax-exemption embezzlements and lower insurance cost by fraud as occult and incest connected causing extreme tensions withstood by the consecrated celibate marriage of Pope Francis on 17 June 2021 by it insuring and insuring simultaneously in uncertainty of his belief. This withstanding was on the reference point of the consent of Mary in uncertainty of her belief to be joined in her two consecrated marriages, celibate at RSV Lk 1:29-45: "let it be to me", and male female at RSV Mt 1:24: "Joseph ... took his wife". This insuring by PF was of his need of union of his identity in his consecrated celibate marriage at unacceptable risk of fraud by the Italian Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill withstood by his authorising a protest note against this bill to the Italian government on 17 June 2021 followed by defeat of this bill on 27 October 2021. This simultaneous ensuring by PF was by his authorising criminal indictments on 17 June 2021 of ten of his Vatican state citizens/employees, including Cardinal Angelo Becciu, for embezzlements of his procreation role gift charity donations on which convicted on 18 December 2023 in his Vatican state court. "Follow the money". Sex and other attempted ensuring thinking separated from insuring faith will lead you to the money. From Oliver Clark in my exercising an absolute power of authorisations of my consecrated male female marriage from 25/2/91, then consecrated celibate marriage on the death of my wife on 1/11/17, on the reference point of the keeping in uncertainty of belief of the inseparability and qualitative equality of these two marriages of Mary, on direction of the letter addressing me from the Vice President of Pope St John Paul 2’s Pontifical Council for the Laity, Bishop Paul Cordes, though the Brisbane archdiocese, Australia roman catholic parish I served as a catechist, dated 29 September 1994.

[@chellecat247]

That's right Dennis, "God doesnt care what's on our thoughts and hearts, as long as we look Godly and appear righteous, he gives us a free pass".... said everyone in hell.

[@Lilacs4]

Hahaha oh man excellent punch line

[@rms-vp6hf]

Sounds like he is quoting the Pharisees and Saducees 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@CallMePreet]

Said all religions pretty much.

[@doreenb.8928]

I love a good sarcastic, on-the-money point! God most definitely cares what we think about and what’s in our hearts.

[@Armuandist]

*That's why Jesus rejected the way how the pharisees lived in hypocrisy. They are clean outside but rotten inside. Clean in the eyes of men but in the eyes of God their heart are very lustful. PORNOGRAPHY AND MASTURBATION is a sin. SEX is a gift and need to be celebrated within the MARRIAGE of MAN and WOMAN.*

[@doctorpepsi8486]

I think Dennis’ line straddling approach to pornography is the type of lukewarm approach that got us into the mess we’re in today.

[@rosehannah4845]

Yes it's very much, "boys will be boys" excusing bad behaviors of men which are unacceptable.

[@sethgyan]

@@rosehannah4845 Example of "boys will be boys" behaviors?

[@rosehannah4845]

@@sethgyan Prager: Men need variety, This is simply not true. My husband is perfectly happy having one wife and very happy with our sex life. Men don't "need variety" he is a lustful man who is making excuses for himself.

[@CanisDei]

​@@rosehannah4845 💯✨

[@TickleMeElmo55]

I agreed. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

[@dagnew06]

Gentlemen, this is exactly how a true discussion should occur. The respect that you have for each other comes through very strongly. Thank you for both being an excellent example for us in a world bereft and terrified of a differing opinion.

[@SourBuddha]

This discourse is an embodiment of the absolute fact that the term "judeo-christian ethics" is a figment of the mind.

[@Bznpb1487]

Por supuesto la ética judía no tiene nada que ver con los cristianos

[@ReverbCanvas]

💯

[@liamcomam2787]

Jewish vs Christian

[@samuelbarham8483]

I don't know. I'm just not sure that Dennis has a standard view of Jewish ethics. I'm not Jewish, but a simple Google search reveals that the Talmud is rife with passages enjoining purity of thought, insisting that sinful thoughts are in fact *more serious* than sinful acts (Yoma 29a reads, "Thoughts of transgression are worse than transgression itself"), and recommending shmirat ha-einayim (guarding of the eyes).

[@liamcomam2787]

@@samuelbarham8483 no think about what the Pharisees got wrong. What did Jesus seek to reprimand. They didn’t carry the spirit of the law. They were shocked when Jesus preached to look at a woman lustfully is adultery

[@rossshields1619]

I was challenged by pornography for 29 years I made a conscious decision to do away with it. It started with wanting to know what people were hiding. It is a growth of sin that festers when not exposed to the light. Pornography will desensitize your relationship and destroy your confidence.

[@patrickcramer4245]

Then you’re doing it wrong.

[@christinajones4233]

@@patrickcramer4245 What do you mean?

[@patrickcramer4245]

@@christinajones4233 Everything healthy, is done in moderation. A man's sexuality is deeply visual. God made man that way. At the end of the day, what an adult does in his/her bedroom is no one's business. So long as there is consent, and no harm is done. Not a big fan of feeling guilt for how God made me.

[@patrickcramer4245]

@@christinajones4233 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mafZf5RqiZ6sack

[@christinajones4233]

@@patrickcramer4245 "The battle is not between flesh and blood" can serve as a reminder that the fight against addiction involves multiple layers and goes beyond the surface level of physical desires. Also, "everything in moderation" doesn't apply to sin. Listening to your conscience, which God has given, is also how God made you. Proverbs 14:16 suggests that fools act on their indulgences without feeling guilty, while the wise exercise restraint and fear the Lord. 1 Corinthians 6:18: "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." Galatians 5:19: "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality..." Colossians 3:5: "Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." Hebrews 13:4: "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."

[@stefanoterrana8056]

The more this interview went on the more I had a knot in my stomach the more Denis Prager spoke. Thank you Matt for defending the truth with out compromise and with eloquence.

[@cgggg5988]

Dennis fighting hard to justify lusting after women other than his wife. His poor wife

[@r.m5883]

Basically because his daddy did it.. so it’s justified

[@TickleMeElmo55]

@@cgggg5988 Well, the guy has been married three times. Is it three? Multiple times. But to be fair, he has verbally said he was shameful of his past divorces. As flawed as his thinking is, it is better to have Dennis Prager on "our" side than someone who shrugs their shoulders and either advocates for modern sex and sexuality, or gently supports it because "whatever you ain't hurting anyone."

[@thomasthellamas9886]

@@TickleMeElmo55 I don’t consider Dennis on my side after this debate. He was already on the edge following Judaism.

[@ImTiredOfThisChurch]

@@thomasthellamas9886 and so? Are you crazy?

[@andsomewafflefries]

No one puts Prager in a corner.. except Matt Fradd when it comes to pornography. Good on you Matt - speaking truth and pushing back! It seems you may have given him a lot to think about.

[@Beatitudes8]

Amen!

[@greyforge27]

What I got out of this is that Catholicism is essentially a call to an ideal, which for me is what makes it so powerfully attractive. At the same time I appreciate Prager's concern with realism - i.e. real sex involves some amounts of objectification and lust and these don't make it absolutely fallen and evil.

[@msd5808]

Pornography has ruined men and women. It's ruined society.

[@Jennifer-gr7hn]

110% and I've been saying this after seeing this for DECADES and I was told I was "too strict" with dating, then I said "it's gonna get REALLY BAD NOW":...when the "smart" phones came out. What can go wrong with hand held access to porn with out the shame or embarrassment to the point that the soul and heart are ...dead. DEAD. Love aways, chaste Catholic single woman who is FED...UP.

[@pera.j.andersson]

It has? How come? How about statistics on violence and abuse since the advent of the Internet?

[@readerzozo410]

@@pera.j.andersson these all along pornography are sins and ruined the society.

[@kenmcbride6515]

You used to be the Moon and Sun and now you're just a loaded gun

[@laurarhodesandrewscatholic7208]

This is my first time commenting on a video on KZbin ever and I just wanted to say this was one of the best interviews I’ve ever seen. Thank you for upholding the dignity of women, and I hope this video goes viral! ☺️

[@acefighter682]

“Would you like your daughter looked at like that?” That was it, enough said. You only don’t care unless it’s your head on the line

[@Ana_Cecilia615]

That was exactly why his moral objectives to porn were superior to Dennis. You could tell Dennis was struggling with it because it's just not right.

[@koreywilkinson2860]

That was a great question to ask. Bc at that moment you saw that it wasn’t just a picture on a page but it was wrong and lustful

[@nightmareTomek]

@@Ana_Cecilia615 It's quite right, you women just don't like it. You use the same devaluing principle on it that causes men in every film, show and sitcom to be idiots compared to women.

[@Ana_Cecilia615]

@@nightmareTomek I don't even understand what you're talking about or how that relates to religious men accountable to God who protect and defend their wives and daughters.

[@nightmareTomek]

@@Ana_Cecilia615 You don't like him watching porn, so you gonna attack it emotionally, for example by shaming it or the people who do the action you dislike. The same strategy is used when men are shown on TV to be dumbasses, to invaluate their input and decisions. And give more power to women. Don't worry, women usually don't understand that, or what they're actually doing. But men do.

[@kambasworld1]

This was a very good conversation. Very intelligent way to discourse and disagree

[@garetstrouse3370]

Matt you did an amazing job. Thank you for standing up for the truth. Praying for Dennis.

[@jericaraniego]

This conversation made me realize that Christianity really is the most morally superior religion.

[@bendover9620]

Well I mean, what other religion got a torture device as a religious symbol or a deity coming down from heaven to become a human being so said deity could die on aforementioned torture device because He loves His creation?

[@matheusfay6082]

@@bendover9620 what a weird comment… if you’re mocking it, stop it. If you’re not, it sounded as if you were.

[@ZiplineShazam]

This conversation made me realize that the god of the bible must want everyone to arrogantly suck on big. . .brown. . .cigars.

[@mikeyerian2562]

@@bendover9620 Actually, the crucifix is the religious symbol and it's meaning is to show us how Jesus died for our sins. Yours, too. And of course God didn't die on the cross. Jesus did. Jesus was fully man and fully God. They killed the body. The spirit will never be killed.

[@bendover9620]

@@mikeyerian2562 Dude, if God did not die on the cross, then what's the point of His death? I don't know what sect you are within Christianity, but Christ died on that cross, went to hell (well at least not Gehenna) to save those in Abraham's bosom, for the wages of sin is death, and now everyone has a chance to enter the kingdom. For God to be punished with death; a punishment only given to sinners and the defiled, out of love for His creation is the cornerstone of Christianity. Now, of course God's spirit did not die on the cross since the Holy Spirit is another form of the Trinity, however, for you to say that God did not die on the cross is theologically incorrect since as you have said, He is fully man AND fully God. Christ is God, he died on the cross, now therefore, God, in the form of Christ who is both God and Man, died on the cross. You trying to degrade Christ to merely just His corporeal body, different from his spirit which is God sounds so heretical I'd slap you irl. It's even ironic that you say that He's 100% God and Man afterwards.

[@dnjelly1063]

Matt you crushed it. Prager is compromising, and your principled stand shines through.

[@FoodFreedomUSA]

Playboy was the gateway to the porn bell we are living in today. It wasn’t good then and it’s not good now.