HOW GOOD ARE BOUNCE SPELLS IN cEDH - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

[@ghost64626]

I'd give this podcast four stop signs out of traffic circles

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Sounds like a nice and safe intersection, fantastic

[@Rasbougri]

Three thucks out of four bounces

[@asn101]

Yeah…those circles are in New Jersey…

[@princesstheadorablecat]

​@@asn101the intersection is in California. Good luck 😂

[@TheMindSculptors]

I CACKLED during this episode so many times 😂😂😂 I love you folks ❤️

[@terryem05]

"Cat out of yellow" made me spit out my coffee it was so good. Absolutely loved the strange rating since we could still tell how you felt about the cards through the conversation.

[@salchi-papa]

I think that Soul Partition should be considered higher for the following: You can protect your own wincons to be able to cast them later. Being able to protect your breach and recasting it, utilizing it to ramp more dockside triggers or remove problematic pieces. That being stated, this podcast slaps.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Yes, that is a great point. Thank you!!!

[@jmarksthespot]

My brother in christ, you just described a bounce spell. This is just that but it makes your spell cost more, so it’s just a lower bounce spell

[@3N3MYKN1GHT]

My playgroup knows me for a play of resetting my remora on 3 or 4 to a remora on 0 with a soul partition.

[@3N3MYKN1GHT]

​@@jmarksthespot makes your spell cost the same, your opponents cost more

[@salchi-papa]

@@jmarksthespot I’m well aware I did, I was helping explain why it should be considered higher up on their ranking…

[@Bafflementation]

I'd say Moonsnare Prototype is worth a mention. It's the other channel bounce effect that's also sort of a springleaf drum.

[@mightyone3737]

Yeah, I was expecting to see this mentioned.

[@robbiehardy3228]

"That's what's happening: they're bad on purpose." Genius! You guys are literally the best!

[@robbiehardy3228]

"I'm prepared to give March a 3.5 out of 5" like you guys are negotiating a trade deal! Lol

[@scudigaming1755]

Technically the 4.5 outta 5 is higher. Translated to % 4.5 is 90% vs 7/8 is put to 87.5%

[@gypsieking3280]

That is because Tyler mismultiplied 4.5 times 8. He came to 34 but it is 36.

[@Olivia-ev9hk]

Yea Tyler,who is otherwise unimpeachable, biffed the calculation here. However, in his defense, math is for blockers and her wad clearly the aggro in that exchange.

[@jarrodwhitaker5365]

I'm sorry, but 69/420 might be funniest comment yet on this channel....Well played, Tyler, well played.

[@bamby3144]

Yalls teasing with the shorts is WORKING

[@xyllos]

Having Tyler here made this video 10.1 out of 10

[@autopsipath]

You come to a river has been so good to me in pioneer, its not a bad rate for a bounce spell there and being able to push that combat damage through really helps to finish games.

[@entertainmentinc9735]

Liked the video, but I was hoping it was a discussion about if bounce spells should be played over removal like rapid hybridization, sword to plowshares etc

[@kenlikescarbs]

Love me some Void Snare, as well. Sorcery is cursed, but it's solid for a storm deck that just needs to get rid of a stax piece before trying a win.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Good Snare! another good one!

[@devan9197]

I WAS ALSO THINKING OF MUSIC THEORY WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT RULES AND BREAKING THEM!

[@dimitriosdoulgeris4659]

My 10 weeks old daughter is already able to raise about 6 of 10 fingers, so I guess that's her rating for your podcast. Gentle reminder, I actively raised the other 4 fingers as well because you guys are your own classification of high-quality mtg content and stand-up. Thank you very much.

[@bensteinhauser784]

Amazing podcast though I'm sad we didn't see Rushing River. It's rather niche but being able to take 2 stax permanents off the table with one spell is incredibly powerful. Also, I think the power of Soul Partition was vastly understated. The synergy with Drannith is nice but increasing the cost to recast by two is potentially backbreaking. Breach for 4, Seedborn for 7, Winota for 6, etc. Lastly, how often do you actually use the mana refund from Snap? I started cutting it since usually I'd use it EOT and do nothing with the mana I get back.

[@JacobBos1988]

I too want to mention Rushing River. Taking two staxx pieces with one card is very strong. Also, saccing a land can be an upside when you're trying to reach Threshold.

[@gypsieking3280]

Poor Tyler. I feel you on this.

[@elahem6940]

That intro went harder than it needed to

[@thekilla1234]

24:27 The MTG wiki says that definition 3 of "Topdeck" is "To put a card on top of your library from somewhere else, usually your graveyard or elsewhere in your library.", but I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "topdeck" in any situation other than drawing an out.

[@BM-qi1ss]

I love y’all sm🙏 Always bring a smile to my face with the vibes

[@stonesthrow9753]

I love this channel. Found guys a few weeks ago. Thanks for the content

[@ulyssessanchez2328]

"Why are you guys like this, Do you Have too" Man i just love you guys 🤣🤣

[@jaydonthewarrior636]

Moon Snare Prototype. Tyler, you run 5 bounce spells.

[@Deta1lafo]

Thank you for your content, love it.

[@joedunkelberg5054]

I think for the next podcast you should rate things by how much you cackle evilly on the inside (or outside) when you cast the spell.

[@rentabuddha]

You guys rock - thank you for the dedicated content!

[@potatogrease2420]

“it’s okay. people know” 36:56 me, actively reading what sidisi’s faithful does because i, in fact, do not know

[@Pechko]

*New sentence unlocked*: "A bed is a four card deck,.. great..." Lmfao!

[@BVBridesifyer]

“How would you rate this rating system?” Absolutely sent me Please do a podcast rating all of your previous rating methods

[@TheGrifcannon22]

I think you all were spot on with all your ratings for all the cards. I give this episode Simian Spirit Guide out of red

[@austindutton2998]

I’m surprised you guys or the comments haven’t said Subtlety?? Though it’s more niche because of targets, it feels like it should considered because of it’s free mode and being a creature, which has only grown more relevant (kind of like your last mentions). Overall, still enjoyed!! Give you guys 6 cherries/2 tomatoes! 😁

[@helicopter160]

Love the doggo in the back!

[@screebb]

Tyler’s reaction at 34:34 is me when I find the rolls at Golden Corral

[@thatguycam1989]

Some others I love are Hurkyl's Recall, Capsize, Aetherize, Paradoxical Outcome, Curfew, and Filter Out. Most are pretty niche, but I think Recall and Filter Out are the best.

[@mthlay15]

With all your arguing and yelling, I honestly feel asleep during my first watch. I guess it reminded me of home. Thanks, yall. 😅

[@kennethritacco6959]

Upset that y’all didn’t have “Bounce” by Lil Bow Wow playing in the background for the ultimate meme-age

[@NotAWhaleAtAll]

Left a comment on the previous video 'sad that you've missed Jhoira' and now they talk about Jhoira, great

[@MufasaTheMan]

My friend said this (and other of your) podcasts have Always Sunny in Philadelphia vibes. 100% correct and not at all a bad thing. Please, as always, never change.

[@Elderiah]

The subtle difference between “rate” and “rank” 😂. Love the content!

[@eme2costa]

Your evaluation system is definitely the best, I don’t remember the last time I laughed so hard at a podcast episode. Soul partition deserves more, you're adding a commander tax to any nonland permanent on your opponents board, if you hit a kraum with it it'll just never come back, it's nice with dockside and breach, it's amazing with drannith, just so versatile

[@3N3MYKN1GHT]

Was super sick to see Tyler on the sculpty bois podcast

[@addicted2SODA1]

Kinda surprised you guys didn't mention rushing river. It was spicy tech in ukkima food chain for awhile as a way of removing 2 syax pieces. I know it's seen other fringe play too.

[@ownageDan]

Capsize wasn't mentioned - infinite mana with dockside, provided opponents have enough artifacts on field, and from there you can bounce all your opponents permanents, even lands.

[@jonlamoreaux2228]

cameron bustin out the eminem bar tender meme "You only get one shot!"

[@fevereddreams3805]

best one yet. pure comedy. i love it.

[@conwaylynch1080]

When Cam made that tuck into bed analogy I thought to myself, "Yeah! That's right!" The boys really trampled him. Cam, you're right - you are not tucked in when you are lying on top of the bed, just like a card is not tucked in when it's on top of the deck.

[@thehitchickersbro1]

“A whole podcast about bouncespells? What is it 5 minutes” Sits and enjoys 45 minutes of content

[@Highwang]

Kinda wild that we went full punk on rankings,something literally everyone watches and takes for fact

[@chumq]

What a hilarious episode 😂 Keep it up winners!

[@JosueOnYT]

Future Ways to Rank Things: How much *should* this card cost assuming no card could cost more than $XX? If Weevil Underwood threw this overboard, how upset would you be? How long before you reach acceptance in the five stages of grief would it be when it's cut from your deck? How many minutes could you fill trying to convince someone the card should be banned before they realized you're full of it? How many units of Helen is the card (look it up)? How many Fonzies is it (look it up)? How often do you ask yourself why the card is in your deck?

[@mrtuber132]

"Spin" means send to top of library! I've also heard gust in MTG, spin is common in other card games.

[@SmithLeong]

Best rating system ever!! Love this episode! The dynamic of u guys is amazing!! 😂

[@twi1ightknight]

Please rate things according to bees in your pants

[@heirkaiba]

This podcast gets 3 Blue Eyes outta 3 cause I ripped the 4th one 😂Grandpa Yugi 😂

[@LeonardoVarini]

Moonsnare Prototype is also a good one, it kind of mixes Otawara with Suberge. I am really curious about that Emry deck back there. 👀

[@artsinistorm9835]

That one was very interesting ! I see Tyler has a Emry deck will he play it on video ?

[@allbadmanners]

I'd say Submerge and Commit // Memory are bounce spells. They're kind of closer to tuck spells but they really only see play in Yuriko and some blue decks. I wanna see what the best tuck spells are in cEDH. They used to be huge when you could tuck commanders but I wonder if any still see play.

[@bahshiba7367]

I was wondering about Brazen B, I was thinking where it could fit in Yuriko, but I wasn't sure if it was worth cutting Chain of Vapor, Cyc Rift or Submerge. On the plus it's a re-usable bounce spell that can give me an evasive creature for Ninjutsu, on the downside it can't target my own things and it costs 2 for a pretty vanilla bounce spell.

[@janmelantu7490]

It hits any nonland permanent an opponent controls. That’s pretty good for 2 mana, especially when it comes stapled to a flash flier.

[@bahshiba7367]

@@janmelantu7490 That's fair, I just wasn't sure the disperse half justified the 3/1 half. Do you think it's better than chain of vapor in this case or should I bite the bullet and just run another bounce spell?l

[@mightyone3737]

I don't like bounce very much, but I think I need to get Chain in my mono-Blue deck for sure, that's some sick value. I think my best bounce effect in that deck is Capsize, which is mostly an infinite mana outlet. In my cEDH deck I technically still have Clutch of the Undercity in there as a Transmute spell, but I'm not going to lie, I actually like having a 3 mana life loss spell at instant speed that can also tutor up a win con (that I'm hopefully ready for), it's hilarious to punish a greedy Naus that's about to win.

[@kylarcheng1346]

Btw 4.5/5 is 36/40 not 34/40, so cam rated chain of vapor higher

[@harleywilliams1821]

All I kept thinking about was "WHAT DO THE NUMBERS MEAN" from cod, and honestly Ive been asking the same question in the same tone. On the more important note I'd rate this 7 bologna's, thank you.

[@solotxt7385]

I think a good thing you can include next time when you're rating cards is that at the end of the video you can give us a snap shot of all the cards with their respective ratings so that we can take it all in at once.

[@JustRightPinedo]

IMHO. (and this is pretty close to rank order from video) Best to worst. 1. Otawara (modal, uncounterable works under Grand abolisher effects) 2. March of Swirling (deals with every creature you need when it's time to win often cheaper than...) 3. Cyc Rift (overload) 4. Chain of Vapor (politics, can bounce your own mana vault/dockside + spot remove opponent's permanent etc.) Note: I think you rarely need to go past 4 colors let alone 5 (latter maybe if you're in 1-2 colors) 5. Alchemists (discounted when bouncing your own) 6. Winds of Rebuke (corner cases can hold over a breach loop/nerf a top deck tutor) 7. Snap ("Free" only creatures tho) 8. Submerge ("free" IF an opponent is on green or you're on Yavimayah, in which case better than snap but worse in a vacuum) 9. Stern dismissal OR Soul partition (hot take but the exile and 2 mana tax matters) 10 Geistwave #10 is best compared directly to Alchemists retrieval and an interesting case for why in a vacuum +1 mana > than +1 Card. If bouncing your own [Dockside] you'd prob rather have the mana esp if you just filled your hand. Given there might be corner cases where you're recovering after a missed win, and only have a couple cards in hand in which case you're already netting big mana from dockside and the card is valuable. sorry I'm so late to the party here

[@assael2]

Something for the upside of that creature that bounces. when you cast it people don't know what you're bouncing. so it can get through some counters

[@zilkay6558]

Video #2 of requesting a food chain video detailing food chain combos, the commanders, its place in the meta, and why first sliver food chain is bad compared to other food chain deck

[@sashawillow9064]

just wanted to say y'all make great content & you're super funny! also please more Tyler on the show! his perspectives and thought processes are fantastic to listen to and also he's cute af

[@swat6591]

I'm going to rate the rating system a Wes Anderson Movie over Peace in the Middle East

[@mariambarnes4023]

When they say "boys will be boys", this podcast is what they're talking about.

[@ThePossibilityStorm]

"Why are you guys like this?" - Tyler 2023

[@leaforgie]

A tier list to look at would be nice to see rather than remembering how many oranges out of bananas a card was

[@tehfurbolg4960]

I LOVE this episode. I am laughing so much. Thank you!

[@zer0323]

You guys talked about the colossal skyturtle that is an uncounterable bounce spell or an uncounterable regrowth effect? I’ve been using it and it does great in lists that like uncounterable bounce spells.

[@jtmoney606]

We are testing a new one called machine over matter in urza poly kracken and it’s been pretty good, we can cast it for 1 like vapor if we control a artifact creature which is the construct usually, I may go back to vapor but it’s sitting nicely in kinnan right now lol

[@princesstheadorablecat]

The gentleman with tattoos on his arms looks a lot like the actor Sam Raimi who played Harry in Spiderman movies.

[@dimitriosdoulgeris4659]

Holy hell, I immediately got Cam's reference to Smack that by Akon and Eminem. Awesome song. I would really like to give you some more.

[@puntedagain398]

Learn the rules Follow the rules Break the rules Make the rules Be the rules.

[@spyrdian]

Ya'all should do a play to win gameplay on cPDH!

[@Funder1Nk]

Soul partition is 100% a bounce spell

[@jakejclarke]

bounce'n'tax = good spell

[@maxgonzalez2854]

As someone who’s as good with numbers as cam is with pronunciation, I think we really need an animal and color rating system.

[@jtyree0226]

It’s one thing to use priority as a strategy in cEDH to get a counter out of another player’s hand. One thing I’m not alright with is mana bullying. If you chain my permanent and expect me to sack a land to take care of the win on board why would I do that? To not lose? If I’m losing to you chaining my permanent and the stone rain, there is no point in me continuing. I’ll just go to next game. I think you guys are to set on winning(very low % too) that you sacrifice the integrity of the game. By me passing priority or or letting the chain resolve it sets a precedent.

[@manhattanblockade8544]

You spin back to the deck 😊

[@tora17]

My favorite part of this podcast was the cat out of yellow rating

[@egoish6762]

Is filter out a playable bounce spell? Bounce all my rocks and replay them as a ritual in blue, at the same time bounce all my opponents non-creature stax pieces and rocks, pass through combat to get rid of their floated mana? I go back and forth between alchemists retreival and geistwave as my preferred 4th bounce spell in dockside based decks. I like retreival in t&k but i play geistwave in kess since recasting it from the yard is card draw on top of a ritual, though i've just realised according to Cams rules i play 5 in Kess since i have march as well.

[@justusnation66]

I believe submerges "to top of the library" is called spin? Like you "spin" your sensei's diving top

[@athenaadams8341]

Idk, our group (and all the ones I know actually?) use "spin top" to refer to its 1 activated ability. "Plow" was for sending stuff to the top of the library, after Plow Under, but of course that runs into Swords to Plowshares.

[@anthonyfinnimore7394]

Did this cover Filter Out? I think I missed it but I'm too lazy to flick through and find it

[@chrisv6435]

this episode was a solid 4 bugs out of 5 chairs

[@dvdpekard]

What about Colossal Skyturtle? I'm running it as a 2nd Otawara or another Regrowth effect in my Edric, it's been doing work.

[@DCII]

Putting a card on top is just Topping it, as in when you have a Sensei's Divining Top in play you say "I'm gonna Top" or "I'll top my Top."

[@Ichtotenn]

I once playing animar in a cedh pod venser'd a niv-mizzet on the stack. He was pissed 😂

[@mrniceguy00987]

do best removal spells. maybe a top five for each single color removals then duel colors and possibly 3 color removal spells in cedh?

[@gunner9113]

hey as someone that is new to magic and watching some CEDH if you did a vid of like combos and what combos to look out for i thank that will be a good vid

[@82ndhaydini]

Fate seal? Is rhat the term yall were looking for with submerge? Ive only seen the term used with jace the mind sculptor but

[@wyattcalcote5867]

I think the term you are looking for for top of library is fate seal? Maybe idk though

[@GTIBROS]

One Bluemerang had me ded lolol

[@TSKClanOfficial]

And repeal? It can bounce your rock and give you a card back, usually used as a ritual but it can be a good removal too!

[@BlobbyMauler]

Isn’t that chain of vapour situation of targeting someone else’s card to make them sac a land to deal with the actual threat kind of in a similar space as priority / mana bullying? I feel like if someone tried this on me I just wouldn’t continue the chain and take the L. In the same way if someone said I’m only going to cast my counterspell if you crack all your treasures or whatever.

[@abbiemcdaniels3122]

You Come To A River is a great bounce option in Orvar because it also acts as a clone trigger effect without bouncing, just another backup targeter Also why is Fading Hope not cEDH playable?

[@TripsAhoy]

You guys are always right sometimes! 😂

[@AlexanderIsakson]

Seal of removal? Bounces down dockside, free after first turn played, grave yard replayability, maybe a little too telegraphed

[@aech2629]

If I had a dollar for every time a friend in my playgroup pulled the “I’m gonna make you sac a land or we lose” chain of vapor move. It’s a simultaneously genius and ultimate scum lord play every time