Video Response to Hickok45....Loading 5 vs 6

[@anangryranger]

Thanks for the information and sacrifice of your primers! As a trained and licensed professional gunsmith for 30 years, I can attest to the fact that the SAA safety notch is VERY robust. Very. After graduating from the gunsmithing school in Trinidad Colorado, I apprenticed under an old master gunsmith for four years. My "graduation" test was in the form of a box of parts of a Colt Single Action Army, many of which were from the 1880's. I was told to build a revolver from these parts and a block of walnut for the grip. I was given 48 hours. Among the parts, there was a .429" barrel and a .44 Spl cylinder. Two days later, I handed the compleated weapon to my mentor. After time on the range, I received a smile from the man and the pistol. All that said, I am quite sure that the safety notch is a sound and reliable feature of the Colt SAA. As much as I admire the Duke, he was simply acting and repeating a script, and not stating a physical fact. Now, y'all can argue that amongst yourselves. I'm outta here....

[@plowboysghost]

Exactly. Thanks!

[@George-ue3er]

Keep in mind around the time he originally stated the load five. It was the hayday of Westerns and people were buying cowboy guns and had no clue how to actually use them. Several people lost toes or put holes in unitended places. It was a PSA for all those folks.

[@plowboysghost]

@@George-ue3er To be honest...there are a lot of people who don't know much about single actions, today, as well...and some of them are making videos "schooling" others about them.

[@roryross3878]

Laymen here, so did you bore out the barrel or restrict the cylinder or is .429" the actual bore diameter of nominal .44caliber rounds?

[@anangryranger]

.429" is the standard groove diameter of that caliber. And the throats of all six chambers matched as well. Made for a very accurate shooter.

[@sackett68]

Sam Colt put the safety notch there for a reason. Can't say for sure what the old timers did but I bet the majority wanted that 6th round more than they worried about an accidental discharge. But that's just my opinion.

[@plowboysghost]

Well...technically Sam was dead before this gun was ever designed, but Colt certainly put the safety notch in the design for the purpose of safely carrying 6. They marketed it as a 6 shooter.

[@therealhawkeyeii7888]

While I agree that the safety notch is there for a reason, and it's reliable, Sam was long dead by the time Colt engineers came up with the idea.

[@sackett68]

@@therealhawkeyeii7888 That's true. I forgot that he had died before the 1873 was produced. But still it was put there for a reason. Personally I would carry it with the hammer on an empty chamber. That's the one thing I like about the Ruger Vaqueros etc. The transfer bar setup eliminates the issue.

[@TUCOtheratt]

Great video and demonstration. What's most puzzling to me is that your brass did not completely lock up in the cylinder. A very hard lockup/binding has happened every time I fired primed only brass unless I drilled the flash hole to 1/8 inch as I do for blank ammo.

[@plowboysghost]

It usually does. I don't know how I avoided that outcome here.

[@strshooter7399]

Just my understanding… Without powder and a projectile, the case doesn’t expand to grip the sides of the chamber, hence preventing the primer from moving out of the primer pocket. Now, I’ve seen light loads (powder & projectile) have a primer move backwards out of the pocket. I’ve seen heavy loads flatten the primers almost completely (too much pressure for sure). Again, I’m no expert, but my thoughts are in a regular load, the primer fires, and as the powder begins to fire, the cartridge is pushed back flat against the breach face where the firing pin comes out. As the powder burns through its cycle, the brass expands, grips the chamber and doesn’t allow the brass to move back forward, so unless there is an over pressure, the primer stays in its pocket. Not enough pressure (just a light load, squib load, primer only), the brass does not grip the chamber, and even the small pressure just a primer might have, pushes against the primer, and it moves some out of its pocket. Being a reloader for many years, even a new piece of brass, and a … tight fitting primer doesn’t require a huge amount of force to seat a primer. So, even a small amount of pressure pushing on a primer without the benefit of the powder’s gas pressure deforming the brass enough to grip the brass case in the chamber so it doesn’t move (much), is sufficient to push a primer out a bit. I keep my loads in my reloaded ammo between the start loads in a reload handbook, try to stay away from the highest loads. Hard on the firearm, usually, but not always, doesn’t give the best accuracy (for me). I hunt only paper & steel, no need for bear killing loads… yet… 👍😎. I know, nothing to do with the loading 5 or 6 rounds, but I own only a Ruger Bisley in SA, which 5 or 6 loadings isn’t an issue. I do wonder if refitting my Ruger to simulate a Colt SA with 4 notches would be something that I’d like better than what the Ruger comes with normally. I don’t have SA Colt or clone. But I’ve thought I might like the Ruger to have a hammer location like the SA Colt or clone…? Just wondering if there is an advantage to the Colt/Clone style?

[@gusr6]

Excellent video Plowboy. The hammer safety notch on my 1st gen Colt SAA seems pretty darn sturdy. I never could understand all this talk of loading 5. Definitely a myth worth busting. The safety on my Uberti 1858 Remington however is an entirely different matter. The hammer skips back onto a cap with relative ease.

[@jeffreyelliott622]

I would AGREE 100% that the COLT SAA .45COLT loaded 6 rounds and hammer pulled back in the safety notch I would carry and feel safe and confident in doing so and with all due respect to Hickok45 and how he wants to carry his single action army pistols is his busyness but I also say to heck with that cowboy hollywood load bullshit especially if you're going to battle the gun holds 6 so shoot 6 !!!

[@plowboysghost]

It's a matter of personal comfort, I reckon. I have no issue with carrying 5...as a matter of fact, I've carried 5 in this one all day today. I take issue only with the contention that it is inherently unsafe to carry it the way it was designed, and that loading 5 was how "they all did it back in the day".

[@James-dq3jo]

It takes so long to reload those things, that a tactical/combat reload was pretty much out of the question unless you could find some cover for a little while. I too have little doubt that the old timers carried 6, especially if they thought there was a reasonable chance they’d have to use it. The open-tops don’t have a notch, they have a pin in between the chambers, that goes into the slot in the hammer. The Remington types have notches. That doesn’t work very well with brass cartridges, and lo and behold that’s when the 1/4-cock safety notch shows up. As a side note, the notches are better/more positive (especially if you file down the bottom of the hammer just a little) but the pins are plenty positive enough for me. If you are worried, you can take your gun, lower the hammer onto the pin, and try to give it a good hard twist. If you can twist it onto a cylinder, maybe you’d better not use the pins. If it’s locked on there solid, you can decide for yourself what you’re comfortable with. Is 5 safer? Yes. Did some people carry 5? Probably. People thought about safety back then too, they just didn’t think about it in the same way we typically do now. Sure, you can break anything, if you try hard enough. The question is, how much force does it take to break it, and how likely is it that you will run across that force, and is that a risk you personally are willing to take.

[@FloridaBoyBushcraftSurvival]

I have a Ruger Single Six built in late 1972. It is a 4 click model and has a frame mounted firing pin. I carry it with 6 rounds in the cylinder and the hammer on the safety notch. With the strength of Ruger revolvers I feel quite safe with the hammer in the safety notch position.....

[@Brett235]

Thanks for the video and instructions. My grandfather carried a colt single action army that he got back when he was running shine and he carried that old gun until he passed away in 2007, he was 90 years old. I remember very well him showing me that he carried it with six and the hammer resting on the safety notch. If I'm no mistaken I think it was chambered in 45lc. My Uncle has it now.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

“THOUGH SHALL NOT TEMPT NOR CHALLENGE THE HICKOK45.” -Hickok 4:5

[@plowboysghost]

🤣

[@Cannonbawlz]

He's more like hiccup 45 😄

[@davidtrindle6473]

This isn’t really true. Hickock 45 seems very open-minded. He might state an opinion, but he never seems to take the “my way or the highway“ approach.

[@HILLBILLY_HARD]

Unlike Randy Blaukat, Hikcok45 does not think that his shat does not stinketh..

[@bhoges5145]

In 2000 I purchased a Ubert Cattlemen 5.5 inch in 45 Colt. I sold the revolver due to so many issues. The metal was so soft. First issue was the firing pin fell out of the hammer. After I replaced it the next issue was the timing kept going off. After the 2nd time it was repaired, I sold it. I bought Ruger Vaquero's and never looked back.

[@plowboysghost]

@@bhoges5145 Thanks for watching and sharing 🍻

[@Rustebadge]

Uberti (Beretta) make a lot of guns but not a lot of quality guns. I bought (and sold quickly) an Uberti S&W #3 in .44-40 and it hit 10" left and 18" low at 7-10 yards. No it wasn't me, the shooter. I'm aware that low & left is a common impact area for right-hand shooters but I am pretty accomplished and rarely have hits in that area. I sold it as quick as possible. When I contacted the commercial seller, they said that firearms of the cowboy-era were inaccurate and weren't expected to shoot well. I own several "era" cowboy firearms (Colts, Winchesters) and they all have extremely good accuracy and reliability.

[@MAGA2024.]

i stay away from uberti, bright name and marketing, trash guns, my opinion

[@QualityPen]

Unfortunately, I bought an engraved revolver from them, not knowing the reputation. I’d always heard revolvers were reliable so I thought I couldn’t go wrong. The gun does not work. After firing, the cylinder ceases up and refuses to rotate except without force. On some occasions I’ve had to disassemble it. The wheel is also sitting loose so that it wobbles. Forget accuracy, ergonomics, aesthetics… The most important thing in a gun is if it is reliable and consistently goes bang when I need it to. I’ve always loved the AK and Glock platforms for their rugged reliability even though there are more accurate or better looking or less expensive options. The revolver I got has glaring issues and demonstrates Uberti has no concern for reliability and couldn’t even be bothered to test fire it. I will never again get anything from Uberti.

[@DeucesWildRC]

Great demo, my two Uberti 1873 colt clones have the same safety notch and they both work good, I’d trust them loaded with all 6 chambers while holstered, thanks for sharing Sir 👍🇺🇸

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you.

[@jamesa.7604]

You did a really good demonstration and I think you made your point. I thought that if your revolver had a transfer bar mechanism, it was safe to load all six chambers. I've only owned one single action revolver to date, a Ruger New Model Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt. I bought it because I intended to join SASS but I ended up not joining and sold it. I will definitely keep this advice in mind should another single-action revolver follow me home in the future.

[@plowboysghost]

Thanks, James. Yeah, the transfer bar guns are generally good to go fully loaded. This is dealing with Colt 1873 pattern revolvers that don't have transfer bars.

[@kvstevie]

Old story that cowboys would carry 5 loaded and a rolled up bill in the 6th as burying money. Probably a myth

[@Obamas_Nipple]

i heard that too

[@jackdougherty139]

The bill would get burned by the powder flashes !

[@GeminoSmothers]

Guaranteed myth

[@PulledPurk]

To pay for burial

[@Obamas_Nipple]

@@jackdougherty139 unless it was wrapped in a wax paper or some 1800s equivalent

[@jimmyboredom3519]

Something I noticed watching videos and browsing the internet is everyone is worried about the single action revolver safety notch. But almost everyone hates the push button safety on new lever actions and says "it was safe enough with a rebounding hammer." Its literally the same thing

[@plowboysghost]

It really is. Some may point out that the revolver notch isn't as robust and repeat the lie that it is therefore fragile...but Ive seen enough to the contrary to know they're wrong.

[@Paladin1873]

When I bought my first SAA almost a half century ago I experimented with the safety notch and decided it was not something I would use or trust. Part of this rationale was a fear it would fail at some point, but another part of it was the simple fact that when the safety notch is engaged, the hammer slips forward a fair amount. I found this to be an awkward location to place for my trigger finger when drawing and cocking the revolver.

[@plowboysghost]

@@Paladin1873 I just don't like where the trigger sits on the safety notch...but I trust the notch itself.

[@gunsmackamigos1159]

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to show everyone this.

[@plowboysghost]

Thanks, my friend.

[@wrbruce6100]

There might be a time a man might need that other round. Myself I would always carry six and buy you a holster with a leather hammer loop another safety that will keep your gun from falling out of the holster if it is pulled tight. Wonder how many people have gotten killed because of a gun falling out of a holster compared to just plain accidental discharge. Just like a older marlin rifle, a safety notch was sufficient and they come along and put a extra safety on it. I agree with you one hundred percent. Take care.

[@plowboysghost]

Hammer thongs definitely help.

[@paul55austria51]

absolutely true, but before you trust the SA on that point, test test and test again. And make sure there's no internal wear that won't stop the hammer solid!

[@plowboysghost]

@@paul55austria51 Solid advice.

[@redtra236]

The problem with that is you have to cock the hammer with it in the holster for it to release and also presents the possibility of fumbling the draw/accidentally shooting yourself.

[@djscrush2664]

@@redtra236you don’t cock the hammer in the holster to release the hammer thong. If it’s adjusted properly you won’t be able to. A hammer thong for single action holsters is the small loop of leather that you see in the movies being flipped of the hammer with the thumb before the gunfight in the street. Need a push to get them off the hammer so it does just flop off when riding. It’s tight that the hammer can’t be cocked

[@murphy4yt]

Safer still completely unloaded. It’s a gun, it’s supposed to be dangerous. Best safety is still between your ears.

[@plowboysghost]

Agreed.

[@NuttyCuts_]

Took me a minute to realize you’re talking about the brain, and not putting the gun to your forehead lol

[@gonzothawarrior]

Yes sir amen

[@richardsuggs8108]

An empty gun is a lovely paperweight.

[@davidhoffman6980]

To quote Rooster Cogburn " A gun that's unloaded and cocked ain't good for nothing."

[@EmmL1223]

Thank you for this test. I got me a rough rider to practice the SAA. I found that when I want to drop the hammer when it’s already pulled to the rear, I can depress the trigger and after the first click I can release the triggger and it will end up in the 1st position the hammer without the pin resting on the primer.

[@plowboysghost]

@@EmmL1223 I e testing the Heritage RR enough to advise on that one.

[@RayParnell-l5d]

A heritage rough Rider has a safety on it

[@EmmL1223]

@@RayParnell-l5d but also has the safety notch in hammer.

[@oldhead_]

Well, learned something here today..and I am a loyal Hickok45 fan and follower..not sure if I’ll load six in my pietta Californian or not but definitely interesting..love your vids. New sub.

[@mhlaw229]

That's a nice discussion and demo. Thanks for doing it!

[@tomshepherd4901]

Great demonstration. The 1870 Colt manual says it is "safe to carry" with the hammer in the safety notch.... The official army manual of the time also called for loading 6. I have found no evidence that loading 5 was a common practice in the 1800s. Modern reproductions have a transfer bar safety, so it's considered safe to carry 6 in a modern reproduction anyway.

Yes I agree, and the hammer transfer safety mechanism although a bit more "to go wrong" is a very good safety system..

[@rogermorrill4700]

1870 manual would refer to the open top that had safety notches between the nipples

[@johncarver8125]

​@@rogermorrill4700Yes, SAA is an 1873

[@johnnyappleseed6665]

Wyatt Earp among others have stated they carried 5 rounds for safety.. you can find his advice on gunfighting online. Its pure Gold.

[@tomshepherd4901]

@@johnnyappleseed6665 It's a nice account from the book "Wyatt Earp: Frontier Marshal" by Stuart N. Lake, published in 1931, 2 years after Earp's death in 1929. While much of it is born out by historical accounts, most historians consider the book "highly imaginative" and "largely fictional". While the "cowboy load", may have been practiced by some, I have yet to find an historical account from the 1800's to corroborate it. The army officially called for loading 6 rounds, as did the manufacturers of the guns. It should be noted that open carry was not permitted in Dodge City, KS nor in Tombstone, AZ, nor most populous towns in the late 1800s. City ordinances in most places prohibited carrying firearms in town as a matter of public safety. In fact, the Texas Live Stock Journal dated June 5, 1884 stated, "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly weapons." Many cattle ranches and cattle towns frowned on the practice of open carry in those days. Most photos of ranch hands from the late 1800s show them unarmed. It was most common for ranchers to hire armed security agents for long cattle drives if necessary, while prohibiting their workers from carrying guns. If you are aware of any newspaper articles or historical records from the time related to this practice, I'd love to see them. I just haven't been able to find any first-hand accounts or records of the "cowboy load". It should also be noted that the term "cowboy" was derogatory back then as was the term "wild west".

[@buffalobob870]

Thanks for the demo. I will load 5 because that's my habit though there is no doubt that if I were carrying it with the potential of having to use it defensively, I'd absolutely load 6.

[@plowboysghost]

Sounds like a plan!

[@Thatonedude227]

Ok but why would you ever carry a revolver as your self defense gun lmao

[@rccola200]

@@Thatonedude227 why not? Rideculous question

[@hunnerat-touaregi4439]

​@@Thatonedude227dumb question. Because when i squeeze the weapon to your face. Less of your face exists. Got it?

[@Thatonedude227]

@@rccola200 Why would you not carry something with more capacity while being smaller and semi-automatic? Cool factor isn't really a consideration when it comes to actually protecting yourself.

[@MitchC357]

Good video. I am trying to learn as much as possible before I buy my first 4 click .45 lc. And I always carried a 1911A1 with one in the stack.

[@johndpearson64]

I once saw a Colt owners manual from long ago that read load six and use the safety notch.

[@TheWirksworthGunroom]

Safety notch is not included in the design to make another job for the factory. The problem is more that people don't use it as intended. I have less confidence in the "floating firing pin" system that Uberti now use. A bit of grit or rust in that and it could fail. There is NO safety notch so the half-cock has to be used for that purpose where required for certain range practices.

[@hercules1073]

Back in the 70's you rarely heard anyone speak of the load one skip one ssa loading and when you did it was because they were a member of a club that required it for safety. When cas became extremely popular is when when this nonsense spread like wildfire and then enter the internet and especially youtube where fanboys not only follow fanboys, but spread their ideaology as fact and then you end up with history rewritten...you know like it has been with the 45 Colt...now it's the 45 long and so on.

[@plowboysghost]

There are a lot of things that aren't 100% accurate that get spread as truth on these here interwebz. Before the internet, our gun perceptions were shaped and distorted by mostly gun writers and gun store personnel.

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

​@@plowboysghostand by politicians and news media who blame the gun rather than the irresponsible adult who left a loaded gun where a toddler could get it.

[@rogermorrill4700]

Seem to remember in the 70s that a single action fell off the dashboard or a pickup and put a bullet in his leg, then THE LAW SUIT caused Ruger to go to the NEW MODEL S and offer the conversion for the 3 screw model

[@redtra236]

With originals I don't think its nonsense the metals used back then were a lot softer

[@michaelmcilwain9793]

The only gripe I have is this: I see this repeatedly. A shooter will be at the firing line, with no intention of leaving the firing line. The shooter will repeat that he only loads five etc. etc. etc. Look, if you are just going to load the gun and raise it up and fire it, for goodness sakes put six in it. If you are going to put it in a holster and carry it around put five in it and lower the hammer on an empty chamber or put six in it and use the safety notch. Whichever makes you more comfortable. If you are at the firing line and don't intend on leaving the firing line, it is NOT unsafe to load six.

[@walkingwolf8072]

Empty chamber is a movie concept, the actual cowboys carried with the firing pin between the case heads of the balloon 45 colt cases. I have safely carried six for decades using the old cowboy method.

[@patthegunsmith]

EXACTLY!

[@vladturbin7578]

I just can not understand what is the purpose to carry SAA in any other state, than loaded with 6 and put a firing pin between the case heads. Seems to be as safe as with pin on empty chamber...

[@alanhope1190]

Agree 100%

[@BogeyTheBear]

You're relying on the _firing pin_ to act as the cylinder stop in such an instance. You may be willing to risk bending that pin under jostling, but are you doing this while riding in the saddle? Hours upon hours of a cartridge rim banging against the pin while on the horse-- the picture may look a little different. Five in the saddle, and you slip in the sixth on the walk into fire.

[@robertcook9907]

Have a replica 1851 in 38 special and carry it also with the hammer down between cylinders

[@grizzlyblackpowder1960]

Some three click single actions also have a safety notch. Pretty much the entire 1875 rem reproduction line has a safety notch and all the cap and ball guns have in-between studs.

[@johnblankenship4295]

Still load six in my pietta 1873 ans use the safety notch. Never sn issue there. My uberti 1873 incorporates a firing pin mechanism so the pin floats until fully cocked and the trigger is fully pressed rearward. Both systems are great designs.

[@redesert_boy8202]

Thanks for taking the time mr. plowboysghost to demo as it becomes much more clearer than just talking about it. Be safe and well sir!

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you.

[@louisianagray8618]

Yes sir totally agree that's the way I was taught from a boy I always loaded 6

[@bumpercoach]

so is there a safety notch on most SAAs? I know it was invented earlier than 1873 so Ive wondered why they didnt use it

[@earlmiller6093]

I agree with this vid and fully approve !!! I carry 6 loaded.. and utilize the safety notch … have for years….and will keep doing so for years… great vid bro!!

[@plowboysghost]

@@earlmiller6093 Thanks for watching 🍻

[@FirearmNation]

Im carry on the safety notch moving forward. Ive been searching and searching for this information for a while and couldnt find anything. Came across this video by a miracle and confirmed what i was thinking. Thank for the video!

[@FoulPet]

A revolver is always ready even on an empty cylinder. You don't need to chamber a round like semi autos. That said, I'm not a fan of short changing your round count.

[@NukeCult666]

For me it would come down to function of the revolver. Taurus gaucho is a 4 click with a transfer bar I've always carried 6.

[@Thepreppersbunkeroutdoors]

Good video. An unloaded gun is a dangerous gun. Treat all guns loaded- because they should be. 💥💥💥

[@boomstick4054]

My Colt blackpowder revolvers have a safety notch between each primer , or a single pin between 2 particular primers to rest the hammer on. I load 6 in the 1851, & I load 5 in my 5 shot 1849 Pocket Model Colt. The Pietta 1873 45 Colt has the safety notch in the hammer action. I load 6. I would get rid of that thing if I couldn’t safely load & carry 6.

[@ChuckinSteel]

Nobody carried 5 in a 6 shooter . It's a relatively new idea from competition shooting. You are 100% correct brother.

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

Very good video. I hope we can get a.r. American enough money I think that video would break the internet

[@plowboysghost]

I hope so. Thanks! 🍻

[@EliteNirvana]

They make models now that have a free floating fire pin where the fire pin will move back n forth freely until u squeeze the trigger then it becomes stiff. ILetting u load all six n not have to worry about something striking the hammer I have tested these to see how dependable they are and my findings have been they work I've never had a cartridge not fire when supposed to

[@plowboysghost]

I owned one Cattleman II equipped gun. I will never own another. I'm fine with a Ruger and it's transfer bar, but otherwise make mine a 4 click true Colt pattern with the safety notch. My Cattleman II pattern as, you're describing, as well as a lot of folks', malfunctioned. Light primer strikes and no fire=no bueno!

[@dannybrittonknives]

Thanks for the demonstration!!

[@plowboysghost]

Thanks for taking time to watch and comment!

[@Slippindisc]

hey I'm not arguing with you in any way or form, and I don't have any SAA's. But I do wonder, if you were to drop the gun on the butt, and the inertia was enough to unweight the spring pressure off the hammer, and off the safety notch. Then, in the same instant after landing on the butt, the hammer hit the ground. Basically if youre filiar with the Sig p320 AD debacle I think thats what happened there. possible?

[@plowboysghost]

@@Slippindisc I would say there's about zero chance of that....with how the notch is designed and the mere 1/8" of travel from the notch to the fully down position.

[@guerom1367]

I have 2 sa revolvers but don't know much about them. I have a chiappa 22 10 that i have a problem loading bcuz when in half cock the cylinder doesn't always spin to load so i have to hold the hammer while loading which i know ain't safe so i aim it in a safe direction while loading at the range. What can i do to fix it? I also just got a ruger blackhawk 357 3 screw revolver. Haven't shot it yet and not sure how many clicks it has but this one seems to spin fine in half cock to load. Do they have the safety cock?

[@Reshtarc]

My Rem 1875 9mm has the same hammer safety. Works fine. I still load one skip one just cause I know me. I feel calmer with my SSA loading 5 v 6. Now my 1911 models i carry cocked n locked. Thumb safety and grip safety. Feels right to do so.

[@plowboysghost]

@@Reshtarc 🤠🍻

[@jeffthebaptist3602]

The issue with the SAA is that trigger nose that fits into the safety notch is fairly fragile. In the cases where I've heard of the gun firing, it was because trigger nose snapped and then the gun could fire.

[@scotthamp384]

To be perfectly honest, even though that 1-1-4 is not accurate, better to be safe than sorry in carrying a single action revolver, whether it be a Colt or clone, a Remington copy or Schofield copy By the way, if you owned a Uberti or Pietta clone with a retractable or "floating" firing pin, would you still carry five in it?

[@plowboysghost]

I did own one and carried 6, but I got enough light strikes to defeat the retractable part of the system and didn't keep the gun long.

[@flintstone9846]

I had the same problem with light strikes so replaced the hammer to make it a 4 click.

What about carrying all six loaded in a revolver that has the hammer rest notches in the cylinder and you have the hammer down in one of those notches?? It is pretty hard to get it to slip out so the hammer hits the primer.. This seems to have been the alternative to having the hammer hold back notch..

[@mypetvelociraptor]

Does anyone have any evidence of someone getting shot by their single action army that was on halfcock? I haven’t found it.

[@chillios2222]

the old colt pocket had a notch, and they changed them from 5 to 6 rounds, i have one of the old 31 cal ( capacity they changed from the 5 to 6 at the factory ) my guess is since people were downloading them they wanted 5, but that is me just guessing ( you can also see in heavily used ones wear on the notches), the military was always for safety ,they attempted to make rules for the most safety

[@redtra236]

You can drop the firing pin in between chambers similar to cap and ball revolvers but it seems like a good way to break the firing pin to me if the cylinder got forcibly turned

[@plowboysghost]

@@redtra236 On this one, it's not secure between case rims...meaning the cylinder can easily turn, leaving the pin on a primer. I tested it. It works on others I have.

[@redtra236]

@@plowboysghost Seems pretty secure on mine but probably depends on the specific ammo as rim size likely varies some. I didn't try turning it very hard though because I didn't want to break my firing pin

[@doranmaxwell1755]

Good point about the army saying the 1911 should be loaded with an empty chamber

[@crazyskyguy]

I wonder if this applies to 1875 Remingtons… I’ve seen this feature on both Uberti and Pietta replicas.

[@Bond-l1q]

"we're not gonna Alec Baldwin anybody."

[@jayfrank1913]

It was such a target-rich environment that he hit two people with one bullet.

[@jackdougherty139]

He's also anti-second amendment and a Democrat ! Ironic a guy who hates guns does this !

[@PulledPurk]

He did his job

[@slimebucketproductions5748]

What about a rough rider 22 with a safety on it will it go off with a bump or drop

[@plowboysghost]

With safety on it is safe to carry 6.

[@mkshffr4936]

​@@plowboysghostOr 9. 😇

[@MrLtcslick]

Where did you get that hat?

[@plowboysghost]

WalMart .. several years ago.

[@RickNethery]

Good testing, I always cary revolvers that don't have transfer bars with the hammer down over an empty chamber. Unless I'm shooting then I load 6.

[@plowboysghost]

Thanks. I carried this same gun all day today...with 5 loaded.......for now.

[@BuckIt00]

Great video. It's just a question, not an argument point. One empty in a wheel gun vs. one empty in a semi. Is not exactly the same. You have to manipulate the hammer regardless on a wheel gun. However, with a semi, this is not the case.

[@billj5645]

I'm curious how strong the safety notch really is, and does this vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, era to era, etc. My theoretical concern would be if the gun falls from a more significant distance and lands on a rock directly on the hammer- could it break the hammer/trigger/pivot pin and fire the gun. Being a handgun I think a tall person could manage to accidentally drop the gun from however high they could hold the gun over their head, in excess of 7'. If the gun is much stronger than this then maybe 5 vs. 6 was an argument that never mattered. I don't carry any form of single action so this is purely a rhetorical question to me.

[@PalKrammer]

Very informative - thank you.

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you.

[@ericbrabham3640]

Interesting suject , good points and demonstration. Out of habit I carry five in SAA.

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you.

[@johnnottahcal5725]

Dang right. I think alot of the load 5 came from “The Shootist” and old wives’ tales. I taught my kids to load 5 because they were young and we used blackpowder cap n ball pistols AND no critters were gonna come bite us. Preaching load 5 I doubt jives with history. I load 6 in my peacemaker when at bear camp.

[@jeffrey4547]

i have a 1858 remington and it locks between cylinders even with the converter to 45 colt best part i can switch the cylinders faster then u can reload a revolver. i also have a 22 frontier and it is a small gun to the 45 frontier

[@George-ue3er]

The 1873 SAA has the exact same parts, mechanics, and field of arms as the C&B revolvers. Colt C&B revolvers were designed for all 5 or 6 chambers to be loaded with the hammer resting on the safety pin between the chambers ( similar to the Remington safety notches). The 1873 SAA in .45 Colt and .44-40 were designed to be carried with all 6 chambers loaded and the hammer down with the firing pin resting between the cartridge rims. The safety notch is for safety during uncocking or loading in case the hammer was to slip.

[@plowboysghost]

Well...the mechanism of the '51/ '60 and the '73 are very close, but with the 1873 having a safety notch on the hammer that the earlier cap and ball guns do not. None of my .45 Colt SAA clones will hold the firing pin/hammer nose between case rims. The cap and ball Colts '51 and '60 were designed to be carried between chambers, the '73 in the safety notch. Colt's own literature from as late as the 1930's clearly states that it was designed to be carried in the safety notch.

[@George-ue3er]

@@plowboysghost I think the repros firing pin is a little more robust at the tip than the originals. Mine can do it with certain ammo. It works best with .44s. I think that habit was due to a hold over from the open tops and C&B days. People didn't trust the notch for carrying all the time.

[@plowboysghost]

@@George-ue3er More people distrust the notch today than they did in 1885, I'd bet....due to falsehoods being taught throughout the 20th and into the 21st Centuries.

[@George-ue3er]

I think it's more to do with very poor quality early single action copies.

[@acratone8300]

Poor Yosemite Sam. Bugs always has a seven shooter in the cartoons.

[@plowboysghost]

😁

[@batman88ironman]

I always wondered why the percussion revolvers like the 51 Navy and the 60 army and so on the way they were internally designed. There was a notch in between cylinders that allowed you to rest the hammer in a safe spot. I thought it was weird that when they designed the new Colt single action 1873 there was no safety on it. So you have to carry five rounds instead of six further limiting the capacity. I always thought that was stupid. I mean it made sense but it was stupid. This answers that question. Pulling the hammer back once that is the safety and when they design this the holsters at the time had a flap that would go down over it completely covering the revolver therefore the hammer is not exposed to anything that can potentially pull it back further or smack it forward. So that's how Colt designed. It pulled the hammer back one time and now it's on safe. Makes sense. I mean it's not ideal or perfect but it makes sense. I guess it depends on what you're doing too. If you're a soldier who's marching or riding a horse, this would be the optimal way of carrying it with all six rounds. But if you're a rancher or farmer and you're mostly going to be working then perhaps loading five and resting on an empty chamber would be the best thing for you.

[@redtra236]

Even in the flap holster it could potentially fall out and land on the hammer

[@waynehager4228]

Applies to the 3-screw Ruger also. Which I carry even my new model loaded with 5, just out of habit.

[@StevenMMan]

Locked and cocked since 1911. Also if it was meant to be a five shot revolver for "safety", then why oh why wasn't it designed with five bored through, with the 6th a solid with nothing more than a firing pin notch in the center of it?

[@stevesharber634]

I load 5 but, BUT……nice to know there’s an option. My Cimmeron Model P only has 3 clicks but does have a safety notch. Not sure what that has to do with anything

[@plowboysghost]

Typically, the 3 click Ubertis are the Cattleman II guns, and the first notch on those is half cock..a notch in which they should never be carried. It's important to be certain of what you have. (Since I've not seen/examined yours, I strive to give advice in caution. I don't ever want to inspire someone to do something that gets them or anyone else hurt)

[@stevesharber634]

@@plowboysghost you’re correct. It’s a half cock. My bad. I’ve only ever carried it down on an empty anyway but again, nice knowing the difference. Thanks.

[@plowboysghost]

@@stevesharber634 Yes, sir. Glad I could help.

[@JedTaub]

I have an ancient break-top S&W. It is 2-click, but the first is a safety position and cylinder rotation and the second is full cock. Full down, the firing pin would touch a primer. Note: I have read that the Israeli army carried all semi-autos with an empty chamber, but it was because they were an wide assortment of whatever guns were available and the recruits were mostly very inexperienced. I believe current guns are double-action carried chambered with safeties on.

[@308dad8]

The practice I learned with a live firing pin on the hammer clone of the 1873 clone is carry 5 and hammer down on empty chamber. The new Vaquero and anything like that where you have transfer bars etc it doesn’t matter.

[@AMCguy]

Safety notch is rated fpr 20,000lbs of force or a drop from 12-14 feet

[@DonksGrooves]

Thankfully contrasted with a semi-automatic, on a revolver it isn't a question of whether you can shoot if you've got an empty chamber. You're going to get five shots before you have to reload even if you are on an empty...and it won't affect anything but your sixth shot. Which also makes revolvers an ideal choice in those supposedly places that require you not to have one in the chamber.

[@Aspen7780]

A good example of the real world imitating Hollywood (John Wayne) I’ve always suspected that most of these cases were people who did not know, did not understanding the purpose of the first click (safety notch) or had thought they had put it in that notch but had somehow missed that notch altogether and unintentionally rested the hammer right on a round. That first click the hammer is only barely raised and someone might accidentally miss that the hammer was not set in that notch.

[@wbwills2]

Boss hog lifestyle looks good too me. Hongry for ribs now. NC?

[@joemann3536]

Thank you for the demo

[@plowboysghost]

Thanks for watching.

[@christopherbennett4559]

Most people back when they came out they carried 6. I do also. That has been passed down through the generations. They are made with 6 and they used all 6 and our family used them . I still do .I live on a farm and use a 45 all the time. I don't live in no subdivision or city. My guns get used . Load 6 first click then kill the dick as my great paw paw always said. Sincerely from one Johnny Reb to another. 👍

[@plowboysghost]

Your G, Grandfather sounds like my kind of feller.

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

Traitor is quicker to write than johnny reb.

[@toddrarick7275]

EDC 1911 Condition 1. Bedside SA 6 with safety notch.

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

I’ve taken a habit of filing a small notch into the rims of several cases and resting the firing pin Between cases. Is an old Cowboy trick I picked up from an old family friend. I’ve safely carried 6 in my Single Action revolver that way for years.

[@plowboysghost]

Interesting....

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

@@plowboysghost give it a bash. The notch needn’t be very big, just enough to ‘nest” the fixed firing pin between case rims. Load as you would normally, with the first cartridge having the notch(facing left) centered in the cylinder. When you load the last round, hold the cylinder centered (between chambres) and lower the hammer carefully, it should drop right centre in that notch. You can then safely holster your revolver and carry it safely, fully loaded. No additional steps required for use.

[@jbfastgun]

I've Always Carried Six rounds in my colts and colt reproductions with the hammer on the safety notch. If these guns were made for 5 rounds more than likely they would have been designed with a plugged chamber in the cylinder. Don't take my word for it read the old colt instruction Mauels. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you!

[@jackdougherty139]

I totally agree with that and was thinking the same thing ! Why would you have the safety notch ?

[@BrockNessMonster1991]

I tried commenting to Mr. Hickock about this and the “cowboy load” he speaks of from John Wayne being mainly a Hollywood load and not necessarily historically accurate and he would have none of it lol

[@plowboysghost]

From my personal interactions and dealings with Hickok, he's a great guy who relays info to the best of his knowledge, with the best of intentions and a keen awareness of his responsibility to his viewers to lead them in the safest direction. He, like myself, is limited in the scope of his knowledge. We all are. This subject is a matter of long standing belief for some and they don't feel comfortable changing. That's fine....but comfort and long standing belief don't always walk hand in hand with historical precedent and purpose of design. The fact is, the '73 Colt SAA was designed and marketed to be a six-shooter with a safety notch to facilitate the safe carrying of six rounds. The safety notch isn't "fragile"...so long as there's no serious mechanical or metallurgical defect. He would rather hang onto what he believes, and that's a-okay. I frequently find out I'm wrong about something and strive to embrace the truth...and that's a-okay, too.

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

The Army Ordnance manual did not have anything about 5 vs 6. I thought it was there as well.( Mandela effect) I have read the entire ordinance manual. the only part that broke was the half Notch. it was listed as a manufacturer defect. there was nothing saying to load 5 vs 6. Duke, garrett and i went over it. its not there. Plus i dont see the army spending all this money on this expensive revolver, and not force colt to fix it. if this really was a problem. It would be the revolvers biggest flaw. they made a lot of changes to the SAA. why did they not fix this massive flaw. The first time i have seen anything about 5 vs 6 was after ww2. Thanks for the shout out. I to would love to see A American do his test. I still plan on doing my test someday. i just need to buy a SAA replica. I Just couldn't do it to original first gen colts.

[@plowboysghost]

Where I got that: sceti.library.upenn.edu/fairmanrogers/pdfs/cavalrydrillre00unit.pdf Cavalry Drill Regulations United States Army -adopted Oct. 3, 1891 Page 60... "173. Habitually the pistol will be loaded with only five ball cartridges and the hammer lowered on the empty chamber."

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

That's why we didn't see it it's not in army ordnance it is in cavalry drill

[@plowboysghost]

@@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods I reckon so. I'd forgotten where I'd seen it, myself.

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

@@plowboysghost thanks plowboy. We were looking in the wrong place. Now this is getting interesting.

[@plowboysghost]

@@snappers_antique_firearms I see the military carrying it that way like the way I see their carrying the 1911.... and nothing more, really.

[@GenderSkins]

The only problem I have with this, is when people say to carry it on the half cock position. That is wrong! Safety notch ok fine. Wanna carry 5 in the cylinder and rest on the empty, again sure fine whatever, floats your boat. As for me, if that gun holds six rounds you can bet if I have it on me then it’s going to have all 6 in the cylinder. As there is no substation for experience and familiarity with one’s gun, so that you build confidence in the gun and how to safely carry and use it. That said if you are not confident with the gun, then either don’t use it or use a gun you have enough experience with so that you are confident with it. That’s just my two cents as some one job required them to carry a gun, to protect the lives of others.

[@MW-bi1pi]

The 1873 Colt has a very large and strong notch. So do the Win 92 Levergun and the 1890 Gallery gun. When I carry those guns I use and trust the safety notch. There is something about thumbing back the hammer to full cock that promotes fuller deliberation and concentration.

[@plowboysghost]

Agreed

[@sgtmajtrapp3391]

Most interesting I guess it seems if I needed I could load my origional Colt with a full cylinder on the safety notch. Always knew if that hammer was fully down on the cartridge kaboom. I have always carried five and hammer on an empty. Nice to know if needed I could load six with some level of safety. Yep I'm a big 1911 fan always loaded chamber locked and locked.

[@woodtool2882]

I have two SAA clones. One is an EMF 22lr that holds 10 rounds. The other one I just got is a Cimarron Pistolero. Both of them have a "Safety Notch". I haven't heard of anyone else refer to it this way (as a Safety Notch) but I thought that was what it was. Thanks. And for the record, I would trust the safety notch, if I was going to carry either one of these guns. Truth is that I have them just because I like them, and I need one or the other when I'm watching a cowboy movie. Thanks.

[@plowboysghost]

Thank YOU 🍻

[@ludgerwillgaster2095]

Rugar has a safety plate on the black hawk and it's clones use ....

[@hkvp9tactical418]

Is it the beard, the accent, or the information quality, that gives this guy credibility 😅

[@plowboysghost]

@@hkvp9tactical418 😁🍻 Well, I did flog on the hammer of a gun to prove the point I aimed to make🤣

[@hkvp9tactical418]

@@plowboysghost Never owned this type of firearm, but for 40 years I’ve carried a 1911 C&L. My recently deceased father shot himself in our driveway when I was 9. He’d purchased a revolver and a holster and went out shooting. He was gathering his stuff from the back seat of the car when the revolver discharged and went in behind his knee and stopped at his ankle. Just remember how upset mom was. He never carried on a full chamber again. I carried a S&W 640 (hammer less) and dad saw it was fully loaded and “got very fatherly”. I tried to explain, but he wasn’t having it. When he passed, I found his S&W 65 in his nightstand on an unloaded chamber. I smiled, I cried, I snickered… I do carry that 65 often to keep my father close and sometimes, just sometimes, I carry it on an empty chamber.

[@plowboysghost]

@@hkvp9tactical418 It's easy to get spooked by unintended discharges even if they don't hurt anyone. If they hit you, it would have to be unnerving. Understanding how each system works and the inherent level of safety can alleviate that .

[@gaybear5328]

The High Road sent me here! GREAT video

[@jeffposey3762]

The original Colt instructions from 1873 said to load and carry all 6, and to drop the hammer in between chambers just like the old cap ‘n ball revolvers with the safety notches on the cylinder.

[@ArizonaGhostriders]

Oh heck, I carry 6.

[@plowboysghost]

@@ArizonaGhostriders I do in certain clones.

[@LanceisLawson]

It makes little sense not to load 6 rounds. Consider being a cowboy alone in rough country and coming into a dangerous situation. That 6th loaded round just might be the round that got you out of the dangerous situation. It is easy to say load 5 from the safety of a keyboard and it's quite another to be in a real firefight.

[@walkingwolf8072]

Here is a big problem with any type of carry with an old SA is cocking, and then not shooting that round. That is why there is a safety notch but most people don't use it. With an empty chamber the person carrying can either rotate the cylinder back to the empty chamber, or put the firing pin between case heads. Keep in mind in modern cases the rims are larger diameter than balloon cases, and may need to be trimmed based on the gun. The case heads is only a problem with 45 colt, smaller calibers the FP easily fits between cases.

[@donniejobe5662]

Great video, thanks.

[@mlangfordoutdoor]

With that said I love the old classics but gotta carry something newer like a series 70, there you have it. Glad I found your channel

[@plowboysghost]

@@mlangfordoutdoor Im glad you did, too. Thanks 👍

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

It makes sense that the army would have that 5 load rule. But if you're an average man in the west, would it do any good to have the first cylinder empty when you might need to get the first shot off? I'm a neophyte regarding 6 shooters. But do enjoy the videos, ready to learn. I don't keep my El Patron loaded at all unless I'm going to the range (my father in laws farm). I do keep all my semi-autos loaded though, in case of home invasion. No matter which one I pick, it's ready to run.

[@jamesquinn6874]

That was literally more than any single male one of these guns will ever go through in their lifetimes these days

[@johncanzoneri4771]

It is fine to carry 5 or 6 depending on the circumstances and your personal preference today. However one thing Texas Cowboys didn't carry for the most part weren't 18 dollar Colts, A half month pay when a 1860 Army of 51 Navy was available for pennies on the dollar and ammo was a nickle maybe and on the three month trail with no place to buy any when a bar off lead and a pound of powder could load the whole outfit up. No-one wasted a shot to spook the herd into a fatal stampede. No soldier in hostile territory would carry his 1873 and handicap himself with 5 rounds when his dead mutilated body was at stake. SAFETY first but lawsuits rule the thinking these days and governing internet rules. Our host is a man

[@plowboysghost]

Thank you.

[@johncanzoneri4771]

Your welcome.. I was a Regular Army Soldier and my observation written on when to load and where is based on my personal experience. Lawsuits are driving our present day invironment in our civilian life and most of us can't afford the cost of an innocent word spoken against the new world order and their degenerates out to put women clothes on all us men. You have many friends here up North who enjoy your efforts..

[@bumpercoach]

if you go w/ the old military doctrine seen w/ the early 1903s and Enfields etc w/ mag cut-off then hammer on empty chamber could go w/ reloading (rd by rd topping off) as you cock to fire the empty comes under the gate and you can load it then also after the next shot w/ an added eject empty load new process to have continuous full cylinder like the classic painting of a wilderness mailman having shot 7+ wolves in self defense