Pronouncing "Caesar" wrong...?!

Names of historical figures in English are not necessarily pronounced as they were in ancient languages or in the modern descendents of those languages. Why? Let's find out.
#rant #caesar #latin
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[@polyMATHY_Luke]

🤠 Take my course LATIN UNCOVERED on StoryLearning, including my original Latin adventure novella "Vir Petasātus" learn.storylearning.com/lu-promo?affiliate_id=3932873 🦂 Sign up for my Latin Pronunciation & Conversation series on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/54058196 🦂 Support my work on Patreon: www.patreon.com/LukeRanieri 📚 Luke Ranieri Audiobooks: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com ☕ Support my work with PayPal: paypal.me/lukeranieri And if you like, do consider joining this channel: kzbin.info/door/Lbiwlm3poGNh5XSVlXBkGAjoin 🏛 Latin by the Ranieri-Dowling Method: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/latin-by-the-ranieri-dowling-method-latin-summary-of-forms-of-nouns-verbs-adjectives-pronouns-audio-grammar-tables 🏺Ancient Greek by the Ranieri-Dowling Method: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/ancient-greek-by-the-ranieri-dowling-method-latin-summary-of-forms-of-nouns-verbs-adjectives-pronouns-audio-grammar-tables 🏛 Ancient Greek in Action · Free Greek Lessons: kzbin.info/aero/PLU1WuLg45SixsonRdfNNv-CPNq8xUwgam 👨‍🏫 My Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata playlist · Free Latin Lessons: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGjLlWpvbq6tpLc 🦂 ScorpioMartianus (my channel *entirely* in Latin & Ancient Greek) kzbin.info 🎙 Hundreds of hours of Latin & Greek audio: lukeranieri.com/audio 🌍 polýMATHY website: lukeranieri.com/polymathy/ 🌅 polýMATHY on Instagram: instagram.com/lukeranieri/

[@tazziiiee]

Hey dude, I am 18 years old, and I'm interested to learn Latin, cause I think it'll help me learn a lot of biological, scientific, philosophical terms very easily, plus it will help me with my English language acquisition, plus cause I love history. I am thinking of learning classical Latin. I am also learning French concurrently. I hope to learn ancient Greek, and other romance languages in the future (like Italian, Spanish, Portuguese). But when it comes to Latin I know little to almost nothing, plus I have no textbooks, or books on Latin grammar or literature. I am curious and would like to approach the language with an open mind and humility. What would u suggest me?

[@pain6424]

@@tazziiiee join his discord, they are very friendly there, and Will help you get started in latin. I Also recommend reading LLPSI

[@tazziiiee]

@@pain6424 Thanks! For llspi, should I get 'pars I:familia romana' Or 'pars I:grammatica latina'

[@pain6424]

@@tazziiiee just watch his video series where he reads out Loud, or search for pdf’s online. just make sure you don’t download them.

[@luisa.rodriguezrivera2000]

Something to think Kaeser has a close ressemblance to the title Kaiser from Germany (Deutschland).

[@ErickeTR]

If I were to call every country by its original name in a conversation, people would think I'm some kind of pretentious prick

[@user-rh1jo1yy9e]

Or Canadian.....wait a second, you already said that.

[@jangtheconqueror]

My mom and dad, native Korean speakers, always have this kind of discussion whenever they use English words. My mom is like, "It's pronounced north" and my dad is like, "We say nos in Korean, you sound stupid pronouncing it like that" lol

[@ErickeTR]

@@jangtheconqueror in portuguese, when speaking to another Portuguese speaker in casual conversations, whe don't strive that hard to pronounce foreign words correctly. Otherwise, you may sound a bit arrogant

[@AdiltonsPlaylists]

@@ErickeTR There's also a few "English-Portuguese" words like "pendrive" instead of "flashdrive". However, when some people learn English, they can get pretty annoying if you don't pronounce phonemes like "th" or the English "r" sound correctly. I had a lot of boring friends and now, because of that, I spell every English word properly to avoid being corrected, even if we're speaking Portuguese.

[@sebastiangudino9377]

@@ErickeTR Yep, that's happens also in Spanish and in Italian for what I've seen. Like if i say Washington in Spanish i MUST pronounce it like you would in Spanish "Guachinton". Otherwise it would sound overly pretentions and even worst, people might not know what I'm talking about!

[@epicurius1]

You know, technically, "Caesar" is pronounced Oct-ta-vi-an.

[@phildavenport4150]

Oh, very droll!

[@jeffa.7298]

That is incorrect. It's pronounced Gaius Octavius. Also when someone refers to the man "Caesar" it's generally assumed they're referring to his adoptive father-Gaius Iulius Caesar.

[@justaguyfromreddit]

@@jeffa.7298 It was a joke man

[@jeffa.7298]

I was joking too. You wouldn't say Octavius but anglicized as per the video.

[@tazziiiee]

Octavian is generally referred to as "Augustus" (The revered one), a title which the Senate conferred to him in 28BCE

[@Jan_Koopman]

When I first heard the classical pronunciation of "Caesar", it finally made sense to me that the German word "Kaiser" and the Dutch word "keizer" are derived from it, brcause the pronunciations of both are very similar to the clasdical pronunciation of "Caesar"

[@vitorcaetano464]

Same for Kzar

[@Si0Ro]

*Kaiser

[@Jan_Koopman]

@@Si0Ro, danke

[@RifqiPriyo]

Ah, so that's where Indonesian _kaisar_ (emperor/empress) came from. It's pronounced as /kaisar/ (almost like _caesar_ in Classical Latin pronounciation).

[@slomo4672]

Chinese transliteration also sticks with the Latin.

[@bigbrowntau]

My mother learnt Latin from a heavily accented Scottish teacher. In Australia. Let's put it this way...her pronunciation of Latin was...unique! Thanks for the wonderful clarity of your explanation. Much appreciated.

[@manonymous4737]

Unique : oo-ni-kway

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Ahh, the classical caledonian latin. Truly a rare gem of a language

[@MrHoundDoug]

Och! Brutus! Ye no cannae be one of them fekkers!

[@nineteenfortyeight6762]

@@MrHoundDoug 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Thehermitist]

Thats amazing 😍 love it

[@bladeofcarella]

"It's LeviOsa not LevioSA"

[@domrogg4362]

😅😂👌

[@gabrielpmo]

At least Hermione had a point. Mispronouncing wizard latin can make a feather explode in your face.

[@HeroLanding]

It's Ka-E-sar, not Kaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisar.

[@lesliemccormick6527]

For the win!

[@danielantony1882]

Now that example just doesn't make sense. I heard that once and that sounded absolutely the same, even though I was Trilingual. Now that I'm learning Japanese and Pitch-accent/intonation is a thing, that shit still sounds the same and still makes no sense XD

[@rodrigodepierola]

"Challenged in Basic Erudition" is the name of my punk-ska band and "Phonotactic Limitations" was our first single.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That's rad.

[@rayres1074]

If you told me there was a math rock/post-rock band with such name and single I wouldn't doubt at all.

[@rodrigodepierola]

@@rayres1074 We're punk, we don''t care 'bout no rules, but we're ska, so we're chill about it.

[@veloboy]

I was into CBE before anyone had ever even heard of them!

[@Zestieee]

I think it would sound better the other way around. _Phonotactic Limitations_ would fit better as the band name.

[@frankpujo8073]

His ability of changing pronounciation and nailing it everytime is astonishing to me

[@Thehermitist]

Omg me too and i speak yhree languages ha

[@SF-eo6xf]

His Italian is soo good. Wonder how his German is

[@HakusW140]

As a bilingual and self proclaimed lover of correct pronunciation, thank you for this video. The delicate balance between "who cares" and professional pronunciation mixed with a bit of OCD is always fun at parties 🤣 I must commend your ability to rage-explain with the expert grace of a falling feather. I discovered your channel yesterday and am loving the content. Thank you!

[@MrRedstonefreedom]

"Rage explain with the Expert grace of a failing feather" thank you for perfectly expressing my sentimientos so I don't even have to try

[@erentoraman2663]

Imagine if people wrote like: "yeah I love the words of ગાંધી, he's so inspirational!"

[@Tuvok_Shakur]

i never really thought about that, that would be a nightmare!

[@rouxcool1227]

is that a name ?

[@alexandruianu8432]

@@rouxcool1227 It's Gandhi in Gujarati.

[@renerpho]

Oh, but "I" should be "iċ" in proper Old English. Why are you spelling it wrong?

[@phildavenport4150]

અહીં વિષય લેટિન નામો છે

[@evanfont913]

Sir you’re dangerously close to suggesting that English is not Latin and I won’t stand for it.

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

I bet he even splits his infintives!

[@mansterj]

If English is Latin then I should be able to speak, and understand Latin.

[@pequenoperezoso3743]

@@mansterj pretty sure he's joking. Don't take him seriously.

[@mansterj]

@@pequenoperezoso3743 I was making a joke as well.

[@pequenoperezoso3743]

@@mansterj cool

[@Wonderwall627]

Sometimes I stumble on people in YT algorithms that are so far above me in some very specific specialty I just stop in awe. Also I'm sad I haven't found you previously in my random linguistic wormholes.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That's very kind. I'm just an enthusiast.

[@maximgwiazda344]

You made me realize that all my life I was pronouncing consonants wrong when speaking English. I never used any aspiration, that's why I sounded off. On the other hand, it's interesting that as a native Polish language speaker I have no problem whatsoever with pronouncing classical latin form of Caesar or Cicero.

[@francisdec1615]

I have easier to pronounce classical Latin than English as well, although my language Swedish theoretically is much closer to English. English has a distorted phonology and unlike French not even pronunciation rules of any kind. Even that British history professor Mary Beard speaks Latin with a heavy English accent.

[@MrHoundDoug]

That is unpossible! No matter how hard I try I cannot pronounce a k without aspiration. What is this dark magic used to produce unpronounceable sounds?!?

[@nicosmind3]

I'm a native English speaker, but it was funny for me to listen to this as he kept saying "in English" yet pronounced every sound different to how I do it

[@nicosmind3]

@@MrHoundDoug I don't have a single aspersion myself and I'm a native speaker

[@comradewindowsill4253]

@@MrHoundDoug well, you can, but only when it's not the first sound in a word. here's something to try; say 'skid', then 'kid. with a bit of repetition, careful listening, and maybe a hand in front of your mouth to feel the puff of air, you'll be able to isolate the unaspirated 'k' in 'skid', and how it sounds (and feels) different to pronounce. you can also do this for spin/pin and stone/tone. It takes a bit of practice to hear the differences in sounds that your language doesn't distinguish between, but it is possible!

[@bernhartschmieder9401]

This sounds absolutely true when you remember the german word "Kaiser" and begin to imagine why it exists.

[@pile333]

Or (Cae) - Tsar.

[@bernhartschmieder9401]

@@pile333 Amazing, thank you for this.

[@mrhenk007]

Keizer in dutch (for emperor)

[@landoonline6393]

Or 'Kejser' (with J = Y) in Scandinavian languages, derived from the German word.

[@filippomonaco2303]

Also the Russian zar comes from caesar

[@nammcspazz8674]

You could have just said “I sided with the NCR” and left it there

[@sxweetlollipop]

I've been scrolling looking for this comment

[@user-rh4fc2dg8e]

Nice

[@Edo_Ginting]

That's a weird way of saying kill Edward and work with Lanius

[@CherryMosley]

Ave, true to Caesar.

[@The-Spanish-Inquisition490]

New Vegas "kaiser" (kai-sar) was a joke speed around the office made and some how found its way in game. See kaiser was a German emperor not Latin.

[@danielbaboiu2288]

This reminds me about a part in "The Name of the Rose" (Umberto Eco), where a monk traveling through Europe gets to an Italian monastery and tries to tell them something about William of Occam. It was customary at the time to translate names in local equivalents. But because he traveled through many countries, he mixes the names: "Wilhelm... aaa... Guillaume... ah! Guglielmo!"

[@MikeHalk100]

Was that in the film, or just the novel?

[@ageiron]

This video was soooooooo satisfying. Everything he says is absolutely correct, and he pronounces all the non-English sounds perfectly (I'm a native Castilian Spanish with knowledge of Latin and Ancient Greek).

[@elvancor]

It still blows my mind that the german "Kaiser", which I once thought was a comically bastardized version of "Caesar", is actually close to the original pronunciation - while "Caesar" on the otherhand is pronounced "Tseh-za" by germans.

[@PrutteHans]

Same exact thing in danish. The danish word for emperor "Kejser" is also closer pronunciation-wise to the original Latin way, while, like german, Ceasar is like the german way. Funny how that happens.

[@chibiromano5631]

It's not actually. The Russian and Spanish are.. Que-Tzar/ Seh-Zaar. // Hu- Li- OH Seh- Zar . I don't were hey got German is closest. The 's' in German is like Z and the R would be dropped because the r is used for Reich, so the actual real German word was Kai-za-reich, and that's way too germanic to be Cesar at this time period. It probably would have been close in the 2nd century during the Germanic invasion, but not when Cesar was alive. The Helenic and Iberian prounciation were more closer to Cesars latin when he was alive.

[@jibbdaorange3831]

@@chibiromano5631 He didn't say "closest" only that it's closer than the english pronunciation

[@kieferngruen]

@@chibiromano5631 he didn't say German is closest, he said that it is close. And that is absolutely true. The Latin pronunciation sounds almost exactly like the German word Kaiser = emperor. The s in German is not necessarily like Z, there is a voiced and a voiceless s in German. It also depends where in Germany you are from. In the south west for example the Z sound doesn't exist at all. S is never voiced there. Also the R is not necessarily dropped. The word Kaiserreich you mentioned means empire not emperor.

[@user-nc6td8ox1t]

@@chibiromano5631 I don't know where you got that "Que-Tzar" thing from, but in Russian there is either Kesar' (used only in the Bible), Tse-Zar' (used in relation to roman emperors), or a completely bastartized version Tzar'.

[@thetachyon456]

This debate is still raging on in the Fallout community

[@megakillerx]

The Caesar has marked you for death, and the legion obeys. *READY YOURSELF FOR BATTLE!*

[@Evilanious]

As I recall, in fallout:NV, the legion are a bunch of pretentious genocidal Rome cosplayers. They pronounce it the way which is closer to Latin whereas most of their enemies or those who are indifferent to them tend to stick to the normal English pronunciation. The fact that different people and factions in the game have different pronunciations is part of its worldbuilding. Arguing over which of the pronunciations is better seems a bit confused.

[@Bluesonofman]

@@megakillerx Ad Victorim! The New American Republic will fly the 25 star banner west and add another 35 stars to it after crushing the bear and bull!

[@vizzy61]

@Evilanious profligate.

[@Kevin_Morales_Tube]

*sits down on hood of wrecked car while drinking Sunset Sarsaparilla waiting for NCR and Legion soldiers to fight. “Big Iron” playing full blast on old radio* Go on, then…

[@yilezhang1433]

Actually the Chinese name for Caesar spells like "Kai Sa", which also reflects the Latin pronunciation of Caesar. Thanks for making this video to explain the differences in pronunciation! Very professional, helpful and informative!

[@enamishalive]

but 普通话（英文叫啥来着的?） aspirates the k, i think, 反正我是那么说的

[@enamishalive]

also： 开撒儿 (

[@ericpalacios920]

Funnily enough, the classical Latin pronunciation of Caesar sounds quite similar to how native Spanish speakers pronounce "Kaiser" (such as in "Kaiser Permanente"). So somehow, us trying to pronounce German brought us closer to the original Latin!

[@randomdude2026]

Actually German pronouciation of words IS pretty similiar to Classical Latin. It is so similiar in fact that in school, when Germans learn Latin (you only learn Classical Latin in Germany), the teachers say "sprich das Wort einfach, wie es da steht" (just speak/pronounce the word as it is written). There are a few differences ofcourse, but generally speaking a German has not many problems learning the Classical pronounciation.

[@Sirie7206]

We don’t actually. We pronounce it exactly the same as in Latin. We don’t “I” our E’s.

[@outoforder8791]

This man is ranting. Venting. He's absolutely infuriated. Yet, this is one of the most relaxing videos I've seen this week. Very calming.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks

[@dasarcanaeum]

Yep insane, he completely freaked out and almost destroyed the arpartment xD ... well, for his scale ^^

[@reahthorolund8373]

Even the thumbnail, you can tell he's about to wrap his hands around your neck in sheer rage, but ultimately give up as his hands reach you, then go drink a coffee while slurping menacingly

[@GB-nu6ow]

Absolutely agree 👍👍

[@vt2788]

Haha 😂

[@richtofen40]

As Roman larpers in the mojave desert would say: "True to Caesar!"

[@phoneticjomama]

“Ave, true to Caesar”

[@kajtekii4666]

Ave. True to Caesar!

[@happyslapsgiving5421]

Did... did they survive?

[@wood7395]

Ave, True to Caesar!

[@CarrotM15]

PROFLIGATE

[@miceliusbeverus6447]

Funnily enough, in Polish you say not "Milan", but "Mediolan" , so it seems the more classical version was preserved there 😋

[@askarufus7939]

Yes and Naples is Neapol. There was a funny situation when I was in Italy and the road signs were all saying Napoli so my polish brain got confused and somehow the polish "Neapol" and italian "Napoli" merged into "Napoleon" 😂

[@CloudslnMyCoffee]

@@askarufus7939 my english brain also does this

[@peterbruells28]

Also Kolonia for Colgne (the city) - way closer to the original Latin than the modern German “Köln”.

[@riversideview1801]

I love how even though this was a rant, you took us on a history journey as to how different countries and their languages say the names. I definitely learnt something new about how the name's pronounced. Thanks you.

[@SirAnngus]

Quick fun fact. In polish language Milan is called Mediolan. Till now I didn't know that it dereived straight from Latin. 😮

@Carlo Carugati It's Włosi, not Volsci (where did this come from btw)? It doesn't refer to the original name of the region (Italia), but to the name of an ancient tribe that used to live nearby (Volcae).

[@user-et8vm9cc3t]

That's interesting. I wonder though why in German it's "Mailand". Where that "ai" diphthong comes from, I don't have a clue.

[@BurnBird1]

@ The name doesn't come from the Volcae, but is a loan from Germanic *walhaz.

[@hilariousbenjamin5614]

@ The Volsci were another tribe living in Italy in ancient times, but they were Italics, while the Volcae were Celts. I guess since the Italian name for the Volcae is Volci, it's quite easy to confuse the two, I most certainly did 🤣 (I had to check on Wikipedia oops)

[@VojtaJavora]

@@user-et8vm9cc3t and we Czechs stole the word and use it as "a lot of money"

[@viking3744344]

Such a nerd video. Absolutely like it.

[@s3rs312]

Nerds of the world, UNITE!

[@tazziiiee]

Is that Schopenhauer in ur display pic?

[@viking3744344]

@@tazziiiee Yes indeed.

[@teodorocuervo2291]

exactly my kind of video

[@HeWhoHungers]

Sometimes you've got to out-nerd the nerds.

[@simonregan471]

It's interesting to see how different languages have ended up with different pronunciations and thus transcriptions of the name - Caesar, Cesar, Cesare, Kaiser, Kaísaras, Keyser, Sezar, Czar/Tsar

[@rcl5555]

BTW "czar/tsar" is a colloquial pronunciation, when Russian tsars were addressed in high style, the full form "tsesar" (much closer to Caesar) was used. Also, Russian Bible offers yet another rendition of the word - "kyesar", which is distinctly biblical and was not applied to Russian tsars.

[@geoffgjof]

Such a great video discussion of the nuances of different sounds. Interesting that the German word Kaiser is kind of similar to the ancient Greek pronunciation. Obviously there are a lot of subtle differences, but I am continually surprised at the little bits of German that connect to Latin and French.

[@thegoodlydragon7452]

It's like insisting that everyone call Paris pah-ree, even when speaking English, when in reality even French speakers will call it Paris (with the S pronounced) if they're speaking English. Time to go have some Kwaa-son, hon hon hon.

[@LAMarshall]

"Kwáson" /ˈkwä.sɒn/ is the standard British pronunciation. If you say "cruhsónt" /kɹəˈsɑːnt/ to a Brit, they're gonna cringe out their spines! XD

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

If someone tries that, just point to something ridiculous, say Copenhagen. If they say 'Pah-ree', then they should absolutely say 'Kir-behn-haun'.

[@k-techpl7222]

Another example would be insisting people who are not Polish call 'Warsaw' with how it's called in Polish, that being 'Varshava'.

[@b43xoit]

And if you are in Italy, I guess you have to call it Parigi.

[@kirstenmuller4536]

I've never hear a native French speaker pronounce the "s" in "Paris", but I'm still new to French, so I could be wrong. I still agree, though, that insisting on a more French-like pronunciation is pointless when speaking English.

[@coreymoore1443]

Linguistics major weighing in: yes, thank Og that someone else gets it! Pronunciations change as they are adapted to fit into a new language. What the pedants never remember is that it isn’t just names; it’s *all words.* Do you pronounce “the” as it was in Old English? Do you pronounce “ebony” as it was in ancient Nubian or Egyptian or whatever? And Hebraic names like Michael and Isaac, I bet you preserve the 1st-century Semitic pronunciation there, too, right? And loan words like mozzarella, chocolate, taco, and avocado? If the nitpickers are going to put their collective foot down on originalist pronunciation, man, they have a lot of work to do.

[@Glossologia]

When I hear one of these people correctly pronounce 'atlatl' as though it were nahuatl, I will admit defeat :P

[@JormundFenris]

The was just "the" in old english. the whole "ye"-thing is a myth. Unless you talk about something else, in that case: SCREW YOU I'M GOING HOME.

[@coreymoore1443]

@@JormundFenris Yes, the "ye" was an orthographic approximation for the thorn character or whatever. I know it wasn't actually pronounced /ji/, but I also doubt that it sounded exactly the way "the" does today. The vowel particularly would have drifted a bit.

[@SailorYuki]

Let them have a go at smorgasbord.

[@MrAranton]

@@SailorYuki Or Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmützenschirmpolitur.

[@kevinjheath]

I love you for this! It has been a pet peeve of mine when corrected continually when I too know DAMN WELL what the original pronunciation was. You Rock!

[@simply-anonymous]

I didn't know that Caesar was truly announced like that. That's the version they use in the Fallout series, and I always thought it was intentionally mispronounced

[@808souljahxl5]

But when you pronounce it "Che-zar" (ecc. Latin), you inflict holy damage on your haters.

[@Rain322-]

Ave true to cheez its

[@centralintelligenceagency9003]

And also on Jojo fans who get Battle Tendency flashbacks.

[@lorenzomonti1190]

This video is basically a rant to “IT’S VENEZIA! NOT VENICE!”

[@MasonGreenWeed]

You know Paris, France? In English they pronounce it "Pari-IS", but everyone else pronounces it as the French do, without the S. But with Venezia, everybody pronounces it the English way, "Ven-ICE". There's "The Merchant of Venice", "Death in Venice"... WHY, though? Why isn't the title "The Merchant of Venezia"? Are you shitting me? This takes place in Italy, so use the Italian name, dammit! That shit pisses me off! Bunch of dumbasses!

[@tonydai782]

@@MasonGreenWeed I mean, The Merchant of Venice was written by an English guy for an English audience, so I doubt that anybody would've cared.

[@katiahrvth8483]

Giacchio has entered the chat

[@HBon111]

I thought the rant was: "Call it whatever you want you pedantic twit, nobody cares."

[@michele3900]

@@MasonGreenWeed Not everyone pronounces it like in French, in italian it's Parigi for example.

[@rosaliedc]

Thank you for this. I'm Spanish and I recently started studying Latin just for fun. I started with my old high school textbook and watched some videos on pronunciation. I was really confused when I found people on KZbin pronouncing Caesar as "Kaiser" as in German. I also found videos that said the "r" was just strong or just soft, and I was pretty sure that wasn't the case. I'm glad I found your video on pronunciation of the Latin "r" as well, as I was getting very confused between the KZbin videos and my high school memories of Latin. I'm starting to think that I can study intuitively using my own language as a reference.

[@zilasgregersen2956]

This was soooo satisfying to watch. You let them HAVE it. I love your videos!

[@thadj2280]

The Balls it takes to think you of all people would make such a linguistical mistake is staggering lol xD

[@motenai9496]

I’d rather say ingenuity and pedantry. At least those guys will think twice before showing their " " knowledge "".

[@MegaUMU]

*dont tell the other germanic language speakers (germans dutch scandinavians)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

haha yeah it cracks me up

[@francisdec1615]

He was actually wrong about the [w] sound in Germanic too, since it existed in German even in the late middle ages and still exists in rural places in Sweden:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_High_German#Phonology But most of his content is brilliant.

[@zervalu6313]

My native language is German. My major in college was linguistics. I find it really impressive and fascinating how you seem absolutely comfortable producing and switching between all these various sounds. Pronouncing a T or K or P without aspiration or, since we are on this subject, pronouncing initial vowels without a glottal stop is just completely beyond me and, to me, borders on witchcraft.

[@empyrionin]

Practice. It goes a long way. You don't need much really!

[@mist9798]

For me (Polish native speaker) pronouncing the voiceless stops in English *with* aspiration felt weird and I struggled to do it consistently and in the right places for quite a long time so it's two sides of the same coin. For me it was also pronouncing "n" and "l" before "ee" without palatalising them. But still, the thing is practice, you'll learn it eventually

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha it's taken years of practice

[@justinh6651]

Language is cool Nuff said

[@MrLoknar]

How is it physically possible to pronounce an initial vowel without a glottal stop?

[@frankgrootveld7232]

I love you man, I feel like this so often when other people talk about things; we just like study, learning & thinking.

[@therese2301]

It’s taken me years as a native English speaker learning Spanish and now Romanian, to learn how to roll my ‘R’s with any consistency. Quite literally my facial muscles were unable to make the proper sounds, so when you mentioned the ‘R’ in Caesar, I felt that one 😂

[@nikodemm.6551]

Fun fact: Milan in my native Polish language is still Mediolan ;)

[@Tommi414]

It’d be interesting to now how it became Milano in Italian. Luke could maybe do a video about this sort of stuff?

[@Hounker]

@@Tommi414 Yeah I wonder why polish language has Latin names for some places. Another example that comes to mind is region of Savoy. In Italian you call it Savoia, in polish it's Sabaudia and in Latin it's Sapaudia. It's strange how polish just stuck to the older names

[@Vengir]

@@Hounker I guess they were brought by Latin-speaking scholars in the Middle Ages and stuck around.

[@leojlg9147]

@@Hounker fun fact: in Italian “Savoia” when used as an adjective can become “sabaudo/sabauda” like in “bandiera sabauda”, “Savoy flag” in English.

[@nikodemm.6551]

@@Hounker or region of Rome is called Lacjum (Latsyum) - Lazio, Munich is Monachium, Naples - Neapol.. but Italy is not Italia or something like this, it is Włochy 😅 (from a name of one of the tribes)

[@PhilipLeFou]

I was watching a video of you on another channel speaking Latin to a Romanian. I don’t speak either, but for some reason I could, with hearing you and reading the text, understand what you where trying to have the other person guess. It was such a crazy feeling. It felt like immersion. How does the brain do that ? It was glorious

[@empyrionin]

He's a great teacher, and knows how to emphasize certain words or even use some words and word order that makes it easier for native romance speakers to understand. Probably since he also speaks romance languages himself. Great guy, really!

[@andrej_urod_iljic]

THIS IS PURE BULLCRAP AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT :(

[@TheHopperUK]

@@andrej_urod_iljic Everyone apparently doesn't know it? can you expand on this? I don't know much about Romanian at all.

[@andrej_urod_iljic]

@@TheHopperUK LOL I'M JUST BEING EDGY AND SHIT I ALSO DIDN'T MEAN THE LANGUAGE PART BUT MORE THE DESCRIPTION OF THE EXPERIENCE

[@TheHopperUK]

@@andrej_urod_iljic Okay, well, you have a good day then.:)

[@cesarxmbert]

I honestly clicked on this video to learn how my name is pronounced in other languages. before I clicked on it I expected to click off in a matter of seconds, but the way you were explaining things had me hooked up... last thing I knew, I watched the entire video lol great video.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks! That’s very kind

[@annaclarafigueiredolima4210]

Thank you so much for existing! Great rant, pretty educational

[@Say_Tin]

*If you really want to use the classical pronunciation, you would say, "KICK-ero", and "KAI-sar". Huehuhuhuhuhuho!*

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

🤓

[@nicmagtaan1132]

kick-ero also knows as kick the horny

[@happyslapsgiving5421]

Funniest thing... in (relatively) modern Roman dialect, if you pronounce it "kick-ero" (or, often, "kick-erone"... the "one" stands for "big") it means "ass". :D

[@vanguelisk]

In modern greek it is pronounced Kikéron and Késar,Virgílios, Orátios. Κικέρων,Καίσαρας, Βιργίλιος,Οράτιος

[@aldebaran2643]

@@vanguelisk err, is the Greek name for Caesar written correctly? That feels off...

[@bigtimes1]

I told people this so many damn times. Thank you!

[@dondraper3871]

I feel like I just watched a 8mn video of Yes minister where Bernard corrects Jim Hacker after the latter tried showing off his LSE-trained Latin pronounciation of Caesar... AND I LOVED IT

[@pablodescamisado]

We in one language have both pronunciations of < C > in this name: [k] and [ts] but these words mean different things. tsezar - is the name of Julius Caesar and in Salad. In other uses, it is [k]: emperor title / german monarch / and C-section.

[@billyswift1745]

When I clicked on this video all I could think about was Fallout New Vegas and how the pronounciation of Caesar is used to show how much of a LARPer Edward Sallow (Caesar) is, refusing to pronounce it normally in English

[@KingDomIV]

Until now i thought the idea was that they were so far removed from education and civilisation that they simply read it wrong after finding some book in some ghoul infested school and having no frame of reference or teacher to correct them didnt realise its true pronunciation. Having learned something new today i am so glad that the joke is even better and more layered and not an ignorant mistake by the developers since its such a good game and it so deserves to be loved. Just shows who does fallout best, amirite? Yes, the people that originally created and lovingly nurtured the fallout franchise, not some ugly, exploitative, multinational corporation with no love or respect for gamers, their fans, source materials or anything that isnt money, basically. Oh, im nerd-ranting and this is old and tired, isnt it? Sorry!

[@CornCarson]

@@KingDomIV 4's gunplay was better, 3 was less buggy, and 76 has multiplayer options for people who want it. new vegas was an unfinished mess not just because bethesda gave obsidian such a bad time limit, but because obsidian don't know how to coordinate a team to make a concise or mechanically solid 3D game. Fallout 1 & 2 were the best in the series and the only thing you should bother arguing back at me is whether or not Van Burin (or however it is spelled lol) would have been EVEN BETTER than 1 & 2

[@KingDomIV]

@@CornCarson erm... OK but I don't wanna.

[@CornCarson]

@@KingDomIV Yeah buddy that's what I thought. Now go on your merry way, having a different opinion which with I disagree aggressively but still respect as we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[@KingDomIV]

@@CornCarson K. Thnx. Bye. (Sorry but I can't do commenting on the internet, I don't enjoy it the way everyone else seems to and I shouldn't have left that last comment or the one before it, I'm an idiot, sorry).

[@anthonyj.manttan9986]

If someone said to me "Kaiser" without the Gaius Iūlius part I'd immediately think of Wilhelm II. Obsession with "correct" pronunciation also poses the question, should we say Germania instead of Germany? No, because it's Deutschland.

[@bobbwc7011]

Seriously? The first fucking Kaiser that comes to your mind is that idiot Wilhelm II. and not ANY of the great Kaiser we had? For example: Friedrich II., ein Staufer, genannt "stupor mundi": das Staunen der Welt. Oder Otto höchstselbst, ein Liudolfinger, der aus Heinrichs "deutschem Königreich" das Heilige Römische Reich Deutscher Nation formte.

[@anthonyj.manttan9986]

@@bobbwc7011 Pardon me. Have you ever considered that perhaps there's no need to be rude. My brother has an interest in modern history and in particular The Great War, that's why Wilhelm II comes to mind primarily for me personally, a piece of context I feel I shouldn't have to explain were folk to mind their manners. Good day to you sir.

[@katherinespezia4609]

@@bobbwc7011 Wilhelm is the only German monarch most English speakers have ever heard of.

[@TangoKilo-fp8uu]

@@anthonyj.manttan9986 Excellent rebuke.

[@omega1231]

Well, also because Germania was practically just anything north of the Rhine, Germania was much larger and has barely anything to do with the English name Germany. It's actually a bit of a gripe i have with English, just why? It's the only language that confuses Germanic with Deutsch, and i've had the unfortunate pleasure of encountering several people that legitmately thought that German and Germanic are interchangeable, for no other reason than English speakers calling Deutsch German lol Life's hard

[@raggersragnarsson6255]

I came here from the game Fallout New Vegas due to the in game pronunciation of Caesar and Kaiser as it always grated on me as a non US American. This is a splendid explanation of its latin origin and how language is used word for word through time and across the world. This has brought me back to the idea of me studying another language at an older age once again as it is fascinating.

[@allemenozzi]

You positively rock!!!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Grazie!

[@dexterwolf4027]

You are literally the reason why I can love Latin. After years of these snobbish Latin teachers and students in school that seem to care more about showing how "smart" they are, it makes it so hard to stay motivated. Thank you so much!

[@isoldam]

The moral to this story is: Don't try to correct Luke on pronunciation unless you enjoy feeling like a fool.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

😂

[@weavehole]

Or is it pronounciation? 😉

[@vedranb87]

@@weavehole Pro Nuns!

[@whohan779]

@@vedranb87 Those weird and frequent spelling (and also pronunciation) exceptions bug me to heck in English. I mean why would you write it that way when you literally have the words pronoun and pronounce both written with 'ou'? I know it's probably because Arkan saw what Arkan sas, but he hasn't sought to sue for the sowing of saws (if you get the joke). 🤣

[@korpen2858]

@@weavehole pro-noun-citation 😎

[@ZDVictim]

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this. You've a rock solid point and you illustrate it well. Great watch.

[@bogdannenadic5712]

First time seeing your channel. Obviously this comment is late. I'm Serbian but i adore languages, especially Latin. You make learning languages fun. You've earned a new subscriber. Thank you for respecting languages and sharing your amazing knowledge. Sending love from Novi Sad!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks!

[@joshuacryst2810]

Thanks for clarifying something that's confused me since college Latin, 50 years ago. Your videos are excellent, BTW.

[@nicolaselsishans5665]

One of the kindest and most balanced "rants" I've ever heard. Thank you for the message.............

[@SimplyRevolting]

Wonderful! That perfect balance between the technical and pedantic correctness and common sense (a misnomer). Together with the explanation of the historical progression and the other language's/culture's influence in the pronunciation's evolution into the modern. And as someone else commented - Very relaxing!...

[@exsimon]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This video seriously needed to be released on the net.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I’m glad you think so too.

[@altralinguamusica]

One word: YES! You tell ‘em, Luke!

[@altralinguamusica]

This is a huge pet peeve of mine, too. Even though I can switch between a Greek and English accent pretty easily, doing it for just one damn word or name when I can just keep using my native English phonological habits is just a big effort! I also end up not being able to switch back until after the first syllable of the following word (which happens a lot when I’m teaching Greek haha)

[@Tanksause]

@@altralinguamusica YES!!! but for me in other languages. especially Spanish which is so close to English

[@thinking-ape6483]

I remember many moons ago when I first learnt about how C was a velar plosive in Classical Latin, that languages such as German and Dutch preserved this sound; Kaiser, keizer; caseus, Käse, kaas....because such words were amongst the earliest of borrowings from Latin.

[@urmumla]

I am first time here. Your voice is so damn relaxing I nearly fall asleep by hearing you voice.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks

[@CellarRoot]

Thanks for this! this rant is actually a most clear short nugget of wisdom or explanation explanation of a confusing mix of mostly impenetrable linguistics, aka philology, type texts! I wanted you to know you made a real learning resource just with this video

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks Evan! That’s really nice of you. I also have many more technical but fairly accessible linguistic videos on this channel if you’re interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ2wYqCja5uMhtk kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGm0qH5uedSlppI

[@evan-moore22]

Are these people also mad that we say Jesus instead of Yeshua? My name is Evan. Do they think I pronounce my own name wrong because it isn't Yehohanan? Do they want me to spell it in Hebrew as well? Names evolve. It's okay.

[@Ithirahad]

First one yes, second one no because YOUR name was originally "Evan" even if the name came from something else. Along the same lines, someone in modern times with the name "Caesar" pronounced "seezer" or "sayzar" or whatever might be treated differently from, say, Iulius Caesar, because whoever named them intended it to be pronounced the modern way even if they see that as a butchered reference...

[@samyrandome425]

Thank you. Language evolves period.

[@SonofSethoitae]

@@Ithirahad Why would you be mad about that? It's a perfectly logical rendering of the Greek Ιησούς. And it's useful for differentiating Jesus from Joshua son of Nun in common parlance

[@DavidAmster]

I totally agree. I have a friend who always says “fess” for Fez, when he’s speaking English, based on the Arabic pronunciation…I live there, but would never pronounce it that way when I’m speaking English. But at least he doesn’t criticize me when I say Fez. The person who complained about your English pronunciation of Caesar and Cicero is just ill-informed/confused/etc :)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Indeed, David!

[@marcusargentium2153]

Really interesting! Funnily enough, when trieng to pronounce caesar and cicero with a thick dutch accent resulting into kaisar and kikero, they sound quite similar. I guess the Dutch and English language just got too intertwined as we share quite a lot of words, and ended up with the english pronounciation. Thanks for the nice video! :)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for the nice comment

[@louiserosefield38]

I pronounce it in classical Latin as i am learning that module for the OU. i do enjoy your videos

[@FM-kl7oc]

In Norwegian, the word for "emperor" is "keiser", and pronounced very similar to how you pronouced Ceasar. Edit: I just checked the Norwegian Wikipedia article for keiser, and it says: The word «keiser» is derived from the German word Kaiser, which in turn is derived from Cæsar, which in classical latin was pronounced similiar to «kaisar». The more you know.

[@yourmum69_420]

same in German and Dutch and... many languages actually

[@Rationalific]

The Russian word "Tsar" - also (especially previously) spelled "Czar" in English - is also ultimately derived from Caesar.

[@jonathanrancudo5423]

As linguist teaching French to English speakers, I have the opposite problem that is just as frustrating. My students regularly pronounce cognates in French as they are pronounced in English: instead of "histoire" they say "historie", "victoire" is "victorie", and they pronounce ALL the S's. They're like "well isn't it the same word?" ........ Like ok you wanna speak Old French then we'll learn Old French, see how you like that.

[@culturecanvas777]

🤣🤣🤣

[@empyrionin]

Douce damme jolie... Qu'il n'a de riens envie Fors d'estre en vo baillie; Et se ne li ottrie Vos cuers nul aligement

[@camiloberaun8931]

@@empyrionin Is that poem old French?

[@Wazkaty]

@@empyrionin C'est de qui? J'aime beaucoup les poésies écrites dans un français ancien !

[@Wazkaty]

@@empyrionin Fun fact : j'ai découvert qu'en anglais l'ancien français peut se dire "francien" comme fr et ancien, la beauté de la langue !

[@deepinthewasatch66]

Great discussion! My Latin teachers in high school and college used the church Latin pronunciation, so I still read it mentally as "chay-sar".

[@addie.86]

Seeing this video on Cesar, I was wondering if and how familiar you were with the French comic book series Astérix ? There’s a ton of word play with Latin (written or spoken by characters) and Ancient Rome during the era of Julius Cesar. It would be interesting to see a video on that! If you haven’t I totally recommend reading it specially in the original French since I’m not sure the quality of the English translation and a lot might have been lost in translation. Great channel and content by the way 👍🏻

[@simonengland6448]

Pardon my late reply. The English version no doubt misses a few jokes. But I can guarantee it also adds some. I don't speak French, but my French friends assure me some of the English names are funnier and more appropriate, Getafix over Panoramix for example. I do remember laughing out loud at the German version in the 70s, so perhaps each iteration brings something. I would just say that the people who translated it into English were very highly educated, knowledgeable and had a wicked sense of humour. I can still find hilarious things in the text I've missed, even after 50 years of reading them. All the Latin I ever mastered was inspired by Asterix.

[@addie.86]

@@simonengland6448 no problem! well I'm glad the English translation is of great quality! yes the whole Asterix series still holds up to this day, which is a testament to the genius of its two creators. I'll look forward to your videos if you do it on this subject. There's a number of other Ancient Roman inspired bande dessinées I'd also recommend, in particular Murena which is set during Emperor Nero, it's more mature and adult though with not much latin but it's also a high quality series, unfortunately I'm not sure there's an English translation of it

[@simonengland6448]

@@addie.86 thanks for the suggestion. There is indeed an English version of Murena. I shall be ordering them soon.

[@MrMattpnk]

Oh English and its struggle with phonetic. I really appreciate being a native romance language speaker. However you're right, if you are speaking in English it's normal and perfectly fine to pronounce those words in English.

[@felixweinlinger]

0:26 holy shit now I know why we called our monarchs Kaiser here in Austria, I feel pretty stupid now for not knowing it all these years

[@VHOS-db1td]

Genau!

[@maximus7288]

Well, you have to remember from your history classes that the Holy Roman Empire included Austria (actually Vienna was its capital in 1497) , so all these terms like Kaiser came from titles and names in the classic Roman Empire that they were trying to imitate/perpetuate

[@felixweinlinger]

@@maximus7288 yeah I know that I just didn't know (or I just forgot) that the word Kaiser was directly lifted from classical latin

[@Morpheux1]

Also the reason why the Russian Rulers were Tsars (Czar).

[@savioblanc]

Dude.. cmon man 😑.. I'm glad to know that you did learn something though

[@Bludgeta9001]

Caesars Legion: "Ave, True to Kai Ser Joseph Joestar: "Caesarino"

[@cjmvejby]

I often find myself knowing more than my peers on language issues thus it is refreshing and pleasantly humbling to be reminded of the Dunning-Kruger effect when one runs across someone like you that is vastly superior in knowledge and execution. My hat off and a deep courtesy to you my good sir.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s very flattering to say. I’m also glad when I get the chance to learn from others

[@ultimecia102]

You have a delightful way of speaking. It's clear that you have worked hard to achieve it.

[@jonhansen679]

I know it defeats the purpose of this video but now im just gonna tell people it was pronounced Guisar XD

[@truAdDikT]

Winged Guisar, Polska strong!

[@pingu7471]

Zsar

[@vacri54]

So there's this Geezer, right?

[@phildavenport4150]

German had/has Kaiser as an approximation. I'd like Polymath's take on how it arrived there, whether it was always spelled that way in German, and how it was pronounced in German over the years. I don't trust the English to stay close to what they read in the first instance - and, of course, it REALLY DOESN'T MATTER, does it?

[@GumSkyloard]

Geyser?

[@iris7867]

Okay! I'm a fan!!!!!!!!! Thank you for making this rant!

[@spudhead169]

That was the calmest rant I've ever heard.

[@Hadrianus01]

British accent on point 👌

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

🇬🇧 ♥️

[@Meevious]

Ah yes, the accent that the British call "the British accent".

[@scollyer.tuition]

To be honest, to my native Brit ear, it sounded more like an attempt at a circa-1935 Transatlantic Accent.

[@OHYS]

Posh southern English accent

[@scollyer.tuition]

@@Meevious Yes, the Scots may have something to say about that - and they sure are a contentious people!

[@darkphilosopher8726]

I am not super interested in language but watching something get explained to death to show people who think they are right because they don't go into depth on the issue was just so emotionally satisfying. This is like a masterclass in how to respond to uneducated critics.

[@hadrienlart]

We need more content like that and more US people to be that brilliant, curious, patient and entertaining. Immediate subscription.

[@axiomist4488]

Man, you are the best. No exaggeration. After watching the first video (the Monty Python one), I subscribed. I loved this one too; it clears up for me why I should use the American pronunciations. Thanks a million !

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks! Welcome. A future video will address your concern about the notion of multiple Latins

[@Jan-ss9tm]

Haha, love this :) I just learned from you that the Latin way of pronouncing Caesar is closer to Keizer (Emperor in Dutch) than the way we pronounce Ceasar, of which the word is derived from obviously.

[@hasj]

Goeiemorgen Jan

[@TheMatias2]

Yeah same in Hebrew, Keizar

[@NIKSEEN]

I totally agree. I used to be quite pedantic when it came to the original names of Roman authors but then one day I realised that my own name, "Niklas", will almost never be pronounced correctly by native English speakers and that it's waay easier to just call me "Nick" or "Nicholas" and that that is totally fine!

[@jonathanwalls6760]

I love the way you explained this lol, very good points. I happen to use a lot of foreign words in the way they'd be pronounced in the original languages, but I make a point not to do it with ones where the phonological differences are so extreme as to make them unintelligible. For instance I don't mind saying things like Milano in English, but for my native city I always say Florence because I find Firenze is so far removed from the English word that it becomes prohibitive to understanding. Or to your point with authors I'd happily say Boccaccio with it's Italian pronunciation, but Virgil is just Virgil. As always I'm thoroughly impressed with your dedication to detail!

[@AlexanderSargent]

I’m glad you’re out there and are a fellow appreciator of the amazing history captured in the bastardization of transnational vocabulary. The vibe these days for English speakers feels like more people want to artificially redesign our words for a variety of reasons. I’m not sure they’re aware what they’ll be scrubbing away in the process.

[@intersabellos2482]

This video had to be made. It is a service to humanity🙏🏼

[@apmoy70]

Here too it's considered pretentious to pronounce foreign words exactly as they're pronounced in their respective languages. There are a few news anchors who try to emulate foreign pronunciation and they're ridiculed

[@shaunearsom7420]

THANK YOU! I'm so glad you made this video, now I can show EVERYONE!!

[@laspilly]

This is very useful for English learners as well. Thank you.

[@Tooooooom]

I can feel the Fallout: New Vegas fans seething

[@atticusshadowmore3263]

Ave true to Caesar… but in seriousness, I am positive that the Legion thinking it was pronounced with a hard sound was meant to show just how stupid they really are. Also, all true New Vegas fans know it is pronounced Scissor

[@SimuLord]

I pronounce it according to Easy Pete's subtitles.

[@viysnjor4811]

@@atticusshadowmore3263 Actually it was because Caesar actually understood latin, and forced his legion to address him with the "proper" pronunciation, even if they still did it with the wrong sounds as described in this video. So it was an ego thing.

[@Lu-ql]

I don't get why NV fans would get triggered by this, because in the game there are people that pronounce Caesar in the proper English way. In fact, I think most people do.

[@eurodelano]

Thank you for saying this! “Phonotactic limitations.” How I love this.

[@paulstewart1557]

I DID enjoy your rant. I studied Ancient History at school and was happy to use the anglicised pronunciation. Although I confess that I did enjoy some pedants who then showed me how the name morphed into the words Kaiser and Tsar.

[@kingcrumpet]

There's something beautiful about watching someone talk about a subject with passion and complete authority.

[@VHOS-db1td]

Χαίρε Καίσαρ!!! From Kαισαρ🇬🇷 to Kaiser🇩🇪 and Tsar🇷🇺!!!

[@TheAmbivalentMan]

You're exactly right, what's 'correct' is completely relative to the exact language and moment in history. Even just withint modern English there's one generation between "May I do X" and "Can I do X". Would love to see you do a series on the International Phonetic Alphabet. It's like the periodic table of languague and I love it.

[@davidbouvier8895]

Re 'may' and 'can': a little more than 70 years ago I was sitting in my elementary school classroom in England when another kid asked the teacher, "Please miss, can I go to the toilet?". Her reply was a model of grammatical precision: "You can but you may not". Such accurate discrimination, alas, is fast fading.

[@edgriffin6732]

This is a fabulous rant, thank you