Popoff's 2 Iron Maiden Books, But Are Maiden Even NWOBHM?...Midweek Maiden.

[@monte.olson58]

Wow. Very cool discussion!

[@Matias-music-71]

good topic , enjoyable , thanks

[@beastwishes]

What a great discussion, thanks so much!

[@Lazerrus]

Maiden's twin guitar inspiration came from Thin Lizzy not Priest. Steve is a huge Lizzy & UFO fan and stated many times that his inspiration lies there. Great video gentleman and thank you. I do agree with Martin that Maiden is not prog at all but like John says, just long. Maiden doing what Maiden does........something different.

[@theironworker781]

Don’t forget wishbone ash

[@iancocks9408]

Sound so much better to be influenced by the metal legends Judas Priest

[@BillAltman]

Saw ‘‘em w Paul on Killers tour, great. I saw Bruce at Chicagofest on the Number tour, literally set up in front of gas lamps ala first album. The best gig I’ve ever seen from anyone anywhere. If you were there ya know

[@lionelraoul]

Always a pleasure to hear Martin's thoughts on anything.

[@shaunfulton7261]

Couldn't disagree more.

[@Matias-music-71]

I think Bruce's vocals alone and his style keeps them in that NWOBHM style ..,

[@Matias-music-71]

listen to Caught Somewhere In Time , if that is not NWOBHM what is ???

[@esteeb67]

Excellent topic. I am more on John's side with this. I think the first three Maiden albums are firmly entrenched in NWOBHM, but by Piece of Mind they are starting to shed those trappings. Sun and Steel and Die With Your Boots On are definitely NWOBHM style songs, but Flight of Icarus and To Tame A Land are clearly something else. I do agree that Back in The Village and Flash of the Blade contain elements of NWOBHM as do Aces High and 2 Minutes, but after that... not so much. By Somewhere In Time this is all gone. So, I guess it was a bit of a gradual shedding, though I am sure some would argue some of that style still exists today in parts of their catalog. By the way, I think the riff in 2 Minutes to Midnight has been used in some form or another by almost every NWOBHM band of that scene and even non-British metal bands (Riot). Iron Maiden, though, were the only ones that took it to another level.

[@LairoftheAlchemist]

Thanks for your comment. And yeah, the "2 Minutes" riff has been used a lot.

[@UltraPvnk]

Whoaaaaaaa!!!!

[@aaronsteelman4732]

I'd argue that Maiden is still NWOBHM through Piece of Mind. I hear elements of NWOBHM on Powerslave, but I think that they are finding their later direction on that album. There are longer, somewhat more complex songs -- not quite prog, but prog-adjacent. It seems to me that their ambition had changed with Powerslave.

[@shaunfulton7261]

Of course they are. It was a movement, not a genre. If you were part of the movement then obviously you remain a part of it forever. Popoff isn't knowledgeable enough to talk about NWOBHM.

[@aaronsteelman4732]

@@shaunfulton7261 I think Martin was actually making the point you have made, while John was arguing the opposite. That is, I think Martin was arguing that Maiden were NWOBHM after the very early period, while John was saying the opposite. My view is somewhere in between: Maiden stopped becoming obviously identifiable as NWOBHM after the second album with Bruce.

[@jimmycampbell78]

NWOBHM is not a genre, it's a 'wave' of British rock and metal bands from that certain era. You can't 'sound' NWOBHM and then not sound NWOBHM. Shaun is right, you're either identified as a NWOBHM band or not. Def Leppard are NWOBHM even though they adopted a commercial more American rock sound after their first two albums. There is a lot of variety in the bands' sounds, more so than in 'Bay Area thrash'. Saxon and Angel Witch sound different, as an example. Venom and Praying Mantis don't sound like each other at all.

[@aaronsteelman4732]

For some reason, I have never considered it that way. But it’s a useful way to think about the issue. For instance, it’s unlike, say, neo-prog from the 80s, which does kind of have an identifiable sound across bands. Also, presumably there is a reason why we don’t call it NGOBHM.

[@hanswijgergangs6636]

thanks for this complex, interesting discussion. My position would be in between. Nwobhm for me is essentially Neat Records, so fast, agressive, bit bluesy bar room rock with an attitude, exemplified by the great Raven. But from the beginning there is also the quest for more complex, layered songs (Angelwitch, Tygers of Pan Tang, Def Leppards debut). Iron Maiden was just too good for the average nwobhm band. Killers is a great, great album with great drumming, genius bass, exploding twin guitars and agressive vocals. Not progressive, but way too good for the bar room. So if you call them nwobhm, they are the giants.

[@beastwishes]

The premise of this video seems to have upset a fair amount of people who grew up in England as being part of the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal era in terms of it being a movement and period of time for people and the bands that existed during that time. Nowadays it's become popular or cool to separate and distinguish early era Iron Maiden as somehow more authentic and more raw and "real" heavy metal and then somehow treat the albums where Bruce comes in as something different. Kind of like a Ozzy/RJD split or a Bon/Brian split. And when I grew up there was a lot of Iron Maiden were great up til including or excluding Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son and then after Adrian left people loved to say that Maiden stopped being worthwhile. However now a lot of people tend to lift up the 79-81 "Dianno era" as being the real, timescale of when Iron Maiden were truly great and the Dickinson albums get kind of dismissed as Maiden losing that 'edge' or specific sound and songwriting approach after Paul leaves... Of course, I don't agree. Iron Maiden were excellent then and now and there were definitely people throughout the early 80s who loved Maiden after Paul left and Bruce won them over who were all part of the NWOBHM but outside of that, Maiden themselves have never considered themselves a NWOBHM band, the media did and the band scoffed at the label because musically and in terms of who the band as an identity and as musicians the term 'NWOBHM' means nothing to them. But for the people who grew up and listened to these bands at the time, who went to the gigs and bought the records and thats what the NWOBHM was, it has nothing to do with what kind of sound or genre of music was... I understand the premise of the discussion though: i love maiden.

[@Matias-music-71]

great comment thanks , I liken it to the whole Grunge movement/genre thing .., what really was grunge ? Was it strictly Seattle , was it a movement , was it a sound , was it a style .., it all gets wishy washy and tribal

[@beastwishes]

@@Matias-music-71 I agree, the people who lived through it treat it as their way of live whereas its come to mean more AND less at the same time to people who use it to define that heavy sound of that period, which people don't seem to appreciate, certainly the bands dont because they feel like the media just used it to lump them into something as artists, they were not part of.

[@kkchome]

A very interesting discussion with reasonably cogent arguments. Well done, lads.

[@gareththomas6496]

John you can`t leave the NWOBHM as it was a movement not a genre. There is no NWOBHM look or sound, you had bands such as Girl who were glam rock. May be you should revisit the episode you did on the NWOBHM with author John Tucker who lived it here in Britain as I did.

[@LairoftheAlchemist]

Good point.

[@Matias-music-71]

genre /movement , picking straws from a bale of hay , sorry .

[@gareththomas6496]

@@Matias-music-71 No ones picking straws from a bale of hay. I lived the NWOBHM (movement) & went to see most of the bands, unlike John & Martin. There is nothing to debate, they just don`t get it as they were not there.

[@RockaRolla6969]

Fun episode, gentleman!

[@LairoftheAlchemist]

Thank you!

[@Hecatecrossways]

I don't think that Iron Maiden left NWOBHM with Number of the Beast, with Piece of Mind they stopped being tough guy Metal, and got fanciful and artsy .

[@Matias-music-71]

Hmm , blues eh , I would argue NWOBHM started to push blues influences out ?

[@ErickNWOBHM]

Excellent discussion on an excellent topic. It goes without saying that Maiden completely had the NWOBHM sound for the first 2 albums, I would even say that NOTB had a grittiness and raw enough sound to have the NWOBHM sound. IMO, there is a little of the NWOBHM sound left in Piece of Mind, remnants if you will but after that I feel Maiden shed classic NWOBHM.

[@shaunfulton7261]

There is no NWOBHM sound. It was a movement, not a genre.

[@PaulHoulton-l8b]

@@shaunfulton7261 Totally agree, I know, I was there! Are these the blokes that include bands like Priest, Gillan & Motorhead as NWOBHM?

[@lance98541]

I grew up with NWOBHM. It died in 1982 and Maiden died along with it as far as the music movement was concerned. With Piece of Mind, they were going somewhere else. The only thing that makes Maiden NWOBHM is they will always be British.

[@shaunfulton7261]

Another stupid NWOBHM discussion by two people who don't understand what it was because they weren't there at the time. Stop talking to Popoff about NWOBHM.

[@AnalogAttack]

Exactly Shaun. You're looking at a guy who has Waysted and Fastway albums in his top 20 NWOBHM albums

[@Matias-music-71]

so unless you were at the war of 1812 , you can't teach about , talk about , discuss the war of 1812 ?? ,lol

[@shaunfulton7261]

@@Matias-music-71 Sure you can, as long as you understand the subject sufficiently. Unlike these two.

[@Matias-music-71]

@@shaunfulton7261 , right and how many books have you written ? How many metal folks have you interviewed , talked to personally , how many folks within the community have you exchanged thoughts with ?

[@shaunfulton7261]

@@Matias-music-71 To be clear, it is the NWOBHM that Martin doesn't understand sufficiently. A lot of what he thinks and says about it is incorrect.