Pressure Transducer for In-Cylinder Testing -That Works!!! Part 1

[@davesterl]

Baro pressure also affected by Altitude. These readings are at 70metres above sea level.(That bit didn't make the edit) Get the most from the Pico 2204A kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKLFg5tmgq1mjaM More on In Cylinder set up in Part 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYuYgIunbbCCgZY

[@mechanicmatt871]

Thanks for sharing this, I know it's going to really benefit a lot of us mechanics that can't justify the cost of the WPS, especially with you showing us the part number and specifications, not only that you talk us through how to customise the settings on the Pico. This is the go to video for a usable frugal in cylinder pressure test set up. Thanks Dave 👍

[@davesterl]

yeas Matt, its the only one thats any good. If i add up the price of those generics ones, I could have bought a couple of sensors that work. All in the name of science(trial and error). What do you think of the definition of the trace compared to your PVS500?

[@mechanicmatt871]

I agree, I have bought a few that have not been great. Your sensor has a better signal than the PV500, I think with the pv500 signal being in mV the waveform line becomes thicker, it can be cleaned up with a filter, but that will remove some of the waveform that I want to see. Your sensor working with a higher signal voltage won't need cleaned up the same. Its bad timing that I just got my sensor before your video came out. I would have bought the same as you are showing here. It looks Great 👍

[@davesterl]

Sorry about that Matt, but ive been researching this for a while now. Your video of the PV500 but the idea back into my head to do something about it tho. BTW i can improve on that capture(slightly) with a faster laptop and messing about with the sample rate

[@mechanicmatt871]

Dave I just tried changing the fluke from psi to kPa like you said to me and it's loads better, no need to filter now, just got to think in Bar. Thanks for letting me know

[@davesterl]

Your welcome, Matt

[@user-kl4oh2co2y]

Question: For another application I will put a pressure transducer in a T-junction like shown in 1:14. For good measurements does the screw part of the sensor have to be fully in the water? If the distance to the flowing water is too big and the sensor only measures the water that is pushed up. Is that accurate instead of measuring the flowing water through the tube? And if the distance is too big for the pressure the water does not touch the sensor you have a problem?

[@Sipho-Msayi]

Great video, I have one of the cheap 300psi transducers that works well, it reads 0.5V at 0psi and 4.5V at 300psi, Voltage below 0.5V means vacuum. Pressure (psi) = (V- 0.5)/0.01333

[@Kevin-qn7jf]

So if you're trying to view in cylinder vacuum, as his video showed, some sensors just do not measure enough of a vacuum. The first sensor he showed only went to about 2 inHg. Simply not enough when you consider all of the vital information for in cylinder needs to view a far greater amount of vacuum.

[@wolfgangsoukup3283]

Thank you Dave for sharing Can you maybe explain how to do it in Bar ?

[@juanmgomezb]

Thanks for sharing, watching your video make me see the picture about transducers more clear. Excellent

[@mikeberry304]

Great true information there Dave , quite in depth testing of so called accurate products , that could lead you up the garden path , RS components sell some decent gear great to see somebody showing real life stand alone testing of variations of pressure sensors , well done Sir

[@davesterl]

aggghhh you're a gent Mike, cheers m8

[@user-ky7ty3ie1x]

Ive got picosope what how do i connect pressure transducer to the pico

[@dpffiles]

Thx it is necessary to apply 5 volts to the sensor?

[@CarlosSilva-gc8ny]

Yes

[@russellmcallister6830]

Dave is that equation the same for the absaloute, the rs components 1. I ordered one yesterday for my wee 2204A. Thanks boss

[@davesterl]

I show the calibration equation for the absolute at 25:50

[@rondela7341]

Nice Dave. Im going to get the honeywell pressure transducer. will be using Loto OSC482 oscilloscope It has a db-15 interface to connect the tranducer no need for the 5v ref box. 😁

[@weldingjunkie]

Nice job Dave it’s nice to see some honest review. A lot of channels are showing those junk ones as a sub for wps I’m happy you showed this. I love my WPS500 but it’s great to see a real alternative. Nice job brother

[@davesterl]

yes Jay the WPS is the boy alrite but this set up - the scope and the sensor will cost around £150 all in, lets say $200

[@shariqkudcs]

No need to buy Honeywell px3 just use ACDelco 15-51342 A/C refrigerant pressure sensor. That has a range of 500psi (a/c systems run at higher PSI).

[@yachtsteve]

That was a fantastic video, I just wish I could understand what you're saying hahaha. I was ready to kind of move on to the next video and I sort of sat through the end, and I really think as good as this video was literally the last few minutes were the most important!! Thanks again Dave

[@vlstyles]

Have you been able to get this to work with the Micsig ATO1104? I wish you could make a custom probe on it. I can get it to display but I want to be able to "translate" the voltage to pressure directly

[@johnnyorr7149]

Excellent video Dave, do you think its sufficient or would a ore expensive faster transducer be of much more benefit?

[@davesterl]

There are more expensive transducers out there tho i dont think you'll improve much, over sampling in this isnt the answer either

[@johnnyorr7149]

@@davesterl Fair enough, thanks again for the video. I think I am going to have to build myself one

[@shawnkirkpatrick9379]

Thanks for the great video. I didn't quite understand the custom channel setup and how you arrived at the specific numbers you input to get your sensor to read true psi. Are those numbers specific to your altitude and barometric pressure? I would appreciate it if you could explain the math to me. Thanks again

[@ryanmason9141]

Wow! Grateful you shared this info!

[@pigeonsil240sx]

here in my country this transducer is around $100 or $80 pounds in europe.my question is what are these transducers normally found on?are these automotive use?if so i want to figure out what vehicles use them then get a used one at junkyard for $5.if this works out we can make some really good ones better then amazons cheap ones at less cost also.if you have an info let me know and ill post a video and have ou take credit for the tranducer. i inted to simply tee tranducer into compression tester as it has everything needed for installation wityh the added bonus of having a guage you could then accurtally convert the compression tester psi to what the output voltage is.i think this would be a great idea and extremely simple.

[@harryohanson]

It all have to be calculated in. Just like when you measure resistance you have to take account the resistance of the of the tester leads.

[@vlstyles]

Love the info, Dave. Is the MicSig TO series able to create custom probes like the Pico?

[@JeffinTD]

Excellent. Thanks for posting the up.

[@Graham_Wideman]

Interesting cautionary discussion. So if the output voltage span is 4V, for a "200 psi" sensor, that's 50 psi per volt. So 14.7 psi corresponds to 0.3V. If the sensor output can go down to 0.2V, that should cover the pressure range down to absolute zero. The 300psi sensor would be even less challenged. Of course the 100psi sensor (25psi/volt) would be limited _at best_ to "-12.5" psi (or about 25" vacuum). Those observations only deal with the constraint imposed by the 0.5V span for below-atmospheric pressures. There may be some other internal reason why the sensor's reporting of below-atmospheric pressures could be more limited, or non-linear. So I think the take-away point for me is that a 200psi or 300psi "cheap" gauge-pressure sensor may be just fine, but check it with a hand vacuum pump (like in this video) to see if the readings it gives at a series of vacuum points is indeed what would be expected, given the sensor's volts per psi.

[@robertmobileman8304]

Hi Dave I was told that the pico scope your using is not compatible for automotive testing , is there some sort of hack to get it to work on automotive? Thanks great videos

[@davesterl]

Watch the video in the link for more info on that scope

[@SimplyDiagnostics]

Dave, is the Honeywell one the best you've found?

[@davesterl]

its the only one ive tried steve, apart from those generic ones. I went for this particular one cos of price (honeywell PX2 series is around £130), has to be absolute, 1/8 NPT to fit my stuff, elctrical connection is the same as the generic ones

[@SimplyDiagnostics]

@@davesterl cheers, I'm thinking of one for intake measurement 👍

[@danielgreenbaum8875]

Hi dave I've just bought one of silver transducers gonna get one of them absolute ones now after watching your video were did you get the pipe you screw the transducer into for the compression test

[@davesterl]

Draper 94269

[@danielgreenbaum8875]

@@davesterl thanks dave keep up these great videos learn't alot with your videos over last few months

[@davesterl]

@@danielgreenbaum8875 you're welcome, thank you for the kind words

[@bartscave]

Great job. I’ve been trying to find a sensor that would show the vacuum portion of the engine cycle. I noticed it still seems to have a choppy appearance though. Is that the slower sample rate of the sensor, or the model of pico scope you’re using? Thanks for your research!

[@davesterl]

It can be improved. I'll maybe do a follow up video as this was just about the type of transducer to use to achieve a vacuum. The screen was zoomed in quite a lot to show the ranges

[@bartscave]

@@davesterl , thanks again. I've been trying to find an inexpensive option to the WPS

[@robertmobileman8304]

Hi Dave what did u use to connect the sensor a compression tester adapter ? Thanks Rob

[@davesterl]

1/8 npt adapter

[@AutoFocus-se]

Good points. I have tried some different transducers and I find that most are too slow, It looks like u have some filtrering to get The waveform smooth? Cheers.

[@davesterl]

Hey Autofocus, haven't heard from you for a while. Yeah there is room for improvement on the waveform. It wasn't the focus of the video tho might do a follow up

[@russellmcallister6830]

Dave do you have a part no for the electrical connecter ? Thank you sir

[@russellmcallister6830]

Disregard that bud found them

[@davesterl]

I dont, its the same as what comes with the generic sensors

[@paulvscott]

-7psi BDC decompress stroke? Isn’t that a massive leaky cylinder?

[@bobbaxter952]

Ive got an older snap-on verus classic,i don't fancy bending over and paying £190 to snapon for one transducer and the cable.Is there anywhere i can buy,or make up a proper lead with the three prong end that plugs into the transducer,and the 9 pin round plug at the other end that fits my verus?Then i can just buy a seperate good transducer to suit?Thanks.

[@davesterl]

I did a video on a lead to fit a vantage or a modis, not sure about a verus

[@bobbaxter952]

@@davesterl Ive got the adapter you need for the verus to take the snap-on pressure transducer,i was just wondering if i can source a cable like the snap-on one. £190 is crazy for a cable and a transducer,i bought an mot'd fiat coupe last year for that money lol,and he brought it to me.;-)

[@adamapsitis6325]

"Absolutely" awesome video. I knocked up a home made with a chepo sensor, used the 100 psi and must have gotten lucky with its range, although I do have to use more filtering than I would like to clean the wave form up. Would you say the Honeywell sensor reaction time is better than the cheapo ones? Did you add any filtering to your custom probes? Would love to see a bit more on custom probe set up if your thinking of doing anymore content on this. Cheers, Adam.

[@davesterl]

Cheers Adam, if you over filter you loose some of the waveform. The 100 does go down more than the 200 from the vacuum test. If we consider the definition of the two waveforms the cheepo does not capture enough information for a good analysis. I may do a follow up depending on the questions tho, cheers dave

[@no1conrod]

Another great video Dave, does the Honeywell sensor come with it's wiring and plug or does the cheapo ones fit it ?

[@davesterl]

thats another bit that didnt make the edit lol. The honeywell Does Not come with an electrical connector. There are many variations of the Honeywell with different connections. This particular Honeywell is the exact same plug and pinout of the cheepo

[@no1conrod]

Thanks for that Dave.

[@billytremoloband7456]

Great vid Dave as always, could tell me what have you got the Pico plugged into? I’m looking at getting one of those handier Pico scopes but I only have an old windows 7 laptop just looking at ideas of something a bit handier to use.

[@davesterl]

Its a chuwi tablet

[@billytremoloband7456]

dave sterl Spot on lad.

[@billytremoloband7456]

dave sterl Il check them out

[@steveguest8028]

Great video Dave thanks 👍

[@adrianlowes1848]

Great video mate. I did notice even with the absolute transducer the berry bottom of the waveform looked flattened or was that just me.

[@davesterl]

The lowest point is at - 7.5psi and i dont see any flat spots

[@adrianlowes1848]

@@davesterl Thanks for the reply must just be the screen

[@CarsExposed]

I already been in that RS components website last week I better get on it again 😉👍👍 cheers

[@davesterl]

aye good service from RS, price includes delivery also

[@CarsExposed]

@@davesterl 👍🙌

[@TheGibby3340]

Interesting find. Reasonable price...Cheers Dave

[@davesterl]

aye could of went into more about the set up, zeroing etc but had to edit it down. Video was originally 50mins. Might do a follow up depending on the questions. cheers dave (ps, you guys have loadsa high pressure for a while over there)

[@swordofthelord7104]

Great info Dave. Top of the class ;)

[@davesterl]

cheers partner!

[@TheWowaddict97]

off topic but can you set us lights on VWs m8?

[@davesterl]

set us lights??

[@davesterl]

Find the items that are used on the Dave Sterl channel in the Amazon shop. www.amazon.co.uk/shop/davesterl

[@hvtvalencia36]

excelente ...un saludo desde españa

[@thewespaul6520]

Holy ear rape intro

[@davesterl]

Glad you got something from the video

[@mikejmardis]

I think you might be off in your thinking. ALL transducers ranges are referenced to .5-4.5v. So the scaling has to be different for the stated range. Up to 100 psi, 300psi, 500psi or 5000psi. But they are still working in the same voltage range. That’s why, if you want to measure some voltage and some vacuum, you use a 100psi or lower rated transducer. The diaphragms are different to react slower or faster to pressure changes to get the most out of the 4v range you have. You are correct in stating that it is important to know if the transducer is starting at absolute or gauged. But, that in of its self doesn’t make the item crap. In fact, some of “the best” transducers are coming out of China. You just need to know what their range is and what their starting point (absolute or gauged) is. That’s not to say a lot from China isn’t crap. You need to do you homework. As far as pico is concerned, you can take any transducer and make it work through custom probe settings. You just need the range. Note- the pico was isn’t a true absolute. It’s software defined. After all it will only go to -15 I would bet that if you took the cheapo and customized the probe with the fact that it’s starting at gauged, you would get the right reading. But for simplicity, it’s best to start at atmosphere.

[@davesterl]

I show how to change the scaling for the different pressures in Part2. I think i did do my homework, you see how many of the budget transducers that i have on the bench. Nowhere in the video did i state the budget transducers are crap, they are not suited to what we need them to do. The point of this video is that we need an absolute transducer for in cylinder waveform analysis. The gauge type do not show enough negative pressure. The pico is absolute so goes to -15. Customizing the probe meerly sets the scale to convert the voltage output of the transducer to whatever you need it to read, the fact that zero pressure is important for the analysis. I find your comment bemusing to say the least, it's as if you are commenting on another video

[@sandyande]

Cheers Dave I'm going to be minus £50 soon- holiday fund LOL cheers sandy

[@davesterl]

Big Yin! Get the dough off Roddy, tell him you can't continue without it. Please dont mention my name tho, cos he'll have Fife's Finest looking out to get me(again) Lol, cheers dave

[@southfloridadventure]

Need to control your voice volume. Dont talk quiet and then yell out to make a point. Its annoying

[@davesterl]

If you don't like it then don't watch it.

[@mikethomas9544]

Picky Whinning Bastard, you must be a Pommy.

[@spuriustadius5034]

Looks like the Honeywell brass transducer is their PX-3 product line (sps.honeywell.com/us/en/products/sensing-and-iot/sensors/pressure-sensors/industrial-pressure-sensors/px3-series). They also have a MIP product line (sps.honeywell.com/us/en/products/sensing-and-iot/sensors/pressure-sensors/industrial-pressure-sensors/mip-series) which is stainless but with similar specs (both lines have a huge number of options, so you really have to choose the correct part number). The PX-3 is not recommended for media that has water or steam or anything that will corrode. MIP will be OK with water as all parts that contact the media are stainless.

[@davesterl]

It is a Px 3 as shown on the data sheet