I think the implication is that Cersei HAD mostly forgotten about the Maggy the Frog Prophesy for years, and was slightly reminded of it when Tyrion made his Ashes in the Mouth threat, and then when Joffrey dies in front of her, the full PTSD kicks in and only now after all this has happened can she never stop thinking about it.
@RoastedToasted0 Жыл бұрын
Oh yea I like this take, makes sense to me
@FaV1 Жыл бұрын
@@umwhaI don't think that works. If she always remembered the prophecy and she thinks about it regularly why would she not go find out what it means? it shouldn't be too difficult really
@gustavoferroni2693 Жыл бұрын
Exactly and then Tywin is killed by Tyrion. Even though this was not part of the prophecy, the trauma would just increase her paranoia
@marlonthomas8042 Жыл бұрын
@@umwha it would only work if it was little brother in lazareen Casterly Rock has maesters Most, if not all would speak valryian It comes across as Latin in Westeros all learned people would know how to write and read it Unless it meant “little sister” and she heard oberyn saying Tyrion was rumoured to be born with both parts and that triggered her I think it works as is because it kind of gives a logical reason for her hatred of him over the years when he’s been innocent
@CharlesFreck Жыл бұрын
@@umwha Kinslaying is totally different to murdering your friend. As far as I know, there's never actually any mention of killing and murder being specifically restricted by the faith. Kinslaying is, but murder isn't brought up as far as I remember. If you kill someone, especially someone of a lower station, the stakes aren't as high. Murdering your highborn brother? Remember, while Tyrion isn't given the easiest treatment in life, Tywin doesn't throw him down a well, which would be the standard practice if you had a dwarf as a child. The fact is, Tywin does in some way care about Tyrion, or he'd have just killed him when he was young. So if Tywin finds out Cersei murdered her brother, or suspected it, that would be way worse then if he found out she killed Melara. So no, I don't think there's any evidence Cersei would willingly be a kinslayer when she was a child. Kinslaying is considered the highest crime in the faith. Young Cersei would almost certainly believe killing her brother would lead to damnation.
@BlueFiasco69 Жыл бұрын
I think a reasonable explanation for the night forts giant mouth door and the nights watch vow needing to be said is to remind the brothers each and every time they have to hand over a sacrifice why they are doing it. To remind them they do this for the realm. It can't be easy psychologically to willingly hand over a baby to what they basically see as ice demons.
@gustavoferroni2693 Жыл бұрын
Wouldn't it be cool if Jon Snow comes back to life and becomes kind of a new night king? Jon declares himself King, takes the Night Fort as his seat and begins using the door. He doesn't sacrifice or comunicate with the Others but everybody thinks he does. That would be a good plot
@SalsaAndChips Жыл бұрын
@@gustavoferroni2693 this had been explored in a few fanfics. "The north remembers" by qqueenofhades definitely explores this and is one of the better fanfics out there
@SingingSealRiana Жыл бұрын
very good point!
@ser_ryon_vine6392 Жыл бұрын
Love this
@D0omscream Жыл бұрын
This. Preston was just projecting his lack of imagination.
@dontnerfmebro8052 Жыл бұрын
Who ever is loyal to house Lannister at the wall must have powerful friends.
@iliaponomarev1624 Жыл бұрын
> Where would the Conqueror's crown go? Wherever Conqueror's crowns go... I'm really surprised there aren't millions of "genuine Aegon's crowns" sold on every market for 4 stags a piece.
@TheDelinear Жыл бұрын
I really like the idea that Varys is just playing both sides with Aegon being neither the true heir nor a secret Blackfyre. It fits so well thematically. It also makes the mummer's dragon thing fit better too, because if Aegon was a secret Blackfyre, he'd at least have _some_ claim to the throne, so the idea that he's a complete fake and Varys is playing _both_ sides is fun (and has historical precedence in the Dunc and Egg stories).
@uthorofthehightower3367 Жыл бұрын
"Mummer's dragon" doesn't necessarily mean he's fake. It can be interpreted as "Varys's Targaryen"
@JaCob_101_ Жыл бұрын
@@uthorofthehightower3367yeah that's how I've always looked at it
@bigdaddycorn Жыл бұрын
They're going to get word that Stannis died at the Wall (maybe true, maybe not), Selyse and Melisandre will sacrifice Shireen to ressurect him, but Melisandre will resurrect Azor Ahai. Oops John comes back to life and finally Melisandre gets it.
@carolinaalberdingi Жыл бұрын
I think that the third Blackfire treasure is Dany's mother's crown. Queen Rhaella crown was very important to Dany and her brother, and giving that crown back to her can be a way to manipulate her. It fits really well also with Dany's overall arc, since the crown that now she has is from a foreign land (Qart) and symbolized her reign in Mereen. Discharging that crown for the crown of her mother could be a way to emphasize how now she is completely focus on reconquering Westeros
@konfluxspelaren Жыл бұрын
Would that be a treasure of the Blackfyres though? I do like your idea, and it would be nice to have it come back into the story. Especially if (as I remember anyway) it was more important to Viserys than to Dany. Dany could be given it, and end up having to chose between carrying it, and accept following her brothers obsession, or discard it for something represent her actual parents (if we buy into the idea of Dany not being a real Targaryen). Like I said, I like the idea, but I don't know enough to understand why/how Rhealla's crown could be called on of Blackfyres three treasures.
@AttemptedJustice Жыл бұрын
@@umwhawell, Rhaella is Rhaegars mother and the only one who was saved from the tragedy at summerhall. So the crown could have two things going for it that would make it interesting to the blackfyres. 1) if Faegon truly is a Blackfyre that they are trying to pass off as a Targaryen.. the crown of Rhaella may bring some legitimacy to that claim. 2) being an item that was present during the great blood sacrifice that is the tragedy of summer hall, it could have some magical properties that we are not aware of
@ashtton_tapiwa Жыл бұрын
@@konfluxspelaren Viserys and Dany sold Rhaella's crown out of desperation, right? Illyrio and/or Varys could have easily used their connections to get their hands on it. OR even more calculated, Varys/Illyrio could have influenced some of the peopled that housed young Dany & Viserys to abandon them hence creating the desperation. Anyway they have enough time and resources to get their hands on the crown, it's really plausible.
@hobbes1887 Жыл бұрын
I think that the burning of Shireen will happen. However it is not going to happen in the first battle of ice, against Ramsay, but in the real one, to help against the Others. It makes much more sense, for Stannis. You can fight men with steel, but to fight monsters you need a bigger sacrifice. His daughter for the safety of the kingdom. The fact that Shireen death is going to be useless and senseless will only be more tragic.
@jsull81 Жыл бұрын
The way I see the burning of Shireen going down is after Jon is stabbed & Mel hears the news that Stannis is dead, she'll consult the fires & end up seeing a vision that makes her believe she needs to burn Shireen to bring Stannis back. (Maybe at the Nightfort) Which she easily convincs Selyse of After which, Jon will come back as some kind of wight. And regardless of whether or not it actually had anything to do with Jon's resurrection or if he really is AAR, that's exactly what Mel will think Selyse will probably call it quits & unalive herself, and Stannis will blame himself because I'm pretty sure it's his plan to fake his own death. Which will set all this into motion & trigger the burning of Shireen I think he's going to pull off the Night lamp theory to kill the Frays, and then join forces with Manderly. (Davos & Rickon might be back by then, too) Manderly will send word back to to Winterfell that Stannis is dead, then Stannis will dress up his southern men in Frey cloths & join forces with the Northern lords inside to take back Winterfell So right after he's had the biggest victory of his entire campaign, I think he'll get the news of Shireen & realize that his ploy may have won him Winterfell & the Lords of the North, but it also cost him his only daughter & probably one of the only individuals he actually cared about Another potentially interesting angle to this is what Devan will do during all this. Will he stick up for his classmate & friend? Or will he go full on religious fanatic & help Mel (someone he seems infatuated with) to lure Shireen to her cruel demise 😬 And as far as the pink letter goes, that could still be anyone. It could be Ramsey going off of what Manderly tells him. It could be Mance trying to call in reinforcements. It could be Stannis with the help of Theon & Manderly. (But Idk what they'd need Jon for? They probably have enough forces between the two of them & presumably have a Lord of Winterfell in Rickon) Or it could be someone at the Wall riffing off of the news of Stannis (supposed) defeat
@jsull81 Жыл бұрын
@@umwha this is a good guess too, and I also think Jon could end up on the pyre (maybe Mel, as well) to mimic what we saw with Dany. Thanks for reminding me : )
@jsull81 Жыл бұрын
@@umwha exactly! That's definitely a very George thing to do, lol
@gustavovaniterson9474 Жыл бұрын
I think the exact thing, and to make it more emotionally impactful. What if she uses a glimmer to hide her identity as DAVOS😨. In the past she made a weird comment about a bag of fingerbones. What if she has it in her possession and uses this personal item in the ritual. Imagine Shireen seeing herself being burned by a person she considered a friend.
@jsull81 Жыл бұрын
@@gustavovaniterson9474 omg that's horrible 😲 but I could definitely see it playing out like that just to make it even more horrific. Poor Shireen : ( And I guess the one wildcard would be Patchface. What kind of disturbing role will he end up playing in all this, lol
@mschell8022 Жыл бұрын
Great ideas. I really like your idea that Mel tries to bring Stannis back but ends up bringing Jon back. That would really confuse her and send her into a crisis of faith for sure.
@derekfurst6233 Жыл бұрын
My theory is that not every brother can open the door. Only those who swore an oath in front of a heart tree
@nurdersvw8070 Жыл бұрын
Who did this except from Jon and Sam?
@trevinwolverine1904 Жыл бұрын
@@nurdersvw8070 The thousands of northern nights watchmen since the erection of the wall?
@JaCob_101_ Жыл бұрын
@@nurdersvw8070maybe all of the nights watch men thousands of years ago idk
@AS-fi7hc Жыл бұрын
31:15 I know GRRM likes his occasional shocking death but I think a burning for the sake of shock value is more of a D&D things. So if GRRM would have Stannis burn Shireen I think rather than asking if it’s in Stannis’ character we should focus on asking what he’d be trying to say? Thematically why is it important that Stannis does the burning rather than Selyse or Melisandre? As Preston has pointed out numerous times this theme of sacrificing your children seems to be big with GRRM and is probably a commentary on sending young people off to war and perhaps is a biblical parallel as well. On the biblical front, there’s the stories of both God with Jesus and Abraham with Issac. Since he’s obviously using Melisandre and worshipers of the Red God to comment on religious extremism those biblical parallels seem important. I would say the only problem is that he hasn’t set up Stannis as genuinely religious fanatic who would be willing to burn his own daughter for his deeply held religious beliefs. Maybe instead Stannis is supposed to symbolize people who uses religious fanaticism purely for political ends and maybe GRRM is trying to say there’s isn’t an actual difference between the two?Like saying there isn’t a difference between a bigot and someone using bigotry to their advantage because in the end you’ll end up doing the exact same terrible things even if you believe your motivations to be more logical? (I know this comment is SUPER long but just some of my thoughts on the Stannis plot)
@AS-fi7hc Жыл бұрын
The Mireen story proves that GRRM was influenced by the US’ wars on terror and there was definitely a debate raging back in the 2000s about how much of that was religious vs being purely political using religion as a cover
@AS-fi7hc Жыл бұрын
It may still be off logically but at least it fits thematically which makes it seem more likely to actually happen
@barbaraludwiczak6798 Жыл бұрын
Stannis burning Shireen in exchange for the snow to melt makes no sense given the fact that Stannis once survived the siege of Storm's End eating boot leather. That's where D&D failed Stannis, probably because they didn't understand this character and didn't like him. I was never Stannis fan though I can understand his popularity. What comes to mind here is mythological reference i.e. Agamemnon sacrificing Iphigenia in order to get a wind so that his fleet could sail to Troy. there is only one problem - Stannis doesn't resemble Agamemnon and Rhllor religion doesn't resemble Greek religion. Agamemnon is greedy, rapacious and dishonest. He is more of a thug than lawful king. So your biblical reference is much more relevant - sacrificing a child for the love of God. And still, just as you had mentioned Stannis is no Abraham as well. Stannis burning Shireen to defeat the others makes more sense yet it is still repugnant. And in the past Stannis and Melisandre burned people they considered "pagans" those who didn't reject the Faith of the Seven. They used burning as a form of punishment - they burned some cannibals, as far as i recall, burned traitors, some Florents, i reconn. Some soldiers wanted to burn Asha Greyjoy to prove the superiority of Rhllor over the Drowned God, I suppose. Burning Shireen might look very weird, especially to the other R'hllor believers. Shireen is young and innocent, she was also raised in Red God religion. Also, thematically, it's stag in flames, not a doe in flames. I think the best possible option would be if it were Stannis who would walk into the flames. The best scenario would be if Stannis agreed to burn Shireen, yet at the last moment decided to sacrifice himself. That would be much more consistent with his character. Yes, sacrificing children is big in ASIOAF, yet if there were one person who could avoid this trope, this could be Stannis. I mean he is dutiful and lawful. It would be nice if his death came as a shock to Melisandre who is kind of a deluded hack.
@alexanderguerrero347 Жыл бұрын
There is a another biblical parallel Saul and David. Saul didn’t listen to god and sacrificed something he shouldn’t have because he wanted to keep the better livestock for himself and in turn lost favor with god and the prophet latched on to another king David. Stannis maybe not being a true believer and maybe sacrificing shireen when he shouldn’t have would lead to a new azor ahai. Jon. Who rises because of shireens death and Melisandre is the prophet in this scenario
@mschell8022 Жыл бұрын
Wow great ideas, you should make your own theory vid about this
@adumsundler4397 Жыл бұрын
George might do what Miura did in Berserk. Stannis sacrifices Shireen in order to return to glory, after being tortured and flayed by Ramsay. Since George likes taking away the most important aspects to a characters' identity, like Cersei in the walk of shame or Jaime losing his hand. I can see George doing something similar with Stannis; Stripping away his persona of a strong, proud, unbending man. It would put him in a low enough position to where I could see him making the decision to sacrifice his daughter. We also know that George intends the dire wolves and Ramsey's dogs to have a confrontation. Maybe that could happen in a plan to rescue Stannis from the Boltons?
@nobisresemgambi Жыл бұрын
Regarding the Nightfort gate, I would like to believe the only way to get pass would be using the night's watch creed if you swore it before a wierwood tree...as in the the gate is connected to the tree network and can confirm your oath.
@CharlesFreck Жыл бұрын
I'm almost certain this is true. Because Sam can open it, and I believe Sam swearing his vows with Jon matters to the story and George intends for us to keep this in mind. It's not the Words that are important, it's tradition and your roots. Only Northerners who follow the Old Gods swear oaths in front of a heart tree, and a vow in front of a heart tree can be considered more valuable, as it's said the Old Gods know if you're lying. Sam may have, unintentionally, allowed the Children of the Forest and the Weirwood-net to see that he intends to keep his vows and can be relied upon to help them against the Others. I can't think that their isn't greater significance in the story to Sam swearing his vows in front of the Heart Tree, and that him opening the gate is meant to be a clue to us about that.
@PortCityBalrog Жыл бұрын
I love this
@TheCbot8810 ай бұрын
Fire could be the only cure at hand for Greyscvale.
@jewsco Жыл бұрын
One could easily argue it took Joffrey’s death for Cersei to remember the prophecy
@donaldjgumpofficial5754 Жыл бұрын
Especially because Tyrion is the suspect.
@jewsco Жыл бұрын
@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 yep 👍
@aguglie441 Жыл бұрын
Or to “misremember”
@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je Жыл бұрын
Exactly. Preston seems to think that everyone in the story has perfect knowledge at all times.
@jewsco Жыл бұрын
@@aguglie441 that too as humans memories are notoriously bad and over time we fill in the blanks with other things we have experienced
@princeprocrastinate6485 Жыл бұрын
Really enjoying these breakdowns of what might have been and all the speculation from it. My appetite for Winds has grown out of control again. Come on George, give us the novel by next year please I beg, it's been almost 9 years since I first read the books, I can't take this anymore.
@PowerfulSkeleton6 ай бұрын
Hello from a year in the future! I hope you're enduring the wild ride.
@JoelCromwell Жыл бұрын
Actually Preston, 'Pretender' isn't a negative term in the context. 'Blackfyre Pretender' refers to the Blackfyre claimant to the throne. For example, the Jacobite Pretender to the throne of the United Kingdom is Franz Herzog von Bayern, a direct descendant of the defunct House of Stuart. That being said, I think this is meant to be ironic, because I do agree that Aegon is being presented to the Golden Company as Aegon Blackfyre. So, he is pretending to be the Blackfyre Pretender. I'm personally of the opinion that Aegon is a lyseni commoner who just happens to have the right look.
@Ahrimanh86 Жыл бұрын
I gotta agree with you now man. Remember what The Eunuch said about who and how men hold power and what gives them that power? I never put 2 and 2 together before until reading your comment.
@Ahrimanh86 Жыл бұрын
Also...mandatory Stannis emoji ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
@thedemonhater7748 Жыл бұрын
I’m curious as to what thematic purpose it would serve if Aegon was a literal who instead of a blackfyre or a targaryen.
@RoastedToasted0 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been looking forward to this - Count Dooku
@chadsummerchild1120 Жыл бұрын
Goodbye hands 🙌🏼
@louisroy4911 Жыл бұрын
The third treasure of the Blackfyres is obviously friendship!
@nurdersvw8070 Жыл бұрын
I don't think that we would ever really know what happened to Shireen, because there is no POV Character. It would be through Davos eyes and he'd blame Melisandre and defend Stannis.
@trevinwolverine1904 Жыл бұрын
Jon is dead and Sam is in essos that works out My dumbass forgot melisandre had her own chapter
@gooby2146 ай бұрын
@@trevinwolverine1904 Sam is at the Citadel at Oldtown, not in Essos anymore.
@andrewsharpe7630 Жыл бұрын
GRMM specifically told D&D that Shireen would be burned? Somehow I didn't realize that. Season 5 came out in 2015. I don't know how much work George has done to ASOIAF in the past 8 years, but maybe he changed that plot point. Or Stannis gets his victory over the Boltons but sacrifices Shireen in a later struggle against the White Walkers. But is that the entire Stannis story? I'd like to see more moving pieces before a potential big WW showdown. Personally, I'm okay with Jon not coming back (I like Stannis more), but I'd be okay with a resurrection scene if it makes sense doesn't suck ass like the show (I've seen great theories in the comment section here). Yeah, Book 6 will look nothing like Season 6 of GOT. So many big battles and moments are set up for the book (Stannis v Bolton, Euron v Lannisters, Griff v Storm's End, potential dragon fight over Mereen with Quienten and Victarion, whatever the heck happens to Jaime and Brienne, etc.) that completely contradict the nonsense the show gave us.
@weshouser821 Жыл бұрын
Yo Preston thanks for sticking out so long on these videos man. I know you get on people's asses when they don't read the books but man some of us just dont have time and we need to watch people who know what they are talking about to discuss the books and everything about them so we can enjoy the story too. I think you are a bit underappreciated because even though some of your theories aren't all the most popular necessarily in the theory community, I think you probably give the most well thought out, fleshed out and detailed thoughts on all things ice and fire and I think you are pretty much spot on with most of your shit. I think you were so spot on that Gerorge himself didn't know what to do about it so he had to change it all up and here we are..
@JohnTorres198711 ай бұрын
I think that 5 year gap would’ve been a good idea sometimes.
@equinoxomega3600 Жыл бұрын
My idea for the third treasure would be a surviving copy of Septon Barth's Unnatural History, because knowledge is power (especially if it is dragon lore).
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
That doesn't really make sense. Why would Griff command Tyrion to write down whatever he knew of the dragonlore if he just got the ultimate dragonlore book from Illyrio? Maybe he just couldn't come up with anything worthwhile for Tyrion to do, but then why not give Tyrion the book to read?
@equinoxomega3600 Жыл бұрын
@@lordmelvin9310 Probably because the idea of the three treasures got abandoned later and now Tyrion fills that role. But yes, with the current status of the story, the idea doesn't work well anymore.
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
@@equinoxomega3600 Fair enough.
@tell276 Жыл бұрын
Loved the entire video Preston. The secret door with the magic tree was one of my favorite parts of ASOS, and I'm sad that you're probably right in that George will drop it, and it won't be mentioned again. I also liked how you pointed out at the end of the video that George does major rewriting and isn't afraid to drop or add stuff, he told us this in the July 2022 blog post, but this is just more evidence that Winds will be nothing like Got.
@notthis9586 Жыл бұрын
I think the 3rd treasure is probably the crown, but putting on my thickest, most reflective tinfoil I would like to posit that it was actually Dragonbinder.
@TheDelinear Жыл бұрын
That's what immediately came to my mind, too. I think Preston has even discussed in the past, what if Dragonbinder doesn't actually bind dragons to men, but men to dragons (i.e. Targaryens, and by extension Blackfyres). What is a symbol of a king, if not a means of binding men to kings through pageantry and tradition? However, maybe that was a thread George was pulling at and then dropped. If it were true, I would have expected some mention of it in relation to Aegon the Conqueror, so at this point the crown is the more likely explanation.
@Mj_Jetson Жыл бұрын
With that third Blackfyre treasure, is it possible that it was going to be Aegon's crown? like, Aegon the Fourth gave Daemon the crown at the same time as he gave him the sword? But then GRRM changed his mind and lost the crown with Daeron I in Dorne (I think the fate of the crown is only discussed in the world book, never in the main series?).
@a.k.summers5633 Жыл бұрын
Vis a vis prior Cercei and mad Maggie the Frog Cercei... having your child brutally murdered right in front of you miiiiiiight alter your sanity/make you reevaluate prior stances on your adversaries a little bit ;) i think it squares up well.
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, she kind of obsesses over Joff in AffC.
@Mj_Jetson Жыл бұрын
With Cersei and the moon tea revelation, why is it that Pycelle knows that information? (or did he lie about the moon tea?) Why wouldn't Margaery trust Ballabar instead of Pycelle (or did Ballabar leave court with Paxter Redwyne to attack Dragonstone?) And why didn't she trust her own maester - "Margaery is still convinced he will not die," she reported, as the queen was dressed for court. "She plans to send her own maester to look after him. The cousins are praying for the Mother's mercy." (Cersei VIII AFfC) - unless she means send the Highgarden maester from Highgarden to Dragonstone to look after Loras?
@aguglie441 Жыл бұрын
Maybe Pycelle knows because he is the one that is managing the inventory of potions, poisons and the such. Edit: that is my only guess as to why
@CharlesFreck Жыл бұрын
Who knows? Pycelle could be lying, Pycelle could be the only one with access to Moon Tea, Pycelle could've found out some other way. We don't really know.
@emarti3853 Жыл бұрын
Nobody but builders occupy the night Fort. Queen selyse delayed inhabiting it. The nights watch mutineers may use it as a defensible position.
@iliaponomarev1624 Жыл бұрын
On the door I have a thought that it's a voice recognition plus password system. Only those who know the words and have spoken the words in front of some weirwood in the Haunted Forest can pass. Which, by the way, would mean Sam got extremely lucky he could pass. And, well, having people give their Snows to the tree is probably more acceptable for them than giving kids directly to the Others. So, nothing rational here, just some religious imagery, meaning of which is probably lost.
@Gui101do Жыл бұрын
Preston is the man.
@that_chaotic-person Жыл бұрын
I think the lack of Maggie makes sense - Tyrion and Cersei seem to have a much better relationship in AGOT, to the point that Tyrion believes that Cersei would probably help him get out of the Vale. But their relationship is a lot worse at the start of ACOK.
@winterlord9942 Жыл бұрын
Guys if Stannis decides to burn Shereen is because her Greyscale awakes again (as Val predicts) and some people get infected (maybe Selyse and Patchface too).
@gooby2146 ай бұрын
There's no such thing as greyscale "awaking again". Val is an uneducated savage expressing irrational fears for a disease she doesn't understand. There's literally not a single case of greyscale "returning" from cured victims. We don't have ANY precedent of a cured victim becoming sick again. Also Stannis would never resort to BURN Shireen just because of disease. He'd just have a humane euthanization. And I'll take the studies from educated scholars over the freak out of some wildling woman any day.
@alialmuhanna4938 Жыл бұрын
4:23 I suppose this also speaks to the Blackwood vs Bracken feud; it doesn’t matter how or why it started, continuing it results in more bloodshed; might as well just end it altogether. But the question is always going to be “Ok, how ?” And neither side is willing to back down, and more bloodshed ensues.
@drewengel7073 Жыл бұрын
I think what the history books are setting up is Cannibal, he is made of particular note in Fire and Blood, so much that it seems like he will come back in a big way in Winds.
@juanlove1980 Жыл бұрын
About the “mouth door” I had just reread asoiaf recently… and had thought to myself that if nights watch only have to say the vow to open it… why wouldn’t Mance just use that for the wildlings to cross the wall?
@madelynmorgan2999 Жыл бұрын
for thousands and thousands of ppl and their animals? when they thought it wouldn’t beThat hard to defeat castle black and break thru the unfrozen wall gates? they totally would have succeeded too, without Stannis ex Machina. it just makes more logistical sense to knock out the crows and go through castle black. plus who knows that mance even knew abt the black gate
@MrSilvUr Жыл бұрын
How would he know about it?
@ZoomReverseFlash Жыл бұрын
Yeah, one of the things that never made sense in the overall strong "Aegon Blackfyre" theory is that the whole point of the Blackfyre cause was them considering themselves the more legitimate Targaryen line, so they had no need for secrecy, as pretending to be children of the "illegitimate" Daeron's line would go against the whole point of the Blackfyre cause. None of the suggestions given (oh, they will reveal it when Aegon is already king; oh, maybe they will whitewash the Blackfyres in their histories) really resolve that (especially when the Golden Company was apparently ready to work with Viserys if he had an army of the Dothraki). But if "Aegon Blackfyre" is just a story Varys tells the GC leaders, with a wink wink nudge nudge, and a mention of how Maelys failed despite good odds, so maybe they can work with other Targaryen supporters for now by making them hope for Rhaegar's son reborn, I can believe that Strickland and co. would shut up and stay silent about many things, hoping that "the prince who has the blood of Daemon" would lead the victory if only they could get support for "false Targaryen line" supporters, too.
@JoniukasVader Жыл бұрын
Back are we and
@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je Жыл бұрын
So just because Pycelle said that sellsword ships would attack the shipping of Freys, that means that the Manderlys would attack? That's a huge leap, they are in an alliance at this point.
@trevinwolverine1904 Жыл бұрын
Manderly ships are a backup for the long night when the Redwyne and Greyjoy fleets destroy themselves in the battle of blood
@sergeant_chris6209 Жыл бұрын
Very minor, but it's that there are two Houses Kenning, one of which has its seat in Kayce, not two houses Kayce.
@manband20 Жыл бұрын
The only way I can think of Jon returning, besides being a Lady Stoneheart type of wight who is either possessed or just turns evil is by a complete accident bait-and-switch and my idea is honestly really bad but worth thinking about. In the chaos of the coup and the attack on the Wildlings, Ghost and any of Jon's friends left at Castle Black grab him and drag him to the ice cells where his blood loss lessens and they manage to stabilize him enough that he's not "dead" but really fucked up like the victim of a prison shanking. After Mel sacrifices Shireen, Jon and Co. reemerge from the ice cells and everyone thinks he's some god because he survived the stabbing. Or say fuck it and have him just become a monster. Or say double fuck it and have him stay dead. But my idea at least beats the trope of the hero returning from the grave and we all know he was actually alive the whole time. So he's a sort of anti-chosen one who just gets the role thrust on him. Also I love the idea that we've thought Jon Snow has been dead for over 12 years and in reality he's just slowly bleeding out in the snow lol
@notyourproblemnope8582 Жыл бұрын
The problem here is Jon is dead. He was dead before the fourth stab
@chrisjohnstonSolway Жыл бұрын
I had though Jon should be raised by the Others and become similar to Coldhands. A lot of his story arcs are how he sees things differently and that changes him like with the wildlings. The dreams of him armoured in black ice and him checking if the dead bodies in the ice cells have risen seem like foreshadowing to me. After all, there must always be a Lich King or a Stark in Winterfell.
@Sebomai-b8i10 ай бұрын
Jon being resurrected doesnt necessitate him becoming a Stoneheart type of wight. Jon's soul can hide out in Ghost, meaning he wont deteriorate like Catelyn. However, he will be changed, more wolflike. Quicker to violence and more concerned with his own desires. Furthermore, by hiding out in Ghost his soul wont be solely beholden to R'hllor(which is probably a Volcryn that the Maesters call the Red Comet), he will remain connected to Bran, Bloodraven, and the Weirwoodnet via Ghost.
@KingOfWinter Жыл бұрын
I think it’s funny that some house in Dorne is holding onto this ancient crown of Targaryen kings that they could make a lot of money if they try to sell but they’re scared of bringing the Targaryen wrath down upon them or something lol and then when the bratheons took over they just thought it didn’t matter anymore
@TheDelinear Жыл бұрын
If you're leaning into the post high tech society/interregnum scenario, then the Black Gate as a kind of vault door could make sense. The "eyes" would then be perhaps some kind of motion detector system, which is how the gate "knows" someone approaches. The "lips" would just be the door seal (I'm picturing a door which opens vertically, with two panels, one going down and one going up, so that when it opens from the centre, it looks like a mouth opening). The voice and vows stuff would then just be a form of password/phrase access. I'm trying to thing how someone from a pseudo medieval setting would describe such a high tech doorway, and a talking face whose eyes glow and whose mouth opens to swallow those who pass through fits the bill. It's also possible the door was just literally designed to look like a face of course, possibly for reasons of religion or tradition - just look at some of the wacky traditions we uphold in places like Westminster in the UK even today. There's any number of reasons why someone capable of engineering such a thing might go with that weird design choice, and once the technology is lost - well, any sufficiently advanced technology (relative to the observer) starts to look like magic, right?
@MichChats Жыл бұрын
The third treasure could be the bloodline itself. I mean the blackfyres were legitimized and they are of targarean decent so genetically they have what they need to be rulers and have dragons.
@sillysailorartemis Жыл бұрын
GRRM has referred to Shireen's burning as "Stannis' decision." It will be under different circumstances, but it will happen à la Men of Greywater Station/ASTNKM
@krushnaji4940 Жыл бұрын
Third treasure can be golden company
@orthog42 Жыл бұрын
The third treasure was friendship.
@johkupohkuxd1697 Жыл бұрын
@@orthog42 No, its love.
@acomputer1219 ай бұрын
You have a society that participates in ritualisted human sacrifice to literal ice demons, and you're confused as to why the altar of the sacrifice, the door to the land of the ice demons, might be spiritually significant? Why does the door invoke the vows of the night's watch? Because it's a religious sacrifice for the protection of humanity. Doesn't seem complicated or out of place with undead tree men tapping into a time travelling collective consciousness
@espalier Жыл бұрын
The wildling princess Val is the one who will push to burn Shireen.
@originalsamshu1 Жыл бұрын
Stannis scoring a Nightlamp win at the crofters village but then being routed by the main army, still warm and cozy at Winterfell, is an easy answer to how he wins and loses. Stannis' remaining forces, bruised and battered, making for the Nightfort as a semi-defensible refuge after being harried all the way to the wall by some of Bolton's acclimated northmen seems reasonable.
@OfficialRedTeamReview Жыл бұрын
I can definitely see that. Good call
@snowpocalypse69 Жыл бұрын
The way Preston pronounces Arianne always makes me think he's saying Aerion
@musculusiv4172 Жыл бұрын
JonCon, Aegon and the crew don't know that he's a Blackfyre but I'm pretty convinced that Aegon is Illyrio's and Saera Blackfyre's son. But yeah I agree that Varys and Illyrio probably won't reveal this publicly, only to certain people who would only support a Blackfyre
@emilyglass6625 Жыл бұрын
On second thought, let's not go to the Night Fort. Tis a silly place
@KingOfWinter Жыл бұрын
The Alayne chapter was awesome and is something I’m very interested in but doing 5 chapters all located in Dorne is a bit much imo. Like you couldn’t have thrown your audience a bone and done 1 stannis/Jon snow or even Tyrion/Danny chapter between them lol. The answer is yes, yes you could have. But honestly i do love the fan fic you’re writing so I’ll wait as long as I have to lol
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
He's only done two chapters in Dorne, what are you talking about?
@TheDelinear Жыл бұрын
Besides, you don't just rush into a Tyrion/Dany/Jon/Stannis chapter. Those chapters will be huge revelations to the story. I know we all want to read what happens to our favourite characters first, but let the people involved cut their teeth on these less anticipated (though still great!) chapters before diving into something so much bigger. The payoff will be so much better.
@Stevandoren1003 Жыл бұрын
With this information now people can see why it takes so long for George to finish the book.
@Sebomai-b8i10 ай бұрын
"Why would they construct it in the shape of a giant talking face" Why did the Pheonicians burn virgin girls alive inside a giant Bronze Bull? Why did the Egyptians build the Sphinx? Why did the Aztecs cover their pyramids in leering feathered serpents? Why, do you Preston, assume that a technologically advanced civilization would be atheist?
@thispersonwriting18896 ай бұрын
You said it better than I could have. Kudos.
@ivanbluecool Жыл бұрын
Strange I was just looking up blackfyre content unrelated to these notes. Guess life has a funny way of taking me.
@ladyvimto5546 Жыл бұрын
This is a great breakdown! Although not liking magic in fantasy series is bizarre😕
@TheDelinear Жыл бұрын
I don't think it's as simple as "not liking magic" in the setting. It's more that, for many authors, magic is just a way for them to hand-wave away some cool stuff they want to include in their story. George, on the other hand, tends to like to explore the source of such things. Like, if magic was real in our world, what would be the scientific basis (and certain stuff like quantum entanglement definitely starts to feel like "magic" before you have the scientific tools and language to describe it). So, it's not so much that George would/could never have a pure magical setting, it's just that it's distinctly un-George to not at least explore where such magic comes from. Lots of "magical" things in the story could have simple scientific (or future science) explanations, but the Black Gate is such a weird outlier in this regard, assuming you take the reading of the text as literal.
@konfluxspelaren Жыл бұрын
I'd assume that the third treasure was their Valyrian ancestry, no? That it was the fact that they had "the Blood of Old Valyria" and the looks to prove it. Might also hint to those in the know that they might've inherited the gene of dragon riding.
@SHARKVADERS Жыл бұрын
PJ IS BACK FOMOS
@boatman2099 Жыл бұрын
i appreciate your consistency
@chadsummerchild1120 Жыл бұрын
This guy here this guy here.. Over here, he is committed respect.
@chadsummerchild1120 Жыл бұрын
@@boatman2099 you got in the comments 9 seconds before me respect to you Sir
@emarti3853 Жыл бұрын
I like the conquerors crown coming back
@theletterm5425 Жыл бұрын
I think Stannis could win the Battle of Ice and perhaps even successfully retake Winterfell, bringing his remaining men, Selyse and Shireen there only for the Horn of Winter to blown and the Wall collapsing, letting in the Others who besiege Winterfell where Stannis, in a last ditch effort burns Shireen to defeat the army of the dead only to find out too late that this was all in vain and all of them die fighting the Others.
@allocater2 Жыл бұрын
Does this mean that Manderly's fleet has no purpose anymore and will never be mentioned again?
@7PlayingWithFire7 Жыл бұрын
It'll probably serve a larger purpose, such as ferry an army over the sea, or clash with the greyjoys, etc
@primwho2008 Жыл бұрын
I know that this is old now, but I think the Shireen burning will be in tandem with the arrival of the Others at the Wall, Stannis wins against the Bolton's and rallies the North but perhaps many things go poorly for Stannis, maybe the Winterfell roof collapse thing happens after Stannis occupies Winterfell and he loses many men and many lords and then has to go to man the Wall against the dead and takes the central position of the Nightfort and is increasingly pressured to pull a win and finally relents to burning Shireen, which will ultimately prove pointless.
@LuanDeJager Жыл бұрын
Everyone feels like Stanis in the Theon chapter is winning the battle, but all of writing would point to this leading to something bad happening to Stannis forces etc. I think the Frey's will fall into the ice, but I do not trust the manderlys, or even the Bolton's falling soon. With Jon gone and the Nights watch in rebellion there might be a call for Shireen and the Queen to flee to the Nightfort this might force Stanis to turn back to protect the realm as his duty, and this will give the Bolton's an opportunity to destroy his forces from the rear. This backs him into the corner, to burn Shireen to wake dragons, I also feel he will try to take Val as a bride in some way.
@iliaponomarev1624 Жыл бұрын
Stannis beats the Freys, incorrectly assumes he defeated the main force, storms Winterfell, loses, spends 6 months getting back to the Wall through snowstorms and has his head chopped off by Bowen Marsh, the acting Lord-Commander.
@PG19871230 Жыл бұрын
BEWARE MARSH
@lordxelizor Жыл бұрын
Is it possible that Doran has the crown and sent it with one of his loyal people who go with Arienne in her sample chapters?
@bobmcbob9856Ай бұрын
Regarding the black gate, to quote George, “it’s fantasy, man”, and besides, it may have a symbolic or foreshadowing purpose. Not everything needs to be 100% functional (it’s not even in our more technologically advanced society) and it’s totally valid if it has a literary purpose.
@jaredbrady5566 Жыл бұрын
I honestly don't think Shireen will burn. My guess is there was a plan to Burn her at one point along with this other random stuff that D&D included. I'm going to assume he gave them a bunch of draft stuff.
@pcharl01 Жыл бұрын
Can the burning of Shireen be part of Jon's resurrection? Or his ability to warg from Ghost to his body again?
@DukeDukeGo Жыл бұрын
Is the third treasure Bittersteel's skull in gold?
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
The Golden Company already has it. "All the skulls were grinning, even Bittersteel's on the tall pike in the center." - The Lost Lord, ADwD
@DukeDukeGo Жыл бұрын
@@lordmelvin9310 @mwfp1987 Does it say the treaures are lost?
@gustavoferroni2693 Жыл бұрын
Preston it would be shocking if resurrected Jon Snow was to burn her. What if Jon would become the new Night King?
@vanadium163 Жыл бұрын
For the record, I'm very interested in the characters that have been covered in the fanfic so far, it's been awesome to spend more time with these less familiar characters!!
@jenny_of_oldstones3523 Жыл бұрын
GET IN MAH BELAEAH!!! BABY THE OTHER OTHER WHITE MEAT!!!! I WANT MAH BABY BACK BABY BACK BABY BACK... CHILIS BAAAABY BAAACK RIIIIBS!!!
@brendanlenahan2193 Жыл бұрын
What if Stannis burns shireen not to beat the Boltons but to try to beat the others and that’s how his story ends. Her burning is a failure
@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Жыл бұрын
15:50 for a good picture of why, watch the beginning of “Starchaser: the Legend of Orin”
@obviousalias132 Жыл бұрын
I know you don’t follow Sanderson but in previous videos you talk about GRRM making his early draft available which is also something Sanderson does with Way of King Prime and his other unpublished works. I think this is really great to see into the mind of the author and wished more would do that. Of course instances like what happened with Harper Lee is not good but I am kinda glad we got that material.
@sillysailorartemis Жыл бұрын
Re.: Animated gates I read it as NW property for NW use, and scare anyone else off who happens on it. Or who doesn't have any babbies. (Powered by Storm's End ofc)
@corbinskywalker Жыл бұрын
GRRM PLANNED IT ALL
@tonysled6796 Жыл бұрын
its quite likely that the Targs were not the only ones that forged a bond with some sort of Lovecraftian entity. Thats what the Others potentially represent. The Targs found out they were not the only ones manipulating magic this way and thus did not have a monopoly on controlling whatever cost the blood pact came with. Valyrians controlled an extensive empire but like the Romans drew their power source from a variety of sources. Asshai seems to be a source of magical experimentation as does whatever has happened/is happening North of the Wall or as a result of the Wall. The way I look at it is this: The Nights Watch are the perfect candidates to be sacrificed to the Others because they take a vow and were criminals previously therefore they are likely to break that vow by have sex. And the products of their criminal sexual acts--similar to Craster--have some sort of magical worth. This type of taboo creation is precisely what the Valyrians were up to by mating beasts with humans. And its also probably what the Shadowbinders and Asshai taught the Valyrians. In all three circumstances elemental forces destroy the surrounding. Asshai is inhabitable, Valyria is inhabitable and every settlement North of the Wall is becoming that way. Three cataclysms. Three pacts. Three experiments. Three manipulations. Devastating consequences.....
@tonysled6796 Жыл бұрын
having*
@tonysled6796 Жыл бұрын
surroundings*
@Mj_Jetson Жыл бұрын
im wondering if all 3 of these blackfyre treasures are bs? the eggs seem to be elissa farman's, the third treasure is no where in sight, and as for the sword blackfyre - idk, would it work if Aegon got ahold of Widow's Wail (it is targaryen colors, after all), and pretended that it was Blackfyre? Or make it ambiguous whether its the real Blackfyre, or Widow's Wail, or a complete fake?
@set2877 Жыл бұрын
My belief is that FAegon will mirror Aegon II. He will have the crown of the conqueror from Dorne, the sword of the conqueror from The Golden Company, and I think he will take Kings Landing and be crowned there. The setup and foreshadowing is all there for it, and I think this will lead to a second Dance of the Dragons between Dany and FAegon. Maybe that’s what George wants me to think, and he’s gonna have FAegon come out as a blackfyre or not accomplish anything, but I personally think he’ll be crowned and die tragically versus Dany. If he ever writes the books lol
@ZoomReverseFlash Жыл бұрын
@@set2877 "The Second Dance of the Dragons" means the second case of battles between dragon riders, not another Targaryen civil war (those already happened without dragons). So, the dance will be between Dany and whoever gets a dragon, it could be Aegon, it could be Quentin, Victarion, Tyrion, Jon, it could be the Others for all I care.
@kylesamojedny4683 Жыл бұрын
Stanis met with Holland Reed, agreed to bend the knee to the rightful king aka John Snow HR finally agrees to enter the war with his forces. The bog people boats like originally plotted to take for mote calin from Iron men rewrote to help stanis.
@kylesamojedny4683 Жыл бұрын
Yes I wrote this 1 handed and a bit tipsy, hope it makes sense
@ser_ryon_vine6392 Жыл бұрын
Lol imagine Jon coming back to life than being killed again by Cersei’s men
@musculusiv4172 Жыл бұрын
Who cuts Myrcella in the draft chapter? Is she cut at all?
@Vidacaangel1318 Жыл бұрын
Love hearin Preston speak truth ❤
@Jordan-zl4pn Жыл бұрын
Rereading ADOD and Selyse and Shireen are already on their way to the Night Fort 👀
@leoferwer1813 Жыл бұрын
C'mon, guys! Why must be Stannis the one to burn Shireen??? Who said that? Selyse will burn Shireen. She's the religious zealot. She's with Shireen and Melisandre right now. She will believe her Azor Ahai is dead. She will want him to be ressurrected. And she will ressurrect Azor Ahai indeed, bu the way. edit If we believe Stannis wrote the pink letter, then the heartbreaking part of all of this is: he was the one who made Selyse think he was dead, and he lost her daughter, his true love, because of that.
@OfficialRedTeamReview Жыл бұрын
I think Dave & Dan said that though I may be mistaken on if Stannis does it
@JohnTorres198711 ай бұрын
Preston might as well have just made this a solo video.
@manband20 Жыл бұрын
Shrieen dying NEEDS to be Melisandre's idea and hers alone. George's views on religious fundamentalism are very plain and considering Mel has (allegedly) bailed him out 99 times before, it stands to reason that our second batshit crazy holy prophet POV character would do something extreme to appease her god and screw him over. Also regarding Aegon's crown, I could see Arianne randomly bringing up the Martells having it locked away in a vault in Sunspear and she would be willing to trade it in exchange for some concessions from Aegon. It'd show she's actually trying to be politically savvy while also making JonCon distrust her because she is already making demands in exchange for Martell support in war.
@thefunctionofjames Жыл бұрын
The Westermen and the Ironborn are also both portrayed as Da Bad Guyz for the most part, so the alliance feels thematically appropriate.
@jonttopia Жыл бұрын
Dem Iron 'Umies aint no proper bad guyz, we's gon show 'em how to do a real krumpin'! WAAAGH! Sorry, they way you wrote "guys" with a z just awakened something in me
@mra4521 Жыл бұрын
Anyone mentioned that Melissandre has Davos’s finger bones? She could take on his face to play Stannis in multiple ways.
@poppag8281 Жыл бұрын
Why does presten think Asoif is secretly a sci fi universe?
@trevinwolverine1904 Жыл бұрын
Because grrm wrote scifi in the past and he thinks it's a direct correlation. Most people know asoiaf is a historical fiction with fantasy elements
@poppag8281 Жыл бұрын
@@trevinwolverine1904 I will admit its not impossible and I do like the idea some moe magical elements are more mundane then we realize but to me personaly I think the universe would be alot less interesting if it turuned out EVERYTHING was mundane and there was no magic at all
@trevinwolverine1904 Жыл бұрын
@@poppag8281 There are supposed to be two more books and I think George is going to have to put the pedal to the metal with magical elements for Euron's crazy blood ritual, the long night, and Arya's face changing assassin training.
@parthdeshpande2966 Жыл бұрын
When's the series on the Cersei unconscious master plan?👀
@BramAPoe Жыл бұрын
Couldn't Stannis have left private written instructions with Melisandre (who he left at the wall) to burn Shireen in event of the battle going badly? That might be how the sacrifice is carried out It would be a little anti-climatic but it would solve the logistical problems involved for GRRM with where Stannis is now geographically
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
But that doesn't make any sense, because it does not at all square with his attitude in Theon's sample chapter. *The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead - "* *" - you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."* - Theon, ADwD
@BramAPoe Жыл бұрын
@@lordmelvin9310 I agree, Stannis appointing Shireen his heir would be at odds, however it's sorta clear George doesn't maybe think all of these things through. Also if you want to be technical about it, George could argue that it's not a total contradiction as Stannis burning Shireen could be a sort of "contingency" plan, a sort of almost secret admission he really does just want the throne for himself and is even willing to destroy his own potential heir and the Baratheon dynasty for the sake of power....it doesn't make sense as you point out but given GRRM's anti-monarchist stance it could fit thematically as well - monarchy isn't logical.
@lordmelvin9310 Жыл бұрын
@@BramAPoe "however it's sorta clear George doesn't really maybe think of all these things through". I don't know what you mean by "all these things".
@tylerruddy5444 Жыл бұрын
Preston should check out Company of the Cat, she has some pretty good theories.
@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Жыл бұрын
“Broken men” can be warged. Reek is a broken man. Reek can see battle plans. Ramsey is Brandon’s son with Barbary Dustin and a warg. Ramsey will see the battle plans though Reek’s eyes and avoid (at least the loyal to Ramsey portion) the ice traps, Stannis will lose just like Blackwater and run to the Wall again.
@hobbes1887 Жыл бұрын
Maybe not consciously, but could definitely be a deam thing.
@childofpersia1213 Жыл бұрын
Stannis will win the battle but lose the war
@Fromage10x Жыл бұрын
They were obviously discussing the famous Queen Dragonanne Sword
@Fromage10x Жыл бұрын
First and unsurprisingly last of her name
@vivecthepoet365 ай бұрын
Couldnit be that the third blackfyre treasure is the Dragon Rider blood/genes?
@viniciusvyller9458 Жыл бұрын
I tolerate Preston's dislike of magic in ASOIAF, but man, you gotta be creative when thinking about magic, the door probably only worked in the spell used to build it if it was built that way. I know, headcannon, but if you search real life historical ancient spells, this kind of highly specific requirement for working pops out many times.
@Sebomai-b8i10 ай бұрын
Copy-pasted from my comment: "Why would they construct it in the shape of a giant talking face" Why did the Pheonicians burn virgin girls alive inside a giant Bronze Bull? Why did the Egyptians build the Sphinx? Why did the Aztecs cover their pyramids in leering feathered serpents? Why, do you Preston, assume that a technologically advanced civilization would be atheist?
@Sebomai-b8i10 ай бұрын
Preston has used the idiom "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" to explain how ASOIAF is actually ScFi, but he doesnt seem to have actually internalized this concept.