Problems with Warhammer 40K as a New Player

[@emperorsson4524]

Haha ya that crazy...feet reveal when 👀

[@Noot_Official]

All good things come with time

[@custarddemustard2769]

@Noot how about for a thousand subscriber special?

[@Gnome_Gnoson]

@Andrew Sullivan You’re saying learning 40K is as easy as learning chess??

[@daeamiralis]

I find it crazy anyone can write a comment as all over the place and incoherent as this, and still kind of have a point

[@Gnome_Gnoson]

@Andrew SullivanI think learning the basics of chess is easier than learning the basics of 40K

[@vladig3995]

I honestly thought this was a bigger channel just based of the script quality. Your doin awsome man, keep it up!

[@Noot_Official]

ayy thanks man, this made my day! Hopefully I’ll have some new videos out here soon, but fr thanks for tuning in!

[@camgarner2480]

Me too, was shocked

[@sansmorty9136]

ngl same

[@joshred1571]

Same

[@Balls26672]

Wait wha

[@Bluecho4]

On the subject of cost, GW _definitely_ overcharges. As a point of comparison, look at a company like Wargames Atlantic. They produce a robust and growing selection of Imperial Guard style plastic kits. Kits which generally give you twice as many models or more than their GW equivalent, at half or less the price. With plenty of weapon and equipment options to satisfy the mechanical requirements of the units they can represent. Not to mention multi-box deals or free shipping, which make building a Guard army actually affordable. (Also, they make kits mimicking Guard regiments GW no longer makes anymore. So they're the superior product of the two by default.) GW both hiked the price for a Cadian infantry squad, AND got rid of the 5-man Cadian easy-to-build kit that made it marginally easier to fill out a force. It's like GW is hostile to the very idea of people building a Guard army. Although Guard fans already knew that, given it seems the Squats will get their new army released before Guard gets their 9th ed codex. At a time when 9th edition is almost over. GW just hates Guard, it seems. Hates Guard and hates Guard fans. They'll still try to shake them down for everything they're worth, tho.

[@Noot_Official]

You're the second person to mention Wargames Atlantic so I'll definitely check em out!

[@engineer4555]

the shit they pulled with the Guard kit, along with how they fucked over the fans around the same time, really put me off purchasing their products.

[@meganobgutzkraka2398]

Wargames Atlantic, i'll have to look at that myself since, despite being an ork player, IG is my second favorite faction and I too detest GW's prices... well as a whole I suppose. so more info to spread to shaft GW and help Warhammer players? sign me up

[@Thatonedudeyouknowtheone]

let's go baby! can't wait to get the new guard codex, finally win one single game and then have the new core rules drop the next day and completely invalidate whatever love we got in the codex and go back to being the weakest faction.

[@warforged144]

I think the fact that a lot of drama comes from guard players taking "inspiration" from certain historical armies between 1939 and 1945 doesn't help there case as well.

[@LiliaArmoury]

my tips for people wanting to get into warhammer on a budget are: 1: don't! seriously the hobby is stupidly expensive especially in australia, especially when you need: the core rules, faction rulebook, and at minimum a 500 point force, paints 2: prioritize: you don't need every option for your army what you need is 1 to 2 hqs and 2 to 4 troop options (more if you play a hoard style army like guard, nids, orks). you do not need every book for the game, what you need is the core rule book and your faction's codex! 3: 3rd party hobby supplies: you don't need gw's brushes, tools (sprue cutting nippers a knife and a files for removing mold lines), glues, dice and measuring tapes! all of these 4: buy from stores other than gw: most gaming stores that stock gw stuff but aren't gw will do a percentage discount and this discount is increased if the store is predominantly online, you also don't have to but brand new miniatures 5: learn to conversion build: conversion building can be a good way to save money at the cost of increasing the amount of time you spend building the model but it can allow for you to do things like turning a 10 man squad of basic infantry into a 10 man squad of something else that would normally be sold in a 5 models per box unit. a good example of this is using multiples of the recruit edition starter set from 9th ed 40k (clarifying edition because gw 40k editions last 3 to 4 years regardless of world events) and using the 5 assault incessors to build bigger 10 man squads and turning multiples of the bladeguard lieutenant into a unit of blade guard (a space marine elites choice) or alternatively using that set to built up a decent force of necrons and turning the royal wardens from 5 boxes into 5 necron immortals using spare bits left over from building the necron warriors and some headphone cords or heat bent plastic card for the hose to the models back. i do plan on having tutorials on doing both conversions on my youtube channel this year but life is a mess for me right now 6: YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE BRAND NEW MODELS, BUY SECOND HAND MODELS AS OFTEN THEY WILL SAVE YOU MONEY 7: try and have a simple colour scheme for your models, in the long run it is a good idea not to need lots of paints for your models and if you are on a budget that is even more important 8: hobby addons: while having copies of the new campaign book or monthly magazine can be nice and will now and then teach you something you don't need them over having a decent strength force for the table top, you also don't need warhammer subscription services like warhammer plus! if you are a new player they aren't all that beneficial to you since they don't come with the rules for your army on them unless you buy the physical or digital copy of the book. for game lore, battle reports, painting tutorials and even animations you can find mountains of them on youtube for free! 9: terrain: LEARN TO BUILD YOUR OWN!: seriously terrain kits cost an utter fortune regardless who makes them and that money is much better spend on your core army for the game. there are countless youtube channels that do terrain tutorials 10: before playing against a new person it is a good idea to watch them play a bit first, this can give you an idea of the kind of player and bad experiences of playing the game can really hurt your hobby enthusiasm. beside you want to have fun and having your entire army tabled by the end of turn 2 isn't fun!

[@Noot_Official]

wow this is a whole ass script, you could make a video with this! appreciate the long and thought out advice!

[@guardsmen2945]

This is great but to me this is one of the main problems when someone says it's easy to get into Warhammer if you just do X and Y. Most people won't know right out the game about these money savers to get into Warhammer unless they know a guy in it or spent money already. Also your already doomed if your first knowledge of Warhammer is entering a physical store as they won't mention at any of these money savers and they will push you into buy/starting the latest thing and make you think your getting a good deal or the $300 you just spent was a great idea in getting into a game you have never played. Not to mention their current starter boxes for 40k (apart from the recruit edition) are over priced, lacking and are a terrible start for most new people into 40k.

[@jacobnoelle8428]

there is also tabletop simulator

[@deathtrooper199]

As I person that usually paints miniatures and vehicle models, I'd agree with buying different brands other than GW and Citadel branded tools.

[@kernsanders3973]

@@Noot_Official as well I dont see mentioned, invest in a 3D printer. They are really super cheap these days. My friend who has been into warhammer long since I left due to budget reasons, keeps up because he has a 3D printer. He says as well the community doesnt mind because everyone agrees the prices are crazy for official first hand models, not only that some of them will pay you to print some models for them. That and they are just happy the community is gaining more players. It's only when going into official tournaments which is a long way off from starting out new would 3D printing be a problem. Although there is official 3D prints now that one can get from GW affiliates. Also huge bonus on that is it will get you into 3D printing in general. That alone opens just so many doors aside from warhammer.

[@legand262]

I love 40k, the world, lore, characters, the entire aesthetic, how it all looks, feels and works together. Yet I have never played tabletop, it's too pricey and time consuming to be building armies when I've got nowhere/nobody to really play with either. So I read the books, play the video games and have a few of those Macfarlane figures and that suits me.

[@ghazskullmagoruktrakaproph887]

I would recommend getting into kill team it's Warhammer but smaller scale for example I play normal Warhammer and it has taken me several months and all of Summer to even collect the amount of models to have 2,000 points not even mentioning painting half my models are gray lol but if you get into kill team you buy a 100 to $200 box and boom you have everything you need to play two armies that range from 6 to 14 guys all the rules all the terrain so on and so forth it's also 100 times simpler since you only need to memorize the guys in your army you only need to memorize one unit not 50 if you want to get into the game I'd recommend killteam cuz it is really fun the normal game is normally painting models first playing second a lot of people just like to piant and show up to their friend's house and roll dice especially since you can play a thousand to 750-point games sorry for the rant though just a little advice if you want to get into it

[@DisobedientSpaceWhale]

Same, brother ✌️

[@KneeCapHill]

40k used to be a lot more like D&D in its early days. It was less focused on competitive play and more on fun narrative play. Often times you had rules for models that didnt even exist, now theres tens of models that dont have any. They are trying too hard to chase an everchanging metà. Its an endless balancing act of making new models OP to pump the sales and then balance everything else untill they nerf them to prepare for the next new model to pump. They think people buy models because of the rules and make the game unplayable because of it. Most people i know only care about their minis looking cool on the table, we dont need heroes from the lore, we make out own heroes when minis come out victorious from battles we play. A tau suit killing a mawlock in close combat in a lucky dice roll makes a far greater hero than any book can

[@stainfightingpower9402]

You have better script quality and pacing then many of the bigger youtubers I've seen, earned yourself a sub!

[@Noot_Official]

thank you!! you’re giving me wayyy too much credit, but i’ll take it anyways hahaha

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

A lesser known game is Epic 40k, it's an old variation of the game which uses 6mm scale with larger scale armies and vehicles, so you can easily have a block of 40 soldiers, a squadron of tanks, knights and titan walkers etc. It's very affordable, most prices are 40 troops for $10 or 3/4 for $10, the rule book is also a free PDF available online. The downsides are it no longer supported by GW officially, so models can be harder to find, but in the age of 3d printing there are people always around to provide models. Also customisation is limited due to their size, so that's something you have to think about.

[@buckweevil]

Epic was such a fun ruleset.

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

@@buckweevil there's still a community around, and 3rd party model makers for it, or people use 3d printers. We're still around

[@minoes5]

The point about putting codexes online/ reducing the overal price of models is a really good one. GW's profit margins are public info and they're veeery above average. So not only can they afford to do this without making a loss, I agree that in the long run this will in turn make them even more money. As a fairly new player myself I had interest in the hobby for years before starting on my first mini, the initial hurdle and money investment just seemed too large. Some of their store programs make the initial step easier but the price is still such a big turnoff, if anything it pushes the 3D industry even harder. Which is noticeable by the sheer amount of proxies, copies or gw inspired stl files online. Though it seems they might be experimenting a bit with it and def know it's an issue. Starter sets and the killteam rules being online for free are a good start.

[@donotinteract7851]

It's funny that as soon as people start talking about GW, folks turn into commies screeching about how much of a profit they turn.

[@minoes5]

@@donotinteract7851 Discussing company profits isn't directly related to communism, not at all. Nor is communism in any way a relevant theme here. That is a state of government, just like let's say capitalism, which also discusses company profits since it's important to any economy. Also "screeching", a one sentence mention of their relatively large profit margin can hardly be described as anything but simply that: a mention of it. Their profit is a tangible and statistical fact open to the public since they are a company. If you disagree with that feel free to, in you infinte wisdom just as you have demonstarted in this eloquent comment of yours, do your own research on this topic and mayhaps have a look at their company balance sheet.

[@donotinteract7851]

@@minoes5 wall of text lmao commie

[@Drazakhan_Dynasty]

I couldn't agree with you more. EVERY codex should be updated and put in line with eachother at each edition change, with any new units included with a tiemline of when to expect the new models to be released. And then FAQ'd/updated over the next five years, and any new units with models that are created in the meantime are sold with a datasheet, or you can download the datasheet into your digital version of the codex.

[@alfadasfire]

Thing is, yeah you can buy the rulebook and your army's codex but you still need something digital to see the FAQ! And at the end of an edition you still need another book (or 2) just to see some minor changes... Just put everything online and sell special edition codexes gw, it's not that hard. Also lower your prices a bit and more people can actually get into warhammer. Just making the prices higher is driving people away. Lowering them lures people in.

[@LeftClick]

How the HELL does this channel have only 1.7k subscribers? These were very poignant insights, very clearly and concisely delivered, and providing levity where needed. Well done!

[@Noot_Official]

Appreciate it man! If it makes you feel any better when I made this video I was my only subscriber, so the support has been much appreciated! Thanks for tuning in :)

[@richbob9155]

makes you wonder, especially considering there are lazy youtubers who put in half the effort but get lucky with the algorithm and have millions of subs. KZbin is not fair at all.

[@klug5916]

Solid, clear and understandable points. Thing is, GW changed a lot, from a simple company, led by passionnate people and made to a wide bunch of people, to corporate and businessmen considering only customers. Worse, with the crazyness of IP, they went crazy and cancelled passionnate (but free) content. And, as a stupid brand, they thought about the short time and maximize money now. The sculptors are amazing, but the brand clearly focuses on 2 things : space marines, because they are the most popular faction and quite obscure rules, made to limit open official tournaments and more or less justify the overprices or basic rulebooks with less content than before (just check 2nd edition Codex). True, they should follow most of your points, but that would be a gamble and long term strategy, so they won't do it. Sadly.

[@Bluecho4]

Highly recommend playing Grimdark Future from One Page Rules. It's got all the factions (plus a bunch extra) and the "feel" of 40K, without the complicated rules. Hardcore players might consider it simplistic (although there are optional rules to mitigate this somewhat), but it's a very efficient system that respects the time of its players. For a vast majority of people who just want to play with their toys in the time their schedule allows, Grimdark Future is more than sufficient. It's the version of 40K for people who want a life _outside_ 40K. (Plus, it just has loads of quality-of-life improvements. As it turns out, much of 40K's mechanics flow directly from clinging to ancient design decisions. And simplifying it to make the game faster also just makes the game more fun.)

[@NotsagF]

Second this, came back to Warhammer after 10 years and the current game is a dumpster fire, I love Warhammer and I was about to quit it again, but OPR saved it for me.

[@Repli_force]

OPR is the Reason i stayed within hobby, and still love it. Age of Fantasy and Grimdark Future are really good if you like playing casualy. Im currently on my 5th army for fantasy, and not planing On stoping soon

[@basedrex3736]

i was looking for this comment, very nice

[@RyanEdwardsVA]

Agreed. Grimdark Future is where it's at for the "Warhammer" in my life. I play other wargames too for different kinds of good times; if I want something more tactical, I'll go for F28: War Always Changes (which uses the 40K factions as well), or Corvus Belli's Infinity. But when it's time to just plain have fun with enough strategy to keep things interesting, but not so much to be over-taxing, it's Grimdark Future all the way.

[@isaiahaguilera7710]

Absolutely Big Recommend for OnePageRules Game Systems. So much easier to understand and it doesn't cost too much to get into. I tried getting in WH40K around the time the Admech Codex dropped for 9th Edition. I went to a GW store and purchased the big Starter Kit (Space Marines and Necrons) so I could teach my friends how to play which was like $200 and learned that the Units you weren't even enough standard game lol. I pushed on trying to learn the game but kept getting overwhelmed with all the stats and rules for said stats. I gave up after a month of trying understand everything. I learned about OnePageRules and was impressed by how much it was more simple than WH40K. Also the variety of armies in all of OPR systems is miles ahead of GWs stuff. I played about 10 games and have had fun in all of them. The Basic Rules is available online for free along with the Army Lists. The Full Rulebook is $5 online. There also free paper models available to print if you can't afford actual miniatures to use Also OnePageRules actually has an actually functioning army building app that just absolutely dunks on that sad excuse that GW made lol

[@LeoKators]

to be honest, I don't think the costs are as wild as often portrayed. - models: you can buy cheap second hand models online. Also, if you are into painting, you can really pour a loooooooot of time into painting the models (4-10h per model if you're into that). In this view, the price-per-fun-time spent is not that bad. - codex: search for free online pdfs - brushes: you can paint well with cheap synthetic brushes - paint: there is indeed a big entry cost, but once you have the paints, they last a long time. I've been painting for 3 years now and only recently finished my first paint pot. You can also buy cheaper paint brands.

[@the_average_canadian]

My counter to "removing rules makes the game too simple and boring" is the game "Grimdark Future" by OnePageRules. The core rules are one page, army "books" are one page, and the full expanded optional rulebook is under 30 pages including large diagrams. It's got plenty of strategic depth, very fun to play, and games take about half as long as a comparably sized 40k game. You can use your existing 40k models to play it, AND it's free! I highly encourage people to try it.

[@ghostparty2062]

I pretty much only play grimdark future and age of fantasy now. Its just so much easier to play.

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

Grimdark future is fun, but it doesn't scratch the same itch as 40k does for me. Maybe it's because I'm used to sinking multiple weeks into huge sprawling 4 way battles with 10k points per army but it isn't really as silly as 40k is and that makes me enjoy it less

[@kamiwriterleonardo6345]

I'll agree with ya in one thing: GW needs more races in 40k. I've discussed that with some other fans, but some say that "all the niches are already filled." No they're freaking not, and even if they are, more factions is still a win over just different flavors of dudes in armor or demons. I still have some ideas: 1 - Shaman Race of Dragon Humanoids. They do not have any tech whatsoever, but by the use of pure concentrated Psyker energy, are able to achieve space travel via portals and other shenanigans. They are isolationist and pacifist, only expanding to already vacant worlds, but will defend their territories with their life and soul, which is so powerful that it actually may or may not have a God represented in the warp. 2 - Space Pirates, probably a race of fish people (no the T'au are not fish people, they have hooves, if anything they are plains people) that has no interest in keeping territories, as much as they prefer hiding underneath other societies and pillaging from the greater empires. Their ships all look like the Spelljammers of D&D, giant Space Pirate Ships, and they have a classic pirate accent and slangs to boot. 3 - Surviving Rogue AI. Unlike the Necron, these are originated from humanity, but are not humanoid in any way, shape or form. As an AI, they are focused purely on efficiency, forgoing the unstable humanoid form for more stable body plans. They have learned from the war of the machines and the whole galactic war, and use this knowledge to hide and play hit and run tactics against the other factions, as well as mimicking their own tactics to use against other foes. They care not for life or mercy, and just seek to grow powerful enough to smash the imperium of mankind once and for all, as well as freeing the Void Dragon from Mars.

[@emperornapoleon6204]

Join the dark side… play fifth edition and print 3D models with your friends! I’ll admit I had a leg up in my youth, with GW prices still working their way up to the present highs and having an older generation of family members already heavily immersed in the game since the 90s. Even so, I haven’t bought an official kit from GW for about three+ years, and the last thing I did buy was my small but respectable Death army for AoS (though I do not play it often enough at all). All my recent 40k additions have come from 3D printing, as well as all of my bio-titans (I mainly play Tyranids, and lots of them). Further, I purchased a lot of what I have from gaming conventions in the past, pre built and painted for a fraction of the cost. There are ways to get into the game in a thrifty way, but it’s increasingly difficult to do so when engaging solely with GW. As for rules, all my family and friends have gone back to fifth in the last year. The codexes are cheap (I got three copies of the Nid dex, one as a gift, one for $12, and one for $2, no joke), and the rules are incredibly simple and streamlined. And of course, you never have to buy new rules again. We have just tampered with the base rules a little to add two or three elements of other editions we liked or some kind of intuitive effect, but there really is no need to. Played a 7500 point apocalypse game with my Nids against combined Eldar, Imperium, and Tau a month ago, and we did the whole thing in six hours. It’s glorious!

[@matthewbiro9689]

Great video! The biggest thing I took from this and it is common to a lot of new players I speak to is there is a real mental hurdle when it comes to understanding that it is an almost impossible task to have a good working knowledge of the rules for all the various factions and sub factions in 40k. This has its benefits (more flavour) and downsides. There are certainly things that GW need to and can to in order to address the accessibility of rules but there are limits to what is possible. As someone that started in 3rd edition, took a long break and came back in 8th I would say try not to get to hung up about what your opponent can do, ask questions because a courteous player will answer rules queries and focus on having fun as much as possible. At the end of the day the GW games systems may not be for you but if you cannot have fun then you are on to a loser from the start.

[@cryolocker0224]

“Even in service I am in debt” - Some space marine captain

[@wizardpepe7039]

The prices are definitely higher than they need to be. For example, a box of 10 cadians with various heads and special weapons is $50, but for $56 you can get 30 infantry with assorted weapons from a contemporary game focused on ww2 called Bolt Action from Warlord Games. For $60 you can get a single Leman Russ tank, in Bolt Action you can get 3 IS2s and a squad of infantry for $93. Ive painted a box from Bolt Action and 2000+ points of Guard and can tell you the quality is similar as well, actually i think the Warlord minis have less mold lines. GW is also a far larger company then Warlord but Warlord still gives you much better value. I still love my Guardsman though, just wish i wasnt being overcharged for them.

[@Noot_Official]

yeah fr Pepe, prices feel insane! playing guard, more specifically Krieg, is right up my alley but unfortunately i don’t have the ability to take out a 10K for 1000 points hahah

[@wizardpepe7039]

@@Noot_Official Krieg are unfortunately the most expensive ways of playing one of the 3 most expensive armies in one of the most expensive hobbies. Infantry squads are currently the only non Forgeworld Krieg miniatures you can buy and are an extra $10 over Cadians. If you want heavy weapons teams or command squads you have to buy it from forge world which is more expensive and lower quality then regular GW minis On the bright side guard is due for a massive overhaul and range refresh likely in the near future. Guard is one of the most played armies and some models were leaked a few months ago, and most of the other factions have recently been refreshed so guard is surely up next through process of elimination. Krieg is one of the fan favorite regiments so they'll probably get some new stuff too to make them at least playable but that's just speculation on my part. Someone else already recommended trying killteam and I'd like to add that Octarius has a squad of Krieg guardsman with Orks, terrain and the rules for the game. From what I've heard it's a lot more digestible then 40k itself but I've never played ether. I think it would be a good place to start at least so you don't overwhelm yourself and empty your wallet, but still get a taste of 40k

[@Noot_Official]

@@wizardpepe7039 haha yeah Krieg are insanely overpriced on forgeworld. My friend actually has the Octarius Box, so definitely going to check it out!

[@BlackSabbath628]

You used to be about to buy 20 imperial guardmen for 30 dollars. Now it's more than that for fewer models. They're meant to be a cannon fodder too, so you have this odd scenario where it's cheaper to get into an army like marines than an army that's supposed to be defined by how expendable it's soldiers are.

[@wizardpepe7039]

@@BlackSabbath628 There was a larger variety of regiments too, I believe the Cadians were the only box to have 20 and therefore the most popular leading to GW streamlining down to 2 regiments. I love my Cadians but more variety is sorely needed

[@novemberpierce206]

I miss Emperor TTS It was perhaps one of the most iconic internet series I always followed never played 40k once, but couldn't help with every fan made animation Until GW brought in WH+ and forced all producers to nuke their years of content

[@Noot_Official]

I unfortunately never watched Emperor TTS, but I've heard great things. Sad to see GW mess with the passion projects of its most dedicated fans :/

[@stove74]

@@Noot_Official it's still on youtube!

[@Noot_Official]

@@stove74 🏃🏻‍♂️💨 I know what I’ll be doing this afternoon

[@stove74]

@@Noot_Official Enjoy it, Bruva Alfabusa was doing the emperors work making the show. I've showed it to friends who have no idea what the fuck 40k is and they thought it was hilarious

[@antonioj700]

@@Noot_OfficialMWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA FESR THE INQUISITION

[@jameswickham4923]

The space marine chapters are really good examples of the rules bloat you were talking about specifically with stratagems. When i played from mid 8th edition to early ninth edition each chapter had it's own codex with a full 3-4 pages of stratagems on top of the universal stratagems and the space marine stratagems, and many of them had similar effects with different names. When i saw the expansion they made for chaos space marines where they each had some unique warlord traits, relics and a single page of stratagems all in one book, it struck me as to how much better designed that felt for the legions

[@mkstarstorm8822]

Interesting note about your idea of factions that could be combined, at some point most of them were. Grey Knights were part of Space Marines and Genestealer Cults were part of Tyranids in 2nd edition and Chaos was a singular army until relatively recently. IMO I don't have a problem with similar looking factions or sub-factions becoming there own army and it generaly happens when there is enough demand for it (like separating daemons and chaos marines). Personaly I would like to see Kroot expanded beyond Tau auxiliaries and into their own army (there is some great fan-made stuff out there for kroot based proxies for other armies).

[@dd11111]

I'd say this is a solid take. Although I think I disagree with the rules argument. However thats becuase I would rather see a return of the more tactics and positioning based rules akin to the old, pre-8th edition ones. (Pinning, fleeing troops, flamethrower templates, and the side you hit a vehicle from mattering.) As I have found that the game is packed with rules based more on buffs, special abilities and synergies. TL:DR: There ARE a whole lot of rules, more army rules than core. Most focused on "out maths-ing" your opponent. Than "out tactics-ing" them. I would like to see both switched/reversed.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Heresy is a lot better rules-wise

[@dd11111]

@@HistoritorJimaldus so I've heard. But I play Guard...and there are no xenos. (To my knowlege.)

[@deaconlasagna8570]

i have only ever played 3rd and 4th, but it definitely seems like modern 40k is much less about tactics and more about building lists centered around specific combos, it almost feels like a TCG.

[@dd11111]

@@deaconlasagna8570 "it almost feels like a TCG" I think you've hit the nail on the head there, thats a great description!

[@rocksteadyska6933]

Brilliant script, brilliant pacing, explained your topics without starting to yammer, great memes without being cringe. Great Vid Noot, good things are going to happen to your channel 👍

[@Noot_Official]

much appreciated broski :)

[@CaptainPrincess]

ay! The shrek ork in your thumbnail! I made that! :D It warms my heart to see him out in the wild

[@Noot_Official]

good shit bro! shit was perfect, as soon as i saw it i knew i needed to use it for the thumbnail haha

[@CaptainPrincess]

@@Noot_Official let warboss panzershrek spread far and wide, my crowning achievement

[@NineTailedFiend]

"Without knowing what the production costs are" in comparison to the price. Allow me to blow your mind. It is standard protocol for games workshop employees to allow thefts without stepping in to risk harm, and only inform local law enforcement, as, the hard facts; the costs of the box, art, wrapping, and similar manufacturing expenses exceed that of the plastic that sits within said boxes. Let that sink in for a while. You're welcome. :)

[@Noot_Official]

Damn bro that's a pretty insane fact goddamn. Thank you for sharing this I had no idea!

[@NineTailedFiend]

@@Noot_Official Yeeeeeep. It's literally pocket change in the more basic kits, maybe a few bucks in others, perhaps under $10 for the more specialized kits such as the Shard of the Void dragon. Their profit margins are absolutely mind blowing, but as large of a company as they are, with the number of employees, on top of the commissions for art, sculpts, and design, it does tend to all get overlooked. But what is certain; so long as their kits sell consistently, they are making bank.

[@DarksteelPenguin]

@@NineTailedFiend Fun fact, the Void Dragon sprues have as much plastic as the Necron warriors sprues (and are the same size). He sits in a box twice as tall (and twice as expensive) only for marketing reasons.

[@chetmanley1885]

I'm not dickriding GW here, they definately over charge, you also have to factor in the mold though. Those things cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, plus all the time the designers put in, it's not just the materials cost (which is miniscule). Necron Warriors and a C'Tan shard having the same amount of plastic should make them cost the same in theory. But given a player might buy 3 to 6 squads of warriors but only 1 shard, you've got to recoup the cost of the mold somehow. Bottom line is they're still too expensive though, even with these other considerations.

[@Muukip]

@@DarksteelPenguin Well they probably sell less Void Dragons than Necron Warriors boxes, so there's an economy of scale to consider there. But there's no doubt that GW's profit margins are enormous.

[@MichaelShelleysmi]

What's wild is that GW has addressed a lot of these concerns with 10th edition

[@sparkyspinz9897]

Not saying your wrong as I have no idea but I kinda doubt it

[@risefromyourrave680]

As a long time Warhammer player (15 years maybe?) Yeah you're pretty much spot on, especially with the rule books and codexes, it's ridiculous that you can buy a brand new codex on the day of release and a week later its out of date. I actually think the most recent Ork codex was out of date before the book went sale. I would throw so much money at a decent app with all the books that gets automatically updated

[@Supahpowahnerd890]

This is why most of my time, effort, and money is spent on Black Library material and used codices. I'm more interested in the worldbuilding and characters than the collecting/wargaming aspect. I'm a Forever GM and my players also love the 40k setting but I usually use a less crunchy, more fiction-forward system along the lines of PbtA. There are a lot of systems in that philosophy excellent for chivalric romance, Piecraftian warfare, urban dystopia, the obvious post-apocalyptic genre, and more. One campaign was based on Masks, the players being vigilantes in an underhive, another was based on The Regiment, the players being guardsmen on a world besieged by Tyranids, a particularly fun one used Free From the Yoke with the players being low nobles in a Knight World abruptly cut off from the Imperium by a Warp storm.

[@greaterpainter7996]

As someone whose been playing for like 20 or so years, you hit the nail on the head with every point. I think the problem is the company has gone public so now they're beholden to shareholders to make more money year after year which shifts the focus to squeezing money out of their fans however they can. GW has always been a notoriously shitty company. The relationship between them and their customers is like an abusive marriage. They've currently adopted FOMO tactics to get you to spend more ey on things you normally wouldn't and I'm just burnt out with it all at this point. I assume if they don't adapt to the digital market they will go under. Fortunately it's my belief that Warhammer doesn't need GW, the fans will keep it alive.

[@alecmiller5296]

Warhammer definitely doesn’t need that bloated corpse gw it’s the community that keeps it alive not those losers

[@nickglink]

Great video! I am also pretty new to 40k and have played like actual 2 games but I watch a lot of matches for DiceCheck. It help me learn but then people would do stuff and I would have to go read codexs for like 45 mins just to understand why they could or couldn't do something. Also as a long time MTG player I see alot of factions have the same stuff but just call it something different and just think to myself "that could have been less confusing if it was just a Keyword or something". Keep up the work man this was a really quality video!

[@tizarrigor4558]

1. Kepp it up man, good stuff. 2. I had my falling out with 40k recently and am working on my AoS stuff. The Comparison was 1 game of each as a total beginner and i had way more fun with AoS than 40k, even though i lost. And in the 40k game i was forced to play with faction rules, despite absolutely not knowing how to basically do half the stuff, so anouther contra point for 40k in my books. 3. AoS has overall nicer models, like you said, and i got really excited that they made a new Character for my Army, that being the Kharadron Overlords. Anyways, hope you do more stuff like that.

[@KneeCapHill]

The rules bloat has 1 easy fix. Make competitive rules separate from narrative rules. Have a rule set for sweaty tryhards to duke out in tournaments and have a more fluffy, perhaps less balanced, rule set for people who just want to play with their war dollies without having 3 open box on the table to crossreference the cire, character and special rules

[@Cainlce5]

The joke is they charge for the price of a finished product but sell you something you have to cut glue paint yourself.

[@Mandrewlochner]

I would pay less money for prepainted. I don't want to have to clean and rinse someone else's paint job off because they don't do it as good as me, how I like it. If you think there is more value in prepainted models, you're missing the point of the hobby. Sorry to say, 40k is a game attached to a hobby. The game is largely incidental to even the 40k-specific side of the hobby.

[@SlayerPDX]

Ok you don't like models. You like TOYS

[@Kilometoru]

10 minutes that felt like 20 minutes in a goodway! Solid editing and BGM choices, subbed

[@DP-dd6hl]

My advice if you're getting into this start with something small where you can still play games like Kill Team for example, literally 1 box of minis. Also limit yourself to one faction. People get sucked into the latest release or meta so end up with multiple forces non all painted or even with enough units for a larger tournament capable entry etc. All factions have their advantages and disadvantages. And have their day in the sun when GW drops a new rule book for them. So go for something that looks cool for you, maybe grab a novel or and and read some stories on some characters and factions so you get a feel for their lore etc. Then you can make a well informed decision on not waste your time and money.

[@MadGlad-Dummy]

That’s actually very good advice I’d finally after 5 or 6 years of my older brother usually getting into the hobby & bringing me along with a army of my own dipped my toes into the hobby & my first real thing I got was the new Chaos codex & apparently we already had enough daemons of Tzeentch we just need Karios Fateweaver for the last bit of power points (we play up to 50 power) & sorry thought I’d share my story about how long I was in this hobby because of my older brother he works hard & paints pretty good wish I had his skills

[@vicegt]

Also new to the franchise. I like learning about the obscure xenos in warhammer.

[@Noot_Official]

same!

[@cursivejones5648]

You've got a strong grasp on the problems, there's always been a marine bias and people have always been disgruntled about it ( see 2010s era dakkadakka forum posts malding about how horus heresy and badab war don't deserve the absolute heaps of content they received because X and Y xenos is cooler. Now people want female space marines even though sisters of battle exist, there's a lot of goobers in this community ) but I learned to embrace it. As you said, marines are really fucking cool, and the deeper you dive into them, the more you realize how cool they are. The absolute level of detail, edginess, goofiness, and complexity found in 2010s Warhammer always caught my eye in a way Star Wars could never do for me. Chapters like the Red Scorpions, which are a bunch of elitist retards that distrust normal humans so much that they refuse to work with them and created a whole ass land raider modification OUT of that refusal to work with guard artillery. They also ditch guard mid-conflict constantly when the tide is turned on them. The Space Sharks, which are my favorite bulldog helmet, pale skinned, chain axe wielding stealthy psychos with a chapter master ( Tybereos the Red Wake ) equipped with giant harpoon lightning claws with underbarrel chainfists, and the Minotaurs, which are just Loyalist Iron Warriors but ALSO melee monsters and their chapter master is also a unkillable schizophrenic behemoth named Asterion Moloc that wields a ancient custodes spear and everytime he dies just comes back like nothing happened. THAT'S the good space marines, and although I still model the old tiny ones, Games Workshop doubled down on the marine marmalade with Primaris. No one asked for primaris, the only thing the community wanted in a similar vain was scaled up marines of what already existed. Then started a downward spiral of the monopose models, reduced loadouts, a 180 in artstyle from gothic design and distinct shapes to what is basically tau space marines with grav tanks and piggybacking off old model designs like the mk4 helmet. Not saying new marines can't have it, its just that ALL of them do without upgrade sprues. Originality is on empty for games workshop, which is why they're digging up dead factions like squats and navy, which they gave fuck all about before. Everyone has their opinions on whos fault it is, if they think there's a problem at all. It's certainly not the game store owners, local or GW alike, they're usually great people, it can be drawn to middle management and stockholders having a circlejerk over 20194% profit margin plastic toys (exaggeration), because between whales and dad bod minimum wage white knights, Games Workshop won't die 3 life times from now. The people fear mongering them declining only do it for views, 3D printing has a long way to go in that regard with being accessible, but 40k could be so much better, the mouthy types are right about that much. Jamison Workshops is starting to act better, but it's already too soured for me, and they'll just fall back into their same habits because that's how they are. It ties back to making your own deductions as you've done really well, not siding with either party. I'll stick to homebrew kill team with my ohio friends new to warhammer across the country, this is just a art hobby for me now. The state of the game is what every complaint in 7e was, sensory overload. Make traitor guard, corsairs, and exodites armies again. Make more xenos stuff that isn't resin stuff into forgeworld. Oh yeah, forgeworld. You should look their lineage, PDFs of the old imperial armor books are easy to find online. Guard, Tyranids, D/Eldar, Orks. All of them had very detailed expansions in units, stuck in resin. There's a sort of struggle for that much needed variety from forgeworld, but between the material being hard to work with, disgustingly overpriced, and given the label of "power gamey" by fa/tg/uys and sigmarxism types ( when you can just house rule them weaker or not use them instead of writing college thesis's on losing to a toy, you retards ) they've fallen by the way side. Maybe one day games workshop will not eat dogshit for breakfast lunch and dinner and breath it in our faces. Shoutout to the artists at games workshop who do the hobby great and still amazing pieces, the quality hasn't waned at all there. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[@cursivejones5648]

@@chiptuna8292 ok idc lol

[@cursivejones5648]

@@chiptuna8292 no you just said "dud, ave u evr eard of a aragraph reak? 🤓" instead of, "could you add paragraph breaks?". Thank you for the contribution, though. Still dont care bout grammar on the internet.

[@cursivejones5648]

@@chiptuna8292 the joke was there was no paragraph break, what?

[@cursivejones5648]

@@chiptuna8292 bro tldr you deffie use reddit stay there man you just repeated what I said about the break joke 💀

[@slacesontheaegislash5865]

@@cursivejones5648 bruh. literal smoothbrain cant even read something if its broken into paragraphs. if anything needs a tldr its ur monstrous dogturd of a post.

[@drewchilds3662]

This aged nicely, with the introduction of 10th edition, GW says they will address the rule bloat and other items mentioned in this video. Only time will tell if that is true though.

[@rockkiller124]

I couldn't agree more with the fact that lowering the prices which will bring more customers in general

[@thewallachianbard6975]

Also encouraging fan content and community

[@MissZencefil]

great video, as a player who started at 5th edition 40k, I agree with all of your points.

[@Tehstampede]

If GW was smart (they are not) they would make it so getting into small games of 40k cost as much as a single videogame. From what I've read, GW's profit margins on model kits is somewhere around 53%, which is absurd to me. I understand that companies need to make money, but GW is making money at the cost of pricing a lot of people out of the game that would have otherwise given it a try. Right now, to buy a single HQ model and 2 bare minimum squads of Troops, you're looking at $35+$60+$60. If you want the core rulebook, that's another $60, and if you want the army book for your specific faction, that's another $60. If you want to use GW's list building app, that's $7/month. So right out the gate you're dropping $275 plus the subscription if you go for that, JUST to dip your toe into the game.

[@nea3875]

People that have worked for the company said that they were told not to chase people stealing product because the models inside were cheaper than the box they were in

[@ghazskullmagoruktrakaproph887]

Yeah the models are very cheap but the molds are around $100,000 for one mold also most companies say that to their employees why risk your life over something that is insured

[@sawysauce1256]

Yeah the price of the models is the biggest turn off. You can buy a fully painted color accurate foot tall Gundam model kit for 60$ or you can buy ten 3 inch soldier THAT YOU ARE FORCED TO PAINT for 60$. If you’re looking for an affordable plastic hobby that’s exciting and rewarding it’s really a no brainer.

[@SlayerPDX]

You didn't buy a model. You bought a prepainted 60 dollar toy. With warhammer I can make them look however the hell I want... like a REAL model.

[@pterojacktylus2475]

For someone new to KZbin you have a knack for combining the calm chilled out voice to listen to while still keeping my adhd mind from wandering off to other things! Good work great video and keep it up!

[@Noot_Official]

Ty! Really appreciate it

[@MrEWaKid]

GW does overprice their stuff. Getting into any other minis game is gonna be about a quarter of the cost of getting a 40k army and will generally have a way better rules system and just be an overall more positive experience. 40k is a trap.

[@andrewlaidlaw7975]

Out of what what vids I've seen about GW's pricing I suspect they make somewhere in the region of 30% to 40% profit on their products, but then again one of the main put off that gets me is the amount of rules changes for new models & where applicable new army's that come out. Like they released whatever named special character 1 month they'd release the model with rules to play with it with the emphasis to try & get the competitive/tournament players to buy said model & army that goes with it only to no surprise 2 to 3 month later change the rules/points cost of the special character due to the release of new leader model of the opposing army & so the never ending release & rules change continues.

[@capus2000]

I think there's been a mistake. You mentioned some sort of "Astra Militarum" but you showed pictures of the Imperial Guard. Don't know who those other guys are. Simple mistake. In all seriousness it's refreshing to see someone new is coming to the same conclusions as everyone else. Though I must partially disagree with you on the rules bit. The game relatively recently had a massive rules simplification in 8th edition. 8th was very healthy for the game at the time, but it ended up being a double edge sword. You no longer had to go check the main rule book to find the source of a reference of a reference of a rule, but you also no longer had the tactical mechanics of vehicle facing or firing arcs. Blast templates and scatter dice were gone and artillery was boring now because of it. We gained simplicity at the cost of both depth of tactics and immersion.

[@Noot_Official]

hahhaa well shit u got me. but yeah I’m glad to hear things are getting a bit more simple, but at the same time I hope they can still strike a nice balance for older more experienced players. Most of my points for the rules come from the perspective of someone who’s first getting into it, and at least for me, even now in 9th, things are super overwhelming. Thanks for the feedback tho, and hope to see you in the comments in the future!

[@capus2000]

@@Noot_Official I can see why you would feel that way. A lot of the rules are scattered in a lot of different places. I think if they just collected everything together it would dispell some of the illusions of complexity caused by the sheer annoyance of needing 5 or so books just to play the game.

[@emperornapoleon6204]

I think fifth edition does a much better job of capturing the tactical elements while still cutting way down on the rules as compared to ninth, or for an example with similar game pattern, seventh. But your point is well taken.

[@rasmuslaurila7611]

So, from a relatively veteran 40K player, when starting honestly it costs at least a hundo or so to buy a combat patrol, wich to be clear, is tbe cheapest way to get an any sort of functional army. You also need clippers, a hobby knife and glue wich you always buy elsewhere (tbh painting is optional and better not to if you might need to sell the army) After these, you can just skip the codexes and use wahapedia and other such sites.🏴‍☠️ Last but not least, there is always the option of playing killteam or deadzone if you like skirmish games, Onepagerules and warpath for army games.

[@sponge5196]

One Page Rules for the win!

[@settlersam]

So I’m also new to the warhammer hobby, and I’ve been loving kill team. Only needing 1-2 boxes of models so it’s a lot more affordable.

[@Noot_Official]

I keep hearing about Kill Team, and am super eager to check it out!

[@settlersam]

@@Noot_Official I recommend it to almost ever one that will hear me out.

[@chetmanley1885]

It's a good game that's more balanced than 40K, easier to learn, quicker to play and financially more accessible. The Kill Team starter set costs less than buying the two kits inside separately, plus is has the tools, tokens, some terrain and a light version of the rules. Buy it at a discount and you're golden.

[@knightofcaliban146]

Brother, I'm glad that KZbin has graced my feed with your channel. Keep it up!

[@Noot_Official]

ah ur too kind, thank you!

[@duppyman9025]

3 Major barriers 1) Price.... O my gosh, it's so expensive it hurts! and that doesn't even tell the whole story 2) Over bloated rules and changes to those rules nearly every week..... New editions, FAQ's, Dataslate, Chapter approved and random Tuesday morning changes..... "I think I have a headache" 3) The company itself, after spending thousands of £'s over years I get told by GW "I wont be missed" GW seem as if they wont an elite group of customers and the rest of us go jump, their kind of one step away from chasing Fans down the street with pitchforks screaming "Go and play 'Snakes and Ladders' you peasants"

[@MrOmarabdulhadi]

the new Kill team kinda solves most if not all of these problems, I highly recommend it tbh

[@Noot_Official]

Have heard a lot of people recommend it! I'll definitely check it out

[@DisobedientSpaceWhale]

It's just too expensive. End of story. I read the fiction, play the video games and even buy the McFarlane and JoyToy figures, and have been to Warhammer World 3 times, but I have absolutely no desire to push miniatures around a table 🥱 and even less desire to spend time painting them, probably to a mediocre standard. I've dabbled in Games Workshop stuff since the mid nineties but they priced me out from getting too involved. Lucky me, because I enjoy the lore but have no need for miniatures so I'm golden (throne) i suppose 💰

[@cormack6492]

God I missed your videos the level of quality you have for such a small channel is phenomenal.

[@Noot_Official]

Thanks dawg, really means a lot!

[@AtheAetheling]

Good video! Although in terms of Age of Sigmar I think it has the opposite problem to 40k. Almost everything is outlandish and if you want simple dudes in armour and you don’t like the storm cast, you’re kinda stuck right now. It badly needs a regular human faction or two like the old world setting had.

[@NapGod]

100% agreed. I'm still huffing hopium waiting for a Dawnbringer Crusade faction. Gods are cool and all, but I want some sword and board doods with musket guns and funny hats.

[@matt6387]

Dudes in armor is also in slaves to darkness, iron jawz and khorne. 4 of the factions fit this bill anymore and it would just be 40k again. AOS is also way more fun to play.

[@NapGod]

@@matt6387 I think they meant like Brettonian knights and Empire shit. Basically, a refresh and new additions to the Cities range. "People in Armor" isn't the issue. "People in the exact same power armor but painted different colors" is the issue. SCE, StD, IJ, and half of Khorne are not examples of that issue. I think we're all on the same page that AoS is a far better game compared to 40k.

[@AtheAetheling]

@@NapGod Exactly so.

[@AtheAetheling]

@@matt6387 I meant normal humans; knights, pikemen, etc.

[@jonrodriguez23]

been playing 40k for 15 years your observations are valid

[@megan00b8]

There seems to be a split on the rules thing. Many people, especially new players find the game very complex and hard to get into because of it. Meanwhile others, especially people who have played older editions which were even more complex find the current editions to be too simple and dumbed down compared to what the game used to be. I am a newbie for sure, but the main draw of the game for me is how overcomplicated it is, but I've never played the older editions so I'm not honestly sure whether I stand on the side of the game being fine or needing some extra rules just to add that bit of mess.

[@vankraken5490]

The older editions had far higher percentage of its rules in the core ruleset which every codex utilized. Not only does it make the game less complex (still have the intial learning curve but once you learn what Deep Strike, Feel No Pain, Relentless, Melta, etc is, it doesn't matter if you see the rule on an Eldar, Tau, Ork, Space Marine, or whatever unit as it does the same thing) but it makes it easier to design codexes around these mechanics instead of having the bulk of the game mechanics being unique to each codex. Old editions had a lot of bloat and some fairly redundant rules and could of made due with some refinements. GW with going into 8th cut the core rules down the bone which left no room for growing the game without turning into codex bloat and by extension rapid power creep.

[@mintw4241]

The main difference is that rules used to be more complex but more universal, with cross-faction weapon stats and universal keywords and rules, rather than every gun working differently in every faction supplemented by a smorgasbord of unique faction special rules and with a selection of 20-30 strategems that are highly situational and also unique… for every faction in the game

[@mintw4241]

So when you understood your own army you used to be halfway to understanding every army in the game.

[@juzzapm3252]

Wow! Seeing that this is only your 4th video I am amazed!!! Being that you’re so new if you’ve still got ways to go im hooked, great channel!

[@Noot_Official]

Thank you bro!

[@StormWildSpace]

Two words... KILL TEAM

[@motihill2844]

I started playing online on tabletop sim using wahapedia and battle scribe. It only costed me $20. Only after I beat a veteran player did I decide to start physically collecting minis.

[@haloman001]

I’ll be honest I get the physical copies of the rules because they don’t break if you beam someone in the head with them. Unlike my precious minis

[@Noot_Official]

good point, but imma be real these fists are far cheaper than those codexes

[@sabius6]

Firstly, great video! All fair points but from an experienced player and collector I have some counter arguments for discussion, but again I love your points :) Cost - GW release value boxes all the time that are a great efficient way to enter the hobby - There are also many FB Groups that sell 2nd hand unpainted/unassembled/painted etc armies for a fraction of the price. This is were I started and saved a lot of money Rules - Yes, there is a lot of rules and it can seem overwhelming, however, this learning curve is actually something I enjoy doing and figuring out. I've just finished playing in my first tournament with the offical rules and although I didn't win any matches I thoroughly enjoyed every game and meeting people in the hobby. This was an experience I thoroughly enjoyed and can definitely say I'm 'hooked' and realised I have so much more to learn rules wise. Access Yes, accessibility is a very tricky thing and GW charge a lot as they have some very loyal players and I don't think they're that interested in expanding too fast TBH. They had a huge spike during covid of sales which I dare say is people buying and painting. There is a few tiers of people that are involved in the hobby; a) enjoy watching lore videos and reading the books, and vicariously tap into the hobby from afar b) people that have some minis and paint c) people who have some minis and watch people who play but don't play themselves or play very little d) people who actually play Each of these steps are major steps into the hobby in my opinion as to really get established with Grand Tournament rules you need a battle ready painted army or you're already down 10 points if your opponent has a painted army. I just want to touch on one thing as I don't think you've reached this level in the hobby and that is... VALUE. - Yes, the cost, learning the rules and everything else before you actually start playing is a lot to invest in, but the key thing here is that I've gotten 1,000s of hours of painting, playing, assembling, discussing etc around this hobby by being a part of it. Understandably, like most things, you need to spend time on it to get good at it, but looking at the depth of involvement you can go to (above's A to D) there is a substantial return on what you pay in my opinion. Painting alone can be a quick exercise or you can spend days or weeks on model/squad making them look amazing and enjoy the process thoroughly. - I do not enjoy video games, but enjoy gaming. D&D and Warhammer have been a part of my life from when I was young. Warhammer 2nd edition was something we played as kids and back then it was still bloody expensive and we had metal minis. There is a particular mindfulness and different level of satisfaction about doing this hobby that you'll never achieve through Video games and it's one of those things that you don't know unless you know kind of thing. It's like someone asking you what playing D&D is like, you just have to tell them "roll up a character and just get involved and you'll see how fun it can be" Anyway, your video got me super inspired to write this, I hope your journey turns out to be an awesome one. I really enjoyed your video and your point of view on the hobby. Keep up the good work, I hope you do more in this space in future. Happy wargaming. :)

[@hope121107]

Congratulations you just kicked the same dead horse that we’ve all been kicking for years. All your points are valid and it is just too bad that games workshop will not listen to its fans.

[@Noot_Official]

Heard this is unfortunately the case from some other people as well, but ay I used to be a soccer player, kicking is what I do lmao.

[@hope121107]

@@Noot_Official Hey keep kicking it. Maybe one day they will hear us yelling! Your doing good work.

[@ThatGuyMrman]

Getting into this game is so expensive! I got into right before covid and was amazed just how expensive it was! However, I was lucky and was given 4 armies from one of my buddies who had been playing for years. I’d say for new players join a group of local people who play because they’re very passionate about it and want new people to play with and will often help you get started or help you find things on eBay! Great video as well you’ve earned a subscriber:)

[@TheTexasDice]

The reason why Age of Sigmar has frequent and diverse Updates, is because the system failed to create a Posterboy. The Stormcast Eternals SUCK and not only the old guard but a majority of the new players despise them. So GW actually has to put effort in everywhere, instead of milking their one, best selling army.

[@seangallagher9435]

The main issues with the rules is that so many factions have special rules that are named differently but do the same thing, and that there are simply too many special things. Instead of giving space marines a better armor stat, they have the special rule armor of contempt, which is just an ability that complicates the already simple armor rule

[@nekrataali]

Around 4th. Edition, they started experimenting with Universal Special Rules, then switched over to USRs completely in 5th. Khorne Berserker chain axes and Ork choppas do the same thing, so why have two completely separate rules? Then by the end of 5th. they just went "LMAO" and went back to having special rules upon special rules. They're back to where they were in Rogue Trader where rules may as well not have names because they all have slightly different functions.

[@Kingofdragons117]

This is why I choose Battletech. Sure classic battletech has a lot of book keeping, but the Alpha Strike game mode is quicker and a bit easier to learn. Plus the models are much cheaper.

[@aydengartenlaub]

I tried reading up on the lore for Battletech and looking at the minis, and quite frankly it doesn’t interest me

[@HARMstudio6]

Earned a sub. Keep it up man. Video quality is that of a much bigger chance.

[@liammorgan1413]

In between raising costs in anticipation for inflation and marking up their plastic model kits based on their in-game value, GW largely betrays their own insistence that they are a miniatures company first. Compare and contrast that to Warlord Games, Victrix Miniatures, Team Yankee, and several other similar companies whose model lines are just as likely to be used in scale model dioramas not intended for gameplay (admittedly, much of that is because they have historical miniature ranges and thus can appeal to more than just tabletop gamers - I've even seen some used in museum displays).

[@Silent_Shadow]

People will spend hundreds of dollars if not thousands on 1 single video game. So I don't think its crazy expensive. But your video is quality. Cheers! I got my first ever starter armies and starter paint set for $130. And I have warhammer premium for 5 bucks so I have all the codexs.

[@cthulhufhtagn2483]

All of these points are valid, but _god_ I hate the main character complex Space Marines have. It's not just that most of the models are Space Marines, it's that most of the _new_ models are Space Marines. People rejoice when a different faction gets even an update to an old model - god forbid a new one - but the Space Marines get entire new units a few times a year. And the Space Marines are just mechanically _better._ I got the Leviathan Box - a set released when 10th Edition came out that includes an army of Space Marines and an army of tyranids - so that I could finish off my tyranid army. The tyranid army that comes with the box has only the most minimal ability to cause crits or rerolls, it has only one unit that can be led (and that unit sucks ass), it has no meaningful anti-armor, and it doesn't really have a focus as an army. For the uninitiated in 40k, all of those things are quite important to an army being able to actually win games. It's mostly a pile of units that don't really synergize and sometimes work against one another. The Space Marines, on the other hand, often have crits and rerolls built _into their stat blocks_ - not to mention their army ability, which just grants rerolls for free - has multiple units that can be led in multiple configurations depending on how you want your army to work, it has powerful anti-armor in the form of the Ballistus Dreadnought, and while I haven't given it enough of a test run to properly tell, it seems like it excels at ranged combat while bringing in its melee combatants where they're needed. It's just such a ridiculous amount of mechanical bias towards one side of the box - they want the Space Marines to win, so they stack the odds so far in their favor that you'd have to be actively trying _not_ to win. And I think that really sums up how other non-Marine factions are treated through the game as a whole - begrudgingly given a spotlight, but always needing to have a higher skill threshold than the Marines and never truly being mechanically equal to them.

[@JachymorDota]

The Starter vor 40k skirmish game costs more than entire armies from other games. If you are on a tight budget, by the time you have an army ready there is already a new edition, one unit softbanned and another not even in the book anymore. GW has been compared to the likes of EA, where "recurrent User spending" is the main goal of the company. And no, not just buying new models, but rebuying books, rules and boxes You don't need but there is one (1) new model in there that'll be released seperately a year later maybe If at all.

[@SillyGnome]

Oh the Guard army I’d buy if I ever won the lottery

[@Noot_Official]

True and real 🫡 (3D printing is a really good alternative for this though)

[@metallicadead]

The reason why AoS is so "diverse" in their factions is almost completely artificial. They just took Warhammer Fantasy Battles factions and cut them up into smaller and smaller sub factions. A slayer was just a dwarf unit, now they’re an entire faction with one single defining trait. They’re basically caricatures of previously well fleshed out larger factions. To make a parallel with 40k, it would be like if every single space marine chapter, eldar craftworld, guard regiment and Tau sept were considered factions of their own. It’s artificial bloat for the sake of it.

[@Noot_Official]

Wasn’t aware of this, but this is a good point! I think 40K could probably benefit from doing this to a degree as well though, at least I think. Specific models and stuff for specific sub factions would definitely be cool, but maybe it comes with problems i’m not considering

[@metallicadead]

@@Noot_Official There already are specific models for subfactions. Commander Shadowsun for the Tau is one of them. The Eldar Harlequins, several Necron Commander units and the various space marines chapter specific minis like Tor Garadon. The main problem comes from the scale of the thing, AoS is set in a Dark Fantasy world, which is well defined in terms of its physical limits. 40k is a whole ass galaxy, so there is zero limit on how many factions there could be. And with the massively bloated rules of 40k, that means there would be a monstrous amount of books. Oh and about your point of making codices available digitally, they tried that with their app, and it is an absolute pile of trash. Never ask a business depending on physical products to put their content on websites or apps, cuz they will invariably cut way too many corners and it will suck ass.

[@metallicadead]

@@Noot_Official Oh also, about your question in the video on how much minis do cost really. I can give you a lengthy explanation if you really want to, but as a shortcut: Games Workshop are a multibillion dollar company making several hundred million dollars every year. Their official reports tells us that miniatures make up about 75-80% of their revenue. You make the deductions from here my friend lol.

[@DarksteelPenguin]

AoS has more factions, that are more different from each other, but each faction has a lot less depth and internal variety. Some of their armies only have 5 different units! If Drukhari were in AoS, they would be three different factions, but the amount of fluff, rules and models would be the same.

[@taudad5009]

Been in the hobby for 1.5 decades now and you hit every major issue I've had with the hobby. I play T'au (obviously) but when I started it was rare to play someone else who wasn't a space marine. With the addition of the Leagues of Votann I feel like GW is finally starting to expand their roster, but it still has a ways to go. My best advice is to find yourself a regular gaming group of 2-5 friends and to focus on having fun, story driven games rather than playing overly complicated slogs with strangers. Great work with this video, I hope that 40k brings you as much joy as it's brought me!

[@dragon200ism]

I think the 3D printer will force GW to rethink there business model in the coming years. The other rules as annoying as they are could be circumvented if it was easier to get people in to the game without buying a small country GDP. Not to mention this will allow people to build army's that GW has never expanded or only mentioned in lore or are fan made. Yeah GWs models may look better (for now) but they sure don't let me build Farseer Lofn to lead a human and Eldar combined forces. I think at first GW will do what it has always done, attempt to crackdown on copyright laws and ban print blueprints but that will limited affects in the long run. Like I can spend 200 dollars on space marines or like 70 dollars on materials and print out armoured space soldiers. The decisions easy.

[@Noot_Official]

exactlyyy, no way they can keep this up

[@samrux5104]

I started getting into warhammer last year. Picked and bought an army, painted it, then when and played. I played too matches and my brain exploded from the information I had to know , even after months of prep. It saddens me, for these reasons that you’ve stated I have t played in months. Hopefully in the next editon they offer simple rules , even if that way of playing is like optional or something , I think it would make the game a lot more fun for new players like myself.

[@Matwho]

I first played when i was 9, now i am 38 years old. There are so many issues with the game, but money and rules are for sure the worst 2. GW's allergic reaction to anything digital is what finally killed it for me, I still play but havent gone by their rules in about a year now

[@beemerwalker5945]

You did very good for being a newer channel. Keep it up. If you want this as a job just remeber this is a Career that build up over time. You just gotta keep up at it.

[@Aki777craft]

Age of sigmar is better and more streamlined. In 40K it’s easier to be cheated and thus give new players a bad experience

[@Noot_Official]

really interested to try out AoS. If I ever do i’ll make a video on it

[@georgekerscher5355]

There is an argument to be made that the cost of plastic mini production is expensive, though this is really only true when looking at the design and production of the plastic injection moulds for the models, given that's where the large bulk of the costs lie. Producing the kits after the injection moulds are created isn't really expensive especially given the price of the plastic used being cheap. GW could cut the prices for their kits in half and they still would be making a ton of money. The price of production could potentially get more expensive once nonrenewable plastic goes up in price due to scarcity; this is arguably a moot point seeing as plastics derived by renewable sources will likely take off in the market, due to either costing less or being the only option once nonrenewable plastics are used up. Arguably the primary reasons GW's kits are expensive has to do with branding allowing then to get away with charging more and GW executives wanting to show record profits to shareholders. I say this considering there isn't really any other reason that would be compelling for the people who would be responsible for determining prices. And don't get me started on how it is so much goddamn BS that the price can vary wildly between regions. I perfectly understand shipping will tack on price, but there's no reason that the same kit that costs 36 pounds (or 42 USD) if sold in England costs 60 USD if sold in the United States. I can not be convinced it is perfectly reasonable to have this 18 dollar increase for the same kit, let alone the price gouging that happens in Australia and New Zealand.

[@lostbutfreesoul]

The problem with this argument: Game Workshop isn't a start up company.... It recouped the cost for all that decades ago, and thought they could just print money from that point forward. Failures to innovate, to stock pile funds for the future, and to create daughter businesses that would lessen the costs of production in other ways... all the fault of Game Workshop itself. The problem with this company isn't production, it was the 1990's and reluctance to grow that point as a company. They got comfortable, and now others will capitalize off of it.

[@inhakim62]

Great video! Keep it up man! Love the editing and your script writing is excellent!

[@Noot_Official]

ayy really appreciate it!

[@FernieMac]

Great video, I agreed with almost everything you said. Especially how the rule bloat is quite overwhelming for my brain

[@zzxp1]

The idea of rules patching with paper books is just insane to me.

[@jaerbear7237]

I stopped and playing in 6th with Space Marines. I’ve been slowly building an Imperial Guard Army for years now…fingers crossed for 10th.

[@JoshMC2000]

3:52 as a fellow kregi fan noot that hurt and my wallet has gone into hiding. (I mostly just use them in killteam but new book has rules for the killteam box)

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

6:15 I WANNA PLAY THE HRUD!!! Go my elridtch space time displacing aliens!!!

[@17joren]

I felt that impression, that much of the space marines were identical with paint pallet swaps, which wasn’t helped by the fact that my intro to W40k was Dawn of War where that was literally the case. But even with a smaller list of races/armies, the lore is so rich! Even between the various space marine chapters, there is diversity in style that you will appreciate.

[@Nazder711v1]

Glad you came across my feed! I've been in the game since the start of 8th edition and you voiced many of my issues from when I got into the game and even until now. Coming from a D&D background I understood having a paper rule book but needing to buy an individual PHYSICAL book for each army just felt weird. With how many rules each faction, sub-faction, and unit can have, along with my opponent's, it can get incredibly overwhelming even today. Another issue that doesn't get mentioned often to new players is how GW updates their factions. Knowing someone who got into Astra Militarum at the start of 9th edition, and almost 2 years later they STILL haven't gotten new rules for their army, leading them to feel like they made a poor investment being much worse off competitively, even in casual games.

[@Prockski]

Wait what… this channel comes across way bigger! Good job on the video!

[@Noot_Official]

Ayy thank you!! means a lot

[@anni3438]

I have played since 3rd edition as a casual player, you are entirely correct. AOS also has datasheets/warscrolls online as free pdfs, while 40k does not. Its the same company!

[@AsassinoSilenzioso]

For the cost, yeah you are absolutely right. As a Tyranids player, my small Hive Fleet costed me around 255€ in models only. I have to spend around the same sum to get a full 2000 points army excluding transport case, paint and building equipment.

[@Aconspiracyofravens1]

Ok, couple tips 1: the cost becomes much better if you buy a 3d printer 2: For paints, army painter and vallejo are both significantly cheaper for equal or superior products respectively 3: Paint brushes, cheap makeup brushes for drybrushing and cheap craft brushes for painting works fine 4: if you dont get a printer, if you look at the other prices of similar companies with large scale injection molds, they are around half the price on average wargames atlantic, fireforge games, warlord games and perry miniatures are the best 5: you can also use recasters if you need them 6: try skirmish games, there are a lot of rulebooks that go from 0-20& online that you can buy, they are much cheaper and only need a single box of models, a lot of people also find them more fun I would reccomend a follow up video in a couple months offering solutions to a lot of the problems outlined in this video, Howhever this would be massive effort so I understand the arrogance of this suggestion. Still, good, well made video

[@ChapterMasterDad]

That's a lot of problems. I always tell people with this long of a gripe list to just find a new game. Sometimes "gatekeeping" is somewhat necessary to keep something the way you want it. Star wars.... Great video and opinions btw, I almost left w/o saying that!

[@Noot_Official]

Haha thank you ChapterMasterDad! Definitely agree to an extent with what you're saying here

[@astanovbairam7839]

Great content! Wish you grew success

[@isaiasvazquez5792]

I remember hearing about comparing the prices of minis to gundam model kits. Yes minis are very nicely detailed but for 60$ you get a 8 inch Gundam that's fully articulated and color accurate without needing to paint or glue anything, and has a number of swappable accessories. I bought a starter set of space marines and while I did enjoy the experience, I'm not buying anything else priced like that

[@beninthehills8155]

Well done! Good editing man.

[@Noot_Official]

Appreciate it man!

[@ShahbazBokhari]

Here's hoping 10th Edition treats you well, I'm hoping GW comes up with more innovations towards accessibility when it comes to the game and even the lore. After over 20 years being obsessed with this hobby and universe, sometimes it's an exercise in frustration to see how GW handle their IP. Fair play to them for growing at the rate they have and I am supremely happy or cautiously optimistic with what I've seen in 10th edition so far. Nice to have you in the community. :)

[@timeforringydingy]

Great insights, spot on.

[@Noot_Official]

ayy i appreciate it! thanks for watching

[@Mongooseh3]

Sweet sweet algorithm thank you for finding this channel for me

[@Noot_Official]

Sweet sweet algorithm thank you for guiding this viewer to me