Production Hell - Justice League

[@TheCriticalDrinker]

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[@KnarfMetmohn]

Hey Drinker 👍🏻

[@jamesluna5914]

hi drinker can you do a reaction to "the night of the doctor" highlighting the wasted potential of an 8th doctor series

[@ghostinthecraig]

Bruh….🙌🏾

[@jonathanperry8331]

This reminds me of the movie event horizon which I had never heard of until I subscribed to your channel. The fact that the original is lost makes me very sad

[@francois47achan]

There’s one thing you had off mate...they effed with BVS heavy and that was the reason for the low ratings. If you’d watch the Ultimate version...you’d easily see they’re influence.

[@Tyler-zz4kv]

The whole motto was “you can’t save the world alone”. Then Superman proceeds to save the world, alone

[@newtpondskipper]

Hey he had everyone's "hopes and prayers"!

[@arunkrishnakumar692]

Nah the team did their stuff. Wonder Woman and aquamans absence would've meant end of earth way before. Don't forget flash who saved everyone.

[@theunknowncommenter725]

Not really true. Even in the Whedon cut The entire team still contributes to defeating the main villain, even Wonder Woman still delivers the final blow even though she doesn't cut his head off.

[@KanzlerOttoVonBismarck]

By alone they meant as in without superman

[@treybrannon4964]

Only because Flash kept it to himself...

[@iainbrewin]

When the story of making the film is way, way better than the film itself.

[@tiernanmcveigh4102]

The room 😅

[@Cowslippoetry]

Or in the case of LotR, where the making of and the films are on about equal levels. The effort, care, and passion put into those three films are as awe-inspiring as the end product itself.

[@adityawankhede7260]

Wayyy better

[@charlesws7825]

This was also a helluva lot shorter than what Zack and Josh created. ;)

[@insensitive919]

So many twists and turns, evil organizations with their own goals, petty tyrants with no social compass... it's excellent. I havent watched a single tv show or movie in like 4 years, they just can't compete with this, assuming you like tragic comedies.

[@cellebg]

The worst part of it all was what Warner Bros did to Snyder: they decided to change the project he was leading, wanted to remove him and they viewed the DEATH OF HIS DAUGHTER as an opportunity and released a different movie saying, at that time, it was the conclusion of his work. 😤 No wonder so many people mobilized for the Snyder Cut to be released and still raised $ 500,000 for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

Snyder's daughter died by suicide? Why?

[@CahyoPrabowo]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 internet bullying of the bvs

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

@@CahyoPrabowo That's fucked up. They went after HIS DAUGHTER because the movie was bad!?!?

[@MarcoPolo057]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 BRUH NO! that man Cahyo is fuckin nuts. She died because of completely unrelated suicide due to Depression. Extremely disgusting behavior to spread jokes about a Teenagers Suicide

[@ben_sisko2149]

And Snyder's asnwer was: "you're all a bunch of racists" XD

[@thebodylanguageguy]

Love these 'Production Hell' episodes. GODSPEED, DRINKER!

[@619to974]

hello Jesus Enrique Rosas just here to say i love your videos ^^

[@mobbs6426]

Love most of his episodes, just can't often make the livestream or afford the time for them after It's not the same watching a rerun though, you lose a layer of interaction. Almost like making a videogame movie or a live action cartoon or anime, you're just missing part of it

[@BleachDemon707]

SILENCE, CHECKMARK

[@Garrus1995]

Your use of “Godspeed” makes me wish Drinker collaborate with Razorfist.

[@alexanderengland473]

Speaking of Production Hell, what happened to the Fan4stic video?

[@y_s4021]

It's crazy that, even though Feige pulled off an unprecedented feat with the MCU, Warner thought they could skip straight to the Justice League and make it work. The sheer hubris is astonishing.

[@jtjdrums]

To be fair JL was the 5th film in what was meant to be a connected series (MoS, BvS, SS, WW, JL) which is hardly rushing. Marvel got to Avengers on their 6th film, two of which were Iron Man movies. The trouble is that all the DCEU directors provided the required connectivity for the studio, but then WB interfered, removing bits, shortening films, reshooting and generally sabotaging their own ability to compete.

[@benpage11]

Funnily enough...Zack made it work and WB fucked it over anyways

[@blackpanda7612]

@@jtjdrums You can't seriously be counting fucking Suicide Squad as part of the core Justice League. 4 movies with only 1 Superman movie, a Batman V Superman and a wonder woman is nowhere near enough to setup a justice league movie

[@jtjdrums]

@@blackpanda7612 of course I'm not counting Studio Squad, because, as with BvS theatrical and WW theatrical, WB did their best to ramp up accessibility at the expense of connectivity. I'm pretty sure the Ayercut is part of the ensemble. So yeah, I'm fucking serious.

[@y_s4021]

@@jtjdrums Yeah, there were those, and I completely erased SS from memory. As you said, I think WB erased the connectivity from the movies, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there were still Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg yet to be introduced. And man, they had two messy spider-man movies with too many storylines to learn from. There could probably be a 'Snyder Cut' for each of those movies, that could be better than what we got. That would be crazy.

[@JIHAN147]

BvS was supposed to be a two parter BvS: Enter The Knight 2015 BvS:Dawn of Justice 2016 But wb didn't let that happen, they forcefully merged the two parts and also cut 30 minutes of the merged film WB was rushing to compete with Marvel

[@Anshumansahu23]

Wait what??? BvS was supposed to be 2 part

[@quagmire6714]

@@Anshumansahu23 I remember seeing a title card of Batman v Superman: Enter The Knight online back in 2014 but when many said it was fake

[@Anshumansahu23]

@@quagmire6714 actually it would have gave dc characters screentime or character development...

[@quagmire6714]

@@Anshumansahu23 Yeah I agree they should've had it as two parts

[@iambuhlockay8007]

That’s totally false.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

The other thing to consider are the actors. People know the Marvel actors made millions of dollars for their recurring roles, especially those with good contracts like Robert Downey Jr and his Ironman. When planing out a cinematic universe you have to deal with actors who expect that same amount of money or just fail to commit to long term contracts. You can't do something like Avengers if your replacing who plays Batman every 3 movies.

[@razorpit]

Not only are there different Batman’s, they’re also in different universes. Utter disaster if you’re trying to maintain the interest of the average movie goer. They aren’t going to figure that shit out.

[@lancebaylis3169]

Truth. They call it in the business a 'retainer', paying an actor comfortably to secure them exclusively. Without that, the studios obviously have more freedom to change course, but the actor also has the complete freedom to go find other work. The infamous situation with Henry Cavill's moustache was a perfect example of when you haven't got an actor 'locked in'.

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Batman hasn't been replaced. It's called a multiverse, sherlock.

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

@@razorpit There's no disaster at all. You marvel kids simply don't understand the DC multiverse. Affleck is the central Batman. Keaton is the multiverse Batman and Pattinson represents Earth 2

[@Zarreth]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 I understand man, but hear me out bc i get where they're coming from. I jumped back into comics when i was 20 (poor kid and only got hand-downs from brothers growing up). I started with AoA and was immediately lost. I went to wiki and a week later, after probably hundreds of new tabs, i kinda got every question i had about DC and marvel answered. Including conflicting DC stories, i had always heard this and that about "in the comics" and usually, alternate universe was the answer if i wasn't a reboot thing. We, as fans, know and understand, but they're kind of bipolar about treating people as completely new fans but long time fans at the same time. They're probably going to explain it in flash but, as of now, no movie has said it is A B or C universe. They announce things like that in a random publication but only fans end up finding out. The arrowverse answered everything in its Crisis but outside of Crisis, it's never been mentioned in story for any movie. It's like they're gambling on us to explain it to normies at this point lol. They're failing on the biggest staples of writing that alot of everything misses, Show Don't Tell. If they haven't seen the random news article saying The Batman is earth 2, they are probably thinking its another reboot or Young Batfleck. Not to mention Joker which is now getting a sequel that i'm already iffy about. Warner used to be good but after 5 buyout/mergers since the 90s, they just seem to have a history of ruining franchises due to corporate bs. Just look at WCW being immediately sold to its biggest competition after the AOL Merger, despite Ted Turner Himself fighting for it. That's all DC is to them at this point. An IP in their library. Sorry for the rant lol

[@zillauniverse7208]

I can’t wait for this series, hopefully you can do production hell on other movies like Fan4stic, X-men Origins, The He Man Movie, and many other films that either had a messy production or were stuck in development hell.

[@MrLavajet]

He did Fant4stic but it was taken down. Fox probably complained, and it's a shame because that was a good one.

[@1977dclinton]

or a segment called franchise hell, i just watched the EFAP guys watch the wonderwaman films back to back and christ i'm pleasedi didn't sit through those, Gal Gadot is NOT an actress she is the classic Mactress.

[@thedislikeman3575]

Production Hell: Stepsis

[@Out_And_About1872]

Series?

[@egomania2792]

The Fan4stic video got taken down, I recall the Drinker mentioning that he was contacted with a threat of legal action if he didn't take the video down.

[@michaelfraser1073]

The worst part of all of this is that when Snyder left, he didn't want to publicly say what had happened, but felt he had to because of what the media would say if he left without reason.

[@canadianeh4792]

Production Hell is my favourite. I would love to see one on "Waterloo". Shooting a western film in Ukrainian SSR with over 15000 Red Army soldiers and cavalrymen as extras in the middle of the Cold War could have been nothing but a nightmare. It's like LoTR but with no CGI, all practical effects. They built a battlefield and had the 7th largest army in the world at the time.

[@Nurgles_Rot_]

"Grouchy! Gerard! You take 30,000 men. You take one third of my army and pursue Blucher. Don't let them regroup or consolidate and don't let them rejoin! I haven't seen it since I was a teenager (1995ish) but I remember it was a great movie!!!

[@planetdisco4821]

It’s also frikn awesome btw….

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

Can Back To The Future qualify for this series given how the story kept getting denied in the 80s back then before universal allowed it a greenlit, firing Eric Stoltz after 6 weeks of filming once they could get Michael J Fox their original choice as Marty and hiring Jeffrey Weissman to wear molds of Crispin Glover's face for Part 2 when Glover and the crew couldn't agree on a payment settlement?

[@riskybiscuits688]

It's sad to think about how good the DCEU could have been, if they had taken more points from the animated justice league

[@jbbrolic]

Yeah or any remotely faithful take on the characters. They haven't been loved for decades because of the costumes and power sets which is about all Snyder did correctly with the heroes.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Except for the batwank.

[@CrazyCarnieCory]

I know right! Imagine if they put the people who gave us "Batman the Animated series" or "Gargoyles" in charge of the DCEU

[@jbbrolic]

@@CrazyCarnieCory if you have HBO max check out the DC animated movies. I'd say at least half of them are good and most of them have solid versions of the characters. That is the best DC film universe we will get, considering WB has gone from one bad direction (grim, morbid, every character is from Watchmen) to another (all heroes must be black or female.)

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@jbbrolic i actually really like where Snyder is going with superman, tough it only shows if you watch the Batman v Superman directors cut and the Snyder cut. Instead of having Superman start of like that he makes him grow into that person instead which i liked a lot.

[@Gfan-yi7tm]

My mom and I watched them back-to-back over two nights. First the Snyder Cut, which we’d both seen recently, and then the theatrical cut, which we hadn’t seen in years. It was quite the experience. The theatrical cut feels like a montage of the real movie.

[@robertayala82]

Even the drinker has a hard time staying in character during the Superman stache part. Great video drunken sir

[@slevinchannel7589]

Random, but i wanna say cause i got it on my mind: We live in a Time where the US-President is so massively incompetent-hyper-deluxe that he says "There is DIGNITY and HONOUR in Working! So Work!", blatantly lying for Reasons pointed out by KZbinr Some More News. Go and then come back and tell me youre opinion on it.

[@BloodfoxV]

I dont get it what was wrong?

[@robertayala82]

He chuckled when talking about the stache.

[@SiMeGamer]

I haven't seen the movies, so I can't make a good judgement call but it seems they've removed the mustache really cleanly. Could've left it in though. That stache in MI:Fallout was glorious.

[@riftshredder5438]

Actually, the movie that was originally supposed to kick-off the DC Cinematic Universe was the Green Lantern movie, but because of its low box office returns and mixed reviews, WB decided to go back to the drawing board

[@nickbutcher760]

I remember that!

[@thatonejoey1847]

Let's be honest with ourselves, green lantern as a starting movie to a cinematic universe is a terrible idea, the lore of green lantern is to complex for the common movie watcher, like the simplest way to explain it is "we are an intergalactic police force" but then they decide to add the other lantern corps into this with the yellow lanterns and Sinestro. Like they could have had a buddy cop movie with Hal being the dumb rookie and Sinestro the experienced, disillusioned veteran, with a few cameos to other popular super heroes and then have Sinestro die in a dramatic way to save Hal, and later on after a movie or two, reveal sinestro is back and was evil the whole time, but noooooo, we had to introduce the lantern corps incompetently with a generic plot, screw earth, let's have space cops fighting crime

[@riftshredder5438]

@that one joey I didn't hate the film but I agree, they tried to put so much stuff into one movie when it should have at least been a two-parter, something WB has a tendency of doing over and over again lol

[@tanall5959]

That movie makes me sad. Not because of the movie failing. But that the movie failing killed any hope of another season of the Green Lantern animated series. The world will never know the joy of Razer, the Blue Lantern who is 100% done with everything.

[@impudentdomain]

The danmdest thing to a comic book fan is that movie was very faithful to the comic. Problem is Green Lantern was never an A list hero.

[@justanotherbod3378]

Drinker! Please do a “production hell” for “Alien 3” you know it needs to happen. A textbook example of pure studio interference fuckery which helped,in my honest opinion, create one of the greatest left field filmmakers of our time….

[@didymussumydid9726]

Alien 3 still came out great though. Finches is the goat.

[@eldestgruff]

Imagine the alternate universe where Warner decided to take their time. They'd be kicking into high gear right about now at a time where Marvel is in a place of weakness. DC could have crushed Marvel and all it would have taken was patience and good planning.

[@thedislikeman3575]

ikr. the worst part is that it really doesn't take much to crush the M-She-U nowadays. all u have to do is stop promoting THE MESSAGE. oh wait actually nevermind... thats impossible in 2022 right.

[@kri249]

Exactly. That's what I would have done if I was in the big chair. Let Marvel have its run then step in with your own unique superhero movies that Warner should have been working on in that time. It's not as though the publics taste for superhero movies was going to end on a specific date.

[@ericm5315]

That's the problem; WB executive hubris.

[@NucleaRaptor]

Movie fads only last for about a decade, and the superhero movie phase is on its last legs by now. We're already seeing massively diminished returns with MCU Phase 4. I'm sure WB felt like they had to strike while the iron is hot.

[@MrHerolet]

@@thedislikeman3575 Never heard of that, M-She-U, how cheesy

[@Dreadjaws]

Small correction here: the first attempt from WB at creating a cinematic universe was Green Lantern. They were already planting the seeds for other movies by including Amanda Waller (and an earlier version of the script even had Clark Kent in it). Of course, that didn't pan out for obvious reasons.

[@marsjokes]

Something I've been trying to figure out... Where does the DC universe even begin? I thought maybe starting chronologically with it, like in order of release. So you'll have Dr Occult, with Rose, Superman, and on and on... But then some of the other characters aren't a part of the JL. So maybe you go Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash... Wait, that resembles the JSA roster.... Maybe you split it up into AC and DC?

[@gibsonchomar7428]

There was also Gotham City in Superman Returns and how they were considering a Batman v Superman movie back then...and Justice League Mortal

[@Dreadjaws]

@@gibsonchomar7428 Sure, but that only meant they intended to have many characters in one movie. They still didn't plan a cinematic universe. The Superman and Batman from Justice League Mortal and the old Batman vs Superman movie were going to be played by different actors from the ones in the then current Batman and Superman movie.

[@gibsonchomar7428]

@@Dreadjaws the batman they were considering was Christian Bale, to fight Brandon Routh And as for Justice League Mortal, it was gonna lead to solo movie spinoffs

[@Dreadjaws]

@@gibsonchomar7428 Those were just rumors. The actual data says pretty clearly that they did not intend to have the movies mesh together.

[@Valelacerte]

_”Too many cooks”_ Exactly! I understand the businesspeople’s focus on cost, efficiency and predictability. However, the businesspeople in the 1970s seemed to be far more intelligent in their handling of artists and the artistic process than today’s executives. Subsequent generations of movie executives probably thought that they could tame and domesticate artists for a more manageable and profitable process. However, I reckon that they have not only increased the cost and timescales, but also reduced the creative quality.

[@davidsuda6110]

I think another difference between the 70s and today is the audience. Your big budget mainstream movies are for an audience that primarily doesn't speak English so the dialogue should be simple for subtitles or dubing and any specific cultural refrences should be removed or changed and so on. I don't watch independent film but it seems streaming and TV with its smaller audience has filled that nitch IMO.

[@justinharrell3481]

The reality is that WB didn’t have the patience to give the characters origin films of their own in the same way the MCU did. Yea we got man of Steel but Cyborg, Aquaman, and perhaps even Flash should have had their solo films come out ahead of this and perhaps even BvS so that we’d actually give a care about these characters. It also does the groundwork so you have their backstories done and don’t have to cram them into this film. Then this film can focus on the story it wanted to tell rather than doing the work of several films.

[@puellamservumaddominum6180]

What's the hurry could of given all six origin movies. What is marvel past 20 now?

[@sarairuiz2369]

I believe Zack had a 5 movie plan for the "universe" wich in the long run is better than 20+ movies like are you kidding me? lol

[@HooDooBrown]

Thank the gods ezra Miller wasn't allowed to t bag the flash anymore. He ruined that character.

[@A_Stereotypical_Heretic]

Nobody wants to see a back story of a black gay robot.

[@joannaalmazan4508]

the problem with WB wow don't we all get tired saying that at this point but anyways it would be nice if they would just say ah do what ever the hell you want just don't go over budget nope always fighting over control of a film in production making all these bizarro ass decisions at HQ is there any hope for them ah sometimes well I'll tell you another thing is tho it's gonna make ya a little mad but WB also has all the old ips for atari and they don't have any plans to use any of em as of right now either

[@kevinbuja4373]

Drinker, as a fan of your KZbin work and your Ryan Drake series, the “Production Hell” stories are my favorite. Thanks again for another episode of…….”Production Hell”.

[@bBersZ]

You're welcome.

[@igninis]

they are really good, but drinker recommends are better in my book :)

[@leonelimalevu2199]

Mine is the drinker's extra shots. Shows all those underrated movies that people don't really know about, but are ABSOLUTE gems of cinema.

[@alangagnon5203]

10:58 I love how even Drinker can’t stifle a chuckle at mustache-CGI.

[@GreatUSTreasureHunt]

"Marvel did Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America movies before the Avengers. Maybe we should introduce Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg in their own movies before we form the Justice League." "Nah, it'll be fine!"

[@arroe8386]

I mean it halfway worked in the Snyder Cut, but shoving it all into 2 hours was just insane

[@iambuhlockay8007]

You don’t need solo films for every character for your ensemble movie to work.

[@GreatUSTreasureHunt]

@@iambuhlockay8007 This one could have used the individual films first. It was a hot mess. FACT.

[@iambuhlockay8007]

@@GreatUSTreasureHunt Josstice league? Sure. The Snyder cut? Nope.

[@GreatUSTreasureHunt]

@@iambuhlockay8007 Nah. A set up would have been better for both.

[@Esure101]

Man Cavil's moustache still takes the fucking cake for me. Imagine spending $40 million dollars and hiring an army of Indian CGI programmers rather than two grown adults talking to each other and letting him shave off a moustache that could be regrown in like 2 weeks.

[@TheGary108]

Problem with that was that Henry Cavil had an contract with Mission Impossible Fallout that said he can’t shave his mustache until filming is over. WB got into a pissing match with Tom Cruise over the ‘stache, guess who won?

[@RJALEXANDER777]

Mission Impossible made a lot of money and Justice League didn't. To me it sounds like the studio knew which movie to prioritize.

[@Dreadjaws]

@@TheGary108 It was still a stupid contract rule. The way they talked about it they made it sound as if the moustache was integral part of the character, and having watched the movie I guarantee you it was not.

[@TheGary108]

@@Dreadjaws Of course not. But it’s in the contract. Like it or not, contracts has to be followed unless there’s an appeal. Appeals cost money and there’s too much risk for escalation and it might end up costing more than using CGI to hide the Stache.

[@Dreadjaws]

@@TheGary108 Which is why OP mentioned that they could have talked about it like grown men.

[@BatSTUD]

From what I heard, Snyder was going to be fired, but when his daughter committed suicide he was basically allowed to leave with grace. Horrible. But I think it's obviously true by statements that have been made by Warner's about the Snyder Cut NOT existing and Snyder after the Snyder Cut was released and if he'd work with Warner's again.

[@matthewmuir8884]

You heard incorrect; they couldn't fire Snyder as he had a three-movie contract with them.

[@thepaladinauthoryoutube]

To be honest, I'm reminded of how much better the DC animated Universe was. The animated series for Batman and Superman, Justice League and JL:Unlimited and Batman (freakin) Beyond. The perfect balance of lighthearted moments, heartwarming hope, tonally appropriate dark moments, on-point emotion and brilliantly-written scripts and character arcs. That and Shirley Walker's fantastic music sensibilities, may she rest in peace. Frankly all they needed to do was live action adaptations/additions, cooperate with the original crews, and it would be money in the bank with a built in passionate fanbase. The integrated DC universe work was already done by acclaimed series. Minimum assembly required.

[@thepaladinauthoryoutube]

@deliriouspepeg True but at least even then the writers managed to jury-rig a pretty decent conclusion in Justice League for Batman Beyond.

[@charlesman8722]

Simple Timm and Dini cared for and respected these characters… Synder didn’t

[@theunknowncommenter725]

@@charlesman8722 Snyder very much did care for the characters in the story. Warner brothers only care about money.

[@theunknowncommenter725]

I think the DCEU would have been more kindly received if it came out in the early 2000s, since the DCEU uses the same kind of structure as Bruce Timm's DCAU (Superman and Batman get solo movies/shows first, team up show/movie comes next, and spin off character solo movies/series follow) If Warner Bros. had been quicker on the gun, this could have happened and it would have been great; but since Marvel got their cinematic universe first, everyone thinks that the MCU (almost every character gets a solo movie before doing big crossovers) is the only way to go.

[@lordhughmungus]

@@charlesman8722 Ridiculously awful take. Snyder very obviously cares about the characters and telling a good story, whether you like his take or not that's an indisputable fact. The theatrical Justice League was bad because they booted him out then crapped over everything he did by bringing on Whedon.

[@savagelogic8674]

I’ve been a Superman fan since I was 5, and a DC fan in general. Ever since I saw the Avengers movie, I always wondered why we hadn’t gotten a live action JL movie for so long. I was so crushed with how bad it turned out 😞.

[@abps9947]

But we got snyder cut

[@benpage11]

Thank God ZSJL fixed it

[@ninjanibba4259]

@@abps9947 which is mediocre at best, this is the best you want in a JL movie? Especially considering how they are in other media? Aim higher

[@crazysilly2914]

there was also that 2008 Justice league movie that was going to take place in the Nolan-verse that got cancelled...

[@kaustubhpalkar792]

@@crazysilly2914 it wasn't going to take place in Nolan Verse. It was going to create a completely new DC cinematic universe.

[@AnthonyWilliams840]

Barring all the horribleness of the issues that plagued Justice League 2017, one could argue that it may have been better that it all went wrong for DC Films. Marvel Studios had dominated the market share of CBM by 2017, and everyone was hyping up the next Avengers film. The WB studio were fighting the directors, writers and actors they'd hired to compete against Marvel which was already an uphill battle. Now tho, with Marvel having just started Phase 4, and DC films in 2021 having had huge success with both Zack Snyder's Justice League and The Suicide Squad, as well as starting off 2022 strong with The Batman, DC Films has a chance to win back more of the GA market share that Marvel dominated. The WB-Discovery merger may also look to reshuffle key positions at WarnerMedia in a bid to return back to the "creative-friendly" studio it used to be, having lost Snyder to Netflix, and Nolan to Universal. Time will tell.

[@dnkykng3369]

This movie told me to cherish the DCAU from 1992-2007, and including the original Teen Titans series, and Batman Beyond. Also at 7:49, should have had Joss reply with "fuck off film"

[@icepicjoey]

The original teen titans was aces.

[@dnkykng3369]

@icepicjoey yupp, that's why I got that series on DVD

[@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf]

DC also has kickass animated movies that are after that DCAU era that are really good. They almost always have the voice actors from the DCAU or equally talented voice actors for all the characters.

[@randomnerd3402]

@@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf Peter Weller as Batman in the animated Dark Knight Returns animated movie was casting genius.

[@sirbughunter9972]

God I love the DCAU. What a near constant and impressively well made just jewel after jewel of television. Nothing is perfect of course but I have gotten so much entertainment from that time period. Batman Beyond was my personal favorite :D

[@fractaljack210]

I was never a DC guy, but I was baffled how they couldn't get the last iterations of Superman and the Justice League right. So easy, but....

[@thedislikeman3575]

@purple X let it be there. we don't care.

[@merlyworm]

@Mcheetah This. Before the MCU, before Arrowverse, we had the DCAU. and the DCAU was fantastic. All they woulda had to do is that and go. Its amazing how they fucked it up so bad, when right under their noses was the perfect blueprint for them to draw on.

[@fractaljack210]

@Mcheetah As I said, I'm not a DC guy, but I loved the animated shows and watched them on often. You're right, the blueprint was there to be had. These characters are so ingrained, so established in our conscious, I was shocked at their mistreatment.

[@stevenscott2136]

@One Quick Thing Even then, Snyder could have chosen to do it right, but didn't. If I had Superman's power, I'd rule the world with an iron fist, but I still understand that HE wouldn't, his fans don't want him to, and I wouldn't write a story where he did. So Snyder is blending his Objectivism with rampant ego and a complete lack of both people skills and business sense.

[@mindmaster58]

@purple X Finally it’s here kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM

[@spacehamsterZH]

The most shocking thing to come out of this entire fiasco for me was still the fact that I ended up having to say something nice about a Zack Snyder movie. His version was... also flawed, but there's no question it was better than Whedon's.

[@terrylandess6072]

I can only add: I wish I had never seen the Whedon cut as it diluted my experience with the Snyder one.

[@ashes2diamond]

This. The only reason the crappy Snyder Cut gets so much 'oooooooooh' is because the bar couldn't possibly have been set any lower with the original disastrous release.

[@dragovin08]

ZSJL is like Alien 3's assembly cut to me, yeah it's a better movie overall but it has its own slew of problems that dilute it

[@sorateal12]

Interesting- I never watched wheedon's version and only saw the Snyder cut and thought it was alright (especially considering that I'm not much of a DC fan and have only seen a few DC films) I thought a few bits in the 3rd hour dragged a bit, but overall, I wasn't bored for most of a 4-hour-long film!!

[@matthewmuir8884]

I honestly disagree. I genuinely believe the Snyder Cut was worse; a lot worse (both were bad, but the original was a garbage bag while the Snyder Cut was the entire dumpster).

[@MurderMostFowl]

I think the main problem with Justice League is that few of the characters had any connection to the audience. Marvel had the right idea in making the solo movies first to win the audience over for most of the characters. (and that they clearly should have made it 2 movies… or even 3 )

[@chrato74]

I think they did, Before JL, there were 3 movies released. Man of Steel, BVS as a Batman reboot and WW. But I see what you mean, they should've made Man of Steel 2 instead of BvS, WW, Batman solo movies (reboot), the Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg and then JL.

[@k2k4]

If only the DC CU had taken their time and built a proper MCU clone universe with the DC superheroes and storylines, quippy humor, and action-based plots. Instead they tried to create the dark night-verse, where everything is edgy and brown tinted.

[@jamesneese7663]

On the other hand don't forget that countless fans claimed that DC doesn't need to do origin movies and should straight to big team up since everyone "knows" the characters. Synder gave them what they said they wanted. Hmm

[@Nite-Mite]

@@jamesneese7663 those so-called “fans” were obviously in the minority and should’ve been ignored from the start.

[@supermichael9857]

@@k2k4 Well would you have wanted to wait through 6 movies + 1 (BVS) just to get a Justice League movie, especially when you already know where they were going with it? That would’ve taken too long. ZSJL did the best it probably can with juggling all those characters and not in a bad way. You certainly grow attached to the characters so the goal was met, the price was just 4 hours.

[@yoshidracos.a.1125]

Warner Bros. has already screwed DC films since the 70's, they didn't like Donner's take on Superman II, then with the 90's Batman films like Batman and Robin, Batman Forever, then you get the 2007 Justice League Mortal film which also got screwed.

[@mindmaster58]

@Energy Finally it’s here kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM

[@antalonampreel861]

@Energy Let it stay right there

[@theunknowncommenter725]

Warner Brothers actually had little interference or input on the Christopher Reeve Superman films. Production hell came all from the Salkind producers. Warner Brothers started interfering with every DC production post Batman Returns.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

@@theunknowncommenter725 Batman Forever is actually decent, Warner didnt interfere too much there since I rewatched it for the 1st time in years and it holds up.

[@dearanaprincipe]

“Nobody knows anything...... Not one person in the entire motion picture field knows for a certainty what's going to work. Every time out it's a guess and, if you're lucky, an educated one.” ― William Goldman, quote from Adventures in the Screen Trade (1983)

[@thanatos1387]

I grew up reading Alan Moore, Pat Mills and Frank Miller. So, I'm always drawn to darker material. I'm just so thankful that we got "The Snyder Cut".

[@MrVvulf]

I'd like to see a movie of James Hudnall's "The Psycho". If you're not familiar, it's a similar to "The Watchmen" but simpler and shorter.

[@matthewmuir8884]

The problem with Snyder's directing is that he's more like the edgy comics of the 90s that saw the darkness and edginess of Alan Moore's work in the 80s and sought to emulate that rather than emulate the good storytelling; his storytelling comes across as like that of someone who walked away from Watchmen thinking that Rorschach was supposed to be the good guy.

[@koacanne-perez799]

It still wasn't good it was better than the original. Synder isn't a great director

[@koacanne-perez799]

@Rhodey Robby n Batman

[@Ryan-mech-muffin]

Same

[@hughejass9461]

I liked Man of Steel and didn't mind the darker writing. I though Kevin Costner did a nice job and enjoyed Cavil's performance. I saw Justice League in the theatres and instantly disliked it. The Snyder cut however, while far longer, was far more enjoyable.

[@lexbc4751]

Same. I agree with some of the drinkers takes. But not this one. Snydercut = awesome. BvS = awesome. The MCU has movies, I don’t like them, they’re more aimed at a younger crowd. And I can smell the Disney. I hope the Snyderverse is restored.

[@bannedwagoner69]

@@lexbc4751 there’s a difference between dark and mature tho, bvs in my opinion fell way short of the latter while pretending to be such. While I enjoyed the darker, more realistic overall tone as opposed to marvel’s, the story and characters were terrible and upon rewatching make bvs a mediocre movie at best. And while I hate the light tone and shallower messages of the MCU, the decent stories and mostly exceptional character work make up for that to me

[@hellohello-yi8yr]

@@lexbc4751 damn you like those 2 movies?

[@ainslieberrafella]

@@bannedwagoner69 The most brutal review I read of BvS at the time said it was like watching a little boy smash two toy figurines together for two hours. I actually like the most (as a whole) but the fight scenes are often so over the top and intense it actually becomes draining to watch after a while.

[@themarsman5155]

@@lexbc4751 Bvs was terrible it's just not good idea to have two superhero fight each other when there is no real reason behind it. Superman just fights batman because lex has his mother and batman decides not to kill superman after he says his mums name because his mum has the same name. Batman then acts out of no where like there good friends. Batman has more justification for it as from his point of view superman with general zod who was actually in fault for destroying half of metropolis, it looks like superman doesn't care for the people of earth as long as he defeats the enemy. Apparently the ultimate cut is better but this rivalry still comes out of nowhere. You can compare this to civil war but the thing is Tony stark and Steve Rogers where at each other since avengers Steve thinks tony won't risk his life for anyone while tony believes that Steve's achievements are only because of the super soldier serum. The disagree on the contract tony believes they should be put in check especially since tony is responsible for Ultron, while Steve believes that its best hands are there own. The only big problem for that film is the attack on New York shield was going to nuke new York and your blaming the avengers for the destruction come on man.

[@jeffbenton6183]

Thanks for 8:45 - 9:25 in particular. I've heard of many relatively recent movies being ruined by unrealistic deadlines, but every time I hear that, I can't help but wonder: 'why not just delay the release date a year?' Now I understand the answer for at least one such movie (and it's probably a similar reason for all the others).

[@EvilDoresh]

Money. It's always money.

[@Ozzie_Mandias]

Aye... this is the important piece. Self-absorbed self-worshipping heroin addicts.

[@Zombiewithabowtie]

(Mr Krabs voice) "I like money!"

[@jdneilso]

I think the lady audience is probably the reason behind Aquaman's success.

[@mimikyugigas8106]

its understandable momoa is quite the attractive specimen

[@fernandogimenez7520]

Amber Heard as Mera wasn´t hard to the eye neither. Living with her is another story🤣

[@herloss448]

More like director's cleaver brain of understanding what the audience wants from that character .

[@barry2349]

Aquaman was a good movie that why it made the money it did

[@har5814]

Released during Christmas time and people want a movie like this.

[@Beeezledrop]

WB tried to have everything without putting the work into getting it. They needed to build their core character base by putting out at minimum a stand alone film for Superman, Batman and Wonder woman all the while droping hints of something bigger on the horizon. Even then I'd say that they should do Aquaman and Flash Stand alone before they even thought of doing their justice league movie. Hell they could have dropped hints about Darkseid being the bigger threat they'll have to deal with giving people something to build hype over. They had what they needed to make it work but they got impatient and ended up dropping the ball.

[@Ebalosus]

True, but the problem is that they retroactively attached it to MoS. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy MoS, but be honest with yourself: when you watch it, do you feel that Batman or Wonder Woman or Atlantis exists in its universe? Sure, there are Easter eggs, but nothing to where you _feel_ that a Batman or his rogues gallery exists in this universe. Think about it this way: did you ever _feel_ that Superman or Green Lantern existed in Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy?

[@Noodles.Doodles]

Arguably the best way would have been to start with local, hidden, or secretive characters, like Batman or the Atlanteans, as building blocks, and then build upward in scale to Superman and the world-ending threat of Zod. In fact, fighting Zod could have been their 'Avengers movie'. However, they had no choice but to start with Man of Steel. A court ruled that if they didn't start production on a Superman film (ANY Superman film) by the end of 2011, they could be sued for lost revenue by the copyright holders. There does not appear to have been any master plan or creative vision for a shared universe. Man of Steel was simply a means to an end. Kevin Feige started with the Avengers as a goal, and then worked backwards to produce the MCU.

[@jennaherman3859]

@@Ebalosus not to mention that Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern was the Original Anchor for WB cinematic universe, then it Was MOS retroactively after GL got slammed by fans critics and the actor himself, which i think he was a good candidate for the wise cracking over confident Hal Jordan, but 1 good actor cant make a good movie if the script and post production team cant get their shit together. and the DC universe has so many issues of a stand alone not acknowledging that other powered people exist although Iron Man also didn't say explicitly they did include S.H.I.E.L.D. into the movie which was a suggestion that other powers were aat work in the world. Which is why i think that the Suicide Squad words as a better premise to build the DC world from, but thats just my opinion. the First suicide squad even with its flaws is a much better world building movie than any other movie they have made.

[@KRYMauL]

From the stuff I heard back in 2014-2016, it was actually Zack's and David's idea to make the sequel of Man of Steel be The Dark Knight Returns. The production of Man of Steel itself was actually started right off the heels of The Dark Knight trilogy. It wasn't until the sequel that the story started to morph because of Avengers and the MCU. I think if Snyder was allowed to work his vision, the series would've been more like Lord of the Rings than MCU. The character's don't need full introductions, but something closer to Jackson's method would've been better.

[@Ebalosus]

@@jennaherman3859 thinking about it, I would have to agree that Suicide Squad (not necessarily the movie itself, but a movie featuring them) would be a great way to introduce [to audiences] the idea of a shared superhero cinematic universe. It would also help separate it from the MCU, since it would start out with the explicit acknowledgement that multiple superheroes can exist in the same continuity, instead of building up to it like Marvel did.

[@BruvahSulaiman]

Cinematic universe was a great idea and very easy to pull off. They literally already had an animated Cinematic universe before Marvel's live action one started. All they had to do was look at what worked with the old Batman TAS. That show was the launchpad for the Superman TAS and the JL/JLU and Batman Beyond and Static Shock all of which tied into the same universe.

[@jamesphilip6737]

Incredibly, WB couldn't take a ready made group of awesome characters that actually had greater recognition than Marvel's and do squat with it. Even after such great animation as BTAS, STAS, and the animated Justice League. All phenomenal examples that could've easily been ported to reality.

[@theunknowncommenter725]

I think the DCEU would have been more kindly received if it came out in the early 2000s, since the DCEU uses the same kind of structure as Bruce Timm's DCAU (Superman and Batman get solo movies/shows first, team up show/movie comes next, and spin off character solo movies/series follow) If Warner Bros. had been quicker on the gun, this could have happened and it would have been great; but since Marvel got their cinematic universe first, everyone thinks that the MCU (almost every character gets a solo movie before doing big crossovers) is the only way to go.

[@JohnWick-rh1zz]

They should just stick to the animated series

[@groovercrusader6651]

Thank you, Critical Drinker. Not for the videos, your sense of humor, your awesome Scottish accent but, for simply being born to give us ALL of that.

[@ericm5315]

WB really, really messed up here. Yes, ZS's vision wasn't for everyone but you know what's worse that launching a moderately divisive franchise? Changing direction mid way through your trilogy and doing it so badly that it comes off more as a Marvel rip-off attempt than anything. Seriously, they have everything set up perfectly for a reboot using Flashpoint. Now, instead...well we sure as shit aren't getting the Flashpoint Paradox...which practically writes itself. Then comes experienced Superman who's more in line with the iteration of Superman everyone is familiar with and you continue on your multiversal franchise.

[@skaetur1]

Exactly what happened to Star Wars. Mid way through, direction change.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

Why aren't we getting the flashpoint paradox?

[@Rapunzel879]

"Moderately...?"

[@josephatherley]

That's the thing. This wasn't supposed to be an extended universe initially. There's lots of studio interference that wasn't mentioned in the video. It's was supposed to be a superman version of Nolan's dark Knight trilogy. But WB decided that instead of mos 2 they wanted to include batman and cameos for the rest of the jl. Then the plan was to do the jl movies ( 3 initially then it was changed to 2) and even the the league would eventually beat darkseid, the world would be so broken that flash would need to go back in time to change things and this would have reboot the franchise. It was a good plan, nice and tidy. But studio execs put their fingers where they didn't belong and screwed everything. Imagine that patty Jenkins had to fight to keep the scene of wonder woman crossing no man's land in the ww movie. The studio wanted to cut it. Idiots

[@libertyprime6932]

Snyders vision isn't a problem, it's his inability to write anything other than pretentious, illogical garbage lol. His two best works are adaptations.

[@fahimalvi9521]

Ah yes. The movie that turned the entire potential of DCEU to a joke.

[@thedislikeman3575]

yet somehow the DCEU is still better than the MCU 🤣🤣

[@TrajGreekFire]

it was dead from day 1

[@Gannoh]

It was a joke since Man of Steel, Justice League was just the world's saddest punchline

[@Сайтамен]

BvS kinda did it first, and then Suicide Squad finished it.

[@ritenac6770]

Yes, it finally got the plug pulled on that poor attempt of a universe. And fortunately the attempt of the second version resuscitate the series didn’t manage to get air in the lungs (hopefully)

[@Grift76600]

Saw JL in 2017, even with no expectations it was a disaster. It took only a couple of minutes and scenes to realise that it was not a Snyder movie. The next couple of hours in the theatre were an uninterrupted back and forth between despair and internalized rage (only topped since by a certain space trilogy made by a certain studio with a mouse as a mascot).

[@logicplague]

That wasn't a trilogy, trilogies have a plan and an overarching story, that was just a shitshow.

[@Grift76600]

@@logicplague You are absolutely right. I'll meet you halfway, it is a trilogy ( 3 of them) of shitshows.

[@logicplague]

@@Grift76600 that's fair, lol

[@riftvallance2087]

I was always confused as to why they didn't just roll with a bearded superman. Giving superman aa rough grizzled unkempt look especially after coming back from the dead would have made sense.

[@magatetus]

It would have been a hell of a lot cheaper instead of all the money wasted on the CGI.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

@@magatetus Or why couldn't the mission impossible people find a similar mustache for Cavill to wear?

[@ColoradoStreaming]

I mean, if you think about who superman is and what he does, a beard is actually a good fit.

[@jon4715]

@@Thomasmemoryscentral Because Mission Impossible was a great movie and they had the contract...lending him out at all was a gift.

[@riftvallance2087]

@SGN So comic book wise superman isn't actually, dead he went Into a deep hibernation to heal.

[@TheoJay615]

Behind-the-scenes production drama has always intrigued me. Glad you're making these!

[@blackpanda7612]

That's why I can't help but just laugh my ass off when people slate Zack Snyder for the DCEU failure. Any sane person who has a fully functioning brain knows the problems with DCEU lie squarely at the feet of the WB executives. I mean fuck even Christopher Nolan left WB after he'd been with the studio decades because he became sick of their shit.

[@Michael-mt6yb]

Umm his most recent movie on Netflix was poorly rated. He’s not good like at all

[@Rise65487]

@@Michael-mt6yb that wasn't his point, his point was that the "justice-league" was fucked because of WB anyway he never said zack-snyder was a good director, only that WB are the fucking worsts and most incompetents peoples in the industry

[@eddy9524]

@@Michael-mt6yb I mean I'm not giving points to a guy that steals material/scenes from anime movies just cause the creator passed away...

[@Michael-mt6yb]

@@eddy9524 who are you referring to?

[@eddy9524]

@@Michael-mt6yb the director in question Christopher nolan.

[@registereduser]

I love videos like this. This stuff is fascinating to learn about. When a game or movie flops, actually learning all the reasons why is like **chef’s kiss**

[@Raccon_Detective.]

DC has created the perfect animated superhero universe but can't do a good live-action superhero universe because of Warner Bros.

[@fr0ck360]

The games are good like the Arkham series

[@CoffeeForAll]

I have watched both. I liked the Snyder cut more, because my brother, friends and I watched it while cooking dinner and drinking. Having someone miss out on some parts of it and then having seven intoxicated people disagree while explaining what happened was a great experience.

[@joser421.1]

I'm really loving these episodes. Judging by all the awful crap that's been coming out the past few years, Production Hell will never end! I'll go away now.

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

DC tried to copy the success of the MCU, but skipping all the necessary steps to make it actually work.

[@Acusumano25]

can you elaborate what steps were skipped that resulted in a failed cinematic universe?

[@Gannoh]

@@Acusumano25 not hiring Zack Snyder

[@r3dd3v1lL]

@@Acusumano25 Also being funny. Marvel movies might be repetitive as hell but at least they are entertaining to watch. The chemistry between their actors and the humor just work. DC take themselves too seriously.

[@thedislikeman3575]

@@Acusumano25 creating an entire universe takes time and effort. I'll try my best to explain this to you: One piece has had more than 1000 episodes of world building, and ifsomeone tried to create an universe as detailed as that but with only 24 episodes, it just wouldn't work. In the same way, DC tried to imitate the success of the M-she-U by putting in barely any work. basically it was just a cash grab.

[@ScottCleve33]

Exactly. Like the MCU putting out an an Iron Man and a Captain America film then going right to End Game to introduce Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye and whomever else all in a two hour film. They were too impatient to wait to shoot their wad.

[@sourensoukatsui]

Some common misconceptions. The Snyders have done an interview with Variety. According to the, Joss and Geoff were already around when Snyder was still working on the project. The Snyders kept on working for the project when their daughter passed away. But they kept on clashing with Geoff Johns that they decided to just quit it because they thought it's not "worth it". They should be mourning instead of butting heads with Johns and Whedon.

[@parklloyd6690]

I had to go back and check. Iron Man (the first MCU movie, even though they may not have realized just what they had) came out in 2008. By the time Justice League came out in 2017, the MCU had released SEVEN introduction story movies (Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Guardians, Dr. Strange, Spiderman, and Ant Man), and TEN other movies, including the various group movies where the stars were working together or against each other. When Justice League was announced, and the first info about it came out, even I (an old white guy - not the target audience for Brie Larson's movies) thought it sounded like an attempt to catch up to Marvel in one movie, ignoring all the solo movies to introduce the characters. I think I saw Justice League in the theaters, but I'm not positive. (I know I didn't stand in a line for it.) Again for context, 2009 was the ONLY year between 2008 and 2019 that didn't have any Marvel movies, and most of the latter years had 2-3 movies each year. DC didn't read the tea leaves or the trade publications while the MCU was (not quietly) building a fan base and a library of good or great movies (for the most part). I almost wish they had conceded to Marvel for the time being, and then circled back in a year or two. But thanks, Drinker, for the behind-the-scenes info about the movie and its issues. Cheers.

[@shadowbyname2802]

For me, Justice League has remained one of the most disappointing movies of all time. I grew up watching the DCAU, the original Justice League and Justice League Unlimited shows being my all time favorites from the franchise. I still very much hold it up in high regard, and believed that the same treatment for the characters there would be applied to Justice League. That couldn’t be any further from the truth, and after hearing all of the stuff that went on behind the scenes, I’m only more disappointed. So much potential and it was wasted both times. To me, Justice League was the last straw to write off the DCEU. If they couldn’t even get that right, then what can they?

[@SaltLight7]

They could have easily reused one of the plot threads from the DCAU and I don't think anyone would have complained. Heck, they could have used the first 3 episodes of Justice League but replaced the Imperium with parademons/Darkseid, explain away Doomsday and Superman's resurection with some Cadmus references, and BAM!

[@nailboard6492]

Lmao, Rise of Skywalker was the most disappointing of all time xD

[@jmbeats3308]

Agreed. I grew up with those shows. They could have used some of the DCAU movies to build a DCEU. The DCEU, even now is a watered down version of what it could be.

[@shadowbyname2802]

@@nailboard6492 After The Last Jedi, if you were expecting Rise of Skywalker to be any better or miraculously save the franchise, being disappointed is on you. Many of us knew it was gonna be awful and by God, they did not disappoint.

[@geraldlaing2671]

I love how he cut his own laugh out talking about cavill's stache

[@harryvekaria7478]

I had the misfortune to watch this in the cinema and felt compelled to leave early, the only thing that stopped me was that my son had fallen asleep !!!. The only other film that evoked the flee response that was that cinematic turd, The Last Jedi.

[@thebigpig2364]

2017 surely was the year for bad films, wasn't it

[@harryvekaria7478]

@@thebigpig2364 I get cold shivers just thinking about The Mummy and Transformers: The Last Knight.

[@thebigpig2364]

@@harryvekaria7478 And don't forget The Emoji Movie

[@kiniburk]

Forgotten about Ice Pirates? 🤣

[@harryvekaria7478]

@@kiniburk I missed that one luckily 😜

[@NathanCassidy721]

The DC Cinematic Universe: The living embodiment of why patience is a virtue and why you don’t judge creative works by how much money they make.

[@dazgreensmoker669]

I feel sorry for everyone behind the scenes who worked they're arses off to make this

[@dirus3142]

I used to watch Screen Junkies when this film came out. They did a press interview with Cavill that showed just how cool a dude he is. Screen Junkies gave Cavill a box of fake mustaches from a costume store. So every time they cut back to him with a new question he was wearing a different goofy mustache. I'm pretty sure this was for the justice league movie press junket interview. If not it had to be mission impossible.

[@matane2465]

The thing is they wanted it both ways. They wanted to focus on their main stream characters but they also wanted a mature series of films, if they wanted mature stories they should have focused on the Vertigo line of books. Like they could have done the Book of Magic or Sandman and turn those stories into spinoffs and series like Hellblazer, Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, The Spectre, Shazam.... or done the Wild Storm universe and focused on some of the books from that universe like The Authority or Planetary which were aimed at older audiences.

[@cjplay2]

ZSJL was epic. I will watch it again. JL17 ... looks good overall with some... ... issues. I like Drinker's humor, but MoS, and to a degree BvS, were something awesome to see. More or less, I just want filmmakers to run WB again. Not some telecom or cable jockey, but filmmakers. And I see some of that coming after Ann Sarnoff took over. I just hope Zaslav gets this as well.

[@phoenixdzk]

I actually liked MoS & BvS ' ultimate edition, kinda wish WB had the balls to let Zack do his thing and just reboot it once it was done like they always do, but they hiccuped halfway and nobody was happy in 2017, neither the people who liked or hated where the Snyderverse was going

[@herloss448]

Fix ur awful taste

[@l0st1t2b0st1k]

@@herloss448 Fix yours.

[@ZomgRuler]

What about ZSJL?

[@phoenixdzk]

@@ZomgRuler could've been way shorter, but otherwise liked it. I get that it's not to everyone's taste but whatever, I didn't like GOTG and somehow people cried when Thanos snapped away a CGI tree in Infinity War and I'll never understand that

[@ZomgRuler]

@@phoenixdzk loved Vol.1 didn't care for Vol.2 I hate Teen Groot.

[@calmgoodfire4662]

Production hell: Otherwise known as the daily editing time for a critical drinker video

[@plantiron]

*The voice narrative is deserving of a comedic award* ... *the part about giving him till November to finish the product was hillarious*

[@daddydreet145]

10:58 Drinker just couldn't help that laugh while talking. perfect.

[@ChevalieurNoir]

At this point we have to ask ourselves... Do we enjoy what is being done to our dear DC heroes? And better yet, how is this series of movies still standing? 80% of the movies are rushed and just for money grabbing. The few good ones that generated good characters are actually being vandalized or rebooted. My hopes are negative by this point. Have a good one drinker, you magnificent beast.

[@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf]

Easy, just watch the DC animated movies instead. Most are infinitely better than their live action counterparts.

[@SuperSteph5]

I wouldn't say DC movies are rushed when they all look good. If Aquaman or BvS were rushed I'm pretty sure the CGI in those movies would end up looking worse than Black Panther

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

Idk, I really liked The Batman. And in my honest opinion, I enjoy Snyder's vision. I never had a problem with Man of Steel, BvS, or his cut of JL. What I actually disliked was the excessively corporate cringe-humour of the Whedon cut, Ayer's Suicide Squad, etc

[@TimeBomb014X]

Justice League killed all my joy for superhero movies, just savegely killed it, then the Snyder Cut restored my faith at least in DC, but the incompetent WB execs who shelved that movie willingness to kill the good will gained from the Snyder Cut to reboot the franchise and push Batgirl and Supergirl makes me hate what movies have become, but then you have Matt Reeves The Batman which just makes me wonder if the execs are just bipolar or do all their decision making revolve around cutting the head of a chicken and see where it's body ends up.

[@barry2349]

@@TimeBomb014X dude Batgirl and supergirl are not being pushed bro that's a false rumour that has been debunked

[@matttheking1655]

Listening to drinker, makes me realize that Justice League could be a Great documentary movie... So many layers, conflicting visions, back stabbing executives, delayed productions, it's fall and final rise in the form of the Snydercut.... 🤔

[@kaltaron1284]

That Titanic analogyis actually more interesting and poignant than many might realize. The Titanic tried to avoid the iceberg at the last moment which caused her to scrape it sideways and rip many compartments open. Had it rammed into it frontally there might have been a chance to stay afloat. Not sure if that's still a accepted theory though.

[@635574]

The biggest flaw was the compartments weren't capped and they overflowed.

[@logicplague]

As Mopar owners say, if you can't dodge it, ram it.

[@kaltaron1284]

@@635574 I thought it was that the rivets weren't as well done as they should but let's be honest if you cut as many corners during building as you can and then try to achieve a speed record without any concern of the weather and iceberg reports... That slightly lowers the chance of success.

[@kaltaron1284]

@@logicplague That's actually true for any modern car. (Unless it's an elk or similar and it would crash through your windshield.)

[@logicplague]

@@kaltaron1284 Wouldn't wanna try that in a Prius or a Fit, lol.

[@fauxpseudocounterintellect5436]

My day has been redeemed, thanks Drinker!

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

1:34 Holy shit dude. That off-key banjo version of Yankee Doodle played over the Warner Bros Studio sign goddamned near killed me hahahaha

[@jtlegionnaire6310]

Would love this for any of the star wars sequels, but especially the last Jedi. Great video!

[@whyuhatan]

Disney would have the person responsible assassinated before they let the story behind that dumpster fire get released to the public 🤣

[@beepboopkendo4206]

If you want longform analysis of the last jedi try Mauler if you haven't already heard of him (considering you're a drinker viewer you probably already have but just in case)

[@nelisezpasce]

Well as long as the actress felt comfortable with Joss... Oh wait

[@jtlegionnaire6310]

@@beepboopkendo4206 thank you, I have, and appreciate how bad it is as a film. However I'd love to learn about how the production was bad, there's less discussion about it online. Other than Ackbar's actor cried, and Mark Hamill fundamentally disagreed with his character.

[@Outereme123]

I’d like to point out that the standing ovation from the test screening of BvS was for the director’s cut - which is a great film. Shit hit the fan when they decided to cut half an hour of important scenes, to the detriment of the film’s story

[@Paulafan5]

The Extended Cut still is an utter trainwreck and no explanation as to why Batman is a mass murderer now. Just a hint of the whole "Death in the Family" but that would go completely over 99% of the audience's heads.

[@thepeacefulbearbeer]

Amen to that

[@da-vidcargill4975]

@@Paulafan5 ignore this troll

[@da-vidcargill4975]

@@thepeacefulbearbeer BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@lexbc4751]

Agreed.

[@joncourt100]

The characterisation of Joss Whedon in this piece as a man backed into a corner who cracked under immense pressure isn’t an analysis I’d agree with. My reading suggests he was a man of immense ego (which became bloated, grandiose and malevolent after the success of The Avengers) whose hubris brought about his own downfall.

[@lukebreci9351]

I mean, the movie Snyder created was an absolute disaster, as we can see with the Snyder cut. Joss had an impossible task and I view the Whedon cut to be better than the Snyder cut despite them being both horrible films.

[@eye4104]

@@lukebreci9351 Jesus Christ you must be blind

[@whoreofdragonstone1031]

@@lukebreci9351 you’re just full of shit then. Snyder cut was better

[@shafkatahmed5420]

@@eye4104 His eyes or his mind about Joss is blind,we shouldn't really care what these people say.

[@cwjedi]

@@lukebreci9351 Whedon did improve things here and there, and cut unnecessary bloat. But both the movies still suck.

[@krspykreame1]

I honestly enjoyed bvs and the Snyder cut. They should have let him rock out and continue that universe fr

[@lexbc4751]

Yup 🤘🏽

[@psychodrummer1567]

BvS is good, but only in the Extended Cut.

[@Aisakevula]

Agreed

[@NICKRITZER]

Bvs should have been done as part of the ending in the second man of steel movie and teasing a movie after that....but no mos2.... *sigh*

[@goodafternoongoodeveningan5773]

I agree

[@Ars-Nova258]

A documentary on the making of this movie would make a better viewing experience than the movie itself.

[@BunBun299]

I didn't think it would be going in, but the Snyder Cut was indeed a vast improvement, which I watched several times. It should have been what we got in the first place.

[@shafkatahmed5420]

People can't see a 4 hour movie you know,they normally don't see 3 and half hour movie,but if it was released,it deserves a billion easily,considering how average other B dollar films are.

[@thepsychicspoon5984]

I remember when all the DC fans came out and said it was Whedon that purposely sabatoged JL as some kind of "loyalty" to Marvel. As if these movie making people are part and really care about the "Marvel/DC fan rivalry".

[@rmelo5932]

After watching the Snyder cut, I was in awe at just how different the two movies were. I was so disappointed when the theatrical version came out, I thought it was a terrible movie. I loved the Snyder cut and own it in my digital library.

[@lexbc4751]

Same 🔥

[@animezilla4486]

Here's the thing do you think the reason DC superhero movies that have been done by Zack Snyder we're too dark

[@rmelo5932]

@@animezilla4486 Not really sure, but for my tastes, I prefer the darker, more adult versions of superhero movies. I loved Man of Steel and I love Snyders Justice League.

[@reneszeywerth8352]

​@@animezilla4486 Without darkness there is no light. Infinity war essentially killed off half of the universe - wasn't that kind of dark?

[@kusakabe3264]

huh. what did you think of the "aquaman returns to the water" scene with the whole village singing him away?

[@justinbellotti7838]

This was absolutely amazing. Smart, entertaining, well researched and hopefully the begining of a full series of videos.

[@MoreDakka545]

Technically WBs first attempt at a cinematic universe was the Ryan Reynolds’s Green Lantern 🤮

[@garrywilliams8730]

I'd forgotten how bad that film was.I think Ryan Reynolds is still apologizing now

[@Dirty_Davos]

An since then, we are not allowed to get a good green lantern film. Can they stop to waste the coolest superheroes?!... damn

[@garrywilliams8730]

@@Dirty_Davos I wonder what Black Adam is going to be like and I probably won't bother to watch The Flash when that comes out

[@rotyler2177]

Why did you say that name?

[@theunknowncommenter725]

Green Lantern wasn't that bad.

[@mvm13]

Love your channel ! More Production Hell Please

[@heartysquid]

I actually really liked not only Man of Steel and I thought the Sneeder Cut wasn't bad at all. Guess we'll see if they can salvage the DCEU via things like Black Adam

[@seancarroll136]

And the extended cut of BVS, so why isn’t the drinker dealing with it.

[@returnedtomonkey8886]

Black Adam is B list villain of a less know Super Hero.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@returnedtomonkey8886 black adam is decently known

[@MutantsInDisguise]

As much as I hate Zack Snyder's nihilistic sensibilities on DC, Warner should have respected his work by delaying it instead of letting Joss Whedon ruin it all.

[@Сайтамен]

It was terrible regardless.

[@hassathunter2464]

There was no way they'd let a 4h movie go to cinema's though.

[@jtjdrums]

They could easily have trimmed it. Snyder's cut was 214 minutes at one point.

[@mdthelegend9882]

I fail to see how Snyder's DCEU films are nihilistic.

[@Dirty_Davos]

@@mdthelegend9882 I think he's perfect for the DC. The snyder cut is okay,I had fun, but, you cannot expect a great film with only 2 movies building up to it. 4 hours is the only way the film would make sense. I'm still pissed, I think man of steel was a great start.

[@guyvizard549]

Of course Joss Whedon answers the phone like Mr. Burns. Also, editors still receive all of my sympathy in any hell production.

[@logicplague]

Physically polishing an actual turd wouldn't be as hard, lol.

[@jovindsouza3407]

Hoo boy, this is gonna be a doozy.

[@ScarletDusk99]

I left the theater with my brother after watching Justice League, and kept asking, "what the hell were they thinking?" After a year or so, I started to understand. Now, thanks to my pal The Drinker, I completely understand. Thank goodness for The Snyder Cut, otherwise I'd live with a permanent sense of loss

[@ashes2diamond]

Snyder Cut is only slightly less crap. Come on man, don't you DC fans want something that is actually decent. You've set the bar so freakin low after the first release of JL that anything that isn't that original release is now seen as the best thing since sliced bread. Really? Have a little self-respect and stop settling for this kind of crap. Snyder is a hack and always has been.

[@adriboy01]

@@ashes2diamond I can't like a movie or what...I certainly found it better than a lot of Marvel movies, however I don't hate them either.

[@Manostion]

@@adriboy01 Of course you can like it, more power to you if you really do... that doesn't make it good though, and I honestly can't get myself to understand why you would. The Snyder cut assassinates pretty much every character in the movie, and while it does improve on some aspects, I honestly can see why most of the stuff Whedon cut was cut. Bruce Wayne, Barry Alan, Steppenwolf and especially Darkseid are painfully stupid in ZSJL, the time travel is a "fix all" button without any repercussions, Diana brutally murders some regular human goons in front of little girls, J'onn J'onzz almost manages to talk Lois out of going to the memorial, which would've made for an interesting version of the film, considering Bruce was utterly unprepared and just stood around like a moron, and so on... it's completely and utterly baffling for me how anyone can watch that movie and say that it fixed all of the theatrical cut's issues and managed to be a good movie. It fixes *some* of the theatrical cut's issues, but it creates a whole host of new ones. Like the movie, love it even, praise it as the best thing you've ever seen, but don't be surprised when someone tells you to expect better. As for the MCU, there are a lot of bad movies in there, especially recently with crap like Captain Marvel, Black Widow or The Eternals, but also with older stuff like Iron Man 2, Thor: The Dark World or The Incredible Hulk, but I'd argue neither of those, with the exception of Black Widow, assassinate their protagonists *and* villains as much as ZSJL does, and at the very least The Avengers had more than earned its first team-up by properly introducing all of the team members. Both Batman v Superman and Justice League were rushed af, just so that WB could quickly cash in on the big ensemble movies without earning it. And, at the very least, the MCU also has some genuinely good movies like Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy and Infinity War, amongst others. The DCEU has had three decent movies so far, one being the first Wonder Woman, which was pretty good for the most part, but let down by its weak, cliché and unnecessary final act, Shazam!, which was predictable but fun, but basically made like an MCU movie, and The Suicide Squad (not to be mistaken with Suicide Squad). The rest is varying degrees of garbage, with stuff like WW1984 and Birds of Prey being the absolute worst and Man of Steel and BvS being mildly tolerable. Feel free to disagree, but I can give you a detailed explanation for why each one is ultimately garbage, if you wanna discuss a specific one. I'd have to place ZSJL just barely above WW1984, I think...

[@mindfreak9674]

@@ashes2diamond Being real the snyder cut is a good movie. Definitely better than alot of marvel movies and compared to jostice league its a huge stepup.

[@adriboy01]

@@Manostion I'm not reading that. You can dislike it. However ut doesn't make it bad

[@jackthelad4285]

Happy to hear that Zack and Joss worked together at one point before the disaster happened

[@TheBoxGhost_tm]

I hope to one day see a Production Hell of Solo and Rise of Skywalker.

[@fr0ck360]

Hoping he would do TROS first. The directors are tearing each other’s scripts apart

[@gibsonchomar7428]

Unfortunately, there arent released stories behind Rise of Skywalker...only rumors

[@daspooch8105]

I like the inclusion of Doom Patrol clips haha. Oddball sort of show that definitely isn't for everyone, but I dig it.

[@marsjokes]

The main reason why I actually like Doom Patrol is because it reminds me of Zack Snyder's films, thematically at least.

[@Isnogood12]

It dragged on quite a bit, but when it was good, it was damn good. Really underlined what a messed-up universe DC is.

[@Dsims37]

This movie is a meta masterpiece! A commentary on the success of Marvel and a subversion of expectations for all Warner executives.

[@JokersVsZombies]

Really is crazy how its failure derailed the shared universe and caused them to decide to move away from it.

[@swiftfoxmark2]

I enjoyed Shazam. I feel like Warner Bros. should've had standalone films like that as well as Aquaman and Wonder Woman come out before Justice League, similar to what the MCU did. Heck, have Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman come out after those. That way, the audience gets introduced to the lesser known heroes first.

[@TwistedSoul2002]

Yeh- that’s the obvious way to do it but they wanted to catch up with Marvel quickly so thought that a blockbuster epic movie would kickstart their DCU and draw the fans in, then they could do the origin stories afterwards. I understand their thinking behind it but they forgot to build the most important thing; anticipation.

[@danielmillward9947]

Zsjl shows they had enough to work with for the characters without needing to have solo movies and have it feel well written and natural

[@666FallenShadow]

​@@danielmillward9947 zsjl and well written do not belong in the same sentence

[@Isnogood12]

Notice how completely Shazam is absent in JL? He was too "cartoony".

[@danielmillward9947]

@@666FallenShadow it does if everyone has a character arc and emotional moments that land

[@Rapscallion2871]

Many people hate the Snyder Cut because they don't appreciate what it represents, being a symbol of a film director's rights to creative freedom in their film and a fanbase's loyalty to what they love.

[@greggstrasser5791]

🤢 🤮

[@Vastspartan]

No

[@phaeded0ut]

Drinker, had a spit take there with that dramatization of Time Warner and Joss Whedon conversation about the Justice League. “Career Graves.” This was brilliant.

[@louisduarte8763]

"Career Graves" is either a band name waiting to happen, or a spin-off series for the Drinker to do.

[@olandir]

I honestly think there was a time (though I can't pinpoint it) when the goal of making movies was equal parts "make something good" and "make money". I'm not dumb, I know making money has to be one of the main goals, but at the very least "make a good film" should be right up there with it. But it's not anymore. The goal is "make money by any means necessary" and that's the reason why most movies are so terrible. Hollywood spends more time trying to find a "formula" for making money than trying to find a "formula" for making a movie people will want to see (which would make them money).

[@nelisezpasce]

It's not about money. It's Demoralization, Destabilization, and Normalization.

[@alangagnon5203]

I believe you’re correct. There’s always been bad movies made and quality films that underperformed, but there used to be a “build it and they will come” attitude where if you focused on making a good movie then chances are good it will be profitable. Not anymore. Now the industry won’t sink money into a good production unless it’s a sure thing and has mass appeal.

[@TDjerf]

I would argue that the main thing you notice is the ever growing bureaucracy of an aging empire. Think about it. You don't need to have a degree to start a million or even billion dollar tech company, I know several just at the top of my head where the founders either didn't get any higher education or dropped of before they got their degrees, but you do need a degree or two in order to get hired at those companies. It's the same in Hollywood only it's worse since the founders and those with real skill in the making of movies are not really running the show. The guy calling the shots at Disney for example isn't the best movie maker they can afford, no it's a guy with a degree in business administration. In Hollywood today there's no gold rush, no new frontier to win or new ground to break and so it sits and bloats, consuming itself while the consumers are given the choice of not watching big budget American movies or to accept whatever they say we want, or need.

[@donlewis6821]

“Basically it was like handing over the keys to the Titanic 5 minutes before it hit the iceberg.”…..🤣🤣😂😂

[@patrickgowen324]

Not to be that guy but I’m going to be that guy *5 Seconds not Minutes.

[@sauce8277]

Dark and serious doesn’t work if there isn’t memorable meaning and payoff involved. At that point, Dark and serious = not fun

[@edwardgyan9749]

I see a problem with this. Movies can be really interesting without being ‘fun’. An example, “The Hunt” with Mad Mikkelson. It’s a hard movie to watch(for me), but it’s not boring. Fun is fine, but it isn’t a requirement for a good movie.

[@sauce8277]

@@edwardgyan9749 I would need a different example to understand your perspective. I am not familiar wi h that movie.

[@tonyromano6220]

Batman did D&S ok.

[@sauce8277]

@@tonyromano6220 I think I agree. Although the meaning and payoff area was a little sketchy.

[@vipersb1]

To me, WW84 is by far the worst "superhero" film I've ever seen. One of the worst movies, period.

[@WayStedYou]

I havent seen it. But surely green lantern still tops it for bad superhero movies?

[@fr0ck360]

@@WayStedYou Green Lantern’s kinda meh but not horrible. What about Catwoman?

[@chrissawyer1484]

@@fr0ck360 Catwoman...(shivers).

[@UnlessRoundIsFunny]

Patti Jenkins is a hack with a misplaced confidence in her own abilities, and WW84 proved it. That movie was an embarrassing mess, and it did the one thing I thought not possible: it made Gal Gadot look like a dingbat. She deserved better. WW84 knocked her off her well deserved perch at the top of the DC universe, leaving the studio room to move on with someone else at the exact moment Gadot should have had the most leverage. Thanks, Patti! Great work!

[@Сайтамен]

It's so bad that enjoyable. Snydercut is super long and boring.