Trauma, Parents, and Attachment

[@adjjal]

I just wanted to say thank you because something you said during a reaction to love is blind really resonated with me, when you mentioned that often people w a difficult upbringing might fall into difficult relationships to subconsciously try and heal through a slightly different but similar pattern. And honestly that thought made me feel so much better, because I never put 2 and 2 together and understood why people repeat their childhood traumas in relationships , and I thought it just meant they became weaker over time as they became more used to it, but now I completely understand and it has helped me feel less guilt for 'throwing years of my life away' as I used to see it, now I realise I was attempting to heal and actually it was partially successful in a way. That small phrase during your reaction seriously shifted my whole narrative in an instant it was a crazy feeling.

[@Indigo00eyez]

And you paraphrasing it has now, just now started me thinking about my life choices differently!! WOW, THANK YOU ARA!! 💓💓

[@adjjal]

@@Indigo00eyez oh my gosh, I'm so happy that happened for you! Thank YOU so much for letting me know, that's so amazing for me to hear💗💗

[@Indigo00eyez]

@@adjjal I took a screenshot of your words to keep with me!

[@adjjal]

@@Indigo00eyez this absolutely made my day, thank u sm for letting me know, and you've got this💖

[@lezismore6971]

I don’t think I’ve ever commented on a KZbin video before, but hearing Bob talk about having empathy for his dad 100% rang true for me. I have taken on my mom’s emotions all my life and felt responsible for them as well. She’s a recovered alcoholic, and would say things like, “you’re going to drive me to drink” or “you’re gonna push me over the edge”. My sister and I always feared her drinking or self harm. Fast forward to now, I’m 37 and in recovery for an ED and just started on anxiety/depression meds before the holidays. My mom and I got into an emotional fight on Christmas Day, and haven’t really been talking since. She wrote and mailed me a long letter to tell me how she’s feeling and all the things she’s struggling with mentally, emotionally and physically. I read it feeling guilty and like she’s blaming me for her pain and for our divided relationship right now. But I can also see and understand the hurt and struggles that she has, and grew up with. I’m stuck right now because I still want a close and loving relationship with my mom, but I fear if I go to a place of empathy for her again, I will completely lose myself and disrespect my needs and emotions and hurt. I’m afraid that my empathy won’t be matched/returned and I will feel rejected again, and unworthy of love.

[@sherrytaylor3738]

Same about never commenting and about resonating about Bob talking about his dad. Wow, for me this was so helpful. Thanks Bob for your vulnerability.

[@Watchingvids01]

I just want to give Bob a big hug! Thank you for your vulnerability

[@s.melonita4454]

What a feeling to be able to listen in on you two. I feel lifted and wiser after each podcast. Thank you for that 🙏 I became sad, angry and resentful on a few new different levels at my parents, (especially my dad) when I became a mom. I knew all my life I was neglected and used as a pawn in their divorce. I got childhood therapy and that's what saved me 100%. But to witness my kids at the age when I lived through divorce and was traumatized left and right, was a whole new twist to my life story. However, it made my parents more human at the same time, when I noticed my mistakes I made with my kids. Additionally, I feel good about not being stuck like they were, (thinking they were the PERFECT parents who could do no wrong) and being able to apologize and repair my relationship with my kids any chance I get. To have a two-way street, as Bob put it, that's ALWAYS open.

[@djbabyheat]

I think Dr. Honda needs his own TV show!

[@D2Mephisto]

this episode is a perfect representation of Terry Harhrave's model on Forgiveness. Bob's perspective toward not going back to the old dynamic with his father back when Bob was a kid/teen, that's a lot like using what Hargrave calls Understanding to go back to the past in conversation to come to an understanding of how you were hurt by someone or something, in order to avoid those same pitfalls with the same person in the future. It's an act of caring for your own self. That's pretty commendable Bob. I think you're just such a great human. So glad to listen in on this great conversation between both of you wonderful fellas.

[@Authentistic-ism]

The way I look at it is, I wasn't there for my parent's inner child's origin. My parent, though, was present for my inner child's origin.

[@planettes]

Thank you for wording it this way.. ❤︎︎❤︎︎

[@LT-tf8co]

Talk about "parents" was speaking right to me. I'd like to listen to the other episode refered to about Bob's neglectful parents. Thanks for sharing.

[@on-the-cusp8]

I appreciate the writer who shared about her situation with her mother and Bob for sharing his situation with his father. This got me thinking about my relationship with my father and I reached a new understanding of a situation that occurred several months ago. Thank you so much for all you do.

[@MoonWomanStudios]

I'm done with my mom, if she calls for me when she's in the nursing home she can go hoarse. She should have been there when I was a kid, she could have kept me when I was 15, she could have helped when I was a single mom with 2 disabled kids trying to get through massage school without enough to eat, she could have done any number of things to keep our relationship but she chose to be neglectful, she chose to gossip and trash talk me to the rest of the family- ruining any relationship I could have had with them, she chose to be a perpetual victim instead of owning herself. So I'm done and I'm ok with whatever that brings. If I feel guilty for cutting her out of my life after she dies, that's what therapy is for.

[@nursetinalouise]

same

[@chrissyprice7483]

Yup

[@stefanie0158]

I can t wait for my dad to die .if it wasn't for the law and jail I would've killed him long ago and threw a huge party after it

[@SableRain]

My friend gave me EMDR. It made me suicidal. She is certified, but reliving my traumas was horrible. I'm seeing an excellent GP and an amazing psychologist now. It's slow, but so much safer.

[@LittleJazzyBirdie]

It sounds like your friend did not appropriately assess your readiness, the risk involved for you, or didn’t work closely enough with you to develop applicable resourcing before diving in. Whatever it was, it’s clear that somehow, protocol wasn’t followed properly. I’m so sorry. It is not recommended that friends do EMDR on friends because so many important things can be missed or glossed over. EMDR does not cause one to be suicidal unless something was missed in the assessment stage. When risk comes up, it’s supposed to be worked through before starting EMDR. I’m sorry that was missed. I’m glad you are now working with a great psychologist in conjunction with a great GP now. I hope you find the relief you are working toward. ❤️

[@donghyucksmom2413]

@@LittleJazzyBirdie Just in general students learn at university to not start therapy with people you're informal with... It definitely messes with the objective/neutral aspect of a being therapist. EMDR, especially with more emotional unstable patients, should start with a preparing phase. You don't just dive into it. Patients need to manage outside of sessions too. @Rainy Mae ; lots of succes on your journey ♥ Don't be frustrated if things seem to be moving on 'slow', every (tiny) step is a big victory for yourself!

[@LittleJazzyBirdie]

@@donghyucksmom2413 definitely. I’m a therapist, who is EMDR trained, so I’m aware of what you’re advising me of.

[@LittleJazzyBirdie]

@@donghyucksmom2413 I just want to be clear that I never said one should “just dive in.” Thanks.

[@donghyucksmom2413]

@@LittleJazzyBirdie I repied on your comment but what I said probably applied more on Rainy Mae's story. I was more adding info to your comment for her! Definitely understood and agreed with what you're saying

[@shadowgirl11]

I was emotional abused by my narcissistic father, and now (27) after years of therapy I can understand where he came from. But I once tried to extend empathy to him one time and he just kept seeking more and more and tried manipulating me. I shut it down and told him that I couldn’t erase the trauma he caused. He dismissed and guilted me that he isn’t getting younger. I probably won’t try that again.

[@SabiLewSounds]

I love your depth of understanding in the topic of attachment and attachment trauma. Thank you both 💚

[@leaholiver7404]

I found it so interesting as Bob, you were sharing about your concerns with being swallowed up if you were to empathize with your father, Kirk got the message from his mom and then changed the topic for awhile...you went there with his focus and let him come back to the focus of what you two were talking about. We saw your concern play out in that moment...

[@s.melonita4454]

I held my breath there a little bit, I noticed

[@DaisyMae0116]

The interruption felt a bit rude to me.

[@leaholiver7404]

@@DaisyMae0116 "parallel process" is the psychology language that came to my mind. It would have been great for either of them to acknowledge what happened in that moment but I think it highlights how powerful those relational dynamics of trauma can be played out.

[@Saffron.Aerowyn_07]

@Erica Correnti Perhaps Dr. Honda meant for there to be a pause, because he saw that it overwhelmed Bob...I doubt that he meant any harm, just maybe wanted to be respectful of Bob's feelings.

[@Meganb1286]

Dr Kirk thank you for this. Can you recommend other pods you’ve done about how being alone w/ moms who don’t care about their child? Anything like how to cope and or to learn more about why a mom would be selfish and abandon their child? I would appreciate it so very much

[@jessikahx3]

appreciate you two n this conversation so much ✨

[@Meganb1286]

Fascinating. My mother could care less about me or how I feel about her. She thinks I’m useless and we have a terrible relationship that I can’t do anything about. This is deep stuff. I have no empathy for her and vice versa. All she does is criticize and offend me.

[@srr_3489]

Can I say, listening to you is so painful for me. I just keep crying 😢, for the child that was neglected, abused physically, emotionally, verbally, sexually. I cry for my young 20 year old self you developed crazy anxiety 😥 and was ashamed of bring so anxious even though I didn’t have the vocabulary then. Now in my mid 30s single, sad, angry, I just avoid the world I love alone and intentionally don’t want to make relationships because they always hurt. I’m tired of life. Your videos are so enlightening because they give language to EVERYTHING I HAVE HAF IN MY MIND FOR DECADES. But they leave me sad and angry wishing I never was born. I think human experience for the most part is so painful Why are we still here .....

[@Saffron.Aerowyn_07]

So very sorry to hear about all those painful things in your past...for me, I have learned that all the hurts from my past are actually life lessons that made me the strong survivor that I am today...I have my moments, but soon am reminded that everything is for a reason & I can choose my narrative...victim or victorious...that's just my 2 cents. Wish you healing & peace. 🙏🌻🏆

[@stargirl6659]

Cold war relationship I like that term

[@Star-dj1kw]

interesting video ✅

[@LittleJazzyBirdie]

To say that EMDR-trained therapists don’t fully understand trauma is a little off-putting to me, not just because I am an EMDR-trained therapist. I think what you’re saying, Dr. Honda, is similar to saying, “not all attachment-focused therapists understand attachment.” Yes, those statements are true, but there are also other possible explanations for discomfort between sessions. To highlight that one possibility, as if there are few or no other explanations is kind of misleading. What you’re getting at is going to happen in any speciality pocket, and is not exclusive to trauma work. In any profession, there are bad apples. I’m having trouble wrapping my head around why this would be your go to response when giving feedback about a client’s reported depression after EMDR. Another viable possibility is the quality of client disclosure in session, or lack of trust for one or both parties. Yet another could be that the client’s endorsement of depressive symptoms could actually indicate that EMDR is eliciting access to a healthy emotional way of being (as in, grief can and does happen as part of resolution to trauma). What about where the client started from? What is their baseline? What was it before? Are the endorsed depressive symptoms less than what they came in with and they are frustrated that they still exist? EMDR does not erase emotions. I mean, there are multiple explanations, so resting on the notion that the therapist doesn’t understand trauma is really not giving a good full response to the writer’s question. While you did posit other possibilities, you seemed to give a lot of energy to saying that [some] EMDR therapists don’t know what they’re doing. Saying it, as if it doesn’t already go without saying, gives the idea more weight than it requires. That’s harmful, since EMDR is so misunderstood by the average citizen anyway. I think what you said could possibly scare people away from trying it. EMDR requires skill. We are trained and we take it seriously. We are also licensed therapists *first,* which carries a whole host of ethical responsibilities, including avoidance of causing client harm whenever possible. Most of us who utilize EMDR as a tool with our clients take great care in understanding their trauma, and work to meet them within their window of tolerance. We also take great care to understand that it is not a symptom-free experience. I say all of that with all due respect. I’m still a dedicated, deserving listener. Thanks for hearing me out. 😊 *Edited for typos.

[@planettes]

Thank you, Yasna. I’m happy I read this.

[@SailorSlay]

Is Bob your brother in law???

[@s.melonita4454]

No, they know each other from graduate school :)