Putting an Asterisk on Potential NBA GOATs!

[@ReboundRewind]

Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:26 LeBron James 4:11 Steph Curry 5:03 Bill Russell 6:54 Larry Bird 7:44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 8:55 Magic Johnson 10:37 Kobe Bryant 12:00 Wilt Chamberlain 13:04 Michael Jordan 15:44 Outro

[@muizmin]

Hakeem vs Duncan the best GOAT debate fr fr💯

[@kameronwright9925]

No Shaq? Unless I'm going blind

[@Shinobi33]

Milk men and plumbers? They didn't pay players back then genius. They had to get jobs to supplement their incomes. These milkmen and plumbers were the best players in the world then.

[@andrejamison2723]

Kareem played against Wilt Willis Reed Nate Thurmond Dave Cowens Bob Lanier Wes Unsel Bill Walton At his position in the 70s. Each one of these players were on the top 50 at 50 at the center position. Competition breeds excellence.

[@rioalcones9136]

ilove micky mouse🤣🎉👏😭

[@TheHolySC]

Notice how he didn't go after Brian Scalabrine. The reason is because his greatness is so amazing it simply cannot be challenged.

[@wills5819]

What 😂

[@11platupus]

@@wills5819 scalabrine is a fucking legend bruh

[@wills5819]

@@11platupus you trippin🤣🤣🤣

[@alexandermunoz7208]

@@wills5819 you tripping bro

[@therealcharlestonblack1724]

Who we talking about 😕

[@tristanharris8440]

So does that mean Hakeem and Duncan are the GOATs if they weren't mentioned? Edit: This sarcastic comment is confusingly popular.

[@jimlee7275]

Exactly (sarcasm) 😂😂

[@andreacultreri6727]

Yeah probably cause there isn't pretty much anything against them, expecialy Tim

[@kittenking24]

Melo and wade are probably close

[@floppublican6352]

@@andreacultreri6727 Hakeem’s 8 first round exits, Duncan’s underwhelming playoff performances especially 04 against lakers, plus the fact he wasn’t able to repeat as champions ever. But overall those are the only legitimate flaws that I know of both had phenomenal success and retired as greats

[@blitx62]

Hakeem GOAT carried the rockets back to back won an MVP DPOY FINALS MVP and is the only player to have 300 blocks and 200 steals in a season easily the best defender OAT and led him team to the finals as a sophomore he could’ve won more if he had more competition give Hakeem reggie miller he’s killing the bulls

[@LamechPalmer]

I love the Bill Russell disclaimer. Lol. Even as a purely hypothetical exercise, you have to give the guy his due respect.

[@hamzerpanzer]

He gives the disclaimer because he doesn't want to disrespect people who have recently passed on

[@codealias3234]

The ray allen ring is kind of unfair. I’m not a Lebron fan (s/o to my grizzlies) but he scored 16 pts had 3 assists and 2 blocks in JUST the 4th quarter to bring his team back into contention. Not to mention he clutched a 3 pointer right before ray Allen’s legendary 3 pointer.

[@Jeyclippedit]

All of them are unfair thats the point

[@501jaylee]

@@Jeyclippeditnah the Kareem point is pretty fair, only realistically 3 of his 6 rings were won because of him. He was just a great center on an insanely stacked roster.

[@unchboy]

That's my knock on LeBron. He missed the 3 before the rebound went to Allen.

[@501jaylee]

@@unchboy but Lebron is the reason why Ray Allen was able to clutch it up, they were down heavy and were gonna lose until lebron caught fire in the 4th

[@userunknown1578]

Ray wasn't even as major of a factor as the refs were in the Heat winning that Finals... The series should've never even made it to 7 games... Ginobli was fouled in the closing seconds of game 6.. Spurs would've won the series right then and there.

[@blakehorn2454]

Makes sense of you to not include the 🐐 Alex Caruso as he has already set in stone his elite status

[@someneep6259]

I see ur a true fan of the TRUE G.O.A.T

[@peytonfechter3438]

Yes MORE CARUSO FANS

[@peytonfechter3438]

For my school's basketball team I shaved my head bald and got a headband,

[@sonnywoods6846]

You are still saying this old ass sht

[@king-ghost1027]

@@pumpkin7099 ALEX

[@Yortie]

“The chosen one became the frozen one.” I understood that reference

[@flibbidyx2]

The point is, if you're looking for an asterisk, you can probably find one, whether it's fair or not. Same could be said of most individual championship seasons.

[@LifeIsMusic227]

True but thats the whole point of the video

[@303rookie]

Word. Some of the points were reaching like crazy. Comparing apples to oranges, crossing eras and contradicting his own arguments. Real talk, I'm glad Julius Irving was not in this video. Not saying he is the goat, I just didn't wanna hear no over analytical explanation.

[@steveandmarniecooper4522]

The real point is most ppl make their decisions based upon raw data. Fewer but smarter ppl add context to their choice. But the fewest and smartest, like this vid, understand the role of nuance in any decision or choice. Best ever vid to demonstrate that reality!

[@ShiestyInCincy]

@@LifeIsMusic227 notice how they stated as the first words " the point is "

[@LifeIsMusic227]

@@ShiestyInCincy correcting me 9 months later is crazy

[@True-Believer616]

Great video concept. Pointing out these criticisms people use to knock some greats down in order to prop their favorites up.

[@muizmin]

Man singlehandedly defeats haters from each fan bases using their method 👏🏾👏🏾 Notice that he shown tim & hakeem but didn't mention them thooo👀

[@cadestine9511]

@@muizmin cause they aren’t in the goat conversation. MAYBE Tim Duncan but it’s a stretch. And Hakeem only got popular bc of tik tok kids reading stats. In 3 years he went from the most underrated of all time to the most overrated.

[@king-ghost1027]

I'm so glad he straightened this out with lebron and his fans,, lebron will never be the goat, he got saved by kyrie and Ray,,, he's a lefraud

[@muizmin]

@@cadestine9511 I mean, he shown both hakeem & tim in the video among other 🐐 candidates, but he didn't talk bout the 2

[@kameronwright9925]

@@cadestine9511 tim should be in the top 10 discussion but with records being broken on the daily and the way the game is going now a days who knowsv

[@booo865]

0:26 LeBron James 4:11 Steph Curry 5:03 Bill Russell 6:54 Larry Bird 7:44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 8:55 Magic Johnson 10:37 Kobe Bryant 12:00 Wilt Chamberlain 13:04 Michael Jordan 15:44 Outro 517

[@TheZuluninja]

As someone who has retired from GOAT conversations, I absolutely loved this video

[@thomaschamberlain3045]

@thezuluninja i asked my grandpa around 2000/01 who was the best basketball player ever and he regaled me with stories of Wilt the Stilt. he watched basketball since the late 50s and if he said Wilt was the GOAT, that's good enough for me. i too have retired from GOAT talk and think a much more fun convo is what would be your all-time starting team, not simply the best at each position cuz those players might not go well together

[@rurenzu]

me too

[@joebauers3746]

I am clearly the GOAT, I just did'nt make it to the NBA so that all of you could witness it.

[@HonoredKami]

@@joebauers3746yeah only if I didn’t exist

[@cjtrules1]

Doesn't matter if you still talk about who the GOAT is or not. Why are you making that a qualifier?

[@bobbyd1632]

Hold up so MJ beating Magicn in 1991 was way past Magic's prime, Magic was 2nd MVP that season yeah?

[@finallife87]

and magic was what 32 or 33 that year?

[@bobbyd1632]

@@finallife87 31

[@Ampampas]

Hiv

[@bobbyd1632]

@@Ampampas he was diagnosed in November 1991. The finals were in June. Magic was 2nd in MVP in 1991. Magic averaged MORE assists and rebounds in 1991 compared to 1990 when he won MVP. In 1991 playoffs Magics ppg in the playoffs were the 2nd highest of his entire career. Add to that HIV first appears as flu like symptoms a few weeks then after that 90% of people who have caught the virus don’t see any symptoms such as fatigue and muscle loss for up to several YEARS - look it up Your point is very flawed my man

[@kauffamn1016]

And he won back to back Mvps previously , stolen from mj who was more deserving .

[@sgshumblecrumb6046]

In defense of Lebron, for every asterisked title he won with a stacked team against weaker competition, there was a year where he dragged what would've been a lottery team without him to the Finals, only to face an unbeatable Warriors team with Durant or the Spurs in 07.

[@Cokevanished]

Yeah the cavs would’ve been an awful team for most of its lifespan if it wasn’t for lebron. Same thing with the heat

[@jasonpascual5426]

lol still defending the queen 🤣

[@jasonpascual5426]

lebum wouldn't reach the final if he's not in the "LEASTERN CONFERENCE" and this 10 finals appearance is not your escape goat in the first place.. a lot of times his team srs is not better than the ones warrior or spur face in their conference...

[@jasonpascual5426]

im waiting for this lebum meat riders to answer 😂😂😂

[@jasonpascual5426]

@Jxmyhighroller already point that out same as credible as johnny Arnett and he is a cerfitied lebron Stan 😂😂😂

[@VampireYoshi]

Larry Bird averaged that low because he, like Magic and later Michael, 'created' for other players and literally made them better players. When they were elsewhere, they dropped off precipitously, and if you call for hard stats, they can be provided. Also, those lifetime stats include when Bird was basically playing with a half broken back, for all intents.

[@megsley]

bird was the epitome of a team player and everyone around him benefitted for it.

[@Chill_Brill]

@@megsley Bird is the most overrated player who is an all-time great he should rank somewhere in the 8-10 range

[@jubjubhenry5612]

@@Chill_Brill i’d put him anywhere from 3-7, never lower and if anything underrated because people who try and cap are almost always clueless and never saw him play or understand why people say he’s top 10 for life. when you dig into it it really is shocking how good Larry Bird was at ball

[@Chill_Brill]

@@jubjubhenry5612Putting Larry bird at 3 is insane with only 3 rings and barely 20k points. There's all time great with more rings, better stats, and were just in general better players. Here's my ranking 1 Jordan 2 Lebron 3 Kobe 4 Kareem 5 Magic 6 Duncan 7 Shaq 8 Bird 9 Curry 10 Hakeem

[@jubjubhenry5612]

@@Chill_Brill well it’s not a longevity competition or a rings competition so i don’t think the rules are that claustrophobic to be honest. for me it’s more of a peak/dominance type of issue. because then you have ridiculous crap like me asking you where karl malone is on your list. cases are specific and take some love to really try and make sense of eras and whatnot. not to mention you say insane then place him literally FIVE whole places lower so maybe not that insane eh 🤣🤣 i’d lay out my case for Larry at #3 but you and I would never agree on much looking at that list. bron at #2 is hilarious, magic over larry is weird and can’t be supported beyond “5 rings”, etc

[@alecjoncas7764]

Players can be switched 1/2 spots depending on how I feel during the day… 10: Wilt Chamberlin 9: Tim Duncan 8: Magic Johnson 7:Bill Russel 6:Lebron James 5:Kareem 4:Kobe 3:Shaq 2:Larry Bird 1: MJ

[@GreenGamer69]

Ok nice list but my list is a little different I would say 10. Steph 9. Wilt 8. Magic 7. Tim Duncan 6. Bird 5. Shaq 4. Bill Russel 3. Kareem 2. MJ 1. Lebron

[@Sauav3]

The transitions between players are so entertaining

[@2cansam196]

He really went on Lebrons head with that 3:45 long minute overview

[@connndama1112]

There’s just so much to cover 😂

[@williamdean5543]

Fr like what did he lebron do to deserve sm disrespect 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@walkertexasranger1514]

@@williamdean5543all time leading scorer, all time playoff scorer be the best player in the league for 17 years straight. about everything to get him on the same plane as jordan and they can’t accept that so they’ll discredit everything he does to raise up jordan

[@goten3965]

@@williamdean5543 everything he said that’s what he did to deserve that much disrespect you can’t do all of what he said and crown yourself as the goat

[@chillbutton2986]

@@goten3965 I hate the 3 peat argument. It doesn't factor in competition. If he 3 peated against teams like 87 lakers or 86 Celtics then that's God tier. He's not 3 peat against teams like Spurs or gsw

[@vibintrent]

Notice how Tim Duncan wasn’t included

[@maelguiraud3568]

he should be .

[@whenisdinner2137]

The argument that Michael Jordan only had good stats against Bad teams falls apart immediately when you realize he has a way higher scoring average in the playoffs and even in the finals then he does in the regular season

[@redtiger4352]

Exactly. That jordan alone and pippen alone comparison is stupid like were they playing by themselves ot had other team mates? Look at MJ team mates in 84-88 they were high on cocaine

[@sportstalkonly1442]

@@redtiger4352 how is a guy that leads the league in rebounds or average 23 a game on coke?

[@sportstalkonly1442]

@@redtiger4352 that cokehead teammate argument is false

[@sportstalkonly1442]

Jordan's stats went down in elimination games

[@whenisdinner2137]

@@sportstalkonly1442 yet they're still way above everybody else's 💀

[@Kaizala1933]

Love the animations, quite funny😂

[@gregrowe1168]

The multiple retirements for Jordan does make you wonder if he would have retired at a younger age had he played all the way through. Still , except for the last stint with the Wizards, he was at an mvp level every full year he played. Maybe he doesn’t have the stats overall but he didn’t play 20 years like Kareem and Lebron. He still has the highest scoring average per game in NBA history.

[@redmangc]

"Retirements" Dont you mean Suspensions. ( Im making a joke )

[@eeempy99]

but, once again, only while playing with the best team in the NBA at the time while there was almost no competition.

[@georgejizmundo]

If Jordan played more season, pretty sure his averages would go down. He could not be great that long

[@drakecastleberryofficial]

@@eeempy99 You realize that MJ Played in the 80's and 90's with Shaq, Clyde Drexler, Dantley, Hakeem, McHale, and Wilkins, and Vince Carter (in the late 90s)

[@somregularguy]

@@drakecastleberryofficialthose are good names but notice how MJ never beat any of those names in their primes and the ones he did weren’t that great to begin with, like Clyde, Wilkins and and Carter who wasn’t even in his prime when they played against each other, Shaq was too young to legitimately challenge a much deeper and solid Bulls team, Jordan dodged Hakeem in his healthy and well equipped seasons, it’s no secret that Hakeem got the better of the bulls head to head

[@24manhoi]

For anyone who wants to count rings, Robert Horry got more rings than most of these guys. And Pippen was really good but the dude was a bricklayer most of the time. But Jordan and Pippen needed each other.

[@bricefleckenstein9666]

Horry was never the core of a team, though. He just had good timing on being traded to teams that wanted his role player skills.

[@rd81kwc]

As a jazz fan I do think John Stockton is the goat passer

[@CordellWallers]

Dude Pippen was the best player in the world maybe other than Hakeem the two years Jordan was gone

[@37hiddensecrets]

You can’t compare one season of Kevin Love to Larry Birds entire career…

[@jonm7888]

That was really misleading. Love averages 17 pts, 10reb, 2ast, for his career.

[@3D80sKid]

And the "prime" Kevin Love stats were big meaningless stats for a losing team. Versus the star player on championship contenders who actually moved the ball around.

[@eeempy99]

yall really get triggered by this video? 💀💀

[@Tatum_prodz]

@@eeempy99 how are they triggered kid

[@Trollololololful]

@@eeempy99 found the 12 year old

[@stevenhowardwayne46]

I’m so glad this was made…because when I try to have these discussions, people lose their minds

[@matthewluecke3704]

Scottie's regular season and playoff records without Michael are significantly boosted by his time in Houston with Dream and Barkley and Portland. Michael had to carry some guys around before Pippen arrived. Great video!

[@rakhmamort]

Add the fact that the no-MJ Bulls that Pippen led was much much better than the pre-Pippen Bulls

[@salehelkhatib7951]

Pippen also had the benefit of playing with the exceptional role players Phil Jackson built around Jordan. He didn't have to play from the ground up as Mike did.

[@Big_3000]

Excellent points in this thread

[@HYQ11]

people gave that one pippen season way too much credit:1)like this team only won one playoff matchup, something achievable by even mediocre teams here and there every year, 2) one season sample size doesnt show nearly enough consistency, 3) this pippen was great because he got to play with mj day in and day out for years, if guarding the best offensive player in history everyday in practice dont make you a great defender and likely also a good offensive player, i dont know what will

[@eeempy99]

MJ didnt win shit without his supporting cast. He had to be given the best team in NBA to succeed. every other player from this list would succeed the same in MJs position.

[@SeizureBoy4]

For those who say Wilt played against 5"11 white guys, here are the starting and backup centers than guarded him during these games: * Knicks (100 points): - Darrall Imhoff 6"11 - Phil Jordan 6"11 * Lakers (78 points): - Ray Felix 7"0 - Jim Krebs 6"9 * Wizards (73 points): - Walt Bellamy 6"11 - Charlie Tyra 6"9 * Sixers (70 points): - Johnny Kerr 6"10 - Swede Halbrook 7"3 * Bulls (68 points): - Reggie Harding 7"1 - Craig Spitzer 7"0 * Hawks (67 points): - Clyde Lovellette 6"10 - Larry Foust 6"10 * Suns (66 points): - Jim Fox 6"10 - George Wilson 6"9 * Kings (65 points): - Wayne Embry 6"8 - Hub Reed 6"10 * Celtics (62 points): - Bill Russell 6"10 - John Richter 6"10 * Warriors (62 points): - Nate Thurmond 6"11 - Connie Dierking 6"10 * Pistons (59 points): - Reggie Harding 7"1 - Darrall Imhoff 6"11 * Thunder (53 points): - Bob Rule 6"10 - Henry Akin 6"11 * Rockets (36 points): - Elvin Hayes 6"10 - George Johnson 6"11 * Blazers (33 points): - Leroy Ellis 6"11 - Dale Schlueter 6"10 * Clippers (31 points): - Elmore Smith 7"0 - Nate Bowman 6"10 * Bucks (29 points): - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7"2 - Dick Cunningham 6"10 * Cavaliers (24 points): - Walt Wesley 7"0 - Luther Rackley 6"11

[@YT-Redmason]

Cap

[@tobingallawa3322]

Wilt faced an all star or hall of fame opponent every night, because the talent pool was not as diluted with 8 teams, or whatever it was. Russell was the number 1 or 2 high hurdle guy on the planet in his day. Chamberlain was probably the greatest athlete who ever lived. Who could have beaten him in a decathalon? He would win most of the events

[@YT-Redmason]

@@ShaneAlan1 Cap, he’s a better shooter then curry

[@donovanko6809]

Bro if wilt played in todays era with today’s technology he would be like Gianni’s and he would be able to shoot free throws because of the trainers

[@vvvawdad1767]

@@ShaneAlan1 so what? If he got 100 points without any shooting skills its all the more impressive

[@Thefrogonnascore]

Bro your transitions from subject to subject are top shelf

[@iNostraD]

Magic was still in his prime during the 1991 season. He had won MVP the season before and was one of the frontrunners that season, he retired because of the HIV but could’ve played several more seasons.

[@TheTonytone77]

yeah but he had rookies and injuries in 91 ...magic even says they werent supposed to make the playoff untill he willed his team there

[@krump743]

​@@TheTonytone77 worthy played all the games in the finals and averaged 18ppg.... how much more help did magic need. Jordan/pippen v magic/worthy.

[@TheTonytone77]

@@krump743 worthy was playing injured...

[@krump743]

@@TheTonytone77 u Cross the line ur not injured mate..... injuries are pathetic excuses to use. Right to cross the line to play but once ya lose its "oh I was injured" fk outta here

[@krump743]

@@TheTonytone77 I'd also like u to explain how the lakers won game 1 if they were so old and injured yet couldn't win another single game the rest of the series....

[@Tydrix]

This video just reminded me how amazing the 80's finals were when a prime Magic faced against a prime Bird.

[@geordiejones5618]

It was top heavy just like the 90s. The 00s and 10s were way more competitive overall

[@Tydrix]

@@geordiejones5618 for sure. Now it’s even more competitive. But in retrospect the 80’s Lakers and Celtics finals rivalry was epic.

[@literallyatrashboat8711]

@@geordiejones5618 bron made the finals almost every year for the 10s and you’re saying it was more competitive than the 80s? Lmao

[@poocrayon4588]

@@geordiejones5618 The 90's was more top heavy - the 80's was top heavy but once you got to a finals level you had real quality the likes of which didn't exist in the 90's or 2000's or 2010's. Celtics, Lakers, Philly, Bad Boy Pistons, Houston, Atlanta and Cavs. Celtics, Lakers, Pistons are 3 teams the like of which the 00's and 10's didn't have. They had the Lakers, Spurs and in the 10's Warriors - but not 3 teams at once on that level. Possibly you could also throw Philly in there for the fist half of the 80's too. I really believe the greatest overall concentration of extreme player talent at the top of the league could be found in the mid 80's.

[@rastafarri4953]

West 80s was trash

[@tescomealdeals4613]

For that game 7 in his third ring for Lebron, there is no way you can say that Lebron was carried in the end of that game when Kyrie hit that shot, when you forget that beautiful block Lebron got to stop Iguodala from scoring at the end.

[@CHI-JORDAN-CHI]

That block was fantastic. It stopped 2 points but it didn't get the points needed to win. Remember that in 98 with the Bulls down by 4 Jordan drove for 2 AND stole the ball from Malone AND made the game winning shot. That's the difference. LeBron definitely needed his teammates to win a lot more than Jordan did.

[@claudewillis234]

​@@CHI-JORDAN-CHI it's obvious your a jordan fan so idk if your trolling or genuinely don't know what your talking about but the cavs won that game by 4 not 3 kyrie's 3 was definitely clutch but without it if everything else goez the same they still win by 1 lbj free-throw

[@CHI-JORDAN-CHI]

@@claudewillis234 lmao tell me you’re a casual without telling me you’re a casual WTF. That is not how basketball is played dude. If they are up by 1 instead of 4 on the last possession you think Curry stays behind the line with Love defending him for a desperation 3 off the dribble? They run a play and in Kerr's system that often ends up with an easy layup off great ball movement. The 3 won the game. Using math the way you did is one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen.

[@vante2129]

The way you made your argument genuinely had me thinking I was having a conversation with some basketball fans in Facebook groups 😂😂🤦🏽‍♂️

[@drewlavay]

Wait, so if we're assuming Russell played against players that had part time jobs does that mean players on his team had part time jobs as well...?

[@simonhowell4486]

No only Russell's teammates were full time ball players. And given that Wilt played on the opposite team he was a part timer too.

[@dreadiejaquan9240]

So Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, and Will Reed were all part-timers as well ?

[@vsmith3rd]

Russell sucked at scoring. There's your reason why he isn't GOAT.

[@EarthDestroyer59]

@@vsmith3rdliterally doesn’t matter

[@bricefleckenstein9666]

BAD false assumption. NBA players of the Russell era were full-time professionals, that made MORE than many lawyers, MOST electricians and other "professionals", and had NO NEED to work part-time.

[@ilyakats54]

The argument against MJ here is very very weak. Jordan’s teams were horrible early on and Pippen didn’t immediately impact the team to help Jordan, it took a few years.

[@dacohov]

Man called Wilt Chamberlain, Dolph Schayes, Paul Arizin, Bob Petit, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor milkmen and plumbers. SMH.

[@finallife87]

trash list they had to get 2nd jobs because nba wasn't making much money yet. the disrespect in this video.

[@DBFPhoenixx]

@@finallife87thats the point, u dont understand the video 😂

[@mgilkey13]

And the rest of the players from that era?

[@serfrrra]

wilt and nobodies lmao🤣🤣🤣

[@Venus_Goat223]

​@serfrrra Ik you heard of Jerry West and Elgin Baylor

[@bungerroyale112]

Also forgot to mention Curry's first ring simply came down to Kawhi getting injured with the Spurs being up 25 points but Zaza stepped in

[@christianday8140]

That was 2017* his second ring and idk y y’all act like spurs would’ve won jus bc of 1 game

[@AndYouAre]

Need to get your years straight. The had the Pelicans (sweep), Grizz (6 games), and the Rockets (5 games), before they faced the Cavs. Not a single series went 7 games which says a lot when you consider how young and inexperienced their 3 best players were (Curry 27, Klay/Dray 25). People give that team flack for allowing the Cavs to win 2 games, but don't acknowledge that the Warriors in 2015 were the 4th youngest team in history to win a title. Iggy was the only player older than 29 who played more than 20 mins per game in the Finals. Not a single regular season starter was older than 27 (Curry/Bogut).

[@uqutz]

​@@AndYouAre Still, went against 1 man lebron offensively and delly being his 2nd best player as he locked up curry but got hospitalized

[@Geojr815]

His first ring was because of playing on a superteam and Love/Irving sitting out with injuries

[@lowEyez95]

@@AndYouAre I think you might be overdoing it a bit. The pelicans were missing 2 starters and they were much younger than the warriors. Grizzles had major injuries as well and when mike Conley played they won every game, granted it was only 2. That rockets team was ass. Clippers choked that WCF appearance away. They might’ve lost to LAC in 2015. In the finals, the warriors played a Cavs team without Kyrie and Kevin Love. That Cavs team also ran through their conference. That 2015 Warriors chip is prolly the shakiest one if you ask me. 2017-2018, it is what it is but no way they were winning against a healthy Cavs team in 2015… it didn’t happen in 2016

[@jaded9234]

The problems with the G.O.A.T. debate (and the reason why I don't usually hold it too highly myself) is that there are multiple different flaws within it that cannot be resolved. For instance, I'd argue that the a player who accomplishes a feat, before anyone else, accomplished the hardest version of that feat. Once you see that something is possible, that eliminates any doubt in attempting it. couple that with growing up, having that standard in front of you while having other advancements come along to keep you in shape. Take Bird for instance, Larry didn't have a concrete reason to practice the long ball until he was 24, and even then he hardly if ever did, except for occasionally shooting with Ainge. Until that point, they were long 2s, novelties you might impress somebody with, while risking the coach's anger. Even then, he and a select group were immediately able to demonstrate a knack for it, and I would love to have seen how they would've done with the ground already broken. Some players are great in "their time". Others are limited by theirs and would be very interesting to see now. The "what-ifs" will shadow the debate for forever.

[@robinilouga]

Goat debate is all about opinions

[@jaded9234]

@@robinilouga True, but not everyone is willing to accept that fact.

[@anthonyurso3554]

True. I think if you look at everything. It comes down to Wilt and MJ though. They both dominated the court and their loses are justified. How was wilt suppose to beat the “infinity war” team and how the hell was the 80s bulls with a young MJ gonna beat 80s lakers and Celtics and the pistons played dirty to not let him advance. I think Wilt and MJ are the hardest to criticize

[@jaded9234]

@@anthonyurso3554 That all depends on what criteria you're using. I'd argue that the two most dominant "Dynasty" runs belong to Russell and MJ. The two with the most effect on the rulebook are Wilt and Mikan. Every player has/had their strengths and weaknessesOn my personal list, I have Jordan and Bird sharing the top spot like a physical/mental "yin yang". But that's just it, their playstyles were so different on top of the different positions they played, I just have a really hard time designating a singular GOAT with all the differences in position and varying ways in which the legends were able to demonstrate their individual greatness throughout the decades. I'm not going to judge anyone for their choice.

[@andrewhite4431]

​@@anthonyurso3554 Finally someone with common sense. Ty. For me it's Wilt.

[@alanhouston5874]

If Wilt’s rebounds don’t count because everyone missed at the time, shouldn’t he get more credit for his scoring figures?

[@simondewitt7161]

That depends, would you count your scoring numbers if you played against a team of 10 year olds?

[@rxzileu-6645]

@@simondewitt7161 10 years old = fully grown adult with part time jobs.. Well done Sherlock

[@chungboislim2061]

@@rxzileu-6645 7 foot 10 year olds lol

[@Bigpapa622]

The only asterisk next to Michael Jordan as a rookie a one-man show against 4 of the greatest teams during the 80's early 90's Dr J's 76ers that won a championship , the showtime Lakers that won 5 championships , the Boston Celtics that won 3 championships , the bad boy Pistons that won 2 championships during the same era Michael Jordan's dominant his entire era when he played and don't insult my intelligence that MJ wasn't a winner without Scottie Pippen Scottie pippen's just lucky that the Bulls 8th round draft pick that play for college that nobody knew existing avg 7pts a game a couple assist a couple of rebounds his rookie year Jordan's rookie year led the NBA in scoring ,NBA MVP , first-team all-defense NBA rookie of the Year NBA slam dunk Champion , Olympic gold medalist before the NBA, won a NCAA college championship, acc player of all year you forget Michael Jordan helped develop Scottie Pippen into the player he is Michael Jordan was a A-hole MJ said if he can put up with me he can beat anybody which is exactly what happened Scottie Pippen would never existed without Michael Jordan I didn't give me that b******* that his competition was weak your freaking delusional and you damn well know better than that and don't forget to mention how many Hall of famers didn't win a championship because of MJ he played with one All-Star one hall of famer Scottie Pippen that he developed into a great player , Bill Russell 9 Hall of famers , Wilt Chamberlain 5 Hall of famers, magic Johnson 5 Hall of famers, Larry Bird 5 Hall of famers, bad boy Pistons 5 Hall of famers and 5 of the 6 championship's Jordan won had better winning records 60+ wins Bill Russell's era was weak LeBron James era was even weaker

[@GreenGamer69]

Goddam don't need a whole book to describe a yt video also the playoffs is fair but NEVER HAVING A WINNING SEASON WITHOUT SCOTTIE that is a bit dumb

[@anastasismois2423]

That first Jordan argument is completely illogical when you think that Mike had nobody before and after Pippen while Pippen had Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler throughout his non bulls days so of course he is gonna win more.

[@whymojo2164]

Yes but even if you ignore that and just focus on the 1994 season without mj he still has better records in both regular season and playoffs.

[@DBFPhoenixx]

thats the point, its a sarcastic video

[@chayang4812]

Get off your knees. Jordan was trash without pippen. Lebron carried bum ass rosters to the finals. No excuses

[@ATAKA-Bro]

​@@chayang4812 Lebron builded Superteams... and then 3,5/6 😅

[@Connorpeters82672]

@@chayang4812Jordan played with trash until Pipen while putting up historic numbers. Lebron is on team 3 on hall of famer number 20 at this point. It isn’t even close.

[@daglomontaro958]

if people go by micheal jordan needed pippen to win a chip. some people dont know how bad the bulls were before pippen and when micheal first joined😂 their nickname was literally the terrabulls. and they had to go againts larry and magic

[@FrankMilanese]

Yeah, Remember in Jordan's 2nd season when he broke his ankle the team were not close to making the playoffs, Jordan returns and they make it, Pretty decent player to do that in my book

[@kacykain3363]

@@FrankMilanese To add to that, he faced the 1986 Celtics in the first round. He averaged 43.7 ppg that series dropping 63 alone in game 2 and this was against (who some would argue) the best Celtics team ever.

[@BayAreaHoops415]

They were bad but through all time coaching and drafting they became absolutely stacked. in 1994, without MJ, Scottie lead the Bulls to 55 wins and weren’t far off from getting a title. Scottie was so good he lead the team in every category and was in MVP talks, in the Finals, the only thing MJ has more than Scottie is more shots and points. Scottie has more assists, rebounds, steals and blocks

[@somregularguy]

It’s funny how oblivious y’all act, just because the bulls where bad when before Pippen doesn’t mean Jordan didn’t need Pippen to win championships, y’all love to ignore the fact that it was Pippen guarding Magic in 91 and that’s what turned the series around, sure Jordan still was the best player but let’s not act like Pippen was getting carried either 😂

[@keithjoseph128]

Yeah the media does this with all the great except Kobe.

[@jcdagoat14]

No asterisk on Dillon Brooks or Ben Simmons. That’s because they play perfectly and can only lose to each other. Forget about LeBrick James and Michael Jordumb. Here’s the real goat debate.

[@thatcanadianguy8561]

You do realize the whole reason that The Cavaliers won is because also LeBron did block a shot

[@josephmother2659]

The reason they won against the spurs was because of LeBrons missed 3 too he was just playing 5d chess

[@jovinprime]

@@josephmother2659 lebron games

[@ShonkTeHonktalks]

Ray's shot is fantastic, I agree. But lets not forget that LeBron helped the Heat make a crazy comeback. I don't remember how much Bron scored, but I remember it helped the Heat a lot

[@drothageniuspurpgang2900]

@@ShonkTeHonktalks i think it was 14

[@tupacalypse88]

@@ShonkTeHonktalks 16 4th quarter points for lebron

[@EldenRinging]

I've read somewhere that Jordan once said that the 90s Bulls (I think first three peat era) had no answer for Hakeem Olajuwon. So there was a good chance that 94 and 95 the Bulls could've actually lost in the finals, if they were to meet there.

[@joneqwest]

The bulls could not beat the rockets in the regular season, the One team the bulls never got to play in the finals hmmmmmm...

[@kenrickkahn]

Hakeem Olajuwon played like a man among boys.. Dude carried the hell out of the Rockets during the second run to the championship..

[@krump743]

Yer hakeem and the rockets were so good they got the third 3peat since the 60s... oh wait they didn't even make the finals 3 years in a row. Hakeem was so unstoppable right

[@romanramirez7847]

@@krump743 Chuck and the Suns only narrowly beat the Rockets in the 93 Conference Finals. Hakeem was dominant that whole series.

[@krump743]

@@romanramirez7847 narrowly... there is no such thing as narrowly in the history books. Hqkeem and the rockets had a chance to 3peat and didn't get it done....

[@lolno6975]

For other goats: Tim Duncan-had a top 5 team ever with arguably the greatest coach ever, as well as having the support of another hall of famer big in The Admiral, and didn't win fmvp 2 of the times he got a ring Hakeem-only won when MJ retired, its that simple tbh. 0 rings means he can't be the goat respectfully Shaq-only success when he was the main man came with Kobe who is arguably the goat as well, carried tf out of in 06 and only beat MJ when he just came out of retirement. Oh yeah and he's only got 1 mvp

[@JohnnyRodgers3]

Wilt literally played against the most games and played against the most hot centers....his era also had the tallest centers 😭

[@deant3980]

Nope.

[@deant3980]

Manute Bol, mark Eaton, Ralph Samson....Hakeem, Ewing....all 80s bro.

[@JohnnyRodgers3]

@@deant3980 yup

[@JohnnyRodgers3]

@@deant3980 Walt Bellamy,Nate Thurmond,Kareem,bill Russell,Willis reed, ARTIS GILMORE, bob Lanier, ZELMO baety, bob macadoo etc all 60s and early 70s.bro🤷🏾‍♂️

[@dreadiejaquan9240]

@@JohnnyRodgers3 Finally, someone who mentions the centers during the 60s.. And early 70s... some guy discredit Wilt because it was full of part-time workers.. but those centers are talked about today for a reason.. His argument was that they were inefficient, part-time workers, and their free throw percentage was too low

[@jaym8988]

The 91 Lakers average age was 28. Only 1 starter was over the age of 30. In fact, Jordan's 93, 96, 97, and 98 finals opponents were older than these Lakers.

[@trappestarrgaming3422]

this just proves that 1 man dosent make a whole team a winner. Teams that dont have atleast decent players around the superstar cant really compete all the time

[@GreenGamer69]

True

[@evanwilliams3821]

Another asterisk for Jordan is that in either the 97 or 98 wcf the rockets were about to beat the jazz and go to the finals but in the closing seconds of game 7 Karl Malone illegally held drexler away from Stockton which allowed Stockton to make a wide open shot, but if Karl Malone got called for the hold then the rockets might have gone to the finals and beat the bulls

[@Tizoxic94]

The Jazz won in game 6, not 7, so thats a huge if

[@scottb3034]

I still like the Bulls chances in 1997 with homecourt, rest and no food poisoning for Jordan. The weakness at PG and SF for the Rockets would have become glaring.

[@MarkoRabin]

an if story is not an asterisk to his name

[@krump743]

Try again mate thats a pathetic argument. Considering during that era of physicality those plays were often let go.

[@trevonricks5975]

How’s that a asterisk for Jordan because the Rockets couldn’t get the Job done? So Kobehas a asterisk Lebron got beat by Dwight Howard and the Magic?

[@SimonaSappia]

For Magic, it isn't about how many passes he has but the quality of those passes

[@joebauers3746]

You don't get two assists just because you looked the other way while you passed.

[@bricefleckenstein9666]

Bird could argue the point there - but he wasn't a point guard so didn't get as many chances.

[@ceedripster2405]

Bro really acted like Curry wasn’t the main reason he won all his rings and he forgot to talk about the Celtics finals and KD and Curry warriors was nice but come on now KD was just cooking Lebron 1v1 the whole series for both finals while Curry got doubled and triple team

[@brianelam9297]

This is a reminder that all players have weaknesses. But I still believe Jordan is the goat. He accomplished way more in fewer seasons than anyone else.

[@ssnago]

Magic? 5 rings 9 seasons

[@SICKOCL]

Jordan isn't the goat

[@kauffamn1016]

@@SICKOCL he is , your n the minority my boy .

[@lacolem1]

Russell won almost twice as many rings in roughly the same span. They both played with HoF players and coach.

[@davidreese2709]

Like you said "You believe" Jordan is the GOAT cause I Don't he couldn't guard a grape & the refs weren't allowed to call fouls on him so that shows you that the games were fixed when he went to play baseball he was suspended cause he got caught in a federal sting and they wanted him in prison but the NBA paid the Feds millions to keep him out of prison & the Feds wanted him suspended how the hell is that a GOAT??

[@TheTonytone77]

I like how he used westbrook best peak season stats vs magics total career average stats

[@23Dataminer]

Are you really comparing Jordan's defeats by Larry and Megic? That he was young. For God's sake, look at the composition of the teams in question? Are you kidding me? You're comparing Jordan based on the losses of his then absolutely mediocre Bulls (who didn't even make the playoffs for 3 years before Jordan arrived) to one of the best teams ever with the 80's Celtics and Lakers? Oh, come on. Rather, imagine what stats Jordan would have if he played under the current rules, in the current league and opponents in his prime. Those would just be numbers. But you must be joking with this video.

[@luddite4change449]

Prime Jordan would be putting up over 40 a night, just by stepping back 2 feet taking more than his 1.9 three per game career average.

[@Senerian]

Jordan is the GOAT. There is no other and no other comparison. ^6 rings, All with the same team/organization, Made his team mates better, Worked as a team to achieve, Backed up everything thing he ever said on the court. Did not lay out sick and played through things like the flue. Tough, no real time out or missing for injuries... Larry Bird would be second

[@karyldavis9017]

Thank you. I swear so many people overrated LeBron because of the scoring record. LeBron is amazing but MJ is better because he is kinda scary

[@nozers]

⁠@@karyldavis9017what a stupid comment 😂

[@MuRpHyKn0t]

Apparently someone never saw Stockton play. He might or might not be the greatest passer in NBA history, but he is always in the conversation. Everyone in the building knew where he was going to pass the ball (to Malone) yet he kept getting it there

[@krump743]

Yes everybody in the building knew Malone was getting the ball. Even Jordan knew it in game 6 of 98 which lead to Jordan's steal... game winner with a lay up before that play in the last 43 seconds of the game.

[@MuRpHyKn0t]

@@krump743 What a shock that the greatest player of the generation (and former Defensive Player of the Year) managed to stop Stockton on an occasion. Absolutely inconceivable. 🙄

[@krump743]

@@MuRpHyKn0t Jordan never stopped Stockton tho Stockton set the cross screen on rodman..... 🙄 🤡

[@kennysingletary4490]

Yep, there have been nine 1000 assist seasons in NBA history and John Stockton has 7 of them.

[@aktionpacc964]

I still don't get why ppl don't realize Shaq only got finals MVP was because he played Eastern teams without any Centers. Kobe guarded the best player on the court night after night and really carried Shaq through the playoffs.

[@Bigedub101]

Exactly and everyobd knows damn well the East never had a damn big man threat at all. 2001-2002 WC Playoffs, Kobe was just as good as Shaq or outperformed him especially especially when Shaq fouls out

[@HugoSoup57]

Shaq and Kobe were 1A and 1B in every playoffs except for 2000 where Shaq clearly was the best player on the Lakers. He should’ve been one of the 1st unanimous MVPs in NBA history.

[@jimlee7275]

You sounding like Skip Bayless with the LeBron one 😂😂. #GOATJames

[@gapos8212]

Yes. Such a LeBron hater. But i love this guy

[@muizmin]

Lebron segment legit the longest 😭

[@jimlee7275]

@@muizmin he's a MJ guy. With the MJ segment he actually puts down and then defends Jordan at the same time 😂😂.

[@jwolfman665]

Nah. I swear I heard Skip say that shit verbatim

[@toddclark6862]

Very weak case against Jordan. Sure expansion might have helped his team get 72 wins but his Bulls beat some very strong teams in the finals (esp '93 Suns and '97 & '98 Jazz; '96 Sonics won 64 games)). And Magic was 31 years old and still dominant when MJ beat him in the '91 finals (it was Worthy's leg injury that allowed the Bulls win so easily, not Magic being past his prime.)

[@Photoshop729]

MJ mentally destroyed the 2 time champ Pistons when he beat them to reach his first finals. LeBrons Heat were mentally destroyed by the Spurs and broke up, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers were destroyed by the pistons and broke up. MJ was the GOAT mindset. The others were simply amazing athletes with the exception perhaps of Russel and Bird also having the killer instinct.

[@BonsuTheTiger]

these are a lot of asterisks but every all-time great player needs a great team, or a good team, to get a chance to win a title of course because basketball is a team sport of course keep up the good work bro loving the videos as always

[@ddinfant679]

They also need a good coach.

[@BonsuTheTiger]

@@ddinfant679 correct

[@GMAMEC]

Yeah, the asterisks are a bit troubling. A successful team requires great players. The poster diminishes their greatness.

[@tmrevenge]

Great vid pal. Absolutely we can always say every goat challenger is unworthy. You should do another one of this

[@ShadowWhispersStories]

Notice how he didn’t say MJ wasn’t the goat?

[@someone7045]

For the Jordan one when you talked about how good scottie was, he was with Drexler and Hakeem at the end of his career so no wonder he had such a good record without Jordan

[@ThingSomeRandom]

Drexler retired after the 1998 season so Pippen never played with him bud, try again. Barkley was on that Houston team as was Hakeem, but that was for one 50-game season. Most of Pippen’s career post-Chicago was with Portland.

[@krump743]

​@@ThingSomeRandom that Portland team were perennial contenders and lost to the lakers in game 7.

[@zenithzeitgeist7489]

Pippen says Mike warned him about Barkley. kzbin.info/www/bejne/naOnqH6HZ5maoNU

[@23Dataminer]

Exactly. In addition, when he was in the Bulls 94 and 95 without Jordan, he had practically the entire rest of the winning team at his disposal. In contrast, Jordan started in the completely below-average Bulls, practically without a proper teammate, and the coach at the time also cannot be compared to Phil.

[@brettreason484]

Pippen never did squat this video is ridiculous the ONLY knock on Jordan was he was a shite teammate. He didn’t even mention that.

[@CS-dg4dn]

Bill Russell made his teammates Allstars. Leagues weren't diluted with more teams. That's why we have so many bottom feeders.

[@Insanitydesigns]

Rebound Rewind uploaded, a blessing to my day

[@luisrazi]

MJ increased his efficiency and numbers in the playoffs s and Finals Against the best teams. Meaning he was great no matter if they where bad competition.

[@jonm7888]

@Ken D he set the playoff scoring record.

[@KashTheTorontoMan]

Also set the record sealed with an L for the series boss 😴

[@jonm7888]

@@KashTheTorontoMan Celtics had the better team. You can't blame Jordan for that.

[@Jason5818UI]

@Banned Kash you don't win championships by yourself...but individually MJ was a beast since day one

[@TheHuskyK9]

@Naija Hunt So you use the rookie excuse for when he lost yet not when he set the playoff scoring record? Being a bit biased here

[@DKHighlights491]

The unique mistake of wilt was havent played in the internet era

[@railenherman6482]

The Warriors weren’t gonna win with Draymond in Game 5 anyway. Lebron got another 41 in Game 6 with Draymond playing in that one. I’d argue the bigger asterisk is the Andrew Bogut injury.

[@lynchone117]

And we all found out after the series was over that Steph Curry had a Strain ACL. In that Finals.

[@railenherman6482]

@@lynchone117 He was still healthy enough to play and had 3 games to close it out. Not a strong enough asterisk for me.

[@lynchone117]

@@railenherman6482 that your opinion, Steph made no excuses, if it was up to him no one would have known, I just want facts to be known, because everybody and their momma knows that Curry can take K. Love off the dribble!

[@CaptainCreampie69]

It is Jordan for sure. He played in the most difficult and star studded era. Every team except maybe the Vancouver Grizzlies had at least one super star. The Toronto Raptors had TMAC and Vince Carter, Kings had Chris Webber. I don’t think there is a team from 1990-2003 that you could say didn’t have a superstar. The league was weak before because the Celtics and Lakers were so stacked and it has been a trash league since about 2015 with the complete lack of physicality and defense. I have always said the East has been weak too. Ever since I can remember even in the 90s it was the Bulls+1 and maybe 2 other teams. The west has always been the more competitive side. This is why playoffs should be seeded as a league and not West/East. You would see the best competition. Nobody wants to see a losing record team go to the playoffs other than their supporters. Casuals watch sports to watch competition not teams get steamrolled/swept.

[@ssnago]

Most difficult era? Imagine all those stars on on team.

[@SICKOCL]

​@@ssnagoJordan is not the GOAT!

[@Dutchvanderlinde3666]

@@SICKOCLwho is the goat

[@theungreatkahli]

@@Dutchvanderlinde3666Kareem

[@sir_sack]

The 90s the most difficult era? Nice joke

[@zxcvfr4321]

1 of the best videos I've seen, but what a serious disrespect to Timmy

[@Zett76]

MJ and the claim that there were a lot of bad teams in the NBA, during the 90s ("a top-heavy league"): Well, yes, but then... why did MJ always IMPROVE his stats, come playoff-time? Hm...

[@HugoSoup57]

Also, for Jordan detractors who say the 90’s were a “watered down expansion era league”, why did MJ put up individually better stats in the mid to late 80’s than he did in the 90’s with a worse supporting cast? He had Pippen in his first few seasons before he became a star in 1990-1991 and Phil Jackson became the head coach in 1989. Before that, Orlando Woolridge and Dan Carzine were his best help. For goodness, the Celtics and Pistons had stacked teams with multiple All-Stars in their primes. The Lakers had a superteam as well, but they were in the West. And Jordan still has the highest scoring playoff game dropping 63 points on the 67-15 Celtics with 5 prime HOFers who also had the #1 ranked defense that year with no help. Folks who bring up how Jordan didn’t win a whole lot earlier in his career omit the context that Jordan also started his career with a terrible supporting cast and that LeBron MISSED the playoffs his first two seasons, in a much weaker East. LeBron carrying a weak Cavs team is still impressive, but there should be no denying that he benefitted by playing in a weaker Eastern conference for a lot of his career.

[@Jsinista]

Thank you for acknowledging that bosh is a real life velociraptor 😂

[@Lippeyman23]

Bron wasn't supposed to win that finals against the spurs anyway the spurs were favored to win the series. The so called "baby thunder" that team was better than lebrons heat!

[@mjsup1]

Like the video Im a Jordan fan of course and have no problem with any of those criticisms they're fun and subjective as all to of the criticisms of all the Goat's. I would like to add one of the main reasons for the expansions was MJ, very promotable and liked so in a way his popularity kinda paved his way to Greatness. 😊

[@qdontae6]

No all his criticisms were dumb n lacked context tbh I’m bout to light his ass up all over these comments lol

[@Tenchi707]

@@qdontae6 he went off on LeBron way harder despite the fact that overall Bron is a better player

[@Tenchi707]

They promoted him so so hard

[@mjsup1]

@@Tenchi707 Not anymore than any other star, you can say Nike, Gatorade, Hanes, but they invested in something they saw could sell their products. And a lot of athletes had there promo's as well, Barkley vs Godzilla Nike adds, Magic and Bird had a Converse commercial, all these guys had deals and all the NBA videos I recall had several all the NBA stars in them, Superstars of the NBA, Dazzling Dunks Basketball bloopers, Below the rim which didn't even feature MJ, NBA Jam, Michael had his own Video but so did Magic. So the NBA didn't promote Michael any more than they did any body else it's the fact that people wanted to see him, he was exciting every regular season game had playoff intensity because of MJs competitiveness. You can promote who you want doesn't mean their going to achieve great things, Grant Hill Dinks Sprite!

[@TheFrostyMan21]

@@Tenchi707 debatable

[@julius-lamaryehudah-yakout1602]

Jordan was literally getting flagrant fouled on every play vs bad boys and you can argue that Jordan was the reason why Scottie game go to the level of play it did. Orlando shaq with timmy was no joke. Scottie didnt have a team full of crackheads when he did is playoff run, and jordan had to deal with carrying crackheads to the playoff

[@bob8583]

where's the problem about lbj beating okc in finals ? they're western champions what's the point of calling them "baby thunder" this one is so dumb

[@karkeris]

I always considered Hakeem to be the most underrated superstar as he never gets mentioned in GOAT debate.

[@papadoc331]

Thete isnt qn argument

[@gqprince2]

@@papadoc331 he's prolly the best two way player ever.

[@papadoc331]

@@gqprince2 he still doesnt have an argument for goat. Also what does being the bets 2 way player ever even mean?

[@gqprince2]

@@papadoc331 his total contribution on offense and defense are possibly higher than any other player.

[@papadoc331]

@@gqprince2 so hes the most impactful ever? That would make him the best which you know isnt true

[@hallnall1667]

IMO, it's always a bad idea to compare players of different eras in any sport. Leagues change over time and so do the games themselves.

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

You forgot something extremely important with kobe. He was GIFTED two rings by the refs against both the kings and the blazers. That first threepeat should have never happened. Also the blazers were definitely not weak competition for MJ. The real asterisk there is had the blazers gotten sabonis when they were supposed to, MJ's legacy would look DRASTICALLY different.

[@astroboy9005]

your point about bird is easliy counterable. Larry bird suffered back injuries and couldn't play at max potential at the end of his career. That why his all time stats are so low

[@astroboy9005]

@@secoTheSonicFan yeah i know that is the whole point of the video but i just wanted to counter the larry one tho

[@pcs54]

@@astroboy9005 his all time stats arent even low theyre among the best. Bird got 24-10-6 , lebron has 25-7-7. Love has 17-10-2 so i dont know what the point of the comparison to one love season was.

[@christiansoldier77]

Saying Piipen had a great record without Jordan than Jordan without Pippen ignores the fact that Pippen had way more help on his teams than Jordan did

[@violabeaumont3758]

Correct. But this is not me saying who is and isn't the GOAT, just for argument purposes. Lebron took a team to the NBA finals and Conference Championship in back to back years, then left and that team won 13 games and drafted Kyrie Irving. Jordan won three rings with the Bulls and then Retired. The Bulls won 55 games and made it to the Conference Finals without him, and nearly made the Finals again in a tough series with the Knicks. Pippen in fact does not get enough share of the Credit for those 6 rings that Jordan lovers give solely to Jordan.

[@christiansoldier77]

@@violabeaumont3758 The bulls didnt make it to the Conference finals They made it to the second round. When Lebron left the Cavs he wasnt the only one to leave the Cavs the coach left and a number of player left. The Miami heat made the playoffs after lebron left so context is key

[@violabeaumont3758]

@@christiansoldier77 The Heat did not make the playoffs the following year. They won 37 games the following season. They made it back the following year however. As for the Cavaliers turnover. The entire core of the team remained outside of Lebron and an old and out of shape Shaq, who simply retired. They went from a playoff team to worst in the league with those two gone.

[@violabeaumont3758]

@Extinguish Idiot's I agree, but if you talk to Jordan STAN's they will act like he beat teams that were overall better than the Bulls roster, when in reality that Bulls team was stacked for 7-8 years. Lebron certainly did not win a ring until he got on a championship caliber squad also.

[@nolimitscoasterguy4813]

In defense of Jordan, I don’t really care about rings a lot because of the points he brought up, such as weak competition, but Jordan stats and the ways he can control the court can’t be denied

[@AGHathaway]

Bill Russel wasn't a 2-way player. He was pretty much mainly a defender and rebounder. He benefitted from a system that catered to dynasties (no free agents in his era). Imagine if the Warriors played in an era where there were no free agents and they kept Durant for 11 years...

[@BoosterGoldEarth6]

All facts. Bill Russell was the perfect fit for the Celtics. Before him they were a high powered offense who perennial contenders. They were lacking interior defense and great rebounding. That were Russell came into play. Their offense dipped to mid but their defense shot to number one. If Russell had to be catalyst of a offense for the entire season. He would of been exposed. Not to mention no 3p shot to neutralize his team impact. Nor was the offensive players allow to bulldozer their defenders. Made his job easier

[@Igoruhandchu]

A “system that catered to dynasties” lol ok

[@SabakuGarax]

Imagine, if GSW would be even bigger allstar pack like Steph, KD, Giannis, Wiggins , and Green. If they would stay healthy, i think, they would beat winning record in one season propably xD. Average 130+ pts per game

[@crushedscouter9522]

lol this comment is 100% false

[@BoosterGoldEarth6]

@@crushedscouter9522 how so

[@Buccaneer_NFL]

I say pippen was better without jordan because he was already at his greatest powers while jordan without pippen, he was very young or very old

[@rockerrock328]

Duncan is in that goat category. The main arguement about him is that his game was boring. He was one of the greatest 2way players ever.

[@edricgonzalez2235]

The one thing that people forget about Kobe is that he went to three straight finals without Shaq and winning two straight without him. Shaq only managed to win one ring without Kobe. Shaq was the leader of the three-peat Lakers but saying that Kobe was carried by Shaq is pure nonsense. They both needed each other to win those championships.

[@GreenGamer69]

Kobe couldn't win in his best years also he only made 2 straight finals he couldn't do it by himself he needed all-nba player pau gasol to win his 4th and 5th ring

[@edricgonzalez2235]

​​@@GreenGamer69ou expect Kobe to win anything with Smush and Kwame? Lebron had Wade and Bosh for four years and ended up losing two NBA Finals.

[@drast1ck949]

Alternate Title: “Explaining Why There Is No Goat In The NBA”

[@Braidlan]

Never talked about the goat Tim Duncan

[@ReboundRewind]

Maybe Tim is the Goat then 👀

[@blackjesus6433]

@@ReboundRewind He never repeated and two guys on his team won FMVP. 🙏🏾

[@muizmin]

Hakeem 👀

[@adamprice3466]

People rarely include Tim in goat discussions (which they should)

[@sosamanotf642]

@@adamprice3466 because he’s nowhere the GOAT.

[@leronhilton8084]

For Kobe that Shaq argument not valid for a couple of reasons. 1st Kobe put up exactly the same stats without shaq as he did with him hence retiring both jerseys. 2nd, as good as Shaq was he didn’t win anything until he got Kobe and he played with some really good guards. Lastly, Kobe won damn near as much titles without shaq as he did with him so the argument of shaq making Kobe or carrying him is wild incorrect

[@jacoblee5796]

Kobe has never lead a championship team in win-shares during the regular season or the finals.

[@invidofinp1828]

Wilt and Russel is the prime example of no I in team. Bill had a great team around him while Lakers had Wilt trying to beat everyone on his own.

[@bricefleckenstein9666]

Wilt had turned into a team player by the time he joined the Lakers. ESPECIALLY under Sharman - who owned more rings than Wilt did - but he started the transition under Alex Hannum on the 76ers (Alex ALSO had more rings at the time than Wilt did, AND was the only coach to beat the Russell-era Celtics in a Finals).

[@Colts657]

Conclusion: Scottie Pippen is the goat

[@PresterAdams]

yeah on all the players you just go "this sucked about them and this was bad" and on jordan you had to resolve to "what if" "what could" ... sounds like a goat to me

[@DuongLe-mj9lg]

Great and entertaining video! The only thing I disagree about is comparing players' across different eras. They have different offensive/defensive mindsets and strategies so I don't think it's fair to do so. Although I know this video is just for fun tho so screw it!

[@theungreatkahli]

Agreed

[@bread6085]

Are we really gonna forget how Lebron had 16 in the quarter BEFORE ray Allen’s shot. The only blemish on Lebrons career is 2011…

[@THEJWG]

I think we can all agree that Brian Scalabrine is far more superior and skilled than anyone on this list 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Landermill]

I hope he does Tim Duncan next because he’s been way too nice to him

[@jfearless3420]

The problem is using stats and accolades alone. I think of those as prerequisites but ultimately you have to go by the "eye test." It is a combination of accolades and stats plus who looks like they are the Greatest player. This is why I put Jordan as the GOAT.

[@HsiRichBaby]

This is why I put LeBron as the GOAT.

[@HsiRichBaby]

And sorry sht stain don’t nobody cares about Jordan or his bullsht fans. Fwi, yea and y’all can keep dying each month and every year over his shoe but we will still be alive over here rockin LeBron James 👇🏾

[@jfearless3420]

@@HsiRichBaby didnt he just get swept?

[@HsiRichBaby]

@@jfearless3420he have more conference championships. he basically double Jordan finals appearances. And has 4 rings? Didn’t Jordan get sweep 3 times in the first round to LeBrons zero. Jordan pityful just like his booty ass fans

[@HsiRichBaby]

@@jfearless3420 Hold that L

[@chopincj7530]

almost all of these are so stupid, "your ring doesn't count if you aren't the only good player on your team" and the whole "michael jordan never played a bad game" attitude are so useless. how often is the team that wins an nba championship not one with at least two star players (if not way more)?

[@amratashbaghel6628]

You didnt consider the leagues avg possessions per game, when wilt chimberlain scored his 100 point game and avg 50 points per game the league had an avg possession per game of around 120-130 while during jordan's era the avg possessions per game was around 80 - 90

[@bricefleckenstein9666]

And after adjusting for that, Wilt STILL owns 4 entries on the all-time Top 10 scoring seasons - instead of 5 - and Jordan barely adds a second entry to his existing entry. Wilt's 6'th place DOES drop to 12'th though, near as I have it figured - but he STILL owns 3 of the Top 4.

[@sir_sack]

those stats are wrong

[@ibejammin5993]

Love how he goes super hard on bron and jus barely goes hard at mj. Shits nasty i smell the bias. Should’ve brought up that after he left in 93, the bulls lost only 2 less games with mj and had 3 all stars. Mj fans dont wanna bring that up that team was a damn near superteam 😂😂

[@bread6085]

And the fact that mj was bounced out of the playoffs many times before he started to win. People act like his career was only 6 years. 😂

[@ibejammin5993]

@@bread6085 fr lets not talk about the fact that larry bird is 6-0 vs mj in the playoffs. He has no clue what that feels like to lose to mj. He was reliant on a good team

[@bread6085]

@@ibejammin5993 exactly. People forget there’s something called CONTEXT when looking at a player. Lebron dident lose those finals cause he “choked” he lost because he was playing the best damn teams of all time